Rowing is boring to watch
Bowside
watch, shouldn't we do the same with rowing to make it appeal more?
The only thing that I can think of it to make the courses shorter, or
the boats slower.
Before lots of people post replies saying, "but what about the 1964
olympic 2x final..." consider that most races are not so exciting.
PK
John/Lyn Wylder
Track and field can be a drag (10,000 m on a 250m track !!!!).
The question needs to be broken down by understanding what you want to
accomplish:
_ make it nore "viewer friendly"
_ get more competition
_ have closer finishes
_ increase participation around the world
etc.
Now if you want to make it "exciting and user firendly" how about 1,000m
races starting at opposite ends of a 2,000 meter course with one finish
line in the middle ? You could use every other lane. Then coxing would
really have a value.
I have also seen handicapped STARTS ! Instead of starting even, the
fastest boat starts last (age handicapped veterans/masters).
How about modeling on horse racing - you add wieght to the fast boat to
even things out.
All these could achieve one of the above abjectives......
Mulder1357
of highly-paid spoiled athletes to put on a show/carnaval and please a crowd.
It's not like the athletes are the ones pushing themselves to gain intrinsic
satisfaction from victory.
SM
(and what the hell happened in the 1964 Olympics 2x?)
PicaJet
participating. We do it because we love moving boats and killing ourselves in
the process. We don't care what onlookers think, do we? It's a sport for
participants not for watchers.
Anyway all races are boring to watch if you do not know anything about the
personalities, where they come from, what their ambitions are, whom they have
beaten or lost to, whether they are world champions or world record holders,
whether they might be capable of breaking a world record, who their parents
are, how old they are, how heavy they are, whether they are recovering from
injury, whether they have previously been accused of drug abuse, who in the
squad they are currently have a liaison with, who their coach is and what
difference that might make, etc. etc.
This is what makes a 100m running race, that lasts less than 10 seconds,
interesting to watch. Or a marathon that can last several hours. It is the
stuff of comentators, the material they use to hype a race before it takes
place and which makes you interested enough to watch it for the duration and to
suffer the interviews afterwards.
And this is what rowing needs if it is to be made appealing for the public on
TV. The racing itself does not need to be altered at all. Look at the hype
before the boat race and observe what interest there is in that, more often
than not the most boring race of the whole rowing year. The last couple of
years are the exceptions that prove that rule.
Far too often, on BBC coverage anyway, we find ourelves watching the last 1000m
or even 500m of a 2000m race and it is cut dead after the finish. No hype and
nothing about the personalities. Even the drama of the full 2000m race is
lost. I sometimes wonder why they bother.
And so it is at domestic regattas. Simple boring anouncements of who is
racing. Who has won the last race. etc. If people want to make rowing
interesting to watch they have to do a lot of work researching the participants
of every race and drawing to the attention of the public any possible cause for
needle that may pertain between the combatants.
"Ah," I here you say, "but what about the boring announcements at Henley Royal
Regatta. There is plenty of interest there, isn't there?" Well actually no
there isn't in the case of the visiting public who are just there because they
have an excuse for a big fancy dress party. And the rowing fraternity that
attends is usually very well informed by the press beforehand. Besides the
dead pan announcements at HRR are part of what makes Henley what it is. The
announcement before the semi-final of the Stewards this year that the
Australians are the Olympic Champions and that Leander are the World Champions
will go down in history as a classic example of the British talent for
understatement.
To sum up, rowing need not be any more boring to watch than any other sport.
All you need is hype before and interviews after.
Steve Walker, Grosvenor Rowing Club, Chester, England
row...@bu.edu
Dave LeFebvre
Michael Sullivan
>
> Of course its boring to watch. So what? We're not watching, we're
> participating. We do it because we love moving boats and killing ourselves in
> the process. We don't care what onlookers think, do we? It's a sport for
> participants not for watchers.
>
> Anyway all races are boring to watch if you do not know anything about the
> personalities, where they come from, what their ambitions are, whom they have
I agree with your comments, but I would make it a broader
statement that MOST athletic competitions require some sort
of context to make it interesting. Are horse races all that
exciting to watch? Nah, you see about as much of the race as
rowing. Oh, you got $20 on 'Brooks Flyer' at 15 to 1??
GO BROOKSIE BABEEEEE!! FLY BABY FLY!!
There are things that are inherently interesting to watch, but
mostly because there's a chance of damage, explosions, injury, or
mayhem.
Thinking, though, that it's up to TV announcers gives
us the last couple Oly telecasts and the endless parade of 'Up Close
And Personal' soap opera tragedies... yawn. I mean is it a
REQUIREMENT to survive a car accident or polio to be an interesting
Olympian??
'Up next, the orphan who has a chance at making the finals!'
Mike
LBGraves
coaches regardless of whether there's a TV camera trained on them. Still, good
TV coverage eventually means more rowers, better competition, more sponsorship
(perhaps with better funding for training) and so on.
It would benefit the rowing community to figure out ways to make televised
races as spectator-friendly as possible. Most races won't ever be televised,
but when regatta organizers or coaches are offered the opportunity to work with
journalists (print or broadcast), they might be prepared to:
1. Provide a short history. "This is the third time Team A and Team B have
confronted each other, with Team A winning the last three outings. However,
etc." or "This regatta is the premier west coast regatta, held annually since
19xx. The collegiate winner here has gone on to win the national title in each
of the last, etc."
2. Are there interesting stories about any of the individual rowers? "The
stroke of Team B is the brother of the coach of Team A." "Athlete X made the
varsity for the first time this year as a senior because..." "Team C has
changed its line-up four times in the last two weeks, apparently because..."
3. Briefly explain matters that you know, but the journalist doesn't. This
might be as elementary as pointing out that the seat slides, or how a cox box
works, on up to explaining probable strategies that various crews might employ
in the upcoming race (i.e., what a settle is, how high the initial stroke rate
might be, etc.)
4. Think in advance about what you're willing to do to facilitate broadcast
coverage. Allow a small mike on board to capture the coxing? What about
cameras? (I know of a recent request to allow a diver with an underwater
camera at the start.)
Leslie Graves
Jon
: If men's tennis needs a rule change to make it more interesting to
: watch, shouldn't we do the same with rowing to make it appeal more?
Warning - I'm gonna go on about this one.
Look how boring Formula One motor racing is to watch, and look to see how
many millions it pulls in each year in television revenue. It is a borin
procession of a sport, yet peopel watch it cos they feel some sort of
affinity with the car drivers, perhaps cos they reckon their experirences
driving on the roads matches what the Formula 1 drivers attain on the
track (this is, of course, absolute rubbish).
What rowing suffers from is an image crisis, I reckon, People just don't
know enough about it nor identify with people who row. In the UK people
perceive it as an elitist sport, perhaps cos of the Boat Race and Henley.
This is totally wrong IMHO, but it is why the sport is not yet taking off
here.
Rowing is certainly not boring to watch. You've got it all wrong - YOU
might find it oring to watch, but compared ot many other sports that are
alledgedly 'interesting', it is positively bursting with excitement as a
spectator sport.
You have to compare like with like, so no comparisons with football,
tennis or boxing.
: The only thing that I can think of it to make the courses shorter, or
: the boats slower.
One shortens the race and the other legnthens it. I don't see your point
here. Surely the race takes just as long to run, but not any closer.
Anyway, making a course shorter will only make it more of a foregone
conclcusion as to who will win from the outset and not give a team the
chance to fight back.
: Before lots of people post replies saying, "but what about the 1964
: olympic 2x final..." consider that most races are not so exciting.
You haven't been to enough regatsas with really good racing then. I always
find the racing each year at Durham Regatta in the north of England really
exciting.
Jon
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
j...@durge.org
http://www.durge.org/~jon/
bowman2x
compare rowing to "games" like football and baseball. In terms of
marketability, I think sports is about accessibility. Even those fat
older men who live for American football probably once played the game,
and still retain that "armchair quarterback" mentality. Kids love to
participate--and some pretend they are sports heroes. Certain sports
are very accessible like basketball in America, and therefore kids can
instantly indentify with Michael Jordan--anyone who has shot a ball gets
more excited because they know something about the game. Someone who
has never rowed cannot really understand all the hype--nor appreciate
the athleticism and dedication it takes. How many kids can afford a
racing shell? Same with kayaking--great sport but "spectator friendly"?
Another sport I played suffered from the same affliction and that game
has PLENTY of action: Lacrosse. I mean, look at golf. God, how boring
can you get, not to mention not very spectator friendly (based on
excitement). But the sport has a wide participation base and therefore
a large audience.
Basically, the only advantage I see to getting rowing on TV is to have
more money thrown into the sport, giving more kids the chance to try it.
And that is good. But it also means that some really unsavory elements
might get tossed in there, too. I'd almost rather keep it a small
community, avoiding all the hoopla. But whatever happens, the sport is
great in itself, the traditions involved, the lessons learned, the
beauty and grace. These are what keep me coming back. I can leave all
the hype.
My 69 cents.
Cheers
--J
Neil Selby
It's all a matter of opinion, isn't it? Personally I find baseball,
basketball and american football hugely boring, but I suppose that's
because I know nothing about it. I guess Americans feel the same about
cricket and football.
It's true, people do have to 'identify' with the competitors. I think
rowing is beginning to get a higher profile in the UK - because of
Steve Redgrave, if nobody else.
As for the races being too long, well, people watch 10,000m races in
athletics and they're twice as long.
And the Tour de France - millions of people watch that despite the
fact that for 85% of the time nothing at all happens, and it goes on
for weeks!
Get more people rowing so that they identify with the sport, and they'll
watch it, I guess.
Neil
Jim Kavitsky
Michael Sullivan <gc....@forsythe.stanford.edu> wrote:
>
>There are things that are inherently interesting to watch, but
>mostly because there's a chance of damage, explosions, injury, or
>mayhem.
You may be onto something here. Maybe if we equipped the coxes with
small catapults for launching "greek fire" onto opposing crews we
could get more TV coverage. Large metallic rams or rotating saw
blades instead of a bow ball would make bumps racing more exciting
as well. Given the American population's fascination with professional
wrestling, you would think that rowing's TV ratings could be increased
if the object of the sport was to destroy and sink your opponents boat.
Jim Kavitsky
3M Health Information Systems
Mike Nuttall
I don't know what Formula One racing you are watching but it is by no
means boring, quite the opposite in my opinion.
Bowman 2x
>olympic 2x final..." consider that most races are not so exciting.
I don't know about the 1964 olympic 2x final, but the 1984 Olympic 2x final
with Brad Lewis and the stroke, whose name I don't recall, was pretty exciting,
...... from last to first. Oh, well!
BTW, I like the staggered start idea. For once during a race, I'd like to see
some other boats without having to turn around. Hurts my neck and I get out of
sync. Talk about the agony of defeat!
Walter Martindale
> I don't know about the 1964 olympic 2x final, but the 1984 Olympic 2x
final
> with Brad Lewis and the stroke, whose name I don't recall, was pretty
exciting,
> ...... from last to first. Oh, well!
>
Enquist. (the stroke)
Yep, helluva race. But, it _was_ 14 years ago. Surely there has been
another exciting race?
Walter
igor kraev
made illegal in Boston. Out where I live there are still old grandstands
left from those days.
maybe betting should be reinstalled. Maybe then we will have proffesional
rowing and everything that goes with proffesional sports.......
Michael Sullivan wrote in message <35D961...@forsythe.stanford.edu>...
>PicaJet wrote:
>>
>> Of course its boring to watch. So what? We're not watching, we're
>> participating. We do it because we love moving boats and killing
ourselves in
>> the process. We don't care what onlookers think, do we? It's a sport
for
>> participants not for watchers.
>>
>> Anyway all races are boring to watch if you do not know anything about
the
>> personalities, where they come from, what their ambitions are, whom they
have
>
>I agree with your comments, but I would make it a broader
>statement that MOST athletic competitions require some sort
>of context to make it interesting. Are horse races all that
>exciting to watch? Nah, you see about as much of the race as
>rowing. Oh, you got $20 on 'Brooks Flyer' at 15 to 1??
>
>GO BROOKSIE BABEEEEE!! FLY BABY FLY!!
>
>There are things that are inherently interesting to watch, but
>mostly because there's a chance of damage, explosions, injury, or
>mayhem.
>
M.Schram
I'm just a recreative rower, and I love watching other people rowing.
It's nice rowing on the Rotte river and the Maas near Rotterdam!
I wonder if this message works, I'm not an experienced newsgroup member,
just trying tonight.
Richard Packer
I can't think of a magic answer, but having experienced bumps racing
first-hand (both competing and spectating), I'm sure that would draw in the
crowds. Take a look at Oxford on the Saturday of Eights week. UK rowers
may remember the Leyland-DAF Power Sprints - an attempt to televise rowing,
but which met with only limited success. So, how about turning the Head of
the River Race into a giant bumps race??? After all, most Formula 1 viewers
only watch it for the crashes...
SkinDay
networks don't seem to have the familiarity with the sport necessary to cover
it or because the viewing public doesn't know enough about the sport to
understand it. Both of these problems were exemplified in NBC's 1996 Olympic
rowing college. The one experienced commentator, Bob Ernst, had to try to
comment on the level of the "average" viewer because the only viewers that
could be expected to understand any kind of advanced commentary were rowing
types (a vast minority in NBC's viewing public), so most of the commentary
wound up being basic stuff one would learn novice year rather than the in-depth
analysis you hear at football or baseball games, simply because the audiences
there are expected to be more familiar with the sport. I found the CBC rowing
coverage in Atlanta vastly more exciting simply because that network seemed to
know what it was doing. I'm pretty sure I recall the second NBC commentator in
Atlanta asking the question "well Bob, just how necessary is it that the rowers
are in sync anyway?" Another example: on Fox sports coverage of 1998
windermere cup, one "color" segment of the broadcast from on shore consisted of
a Fox news personality who didn't seem to know anything about rowing trying to
explain the purpose of sliding seats, riggers, and the coxswain. It's no
wonder most people find rowing races boring to watch- they simply don't
understand it.
cynthja
> >There are things that are inherently interesting to watch, but
> >mostly because there's a chance of damage, explosions, injury, or
> >mayhem.
> >
can tell you've never coxed a novice race before :)
Geoffrey S Knauth
>I don't know about the 1964 olympic 2x final, but the 1984 Olympic 2x final
>with Brad Lewis and the stroke, whose name I don't recall, was pretty exciting
The name of the other rower is Paul Enquist. Definitely half of that
very winning famous double. Less well known only because he hasn't
written about his success.
--
Geoffrey S. Knauth <gkn...@bbn.com> <http://world.std.com/~gsk/>
Lynne McKeon
I actually had a surprising experience last year. I was talking with a
software engineer at my company, definitely a non-athlete, and somehow
the subject of rowing came up. I was shocked, no more like SHOCKED!, to
discover that she had gone to the Atlanta Olympics and thought that
rowing was by far the best sport. She had gone to considerable trouble
to get tickets and get to the venue and she had a pretty good knowledge
of the sport for a non-participant.
I have always thought that a key to increasing the interest in rowing,
especially at the Olympics level, was to try and generate some
"human-interest": who beat who over the summer, who are the favorites &
under-dogs, where does Xeno get his hair cut, etc. There was a little
bit on Silken Laumman, but nothing on, say, the Dutch men's 8 throwing
down the gauntlet before the finals.
Just my 2c.
Pat
ra...@my-dejanews.com
1xA and 2xA (men).
For the races on sunday I'm looking for international mixed combinations, to
form a 2x or a 4x. Availability of boats is probably ok. Let me know if
you're in for some fast combinations!
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Bengy
I thought the mayhem part covered this quite well, who needs lane
numbers anyway.
The best I've seen in a novie race was in fours where both on bow side
caught a crab and flipped the boat. I later found that the water temp
was around 10 degrees (probably explains why the cox wasn't amused).
The explosions one has me confused, are you folks in the north reverting
to french tactics aka blowing up of the rainbow warrior (a greenpiece
ship in Auckland harbour)???
as for the injuries that is usually the coxwains pride that has the most
injury (@#$^% being made to cox a novie crew again).
Bengy
SkinDay
crews would help out TV coverage of rowing a lot. However, I'm sick of the
kind of thing the networks always do every Olympics where they tell about every
family member who has died in some horrible accident in the athlete's life,
follow them around while they do their shopping, show them at home in some
small town, etc. That kind of "human-interest" story could be done without
(kind of what you were hinting at with "where does Xeno get his hair cut). I
think a lot of the excitement of rowing really does come from knowing the
competitors and the stakes of the race. Almost any sort of athletic
competition (with the probable exception of car racing) is considerably more
boring when you don't have a favorite to root for. Another idea to make rowing
more exciting to watch would be to put radio microphones in all the boats to
broadcast all the grunting from the rowers and demonic channeling by the
coxswains in the heat of a race (although if you did this on network TV, it
would probably have to be time-delayed and censored, if the coxswain were
anything like those at my club).
HaroldBuck
Cox-Cam
Bow-Cam
Oar-Cam
-Harold
cynthja
>
> > >There are things that are inherently interesting to watch, but
> > >mostly because there's a chance of damage, explosions, injury, or
> > >mayhem.
> >
> > can tell you've never coxed a novice race before :)
>
> I thought the mayhem part covered this quite well, who needs lane
> numbers anyway.
>
> The best I've seen in a novie race was in fours where both on bow side
> caught a crab and flipped the boat. I later found that the water temp
> was around 10 degrees (probably explains why the cox wasn't amused).
I've done better than that, ever seen two, let me repeat TWO, fours flip
in the same race within 100metres of each other, neither coxswain was
very impressed, although I did think it was rather funny at the time,
who says rowing is boring to watch?
I think the explosion thing refers to when you have an official's
speedie too busy looking at shells than at spitposts. The funniest
thing I've ever seen! (Although I don't think the ump was French :-)
luv cynthja (aka GOD)
cynthja
cox-cam now that's a novel idea, just imagine the girls lining up to see
what the cox of the national men's team sees of stroke every day ;]
Koster J.A.
I have three ideas, borrowed from Arena Football's "Helmet-Cam":Cox-Cam
Bow-Cam
Oar-Cam
-- Don't attempt thinking for others before you can think for yourself. http://www.cs.vu.nl/~a3aan/
row...@bu.edu
> I have three ideas, borrowed from Arena Football's "Helmet-Cam":
>
> Cox-Cam
> Bow-Cam
> Oar-Cam
>
> -Harold
Or the underwater upwards pointed camera angle they use in swimming and
diving....
Oh, wait that would nevwer work. You need CLEAR water for that and I
can't think of many places where that is the case....
ptera_...@rocketmail.com
This much is fact:
1. Rowing is hugely boring to watch and will remain so no matter what you try
with camera angles and race length.
2. No-one is going to get rich and famous rowing (see 1.)
3. Rowing is largely free of doping and other scandals precisely because it is
not a big-money sport.
4. I wouldn't want to trade places with cycling, swimming, track, football or
any other dope-and-dollars sport, merely to have a lot of slobs watch me on
TV.
5. The sport is plenty good enough for competitors as it is. Let's not change
it.
Jeff Moag
In article <6reha3$lob$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>,
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Alex Machi
is now? I've been disturbed in reading FISA president Denis Oswald's
recommendations to increase exposure to rowing by reducing the number of
events staged at the World Championships, even changing the length of the
standard race, all in the name of making the sport more "saleable" to the
media and the general public. His campaign was first broached to the
public over 2 years ago and I could not understand why more of us didn't
protest such blasphemy. What is rowing for? To enjoy the sport or to get
a fat telvision contract to swell FISA's bank account? Do we hold the
Worlds in order to allow talented, hard working athletes an opportunity to
compete with others of a like mind from all over the world or to package a
neat 90 minute TV broadcast once a year that will attract the half-hearted
interest of the masses glued to their sofas and, hence, advertiser's
dollars? Of course we're under the gun with the Olympic Committee to
increase diversity and reduce squad size but at our own World
Championships (and ALL other regattas) we should be trying to achieve the
greatest athlete participation possible.
Who gives a rat's ass if those who don't know anything about the
sport are bored watching it on the tube? I'm personally sorry that it is
so difficult to see an entire race but wouldn't alter the nature of the
sport I love in order to get someone to televise it, espcially if it meant
that I wouldn't be able to get a spot at the finish line to see our boats
cross! Let's bring back the bleacher trains that followed races in
progress years ago (ala the Harvard/Yale race on the Thames) and get a
good dose of diesel fumes.
- Alex
edgar cove
writes
>who says rowing is boring to watch?
>
>I think the explosion thing refers to when you have an official's
>speedie too busy looking at shells than at spitposts. The funniest
>thing I've ever seen! (Although I don't think the ump was French :-)
Hey Cynthja. could you please provide a translation?
--
edgar-(remove nospam from return address for e-mail)
Heyhoey
Isn't the cox cam used in really bad Porno's?
GHP
Heyhoey wrote in message
<199809011737...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>Greetings,
>
>Isn't the cox cam used in really bad Porno's?
Boy,
Now I've heard EVERYTHING! ; )
Gary
James Matthews-Paul
M-P
Circe Nightshade
Heyhoey wrote in message
<199809011737...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>Greetings,
>
>Isn't the cox cam used in really bad Porno's?
lol!
That reminds me of our school rowing t-shirts..."The harder you stroke, the
faster we come." I can't believe that they let us wear those, and
the..."Eight big men. (and their 110 lb. cox)" shirts. ;->
*~*Circe Nightshade*~*
Smrdrm
That T-shirt slogan is hilarious.
lewis...@my-dejanews.com
bird mascot at basket ball games, the barrel clown at rodeos, etc. Between
races we could have some good entertainment like trick water skiing, hang
gliding behind a speed boat, or a SCUBA diver filling up helium ballons
underwater and releasing them as the shells pass by the finish line.
I still like the idea of having the seat slide action operate a bilge pump
and have holes in the bottom of the shell. The cox can then squirt water at
the crowd and at other persons. If a shell crew doesn't row, the boat sinks
!
Richard Lewis
lewis...@my-dejanews.com
Circe Nightshade
Smrdrm wrote in message <19980916214301...@ng135.aol.com>...
>
>That T-shirt slogan is hilarious.
Well, we try.
I was so frustrated with the novice freshmen rowers on my boat (who seemed
like they _wanted_ to crab) that I made my own t-shirt. On the back, it
said, "Set it up or DIE." Needless to say, we don't have that problem
anymore.
Now it's just the coxin who forgets that everything she says can be heard on
the coxbox. "Like, omigod, Jeremy said that he wasn't going out with
Jackie, that slut, but...." you get the idea. ;-)
*~*Circe Nightshade*~*
Lane Phillips
"Are you port or starboard?"
Bengy
About the worst call I've ever done was "bring in bow four, dropping out
stern four" in a eight. Slight problem, the bow four were the ones
already rowing.
Duh!!
Bengy