Women Coxswain in men's boats?
MsLace 05
What's the consensus? Do men prefer male coxswains at the helm? Doesn't
matter? Or prefer women?
Emad Isaac
doesn't matter....the only criteria is competency and
control....having a voice that doesn't make your ears bleed is a big
plus!
;^)
Melsomvik
As long as they are as good or better than my foot at steering, who cares what
they are.
DougD
My utterly unscientific opinion on this issue is that the bell-curve of
coxing ability is stretched a bit wider on each end for men. Which means
that, in my experience, the very best coxes I've rowed with have been men,
but so have the very worst.
I'm not sure how to explain the upper end ... perhaps its just that, in
very competitive racing situations, male coxes seem to have a slightly
better grasp on my race psychology. For women's crews, perhaps female
coxes do ... but then, you asked about men's boats ...
The low end is a lot easier to explain: a clueless female cox will
generally admit she's clueless and ask for useful suggestions, whereas a
clueless male cox will generally try to cover up his ignorance by
attempting something really stupid. :)
Cheers,
Doug
In article <199806121604...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
BilMcGowan
Is there a rule that men cannot cox women's boats? Just curious.
Neil Selby
In rec.sport.rowing BilMcGowan <bilmc...@aol.com> wrote:
: Is there a rule that men cannot cox women's boats? Just curious.
In the UK women can cox men's boats and men can cox women's. In fact, the
ARA rules don't specify 'mens' and 'womens' events but 'open' and 'womens'
so in fact women can *row* in men's boats.
Neil
ehr...@widomaker.com
ehr...@widomaker.com
In article <3583f...@newnews.widomaker.com>, <ehr...@widomaker.com> wrote:
>In article <6m0n2u$muo$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
>Neil Selby <ne...@earth.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>>In rec.sport.rowing BilMcGowan <bilmc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>: Is there a rule that men cannot cox women's boats? Just curious.
>>
>>
>>In the UK women can cox men's boats and men can cox women's. In fact, the
>>ARA rules don't specify 'mens' and 'womens' events but 'open' and 'womens'
>>so in fact women can *row* in men's boats.
>>
oops, sorry about the blank article. Don't know why it didn't send.
Anyway, what I said was:
I don't think Neil is right, unless the rule is very new. I remember
specifically the St. Anne's College first eight in 1996 had a woman in 7,
and was forced to withdraw from Wallingford Regatta because of that.
Oxford rules, however, do allow women to row in men's boats, and so
StAnnes was perfectly legal there.
CEE
W&M
Neil Selby
In rec.sport.rowing ehr...@widomaker.com wrote:
: I don't think Neil is right, unless the rule is very new. I remember
: specifically the St. Anne's College first eight in 1996 had a woman in 7,
: and was forced to withdraw from Wallingford Regatta because of that.
: Oxford rules, however, do allow women to row in men's boats, and so
: StAnnes was perfectly legal there.
OK, I think the rule came in in 1997, anyway, it's in the 1997 edition of the
rules I've got:
4-1-1 The Main Classes of events
Events may be held...[snip}
in each of these classes, open(by sex), women and mixed..
and then later
4-1-3 Senior Class
a. senior rowing is open to all registered competitors, whatever their
sex, weight or age
[snip]
4-1-4 Women's Senior class
Events restricted to women may be held at the same status levels as in
Senior class..
(BTW Charles, what used to be called 'open' is now called 'elite')
*However* most regattas still advertise 'men's' and 'women's' events, so
I don't know if all regattas accept entries from 'open' crews including
women. We've never tried.
As far as mixed crews at Oxford crews are concerned, apparently the first
"mens" crew with women in it was the 1969 Linacre college eight which
apparently caused some controversy at the time.
Neil
David Biddulph
ehr...@widomaker.com wrote in message <3583f...@newnews.widomaker.com>...
>In article <3583f...@newnews.widomaker.com>, <ehr...@widomaker.com>
wrote:
>>In article <6m0n2u$muo$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
>>Neil Selby <ne...@earth.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>In rec.sport.rowing BilMcGowan <bilmc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>: Is there a rule that men cannot cox women's boats? Just curious.
>>>
>>>
>>>In the UK women can cox men's boats and men can cox women's. In fact, the
>>>ARA rules don't specify 'mens' and 'womens' events but 'open' and
'womens'
>>>so in fact women can *row* in men's boats.
>>>
>
>oops, sorry about the blank article. Don't know why it didn't send.
>
>Anyway, what I said was:
>
>specifically the St. Anne's College first eight in 1996 had a woman in 7,
>and was forced to withdraw from Wallingford Regatta because of that.
>Oxford rules, however, do allow women to row in men's boats, and so
>StAnnes was perfectly legal there.
Rule changed from April 1997.
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/david_biddulph/rules97.htm
---
David Biddulph
mailto: David_B...@compuserve.com
David Biddulph
Neil Selby wrote in message <6m0n2u$muo$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>...
>In rec.sport.rowing BilMcGowan <bilmc...@aol.com> wrote:
>: Is there a rule that men cannot cox women's boats? Just curious.
>
>
>In the UK women can cox men's boats and men can cox women's. In fact, the
>ARA rules don't specify 'mens' and 'womens' events but 'open' and 'womens'
>so in fact women can *row* in men's boats.
But under FISA rules men can't cox women's boats or vice versa, except for
Masters events.
http://www.worldsport.com/sports/rowing/rules_racing/rules_racing2.html
--
David Biddulph
mailto: David_B...@compuserve.com
Iglapolo
Thanks for the FISA citation: at the International elite level, it's same
gendered cox's only. NCAA regs for US collegiate rowing have it now that only
women can cox women's boats, these rules don't apply to men's programs yet, so
on the men's side there are still both male and female coxswains. USRowing at
the club level is equal opportunity.
As a coach, I've had both male and female cox's in my first boats, and
different crews have made different choices. I do have the sense that most
male rowers, all other things being equal, will choose the male cox, but will
always choose the best cox they can have. I don't know why this is the case,
it's just a preference I've noticed men express over the years. Personally, on
race day, I want the coolest head and the straightest course possible out of my
cox, and the best cox I've ever coached was a woman in a women's boat, for
whatever that matters.
Charley Sullivan
Asst Men's coach, U-M crew
David
DougD <dav...@echonyc.spamguard.com> wrote in article
<davies-1306...@pool016-max1.ds7-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net>...
> I'm not sure how to explain the upper end ... perhaps its just that, in
> very competitive racing situations, male coxes seem to have a slightly
> better grasp on my race psychology. For women's crews, perhaps female
> coxes do ... but then, you asked about men's boats ...
I think this may depend on how long the cox has been with men. We had a
female cox this year who was finishing her third year on the team. She did
not lack for aggression. After several years of having to prove herself as
a special case, she developed an edge that lent itself to the job.
There's also the, er, gender angle. We ended up teasing her mercilessly
about everything from dates to...well...
I sincerely hope she isn't reading this.
>
> The low end is a lot easier to explain: a clueless female cox will
> generally admit she's clueless and ask for useful suggestions, whereas a
> clueless male cox will generally try to cover up his ignorance by
> attempting something really stupid. :)
She's the only female cox I have any real experience with, but I could cite
any number of silly things. :-) You did say "generally", though.
I'd guess history is more important than gender, tho - if a woman is coxing
men, why ? for how long ? in which boat ?
In our boat's case, I think she created something a male couldn't have.
While the other, male, cox was in the first boat (which may illustrate your
first point above?), she took us and pushed us to win time after time.
Admittedly, this is an anecdote, but I don't know yet if you can reason
other than anecdotally with coxswains.
-David Molnar
"see that? that's the line"
John Fife
I've had both, the gender doesn't bother me, but as far as agressive
racing goes I think a male odes a better job (in my experience), but if
you have a good and determined enough crew all you really need is a good
steersman or steerswoman who can make calls during a race.
John Fife
Jon
John Fife <jcr...@erols.com> wrote:
: I've had both, the gender doesn't bother me, but as far as agressive
: you have a good and determined enough crew all you really need is a good
: steersman or steerswoman who can make calls during a race.
In my limited experience of seeing truly GOOD coxswains at work, I've
noticed it is more a matter of personality and how well the cox interfaces
with the crew than their gender which decides thir success. A crew that
invites sexism on their part is one day going to lose out when a good cox
decides that they no longer want to steer them and moves to another club.
Jon
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
j...@durge.org
http://www.durge.org/~jon/
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Trevor Chambers
Neil Selby wrote:
> I don't know if all regattas accept entries from 'open' crews including
> women. We've never tried.
>
You're right - an event advertised as "Open" does not imply male crews,
though
of course most would be. A mixed crew could enter an Open event, and
come to
that a women's crew theoretically could too.
That said, all of the events I've sent club entries to this season have
offerred events for men or women or specifically mixed (hell, the only
pot
I've won thus far this season was in a mixed crew..), rather than Open,
so
I guess it' not going to crop up that often...
Trevor
Sudbury RC
Bryan Roach
Not that I am aware of. I've seen it happen lots of times. If the man
is small enough, he is perfectly viable for coxing. Often women will
not want to be coxed by a man simply because they tend to be a little
bit larger than a comparable female cox.
Alan Sherman
The message <35899563...@idirect.com>
from Bryan Roach <bro...@idirect.com> contains these words:
> Often women will not want to be coxed by a man simply because they
tend > to be a little bit larger than a comparable female cox.
Sometimes there's no choice. We're always short of coxes, so my lot
have to lug me over the course at Women's Henley tomorrow. I told
them that I'm the right weight for international men's events (55kg)
but 15 kg OVER for domestic women's races.
PS they don't like the term 'domestic women', they say it makes them
sound like houswives!! (with apologies to housewives).
--
Alan Sherman <woody....@zetnet.co.uk> Tel:- +44(0)181-995-3198
cox Thames Tradesmen's RC W8
David Biddulph
Alan Sherman wrote in message <199806190...@zetnet.co.uk>...
>The message <35899563...@idirect.com>
> from Bryan Roach <bro...@idirect.com> contains these words:
>
>> Often women will not want to be coxed by a man simply because they
>tend > to be a little bit larger than a comparable female cox.
>
>Sometimes there's no choice. We're always short of coxes, so my lot
>have to lug me over the course at Women's Henley tomorrow. I told
>them that I'm the right weight for international men's events (55kg)
>but 15 kg OVER for domestic women's races.
>PS they don't like the term 'domestic women', they say it makes them
>sound like houswives!! (with apologies to housewives).
I'm sure Alan's crew are delighted to have to lug him along. His experience
will be worth a lot more than the odd 15kg. He was winning at HRR even as
long ago as when I was racing there!