I am sure that this is the first year that this has been done, prior
to this year's regatta I am pretty positive that it has always been
completely free to sit on the bank on the stretch from the barrier
down to Fawley and Old Blades, or does someone know otherwise? Now I
don't know about the rest of you but I think that this 'development'
is a bit crap really; one of the great things about HRR (apart from
the vast numbers of extremely gorgeous rowing men wandering around the
place looking incredibly dapper in blazers) is that anyone can come
and watch the racing and sit on the bank with friends and family for
free and enjoy some of the atmosphere of this unique regatta without
having to shell out to go into one of the enclosures to do so, but now
it seems that this is no longer going to be possible. Do the
landowners of this stretch of land not make enough money out of the
regatta already without having to resort to this of sort thing?
what does everyone else think about this? do you approve?
hmmmm.....
Bookie
Emily, let yourself slip there for a minute on the 'extremely gorgeous
rowing men wandering around the place looking incredibly dapper in
blazers', you probably meant to say watching the superior technique,
blade placement and power application through the stroke of
international class rowers ...
Having said this yes, in explaining to my colleagues the seperation of
Henley from all other major summer events is the minimal impact of
commercial influence against the interests of the sport. The hiring of
'pitches' on the side of the river is worrying addition to this years
regatta. I believe the land is owned by HRR but I would not be
surprised if this is on a long lease from the Crown. Not sure on the
legal complexity but I always thought that tow paths were common land.
Nope don't approve as in my office there were at lease a dozen people
who turned up at the regatta and would not see rowing again this year.
Need to get them away from the Barn Bar and get them watching racing
as wont be able to get them to learn to row courses at Chez Quintin
and having selective pitches on the bank side is not going to help.
Don't really mix with the great unwashed down there, earn't my stripes
so prefer to watch from the Fawley Bar. Now a nice little taxi service
down to the start would be very much a welcome addition, can then
avoid the riff raff in between ! ;-)
> Having said this yes, in explaining to my colleagues the seperation of
> Henley from all other major summer events is the minimal impact of
> commercial influence against the interests of the sport. The hiring of
> 'pitches' on the side of the river is worrying addition to this years
> regatta. I believe the land is owned by HRR but I would not be
> surprised if this is on a long lease from the Crown. Not sure on the
> legal complexity but I always thought that tow paths were common land.
Unless ownership has changed in the last 20 years since Burnell wrote
his history of the regatta, that stretch is not owned by HRR.
I believe the land from Remenham Farm downstream to the start and way
beyond is owned by Copas, not HRR. Copas usually have a sign up on
the towpath to make it clear that the public right of way across their
land is for the towpath only, and everywhere off the towpath, in
particular the strip of land between the towpath and the river is
private (hence their ability to charge for picnic pitches).
Clearly they were doing a brisk trade (I think they were only charging
on Fri, Sat and Sun) - I'm sure they'll argue "supply and demand", and
that they incur costs cleaning up after the event - but I'm not
surprised that I've not heard anyone say anything positive about it.
PS I thought there already was a ferry to the start; I'm sure I saw
posters on some of the piles at the start advertising a ferry
service. But maybe I had been in the sun (and/or the start bar) for
too long...
I must admit I was pretty surprised when I saw it. So there is no
nowhere (apart from 50 metres or so at the start) that a spectator can
sit and watch any racing at the weekend of Henley. disgraceful. I also
noticed that COPAS were renting picnic tables near Fawley for £20.
Funnily enough it makes the Regatta enclosure seem good value although
they are getting a bit arsy by not allowing food or drink into the
Enclosure. If you take notice of this it forces you to buy from the
ridiculously overpriced cafe - £2.40 from a standard cup of coffee!
Needless to say I brought my own supplies and surreptitiously consumed
them! Henley used to be one of the great free sporting
spectacles....it's a sad development that COPAS felt the need to
expolit the public in this way.
I don't think they were charging for the area between the path and the
river, from the start to the barrier, and maybe even as far as the inlet
right in front of the Barn Bar, but from the inlet down to the end of
the Copas land at Fawley, it was all marked out or had picnic tables for
hire for the day.
Also the riverside from the cattle grid at Fawley to the bridge by
Remenham Club is free, but you'd have to get there early in order to
find a spot.
glad to see I am not the only one who thinks this is a disgrace,
hardly promotes rowing and this regatta in particular as 'sport for
all' does it? I am rather sick of the increasing commercialisation of
HRR by Copas, they charge the stallholders so much to have a pitch in
the shopping village by the barn bar that very few of the small
companies who deal in rowing kit (rock the boat, etc) can really
afford to set up there now and so the whole area is now just a
collection of random stalls selling pashminas and bizarre equestrian-
themed jewellery. It used to be the case that you could pick some
bargains from the stalls during HRR week, view samples of kit, place
orders for club stuff, but no more (although i did get a bargain at
the JL stand on one of last seasons coolmax tops on sale).
from what I could see myself the area they were charging for extended
from the gate by Old Blades up to past the barrier (where I was
perched on the fence to do my commentary from) up until about the
first bench downstream of the barrier. I don't think HRR own this
land, it is Copas land, after that bench i think it is owned by the
temple island trust who were doing there own trade in private
riverside mini-enclosures but at least they did not cordon off the
whole bank. It may be that they were doing a roaring trade and that
these pitches were quickly snapped up but by whom? by groups of rowdy
drunken women on hen-parties with no interest in the actual rowing, as
was the case in front of me? or by genuine rowing enthusiasts who had
no choice but to pay in order to see some action but have now been put
off going to watch HRR in future because of these new costs? The
result I observed of this new development was that the stretch from
just downstream of the barrier up to the start was overcrowded and
chaotic and it was real struggle to make one's way up the path at that
point, again hardly conducive to genuine rowing fans with young
families, pushchairs, doggies, etc who just want to come and enjoy
the spectacle and either will not or can not pay out for expensive
pitches.
I am glad other people are equally appalled by this new feature, do
the landowners really need to do this to cover the costs of clearing
up afterwards?
yours, all henley-ed out, Bookie
btw how much is a ticket for the regatta enclosure? i have always got
in with a stewards pass before (well no one has ever stopped me at the
gate whilst wearing one anyway) and then just gone up the bank on the
days i have not had stewards tickets and can't be bothered to dress
up, now i am thinking it might be worth it to buy a regatta ticket
after all, access to toilets, good view of the racing, and all that.
> btw how much is a ticket for the regatta enclosure? i
See http://www.hrr.co.uk/pdisp.php?pid=62#regatta
Page down to find Regatta Enclosure info; some people refer to it as
the "General Enclosure".
sorry that should be 'their own trade' not 'there', my apologies
bookie
£12 for Wed - Thurs. £15 for the rest of the regatta. I much prefer
going in there than Stewards. The view is better, plus it's where the
competitors go to watch the racing (if they don't want to dress up).
Its a shame - but we felt we could see more customers and potential
customers at other regattas.
Karon
like Karon I made a difficult decision not to take a public RtB shop
to HRR this year - not only because of the costs (which are
significant and need an awful lot of £10 / £16 t-shirt sales to cover
them) but also because it has become increasingly unpleasant to have a
stall there. On Weds and Sunday we used to see a lot of rowers at the
shop and have a chat and show new products and clear some out-of-date
stock. On Friday and Saturday in the last couple of years the real
rowers have cleared the towpath by 11am as later than that it becomes
hard to walk along, people would be behind the trade stands peeing in
the trees, we needed staff for security rather than customer service,
and it was generally no fun!
This year I had Wednesday off altogether and played with friends in
the enclosures! On Thurs to Sunday we had a joint shop with Remenham
Club in their enclosure which wasn't great commercially but allowed us
to watch racing, talk to customers, get there late and leave early and
generally enjoy HRR again.
I didn't pay £15 for a picnic spot on Saturday but wandered up to the
end of the Island for an hour in the sun on the bank with my feet in
the river - bliss. I had been planning to have a coffee with one of
the Regatta Radio commentators but she was in the Shopping Village
area and the coffee I got for her almost got us a charge as I had put
it on a picnic bench!
On the grapevine there was a hideous incident on Sat night when a
portaloo (for which folks were being charged £1 a go - not by Copas
Family) was pushed over onto its door with a girl trapped inside. She
needed overnight hospitalisation and I dread to think what she is
going through with blood tests etc. I know of someone else who was
assaulted on Friday night.
I think the on-the-water Henley Royal Regatta is superb, I think the
enclosures at Remenham Club and from Regatta Enclosure to Leander Club
are great fun. I think Wednesday is fine along the whole course. I
am concerned about the rest of the week away from the Enclosures and
regret that the general rower / spectator may choose not to keep
supporting the event.
Henley Women's and Henley Vet's are still all about the rowing though
and the atmosphere at both of those remains superb!
Di,
FWIW you were missed. The Rock-the-Boat stall at Henley is my annual
chance to stock up on rowing themed apparel for my kids and thus earn
myself the brownie points necessary to "pay" for my trip in the first
place. I was in deep trouble when I got back this year :(
Kit
Di,
I also missed you, I went to thank you for the donation of drinking
bottles for our young Start Team at Marlow Regatta.
On the main topic I walked down to the farm on Friday afternoon during
the tea interval - a frustrating walk avoiding the crowds and peering
at the stalls etc. I must agree that the whole atmosphere has changed
in the past few years. Upper Thames has sold it's soul with the
multitude of drinks outlets etc and then there is the hotch potch of
trinket sellers both sides of Old Blades.
As for the farm it was showing the football and the jazz band had to
shout rather than sing.
Unfortunately the stewards have no control because the land is owned
by others who have only one interest (commercial) which is to the
detriment of the enjoyment of the regatta of mere rowing mortals.
Kit & Peter,
Thank you both - made me feel all warm and fuzzy (and a tad guilty for
not being there ....!). Kit - I can post things out if you haven't
already made amends .... and Peter - no need for thanks, you always
look after me!
Dix
yes, yours and karon's stalls were the ones I wandered down the
towpath on friday lunchtime after my commentary shift to visit, see
what new stuff you have and have a rifle through your sale bins, bit
annoying that neither of you were present but I really am not that
surprised considering the cost of a pitch there and the hassle you get
from the louts along the towpath. I spoke to the people on the RS/
fanatic stand at henley womens and they said that they were not going
to be at HRR either because of the costs involved and the trouble they
have had to deal with such as thefts and drunk people and that they do
not sell enough to justify going there.
it is a shame because stalls such as yours at regattas are really the
main place to purchase new training kit (i don't like buying stuff
online, I like to see, touch and try on my purchases) since there are
no options to buy all in ones and the like on the high street.
i didn't hear about the incidents on the friday and saturday nights,
or the rowers assaulted in town afterwards, just so unnecessary
regatta enclosure next year then, bookie
Maybe not, back to the Tooting Popular front for me
I have taken it upon myself to write to her expressing my hope that
she can put pressure on the relevant powers:-
Dear Mrs May,
Although Henley is not your constituency, the Regatta takes place on
land that is within your constituency and I am writing to you, not
only as the local MP, but also as the Home Secretary.
I have attended the last 36 Henley Royal Regattas, as a spectator, a
competitor and now as a coach with the London Rowing Club and have
observed over the years, the collapse in public order on the Saturday
Evening.
This year, one of the athletes from my club, was attacked whilst
leaving the Remenham club, on the river bank simply because he was
wearing a particularly bright blazer.( awarded in recognition of
rowing achievements) Another athlete from my club, who had just raced
in a semi-final, was set upon by some drunken youths demanding has
wallet, phone and sunglasses whilst returning to his accommodation in
the town. The injuries that this athlete received necessitated a
consultation with a specialist followed by over treatment in the Royal
Berkshire Hospital in Reading and he is unlikely to be able to race at
our National Championships in ten days time
Two years ago an athlete from Belgium was stabbed and this year’s
incidents are not isolated cases. It would be a sad day, and very poor
publicity for the Town of Henley on Thames and the surrounding area,
if the Stewards of the Regatta, who only have control over a limited
length of the riverbank, had to issue a warning to all competitors,
coaches and spectators advising them, for their own safety, not to
venture down the riverbank.
I hope that you may be able to put some pressure on relevant
authorities to come up with plan that will in some way maintain the
relaxed party atmosphere along the riverbank whilst controlling the
hooligan element that invade the town after racing on the Saturday
Evening. Henley Royal Regatta is a uniquely British Institution that I
dearly love. Members of my family have been attending the regatta for
over one hundred years
I have written a similar letter to your fellow MP Jim Howell in the
neighbouring constituency.
Yours
If any reader of these pages is attending the Commons/Lords boatrace
being held tomorrow, they might try raising the matter with a friendly
member of either house.
<snip for brevity>
> If any reader of these pages is attending the Commons/Lords boatrace
> being held tomorrow, they might try raising the matter with a friendly
> member of either house.
I imagine the Mayor of Henley has some influence in local licensing
decisions too even though some of the premises concerned are on the
"wrong side" of the river. And as the Mayor is also a Steward, that
might be worth pursuing as well.
But not all of the blame rests with the drinks outlets along the
riverbank. There was a noticeable number of "supporters" carrying
crates of booze (usually lager) which I imagine was probably bought at
knock-down prices from local supermarkets. That's something that
certainly needs to be addressed, and not just for HRR.
Any legal eagles here? Is it tantamount to a village green and people
should just sit there and not pay.
Unlike the Stewards people have been "Nec Ni, Nec Clam, Nec
Impresario" and should continue to do so. Have there been signs up
over the past 20 odd years??????
Donal
D
i thought that was the case and they had no right to charge, but i
really don't know the legal ins and outs of it
>
> Unlike the Stewards people have been "Nec Ni, Nec Clam, Nec
> Impresario" and should continue to do so. Have there been signs up
> over the past 20 odd years??????
>
> Donal
what does this mean?
letter in the times from a certain richard phillips about the violence
on the bank during hrr, i might have to actually buy a hard copy to
read it since they are charging to read it online
B
Confused me too; but Google and Wikipedia to the rescue (possibly). I
think some typos may have crept in to Donal's post and it should have
read "nec vi, nec clam, nec precario". "Nec ni" is presumably
something to do with knights... ;-)
Here's what Wikip says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nec_vi,_nec_clam,_nec_precario
Nec vi, nec clam, nec precario, is a Latin legal term meaning 'not by
force, nor stealth, nor licence'. It is the principle by which rights
may be built up over time, principally public rights of way in the
United Kingdom. Specifically, if a path is used – openly, not against
protests, and without permission of the landowner – for an extended
period (20 years) then a permanent legal right to such use is
established.
It is often referred to in the context of adverse possession and other
land law issues. It is also relevant to the creation of easements
whereby the law 'prescribes' an easement in the absence of a deed. In
order for the law to do so the right of way or easement needs to have
been enjoyed without force, without secrecy, and without permission
for a period of time, usually 20 years.
I think it'd have to be "Nec vi". Unless you're one of the Knights that
say "Ni!"?
The essence of a right of way, IIRC, is that it must lead to somewhere
you need to go, as well as having been used by you regularly, with out
force, stealth, etc., i.e. as of right. So I doubt you have established
any such right, sorry.
If one reflects, for a moment:
Copas own the land and have maintained it in a fashion which enables
regatta-goers to continue to wander around as in days of yore. They aid
to have the banks campshedded, & doubtless must pay the Environment
Agency an annual fee accordingly. I'd suppose that only a fool, these
days, would not charge folk who have no legitimate business on Copas
property. Imagine there was an event in your road each year, & each
year the attendance grew, & each year the world & his wife, kids &
drinking mates decided that _your_ front garden was just the place to
park their car, set out their tables, leave their empties &, while
there, to crap behind your roses. Wouldn't you be moved to either shut
them out or charge them through the nose for the privilege?
One problem is loutish, ignorant behaviour, not only of the local thugs
but also of affluent visitors with not the least interest in rowing, who
see the regatta as some kind of human lek at which to parade in their
finery & be seen to do so. I agree, the charges seem exorbitant, but
most folk today think only fools charge what it costs rather than what
they can get from those with cash to spare. So you get charged through
the nose.
Yes many years back, shall we say 30+, Henley was fun. And it was
accessible. You could see & follow races along the towpath - imagine!
But the pressures "to be there" have grown many times, making Henley
plain unpleasant. Only the competitors continue to get the very best.
Oscar Wilde told us we always hurt the things we love. For those who
love Henley, I think it has been badly hurt - by its public. But I
don't think that hurt will diminish for bellyaching about prices
charged. What has to happen is for reason (the market) to prevail -
stay away, don't pay. Otherwise, pay (for everything except the air you
breath) & put up with it. No prizes for guessing that, next year, HRR
will be even more crowded & even less enjoyable.
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: http://tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
He means "precario".
So Copas aren't the only folk charging us for things that until
recently used to be free...
Donal
Im not sure that it has been by licence in the past. No one has ever
stopped you to say do this or do that. Signs have not been there
saying that there is any grant of licence. The status quo has suited
Copas as they have benefitted from other areas(bar and cars) in the
past and now they are changing their stance which I think is
challengeable.
Certainly I am involved in village green applications and if the
landowner I represent were in a similar position I dont think we would
have a leg to stand on.
Some clarifications due, Donal.
You can acquire _ownership_ of land by adverse possession - provided you
fence, gate and control it as your own, without challenge from its
original owner(s), for a sufficient period (?12 years, I forget).
Merely using that land for a few days each year will not help you. Nor
will it help your claim that the land in question lacks any marked-out
definition (e.g fences).
You can acquire a prescriptive _right of way_ by regular & repeated use,
for a sufficient number of years, of an identified route across the land
of another, provided that your use was to pass from A to B in a lawful
manner and for a lawful purpose. That claim is defeated if the rightful
owner should challenge you as you try to pass, seek to prevent your
passage (even if by force you still got through), or let you through by
giving you permission. The claim has to refer to a particular track,
road or pathway & cannot be used in a loose claim of the kind, "Well, I
rambled all over that land & it cannot terminate within that land. You
cannot claim a right if you have used force to gain passage, nor if you
acted stealthily to effect a passage.
You might, very rarely, hit upon a situation where someone already has a
right of passage across your land (e.g. one granted by Act of Parliament
to allow them to maintain a property on the other side). Such a granted
right cannot be used additionally to generate prescriptive rights of
way, since the purpose of a right of way is to facilitate something that
otherwise you couldn't achieve. English Law relies to a large degree on
legal precedents - how past cases were settled. The case in which that
precedent was established involved the charmingly-named National
Guaranteed Manure Company and dates from the mid C19th.
And, finally, there are easements of necessity. Imagine your land is
entirely surrounded by that of a neighbour. To "enjoy" use of your land
you have a clear need of access across your neighbour's property, & you
do have a right to have a strip, defined as an easement of necessity,
but sufficient only to your evident needs, not more.
So I don't think you can hope to lay claim to pocket handkerchiefs of
Copas' land. Sorry. It's at times like this that we need to bring back
AP Herbert - rower, lawyer & author of Uncommon Law & other great
fictions on legal might-have-beens. I can see it now - Albert haddock
lays claim to a picnic-table sized plot of Copas Farm which he had liong
marked with a border of thistles....
However, all privately-owned land is in fact held in free-hold from the
Queen, who can have it back. So next time you see her you could pop a
question (not of the bigamous kind!)
Cheers -
Carl
On the ethanol-related-trouble part of this thread, yes, there's too
much of it about.
Not witnessed by me, but are there true reports of ethanol-related
disorder in front of guests in a club dining room on the Saturday
night, and largely not perpetrated by those nasty non-rowing oiky
proles? Perhaps that's the point.
Richard du P
She was not at home yesterday to ask. But I can report there is no
charge to have afternoon tea on the Lawns of her London home with her
sons.
Andrew
Well at least Copas allow free access to their land which does contain a
right of way (a towing path), the Stewards don't allow access to the bit of
the towing path they own at all and you have to walk round the back
alongside Remenham Lane. I just wonder what a horse drawn barge would do if
if wished to proceed upstream suring the regatta.
With the booms and piles down the course, not being able to access the
footpath at the front of the enclosures would be the least of their
problems.
All you have written is 100% correct
There is though another tack. That of the village green status which
effectively does allow for sitting and resting.
I havnt got case law on it to hand but it is something that is being
tested here and there.
We have local river swimming areas where the farmers are trying to
stop use due to the arguments that you have brought forward but the
"village green" idea is being used to test this. There is an impasse
as neither side wants to pay for lawyers. The normal response of the
farmer is to put a dead cow in the river upstream to deter swimmers.
(or am I maligning are rural custodians????)
Whether a few weeks a year would refute your arguments is another
matter or whether the whole year is required.
It is correct that they maintain the land which is good....though they
do benefit rather more than they would do from grazing land. Copas may
of course say that they have given licence. They may have done this by
notice in papers etc. at times over the years perhaps??
Whereas Im not seriously looking at a fight with Copas the situation
is potentially irritating. Particularly if ownership changed to
someone who had zero interest in the regatta. As it could lead to all
sorts of issues...more fencing restrictions etc etc. Im out office
tomorrow but will try and dig up some bits and pieces on village green
applications. I dont know if they are just against local
authorities... I suspect not.
Regards
Donal
D
> Email: c...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
> URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk(boats) &www.aerowing.co.uk(riggers)- Hide quoted text -
Looking at this ...there is a period of grace such that if a landowner
puts in a restriction then you can make the approach to rectify
situation.
So....would making such an application rock the boat and wreck
relationship with Copas or have they enough money to be made that it
really wouldnt be worth their while to effectively allow this small
concession and let it pass if
In respect of the Stewards they have of course defeated any village
green proposal by their use of the land over the years and footpath
diversions are an established principal in law which the Stewards
lawfully apply to the regatta. The footpath remains open simply
diverted around the back of the tents.
Whereas personally Im not looking for a fight if anyone feels very
strongly I think there is a legitimate claim which would be tricky to
refute. How many of you have enjoyed access over the last 20 years.
Certainly I have since I was 14 and Im 47 now.
Cheers
D
I hope your proud Emily Booker, look what you have done ! These fine
Gentlemen were enjoying their run into the Henley Masters until you
opened this can of worms !!
;-)
On a serious point Copus do strongly support both the Henley Womens
and Henley Vets regattas and that support is very much appreciated.
Without it the regattas might not be possible.
Maybe individuals can use this to register their concern that, while
they may or may not have issues with the areas under the direct
responsibility of the Stewards, the fact that from Thursday onwards
the traditional pleasures of wandering up the course have instead
become an ordeal.
This particulat page, which can be faxed or scanned and emailed (the
regatta has an email !!!) does not have the member number on it, so
any such contributions will be anonymous.
Dave H
A non-attendee this year - so I couldn't possibly use this myself
Cooperation & amity are preferable to conflict, sniping & hard words.
With insufficient understanding of the background, critics may be
heading for a fall.
Copas have been good friends of those events. They depend on Copas'
help & support. Access is over & on Copas' land. Many landowners, if
subjected to this kind of sniping, might be sorely tempted to see how
their critics felt when denied access.
Some of us may feel the monetary expectations of HRR & adjacent
landowners to be excessive but, while there are people with dosh enough
to pay their fees, those charges will remain & may even rise.
I respect Donal's opinion & read with interest the information he's
supplied. Were all visitors to HRR quietly enjoying the environment and
respecting the rights of others, we'd have grounds to consider the
village green model. However, for decades the growing hordes at HRR
(many of them not remotely interested in the racing or environment) have
been taking over. The consequent damage, lost amenity & sometimes gross
unpleasantness of the situations they generate have, for some of us,
turned HRR attendance from a joy to a trial.
I sympathise with rowing trade suppliers who no longer find the costs &
problems of attending the regatta justifiable. Sectors of rowing have
become greedy. Those who appoint themselves to administer our sport, &
those they depute to run trade shows, have a myopic view which fails to
see that the sport needs the trade.
When you've run a successful business for many years, it's maddening to
be bossed around like a kid by a petty, blazered twit who couldn't run a
whelk stall but feels entitled to dictate over your payment,
presentation & presence. Such disrespect contrasts with the mutual
regard existing between rowers & suppliers. Yet those same pompous
prats expect us to work insane hours for them (& we cheerfully do that)
when they need something in a hurry or have damaged equipment through
plain carelessness or lack of maintenance.
The UK's first rowing trade shows were relaxed affairs, no fancy
organisation or silly fees. The trade & officials had mutual regard &
everyone worked for rowers & the sport. This has changed. Now there
are inflated financial demands which the rowing trade can meet only by
inflating the prices of their goods & services, which in turn comes from
the rowers' pockets - there are no free lunches. If the organisers'
demands can only be met by the vendors of over-priced non-rowing goods &
services, & that being in a setting which increasingly ignores the
racing, the rowing & its equipment, then rowing has prostituted itself
&, like any common tart, has devalued its currency.
so what you're saying is that we have to swallow these ludicrous
charges to sit on the riverbank and not complain? you may think that
the Copas family are doing us a big favour by letting us have access
to their lands for a few occassions in the year such as Henley Womens,
Henley Vets and HRR but let's face it they make a hell of a lot of
money out of the people who come along to watch these events as it is,
they benefit greatly from these 3 events so letting us on to their
land is probably doing them more of a favour (financially) than it is
us.
anyway, it is not just the rowing community who is 'bellyaching' about
these charges; take a look at the letters page in this weeks Henley
Standard, there are a number of henley locals who have been coming to
watch the regatta from the bank outside of stewards who are certainly
less than impressed with the new charges. Should they too just put up
and shut up?
Bookie
i am just helping to fire them up before racing starts, getting the
adrenaline flowing and all that (but not too much as we don't want any
heart attacks mid-race)
Unfortunately it's a wicked old world, Bookie. Speaking only for
myself, I don't think it right for A to be vastly richer than B, but
most social systems which seek to enforce equality end up as tyrannies
of one sort or another. Fancy a move to N Korea?
The UK has a market economy - a jungle in which (unless you're stupid)
the laws will benefit you in proportion to your wealth & the plebs will
be in thrall to the indecently affluent (celeb worship). Society slices
itself into layers, each genuflecting towards those with more than them
& despising those supposedly less cultured & mannerly than, without
questioning why this should be so or we should be part of that process,
we believe ourselves to be.
I may be wrong, but I suspect that if you owned the Henley riverside
meadows you'd want to organise their use to make a profit & keep out
those you see as "undesirables" (e.g. some of those you've had the
displeasure of teaching, IIRC?). You'd have a powerful incentive to
make hay while sun shines, since circumstances might change (more
summers like this & the river might run dry) & leave you with a devalued
asset & no income. If the numbers wanting to invade your property were
few & harmless, there'd be no need or incentive to charge them, except
perhaps for parking space. But HRR has become a people-magnet & the
behaviour of some tends towards the deplorable. In this case, short of
military force, only high price & obscene overcrowding will limit numbers.
What the profits go, I know not. Copas keep the place pretty & clean.
They act responsibly. They make it possible for rowing events to happen
where many others might not. I've no idea whether they also make
handsome charitable donations from their profits but that's their
concern - their company returns would show.
>
> anyway, it is not just the rowing community who is 'bellyaching' about
> these charges; take a look at the letters page in this weeks Henley
> Standard, there are a number of henley locals who have been coming to
> watch the regatta from the bank outside of stewards who are certainly
> less than impressed with the new charges. Should they too just put up
> and shut up?
>
> Bookie
Of course the locals are peeved! Who welcomes change which limits what
we used to do? Are locals also complaining about the expansion of
ownership & control by HRR? Are those locals who earn from the event
complaining? 2 centuries ago there was no HRR & maybe you could go
where you liked on the bank in the first week of July, undisturbed by
prunes in lurid blazers, unfettered by fences & enclosures, in the
complete absence of crowds, 'hostility' tents, & other accretions of the
annual event some townsfolk in early C19th decided it'd be good to
foster. You might, of course, have been shot for trespass by an irate
landowner - who can say?
If you resent the current landowners harvesting their land in today's
so-corporate manner, then blame C19th townsfolk for lacking the
foresight to buy the entire river bank for the perpetual good of their
fledgling regatta & the future Emily Booker. Instead, the regatta
became independent of the town, ran its own risks, made its own
purchases, invented its own rules, did its own deals. And that's what
you've got - no effort on your part or mine.
Pitchforks are out of fashion & I don't foresee the disparate strata of
Henley society forgetting their mutual loathing to unite & fight a
peasant's revolution against the evolution of HRR, or to turn out the
folk at Copas.
Change will continue, but who knows its directions? I'm sad that those
with no love of rowing have taken over the event & Henley. The
resulting costs & clutter mean I don't & won't attend. Until a many
more of us vote with wallets & feet, nowt will change. But if we do all
stay away, who's to say the landowners & the Stewards won't decide it's
a great venue for another "Glasto". That'd really crap the place up!
Lovely weather for Henley Vets this weekend, none of those crowds & the
river looking its very best. You'll see good manners, good fun & good
racing. Unfortunately I'm far too busy to be there, but I can tell you
it was lovely yesterday morning.
TTFN -
Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: http://tinyurl.com/2tqujf
>
> Change will continue, but who knows its directions? I'm sad that those
> with no love of rowing have taken over the event & Henley. The
> resulting costs & clutter mean I don't & won't attend. Until a many
> more of us vote with wallets & feet, nowt will change. But if we do all
> stay away, who's to say the landowners & the Stewards won't decide it's
> a great venue for another "Glasto". That'd really crap the place up!
>
> Lovely weather for Henley Vets this weekend, none of those crowds & the
> river looking its very best. You'll see good manners, good fun & good
> racing. Unfortunately I'm far too busy to be there, but I can tell you
> it was lovely yesterday morning.
>
> > - Show quoted text -
I understand that Copas is a farming family and landowner who support
the rowing but also have a profit, so good luck to them.
It is UTRC and Old Blades which upset me - they are not businesses and
still encourage the 'trivia' and eateries. That is where Di and her
similar rowing related businesses should be given special treatment.
Fair play to Remenham for letting Rock the Boat have space but you
have to be a member or guest to get in so the majority of the rowing
world do not get a chance to purchase or have friendly conversation.
Perhaps the Stewards could make some space available on their land -
at one end of Lion Meadow or at the entrance to the boat tents - for
rowing businesses.
Of course that is where Emily and her Regatta Radio friends had their
cabin so it would be possible.
The problem as I see it is that there is potential for a new stewards
enclosure for want of a better descriptor to be made....cordoned off
and the footpath diverted round the back during the regatta. If the
village green stand is made now then it may in fact protect the
regatta as a whole.
I would think that the best people though to be taking action are the
Stewards or the local townspeople as they are the custodians of the
regatta and the main beneficiaries of the riverside walk. They have
most to lose and if they think its worth the hassle and possible
fallouts then they are better placed to be having that discussion.
Its a one off opportunity though for the discussion as if nothing is
done before next years regatta I think any village green rights will
be lost. Some areas of the village green argument will have already
been lost but there is an important slither of land that people havnt
paid for in the past that does have an opportunity to be protected.
There is the old tale of the golden goose..........lets hope for the
sake of rowing that this one isnt harmed.
Regards
Donal
On 8 July, 10:22, Carl Douglas <c...@carldouglas.co.uk> wrote:
> Email: c...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
> URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk(boats) &www.aerowing.co.uk(riggers)
D
no!!!! don't take our little space away!!! it is small enough as it
is.
has to be said that whilst walking behind the enclosures next to the
lion meadow car park one can see that there are a lot of car park
spaces not being used by members of the enclosure and left vacant for
at least one day (i would guess at about 50% of them), would there be
the possibility of a small section of these being used for genuine
rowing kit suppliers such as rock the boat etc being sited there not
be charged £2000 for this? I know that taking away some car parking
spaces will probably cause outrage amongst some of the members,
letters to the Times etc, but if they don't use them why not? it would
also mean less people walking up the towpath to go look at kit stands
and possibly the kit stands being sited in a more secure environment
away from the various bars up the towpath.
i get the feeling that people here are very happy for copas to
continue charging people to sit on the riverbank, personally i still
think it is crap and does nothing to deter the drunken hoardes from
coming up the towpath to get inebriated whilst doing a lot to deter
genuine rowing fans and families from enjoying the racing.
As for the copas family having to 'make hay whilst the sun shines' in
case global warming really starts in earnest , the thames dries up
totally and we have no regatta left for them to make money out of,
well, as peter said they are a farming family and therefore do have
another potantial source of income to return to should the worst
happen (ie farming)
and yes the atmosphere at henley vets was marvellous, gorgeous sun
albeit a bit windy, relaxed ambience, no drunks picking fights, no
stressed out coaches, just lots of people and their supporters (and
their dogs :-)) enjoying some good racing. I just wish our opposition
didn't blatantly cheat by having practise outings together before the
event, simply isn't sporting :-(.
Richard du P
no i meant the worst would be the river drying up, farming sounds like
quite a nice change (cows don't answer back!)
If the river dries up, no one farms.
Cheers -
"ws3" <ws3sc...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:7331c218-4398-429c...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> I think its disgraceful. Just perpetuates the image of the sport as
> being only for the upper classes if you have to pay to sit on a bit of
> grass!
"bookie" <emily_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b2c51a48-dfc9-4fb1...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On 6 July, 11:08, mruscoe <use...@mruscoe.org> wrote:
>> On 06/07/2010 10:51, fatsculler wrote:
>>
>> > I must admit I was pretty surprised when I saw it. So there is no
>> > nowhere (apart from 50 metres or so at the start) that a spectator can
>> > sit and watch any racing at the weekend of Henley. disgraceful.
>>
>> I don't think they were charging for the area between the path and the
>> river, from the start to the barrier, and maybe even as far as the inlet
>> right in front of the Barn Bar, but from the inlet down to the end of
>> the Copas land at Fawley, it was all marked out or had picnic tables for
>> hire for the day.
>>
>> Also the riverside from the cattle grid at Fawley to the bridge by
>> Remenham Club is free, but you'd have to get there early in order to
>> find a spot.
>
> glad to see I am not the only one who thinks this is a disgrace,
> hardly promotes rowing and this regatta in particular as 'sport for
> all' does it? I am rather sick of the increasing commercialisation of
> HRR by Copas, they charge the stallholders so much to have a pitch in
> the shopping village by the barn bar that very few of the small
> companies who deal in rowing kit (rock the boat, etc) can really
> afford to set up there now and so the whole area is now just a
> collection of random stalls selling pashminas and bizarre equestrian-
> themed jewellery. It used to be the case that you could pick some
> bargains from the stalls during HRR week, view samples of kit, place
> orders for club stuff, but no more (although i did get a bargain at
> the JL stand on one of last seasons coolmax tops on sale).
>
> from what I could see myself the area they were charging for extended
> from the gate by Old Blades up to past the barrier (where I was
> perched on the fence to do my commentary from) up until about the
> first bench downstream of the barrier. I don't think HRR own this
> land, it is Copas land, after that bench i think it is owned by the
> temple island trust who were doing there own trade in private
> riverside mini-enclosures but at least they did not cordon off the
> whole bank. It may be that they were doing a roaring trade and that
> these pitches were quickly snapped up but by whom? by groups of rowdy
> drunken women on hen-parties with no interest in the actual rowing, as
> was the case in front of me? or by genuine rowing enthusiasts who had
> no choice but to pay in order to see some action but have now been put
> off going to watch HRR in future because of these new costs? The
> result I observed of this new development was that the stretch from
> just downstream of the barrier up to the start was overcrowded and
> chaotic and it was real struggle to make one's way up the path at that
> point, again hardly conducive to genuine rowing fans with young
> families, pushchairs, doggies, etc who just want to come and enjoy
> the spectacle and either will not or can not pay out for expensive
> pitches.
>
> I am glad other people are equally appalled by this new feature, do
> the landowners really need to do this to cover the costs of clearing
> up afterwards?
>
> yours, all henley-ed out, Bookie
>
"coach" <richard...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9532d970-d227-4f4f...@b35g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> Due to the complexities of constituancy and local boundaries, the
> regatta does not fall within the juristiction of the authorities in
> Henley. The regatta is held in the constituancy of Maidenhead, whose
> MP is the Home Secretary.
>
> I have taken it upon myself to write to her expressing my hope that
> she can put pressure on the relevant powers:-
>
>
>
> Dear Mrs May,
>
> Although Henley is not your constituency, the Regatta takes place on
> land that is within your constituency and I am writing to you, not
> only as the local MP, but also as the Home Secretary.
>
> I have attended the last 36 Henley Royal Regattas, as a spectator, a
> competitor and now as a coach with the London Rowing Club and have
> observed over the years, the collapse in public order on the Saturday
> Evening.
>
> This year, one of the athletes from my club, was attacked whilst
> leaving the Remenham club, on the river bank simply because he was
> wearing a particularly bright blazer.( awarded in recognition of
> rowing achievements) Another athlete from my club, who had just raced
> in a semi-final, was set upon by some drunken youths demanding has
> wallet, phone and sunglasses whilst returning to his accommodation in
> the town. The injuries that this athlete received necessitated a
> consultation with a specialist followed by over treatment in the Royal
> Berkshire Hospital in Reading and he is unlikely to be able to race at
> our National Championships in ten days time
>
> Two years ago an athlete from Belgium was stabbed and this year’s
> incidents are not isolated cases. It would be a sad day, and very poor
> publicity for the Town of Henley on Thames and the surrounding area,
> if the Stewards of the Regatta, who only have control over a limited
> length of the riverbank, had to issue a warning to all competitors,
> coaches and spectators advising them, for their own safety, not to
> venture down the riverbank.
>
> I hope that you may be able to put some pressure on relevant
> authorities to come up with plan that will in some way maintain the
> relaxed party atmosphere along the riverbank whilst controlling the
> hooligan element that invade the town after racing on the Saturday
> Evening. Henley Royal Regatta is a uniquely British Institution that I
> dearly love. Members of my family have been attending the regatta for
> over one hundred years
>
> I have written a similar letter to your fellow MP Jim Howell in the
> neighbouring constituency.
>
> Yours
>
>
> If any reader of these pages is attending the Commons/Lords boatrace
> being held tomorrow, they might try raising the matter with a friendly
> member of either house.
"Carl Douglas" <ca...@carldouglas.co.uk> wrote in message
news:89ljne...@mid.individual.net...
The Home Secretary is now fully aware of how low matters have sunk and
she has assured me that, as both the local MP and Home Secretary she
will be ensuring that the situation will be reviewed in the lead up to
next year's event.
have just caught up with this thread (neglected rsr since Henley Vets
- sorry) and I like the idea of the Home Secretary finding a cheap
spot for Rock the Boat (and New Wave) for next year so you can come
and root through the sale bins, find a present for folks you didn't
take to the Regatta, and enjoy some "friendly conversation" (Thanks
PDB, didn't realise I'd started to be pleasant and not my usual grumpy
old bag self!), but I suspect that HRR won't want a trade fair on
their land (Lion Meadow etc) as they have their own souvenirs shops at
the event. But the idea is grand.
oh, you meant the rowing and spectating, not the shopping .....oh
well !
Following my letter to the local MP's, I am pleased to report that I
have had a very positive response from Theresa May. She has been in
communication with the Regatta chairman, who has also expressed the
Steward's concerns regarding the public order issues.
The Home Secretary is now fully aware of how low matters have sunk and
she has assured me that, as both the local MP and Home Secretary she
will be ensuring that the situation will be reviewed in the lead up to
next year's event.-
>
> Following my letter to the local MP's, I am pleased to report that I
> have had a very positive response from Theresa May. She has been in
> communication with the Regatta chairman, who has also expressed the
> Steward's concerns regarding the public order issues.
and that's great news ... I am sure the Copas family could do without
all the negative publicity too so they should be involved in any
discussions about improvements for the 2011 Regatta (as should UTRC
and Old Blades who also host bars on their land).
It'd be great to think that well-behaved rowers and townsfolk can
reclaim the Regatta ... but I fear this may only be achieved by
staging something more attractive to the undesirables elsewhere (and
NIMBYism only moves the problem around). (NIMBY = Not In My Back
Yard)
On a related note, I understand Peterborough City RC are closing their
bar at 9pm and not having a party at their August Regatta following
the vandalism at previous events, St Neots had a party on Sat night at
their Regatta but entry was by British Rowing license + 1 guest per
license holder only.
*shakes head, wanders away, muttering in my day .....*