Any experience with high-visibility clothing for rowers?
Henry Law
yes, but actually we've had more problems with rowers banging into one
another than with the seventy-foot seventy-ton metal things. As the
winter season approaches we are considering the use of high-visibility
jackets (or waistcoats or tabards or whatever) for the bow rower in crew
boats and for single scullers.
Yellow waistcoat-style things are easy to get but none as far as I can
see is intended for rowing , or for any other sport where a close-ish
fit is required (even Godfrey's offering at
http://www.godfrey.co.uk/productviewer.php?selproduct=177 looks as if
it's for marshalling rather than rowing in). I do see JL Rowing in the
US with a range of high-vis kit (see
http://www.jlrowing.com/highvisibility.html ) but I can't imagine that
we either need or would want to import stuff. It's pretty dear too.
Has anyone in the UK got experience of such high-vis waistcoats for
rowing? Better still a recommendation for one to try out.
--
Henry Law Manchester, England
Charles Carroll
I have a friend who went out with someone years ago and was caught in bad
weather. A thick fog just dropped on them like a garage door that had lost
its spring. The water also turned choppy.
According to my friend the fog was so bad that she could barely see the man
she want out with and the water was so choppy it was all she could do to
stay in her shell.
Her rowing partner was a very experienced sculler and still strong for his
age, but he had just started his eighth decade on this planet. When he went
over he couldn't get back in his shell.
Somehow he managed to cling to the hull. My friend never said whether he was
able to fasten his pfd around him.
If memory serves me, a Coast Guard helicopter arrived within about twenty
minutes of the capsize. So a close call had a happy ending.
But the point is that the Coast Guard said they would have never found them
if the man hadn't had a brightly painted yellow boat and hadn't been wearing
a high visibility yellow turtle shell.
Our Club in Sausalito buys a lot of stuff from jlracing. You must have
something similar in the UK or on the Continent. But if you don't, it's
probably worth the money import what you need.
Good luck,
Charles
dw
jerseys are just garish advertising or wanna-be Tour-de-whatever, there are
some that are designed solely for high visibility on the roadway in traffic.
Something like
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_120357_-1_201453_10000_201463
(that link is a USA source, but hopefully you have something like that in
the UK?)
Because of the aerodynamic considerations in cycling, these are very
form-fitting. The only thing out of place on the water would be the funky
pouches on the back.
dw
"Henry Law" <ne...@lawshouse.org> wrote in message
news:BZidnT-3N4Ku5DjX...@giganews.com...
Charles Carroll
I started thinking about money, or the cost of kit as you might say.
I have a friend who flogs old cars around a race track. Among the people in
his Club, CSRG (California Sports Racing Group), there is a saying. "If you
have a ten dollar head, you buy a ten dollar helmut."
I thought it was funny.
Cordially,
Charles
Christopher Anton
> is intended for rowing , or for any other sport where a close-ish fit is
> required (even Godfrey's offering at
> http://www.godfrey.co.uk/productviewer.php?selproduct=177 looks as if it's
> for marshalling rather than rowing in). I do see JL Rowing in the US with
> a range of high-vis kit (see http://www.jlrowing.com/highvisibility.html )
> but I can't imagine that we either need or would want to import stuff.
> It's pretty dear too.
>
> Has anyone in the UK got experience of such high-vis waistcoats for
> rowing? Better still a recommendation for one to try out.
>
they had a club rule that the bow person or scullers had to wear high vis
bibs when on the water at all times.
Phil
the reflective strips (we experimented with reflective tape on riggers/
blades). However, any search/rescue effort using high power torches or
lamps would spot you.
Phil.
Robin Collings
But what little light there is is more likely to make the wearer a bit
more obvious than normal clothing. When it's dark, it's a lot easier
to see a sculler wearing a white t-shirt than a sculler wearing a
black one. I'd be surprised if a bright yellow vest didn't make things
even better.
AFAIK Crewroom import jl kit, they might be able to help
(www.crewroom.biz). Or you could try rock the boat - they have a high-
vis t-shirt quite cheap: http://www.rock-the-boat.co.uk/cat-2-subcat-4-product-645
Rob.
carolinetu
with "Marshal" or "Official" but they may be able to do plain ones for
you. It would be worth giving them a call. http://www.stacyandson.co.uk/
We also have problems with boats hitting each other, mainly because
they are in the wrong place on the river and not looking where they
are going. Hi viz jackets are no substitute for education and common
sense..... And of course nobody should be out in the dark unless they
have lights on the boat and someone to accompany them, preferably in a
launch.
Caroline
Andy McKenzie
yellow high viz cycling top - while not a substitute for lights it
makes a demonstrable difference to the distance at which you register
on another rower's vision towards dusk - a rower in a dark blue top
might be invisible at 500 metres (the boats are so low to the water
their colour is almost irrelevant) whilst in a high viz top they can
easily be seen at that distance. So two scullers might be invisible to
each other one minute before a clash. Now one might hope that they are
looking out more than once a minute, but wearing a light coloured top
essentially costs nothing, and adds some safety.
The one time I had an early evening clash (before switching to high
viz tops) I would swear that the boat I clashed with wasn't there 20
seconds earlier, and I was going really slow, so I must have not seen
them (and vice-versa) at a distance of less than 100 metres, on a
straight stretch of river, a little while before sunset. Fortunately
our blades clashed, but boats and bodies did not.
Andy McKenzie
Tinus
to wear.
http://concept2.nl/shop/shirts/295/veiligheidshemd_polyamide/
pdb
If a cycle lamp/torch was fixed pointing towards Bow's reflective
singlet the lack of light problem would be solved!
My own concern is the use of white lights facing both forward on and
to the stern so that the direction of movement is unclear.
Unfortunately maritime regulations seem to preclude any other lights
for unpowered boats so the risk of collision is not mitigated.
Carl Douglas
I don't think that can be correct.
When maritime lighting regs were introduced I don't think the concept of
fast-moving, up to 17-metre long vessels, weighing up to nearly 1 tonne,
sharply pointed & with up to ~4hp engines, was considered.
IMHO, rowing shells are power boats. They meet all the necessary
criteria, having the continuously available power, the ability to
reverse & to manoeuvre, & the necessary speed to not be helpless in the
path of other vessels.
Furthermore, rowing shells are dimensionally substantial objects, of the
size & direction of which it is very important for other vessels'
masters to be made fully aware. That they are relatively fragile is not
relevant, except that their cargo of up to 9 souls is highly vulnerable
if another vessel does not be able to determine what, where, how long &
how fast they are.
What rowing shells most definitely are not is mere rowing boats - for
which the 360-degree white light is appropriate since a dinghy has to be
treated as a short, slow object - any more than an invalid chair is a
racing car.
It is for these reasons that I consider that all racing shells should be
counted for lighting purposes as powered vessels & as such be required
to show the same lights at night.
I would note that sailboats, whether powered or not, at night must when
sailing show white astern & forward port & starboard lights. How is
this more necessary than it is for rowing shells?
Sure, pedants may wish to argue the toss. But dead pedants who have
just been run down in mid-river are in no position to argue that their
piddling pair of barely visible white lights constituted, under the
regs, an adequate warning of their presence and class to other vessels.
Cheers -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: http://tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
Phil
No arguement that a hi-viz vest is better than none - but you will
find that anything short of a car headlamp on the front won't affect
the reflective strip in the desired way.
Phil.
Stelph
> The principal risk on our water is collision with other boats: barges,
> yes, but actually we've had more problems with rowers banging into one
> another than with the seventy-foot seventy-ton metal things. As the
> winter season approaches we are considering the use of high-visibility
> jackets (or waistcoats or tabards or whatever) for the bow rower in crew
> boats and for single scullers.
>
> Yellow waistcoat-style things are easy to get but none as far as I can
> see is intended for rowing , or for any other sport where a close-ish
> it's for marshalling rather than rowing in). I do see JL Rowing in the
> we either need or would want to import stuff. It's pretty dear too.
>
> Has anyone in the UK got experience of such high-vis waistcoats for
> rowing? Better still a recommendation for one to try out.
>
> --
>
> Henry Law Manchester, England
I actually have one of the JL high visability all in ones! I kind of
bought it by accident, as I had ordered a "lucky dip" all in one from
the US site and had the choice of light or dark. Lets just say It was
a lot lighter than I was expecting! But I have to say it is very good
for sculling in the dark, I tend to stand out very well in the
twilight
As you say JL stock all of these things, so I assume that crewroom
would be happy to provide the same in the UK (otherwise JL USA are
actually happy to send things over here, although its not as good a
deal as it used to be :-( )
Henry Law
And Concept in the UK offer something similar. Thanks for this pointer.
Henry Law
> On 8 Sep, 15:15, pdb <pdblas...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 8 Sep, 10:10, Phil <philip_barton....@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The lighting available on the water is usually too diffuse to light up
>>> the reflective strips (we experimented with reflective tape on riggers/
>>> blades).
>> If a cycle lamp/torch was fixed pointing towards Bow's reflective
>> singlet the lack of light problem would be solved!
>>
>> My own concern is the use of white lights facing both forward on and
>> to the stern so that the direction of movement is unclear.
> No arguement that a hi-viz vest is better than none - but you will
> find that anything short of a car headlamp on the front won't affect
> the reflective strip in the desired way.
Thanks for all the informative posts. But before the thread goes off
too far in the wrong direction (for me, at least) I'm not talking about
_reflective_ stuff for _night_ rowing since canal rules don't allow
navigation at night. We're talking improving the likelihood that a
rower coming the other way in daylight - dull, winter daylight, the kind
with water in it - will be seen.
We occasionally have a local kayaker on our water. She wears a PFD
which is is day-glo yellow and you can see her from Bolton even on a
murky morning. That's the kind of effect I want.
I've ordered one of Di's. I'm sure it will be excellent - everything
she sells is - but the question is whether the more truculent members of
the club would consider wearing it. Also it's a shirt-like object and I
need to see how it would fit in with gilets, splash tops and the like.
I'm thinking that a vest/waistcoat may be better all round, and could be
kept on a peg in the clubhouse for any crew to use, like the coxes' PFDs.
Richard
The problem with a lot of these high-viz jackets and tabards is that
they are loose fitting (even when you get the correct size) and
therefore not a good thing to row or scull in. You can get high-viz t-
shirts, e.g. http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/Products/size_3/HVTSXL.JPG,
which might be worth a look (although that particular supplier only
seems to stock large sizes!).
d...@rock-the-boat.co.uk
> I've ordered one of Di's. I'm sure it will be excellent - everything
> she sells is - but the question is whether the more truculent members of
> the club would consider wearing it. Also it's a shirt-like object and I
> need to see how it would fit in with gilets, splash tops and the like.
> I'm thinking that a vest/waistcoat may be better all round, and could be
> kept on a peg in the clubhouse for any crew to use, like the coxes' PFDs.
> Henry Law Manchester, England
Henry will be the first to try one of the hi-vis t-shirts with
reflective panels which are sold as basic workwear but which, in
discussion with a number of safety-minded folks, we think are worth a
try on the river. However, it is a t-shirt and will need to go on top
of other kit ... so it's not a wonderful solution. There is a huge
supply of hi-vis waistcoats but they may be even more of a problem for
blade handles as they seldom fit snugly. We are introducing a bright
yellow top layer in October which is based on the cycling shirts so
that may be a good one to try ... Henry will have both so perhaps he
will do a compare and contrast of the £6.50 and the £32 versions!
Powerhouse had a hi-vis jacket type thing at one stage, I've not been
back to check whether they still do but worth anyone contacting Garth
to ask.
We've put on our website "wearing this does not confer super human
powers and you still need to keep a good look out and use the right
lights"!
Henry Law
>
> The problem with a lot of these high-viz jackets and tabards is that
> they are loose fitting (even when you get the correct size) and
> therefore not a good thing to row or scull in. You can get high-viz t-
> seems to stock large sizes!).
Yes I agree about the looseness of the waistcoat/jacket/tabard things;
that's my objection to the one that Godfrey sells. T shirts are fine
in the summer (and we'd like to improve visibility in the summer as well
as the winter, especially for evening rowing) and it may be that very
large T shirts -- as you refer to above -- could go over the top of cold
weather gear and not be too loose. Look pretty funny though.
What we need is high-vis splash tops or gilets but a club would need a
range of sizes; and those things are expensive enough as it is!
I have in my mind the ideal thing: it would be like the _back_ of a
high-vis waistcoat but with just straps - with Velcro probably - across
the front. We don't need the front of the jacket much, if at all and
especially not for crew boats, and the straps would make it adjustable
in size. That, and the fact that there would be essentially no material
at the front to snag, should get round the too-loose problem.
Carl Douglas
I think it important that reflectivity has been mentioned. If there is
reasonable illumination, then a fluo yellow or other equivalent is
readily visible. If lighting is low, then you need reflectivity
Cheers -
carl
pdb
I think that a long-sleeve T-shirt with high-viz and reflective bands
on the sleeves, worn under an All-in-one would be a satisfactory
option in the winter. How about that Di?
Henry Law
> I think it important that reflectivity has been mentioned. If there is
> reasonable illumination, then a fluo yellow or other equivalent is
> readily visible. If lighting is low, then you need reflectivity
But there needs to be some light to reflect. Runners and cyclists have
their reflective strips lit up by car headlights but on rivers and
canals there is rarely any directional light so reflectivity is a bit moot.
Karon
and Gamex Jackets in Fluorescent Yellow - so both 'stand out' in dim
and dusky light. Not ideal for Bow if someone at 3 is wearing them -
but they sure stand out in the gloom.
Happy to send a fabric sample to anyine who is interested.
As several have said - no replacement for looking and taking care -
but I certainly wear mine in 'dull' weather - especially in Berlin
where I am sharing the water with very large barges!
Karon
New Wave UK
Carl Douglas
I wouldn't disagree, Henry. But provided there is low light, the
reflector will show something where the acid yellow may show not at all.
This is not a difference worth dispute: if you can have day-glo colour
_&_ a reflective element, then go for that.
However, do not expect day-glo colours alone to be all that helpful in
dim lighting - they ain't luminous, they just fluoresce, & that requires
incident light. Similarly, a reflective element doesn't do that much
for your visibility in good lighting. So it's horses for courses & if
Di can give you stuff which means you're backing both horses in the race
I can't see how you can do better.
Cheers -
Carl
Kit
There's this:
http://www.rutlandcycling.com/8837/Madison-High-Visibility-Reflective-Tabard.html
This should work with any outer wear being worn by the bowman without
getting in the way.
Also, most cycle shops sell reflective straps and belts. A combination
of one of those + white top/t-shirt would do as well I would think?
Kit