Coaching Launch
carolinetu
tidal Thames, so must have a wash certificate. The choice seems to be
betwen the Eton launch, which by all accounts is pretty unstable and
not very manouevrable, and the yellow catamaran which only
accommodates one person and creates rather too much wash. There must
be some other boats out there - what do other clubs use?
Thanks
Caroline
Teaplant
> be some other boats out there - what do other clubs use?
>
in the absence of any other offers....
I think the schools tend to use home-built (ie by their full-time
boatmen) catamaran launches. Usually with hulls made from fibreglass
moulds (often taken from a cropped pair/double) with a marine-ply box
astride. Clubs seem to use launches less (lot more uncoached crews
and leisure paddlers I guess) and then they tend to buy them in. I
know one thing - you hardly ever see two the same! The Reading
Bluecoat boatman used to run a little business making some nice ones.
He may still do.
As a compromise, you could buy the hulls (eg a laser dart 16 basic
cat) and bolt your own cockpit on the top.
Catamaran manouevrable? Never seen one like that...
teaplant.
Sarah F
http://www.burgashell.co.uk/page.php?id=74
Burgashell make one. I've been coached from one and they do produced
limited wash (another club training on the same bit of river was using
one of those hideous yellow things and we used to run and hide when we
saw them coming). I think Leander have one of them too. They're not
too bad to steer, I've not driven one myself, but have been a
passenger when the launch was being turned round and steered into the
bank etc.
Hope that helps,
Sarah
Peter Ford
I'd never realised that, how much difference would there be to buy
dart 18s or something? the crazy wash from those things looks as if it
comes from the fact the hulls are so short.
Peter
Carl Douglas
Yup.
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
Teaplant
> > comes from the fact the hulls are so short.
>
> > Peter
>
> Yup.
>
> Carl
On another, rather pleasing thought. Just imagine if Carl Douglas made
catamaran launches... awesome.
teaplant.
Phil
Couple of CDX hulls, some planks, bungees and two aerofins?
Sarah F
Wouldn't it be faster than the crew though? ;)
Teaplant
> Couple of CDX hulls, some planks, bungees and two aerofins?
waterbottle (megaphone?) holder.
Come on Carl - just build a prototype and then even if you don't sell
any, I would pay to have a ride in it..
teaplant.
John Mulholland
>>
>> I'd never realised that, how much difference would there be to buy
>> dart 18s or something? the crazy wash from those things looks as if it
>> comes from the fact the hulls are so short.
>>
>> Peter
>
> Yup.
>
> Carl
>
Carl, that must be your shortest answer ever!
Still, it gives you more time to build my boat.
--
John Mulholland
carolinetu
I see that Wintech also make a Cat, but it doesn't appear to be
available in the UK. Pity, it looks good. The Burgashell one is
quite expensive, but I'll check it out anyway.
I'm sure if Carl made one it would be perfect, but I doubt whether we
could afford it......
Caroline
J Flory
kda...@kidare.com
carolinetu
I'm always wary of adverts which say "great condition for year". You
could say the same about me, but I'm unlikely to get a job as a top
model!
Caroline
donal...@gmail.com
donal...@gmail.com
Carl Douglas
> http://www.zapcats.com/minime.htm
Wonderful! 3 small kids & dad, with not a PFD between them! In a boat
which is also being shown to have aerobatic tendencies.
Now imagine that same boat under the nonchalant control of the guy who,
in that infamous photo, steers past scullers with the cheeks of his arse
(who was he?). No, it doesn't make an attractive prospect.
IMHO launches do not need high power:weight ratios & spectacular
performance potential. They need stability, user-friendliness, carrying
capacity, low wash-making & good fuel economy.
Cheers -
donal...@gmail.com
Respectfully I suggest that the performance and aerobatic tendencies
possible at the limit are more down to the engine size.
I was thinking of a 6 hp or 9hp engine rather than the recommended
15hp or 30hp.
Donal
On 25 Jan, 11:24, Carl Douglas <c...@carldouglas.co.uk> wrote:
> donal.ca...@gmail.com wrote:
> >http://www.zapcats.com/minime.htm
>
> Wonderful! 3 small kids & dad, with not a PFD between them! In a boat
> which is also being shown to have aerobatic tendencies.
>
> Now imagine that same boat under the nonchalant control of the guy who,
> in that infamous photo, steers past scullers with the cheeks of his arse
> (who was he?). No, it doesn't make an attractive prospect.
>
> IMHO launches do not need high power:weight ratios & spectacular
> performance potential. They need stability, user-friendliness, carrying
> capacity, low wash-making & good fuel economy.
>
> Cheers -
> Carl
> --
> Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
> Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
> Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
> Email: c...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
> URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk(boats) &www.aerowing.co.uk(riggers)
Richard Packer
>Carl
>
>Respectfully I suggest that the performance and aerobatic tendencies
>possible at the limit are more down to the engine size.
>
>I was thinking of a 6 hp or 9hp engine rather than the recommended
>15hp or 30hp.
Old Windsor Lifeguards have a couple of Zapcats and they have been
used very successfully on the up-river Thames and Dorney as safety
boats (making their first appearance at Dorney at the 2005 World Cup).
I wouldn't want to coach from one though. You're very low on the
water, and with its largely open transom and low bow you should expect
to get wet on board. Not such a problem during the summer, but
unpleasant in the winter!
For coaching, I still think it's hard to beat properly designed
catamarans.
donal...@gmail.com
On the same theme as the small inflateable cat this looks like it may
fulfill rescue without necessarily creating too much wash. Donal
On Jan 25, 4:10 pm, Richard Packer <use...@rjSURNAME.org.yookay>
wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 03:54:09 -0800 (PST), "donal.ca...@gmail.com"
donal...@gmail.com
On Jan 27, 2:14 pm, "donal.ca...@gmail.com" <donal.ca...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > catamarans.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Edgar
<donal...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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http://www.ribs4sale.com/details.php?id=1084
On the same theme as the small inflateable cat this looks like it may
fulfill rescue without necessarily creating too much wash. Donal
The picture shows it making very considerable wash.
The problem arises from the desire to make the same boat suitable for
coaching and also for rescue purposes.
Coaching boats need speed with low wash at all times but only really need
to carry two persons and for this a cat is surely the best solution.
Separate the rescue function, and it is clear that for rescue you need a
stable boat with enough space for rescuers and a rescued crew and must be
prepared to accept that it will make quite a bit of wash when proceeding to
a casualty.
Unfortunately most clubs could not afford, nor could many of them find space
to store, two boats, and as a result of the inevitable compromise the
rescue function seems always to be the one that suffers, since the coaching
boat is needed all the time whereas the rescue boat is only needed
occasionally.
J Flory
> The problem arises from the desire to make the same boat suitable for
> coaching and also for rescue purposes.
> Coaching boats need speed with low wash at all times but only really need
> to carry two persons and for this a cat is surely the best solution.
> Separate the rescue function, and it is clear that for rescue you need a
> stable boat with enough space for rescuers and a rescued crew and must be
> prepared to accept that it will make quite a bit of wash when proceeding to
> a casualty.
> Unfortunately most clubs could not afford, nor could many of them find space
> to store, two boats, and as a result of the inevitable compromise the
> rescue function seems always to be the one that suffers, since the coaching
> boat is needed all the time whereas the rescue boat is only needed
> occasionally.
Edgar
"J Flory" <john....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:780c610f-263d-481d...@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.stillwaterdesign.com/pages/25XL.html
Well, that seems to have potential to be more useful than most tinfish,RIB's
etc. that I have seen so far.
kda...@kidare.com
> <donal.ca...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:04f28196-32f0-4d3c...@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...http://www.ribs4sale.com/details.php?id=1084
I've mentioned this before, but could the rescue function not be
achieved via some sort of self-inflating towable raft which can be
stored on the cat and quick-deployed if rescue is required. I have in
mind something like the towable "bananas" you see at the beach
resorts. No need to compromise the low-wash coaching function then.
Kit
Jonny
> I've mentioned this before, but could the rescue function not be
> achieved via some sort of self-inflating towable raft which can be
> stored on the cat and quick-deployed if rescue is required. I have in
> mind something like the towable "bananas" you see at the beach
> resorts. No need to compromise the low-wash coaching function then.
> Kit
There will be dozens of SOLAS life rafts available that come in those
neat white containers (as you see on ships and yachts) that would hold
a crew in an emergency, be towable by a low-wake coaching cat and be
small enough to store with the boat. Price might be the only hiccup
for most clubs.
Carl Douglas
It would seem that the claimed performance of the Stillwater 18ft meets
both the low-wash coaching & the crew-rescue functions, with no add-ons
or compromises needed.
Ribs & other inflatables are fundamentally sports boats, even when
equipped with small engines. They are meant to plane, are frisky, can
go unnecessarily fast & most make lots of wash at transitional speeds -
none of which are desirable in a coaching launch with a rescue function.
Actually, we need to get real about coaching launches. Especially on
crowded waters.
Rowing shells make little wash, but just 1 small launch, even with <10hp
propelling it, can completely wreck what had been glassy smooth water.
Furthermore, launches are real hazards to the navigation of other crews
since they seem to take up more space than the crews they coach. If
every crew afloat on an over-populated stretch has its own attendant
wash-making launch (which fortunately they don't, it just seems that
way!) then the supposed coaching benefits to the each crew are partly
over-ridden by the fouled up water, the aggro over who is using whose
water, the sheer bad manners of a small proportion of self-important
launch jockeys & the increased hazard that all of this brings.
Which raises the vexed question of how safely & considerately can
someone, supposedly watching, thinking about & coaching a crew, also
drive a launch?
So, if we do have launches, then let them be smooth, stable, low-wash
machines, of relatively low power & low weight (i.e. efficient) & good
carrying capacity (in case they are needed for rescue), with high
seating positions &, preferably, with separate driver & coach.
Another thought: how about some of the money spent on environmentally
unhelpful launches going instead into a fund to improve the conditions
of towpaths? Bikes make no wash & will go for miles on 1 good breakfast.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
donal...@gmail.com
visibility from towpath due to numberous trees. Gates and winter mud
also interfere. I anticipate occasional coaching early in the morning
(only) when there are no other river users around for specific crews
just before events. Currently most of the time coaching is done from
inside the boat or from sculling boats.
Other than that the reason for a launch is when dealing with beginners
and wanting to be able to get to them quickly if they fall in. So a
rubber duck is probably best though the ones that allow planing do
look attractive though I guess that the speed of them planing will be
somewhat faster than that of a rowing boat hence of limited
practicable help.
It would be nice though to have a bit of a compromise. Incidentally
the still water design though fine for a big lake I suspect would be
pants on a little twisty river like the avon with limited space for
turning. Also you would need it to be stored at a dock rather than
humped in and out of a club.
Donal
On 28 Jan, 11:35, Carl Douglas <c...@carldouglas.co.uk> wrote:
> Email: c...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
> URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk(boats) &www.aerowing.co.uk(riggers)- Hide quoted text -
J Flory
> It would seem that the claimed performance of the Stillwater 18ft meets
> both the low-wash coaching & the crew-rescue functions, with no add-ons
> or compromises needed.
Whoa!! I've been coached from and have driven the 18 Solo, the 26C,
and the 26XL. The 18 Solo is a handy little thing but IMO too small
for rescue purposes unless only one or two people are to be fished
from the water. It's definitely tippier than the larger cats because
it's narrower. Its smaller size might be an advantage on narrow
rivers, however.
For rescue purposes while coaching 8's the 26XL would definitely be
better than the 18 Solo. 26C is also nice, maybe less wake than the
26XL but less deck space for rescuees. I have no experience with the
Newick 32 other than maybe seeing one go by.
The wake from the cats obviously depends on how fast they are being
driven but is certainly far less than that from a tin fish (there are
some of these on the Charles), RBI (the club where I live has these),
or any typical power boat. That said, at rowing speeds there is a
small swell coming off the stern of a cat that can be annoying if a
coach is working with someone 10-20m ahead of you.
J Flory
wrote:
> Incidentally
> the still water design though fine for a big lake I suspect would be
> pants on a little twisty river like the avon with limited space for
> turning. Also you would need it to be stored at a dock rather than
> humped in and out of a club.
>
> Donal
Hi Donal!
Actually the Stillwaters were developed for the Charles, which is
quite twisty (see the Head of the Charles map at www.hocr.org ), and
they handle the turns very nicely, even with an inexperienced clod
like me at the helm. Most of the launches on the Charles are
Stillwaters. Spinning them around IS a chore, especially the 26 XL.
And yes one wouldn't want to haul a cat in and out of the water every
day.
John
John Mulholland
news:a8de8d12-645d-40b4...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
A life raft that will take the crew of an eight costs about £700, but some
carry more kit (emergency rations etc) than we need. If the demand was
sufficient we might be able to get a rowing-specific life-raft; lower cost
because it would not be designed or equipped to survive in open seas but
would be OK in sheltered waters.
--
John Mulholland
TidewayUmpire
>
> - Show quoted text -
I've tried unsuccessfully to find your earlier mention of this idea.
Seems to be a good one & though I'm sure there are problems that
others might think of [Carl?] I doubt if the impact of them would
render such a device less than useful?
Something like
an inflatable 1 foot diameter 'drain pipe' or rectangular section
about 20 feet long with handles/grips all round.
Secured to the launching craft, possibly stored in the bows of a tin
fish but secured at the stern
Launched by pulling a lanyard something like an old time emergency
pull on the tube
Launching fires the thing out and then inflates it with say 15 seconds
delay to avoid any fouling
Crew can then abandon ship, get to and help each other get to the
'tube', get on/hang on/ whatever [in an emergency the guys in the clag
wont always behave as they might in practice situations] and be towed
to the bank/another craft / out of danger where they will be a lot
safer than in the drink.
Would have come in very handy at last years HoRR around Chiswick Pier!
Is any thing currently in production that might be suitable? otherwise
the price might be a deterrent?.
TidewayUmpire
> URLs: �www.carldouglas.co.uk(boats) &www.aerowing.co.uk(riggers)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Carl says
"Another thought: how about some of the money spent on
environmentally
unhelpful launches going instead into a fund to improve the
conditions
of towpaths? Bikes make no wash & will go for miles on 1 good
breakfast. "
But coaching from a bike does not satisfy the ego! You cant steer a
bike terribly successfully with your bum, either, unless you work for
Billy Smart [and he probably did]
You cant rush round like a demented Fat Controller shouting what
mostly is verbal twin oblate spheroids at all and sundry on beautiful,
quiet, still Sunday mornings from a bike!
You need everyone to know that you are in charge of the hapless sods
in front of you doing thier fiftieth pyramid, and because you are
'following a crew' you can make as much wash as you like and 'Screw
You' to those who complain.
You wont get that sort of adrenaline rush on a bike!!!
Or have I got it wrong?
Carl Douglas
If all eights had, by legal mandate, to be fully buoyant, then in at
least 99 cases out of 100 your rather elaborate scheme would be wholly
unncecessary.
Passive measures which work without intervention - on the KISS principle
- beat heroic interventions hands down.
Mind you, didn't Anatole & his mates do something entertaining with
inflated tubes (disguised as turds IIRC) outside the Houses of
Parliament the other year?
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Pete
> inflated tubes disguised as turds
It's quicker to simply write 'politicians'.
John Mulholland
news:0ff41ae4-00ac-4c07...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 9:10?am, kdav...@kidare.com wrote:
> On 27 Jan, 14:47, "Edgar" <ejc...@REMOVEonline.no> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > <donal.ca...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:04f28196-32f0-4d3c...@v17g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...http://www.ribs4sale.com/details.php?id=1084
> > On the same theme as the small inflateable cat this looks like it may
> > fulfill rescue without necessarily creating too much wash. Donal
>
> > The picture shows it making very considerable wash.
>
> > The problem arises from the desire to make the same boat suitable for
> > coaching and also for rescue purposes.
> > to carry two persons and for this a cat is surely the best solution.
> > stable boat with enough space for rescuers and a rescued crew and must
> > be
> > prepared to accept that it will make quite a bit of wash when proceeding
> > to
> > a casualty.
> > Unfortunately most clubs could not afford, nor could many of them find
> > space
This life raft from the US; non-approved, but should be adequate for the
Thames or the Tyne, should be better than a sausage. If we ordered enough,
we might get a reasonable shipping rate; or maybe there's a UK supplier.
http://www.survivalproductsinc.com/nineman.htm
--
John Mulholland
kda...@kidare.com
I couldn't agree more. Passive safety should always be the first
priority. One would hope that any coaching launch would hardly ever be
called upon to rescue a crew during its lifetime. Which is why I
thought it would be a shame to compromise a low-wash, lightweight,
fuel-efficient launch by giving it rescue capabilities which were to
be used rarely, if ever. With the suggested raft, those capabilities
would not only keep the launch as light & low-wash as possible, but
also be transferable from launch to launch. In principle, it's really
not so dissimilar from a portable lifebelt.
No doubt there are other devils in the details, but I consider the
idea worth raising.
Kit
Rachel Quarrell
[snipt]
>>> Something like
>>> an inflatable 1 foot diameter 'drain pipe' or rectangular section
>>> about 20 feet long with handles/grips all round.
>>> Secured to the launching craft, possibly stored in the bows of a tin
>>> fish but secured at the stern
>>> Launched by pulling a lanyard something like an old time emergency
>>> pull on the tube
>>> Launching fires the thing out and then inflates it with say 15 seconds
>>> delay to avoid any fouling
[snipt]
>>
>> Carl
>
[snipt]>
> No doubt there are other devils in the details, but I consider the
> idea worth raising.
> Kit
What about fitting something like this -
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Banana-Boat-FunTube-Motorboat-Jobe-Waterski-Jetski-new_W0QQitemZ110163910768QQihZ001QQcategoryZ23808QQtrksidZp1723.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem
or more commercially this -
http://www.allinflatables.com/shopping/towables/index.html - or this -
http://www.wetsuitoutlet.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=48&products_id=1218
- with the necessary compressed air system to autoinflate it fast?
The inflation mechanics would no doubt be the difficult bit, but the
general principle - something 10-12 feet long with plenty of handholds -
is pretty simple and already out there. Perhaps contacting the companies
who make these things would be worthwhile?
RQ.
kda...@kidare.com
wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 kdav...@kidare.com wrote:
>
> [snipt]
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> Something like
> >>> an inflatable 1 foot diameter 'drain pipe' or rectangular section
> >>> about 20 feet long with handles/grips all round.
> >>> Secured to the launching craft, possibly stored in the bows of a tin
> >>> fish but secured at the stern
> >>> Launched by pulling a lanyard something like an old time emergency
> >>> pull on the tube
> >>> Launching fires the thing out and then inflates it with say 15 seconds
> >>> delay to avoid any fouling
> [snipt]
>
> >> Carl
>
> [snipt]>
> > No doubt there are other devils in the details, but I consider the
> > idea worth raising.
> > Kit
>
> or more commercially this -http://www.allinflatables.com/shopping/towables/index.html- or this -http://www.wetsuitoutlet.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=48&products_id=...
> - with the necessary compressed air system to autoinflate it fast?
>
> The inflation mechanics would no doubt be the difficult bit, but the
> general principle - something 10-12 feet long with plenty of handholds -
> is pretty simple and already out there. Perhaps contacting the companies
> who make these things would be worthwhile?
>
> RQ.
Some interesting choices!! Problem is I can think of a few oarsmen
who'll be deliberately falling out of their boats just to get a ride.
I did do some research a while ago, and the main issue seems to be
with self-inflation. Once you need this, the price goes up
considerably since it is only really the specialist rescue equipment
that offers this.
<thinking aloud> A possible alternative might just be an already
inflated large rubber ring with plenty of handholds lying across the
hulls of the cat. ie basically a large, multi-person lifebelt. Might
neeed 2 for an 8+ though.
Kit
Carl Douglas
Points well taken, Kit.
The trouble with interventionist safety devices is that, when an eight
sinks, the cause is nearly always that is wasn't fully buoyant in the
first place. Either it filled with water & sank, or it filled enough to
create such bending stresses that the poorly-bonded section joint pulled
out. Full underseat buoyancy would have prevented the former &, by its
uplift largely cancelling out the increased bending stresses due to
otherwise unsupported crew mass, would also have prevented the latter.
To convert an eight or a four to full buoyancy costs peanuts. Any
high-tech solution is evidently rather more expensive. And the
interventionist remedy is available only to those accompanied by launches.
Reverting to launches like the Stillwater 18ft (for which I hold no
special brief, BTW): their website
http://www.stillwaterdesign.com/pages/18Solo.html
shows just such a launch, carrying 11 adults & still with some
freeboard. That's enough for an eight, coach & driver. Now I do know
that overloaded catamarans have stability issues, but these have easy
remedies. Thus I see no reason why such a launch could & should not
have added buoyancy tanks, rising above deck level at each corner.
These would amply resolve the stability problems otherwise arising if
you were to bury a bow while heavily laden.
Yet the trouble with complex non-passive safety measures is that they
are costly, so often not where they're needed, so often unused that they
get neglected, require someone with fully functional spare brain cells
in charge (like not nutting the drowning person with your well-aimed
throw of a life-belt ;) ). And, worst of all, they persuade too many
that, "Oh, we have this super-dooper safety kit so we don't need to
passive safety". But the passive safety is always there, always
working, never takes a day off - & you become unaware of it, so you
won't take it as an excuse to take silly risks.
BTW, if you expect a bunch of cold swimmers, drifting into hypothermia,
to hang onto a towed floating sausage, how do you know they have the
strength left to do so & how do you avoid towing them too fast for the
weakest person to keep their grip?
HTH
donal...@gmail.com
Henning Lippke
> Can anyone recommend a good coaching launch?
We have one of these:
http://www.hitechplast.hu/en/watersport/cat.html
It's named 'micro wave' :-).
Marco.Bo...@gmail.com
size (it would have to carry at least 9 people better is 18 since that
is usually what many coach have to deal with at least here in the USA)
would be easily storable on a small launch.
Also to maintain the right pitch of the wakeless launch you would have
to place it in the center of the boat where usually you want to have
the coaching staff.
I think a "Solo 18" would work for many of the crew club.
http://www.stillwaterdesign.com/pages/18Solo.html
Although I don't know how realistic is for the people in the UK to
import them.
M
Marco.Bo...@gmail.com
one of the guy that build those launches and I had the opportunity to
drive all of them. To be honest I was surprise of the amount of
testing they put into any of those models.
My favorite is the Solo 18 that has the manovrability and it was safe
enough to save my crew (9 women) once we got caught in a storm in the
miami bay. That launch is much more stable than it seems. It feel
tipsy but it's actually design to increase the buoyancy as it sinks
and it's not as easy to tip.
The 26s are a little too hard to turn for my taste and in some of the
places I have been coaching.
The 32 is huge! It's great for regatta and I had the opportunity to
save 2 crews that sank in the Charles so we had 20 people on board
with choppy water and we towed the sinked Pococks back to the BU
boathouse.
It actually turn better than the size would make you think but it's
impossible to use in small rivers.
Anyway I am trying to convince the parents to buy me a couple of Solo
18 for my program.
That should keep them safe :-)
Ciao,
Marco
David Jillings
David. ;-)
<Marco.Bo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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