Mileage
sue t.
288 km a week. This was very depressing.
Last year I logged 2000 km on my SpeedCoach ... therefore Mr. Pinsent rows
in two months what I row in 12. I work full-time so usually row four times
a week, except in Nov/Dec when I can get out only twice a week. I
understand that he rows three times a day.
Anyway, it made me wonder ... what mileage do other single scullers row in a
year?
.......................
sue
Henry Law
wrote:
>Last year I logged 2000 km on my SpeedCoach ... therefore Mr. Pinsent rows
>in two months what I row in 12. I work full-time so usually row four times
>a week, except in Nov/Dec when I can get out only twice a week. I
>understand that he rows three times a day.
When I saw figures like these (for other sports but no matter) I
finally understood what "professional" meant. It's not so much that
these athletes are good enough to make a living at whatever-it-is;
it's that to be good enough to compete they haven't time to make a
living at anything else!
--
Henry Law <>< I'm henry (at) thelaws.demon.co.uk
But my "from" address is set to
spam...@thelaws.demon.co.uk
Manchester, England If you send mail there I'll get it eventually
James R.I. Worrell
It is actually interesting to see the juxtaposition in training methodologies
...
Some of the Australian elite crews do only a fraction of the 288km's a week -
under half of this figure!
At some of the team debriefs the odd coach has gotten up and said their
longest rows are 18km ... and more typically 16 ... x 5 and you only get about
100km week. Sure you need to add runs, bike rides, swiss ball, weights .. but
still almost 300km on water is an astonishing number. With one day off that is
48km / day!
J
"sue t." <suth...@islandnet.com> wrote in message
news:10122560...@news.islandnet.com...
Tony Curran
He's got nothing better to do than row. Us mere mortals have to squeeze our
training in before work, after work, lunch times, weekends and when allowed
to by our spouses.
Having said that,up until having lost the coomplete month of January to ome
flu bug and tendinitus in my foot, I was doing 60kms per week on the erg
plus weights twice a week.
Tony
Ottawa RC
"sue t." <suth...@islandnet.com> wrote in message
news:10122560...@news.islandnet.com...
Henning Lippke
a
> year?
Not competitive & just for fun: 2100 km in 2001, small part of it in those
cool wide boats, don't know how they are called in english.
-HL
Stuart Jones
to
> 288 km a week. This was very depressing.
>
Bloody hell... I think as a college VIII (not a pair!) we manage something
like 70-90km in an average week on the water - not at the moment because
it's Red Flag - and about 25km on the ergs each... 288 a week is something
I can only dream (or have nightmares) about!!
Stuart Jones
"Henry Law" <spam...@thelaws.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:29nb5u4qshcqd33or...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:17:32 -0800, "sue t." <suth...@islandnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Last year I logged 2000 km on my SpeedCoach ... therefore Mr. Pinsent
rows
> >in two months what I row in 12. I work full-time so usually row four
times
> >a week, except in Nov/Dec when I can get out only twice a week. I
> >understand that he rows three times a day.
>
> When I saw figures like these (for other sports but no matter) I
> finally understood what "professional" meant. It's not so much that
> these athletes are good enough to make a living at whatever-it-is;
> it's that to be good enough to compete they haven't time to make a
> living at anything else!
Looking at this from a slightly different perspective...... I know that
Pinsent et al are astounding athletes, but time to start a little
controversial debate. Does anyone else think that with the opportunity to
do that much training (i.e. you get sponsorship, live right next to the
river, and eat 2 tonnes of pasta a day) it's almost inevitable that you
could become one of the best in the world?
Stu
(thinking that rowing 48km a day would *easily* lose my deadweight)
David Freeman
"Stuart Jones" <stuart...@univ.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:a36d0p$c82$1...@news.ox.ac.uk...
>
>
> Looking at this from a slightly different perspective...... I know that
> Pinsent et al are astounding athletes, but time to start a little
> controversial debate. Does anyone else think that with the opportunity to
> do that much training (i.e. you get sponsorship, live right next to the
> river, and eat 2 tonnes of pasta a day) it's almost inevitable that you
> could become one of the best in the world?
>
No. Top rowers these days are big guys, and no amount of sponsorship money
or pasta is going to make me taller. :-) Besides which, unless you've got
the mental toughness to make the most of the opportunity to train that much,
plus the confidence in your ability when you're on the start line and a
coach who can take something that to most of us looks pretty perfect and
make it even better, then you're going to be, at the top level anyway, an
also-ran. IMHO, of course.
Dave
j brontey
even how much intense training you really need. It's pretty hard to
argue against Pinsents success, but there is no control. If you
looked at the Danish lightweight four--which was as dominant as any
crew when they were healthy--you would probably find that they trained
fewer kilometers than most of their competitors. Would they have had
more success with more training? It's very difficult to know and
that's why there is research, opinions etc.
Ben
"James R.I. Worrell" <ja...@jamesNO-SPAMworrell.com> wrote in message news:<oHm58.22$NA....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>...
Ewoud Dronkert
> Does anyone else think that with the opportunity to
> do that much training (i.e. you get sponsorship, live right next to the
> river, and eat 2 tonnes of pasta a day) it's almost inevitable that you
> could become one of the best in the world?
No! Not unless you may also select your parents. Most people can master
adequate technique, few have inherited a superior VO2max.
DanDaRower
mileage. Well today is the last day of the school holidays and I'm looking
forward to going back to school and having an excuse to train only twice a
day. 50 kms a day takes more than just time, you need guts, skin, a
tolerance for wet smelly rowsuits and lots and lots of sleep. I'm sure
Pinsent doesn't waste many of these miles away at a leisurely pace.
Anu Dudhia
Stuart Jones
news:3C57B26D...@atm.ox.ac.uk...
OK maybe 2 tonnes was an exaggeration... Sufficient pasta and other
nutrients to keep one alive and able to sustain that level of training...
Volker Mildner
Bet answer to a post I read this month !!!
Volker (checking out new pasta-sauces ...)
Marc Monplaisir
An article released just before the Sydney Olympics stated that Waddell
logged about 210km per week.
When I was training at Undine in Philadelphia, the goal was 100 miles
row/erg/run per week during the early season, less distance + higher
intensity as the season wore on. This is doable on a two-a-day
schedule, with one long row of 14-18 miles on the weekend.
- Marc Monplaisir
Joe Tynan
reason taller rowers are more successful is because they can reach a
good arc more easily. However, a shorter rower can be just as
competitive if they are more flexible.
Heck, with the way most taller rowers tend to dump their blades into
their laps at the finish, any advantage of height is wasted. :)
Joe
"David Freeman" <dfre...@REMOVETOREPLYwoodhill.co.uk> wrote:
To get in contact with me via email, please remove the NOSPAM from the email address.
Joe Tynan
not really that large. In addition, with strenuous training like elite
level rowers do, the body can acutally become more efficient with
oxygen use, thereby compensating for any reduced amount of VO2 max.
I'm reminded of the 2000 Sydney olympics. The gold medalist in one of
the backstroke events was an American who could only use an estimated
60% of his lung capacity, due to asthma. He was not allowed to use
anti-asthmatics because they are steriods. so, he would have to take
oxygen between events in order to re-cuperate.
Joe
"Ewoud Dronkert" <nos...@invalid.info> wrote:
To get in contact with me via email, please remove the NOSPAM from the email address.
chris harrison
says...
There's an interesting article in the latest Peak Performance (which is
at home, so no citations I'm afraid) reporting on some of the findings
from work with US nordic skiers. Their conclusion was that, once you've
reached the top pure volume is no good, you need to up the proportion of
higher intensity. Mileage makes champions, but it's another manifestation
of the law of diminishing returns.
So it'll help you get there, but while yer average Joe Club Rower would
see immense benefits from piling on the low-intensity volumes, after a
year or two, these plateau and you need to increase the proportion of
higher-intensity workouts.
It would be interesting to see if Pinsent, Cracknell et al are still just
plugging away for these 40km a day at UT2, even UT1, or whatever they did
last year - or whether they're sticking at the volume, but upping the
intensity.
--
chris harrison
webmaster, vesta rowing club
http://www.vrc.org.uk/
Nick Suess
"James R.I. Worrell" <ja...@jamesNO-SPAMworrell.com> wrote in message
news:oHm58.22$NA....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
>
methodologies
> ...
>
> Some of the Australian elite crews do only a fraction of the 288km's a
week -
> under half of this figure!
>
> At some of the team debriefs the odd coach has gotten up and said their
> longest rows are 18km ... and more typically 16 ... x 5 and you only get
about
I suppose Xeno trains with those a lot
Philip W.G. Metcalfe
<ja...@jamesNO-SPAMworrell.com> writes
>
>It is actually interesting to see the juxtaposition in training methodologies
>...
>
>methodology is important in them being successful. It is how long they
>took to get there. Scientific research has conclude that it takes eight
>to twelve years of training for a talented athlete to become successful
>as an elite athlete. That is why the ARA has begun Project Oarsome and
>is now starting World Class Start and Potential.
>Phil
--
Philip W.G. Metcalfe
B.
> like 70-90km in an average week on the water - not at the moment because
> it's Red Flag - and about 25km on the ergs each... 288 a week is something
> I can only dream (or have nightmares) about!!
Sounds about right for Oxford torpids training - I'm a novice (as in first
ever events were Nepthys/CHCH Regattas) rowing in a Div 3 boat, and I'd
say before the river closed we did 80K in morning outings in a normal week,
and I was doing half hour ergs on the days I didn't row. My hands were in shreds
(particularly the fingers on my feathering hand) within 10 days, I got out of
the boat one day and there was blood running down my wrists. 80K in an eight is
plenty enough training for me at the moment, even when the river does re-open.
It's a big step up from novice training when anyone with a 2K under 7:45 is a
speed god to getting in a boat with everyone else in the 6:55-7:15 range - I've
found myself falling asleep at 9:30am - after the outing AND breakfast! I can't
believe how enjoyable it is though, I thought nothing would equal my novice crew
for comedy value at 6:00am but I've come to discover that idiotic behaviour in
early morning darkness is a particular trait of rowers! Plus, it's such a buzz
to be in a boat that really moves when it all comes together, there's a real
adrenaline boost even in training.
There is a point to all of this - leave Pinsent and Cracknell to it, let them
do what works best. I guess the mileage is a Jurgen Grobler thing, remember he
was the one that introduced it to the GB squad. We can marvel at their
commitment, but it has to be said there's more to life. I'm happy that I can
row, have a social life (although our entire crew is to my knowledge single,
or in long-distance relationships - I guess having a relationship with
the river eats into your sleep so much that other ones would be difficult to
sustain!) and competently get through my degree. If either of the last two
really started to suffer, I was losing friends or finding myself too tired to
work, I probably wouldn't enjoy rowing nearly as much. I couldn't make a sport
my life, however much an important part of my life it became.
Andy and Abbe Lynch
news:3c58e4d7...@news.qwest.net...
> The difference of VO2 max between an average joe and an elite rower is
> not really that large. In addition, with strenuous training like elite
> level rowers do, the body can acutally become more efficient with
> oxygen use, thereby compensating for any reduced amount of VO2 max.
The difference in VO2max between elite rowers at their fittest and your
"average joe" is almost double. Any given person with proper training can
increase their VO2max 25% or so, maybe a bit more with years of steady and
proper training. But VO2max certainly cannot be increased the 80-100% that
would be needed in order to compensate for any reduced capacity. Elite
rowers and other endurace athletes were born with higher VO2max's than the
average joe. Anyone's physiological capacities can be improved through
training, but everyone also has a certain starting point from which they can
only progress so far. So genetics plays a major role in this.
> I'm reminded of the 2000 Sydney olympics. The gold medalist in one of
> the backstroke events was an American who could only use an estimated
> 60% of his lung capacity, due to asthma. He was not allowed to use
> anti-asthmatics because they are steriods. so, he would have to take
> oxygen between events in order to re-cuperate.
The athlete you're referring to is Tom Dolan and he was a sprinter. His
events were 50-100 or 200 meters and would only last 25 seconds or so to
maybe 1:50. Any all-out effort shorter than about 90 seconds is purely
anaerobic. He needed his lungs to recover from the events but he did not
really need them during the events. If he were to try competing in say an
800m or 1500m event then he'd struggle if he were only utilizing 60% of his
lung capacity.
Andy
Stuart Jones
news:28e2fabc.02020...@posting.google.com...
> > Bloody hell... I think as a college VIII (not a pair!) we manage
something
> > like 70-90km in an average week on the water - not at the moment because
> > it's Red Flag - and about 25km on the ergs each... 288 a week is
something
> > I can only dream (or have nightmares) about!!
> My hands were in shreds
> (particularly the fingers on my feathering hand) within 10 days, I got out
of
> the boat one day and there was blood running down my wrists.
Surgical spirit. And lots of it...
> It's a big step up from novice training when anyone with a 2K under 7:45
is a
> speed god to getting in a boat with everyone else in the 6:55-7:15 range
Hmm, our erg scores are a bit lower than that ;-) Hopefully Trinity's won't
be, but I won't be counting on that alone...
> I've
> found myself falling asleep at 9:30am - after the outing AND breakfast!
9AM Lectures most mornings, have to cycle like a bat out of hell to get from
the river to lectures on time... And I normally doze off...
>I'm happy that I can
> row, have a social life (although our entire crew is to my knowledge
single,
> or in long-distance relationships - I guess having a relationship with
> the river eats into your sleep so much that other ones would be difficult
to
> sustain!) and competently get through my degree.
Hmm... Out of our crew, 4 are in relationships, all (I think) within
Oxford... And I failed my 1st year because I rowed too much... Ahhh
sacrifices... Had to revise soooo hard over the summer to pass the resits
though :-( And I couldn't do Boston Marathon as it was the day before my
resit, grr!
Rob Collings
> And I couldn't do Boston Marathon as it was the day before my
> resit, grr!
What kind of an excuse is that... :-)
Stuart Jones
"Rob Collings" <R.P.Co...@durham.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3C5E49D7...@durham.ac.uk...
Hmm - 3 hour exam the next morning. Pass, and stay at Oxford. Fail, and
get kicked out. Bit of a life-changer that one...
Alexander Lindsay
that surgical spirit is the very worst thing to put on your hands. The
reason they bleed is that you get a blister, and the top layers of skin peel
off. Then you have an area of exposed flesh with either no skin or many
fewer layers. This dries out and cracks, giving deep wounds which bleed.
You cannot avoid the blisters or the skin loss (except by years of
continuous rowing and good technique), but you can prevent the cracking by
keeping the flesh soft. The stuff to do that is lanoline (natural grease
from wool). You can buy it in little tubs from Boots. Don't be fobbed off
with cream; its the thick greasy stuff you want. Its quite cheap, but does
make you smell like a sheep. Not too bad really.
Whereas any spirit will make the raw flesh dryer and harder and just
encourages the cracking.
Good luck in Torpids.
"Stuart Jones" <stuart...@univ.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:a3kl74$r5l$1...@news.ox.ac.uk...
James Lupton
<a_li...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>I have been rowing for 52 years (incl torpids in '58) and I can assure you
>that surgical spirit is the very worst thing to put on your hands. The
>reason they bleed is that you get a blister, and the top layers of skin peel
>off. Then you have an area of exposed flesh with either no skin or many
>fewer layers. This dries out and cracks, giving deep wounds which bleed.
>
>You cannot avoid the blisters or the skin loss (except by years of
>continuous rowing and good technique), but you can prevent the cracking by
>keeping the flesh soft.
The idea is to put surgical spirit or methylated spirit on before the
blister developes, not after. The spirit drys out the skin creating
the same effect as the callouses developed by years of training.
Rubbing it on every day will eventually toughen up the hands, you'll
still get blisters just not as often.
Once the blister has developed surgical spirit will do no more than
hurt alot, but it can be used to sterilise the flesh once the blister
has burst to ensure you don't get an infection.
Anne Harrison
ballet dancer and also a walker, I used to put surgical spirit on my feet,
when I walked the pennine way (270 miles, 3 weeks) I got one blister and
that was because I put my sock on wrong!
j...@durge.org
: Sounds about right for Oxford torpids training - I'm a novice (as in first
: ever events were Nepthys/CHCH Regattas) rowing in a Div 3 boat, and I'd
: say before the river closed we did 80K in morning outings in a normal week,
Are you sure?
I don't doubt your commitment but the maths sounds a bit shaky.
The river is under 2000m in length, so let's be generous and say you get
a full 2K in each trip. There are 7 mornings, so you need to do an
average of around 6 trips a morning.
Now let's be realistic - you're novices. Only one boat out allowed
between 8-9am IIRC. So let's say you get in (a generous) 4 mornings a
week cos of the pressures of getting everyone out. So that is now 10 trips
an outing.
Not that you didn't train hard, far from it!
Just wondering if 80K is a bit much.
: There is a point to all of this - leave Pinsent and Cracknell to it, let them
: do what works best. I guess the mileage is a Jurgen Grobler thing,
Never heard a rowing mantra more widespread than 'mileage makes champions'.
It can't be doubted that without Grobler GB squad would do loads of
water time anyway.
: If either of the last two
: really started to suffer, I was losing friends or finding myself too tired to
: work, I probably wouldn't enjoy rowing nearly as much. I couldn't make a sport
: my life, however much an important part of my life it became.
Didn't Xeno Muller say something like this in a post a while back as
well?
Cheers
Jon
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Durge: j...@durge.org http://www.durge.org/~jon/
OnStream: acco...@rowing.org.uk http://www.rowing.org.uk/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Bennett
Crikey! You get blisters just putting on socks!
Are you sure you weren't drinking the spirit..?
--
Carl Douglas
>B. <pull_ha...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>Not that you didn't train hard, far from it!
>Just wondering if 80K is a bit much.
>
>: There is a point to all of this - leave Pinsent and Cracknell to it, let them
>: do what works best. I guess the mileage is a Jurgen Grobler thing,
>
>Never heard a rowing mantra more widespread than 'mileage makes champions'.
>It can't be doubted that without Grobler GB squad would do loads of
>water time anyway.
IIRC, that goes back to Colin Porter & his confreres in the outstanding
RAF Benson crews of the early '50s & Barn Cottage RC of the later '50s.
Maybe even back to Steve Fairbairn, but I suspect the excellent David
Biddulph will advise?
>
>: If either of the last two
>: really started to suffer, I was losing friends or finding myself too tired to
>: work, I probably wouldn't enjoy rowing nearly as much. I couldn't make a sport
>: my life, however much an important part of my life it became.
>
>Didn't Xeno Muller say something like this in a post a while back as
>well?
Or, put another way, seriously overdoing it might subtly convert that
mantra, via cod Franglais, into 'Mileage make mushrooms'. I understand
that 'Mens sana in corpore sano' is not a bad philosophy.
Cheers -
Carl
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JZ, UK
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 Fax: -466550
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
Anne Harrison
> Crikey! You get blisters just putting on socks!
>
> Are you sure you weren't drinking the spirit..?
They were special walking socks and somehow, I managed to put one on with
the toe twisted, result seam in the wrong position and a blister, it was
most annoying!
Stuart Jones
<j...@durge.org> wrote in message news:a4e9p0$tpp$1...@dolphin.grid-zero.net...
> B. <pull_ha...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> : Sounds about right for Oxford torpids training - I'm a novice (as in
first
> : ever events were Nepthys/CHCH Regattas) rowing in a Div 3 boat, and I'd
> : say before the river closed we did 80K in morning outings in a normal
week,
>
> Are you sure?
> I don't doubt your commitment but the maths sounds a bit shaky.
> The river is under 2000m in length, so let's be generous and say you get
> a full 2K in each trip. There are 7 mornings, so you need to do an
> average of around 6 trips a morning.
> Now let's be realistic - you're novices. Only one boat out allowed
> between 8-9am IIRC. So let's say you get in (a generous) 4 mornings a
> week cos of the pressures of getting everyone out. So that is now 10 trips
> an outing.
>
> Not that you didn't train hard, far from it!
> Just wondering if 80K is a bit much.
At Godstow you can actually fit in 3km per trip if you go down the
channel... 80km = 2x18km/3x12km weekday mornings, and 2x12km each weekend
morning. Not that hard to do really... Plus there's not the 8-9AM rule up
there, and it's less congested...
Stuart Jones
news:3c69a...@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com...
> I have been rowing for 52 years (incl torpids in '58) and I can assure you
> that surgical spirit is the very worst thing to put on your hands. The
> reason they bleed is that you get a blister, and the top layers of skin
peel
> off. Then you have an area of exposed flesh with either no skin or many
> fewer layers. This dries out and cracks, giving deep wounds which bleed.
>
> You cannot avoid the blisters or the skin loss (except by years of
> continuous rowing and good technique), but you can prevent the cracking by
> keeping the flesh soft. The stuff to do that is lanoline (natural grease
> from wool). You can buy it in little tubs from Boots. Don't be fobbed
off
> with cream; its the thick greasy stuff you want. Its quite cheap, but
does
> make you smell like a sheep. Not too bad really.
>
> Whereas any spirit will make the raw flesh dryer and harder and just
> encourages the cracking.
I don't know if the make-up of surgical spirit that I use is different, but
mine is 95% industrial methylated spirits, 2.5% castor oil, 2.5% other
stuff. The castor oil, I find, makes my hands softer, while the spirit
makes them tougher. My callouses are now hard, but not painful, and I
haven't had a blister or any sort of wound from rowing since I started using
the stuff... Quote the bottle: "Surgical spirit acts to tightenn, harden
and disinfect the outer layer of the skin. It also contains castor oil to
help prevent dryness and cracking". I've even started using it on my leg,
where the slide in my boat rubs, and it's sorted that out a treat too!
> Good luck in Torpids.
Cheers. Everyone seems to be entering now, with only 27 hours to the
deadline for entries. And I have to deal with it all. Fun.
David Biddulph
news:UtZ88DA4...@rowing-cdrs.demon.co.uk...
> j...@durge.org writes
> >B. <pull_ha...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> <snip>
> >Not that you didn't train hard, far from it!
> >Just wondering if 80K is a bit much.
> >
> >: There is a point to all of this - leave Pinsent and Cracknell to
it, let them
> >: do what works best. I guess the mileage is a Jurgen Grobler thing,
> >
> >Never heard a rowing mantra more widespread than 'mileage makes
champions'.
> >It can't be doubted that without Grobler GB squad would do loads of
> >water time anyway.
>
> IIRC, that goes back to Colin Porter & his confreres in the
outstanding
> RAF Benson crews of the early '50s & Barn Cottage RC of the later
'50s.
> Maybe even back to Steve Fairbairn, but I suspect the excellent David
> Biddulph will advise?
Couldn't resist such a kind invitation, Carl.
Yes, there it is, on page 214 of the 1990 edition of "The Complete Steve
Fairbairn on Rowing", in a note entitled (not surprisingly) "Long
Paddles" in his "Rowing Notes". The phrase appears again as the theme
of "Chat XIV" in "Chats on Rowing", pages 447 onwards in the same
edition, and yet again on page 463 in the final paragraph of the final
"chat". It may appear elsewhere, as Steve makes no apology for
repeating the points he considers important.
Even as an LMBC man considering the coach of Jesus, I can't help
appreciating the man's influence. Much of what he wrote almost a
hundred years ago is equally applicable today.
--
David Biddulph
Rowing web pages at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/david_biddulph/
http://www.biddulph.org.uk/
Trevor Chambers
> j...@durge.org writes
> >B. <pull_ha...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> <snip>
> >Not that you didn't train hard, far from it!
> >Just wondering if 80K is a bit much.
> >
> >: There is a point to all of this - leave Pinsent and Cracknell to it, let them
> >: do what works best. I guess the mileage is a Jurgen Grobler thing,
> >
> >Never heard a rowing mantra more widespread than 'mileage makes champions'.
> >It can't be doubted that without Grobler GB squad would do loads of
> >water time anyway.
>
> IIRC, that goes back to Colin Porter & his confreres in the outstanding
> RAF Benson crews of the early '50s & Barn Cottage RC of the later '50s.
> Maybe even back to Steve Fairbairn, but I suspect the excellent David
> Biddulph will advise?
Ah...."Rowing To Win"...my life changed when I found this book, gathering dust in the
vaults of the university library...the RAF versus the dastardly Krylia Sovetov....
Trevor
Sudbury RC