Resolute vs. Millenium--whats the story?
RESOLUTESM
Millenium may be black but it's not an inexpensive Resolute. Yes, it uses
unidirectional carbon--a THIRD less than Res. And carbon is tricky stuff, you
can't just slap some in a mold, cook it and call it a day. You need a
workforce experienced with the stuff, you need to use ALL the components of
the system--uni. carbon needs to be adhered to the honeycomb with a third
material, in this case a very expensive material. Resolute has it (because
Resolute builder Eric Goetz has been experimenting with these materials on
America's Cup boats for many years). Millenium doesn't. That's one reason
the Mill. is $5200 cheaper. It's also the reason that a Millenium less than a
year old has already developed significant spots of delamination (what does
this suggest about longevity?). The Mill. is cheaper. too because V. used its
old D-hull rather than develop a new shape to take advantage of increased
stiffness. And what about stiffness? Mill. IS 25% stiffer than Ultralite,
this is Vespoli's own claim and Resolute doesn't dispute it. Resolute,
however is over 200% stiffer than Ultralite. You do the arithmatic.
Look at the boats, Resolute is true Monocoque (frameless) construction. Mill.
uses the same old frame system as all other boats. Sure, frames have been the
standard for decades and have served crews beautifully. But frame boats lose
stiffness. Pick up the bow of a Mill. Shake. Note the degree of stiffness.
Do the same with a Res. Case closed. They ain't the same boat by a long
shot. Come to the convention in Hartford and see the difference for yourself
(and let's hope Vespoli is willing to bring their black 8).
Claus Wolter
I just don't get all this black boat stuff.
Resolute is stiffer than Millenium which is stiffer than a
regular Vespoli ultralight......SO WHAT!!!
Where is it written that hull stiffness equates with hull
speed.
If a Resolute is 200% stiffer than a Vespoli, can we expect
it to be 200% faster? I doubt it.
What was UW rowing at men's IRA's and Women's NCAA's? Iknow
the women were rowing an Empacher, with UMass rowing a
regular Vespoli (not a millenium) and Princeton was 3rd in a
Vespoli too! Brown rowing in a Resolute was 4th. (I guess
it's a good thing they were rowing in a Resolute that was
200% stiffer otherwise who knows how far back they would
have been)....(no disrespect intended to Brown or their
coach)
Let's get some engineers weighing in on this. Where do you
need the stiffness? In the hull, in the rigger? How much
stiffness do you need? And if you do make any claims, do
you have research to support them?
Claus Wolter
Head Coach, Connecticut College
cf...@conncoll.edu
ps Conn crews don't row Vespolis or Resolutes and right now
we're taking a close look at Hudson.
BilMcGowan
Absolutely NO offense intended, since I'm quite fond of this Resolute rep. (for
that matter, all of the Re$o-LOOT gang). However, all the reps. I know that
post on r.s.r. have headers with their names and addresses on their messages
so everyone who reads their postings know that the info. is coming from a rep.
Now.....let me guess...... "resol...@aol.com"......?? Could that be the
lovely and hard-working Mrs. Sara McCann?! :o) Fess-up, Sara! :o) Now
you'll have to come up with a clever slogan like Alex Selvig's, as too should
I. Maybe my slogan should be "In yellow, GOLD"?
Looks like you've been doing some site visits to Bristol, Sara. Sure wish I
could visit "MY" factory as conveniently as you can visit Resoute's. Lucky
you.... :o) Best regards, Bill
Bill McGowan
EMPACHERUSA
Sales & Service
5 Gerrish Street
Brighton, MA 02135-1704
USA
Office Phone & FAX: 001.617.787.1177
Home Phone 001.617.254-3233
James Moore
Claus Wolter (cf...@conncoll.edu) wrote:
: I just don't get all this black boat stuff.
: Resolute is stiffer than Millenium which is stiffer than a
: regular Vespoli ultralight......SO WHAT!!!
: Where is it written that hull stiffness equates with hull
: speed.
: If a Resolute is 200% stiffer than a Vespoli, can we expect
: it to be 200% faster? I doubt it.
The amount of additional speed that the increased stiffness will get you is
debateable. It probably makes less difference than how the boat feels to the crew.
A crew will row fastest in the boat it is most comfortable. period. Given two boats
that have identical feel to them, go with the stiffer one if you can afford it.
While the resolute may theoretically be the faster boat, if crews are used to rowing
Vespolis they will go faster in Vespolis, at least until there are enough Resolutes
in a boathouse to develop a comfort factor.
Where I see the stiffness and design differences paying off for Resolute is in
durability. With no ribs and a monocoque a Resolute that is now 200% stiffer than a
Vespoli will likely be at least that much stiffer in 3,5,7+ years. Translation more
durable boats, higher resale value for top end collegiate programs, longer shelf life
for smaller schools and clubs.
Plastic boats may be "stiff enough" straight out of the mold - 4+ years with alot of
rowing, if I'm buying it it's gonna be serious carbon fibre, or, yes, it's true, good
old wood. Ever rowed in a plastic boat after a serious accident? It just ain't the
same, generally not even close. A good ole Cedar speeder that's well maintained....
Hell, I've rowed in Pocock's older than I am - They were pretty heavy but they were
solid and I'd put them up against a 5+ year old plastic boat.
My big question with unidirectional C-fibre is its repairability. It's probably
harder for the novice coxswain who runs up on a dock, into a buoy, or over a
submerged Pinto to damage in the first place, but if (s)he does, can a boatman or a
coach repair it? Neczy are you out there to answer this one?
--
Jim
Claus Wolter
Jim,
Thank you for taking the time to weigh in on the
carbon-fiber/stiffness question.
I have been told that carbon fiber is actually quite brittle
and does not necessarily have the impact resistance of
kevlar (Empachers) or even fiber glass impregnated with
epoxy resin. Is that true? This would definitely have some
implications for crews prone to bumping into things.
I would say that durability is of some concern to college
coaches nowadays, but at what cost. Ask a coach at a high
end intercollegiate program, where s/he can afford to buy a
new boat every year, what is more important, performance or
durability?
How should Resolute be marketing their boats? From a
speed/performance perspective or from one of durability?
If accepted practise for most solvent programs is to turn
boats over every 2, 4, or 6 years, then who wants to row in
a Resolute that may have stood the test of time (eg
outliving all Vespolis, Dirigos and Empachers in terms of
original stiffness) but has been sitting in the boathouse
for 10 years. Which boat will young intercollegiate rowers
want to be sitting in? The brand new Hudson or Vespoli, or
the 10 year old, albeit durable Resolute.
I can probably buy close to 2 regular Dirigos, Vespolis or
Hudsons for the cost of 1 Resolute. (this is assuming 8's)
How many fours, singles or pairs could I buy?
The Dreher riggers while very stiff are not necessarily
standard equipment and boy oh boy they are a pain to adjust.
I heard the US men's rowed a Vespoli Millenium this year.
Did they row it at the Worlds when they won? (I think they
did...I can't say for a fact) But I had heard they were
rowing it in Europe and since it was black, everyone thought
it was a Resolute.
Moira TeeKing
This is amazing -- what is resolute saying?
>
> Millenium may be black but it's not an inexpensive Resolute. Yes, it uses unidirectional carbon--a THIRD less than Res.
I gues that is why Brown's Resolte weighed 222 lbs at the IRA, and the
sectional boat Vespo made for the US Team were at FISA weight.
> You need a workforce experienced with the stuff, you need to use ALL the components of the system--uni. carbon needs to be adhered to the honeycomb with a third material, in this case a very expensive material.
Wait -- Vespoli has been building boats since 1980 and Vespo has got a
guy who started building boats in England more than twenty five years
ago -- Resolute just starting building boats a year ago. Geotz has
build some nice sail boats, but what does that have to do with racing
shells.
> the Mill. is $5200 cheaper.
andf the US Men won a gold medal in it. Enough said!
> The Mill. is cheaper. too because V. used its old D-hull rather than >develop a new shape to take advantage of increased stiffness. And >what about stiffness?
Ok - Vespoli's D Hull was designed by a Naval Aritech, tested by some
hydrodynamist and proven in a tow tank with pitch and serge. I doubt
that Resolute did the same, if they did they never would have made a
boat with a truncated stern.
and let's talk about reliabilty, how many times did the National teams
seats break, the riggers not adjust, and footstrechers break. I know
that Res. can't claim the same reliabilty.
>Mill. IS 25% stiffer than Ultralite, this is Vespoli's own claim and >Resolute doesn't dispute it.
> Mill. uses the same old frame system as all other boats. Sure, frames > have been the standard for decades and have served crews beautifully.
And I think Vespoli is the only one with a PATENTED hull design.
I'll buy a boat for $20,00 that has a gold medal from worlds and a
silver and bronze from Juniors rather than a 30,000 overweight, and not
so great track record boat anyday.
Dennis
Student
James Moore wrote:
> It's probably
> harder for the novice coxswain who runs up on a dock, into a buoy, or over a
> submerged Pinto to damage in the first place, but if (s)he does, can a boatman or a
> coach repair it?
>Neczy are you out there to answer this one?
Which of the Neczypors are you referring to???
RESOLUTESM
Tom Neczypor is the hands-on guy in charge of Resolute construction. His phone
number is 401-253-7384 in Bristol.