Age Handicaps for Masters' Regatta
Nick Suess
that we will inevitably have to combine age groups in some events, and need
some guidance in how to work out fair handicaps. At a recent regatta those
calculated were clearly inadequate, and almost all the younger crews were
able to relentlessly grind down the older ones by mid course, especially
where the difference was more than one age band (eg B against D).
Needless to say I have a vested interest in seeing that the older age
categories get a fair go, so can anyone help with this?
Nick
Gareth G Price
Try the ARA rules of racing as these should have the GB handicaps in
there if not I'll dig out my almanck and mail u tomorrow.
Nick Suess <ni...@scull.com.au> wrote in message
news:39522f90$0$31...@motown.iinet.net.au...
Christopher Anton
> Nick
> Try the ARA rules of racing as these should have the GB handicaps in
> there if not I'll dig out my almanck and mail u tomorrow.
>
although they're not meant to be used to join unajacent categories. i.e. B/C or
C/D event is all right, but B/D isn't.
Steven Maynard-Moody
I think this is the formula for USRowing age handicaps for the 1X & 2-
per 1,000m: (age-27)^2*0.025.
For example, I'm 51 and so compared to a 27 year old masters single
rower I get spotted 14.4 seconds for 1K. Gives us old guys a chance!
Steven M-M
John Mulholland
handicap is about 9 seconds in 1000 metres (York). After you have waited
for 9 seconds at the start, it is dispiriting never seeing your opponent! I
feel that applying the handicap at the finish is fairer, certainly less
unfair for the younger competitor. The times are probably accurate for a
time-trial (as in a head) but side-by-side racing will always give an
advantage to the leader; the older if the handicap is given at the start or
the younger if it is applied at the finish. Applying it at the finish makes
accurate judgement by the leader harder, encouraging both competitors to row
the race to the finish. The only disadvantage is that the result must be
declared by the timekeeper because it is not just simply 'first past the
post'.
Anyone else have a view on this?
John Mulholland
Hexham Rowing Club
Christopher Anton <c.a...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3952456D...@cableinet.co.uk...
Sue Thomas
finished.
Crew ages are averaged. Some leave the youngest crew at 0 second handicap,
and add the handicap of other crews based on number of years over the
youngest crew.
For example, youngest crew averages age 30. Other crews average ages are
40, 45, 55 and 60. Handicaps are applied to the other crews -- 10, 15, 25
and 30 respectively while the youngest crew gets none.
Others calculate handicaps on average age over 27 years. So even the 30
year old crew mentioned above would get a handicap -- 3 seconds, while the
others would get 13, 18, 28 and 33 seconds.
..........
sue
Douglas MacFarlane
Price" <gareth...@emis.co.uk> wrote:
> Nick
> Try the ARA rules of racing as these should have the GB handicaps in
> there if not I'll dig out my almanck and mail u tomorrow.
^^
As they are the ARA rules they will give the handicaps as used in England!
The SARA rules, as used in Scotland, don't define the handicaps to be
used. In recent years the handicaping has been done at the start of
races. I have heard it suggested that the actual time is calculated on
the day and may be related the time being done over the course by open
crews but I don't know for sure. I would like to know how it is calculated
here, as on occassion it seems like a long long time to wait!!
Douglas.
(resident paranoid scot)
Ed
At last years Ontario Masters, the handicap was at the start of the
race. It is hard to sit in a boat while your oppenents are going off
5 or 10 seconds ahead of you.
Ed
Sue Thomas
the handicap after the race is complete. Canadian Masters in Welland last
year did the same.
Although it leaves you wondering until adjusted times are posted how you
did. When you have a 25 second handicap it can be hard to judge whether you
were actually 25 seconds ahead of that other boat!
And there's nothing to chase to motivate you. Once you are 20 seconds in
front you tend to stay steady instead of taking it up at the end. And that
could be the second or two that you need.
I always prefer the single age category races, so there are no handicaps.
Then there is no guessing and you don't need to know which lane has which
handicap. You just race!
Ed <ou...@hp.rmc.ca> wrote in message news:395364a0...@news.rmc.ca...
Anu Dudhia
> although they're not meant to be used to join unajacent categories. i.e. B/C or
> C/D event is all right, but B/D isn't.
That's only because it isn't considered much of a race if one crew starts too far
ahead of another. It's not because the time differences are invalid.
Basically the ARA system works as follows (consulting my ARA almanack as I type
this, p.173 of the 2000 edition for those of you who want to follow along...)
For each minute of `standard time' (meaning time for a Veteran A crew, average age
>=31), the tables suggest adding
Vet B (>=36) 0.6 secs
Vet C (>=43) 2.1 secs
Vet D (>=50) 4.5 secs
Vet E (>=55) 6.6 secs
Vet F (>=60) 9.0 secs
Vet G (>=65) 11.7 secs
Vet H (>=70) 14.7 secs
Vet I (?) 18.0 secs (rules don't actually say what Vet I means - missing
from p.316 - but it'll be a few years yet before I have to worry about that).
They give tables for 1 - 4 minutes in 10 sec intervals, then from 10 min to 22 min
in 1 minute intervals, but the handicaps all seem to assume a constant speed
difference whatever the distance. So for those of you wondering where I got the
extra decimal places, I took the 10 min time and divided by 10.
Nick Suess
Sue Thomas <suth...@islandnet.com> wrote in message
news:96177169...@news2.islandnet.com...
> That would be hard. I've never raced one that way. BC Championships
apply
> the handicap after the race is complete. Canadian Masters in Welland last
> year did the same.
>
> Although it leaves you wondering until adjusted times are posted how you
> did. When you have a 25 second handicap it can be hard to judge whether
you
> were actually 25 seconds ahead of that other boat!
>
> And there's nothing to chase to motivate you. Once you are 20 seconds in
> front you tend to stay steady instead of taking it up at the end. And
that
> could be the second or two that you need.
>
> I always prefer the single age category races, so there are no handicaps.
> Then there is no guessing and you don't need to know which lane has which
> handicap. You just race!
Yes, I agree, and that will be what we will try and achieve as much as
possible. I've only ever had handicaps applied at the start. When I've been
in the younger crew and had to chase, I have actually found it quite a spur,
thinking "let's go get those old bastards". When, as is increasingly the
case these days, I am in the older crew, or even more so when I am the older
sculler, I find it very intimidating to watch that faster boat coming at me,
and try and mentally figure whether I have the pace to hold out to the line.
And I reckon the handicaps in the tables present a reasonable percentage
comparator of boat speed in a sprint race of no more than 500m. But we
oldies flag more quickly, and sometimes the second half is just that bit too
much when a boat full of kids around 30 is coming at us like an express
train. My other experience is that few starters seem to have any concept of
just how long a second is, and I hear them counting very fast
"one-two-three..." and that other young bastard is after me like a shot.
Damn, I'm a sore loser!
As it is, in planning our regatta, we had been thinking of using our usual
1200 metre course here on the Swan at Bayswater, but with common sense
prevailing, we are now favouring our 550 metre sprint course for this. So
for anyone in WA, watch out for the published date, likely to be March/April
2001 for the inaugural ANA/Fremantle Veteran regatta. And any veteran from
interstate or overseas who has Perth on a prospective tourist itinerary,
time your visit to coincide, and at the very least there will be floor or
tent space at my place, and we'll find you a seat in a few crews.
Nick Suess
Vice President ANA Rowing Club
PO Box 126, Bayswater, WA 6933,
AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61 (0)8 9271 0466
Fax: + 61 (0)8 9271 0455
Clete Graham
They appear in the USRowing Rules of Rowing. I made an Excel spreadsheet out of them a few years ago and have now converted them to html to answer questions like those posed here. My understanding is the US rules originated with or copy the FISA version.
My experience is they work against the older folks. For the Schuylkill Navy and Independence Day Regattas we get enough entries to have separate categories in most events, certainly the mens singles. But for less well subscribed events, the regatta director is pretty much forced to put all the crews together in the same race. For example, at this year's Schuylkill Navy Regatta, in the mens master four we had five Bs and one E category crew, and in the womens master four we had one B, one C, and two Ds. There's really no alternative to putting them together in the same race. It's rare that an E crew is going to beat a B crew even with the time adjustments.
Clete
phof...@math.uwaterloo.ca
in Masters rowing. I'm not a rower, just an erger, but have looked
fairly carefully at the best data I could get for deciding about
handicapping in nordic (cross-country) skiing. A rough summary of
that data indicates that from age 40 to 50, there's about a 5% loss
of speed, between 50 and 60, about 10%, and from 60 to 70 another 15%.
This compounds to closer to 35% than 30% over the 40 to 70 range of ages.
Because of the greater strength and anaerobic power needed in the
generally shorter rowing events, versus the greater aerobic endurance
needed in typical ski races (15 min. to over 2 hours duration), those
figures above are probably quite wide of the mark for rowing. But it
would be interesting to know. Do world records exist (on the water, not
the erg) for 2000m. at various ages? Would these (or the erg records)
be the right data to use to decide on a fair system of handicapping?
For various reasons, it isn't that simple for nordic skiing.
Best, Peter phof...@math.uwaterloo.ca
Christopher Anton
John Mulholland wrote:
> The handicap may be applied either at the start or at the finish.
Not according to ARA rules. The handicap must be applied at the start. I agree
though that with too big a handicap it's not a race but a time trial, that's why
it should only be used in adjacent categories.
Douglas MacFarlane
(Douglas MacFarlane) wrote:
> In article <961687986.4204.0...@news.demon.co.uk>, "Gareth G
> Price" <gareth...@emis.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Nick
> > Try the ARA rules of racing as these should have the GB handicaps in
> > there if not I'll dig out my almanck and mail u tomorrow.
> ^^
>
> As they are the ARA rules they will give the handicaps as used in England!
> The SARA rules, as used in Scotland, don't define the handicaps to be
> used. In recent years the handicaping has been done at the start of
> races. I have heard it suggested that the actual time is calculated on
> the day and may be related the time being done over the course by open
> crews but I don't know for sure. I would like to know how it is calculated
> here, as on occassion it seems like a long long time to wait!!
>
> Douglas.
> (resident paranoid scot)
Self followup.... The other problem with using the ARA numbers is that
their aga ranges do not all match the FISA ones. Their Vet A starts
older than FISA vet A I think.
Douglas
chris harrison
> Self followup.... The other problem with using the ARA numbers is that
> their aga ranges do not all match the FISA ones. Their Vet A starts
> older than FISA vet A I think.
Indeed, VetA is 31, MastersA is 27. They do come together at Vet/Masters
B, IIRC.
--
chris harrison
http://www.lowfield.co.uk/