Stroke Rate
Steve Patat
I am the parent of a High School Rower.I am tring to educate myself
about Rowing. Could anyone tell me if a higher stroke rate (38) is
better or worst than a moderate stroke rate(32)? This would be for a 8.
I understand that normally faster is better but what if it cuts down the
reach of the rowers? Would they be better to develop a longer reach and
slower rate or try to keep the higher rate? Thanks in advance. Steve
Patat spa...@gabn.net
shug
In article <339FEC...@gabn.net>, Steve says...
It's not quite as simple as an Orwellian '32 good, 38 better'. Obviously
if a crew could sustain equal power output for 38 strokes in a minute as
opposed to 32 then they would go faster. There is however the question of
what a crew can sustain over 2k and how efficient they make each stroke.
As a casual observer look for 'cover' in an eight; if the strokes next catch
goes into the water ahead of the bowmans' last puddle then the crew is rowing
relatively efficiently and achieving 'cover'.
The question of reach Vs rate encompasses all of rowing from athlete morphology
to rigging and is not easily answered; even by world class coaches.
shug
Rob Bristow
> Steve Patat <spa...@gabn.net> writes:
> I am the parent of a High School Rower.I am tring to educate myself
> about Rowing. Could anyone tell me if a higher stroke rate (38) is
> better or worst than a moderate stroke rate(32)? This would be for a 8.
> I understand that normally faster is better but what if it cuts down the
> reach of the rowers? Would they be better to develop a longer reach and
> slower rate or try to keep the higher rate? Thanks in advance. Steve
> Patat spa...@gabn.net
>
>>>>
If the rate of 38 has been obtained by an increase in the work in the water
i.e. moving the blade through the water faster., rather than going up the slide
faster or shortening the stroke, then the higher stroke rate will produce more
speed of the boat through the water however a crew might be unable to keep this rating
for as long a period as the lower rating. Many crews, over a 2000 m race might
start at over 40 spm settle to a rating in the mid 30's for the bulk of the race using a
higher rate ( as a result of more effort) at strategic points in the race.
You don't have to be in an 8 to do a rating of 38! Other crews can manage it as well
Hope this helps.
Rob Bristow
Custodian of the NZRA site
Toby Ellis
There was a case, in the '70s I believe, of a Japanese crew rowing the
Henly Regatta course at a stroke rate of 60. They won but I also later
heard that they all died a bit on the young side.
This could be a total untruth, I would not personally vouch for it, but it
does show that in theory, 38 is faster than 32. However, reality comes down
to individual crews. A stronger crew can keep up the same pressure for a
higher stroke rate, but there is always a pay off against technique and
general smoothness.
For any given stroke, somewhere between 40 - 60 percent of it is spent on
the return and keeping this part of the stroke smooth is vital to keep the
baot running well. For most oarsmen, technique suffers when pulling at full
power (of course, the better the oarsman, the better his technique at full
power) and so the running of the boat between strokes is less and so less
overall speed results.
Most crews also find that rowing at a high rate with less power is
difficult and tiring and so find their best speed at a lower rate - nearer
the 32. Crews that tend to win are usually the ones who seem to be rating
the lowest - their technique is good enough to set the baot up nicely in
the running stage and so can expend a greater percentage of their energy in
the power stage.
Hope this helps a bit.
--
"Da mihi castitatem et continentiam, Domini, sed noli modo."
St. Augustine of Hippo. 354-430 AD.
Steve Patat <spa...@gabn.net> wrote in article <339FEC...@gabn.net>...
Josh Ditmore
Toby Ellis wrote:
>
> There was a case, in the '70s I believe, of a Japanese crew rowing the
> Henly Regatta course at a stroke rate of 60. They won but I also later
> heard that they all died a bit on the young side.
actually, this japanese crew did row the race above a rating of 50 the
whole race sometimes spilling into the 60 range, but they didn't only
die a bit on the young side, one died in the boat after the race,
another died on the dock after the race and the other six died within
the next couple of days in the hospital. they also did not win the race.
i believe that they lost to a german crew or something.
--
Josh Ditmore
Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA
j-di...@nwu.edu
Kieran Coghlan
Hmmm.... and you read this information from *which* established journal?
Ever heard of a modern myth, Josh? I've been told that this is just one
of common stories in the rowing community that have no basis in fact.
--
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Cal Irvine Rowing, '92-'96
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I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them.
I shall use my time." --Jack London
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ehr...@widomaker.com
In article <33A1B8...@dareangel.jpl.nasa.gov>,
Jim Kreuziger <ji...@dareangel.jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>I have heard something along the lines of the above. It seems
>that the above story is one of the "urban myths" that has become
>prevalent in our society. Unless someone can bring up some hard
>evidence, I think I'll just add the "japanese crew death" story
>to the list of rowing foklore myths.
There was an article in the _American_Rowing_ Magazine a year or so ago
investigating this myth. The conclusion was that it never happened.
There was a crew which inspired the story, but everything got blown out of
proportion.
My senior year in college I was in a crew which won Eastern Sprints after
I made some very risky (but necessary) strategy calls. We were under
serious observation by two safety launches immediately at the finish line,
where we lingered a while waiting for everyone to come to. Everyone looked
like hell, but was ok. Nevertheless, by the next day, I had already heard
rumors that four guys in my crew had been hospitalized. These stories have
a way of taking on a life of their own, so I can perfectly well believe
that the Japanese crew story is also rather embellished over the years.
Charles Ehrlich
Men's Coach
William & Mary Rowing
--
_____
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`----
Jim Kreuziger
Josh Ditmore wrote:
(snip)
> actually, this japanese crew did row the race above a rating of 50 the
> whole race sometimes spilling into the 60 range, but they didn't only
> die a bit on the young side, one died in the boat after the race,
> another died on the dock after the race and the other six died within
> the next couple of days in the hospital. they also did not win the race.
> i believe that they lost to a german crew or something.
>
I have heard something along the lines of the above. It seems
that the above story is one of the "urban myths" that has become
prevalent in our society. Unless someone can bring up some hard
evidence, I think I'll just add the "japanese crew death" story
to the list of rowing foklore myths.
-- Jim
The views expressed are mine, and do not represent those
of JPL or any agents of JPL.
___________________________________________________________
Jim Kreuziger Lottery: A tax on
Jet Propulsion Laboratory people who are bad
phone: (818) 306-6605 work at math.
e-mail: ji...@dareangel.jpl.nasa.gov
___________________________________________________________
Todd P. Kennelly
-.---====/ JaToCo Inc. \====-.-
--
On 13-Jun-97 21:34:32, Josh Ditmore, posted the following::
JD> Toby Ellis wrote:
>>
>> There was a case, in the '70s I believe, of a Japanese crew rowing the
>> Henly Regatta course at a stroke rate of 60. They won but I also later
JD> actually, this japanese crew did row the race above a rating of 50 the
JD> whole race sometimes spilling into the 60 range, but they didn't only
JD> die a bit on the young side, one died in the boat after the race,
JD> another died on the dock after the race and the other six died within
JD> the next couple of days in the hospital. they also did not win the race.
JD> i believe that they lost to a german crew or something.
JD> j-di...@nwu.edu
Oh jeeze, not again!
How about the version that says they rowed at Marlowe at (or about) 50spm and
won. According to _that_ story,, they tried the same thing at Henley, but,
due to the longer distance, they were overtaken and lost the race.
All these stories, although based on a tiny bit of fact, are rubbish.
Nobody died after that race (in the boat or out)
I heard much the same when I was coxing at the Henley regatta in 1976.
(However, when I heard it, it had happened in the late fifties!)
...and didn't Dr. Rowing cover this in an issue of The Independant Rowing
News, not too long ago??
Cheers, Todd K. (Tabor Academy MV8 coxswain 74-76)
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gdoyle
In article <01bc77db$ff2db520$92577ec2@promptus001>, "Toby says...
>
>There was a case, in the '70s I believe, of a Japanese crew rowing the
>Henly Regatta course at a stroke rate of 60. They won but I also later
>heard that they all died a bit on the young side.
I have heard this one since I was fourteen and it still gives me the
gigglies. Somebody did the ritual five-year debunking of this myth in
recent (past year??) issues of American Rowing. Someone else can dig it
up; I don't keep 'em organized (unless you count the pile in the middle
of my floor as a 'convenient central location').
Greg Doyle
Philadelphia, Pa.
gdo...@dynanet.com
PS-The address in the header is not mine. It is that of King Spamalot
Sanford Wallace who routinely rakes the usenet postings for email
addresses to send his ejunk. This should amuse his spamming software.
gdoyle
In article <33A176...@nwu.edu>, Josh says...
>
>Toby Ellis wrote:
>>
>> There was a case, in the '70s I believe, of a Japanese crew rowing the
>> Henly Regatta course at a stroke rate of 60. They won but I also later
>> heard that they all died a bit on the young side.
>
>
an' I heard one threw up a kidney!!!...an' also, one guy exploded!!!...
an' the water turned red like BLOOD!!!!!!....an' guts were a floatin'...
an' one was really an ALIEN!!...an' then a big spaceship came down....
an' then........yeesh!!!!!!
The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence that it is not
utterly absurd; indeed, in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind,
a widespread belief is more often likely to be foolish than sensible.
- Bertrand Russell (1872-1970)
I really have to sort through that pile of American Rowing to find the
Japanese myth bit. If this ever-recurring myth plagues us, imagine how
much it annoys Japanese rowers......
Nottingham University AU
Toby Ellis wrote:
>
> There was a case, in the '70s I believe, of a Japanese crew rowing the
> Henly Regatta course at a stroke rate of 60. They won but I also later
> heard that they all died a bit on the young side.
>
before rating 60, then tried it at Henley (about 2200m) and blew up
spectacularly coming into the enclosures. Maybe not such a good idea
then.......
Rob Bristow
> Todd P. Kennelly <To...@CapeCod.net> writes:
> -.---====/ JaToCo Inc. \====-.-
> --
> On 13-Jun-97 21:34:32, Josh Ditmore, posted the following::
> >>
> >> There was a case, in the '70s I believe, of a Japanese crew rowing the
> >> Henly Regatta course at a stroke rate of 60. They won but I also later
> >> heard that they all died a bit on the young side.
> I heard much the same when I was coxing at the Henley regatta in 1976.
> (However, when I heard it, it had happened in the late fifties!)
>
> Cheers, Todd K. (Tabor Academy MV8 coxswain 74-76)
It actually happened in the 30's and the crew had all their seats linked together
so that there timing was perfect!! While the rating of 50 was reached I am not aware that
they managed a rating of 60
Rob Bristow
Rod Lawson
In article <1887.7103...@CapeCod.net>, Todd P. Kennelly
<To...@CapeCod.net> writes:
>Oh jeeze, not again!
>
>How about the version that says they rowed at Marlowe at (or about) 50spm
and
>won. According to _that_ story,, they tried the same thing at Henley,
but,
>due to the longer distance, they were overtaken and lost the race.
>
>All these stories, although based on a tiny bit of fact, are rubbish.
>
> Nobody died after that race (in the boat or out)
I seem to remember the UL crew in the Daf Power Sprints rowing something
like 50 all the way. They got beaten.
I don't think any actually did die, but they probably felt as if they did.
Rod.
Disclaimer; the opinions expressed above are not necessarily yours.
Todd P. Kennelly
-.---====/ JaToCo Inc. \====-.-
--
>> Todd P. Kennelly <To...@CapeCod.net> writes:
>> --
>> On 13-Jun-97 21:34:32, Josh Ditmore, posted the following::
>> JD> Toby Ellis wrote:
>> >>
>> >> There was a case, in the '70s I believe, of a Japanese crew rowing the
>> >> Henly Regatta course at a stroke rate of 60. They won but I also later
>> >> heard that they all died a bit on the young side.
>> I heard much the same when I was coxing at the Henley regatta in 1976.
>> (However, when I heard it, it had happened in the late fifties!)
>>
>> Cheers, Todd K. (Tabor Academy MV8 coxswain 74-76)
RB> It actually happened in the 30's and the crew had all their seats linked
RB> together so that there timing was perfect!! While the rating of 50 was
RB> reached I am not aware that they managed a rating of 60
RB> Rob Bristow
Rob, I wish you quoted the part of my post which said: that although this
story is based on a tiny bit of fact, it is mostly rubbish and nobody has
been able to prove that it ever _really_ happened.
Although, I like the part about the linked-seats I'd never heard that one!
Cheers, Todd K.
--
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Sr. Piloto (Vance)
gdoyle wrote:
> In article <33A176...@nwu.edu>, Josh says...
> >
> >Toby Ellis wrote:
> >>
> >> There was a case, in the '70s I believe, of a Japanese crew rowing
> the
> >> Henly Regatta course at a stroke rate of 60. They won but I also
> later
> >> heard that they all died a bit on the young side.
> >
And i thought the Japanese people did this in an Olympics in the
1920's.
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\____/ \____//_/ \__,_/ \__,_/ /_/ /_/
Mrkowal
This story never dies, just like the Loch Ness monster or Big Foot never
die. Have you ever noticed no Japanise ever substantiate this story.
Mrkowal
How about linked oar handles pulling two huge oars.
Koster J.A.
When the Oxford blues rowed the Heineken Regatta (250, 750, 2500 and
5000 m.) in Amsterdam two weeks before the boat race this year they
rated 52 on the 250 m. sprint alongside the French national eight,
beating them by about a canvas.
I believe they all survived because I saw them rowing the boat race two
weeks later. Maybe they would have won if they hadn't....
I heard about the Japanese guy at Henley (late twenties they say). Hey
got mangled in the slidings because he fell off his seat and the others
all kept going at 60 strokes a minute, seats connected and all... The
invention of the minced meat machine was then a fact.
(Later they invented rowing ergometers to make the minced meat)
A3aan.
--
Adriaan Koster
A.S.R. Nereus, Amsterdam
a3...@cs.vu.nl - http://www.cs.vu.nl/~a3aan
voice: +31 20 4447785
Step...@schaffran.com
Since the entertaining exchange on the Japanese high-raters was winding down, I
thought the time had come to ask the experts. Here is the message from Chris
Dodd at the River & Rowing Museum Foundation, Henley on Thames
>About the only shred of truth in all this is that the Japanese caused a
>sensation in 1936 when their eight in the Grand rated at over 50 over
>the Henley course. They didn't win the Grand, but they were still alive
>a few weeks later when they competed in the Olympic regatta at Grunau,
>Berlin (which they didn't win either - ask the University of
>Washington).
Steve Schaffran
eton
In article <33A15E...@cs.nott.ac.uk>, Nottingham University AU
<a...@cs.nott.ac.uk> writes
>Toby Ellis wrote:
>>
>> There was a case, in the '70s I believe, of a Japanese crew rowing the
>> Henly Regatta course at a stroke rate of 60. They won but I also later
>> heard that they all died a bit on the young side.
>>
>before rating 60, then tried it at Henley (about 2200m) and blew up
>spectacularly coming into the enclosures. Maybe not such a good idea
>then.......
Of course there is the story (probably untrue) of the Japanese crew that
rated 50 the whole 2000m then all died at the end. Kamekaze rowing.
--
eton
David Ma
>
>Of course there is the story (probably untrue) of the Japanese crew that
>rated 50 the whole 2000m then all died at the end. Kamekaze rowing.
>--
>eton
Actually, a few years back I did see the Keio University Crew rowed a
2500m head race with a start at 50+. I did not know how long they were
able to last because I had to launch for my own race but I heard the power
seriously declined after the fist 500m. I think this was 1991.
Jim Kreuziger
Let's set this story straight. I think I heard that the above Japanese
crew (or was it Korean?) started a race against the British (or was it
the Germans?) at the astounding rating of 75 spm (or was it 57 spm?).
They proceded to settle at a 100 spm the 55m mark (oops, I think it
should be 55 spm at the 100m mark). They started their sprint at
the 75m mark, and brought the rate back up to a 1500...
Anyway, the end result was that they lost the race, and then they died.
Instantly. In unison. They couldn't even get back to dock...
-Jim Kreuziger