shirt betting etiquette
ehr...@widomaker.com
Let me start by making one thing clear: I do not wish to re-open the
debate on r.s.r about whether the tradition of betting shirts is a good or
bad one. Every other time the subject has come up here, things have
gotten bloody (right, Sully?).
However, the tradition does (did?) indeed exist in US collegiate men's
rowing that the winning crew collects the shirts from each of the crews it
has defeated. This is a very old tradition, but has it changed since I
was last in the US in 1991?
Back then, it went without saying that shirts were bet on all standard
2000-meter races. For fully-funded programs, the shirts being bet were
literally the shirts off the rowers' backs from the race (unisuits were
still pretty rare then). For club-level programs, it was accepted that
giving over racing shirts was perhaps too expensive, and separate "betting
shirts" were substituted. But even so, betting shirts was an understood
tradition. If a race was not for shirts for some reason, then someone
would make that clear beforehand - otherwise, shirts were assumed to be on
the line.
Here we are several weeks into the season, and my crews have yet to
receive a shirt from an opponent. We have been told that these sorts of
things need to be agreed on by the individual crews before each race. In
some cases we have been told that the opposing crew hasn't heard of the
tradition and does not have betting shirts anyway, and in others they know
about the tradition but say it only applies when the crews agree on the
dock before launching or even on starting line. I'm not sure crews should
be fraternizing immediately before a race, let alone thinking about these
things. I tell my crews to ignore their opponents prior to their races,
and I believe that's a pretty common instruction by coaches. So getting
the crews together during the warm-up to discuss shirts is not really on.
We don't have much tradition down here, but I have tried to connect my
guys to the long tradition the sport of rowing in general has. They have
a great respect for the traditions of this sport, including shirt-betting.
Each of my crews has now lost once, and each of them has given over shirts
(well, actually, our order didn't arrive in time for last week so we are
mailing a couple to Marietta - my guys felt really bad about not being
able to give them over on race day). They would obviously have preferred
winning, but they have no qualms about handing over shirts because they
feel that this is a classy thing to do and that this action connects them
to the traditions of the sport. But they are beginning to feel like they
are the only crew which even keeps this tradition alive.
So, when is this matter supposed to be breached? When did betting shirts
cease to be the norm for men's collegiate racing? What is the etiquette
these days? Is it just that this tradition never made it to the
Mid-Atlantic and South, so that it is a geographical thing?
Frankly, I've got more important things to worry about right now, and so
do my crews. But I am a little curious at what has happened to this
tradition while I've been abroad. And after I explained this tradition to
my rowers at the beginning of the year, they have been asking me what's
up, too, and I simply don't know. No one they have beaten has given them
shirts, and they haven't observed anyone else giving shirts.
If someone can explain what the custom is right now, I can explain it to
them, and we can move onto a more worthwhile topic.
Again, I know the arguments pro and con about whether this is a good or
bad tradition. All I want to know is whether it is still done, and if so
how it is properly carried out these days, because it is obviously a lot
different than it used to be not long ago. I'm not losing any sleep over
this.
Good luck to all crews.
Charles Ehrlich
Men's Coach
William & Mary Rowing
--
_____
=======||==================< |
`----
Joseph S. Cendrowski
Unfortunately, these days it seems to have come down to the level of all
things in the US...a signature on paper that "legally binds" you to
turning over your shirt if loose or entitles you to one if you win.
This example is best made every year at the SIRAS in Oak Ridge, TN where
the entry package includes a shirt race form and those who bet are
posted on the board.
Tradition still holds, to the best of my knowledge, at the Dad Vail
where most crews that have competed in the "event" turn in their shirt
to the ultimate winner after the finals.
Personally, I think the agreement should be made prior to the start by a
member of the crew.
If for any reason a crew refuses it shouldn't be taken negatively. Many
times, the crew simply does not have the financial means to afford shirt
racing.
Just my $.02!
Joe Cendrowski
Robert Eikel
I have heard (no supporting evidence :) that the NCAA is looking into
shirt-betting as illegal gambling. It is also rumored that Navy Crew is
not giving shirts this year, perhaps as a result of this NCAA business.
It all sounds like just talk to me, since of course men's crew is not
NCAA, and women's crews do not usually bet shirts (that I know of).
--
Robert Eikel A tired mind become a
rei...@hcs.harvard.edu shape shifter
Keith Blodorn
I have to agree with Charles. Shirt-betting, once standard for
races, is now something that must be agreed upon before the race.
I know that betting shirts has nothing to do with the race
itself, and it's not the reason we race. But it is a part of the
tradition that makes rowing such a great experience. It's too
bad that so many crews have wimped out. I can only assume that
crews who don't assume shirts are on the line expect to lose even
before they launch. What a shame.
Keith Blodorn
10330...@compuserve.com
--
K. Blodorn
10330...@compuserve.com
Colin Upson
>I know that betting shirts has nothing to do with the race
>itself, and it's not the reason we race.
It's too
>bad that so many crews have wimped out. I can only assume that
>crews who don't assume shirts are on the line expect to lose even
>before they launch. What a shame.
>Keith Blodorn
>10330...@compuserve.com
I would like to remind you that in many regions (Mid-Atlantic included) the
younger programs competing have a difficult enough time trying to budget
equipment, entry fees, traveling costs, lodging, etc. In my opinion, it is
far more important to aim those monetary resources towards allowing crews the
opportunity to row and compete in the sport they enjoy (regardless of whether
they win or lose). I don't believe that they always "expect to lose before
they launch". Rather, not having betting shirts to hand to the winning crew
may be due to more effective prioritization of a club or small program's
resources.
Jay Feenan
The tradition as far as I remember it [rowed Dad Vail school...from '76-'80,
coached Dad Vail level schools early '80s and '90s]. Is that it is optional and
agreed upon prior to racing....all my crews would bet at every race.
Normally there is a coxwains meeting prior to racing and this is where the
agreement is made.
Dad Vail/IRA regattas there is no 'agreement', the winner would get the shirt and
side 'agreements' may optionally be made to make petite finals more interesting.
Summary:
What you think things have evolved into were the rules that I remember back in
the late '70s...maybe they are cyclical in nature!
-Jay Feenan
R. Hughes
Here at the University of Washington, we still race for shirts on all
occasions. If we lose, we give up our tank-tops right off our backs that
we raced in. We expect the same from the crews we beat, but don't always
receive shirts. Most of the smaller club crews don't give up shirts,
maybe becuase they lose more often. Anyway, I think it is a good
tradition and the word should be spread.
Bobby Hughes
U.W. Crew, Seattle, WA
Mike Sullivan
ehr...@widomaker.com wrote:
>
> Let me start by making one thing clear: I do not wish to re-open the
> debate on r.s.r about whether the tradition of betting shirts is a good or
> bad one. Every other time the subject has come up here, things have
> gotten bloody (right, Sully?).
I've been getting used to a new newsreader, so I've been in read-only
mode while
I screw up the courage to try one of these newfangled deals. I'm
guessing that
my 'Sully's Maze' alias is likely to disappear, schade.
> However, the tradition does (did?) indeed exist in US collegiate men's
> rowing that the winning crew collects the shirts from each of the crews it
> has defeated. This is a very old tradition, but has it changed since I
> was last in the US in 1991?
As Jay suggests, which 'tradition' is that? By the way, I fully applaud
your use
of the word 'etiquette', it's most appropriate to the topic.
>
> Back then, it went without saying that shirts were bet on all standard
> 2000-meter races. For fully-funded programs, the shirts being bet were
> literally the shirts off the rowers' backs from the race (unisuits were
> still pretty rare then). For club-level programs, it was accepted that
> giving over racing shirts was perhaps too expensive, and separate "betting
> shirts" were substituted. But even so, betting shirts was an understood
> tradition. If a race was not for shirts for some reason, then someone
> would make that clear beforehand - otherwise, shirts were assumed to be on
> the line.
In the past RSR 'bloody debates', this is contended. That shirt racing
evolved
to a system of 'going without saying' is what defied the tradition, and
banished
all semblance of etiquette.
> Here we are several weeks into the season, and my crews have yet to
> receive a shirt from an opponent. We have been told that these sorts of
> things need to be agreed on by the individual crews before each race. In
> some cases we have been told that the opposing crew hasn't heard of the
> tradition and does not have betting shirts anyway, and in others they know
> about the tradition but say it only applies when the crews agree on the
> dock before launching or even on starting line. I'm not sure crews should
> be fraternizing immediately before a race, let alone thinking about these
> things. I tell my crews to ignore their opponents prior to their races,
> and I believe that's a pretty common instruction by coaches. So getting
> the crews together during the warm-up to discuss shirts is not really on.
This could be handled well before regatta time by your team captain, or
by yourself, charles, no? Certainly wondering whether or not you are
getting or
receiving shirts on the outcome of the race could be a distraction.
(delete)
> So, when is this matter supposed to be breached? When did betting shirts
> cease to be the norm for men's collegiate racing? What is the etiquette
> these days? Is it just that this tradition never made it to the
> Mid-Atlantic and South, so that it is a geographical thing?
yes, that is the question, isn't it?
I think it important to distinguish between tradition and usage. I
consider
the rather unsportsmanlike assumption that crews ought to race for
shirts a
usage and practice, rather than a tradition.
The tradition of shirt racing is a gentlemen's agreement by
representatives of the crews. It need not interfere with race
preparation, and should not interfere with
sportsmanlike attitudes. This agreement can be effectively formalized
in championship regattas, but if you have to enforce contracts, it's
long gone past
any semblance of the tradition it once was.
Mike Sullivan
I hope this works
Kieran A. Coghlan
ehr...@widomaker.com wrote:
>
> Again, I know the arguments pro and con about whether this is a good or
> bad tradition. All I want to know is whether it is still done, and if so
> how it is properly carried out these days, because it is obviously a lot
> different than it used to be not long ago. I'm not losing any sleep over
> this.
>
> Good luck to all crews.
>
> Charles Ehrlich
> Men's Coach
> William & Mary Rowing
>
> --
> _____
> =======||==================< |
> `----
Charles,
I know it doesn't help much, but on the west coast, the tradition
remains exactly as you have described it was in '91 before you left. I
think you may have hit the proverbial nail, in guessing that it is a
geographical problem. Maybe get in touch with some of the other coaches
in your area/division/etc. and try to re-start the tradition. We at UCI
are not a fully funded program, but always bet the shirts off of our
backs. They are simply cheap-o tanks with minimal printing, but they
are the ones used in the race. Actually, I graduated last year, and
this year the Varsity are racing in expensive cool-max henley shirts (go
figure), so the shirts they bet are the same cheap-o tanks from
previous years, they just don't race in them. (the novies are still
betting and wearing the tanks)
I have never in my rowing career, had a crew say, or had to tell a crew,
that a race was for shirts. It was always assumed, and I got shirts for
every race I won, and gave them up for every race I lost. And, this
included the 1994 Champion International Collegiate Regatta in Occoquan,
VA (which I believe is a mid-Atlantic regatta.) At the San Diego Crew
Classic, the winners get the shirts from all competitors in an event,
all the way down to petite or 3rd finals. At the Pacific Coast Rowing
Championships, the winner of the Grand Final gets shirts from crews in
the Grand final only. The winner of the Petite gets shirts from the
crews in the Petite final only, and so on. This is kind of a cool
practice, if you ask me, because it makes the petite worth something, if
only shirts. I think, however that the winner of the Petite gives their
shirts to the winner of the Grand. (not sure on that one, though...)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Kieran Coghlan, Mechanical Engineer, McDonnell Douglas Aerospace
University of California, Irvine Varsity Men's Crew, 1992-1996
email: cog...@samail.csnovell.mdc.com.removethispart
------------------------------------------------------------------
o __o __o __o __o
_________(___\_))__\_))__\_))__\_))_____________.
-------`-------------------\-----------\--------------'-----------
\ \
( \ ( \
------------------------------------------------------------------
"...The proper function of man is to live, not to exist.
I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them.
I shall use my time." --Jack London
------------------------------------------------------------------
Views expressed are not necessarily those of McDonnel Douglas.
Kieran A. Coghlan
Kieran A. Coghlan wrote:
>
>
> I have never in my rowing career, had a crew say, or had to tell a crew,
> that a race was for shirts. It was always assumed, and I got shirts for
> every race I won, and gave them up for every race I lost. And, this
> included the 1994 Champion International Collegiate Regatta in Occoquan,
> VA (which I believe is a mid-Atlantic regatta.) At the San Diego Crew
> Classic, the winners get the shirts from all competitors in an event,
> all the way down to petite or 3rd finals. At the Pacific Coast Rowing
> Championships, the winner of the Grand Final gets shirts from crews in
> the Grand final only. The winner of the Petite gets shirts from the
> crews in the Petite final only, and so on. This is kind of a cool
> practice, if you ask me, because it makes the petite worth something, if
> only shirts. I think, however that the winner of the Petite gives their
> shirts to the winner of the Grand. (not sure on that one, though...)
> --
As a side note I believe that if a crew simply can't afford to bet
shirts because of lack of finances, then the coach should simply inform
the opposing crew's coach of this ahead of time, and there should be no
shame in racing without betting.
CRCport
>I know that betting shirts has nothing to do with the race
>itself, and it's not the reason we race.
It's too
>bad that so many crews have wimped out. I can only assume that
>crews who don't assume shirts are on the line expect to lose even
>before they launch. What a shame.
>Keith Blodorn
>10330...@compuserve.com
I think it's sad that people have the idea that those who don't bet expect
to lose. I've been in boats that have negated a bet and crusehed the
challenger by lengths. Honestly, some teams that bet are a little too
cocky and I believe that's why they lose.
chris.
Brian J. Elsts
Kieran A. Coghlan wrote:
>
> Kieran A. Coghlan wrote:
> >
> >
> > I have never in my rowing career, had a crew say, or had to tell a crew,
> > that a race was for shirts. It was always assumed, and I got shirts for
> > every race I won, and gave them up for every race I lost. And, this
> > included the 1994 Champion International Collegiate Regatta in Occoquan,
> > VA (which I believe is a mid-Atlantic regatta.) At the San Diego Crew
> > Classic, the winners get the shirts from all competitors in an event,
> > all the way down to petite or 3rd finals. At the Pacific Coast Rowing
> > Championships, the winner of the Grand Final gets shirts from crews in
> > the Grand final only. The winner of the Petite gets shirts from the
> > crews in the Petite final only, and so on. This is kind of a cool
> > practice, if you ask me, because it makes the petite worth something, if
> > only shirts. I think, however that the winner of the Petite gives their
> > shirts to the winner of the Grand. (not sure on that one, though...)
> > --
>
> As a side note I believe that if a crew simply can't afford to bet
> shirts because of lack of finances, then the coach should simply inform
> the opposing crew's coach of this ahead of time, and there should be no
> shame in racing without betting.
I think that everyone big or small should bet (no excuses).
If I had to pay for shirt betting (thank God that I didn't), I would.
How much can a few shirts cost? Not a whole lot, and if you are buying
in large quantities, even less. You don't need some crazy 10 color
design that is going to cost an arm and a leg to buy. A single color
screen is around $25. Each shirt is about $5, maybe less, maybe a
little more. How many races does each school participate in? Five
duels, plus Sprints, IRA's, San Diego, or whatever?
That's not alot of money. It's also a good time to get used to the fact
that this is an expensive sport. Boats, oars, and coaching isn't free
when you get older.
Just my opinion.
William M. Sauve
When I was in college, if the race was a major one, we gave betting
shirts to the winners (we wore unisuits) - and some crews had the good
taste to give thiers to us when we won. We never asked for shirts -
though sometimes an agreement was made to bet shirts on the starting
line. This was usually at less formal races, where we would not
normally expect or give shirts.
I certainly am a fan of shirt betting - I feel it is one of the
things that separates us from other sports. It shows a great deal of
class - and a defeated oarsman's shirt is a better trophy then a medal
any day.
Will
Brady M. Bustany
I am certain that betting shirts is illegal under NCAA rules for those crews
covered under the NCAA umbrella. (I can't quote the section -- but I can
probably look it up if no one else knows)
In the past, however, I know when Michigan was a club, the women and men always
assumed that shirts were being bet. The men at Michigan traditionally pulled
alongside the crews that had beaten them and gave them the shirts off their
backs. Conversely, I recall a number of races we won in which the opposing
crew(s) said afterward that they 'didn't know we were betting shirts' and thus
never complied. So many years later and I'm still bitter about a few shirts I
never got! :^)
Brady
Chris Tolsdorf
Mike Sullivan <gc....@forsythe.stanford.edu> wrote:
>In the past RSR 'bloody debates', this is contended. That shirt racing
>evolved
>to a system of 'going without saying' is what defied the tradition, and
>banished
>all semblance of etiquette.
I'm am not sure why 'going without saying' banishes all semblance of
etiquette.
>This could be handled well before regatta time by your team captain, or
>by yourself, charles, no? Certainly wondering whether or not you are
>getting or
>receiving shirts on the outcome of the race could be a distraction.
Don't worry about whether or not shirts are being bet or not. Any
crew I put on the water will bet shirts. Whether any of the crews we
are racing will as well is not a concern. Do I think they should?
Yes. Do I think less of them because they don't? No. I think that
the tradition of betting shirts is a unique, gentlemanly aspect to the
sport of rowing, and I want to to see that tradition continue, and I
hope that all crews will honor the tradition.
>I think it important to distinguish between tradition and usage. I
>consider
>the rather unsportsmanlike assumption that crews ought to race for
>shirts a
>usage and practice, rather than a tradition.
Why is the assumption unsportsmanlike? Going around demanding shirts
after you win is unsportsmanlike, the assumption that everyone will
bet is not. It is how you react when you discover that your
assumption is incorrect determines what kind of sportsman you are.
>The tradition of shirt racing is a gentlemen's agreement by
>representatives of the crews. It need not interfere with race
>preparation, and should not interfere with
>sportsmanlike attitudes. This agreement can be effectively formalized
>in championship regattas, but if you have to enforce contracts, it's
>long gone past
>any semblance of the tradition it once was.
Again, I assume that you are not associating the belief that everyone
should bet shirts with unsportsmanlike activity. There should be no
enforcement of shirt betting. Maybe I don't agree with the decision
not to bet shirts but that is as far as it will go.
>Mike Sullivan
>I hope this works
I think we are saying the same thing, just with the emphasis in
different places.
Chris Tolsdorf
tsch...@jamesmartin.com
As someone who has participated in both Dad Vail and EARC rowing, it was
my experience that shirt betting was an "understood" component of all
regular 2000 meter spring races in the EARC (the occasional pre-season
scrimmage excepted). My experience at a "Dad Vail School", however, was
that while shirt betting was understood to occur at the Vails and the
state regatta, it did not occur unless agreed upon otherwise at
"in-season" races.
Therefore, I'm not all that surprised by William & Mary's experience. I
do agree, however, that it can lead to some confusion; although it's not
by any means the most significant part of the event, as a participant it's
good to have a clear understanding of what's on the line. It sounds like
something that would best be handled ahead of time by the coaches of the
respective teams.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Juan Carlos Valls
I have also heard this rumor under the same circumstances, ie teh NCAA
(Neo Communists Against Athletes) say since it is betting, it is
illegal.
The NCAA is evil and its administration is crowded with idiots who do
not know or understand any sports but the revenue producers (football,
basketball. baseball)
How can betting a shirt be bad? How will it influence the outcome of a
race? Do you really think soem guy is going to pay off another guy to
throw a race just so that he can get his shirt? If he were gogin to go
to that much trouble, he could just buy it or steal it.
The NCAA is evil and we should all band together to fight this demon,
this veritable beelzebub, this blight on teh hindquarters of Collegiate
Athletics which threatens to destroy everything good and decent about
sport and human kind.
We are now, my friends, standing at the edge of the abyss. Below
resides ignominy and bureaucratic hellfire. We must stand up for what
we know is right and decent. The NCAA is neither right nor decent. If
you have a soul, bet your shirts in defiance of any school regulations
or NCAA guidelines. The NCAA's intrusions are a sin against God and
humankind.
Fight the Power!
I bid thee all adieu,
and keep that damn slide under control,
Joseph Romanow
Hcrunon
When I raced in a small-prep-school league (4+s only) in Massachusetts,
shirts were never on the line unless the crews agreed to a bet while an
the stakeboats. Even then, my team gave up "betting shirts" rather than
the costly shirts we wore in races. When I moved on to the Ivy League
(mid-1970s) and EARC, shirts were always understood to be on the line.
Even at that level some crews gave away non-race shirts, but most gave
away the shirts from their backs. I like the school tradition that the bet
must be made explicitly at the stake, but on the other hand the sackful of
colors that I took home once from the Eastern Sprints was delightful. Now
I'm coaching a collegiate club in the Midwest. Haven't had to address this
question yet as a coach, because so far all of our racing has been at open
regattas--we have no scheduled dual or three-way meets yet. I don't know
what we'll do when we come to that bridge...
Howard Runyon
Chicago
Jonathan Mekinda
Here in the Eastern Sprints league we still bet shirts at every race, both
dual and championship. I have never heard of this being questioned and
have always assumed that the other rowers know that their shirts are on
the line. At Sprints, the winner of the grand final gets all the
shirts-means the winner walks away with about sixteen shirts or so-not bad
for an afternoon's work. My experience is that IRAs, this years national
collegiate championship, works the same way. While I don't race for the
shirt, it is perhaps one of the best aspects of rowing competitively.
Seems a shame that this tradition is being lost.
Jonathan Mekinda
Brown '99
Kieran A. Coghlan
Uhhh... lemme get this staight then, I'm not sure- do you or don't you
like the NCAA? You know, 'cause it's just not clear here. I think you
need to be a little more emphatic in your rhetoric.
ya know... fer us slow types... YUK, YUK!
Pretty funny exposition, though. =8^)
ehr...@widomaker.com
Just a summary of where I stand, then.
I do indeed understand the reasons crews might not bet shirts (other than
"wimping out"). At William and Mary, we live on a day to day budget with
no support from the College. Since the program has not been around very
long, we also cannot rely on any capital fund, and our young alums are not
yet in a position to contribute huge sums (as one alum put it recently,
she is still trying to pay off the money she spent paying dues while she
was here).
I would not expect a small club program to bet its racing shirts, simply
because of the expense. Separate betting shirts are fine, and can be made
cheaply (ours are inexpensive but still rather nice, in my opinion). If a
fully-funded varsity program tried substituting betting shirts for its
racing shirts I would think it would be frowned on. I vaguely remember
when I was an undergrad that another crew in our boathouse received such a
substitute shirt, and the coaches had to go sort that one out.
If crews don't bet, then fine. I did not mean to insult anyone, I merely
wanted to know what happened to the tradition.
As for the NCAA's misguided paternalism, I do have something to add.
Winning shirts is no more gambling than winning medals. What's more, I
don't see the tradition as one of gambling, but rather as one of respect.
It is not really "betting" per se, but really "giving," a sort of gift
after the race. Crews want to win, of course, but if they don't they
should want to give up their shirts out of respect for their opponents. I
don't know if that makes sense, so I'll try to give an example.
At the Occoquan Sprints last week, when it became clear that not everyone
was giving shirts, my crews which lost did indeed have an excuse if they
did not wish to give theirs up either. But they, independently of me,
decided that they wanted to do so out of respect for the traditions of the
sport and out of respect for the crews which beat them. This was a
decision they made as crews, and one which I very much support. Actually,
I was glad to see that I have gotten them thinking this way without me
having told them my opinion on the matter.
This week at the GW Invitational, they were of the same mindset. However,
the regatta organizers made a point of telling us from the outset that if
any crew was not betting shirts then no one was to give them shirts under
any circumstances. Navy, which won all the men's events, was not betting
(funny, they used to when I was an undergrad), and it took some convincing
to keep my guys from giving shirts and to stay in accordance with the
express instructions of the regatta organizers.
I am trying to build up a program from freshmen (I do have one varsity 4+
which is on board now so they can row next year when my frosh move up and
we have a proper varsity men's squad). Without any tradition at all
around here, I am trying to make my frosh feel like they are part of the
greater rowing world, to make them love the sport and respect its
traditions.
I guess I do sort of agree with Mike Sullivan that this tradition is one
which a crew should want to observe as opposed to feeling like it is
forced to observe. I simply disagree with him about whether this is a
good or bad tradition. However, my point was not to debate the tradition
but to ask what became of it.
One other interesting note which someone suggested in an e-mail to me:
that most of the programs around this part of the country have started up
on their own without much impetus from the more traditional rowing
circles. Therefore, most of the coaches are either recent alums of these
programs, who therefore only know what traditions these programs already
have but no more, or are masters or club rowers who are unfamiliar with
collegiate traditions. I thought this was a good explanation.
The NCAA does not govern men's rowing, and I hope it never will. As for
women's rowing, I only found out about two weeks ago that women even bet
shirts. I had never heard of that happening before. Indeed, having gone
to an EARC college as an undergrad, and having gone to our women's races
to cheer them on, I do not remember them betting at all - quite the
contrary, I do remember them commenting that they wished they had that
tradition. Women, of course, might not want to hand over their shirts on
the water.
Anyway, I feared this would start a lively thread. All I wanted was an
answer, though. Sorry, Mike, if you are offended as usual by this topic.
;^).
Again, good luck to all crews.
Geoffrey Hoffman
In article <5ipg29$h...@wilma.widomaker.com>, ehr...@widomaker.com wrote:
>This week at the GW Invitational, they were of the same mindset. However,
>the regatta organizers made a point of telling us from the outset that if
>any crew was not betting shirts then no one was to give them shirts under
>any circumstances. Navy, which won all the men's events, was not betting
>(funny, they used to when I was an undergrad), and it took some convincing
>to keep my guys from giving shirts and to stay in accordance with the
>express instructions of the regatta organizers.
I have a question about this. Is Navy not betting at all now? (I'm
sorry, i guess i should say "exchanging shirts based on results") If they
are not, I was wondering why, because it seems that the rest of the league
is continuing to award shirts based on results. If this is the case, does
that mean that since one school is not offering shirts, that no one will
at sprints or IRA's? I don't get it.
We had a race against Georgetown last weekend, and there was never a
question about it. They aren't even in our league, per se. Our Varsity
and JV split with Georgetown and both schools offered their shirts without
a problem.
>The NCAA does not govern men's rowing, and I hope it never will. As for
this is a good point people need to remember. The NCAA does not control
men's rowing, so if we really want to get specific, I don't beleive their
regulations can apply.
Is there a way that someone can lock this down specifically, so that
schools don't get misled and the sport can remain the way it has always
been?
(As an aide, my dad won sprints when he was in the JV, and he still has
all those shirts today. He remembers them much more than any medal or
trophy he may have gotten. It would be a shame to see this tradition
disappear.)
thebat
Jonathan Mekinda wrote:
>
> Here in the Eastern Sprints league we still bet shirts at every race, both
> dual and championship. I have never heard of this being questioned and
> have always assumed that the other rowers know that their shirts are on
> the line. At Sprints, the winner of the grand final gets all the
> shirts-means the winner walks away with about sixteen shirts or so-not bad
> for an afternoon's work. My experience is that IRAs, this years national
> shirt, it is perhaps one of the best aspects of rowing competitively.
> Seems a shame that this tradition is being lost.
>
> Jonathan Mekinda
> Brown '99
Why don't the vails schools bet shirts? When I was racing as an
undergrad, I thought that betting the shirt on your back was part of
racing--there was no choice in the matter, nor did we ever question it.
Are there unspoken vails rules about no shirt betting, unless each and
every crew member agrees to it during the starting procedure?
wmz...@aol.com
The discussion on shirt betting etiquette has brought up the involvement of the NCAA and the governance of collegiate rowing in the United States. Specific mention has been made of the fact that
betting shirts is in violation of NCAA rules. This has led some people to launch into a diatribe against the NCAA and its involvement in rowing. I think it is time for someone to put forward a more
balanced post with regard to this issue.
First, I think that it is worth pointing out that the NCAA has recognized rowing as an emerging sport for women and is sponsoring a national championship this spring. So, whether one is for or
against the NCAA, I think it is a safe bet that the NCAA is here to stay. It would therefore be most productive to understand the NCAA's role and manage its involvement rather than to disparage
their very existence.
I think that it is also worth noting what the NCAA is. It is not merely some corporate entity that is ensconsed in some office building in Kansas. Rather it is a body that is formed by, comprised
of, and managed by its members, who are colleges and universities thoughout the United States. The NCAA and its policies are simply a reflection of the desires of their member institutions. It is
probably true that the NCAA as an organization, as well as the administrations of many colleges and universities, does not understanding rowing as well as it understands the revenue sports. And it
is also probably true that many of the NCAA rules are written with the large revenue sports in mind and those rules might seem awkward or unneeded for our sport. But that is no reason to dismiss the
NCAA out of hand.
The Collegiate Rowing Coaches Association, with the help of the ECAC, had a significant impact on the NCAA rules that currently apply to rowing. Those rules manage to preserve the conduct of rowing
virtually the same as before the NCAA adopted the sport. The NCAA women's rowing committee, which includes collegiate rowing coaches, manages the conduct of the national championship and certainly
keeps the needs of the sport foremost in their minds.
So, of what benefit is the NCAA to collegiate rowing? For starters, we will have an annual regatta which will bring over 400 student athletes to a high quality regatta that will determine a true
national champion. And this is all at NCAA expense. We also have dozens of new institutions sponsoring the sport at the varsity level, thus astronomically increasing the opportunities for student
athletes to participate in our sport on a funded basis. Increased scholarship opportunities will most likely have a trickle down effect and increase involvement at the high school level. There will
be a trickle up effect that will help improve the collegiate system as a feeder to the national team. I know that at my institution the NCAA involvement is responsible for the athletic department's
plan to put over $100,000 into the program next year with further increases planned.
The NCAA is not a perfect organization. On the other hand, I have been involved with other organizations that govern collegiate rowing, such as the Western Intercollegiate Rowing Association, the
Dad Vail Rowing Association (now essentially defunct, although the regatta prospers), and have knowledge of the EAWRC and others. The NCAA is clearly at least as organized and beneficial for our
sport as these other governing / sanctioning bodies. So I urge us all to evaluate the NCAA's role in collegiate rowing with an open mind.
Bill Zack
Head Rowing Coach, California State University - Sacramento
Rowing Coordinator, CSU Sacramento Aquatic Center
Marketing and Promotions Director, 1997 NCAA National Collegiate Women's Rowing Championship
(not an NCAA paid position, but my title in our university's regatta host committee)
Todd P. Kennelly
-.---====/ JaToCo Inc. \====-.-
--
On 14-Apr-97 03:15:59, wmzack, posted the following::
> The discussion on shirt betting etiquette has brought up the involvement of
> the NCAA and the governance of collegiate rowing in the United States.
> Specific mention has been made of the fact that betting shirts is in
> violation of NCAA rules. This has led some people to launch into a diatribe
> against the NCAA and its involvement in rowing. I think it is time for
> someone to put forward a more balanced post with regard to this issue.
< very well written post re: NCAA and Rowing deleted to save space >
> Bill Zack
> Head Rowing Coach, California State University - Sacramento
Bill, Thank you for a breath of fresh, well reasoned, air.
Cheers, Todd K.
--
=========================================================================
\ \ Cape Cod Rowing Center
-===O=O===> Fax: (508) 362-O.A.R.S. (6277) / /
/ / E-mail: To...@CapeCod.net -or- -===o<=O=O=O=O===>
CapeC...@InOrbit.com. \ \
=========================================================================
Brian J. Elsts
Actually a good friends father rowed in the Vails way back in the day
(60's). He won whatever event he had raced, and still has the shirts in
his attic. So, I guess the Vails teams just stopped betting somewhere
along the line.
I think the betting stopped when many schools were just starting the
programs later along in life (i.e. the 80/90's). Since they don't have
a tradition to uphold with a new program, they probably never really
thought about betting until they got to the Vails.
Once they saw everyone giving their shirts to Temple, they went home
thinking that next year they too would bring shirts to bet. Next year
came and went. Some started betting, while others forgot all about it.
They probably read some NCAA manual along the way too. It said "NO
BETTING!". . . These were good kids, they just wanted to row those funny
canoes like everyone else. They took every word of it seriously.
Little did they know that all the big boys up North have been secretly
dropping shirts into the hands of the race winners as they shook hands,
and congratulated them on a good race.
Perhaps everyone needs get in on this secret? Just casually leave your
old, sweaty, never going to wear again, bad luck shirt in the seat of
one of those $30,000 garbage cans. Yes, maybe the garbage can just
happens to be sitting next to the winners of the race. Maybe when you
are at it, you can introduce yourself to the "trashmen", and complement
them on their job.
I have actually given several of my shirts to that king of garbage
collection; Brown, and my garbagemans name was Jamie Kovan.
And they all lived happily ever after(except for that guy that is still
pissed off for leaving all his shirts with the same garbage man every
year)
But that's the point isn't it. It's not betting if it's implied before
the race starts. If you say lets bet shirts, that's betting. If you
just give it away to the winner without saying anything before hand,
that's a trophy.
Deep thoughts by,
BJE
Jjlucier
:Are there unspoken vails rules about no shirt betting, unless each and
:every crew member agrees to it during the starting procedure?
The last time I raced at the Vails they had something in the entry packet
that asked if you would bet shirts. This was turned in well before the
regatta started. I am not sure if they still do this. The teams that did
not turn in this form were obligated to bet shirts, I think. (I don't know
since I never won, but gave up my shirt to Temple plenty of times.)
Jeff Lucier
Jefferson Freshmen Boys Coach
John Ross
>> Jonathan Mekinda wrote:
>> >
>> > Here in the Eastern Sprints league we still bet shirts at every race, both
>> > dual and championship. I have never heard of this being questioned and
>> > have always assumed that the other rowers know that their shirts are on
>> > the line.
<SNIP>
Among the Dad Vail level programs in the South, most will race from
late February through early May, amounting to at least 10 races
yearly. At $5 per shirt (a doubious figure, I fear) and assuming
several eights even a small program is looking at a $1000 expenditure,
(omit well-worn lines regarding small programs and finances).
>> > Seems a shame that this tradition is being lost.
>> >
>> > Jonathan Mekinda
>> > Brown '99
>>
>> Why don't the vails schools bet shirts? When I was racing as an
>> undergrad, I thought that betting the shirt on your back was part of
>> racing--there was no choice in the matter, nor did we ever question it.
>>
>> Are there unspoken vails rules about no shirt betting, unless each and
>> every crew member agrees to it during the starting procedure?
>>
>>thebat
>>>
Actually, almost all programs will bet at championship level regattas.
Dad Vail lierature to participants requires written notice if a team
will not be betting shirts. This may change due to "you know who".
>Actually a good friends father rowed in the Vails way back in the day
>(60's). He won whatever event he had raced, and still has the shirts in
>his attic. So, I guess the Vails teams just stopped betting somewhere
>along the line.
>
>
> I think the betting stopped when many schools were just starting the
>programs later along in life (i.e. the 80/90's). Since they don't have
>a tradition to uphold with a new program, they probably never really
>thought about betting until they got to the Vails.
>
<SNIP>
Most southern crews race virtually all of their season in regattas,
not match races. The participants are largely the same at these
regattas, meaning a crew will race a regional rival six or seven times
in a season.
>
>And they all lived happily ever after(except for that guy that is still
>pissed off for leaving all his shirts with the same garbage man every
>year)
>
<SNIP>
If a program racing primarily in regional regattas bet shirts each
time, they could well end up leaving shirts with the same garbage man
every _week_.
>
> Deep thoughts by,
> BJE
Feel fortunate if you row or have rowed for a program which benefits
from this honorable tradition. Also be aware that the rowing world
includes many sets of circumstances different from your own.
In closing, I would add my voice to those who mourn the decline in
this tradition, particularly by means of beaurocratic decree.
Gregory Kogut
Kieran A. Coghlan wrote:
>
> ehr...@widomaker.com wrote:
> >
> > Again, I know the arguments pro and con about whether this is a good or
> > bad tradition. All I want to know is whether it is still done, and if so
> > how it is properly carried out these days, because it is obviously a lot
> > different than it used to be not long ago. I'm not losing any sleep over
> > this.
> >
> > Good luck to all crews.
> >
> > Charles Ehrlich
> > Men's Coach
> > William & Mary Rowing
> >
> > --
> > _____
> > =======||==================< |
> > `----
> Actually, I graduated last year, and
> this year the Varsity are racing in expensive cool-max henley shirts (go
> figure), so the shirts they bet are the same cheap-o tanks
Yeah, in our dual against Irvine I was getting fired up to get me one
of those henleys and was more than a little disappointed to get another
cheap-o tank.
> At the Pacific Coast Rowing
> Championships, the winner of the Grand Final gets shirts from crews in
> the Grand final only. The winner of the Petite gets shirts from the
> crews in the Petite final only, and so on.
Not last year. My boat won the Petite finals, and we gave our shirts to
the winner of the Grand Final, and got no shirts from the Petite or
Truck finals (which would have given me yet *another* Irvine tank :) )
Greg
UC San Diego Varsity Men's Crew
Brian J. Elsts
John Ross wrote:
>
> >> Jonathan Mekinda wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Here in the Eastern Sprints league we still bet shirts at every race, both
> >> > dual and championship. I have never heard of this being questioned and
> >> > have always assumed that the other rowers know that their shirts are on
> >> > the line.
> <SNIP>
> Among the Dad Vail level programs in the South, most will race from
> late February through early May, amounting to at least 10 races
> yearly. At $5 per shirt (a doubious figure, I fear) and assuming
> several eights even a small program is looking at a $1000 expenditure,
> (omit well-worn lines regarding small programs and finances).
Which equals to $50 per person. This is about equal to one good night
out at a bar (maybe for two, but probably one) Maybe all of those other
expenses are not necessary? I notice that outside of the Sprint league,
lots of people buy shirts from those big regattas. Maybe they really
don't need one of those ######## Regatta 199# shirts. After all, if you
know anything about fashion, dated shirts are only good for that year.
> >> > Seems a shame that this tradition is being lost.
"Tsk, Tsk, Tsk (shaking his head). . . What a Shame."
> >> > Jonathan Mekinda
> >> > Brown '99
> >>
> >> Why don't the vails schools bet shirts? When I was racing as an
> >> undergrad, I thought that betting the shirt on your back was part of
> >> racing--there was no choice in the matter, nor did we ever question it.
> >>
> >> Are there unspoken vails rules about no shirt betting, unless each and
> >> every crew member agrees to it during the starting procedure?
> >>
> >>thebat
> >>>
> Actually, almost all programs will bet at championship level regattas.
> Dad Vail lierature to participants requires written notice if a team
> will not be betting shirts. This may change due to "you know who".
>
> >Actually a good friends father rowed in the Vails way back in the day
> >(60's). He won whatever event he had raced, and still has the shirts in
> >his attic. So, I guess the Vails teams just stopped betting somewhere
> >along the line.
> >
> >
> > I think the betting stopped when many schools were just starting the
> >programs later along in life (i.e. the 80/90's). Since they don't have
> >a tradition to uphold with a new program, they probably never really
> >thought about betting until they got to the Vails.
> >
> <SNIP>
> Most southern crews race virtually all of their season in regattas,
> not match races. The participants are largely the same at these
> regattas, meaning a crew will race a regional rival six or seven times
> in a season.
> >
Well, there is only one winner of the race.
> >And they all lived happily ever after(except for that guy that is still
> >pissed off for leaving all his shirts with the same garbage man every
> >year)
> >
> <SNIP>
> If a program racing primarily in regional regattas bet shirts each
> time, they could well end up leaving shirts with the same garbage man
> every _week_.
> >
I have done this, and so have many others out there. Do you think one
shirt a year is good enough for these people? I remember in an issue of
American Rowing that was about a guy at Penn. He had something like 150
shirts that he won in his four years of school. I don't know, but it
would seem that he had quiet a few repeats?
> > Deep thoughts by,
> > BJE
>
> Feel fortunate if you row or have rowed for a program which benefits
> from this honorable tradition. Also be aware that the rowing world
> includes many sets of circumstances different from your own.
>
> In closing, I would add my voice to those who mourn the decline in
> this tradition, particularly by means of beaurocratic decree.
I guess, but I gave away plenty of shirts (more than I care to discuss).
I don't bet shirts now that I am out of school, and doing the club
thing. I still wish everyone would do it while they are in school. If
anything it allows you to get to meet that guy, or girl that beat you.
Think before you go out and buy that Gore-Tex weather shirt, or any
other unnecessary clothing for rowing in. One of those jackets could
probably buy alot of shirts. And in the winter, do you really need
those pogies when the temperature only gets to around, or above
freezing? I don't think so. They are so hot that even in 10-20f temps
you take them off after your warm-up.
BJE
Kieran A. Coghlan
Gregory Kogut wrote:
>
> Kieran A. Coghlan wrote:
> >
> > this year the Varsity are racing in expensive cool-max henley shirts (go
> > figure), so the shirts they bet are the same cheap-o tanks
>
> Yeah, in our dual against Irvine I was getting fired up to get me one
> of those henleys and was more than a little disappointed to get another
> cheap-o tank.
Hmmm... As I recall, UCI's V and JV were still wearing the black tanks
for your duel race this year. And, there was no official victor for
your race, since the race was inturrupted by a luxury cruiser, and UCI V
had breakage in the re-row. The official result for that race was that
the Varsity event was a "non-race." UCI gave their shirts to UCSD that
day out of courtesy, they were never defeated. Too bad UCSD didn't feel
so obligated. The first race this year that the V8 wore the henley's
was the SDCC (I think.)
> > At the Pacific Coast Rowing
> > Championships, the winner of the Grand Final gets shirts from crews in
> > the Grand final only. The winner of the Petite gets shirts from the
> > crews in the Petite final only, and so on.
>
> Not last year. My boat won the Petite finals, and we gave our shirts to
> the winner of the Grand Final, and got no shirts from the Petite or
> Truck finals (which would have given me yet *another* Irvine tank :) )
Well, at least *somebody* still finds Irvine shirts valuable!! ;-)
When I was a Sophomore in the JV8, (1993) we lost the petite final at
PCRC to OSU (I think,) and everyone in that heat gave their shirts to
them. I can't remember what we did in '94 (we were in the Varsity
petite final), and in '95 and '96, we were in the GF, so maybe the
"rules" have changed for shirt "exchanging" at PCRC since '93.
> Greg
> UC San Diego Varsity Men's Crew
--
ThresholdMURPE
In article <334F71...@post.drexel.edu>, sg96...@post.drexel.edu wrote:
>Why don't the vails schools bet shirts? When I was racing as an
>undergrad, I thought that betting the shirt on your back was part of
>racing--there was no choice in the matter, nor did we ever question it.
>
>Are there unspoken vails rules about no shirt betting, unless each and
>every crew member agrees to it during the starting procedure?
Then why is it that Drexel was notorious for never giving shirts when they
lost. Even when they were bet explicitly at the stakeboats...
-Michael Hartman
======================================================
Michael A. Hartman
Georgetown University, School of Foreign Service, 1994
Georgetown Varsity Lightweight Rowing, 1990-1994
University of Georgia School of Law, 1998
======================================================
Carl Spackler
In article <33563...@news.athens.net>, mac...@ix.netcom.com says...
for the same reason Netcom College never bet shirts, asswipe.
translation: 'thebat' doesn't row for Drexel, you constipated little
domain name snob.
i'd be willing to bet that your four years at Georgetown were
the slowest on record
i'd also be willing to bet that the 1998 graduates of Georgia Law
are pretty slow too!!
of course, i could be wrong---you must just be uniquely this stupid,
and not a product of your environments.
Carl
Awbartlett
While I was rowing in college (1986-1990) at a Vails school, I noticed a
change in shirt betting etiquette...my freshman year, we assumed that
shirts went to the winner, no previous agreement necessary. By my
sophomore year, schools started yelling to each other about "you wanna bet
shirts?!?" at the starting line. It was never questioned that at New
Englands or Dad Vails that if you didn't win the whole thing, you gave up
your shirt (a betting shirt, not the shirt off your back) to the winning
crew - this was for both men and women! I now coach for a Vails school,
and as far as I know, shirts go to the winner (and no sign-up in the entry
packet or anything like that).
Mcres3
I don't understand the whole concept. I row for Whichita State University
and we are a pretty good team. We recieve very little funding from the
school. We always dominate the great plains rowing championships. This
year we again dominated there taking 1st in every event we entered (for
the men). Yet we never recieved a single shirt. When we finished 5th at
the San Diego crew classic and we didn't even consider not giving up our
shirts. Where and when do we get shirts. We won several head races in
the fall and never saw a shirt. This system needs to be looked at, I
believe I have been cheated out of shirts from at least 10 schools. So
anyone who wants to send me a shirt or trade a shirt can email me at
bmwo...@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu
We can discuss what can be done about the problem and hopefullf trade some
shirts!
Jesse Laird
Hi,
As a novice rower, I don't know if I'm best qualified to answer this
question, but the following is my understanding of the process for
getting shirts at races:
I. The idea of racing isn't to win shirts. It's developed as a
tradition and an honor. I've heard the term "shirt honors" used to
describe the process, and I think it better describes the process than
"shirt betting." Regardless of the term, as I understand it, the losing
crew(s) will approach the winning crew and introduce themselves, shake
hands, and take their shirt off and hand it to the same seat on the
other boat. It's not required, but it's more of a way to meet the other
rowers and discuss the race on friendly terms; the act of giving up
one's shirt is a symbol of respect and sportsmanship.
II. By the same token, respect and sportsmanship are integral to the
process. Winners shouldn't approach the losing crews and ask for (or
expect to get) the other team's jerseys. If a team is unwilling to give
up their jersey, then the winner is expected to show sportsmanship by
not demanding or complaining about not getting a shirt. Comments like:
> This system needs to be looked at, I
> believe I have been cheated out of shirts from at least 10 schools.
seem to miss the entire point. You weren't CHEATED out of the shirts.
A jersey is only worth the respect and sportsmanship which were shown
when it was given. I look at the shirts I have, and distinctly remember
how impressed I was with the other crew. It's neat to have the shirt,
but it's really cool to meet and just talk with the people you were
putting every muscle in your body into trying to beat only minutes
earlier. I personally wouldn't want a shirt which wasn't voluntarily
given in the deep-rooted spirit of sportsmanship which makes crew such
an amazing sport.
III. I row for Oregon State University, and the issue of jerseys has
been explained by our coach and some of my friends on the varsity team.
Personally, I wouldn't even think about refusing to give up my
jersey--under any conditions. I'd imagine it depends on the program,
but the understanding here is that if you lose, you give up your shirt.
I guess you just have to understand that different programs have
different views on the issue.
Good luck on the rest of your races this season! I hope any of this is
useful, and I'd welcome any additions or modifications from those moree
knowledgable than I (that leaves a pretty open field, doesn't it?) :)
-Jesse Laird
la...@engr.orst.edu
Kieran A. Coghlan
Well, I think simply put, this practice does not exist in your region.
If you want to start it, have your coach discus it with opposing coaches
in your region. Or, at your next duel, ask the other crew during the
warmup before the race.
By the way, I don't think shirts are ever bet for head races. Usually
it's just the spring sprints (i.e. 2km races.)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
Kieran Coghlan, Mechanical Engineer, McDonnell Douglas Aerospace
University of California, Irvine Varsity Men's Crew, 1992-1996
email: post to rsr, please.
Steven Gillespie
For a novice rower, you seem to have a solid grasp of this sport.
Steve Gillespie,
University of Washington Crew
On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Jesse Laird wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As a novice rower, I don't know if I'm best qualified to answer this
> question, but the following is my understanding of the process for
> getting shirts at races:
>
> I. The idea of racing isn't to win shirts. It's developed as a
> tradition and an honor. I've heard the term "shirt honors" used to
> describe the process, and I think it better describes the process than
> "shirt betting." Regardless of the term, as I understand it, the losing
> crew(s) will approach the winning crew and introduce themselves, shake
> hands, and take their shirt off and hand it to the same seat on the
> other boat. It's not required, but it's more of a way to meet the other
> rowers and discuss the race on friendly terms; the act of giving up
> one's shirt is a symbol of respect and sportsmanship.
>
> II. By the same token, respect and sportsmanship are integral to the
> process. Winners shouldn't approach the losing crews and ask for (or
> expect to get) the other team's jerseys. If a team is unwilling to give
> up their jersey, then the winner is expected to show sportsmanship by
> not demanding or complaining about not getting a shirt. Comments like:
>
> > This system needs to be looked at, I
> > believe I have been cheated out of shirts from at least 10 schools.
>
William M. Sauve
--------------E640A3607A8D1DA05F0E6533
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jesse Laird wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As a novice rower, I don't know if I'm best qualified to answer this
>
> question, but the following is my understanding of the process for
> getting shirts at races . . .
I think you're right on target novice, and that is really exactly
how I have ever felt any time I got shirts for winning a race. When my
crew was decimated by Georgetown at the '95 Champion International - I
was eager to bring my shirt over to thier trailer, just so I could get a
look at the seven seat who was clearly so much faster than I was. It
was an honor to shake his hand and give him my shirt to go with the
armful that he already had. Other times, I have had the oarsmen from
crews bring me thier shirts still wet with river water and sweat, and it
really made me think about what that guy poured into his oar - making
the race mean that much more to me. I never thought of rowing as a way
to get shirts - instead, whenever I do wear a shirt that I was given
after a race, I remember that race and what it felt like to win.
It's nice to see someone new to the sport so in touch with the old
traditions.
Will
--------------E640A3607A8D1DA05F0E6533
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><BODY>
Jesse Laird wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Hi,
<BR>
<BR>As a novice rower, I don't know if I'm best qualified to answer this
<BR>question, but the following is my understanding of the process for
<BR>getting shirts at races . . .
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR> I think you're right on target <I>novice</I>, and that
is really exactly how I have ever felt any time I got shirts for winning
a race. When my crew was decimated by Georgetown at the '95 Champion
International - I was eager to bring my shirt over to thier trailer, just
so I could get a look at the seven seat who was clearly so much faster
than I was. It was an honor to shake his hand and give him my shirt
to go with the armful that he already had. Other times, I have had
the oarsmen from crews bring me thier shirts still wet with river water
and sweat, and it really made me think about what that guy poured into
his oar - making the race mean that much more to me. I never thought
of rowing as a way to get shirts - instead, whenever I do wear a shirt
that I was given after a race, I remember that race and what it felt like
to win.
<BR> It's nice to see someone new to the sport so in touch
with the old traditions.
<BR>
<BR>Will
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>
--------------E640A3607A8D1DA05F0E6533--
David Tew
I haven't rowed since the 70's, but it's great to see that the Oregon State
coaches and upperclass rowers are passing on honorable traditions of the sport.
We would frequently exchange shirts on the water, in dual races, by bringing the
boats together and meeting our counterparts right after the race when we were
all still out of breath. It was a great feeling to look at your new shirt stuffed
down by your stretcher as you rowed back to the dock. And if you didn't win, the
shared and humbling experience of returning to the dock "bareback" was
inspiration for all the members of the crew to row better next time. It was a
form of symbolism that really contributed to the sport, in my mind.
Richard D. Lewis
Excuse me, but I thought the Great Plains Reggata was
snowed out this year.
Richard Lewis Vicksburg Rowing Assoc