Coaching Glove recommendations

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gareth price

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Feb 2, 2010, 3:44:43 PM2/2/10
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I get really cold hands and feet when I'm coaching at the mo. I'm
wearing lots of layers.....

Helly Hansen base layer top and bottom
100 weight microfleece
200 weight fleece
Helly hansen fjord jacket
Ron hill tracksters.
Helly hansen fjord Trousers.
thermal socks
2.5 Tog socks
Sealskins knee length socks.

I need recommendations for gloves that are warm, water and windproof
and any ideas how I can keep my feet warm?

Thanks

Gareth

IPS

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Feb 2, 2010, 6:40:29 PM2/2/10
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Anne Rogers

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Feb 2, 2010, 9:00:48 PM2/2/10
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I don't have any glove recommendations, but you don't mention what
shoes/boots you are wearing, I've found that extra socks sometimes make
your feet colder if you don't have equivalently bigger footwear,
presumably because the circulation gets cut off somewhere.

Keeping warm is down to circulation, the better it is, the harder it is
to cut it off or slow it down to the point of feeling too cold.

Heads stay warm because they have bigger blood vessels, so even if you
have plenty of hair, a hat really does help, even if your head doesn't
feel cold! Same with a scarf depending on the neckline of your clothes.

Keep wiggling your toes and fingers when you can...

Anne

david.h...@aea.be

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Feb 3, 2010, 3:52:12 AM2/3/10
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Wear tennis-style wristbands, they will stop the heat loss from the
inside of your wrist where the arteries are very close to the surface
- hence, the blood reaching your fingers is still warm. I was quite
comfortable using them at the wekend when the rest of my crew were
faffing around with gloves and pogies.

Stamps

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Feb 3, 2010, 6:42:52 AM2/3/10
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On Feb 3, 4:52 pm, "david.hender...@aea.be" <david.hender...@aea.be>
wrote:

Oh my god, does this simple thing really work? I have now moved to
warmer climes, but when rowing in the UK in winter I used to have a
nightmare with my hands getting cold, not being able to feel the blade
etc. I tried pogies and they did work pretty well, but I was never a
great fan and could still get numb hands. It was worse at the start of
races - I would stay warm during the warm up and inevitable hanging
around before the start of a head race, wear gloves or whatever, but
then as soon as the race started my hands would go from warm to
freezing and numb within about 5 strokes, affecting my rowing
(presumably as the blood all rushed to the bigger muscles?) and it
would often take 5-10 mins to get feeling back.

In fact, some people actually stop rowing here (Hong Kong) in winter
as they think it is too cold. It drops to a rather pleasant 10 degrees
at worst, perfect rowing weather really. Summer is far worse and is
when we should actually stop rowing, 30+ degrees, blazing sun and 95%
humidity is hard work.

Jake

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Feb 3, 2010, 8:31:45 AM2/3/10
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I had this problem on a recent ski trip where it was down to -15 on
some days. I soon found that mittens are better than gloves as all the
fingers are together to pass warmth to and from each other. It's also
easy to ball up your hands into fists inside the mittens when you
aren't using your fingers and easier to use gel handwarmers in them if
you can be bothered with the faffing and recharging of handwarmers.
Mittens can be problematic if you have to do anything fiddly such as
undoing mooring warps etc. Fairly large waterproof outer mittens
allowing thin woolen stretch gloves underneath do the job for me. That
way you still have inner gloves on when you take the outer mittens off
to do fiddly things.

The problem I found is that sometimes your hands get so cold due to
inactivity, even when they are well insulated theres not enough heat
for the glove insulation to insulate so even though they are dry and
insulated, they go numb. Too numb to wiggle back to life sometimes.
The solution here is vigorous arm twirling. I find that circling the
straight arms as fast as possible in opposite directions works best
for me, and 2 minutes of it is enough to get the warm blood back into
completely imobile frozen hands. It's a simple case of centrifugal
force so the faster you twirl the warmer they get and it helps get the
body back warm too. Be careful of losing a mitten to centrifugal
force, and hitting the launch's instrument binnacle with a fast moving
freezing cold hand is best avoided too. It also looks to an over-
zealous authority vaguely similar to the international signal of
maritime distress but used with care its a technique that doesn't half
warm your hands up.

In terms of cold hands for oarsmen, there are alternative solutions to
pogies which aren't much use if they get wet.
The problem that really needs addressing is the rubber covered carbon
tube the oarsman holds onto conducts a lot of heat away from the hand.
This is the part we have control over concerning materials, heat
conductivity etc.without affecting rowing feel etc.
One solution would be adapting the existing technology of rechargeable
heat gel for scull handles. 20 seconds for the handles in the
microwave before an outing and they would remain toasty warm for up to
2 hours. The handle parts would need to be removed quickly by snap
clips from the rest of the oar for heating so it would be a quite
expensive aftermarket product as it would have to include the carbon
handle and secure attachment method (non metallic microwave safe
spring clips) and require different products to fit different oar
brands.
I experimented with this a couple of times a few winters ago using
cheap rechargeable gel handwarmers pushed up inside the end of the
normal C2 hollow carbon handle. It was warm with no problems of the
hadwarmers falling down the looms, but the faffing with the 2 Philips
screws to take the adjustable length ends on and off every time to
recharge the gel packs soon cured me of this. I took the idea no
further as the rowing market is too small to warrant expenditure on
patents, and I expect it will have been done before, if not by rowers,
probably cyclists or someone else who has to hold onto cold tubular
handles in their work or recreation.

However, I still had the cold hands problem. In the end I think I
might have alleviated it slightly by filling in the adjustable scull
ends with closed cell foam. (I had noted that even days old expired
gel packs left in the ends seemed to make the handles feel a bit
warmer). I hammered rolled up lengths of camping mat foam into the
handle ends. The weight of this foam is negligible. On frosty
mornings I note that the whole of my sculls are frosted up along their
hollow length but the ends with the foam in them are often not. They
feel a bit warmer to initially touch and then row with, but obviously
only a slight (subjective?) improvement over standard not toasty warm
like the gel packs were. I think it's a case of your hands are able to
bring up the small solid end section to warmth more easily, but when
you hold a hollow handle more of the heat is dissipated away down the
loom, or your hand is having to bring up the whole, relatively large
column of air in the full length of the loom to temperature. Of
course, if the foam I shoved in the handles had a higher score for
heat retention, and I could be bothered to take my sculls indoors
overnight the results would be better, but that wouldn't be changing
the permanent physical property of the oar to make it warmer to hold
all the time, just heating it up before use, like the gel packs.

I would be interested to hear from anyone more scientifically minded
whether filling the ends of hollow scull handles with closed cell foam
would be likely to make them warmer to row with in winter, as I'm
still open to the suggestion that this was a figment of my
imagination. If a cavity wall insulated wall conducts less heat away
from a home than a cavity wall, perhaps a foam filled handle does
similar things for a cavity filled oar which is conducting heat away
from a hand?

freeheelfunhog

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Feb 3, 2010, 10:38:33 AM2/3/10
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Glacier Gloves for hands. (see, for example, http://gearjunkie.com/gear-review-glacier-gloves)

Use something like NRS Workboot wetshoes for feet (http://
www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.asp?pfid=2338&deptid=1169)

Hydroskin (that's a brand from NRS) socks, shirt, pants for even more
warmth. (see: http://kayak.nrsweb.com/display.php?p=Q&ts=custom&w=hydroskin).
You would wear these instead of some of your fleece.

Torsten

PS I use a lot of these products for winter kayaking and rafting.
They're functional (they move well) and they help you float if you
happen to fall in the water.


On Feb 2, 12:44 pm, gareth price <gareth_pric...@hotmail.com> wrote:

carolinetu

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Feb 3, 2010, 11:46:01 AM2/3/10
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Where are you coaching? Obviously somewhere a lot colder than
Weybridge!

I find fleece-lined walking gloves (Peter Storm) are adequately warm
and waterproof, but I don't suffer particularly from cold hands. If
your feet are still cold with 3 pairs of socks, then either your socks/
shoes are too tight as Anne suggests, or you have a serious
circulation problem. I'm told that a layer of aluminium cooking foil
between the socks is good, but I haven't tried it personally. A hat
is essential, and preferably a scarf as well.

I also recommend a good breakfast (porridge!), join your rowers in
their warm-up, and don't sit still too long.

Caroline

Walter Martindale

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Feb 3, 2010, 12:10:07 PM2/3/10
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You don't mention head cover...
Are you coaching from a boat? If so, the water-safety people
recommend against heavy boots in case of immersion, but I think that
if you're wearing a properly functioning life vest you get both the
floatation (and the boots go to near-neutral buoyancy) in the water,
and another insulating layer above the water.
Coaching in cold weather, get a Mustang survival (or equivalent) full-
length marine survival suit. They're made with a 6mm or more
thickness of wetsuit material as lining. Even after their certificate
expires (5 years after manufacture) they keep you warm on a cold
winter coaching day. If it's too cold for one of those, it's too cold
to row.

The Mustang suit, a wool hat with "thinsulate" lining, or a waterproof
sou-wester hat in a wet day, wool sweater(s) underneath, merino
thermal underwear, regular trousers (although wool works very well),
mitts, and loose shoes with thick wool socks should work.

http://www.mustangsurvival.com/products/category.php?t=2
I'm on my second one - I think it's roughly equivalent to the
Integrity Deluxe (MS-195)

Whatever you do, though, you need to make sure your head is covered.
Major source of heat loss.

HTH
Walter

ledge

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Feb 3, 2010, 7:45:53 PM2/3/10
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On Feb 4, 6:10 am, Walter Martindale <wmart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Whatever you do, though, you need to make sure your head is covered.
> Major source of heat loss.
>
> HTH
> Walter

Maybe....but maybe that's a bit of a myth (that we've all propagated
at some time or another) that arose due to suspect experimental
method.
See http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour

Laurence

Walter Martindale

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Feb 4, 2010, 1:15:56 PM2/4/10
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> Seehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbe...
>
> Laurence

Ok. Myth or no, if you're going to the trouble of wearing multiple
layers of x, y, and z synthetic or natural fabrics, wind breakers,
gloves, boots, etc., it doesn't make much sense to go hatless.
Walter

John Mulholland

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Feb 5, 2010, 5:26:36 PM2/5/10
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"Walter Martindale" <wmar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dbd17659-a22d-4dc3...@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...

I agree; once you have covered everything up to the neck, a hat probably
will prevent 45% of the remaining heat loss.

--
John Mulholland


James.

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Feb 7, 2010, 6:28:48 AM2/7/10
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Personally I use SealSkinz gloves. They are definitely windproof,
perhaps not as waterproof as they claim (shower proof would be fair
and if you dip your hand in the water you have a few seconds of
immersion before your hands get wet), but they do keep your hands
fairly toasty. If you need to do fiddly stuff then they are a little
chunky. Yesterday I was rigging and had to go gloveless but putting
them on after was pretty amazing, warm hands in seconds.

boatie

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Feb 8, 2010, 10:04:34 PM2/8/10
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Gareth
For me (and I also get very cold hands and feet due to bad
circulation) I use two pairs of fleece gloves, some silk liner gloves
and waterproof ski-gloves on top.
it isn't enough.

Feet - I agree about more socks requiring larger boots - my walking
boots are good to wear. Sorbothane insoles help a bit. But again two
pairs of socks are a boon.

For when I'm sculling I haven't bettered sheepskin shooting mittens
http://www.nurseysheepskin.co.uk/catalogue/product/1002/3060

The finger loops are fine for holding scull handles and the wrist band
helps keep the veins warm as Caroline says. FAR better than pogies
and you're less likely to fall in trying to put them on mid-outing.
Rebecca

di@rocktheboat

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Feb 9, 2010, 7:52:45 AM2/9/10
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On Feb 9, 3:04 am, boatie <rebe...@caroe.com> wrote:

>
> For when I'm sculling I haven't bettered sheepskin shooting mittenshttp://www.nurseysheepskin.co.uk/catalogue/product/1002/3060


Amazed to find that was a link to UK sheepskin company as I was sure
that would be Rebecca finding a new market for NZ wool now she has new
home .....! C'mon Rebecca you can develop the perfect coaching mitt
and you, Karon and me will all sell it for you! Or have the NZ World
Champs signed you up to their marketing team yet?

Walter Martindale

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Feb 11, 2010, 1:26:42 PM2/11/10
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On Feb 9, 4:04 pm, boatie <rebe...@caroe.com> wrote:
> Gareth
> For me (and I also get very cold hands and feet due to bad
> circulation) I use two pairs of fleece gloves, some silk liner gloves
> and waterproof ski-gloves on top.
> it isn't enough.
>
> Feet - I agree about more socks requiring larger boots - my walking
> boots are good to wear.  Sorbothane insoles help a bit.  But again two
> pairs of socks are a boon.
>
> For when I'm sculling I haven't bettered sheepskin shooting mittenshttp://www.nurseysheepskin.co.uk/catalogue/product/1002/3060

>
> The finger loops are fine for holding scull handles and the wrist band
> helps keep the veins warm as Caroline says.  FAR better than pogies
> and you're less likely to fall in trying to put them on mid-outing.
> Rebecca

Hi Rebecca,

Hope you're enjoying Dunedin - good to see you at Twizel t'other week.

From a coaching perspective when you're sitting in a motor boat and
not generating extra heat by hauling on an un-cooperative engine
starter rope...

Sorry about the long URLs but Mountain Equipment Co-op in Canada (you
need to be a member before you can purchase but that's accomplished
with a $5.00 "share") carry a bunch of gloves and mitts. I wear a
pair of insulated, goretex covered gloves that cover the ends of my
jacket so there's no air-leak on dry days, and tuck into the rain-gear
sleeves on wet days. I can dip my hands into the water without
getting them wet...


http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442617628&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474396039197&bmUID=1265912018971

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442627387&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302698971&bmUID=1265912149790

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442507835&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302885971&bmUID=1265912207277

Couple that with a Mustang survival suit, waterproof footwear and a
good head cover, and survival coaching should be easier.

Cheers,

Walter

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