2k single scull speed vs ergo score
Stamps
technique, or vice versa.
I'm 83kgs, 6'3" tall and can do 2k on the erg in 6:40 (with a
following wind, maybe...). I'm 39 in a few days and have limited
training time before I get too much grief about my (possible) erg
score. What should I be aiming for in a single scull given my
physiology? Good, bad, woeful? What are likely 2k times for a range of
abilities with this level of fitness, say novice, intermediate, elite?
Of course assuming neutral water conditions, no wind etc.
Thanks!
Kit
AIUI, ergs are most similar in split/power ratio to a 4- (ie. 4 * 6.40
ergers should cover 2k in 6.40 in a 4-, in theory). Don't know if that
helps but you may be able to scale based on that.
Stamps
4- to 1x is about 50 seconds I think, give or take, so that would make
my 1x about 7:30. This would then mean that - sadly as expected - my
technique is relatively worse than my fitness as I don't think I'll
hit 7:30 just yet. On the plus side, this means I need to spend more
time in the boat and less time on the ergo!
But presumably a 110kg 'beast' who only does 6:40 on the erg isn't
ever going to do 7:30 on the water, so to benchmark current physiology
some weight-relationship / factor is needed too. Still, on the basis I
am neither particularly fat nor skinny (average comes to mind), adding
50 secs might be ok in my case. Any other views?
vet...@hotmail.com
You have 14 years advantage over me; in 1996 I was much fitter (ergo
2k 7.00) than I am today, but went over my first tideway head @ a
split of approx 2.25. Now I could probably scrape 7.20 - 7.25 on an
ergo, but sculled this year's head @ approx 2.15.
Modest figures for sure - but I know that at the moment the greatest
limitation on my speed is my (lack of) fitness.
What's a good figure to aim for ? The world record 2K ergo is 5.36,
Mahe Drysdale reportedly pulls 5.48, and his world record sculling 2K
is 6.33. So perhaps we could say that your sculling 2K should be
between 113% to 117% of your ergo 2K - 7.32 to 7.48. Your actual time
will tell you whether you should concentrate on technique or fitness.
Vet B times for 1K (Henley Vets and Nat Vets Champs) are obviously
variable, but a quick look through results since 2001 indicates 3.35 -
3.40 as fast times. Using the 'double the distance, add 5s to the
split' rule, this would give 7.20 - 7.30 as fast 2K VetB times.
Does this get us anyywhere ? Not sure, but have to get back to work
I'm afraid.
Paul W
Fordmeister
If its any help its a lot easier to pull a good erg score than go flat
out in a scull ! My best 2k last year was 6.22 which compared
favourably to one 8 seconds quicker 4 years before. I am now a 40 year
old lump.
My sculling though was way off and I was about a minute slower over
our mini head course of 17 minutes and although i didn't race I knew I
would have been slaughtered.
Ergo's don't float and 2k is not a great test. Do 6k's much more fun !
Easiest way to get quicker on an erg is to set the clock to your PB
and see how many meters you can do.The one meter extra you may do is
so much more satisfying !
MagnusBurbanks
To answer various questions here:
> If its any help its a lot easier to pull a good erg score than go flat
> out in a scull !
Personally I am the other way around - I find it much easier to either
approach max HR or go to exhaustion in a boat than on the erg. I find
the erg soooo soul-destroying: no change in scenery, nothing to focus
on except the pain. In a 1x or any other boat I'm completely absorbed
by the opposition and I seem able to shut out much more of the pain.
It all catches up at the finish line though!
> Ergo's don't float and 2k is not a great test. Do 6k's much more fun !
Haha how apposite. See this article on my little rowing-related site,
which I entitled with exactly that phrase:
http://www.slidingseat.net/studies/studies.html#ergboat
I used data from some recent GB aspirants' squad trials to directly
compare boatspeed and ergscore. Admittedly the rowing was over 5k and
the erg over 2k, but it does address your exact question for a wide
range of abilities.
Cheers, Magnus
sully
Scullers I've had with erg scores around 6:15 will generally scull
singles in competitive races at about 7:25. These are ppl who've
rowed sweep for years, and converted to singles that year or year
before and haven't done lots of racing. My expectation is
generally to add 1:15 to your expectations of erg vs single, and
subtract 1x seconds by training miles and competitive race
experience. US scullers tend to not have a lot of race experience,
this formula follows very well if you look at Warren Anderson who can
spin sub 5:50 on an erg but doesn't scull below 7:00.
Mike
Fordmeister
wrote:
Having watched my brother on an erg a few years back pull a 2.57 for
1k I got too thinking if his technique could be applied over 2k.
Unfortunatley his close grip hand position on the handle was with
thumbs interlocked was uncomfortable.His parting of the knees to allow
the arms to go down the middle also seemed unnatural as did the pull
to the chin !Oh and he was very much a spent force at 1k and would
never be allowed and erg in my company again. Told him to stick to
rugby but amazing what brute force and ignorance can do.
My point is that the gap between erg and water speeds are much finer
at elite level. The gap widens as you come down the scale and the
ability to apply the power in the water is properly tested. So many
great veteran scullers at my club. Like golf, my motivation in this
sport is to watch and learn from the masters and hope that I can make
my boat speed look as effortless as they do.
Stamps
I make it 7:30-7:40 by adding 5 secs to the 500m split? Not that far
off the other replies, seems like 50 secs to 1:15 is a reasonable
expected range.
Thanks everyone! I think sub-8:00 is the first target, then getting as
near to 7:30 as I can.
For Carl's benefit - Alice and I were out in our CDX this morning, the
first time since our daughter was born - she is now 2! - it was a bit
dusty but we had a great outing, it really is a lovely boat and the
weather in Hong Kong this time of year is ideal for ploughing up and
down.
vet...@hotmail.com
Agreed ! Oops - that would be because 2K = 4x500, not 2X500.
(Just as well I don't deal in numbers for a living - hang on though, I
do ....)
PW
MagnusBurbanks
thought I might try to interpret that data to suggest a range of 2k
times for you.
Reading directly from the 2007 plot, you should expect a sculling pace
range of 7:53 (level = v good club sculler) to 8:30 (lowest end of
club triallists).
However, the sculling in this data was done over 5k, so it needs to be
adjusted for 2k pace. Using a method I've described lower down the
same page on my site, I estimate that a 5k piece will be done at ~7s/
500 slower than a 2k piece, or 28s/2000.
Thus, the data suggests that the skilled to lower-club sculling range
for 2,000m for a 6:40 ergscore should be 7:25 - 8:02.
Hope that's helpful
Cheers, Magnus
Stamps
wrote:
Really helpful, thanks very much.
remyvan...@gmail.com
Paul
> Does anyone have a formula for a Double scull and ergo?