[UK] Blade paint?

[Henry Law]

Any recommendations from UK group members about a brand of paint to use
for blades?

I was going to use "ordinary" car spray paint but a couple of people
said it wasn't very durable. So I used some (quite expensive) stuff
from a specialist manufacturer but have just discovered that it scrapes
off with a thumbnail! (I'm in dialogue with the supplier about this,
needless to say).

(And yes, as far as I can tell I followed Concept's blade painting
recommendations to the letter, including guide coat and all).

I restrict myself to UK because I only want stuff that I have a chance
of getting OTSOTP!

--

Henry Law Manchester, England

[andymck...@gmail.com]

Henry

Been there done that.

Halfords appliance Gloss White turned out to be an effective paint stripper for grey finished Concept 2 blades. The positive was that it took the original paint (brush applied gloss?) nicely back to a smooth 'as new' surface. Turns out it's polyurtehane which isn't compatible.

Plasti-kote Gloss Super worked fine, and has proved fairly durable, though after 3 or 4 years i think a repaint is overdue.

The Concept 2 website has specs. http://www.concept2.co.uk/service/oars/painting-blades

Andy

[Henry Law]

Thanks for the reply, Andy.

On 11/01/15 19:11, andymck...@gmail.com wrote:
> The Concept 2 website has specs.http://www.concept2.co.uk/service/oars/painting-blades

Well, I saw that but found it not terribly helpful from the UK point of
view. Viz:

> Awlgrip (Awlgrip catalyst and thinner recommended)
Available; at over £100 for a quart tin; and I need two colours, plus
thinner/cleaner of some kind. I think yachting tax is being levied here.

> Petit (Petit primer recommended)
Couldn't find this one, but the search is polluted by all sorts of other
uses of "petit" and "petite" (let's not go there ...)

> Interlux
Couldn't find this one either in the UK but I think that "Toplac" from
International Paints is similar. £21.59 per tin, plus £8.39 for thinner.
That's expensive, but not significantly more than the stuff I've
bought already.

> Plasti-kote Gloss Super worked fine

OK, that's in a different league (it's available in B&Q, IIRC) but their
colour range is perplexing.
http://www.plasti-kote.co.uk/Product/pcode---4181/pccode---6751 says
it's available in 60 colours, but the chart they then provide lower down
has only eleven (and doesn't include one of my club's colours anyway).

I can go have a look on the shelf, see if it's some kind of mistake.

[andymck...@gmail.com]

Well never let it be said that I spare expense! I think the gloss Pasti-kote only comes in a few colours, but they were my own blades, so white was acceptable! For club blades our best results were persuading a member who runs a car repair and respray business to do them properly for us, we just gave him a colour swatch.

Coincidently I came across this link about using vinyl stickers so would that be an option?

http://www.row2k.com/columns/719/Rigger-Tricks--Blade-Stickers/#.VLOU7SusWSo

What I can say is that I really noticed a difference rowing with the blades properly smoothed and painted, against their rough original state - the entry and exit to the water was so much cleaner. Whether it made any difference to speed I have no idea as +/- a bit of slow is still slow, but it has since made me wince a bit when I see a crew at a top regatta rowing with tired and battered paint work.

Cue a nice complicated rsr debate that I won't understand on the effect of rough vs smooth blades on Reynolds number and turbulent boundary layers!

Andy

[Carl]

On 12/01/2015 09:50, andymck...@gmail.com wrote:
> What I can say is that I really noticed a difference rowing with the blades properly smoothed and painted, against their rough original state - the entry and exit to the water was so much cleaner. Whether it made any difference to speed I have no idea as ± a bit of slow is still slow, but it has since made me wince a bit when I see a crew at a top regatta rowing with tired and battered paint work.

>
> Cue a nice complicated rsr debate that I won't understand on the effect of rough vs smooth blades on Reynolds number and turbulent boundary layers!
>
> Andy

No change in Reynolds number except in proportion to your speed - if you
go faster, then flow along blade during catch & finish phases will quicken.

Boundary layer? Smooth, low-loss flow over surfaces is generally not
improved by surface roughness, but nor does it benefit from sharp &
angular leading edges. Oar blades should perhaps be described, from
their function, as turbo-machinery but designers of such advanced
fluid-dynamic apparatus might have difficulty in seeing them as typical
extensions of their field.

Cheers -
Carl

--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells

[Henry Law]

On 12/01/15 09:50, andymck...@gmail.com wrote:
> I came across this link about using vinyl stickers so would that be an option?

Interesting idea. If I'd known that I might have ordered my blades
pre-painted in the main colour and then sought a stick-on vinyl for the
stripe.

The blade is a complex shape; I think it would be hard to get a
whole-blade piece of vinyl to adhere smoothly.

[nowa...@gmail.com]

On Monday, January 12, 2015 at 5:53:22 AM UTC-5, Henry Law wrote:

The importance of a proper surface preparation and compatible primer can not be overstated...

[agrov...@gmail.com]

Hi Henry,

The C2 is an interesting surface to prep and paint, but is possible with time and good prep work. I assume you have the original spoons to deal with? First you need to give them a very good sand, using a 80 grit disc and orbital sander, sand away at the spoon, until the white is more a grey with the black carbon bleeding through it places. Make sure you sand the edges and it doesn't hurt to slightly round the edges, this stops the surface peeling when caught on something. Once sanded grey, just do a re sand with a 180 grit disc to make the surface smoother. Now wash and fully dry the whole blade with water, do get rid of all the sanding dust. Once dry mask up the parts of the blade that you don't want paint on, namely the shaft and vortex edge if fitted. Now using a de greaser or 'panel wipe' throughly clean the surface to be painted, not re touching with greased finger, fyi this does not include white spirits as that is a greased liquid. You should now be ready to prime the blade, for this you want to use a etch primer, though you want to find one that is designed to be used on plastic/grp surfaces, your local automotive paint supplier should stock. Let it have 12 hours to dry, now you are ready to prep for the top, coloured coat. Very light sand with some wet 300 wet and dry, you are looking to put a very light key in the primer, not remove any. Then same degreaser clean again. You are now ready to apply colour. Even though it is about £20 a can, and you will need 2 cans for 10 sweep blades I suggest using a 2 pac aerosol paint from your automotive paint supplier. You can have made up into any colour. The aerosols have the paint and hardener in them, so before use you pierce the seal between paint and hardener, shake to mix for over a minute and then spray. You have about 1-2 hours temp depending before the paint will set in the can. You get an amazing glass like finish with this paint and and extremely durable finish, which can also be re polished back to a shine.

Any further questions just ask, but having painted well over 300 spoons with this method I'm pretty happy it works!

FYI, in future if ordering new blades go for the C2 factory coloured finish, they will if you ask do any RAL colour, rather than just the ones on the website. Also the coloured finish is a lot softer, meaner when it come to painting you follow the method above, but can skip the whole priming stage and go straight on with the 2k aerosol following a light hand sand.

Good luck

Andy

[Henry Law]

On 18/01/15 17:55, agrov...@gmail.com wrote a huge post including this:

> The C2 is an interesting surface to prep and paint

Gosh! What a tour de force. Thank you very much for all that. I've
got to sand the damn things down to take off all the non-sticking paint,
so I'll just carry on down a bit.

The two-part aerosol idea has already been mentioned by someone else and
I've located a supplier from whom I hope to be able to pick the cans up,
rather than pay carriage on top of already quite considerable cost.

All this does invite the question as to why C2, who know that their
blades will all be painted by amateurs like me, don't prime them with
something more ready-to-go. The video on the web site doesn't say all
that much.

[wmar...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 23 January 2015 15:44:09 UTC-5, Henry Law wrote:
> On 18/01/15 17:55, agroves wrote a huge post including this:

While I'm not in the UK, I've painted some oars in the past. Best success was with a compressor, professional paint gun, two-part catalysed epoxy automotive paint. You need to control dust, wipe everything with "tack cloth" to get the dust and stuff off the prepared surfaces, mask everything, wear a respirator/filter mask to keep the paint out of your lungs, a full (disposable) coverall, goggles/mask, gloves.

My experience was that a local automotive paint supplier recommended the material, and it developed "orange peel" appearance on the blade due to some form of silicone that had remained on the blade from the molds. (moulds?)

Went back to the supplier - it turned out that adding 1% silicone to the paint allowed the paint to flow and remove the orange peel effect - managed to save the batch of paint that was in the spray pot even after driving out to pick up the silicone. (it was a small city)..
The catalysed paint cures hard -it doesn't just dry - and if you've done a good surface prep, the paint will stick for a long time, have no brush marks, and will resist little chips, dings, and scrapes that aerosol-can paint will show.

The set-up job can be quite a burden if you don't know a friend with painting equipment. Another solution might be to find a friendly auto-paint/repair shop who might apply your materials to your blades (if you supply them) in exchange for a learn-to-row session or some private lessons...

[Chris K]

Henry - just picked up your Jan 11 post.

I have painted blades since they were made of wood and had copper tips but it is only in recent times that I have encountered any significant problems with paint durability. When Concept2 delivered blades with a grey primer finish things were still generally OK even using the likes of standard paints from DIY stores. With the advent of their powder coated finish things changed. My club have a two colour blade design and so their option of a single colour other than white did not make much sense as we would still have to paint on the second colour never mind the extra £20 per blade. Concept2 were very helpful with advice by email and although it seemed counter productive to sand off most of the white powder coat I tried it and tried several different brands and types of readily available paint but all wore quite quickly.

In the end for new blades we decided to keep the white powder coat and apply a two colour self adhesive decal strip in club colours across the the tip on each side of the spoon. The decals we can bulk buy at a local firm a short distance from the club so no delivery charges! For blades already painted in our original two colour pattern I sand these down to remove the worst of the damaged paint and then apply 1 coat of International Yacht white Pre Coat followed by 2 coats of International Snow white Toplac gloss (bought from a local marine chandlers on my way to the club so again no delivery cost!)and then apply the decals. This has worked very well, durability is now satisfactory and blade painting time is much reduced and as a bonus the Juniors think they look cool. A rare compliment to a Vet H....
I take sets of blades home and do the work in my garage as this I find to be time efficient and no curious "are they dry yet finger marks...

Yes, ideally one would use on 2 pack polyurethane but this is expensive, requires an extra degree of skill, extra equipment and generally most clubs do not have the necessary separate workshop space. Aerosol car paint? Expensive, needs separate space etc. And I regard using aerosol paint in a boathouse as a hanging offence....

Cheers - Chris K

[John Mulholland]

Which is why, as an umpire, I can't spot your club at a distance! Your old blades were recognisable the full length of the Durham regatta course. At least I now know the reason for the change.

[Henry Law]

On 05/04/15 21:43, Chris K wrote:
> Henry - just picked up your Jan 11 post.

Well, that's better than the instances we've all seen recently where
posts have been resurrected ten or more years later!

Interesting what you say about the difference between the "old" Concept
primer and the new stuff. The feeling "out there" seems to be that the
new stuff isn't a good substrate for paint, and that it's better to more
or less sand it off completely, at least unless you're using one of the
specific paints that C recommend in their US-specific video. One has to
wonder what that primer is for, then.

Your use of decals on top of a white background is handy; since our
colours are black with a green stripe it's not so convenient for us. And
in any case the work I've been doing was on _personal_ blades, so no
economies of scale available. (No, don't start suggesting we do it
club-wide; too difficult).

> Yes, ideally one would use on 2 pack polyurethane but this is
> expensive, requires an extra degree of skill, extra equipment and
> generally most clubs do not have the necessary separate workshop
> space. Aerosol car paint? Expensive, needs separate space
> etc.

Well that's exactly what I have done, in fact. I've been waiting to
close out this thread because I've not actually used the blades yet, so
I've no idea how durable the finish is, but since I'm writing I'll
record some details.

I obtained two cans of aerosol two-pack paint from a local car-paint
supplier (Colourtone in Stockport). I specified two RAL colours, picked
from the RAL colour chart which is widely available on the net, which
are a pretty close match to what other people in the club have chosen
(we have, as far as I can see, no actual spec for the colours). I also
got some "etch" primer and some "panel wipe" (degreasant).

I sanded down the old duff paint finish and right down through the white
powder coating until the grey lower layer was just starting to appear.
Careful use of a sanding disc on my electric drill worked OK. Then I
degreased the blades (open air! gloves!) and put on a light layer of
the primer.

The paint was easy to apply and went on a treat: two light coats was
enough for a good rich finish. Masking up the blades (and then
reversing the mask for the second colour) took far longer than painting
them.

Yes the two-pack paint wasn't as cheap as Halford's car enamel (UKP11
per can, rather than UKP8), but I've always found that the cheap stuff
scrapes off rather easily so thought I'd try this. I would rather have
used brushing paint, but it's only available in enormous cans, which
would eventually be wasted, so aerosols it is.

Once I have a boat to try them with I'll really see what sort of a job
I've done!

[agrov...@gmail.com]

Hi Henry,

So pleased you managed to source all the different materials, that surface should last well. All the best!

[Henry Law]

On 07/04/15 22:17, agrov...@gmail.com wrote:
> So pleased you managed to source all the different materials

Ah, ahem, I realise I should have credited you with a lot of what I did
because it came from your post. It was a while ago and I forgot; sorry.

But you did write

> Even though it is about £20 a can, and you will need 2 cans for
> 10 sweep blades I suggest using a 2 pac aerosol paint from your
> automotive paint supplier. You can have made up into any
> colour. The aerosols have the paint and hardener in them, so
> before use you pierce the seal between paint and hardener

And re-reading it I'm puzzled. The "two-pack" paint I obtained isn't
supplied in its two components and there's no piercing operation; and
it's the same with other suppliers that I randomly found while
researching this post.

What I bought was this
http://www.colourtone.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_22&products_id=42
(with the "2 pack" option selected in the pull-down). And it was good
to use one day later (maybe since then too but I haven't tried).

I must say that doesn't sound like "two pack", when I think of it, since
I assume that there's some irreversible chemistry going on between the
two components once they're mixed.

Did I buy the right stuff? I suppose I shall find out soon enough.