GPS Garmin Forerunner or Edge 305 for rowing?
Mike De Petris
training?
The difference between the Edge and Forerunner AFAIK is that Edge has
barometric altimeter and a bigger display that makes it more suitable
to fit in a boat, but it only has bike attachment, so I see no way to
use it for running. Price is similar and all functions are the same,
except for the altimeter.
Obviously on the bike there is no problem as the Forerunner can be
easily mounted and *seen* on the handlebar.
As running is a big part of training, I ask you all if you think it
would be better to:
1- try to tie the Edge on the wrist for running, standing with its
size and weight
2- tie the forerunner on the boat footplate and try to read it
3- row and scull with the forerunner on the wrist
I would go for option (1) as I prefer having a small annoyance when
running but having the best in the boat (and bike)
andy....@ge.com
The forerunner shows pace per km, and the edge (although easier to
mount) only shows speed.
Apart from that they are pretty much the same so it really depends if
you want speed or pace, wrist or boat mounted, and if you intend to
use it for cycling/running as well. Both will do the job.
When I've used a wrist strap gps in the boat I just straped it on to
the footplate or bar with some sponge/rag under it to pad out enough
to tighten the wrist strap and stop it moving.
Stamps
>
> - Show quoted text -
The Forerunner has pace, speed, ave pace, ave speed and loads more.
Auto start is useful for timed pieces from a standing start, and I
find it very easy to attach to the boat - I tie it to my shoes and it
is pretty easy to see the screen. All in all does the job well, and
also good for running.
Stamps
Rob Collings
> The Forerunner has pace, speed, ave pace, ave speed and loads more.
> Auto start is useful for timed pieces from a standing start, and I
> find it very easy to attach to the boat - I tie it to my shoes and it
> is pretty easy to see the screen. All in all does the job well, and
> also good for running.
Is that the new ones (x05 series)? I have an older forerunner that
I've been thinking about replacing - there are too many buildings and
trees around town to get reliable readings. That one (a 201 I think)
does speed and pace but everything I can find on the newer series
suggests that the forerunner only does pace and the edge only does
speed. I don't see why they've done that, it's a pain in the backside
and it's not like it would be hard for them to support both stats.
I'm tending towards the Edge because it would be spend more time on my
bike than on me running and when I want to run I can just put it in an
armband or some such thing.
Rob.
Mike De Petris
> The Forerunner has pace, speed, ave pace, ave speed and loads more.
> Auto start is useful for timed pieces from a standing start, and I
> find it very easy to attach to the boat - I tie it to my shoes and it
> is pretty easy to see the screen. All in all does the job well, and
> also good for running.
if you say there is no problem reading numbers of the forerunner on
the footplate then there is no doubt this is the best solution
paul_v...@hotmail.com
We've been using Forerunner 201's for a few seasons and they work
great, as many people as want to can have feedback, always accurate as
long as the body of water is still, have a light for when it's dark
out (now), can mount on a bar easily (or the oarshaft works well),
"smoothing" set to 'least' seems to work best for close to real time
changes. We use the pace readout normally, but there have been foggy
mornings where the map mode gets us back home when visibility is less
than 100ft. Also reviewing your course for straightness, if that is
what you were trying for, is very handy to see if that pesky "slight
turn to starboard" has been fixed.
- Paul Smith
simonk
(in article <1194877227.0...@o38g2000hse.googlegroups.com>):
> On 12 Nov, 14:10, Stamps <stamps4...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> The Forerunner has pace, speed, ave pace, ave speed and loads more.
>> Auto start is useful for timed pieces from a standing start, and I
>> find it very easy to attach to the boat - I tie it to my shoes and it
>> is pretty easy to see the screen. All in all does the job well, and
>> also good for running.
>
> Is that the new ones (x05 series)? I have an older forerunner that
> I've been thinking about replacing - there are too many buildings and
> trees around town to get reliable readings. That one (a 201 I think)
> does speed and pace but everything I can find on the newer series
> suggests that the forerunner only does pace and the edge only does
> speed. I don't see why they've done that, it's a pain in the backside
> and it's not like it would be hard for them to support both stats.
The x05 series are supposed to be much better at dealing with interference
from buildings, trees, etc.
My experience with the 201 suggests that they're of limited use in a boat -
on a moving body of water the speed and distance are essentially irrelevant,
and on a rowing lake you may well be able to judge your speed from distance
markers on the bank if present.
Position is sampled every few (arbitrary) seconds to work out speed, with the
result that if you try to analyse your pace on your PC afterwards, your speed
seems to jump around because the samples aren't taken consistently with
respect to the surging of the boat speed. In the boat, you can use a
smoothing setting to keep the display sane, but IME you need to have this set
aggressively high, which can then mask the effects of pushes - or delay the
realisation that you're slowing down until it's too late :D
A GPS that's integrated somehow into the mechanics of the stroke (e.g. by
sensing the stroke rate and trying to sample position at a consistent point
in the stroke) might be interesting, though.
--
simonk
Stamps
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:20:27 +0000, Rob Collings wrote
I have the 305 so use it for heart rate too. Yes it isn't brilliant at
immediate feedback - I actually leave it on a high smoothing setting
as find it jumps around too much otherwise, and mainly use it for
reviewing pace after outings - judging improvement outing to outing
rather than immediately on the water other than the odd glance, given
I have enough to think about with stroke rate, technique, steering,
avoiding muppet canoes etc etc. On the water I use it for distance vs
time - even though we have good distance markers I find it useful. Eg
I can do 3k and get exact (near enough) intermediate distance and
times for the piece, wind down, spin, reset, go off again and get
comparable measurements. Relying on a watch or the bank markings is
slightly harder (though not that hard).
It can do pace and speed, but not at the same time. Some of the
display options (you can see 4 at the same time): time, lap time, ave
lap time, distance, lap distance, elevation (not usually required when
rowing...), heart rate, ave heart rate, lap heart rate, pace, ave
pace, lap pace, max pace, speed, ave speed, lap speed, max speed etc.
You can't display speed and pace together (I 'think' I had that option
before a recent software upgrade but not sure - you now need to choose
bike mode to be able to select speed). But anyway easy enough to do a
bit of maths in your head if you want both eh?
It is a good tool, and the small neat unit is perfect for running or
rowing. My only problem is the reception takes a while to pick up
sometimes - due to HK's high buildings perhaps, but I've also noticed
that it can struggle even out on the river when the air is more
polluted - hard to blame that on the GPS unit though!!
Stamps
Mike De Petris
> > >> The Forerunner has pace, speed, ave pace, ave speed and loads more.
> I have the 305 so use it for heart rate too. Yes it isn't brilliant at
so I guess it is a Forerunner (not Edge), do you tie it at the
footplate? Is it readable?
Jake
function.
Last time I tried one on a boat (a Magellan Mapping GPS in a single)
it just read 7.7- 6.2- 7.7- 6.2 -7.7 - 6.2 etc. which was incredibly
offputting and I never used it again for sculling.
There's always a case for knowing your speed through the water though,
especially in tidal areas, but the resistance of the speedcoach
impeller is always a nagging doubt and it picks up seaweed, so I
wonder whether to try a GPS instead now that the sampling time can be
adjusted.
rrcjab
I've been using the forerunner 305 for about 18 months now and can't
say enough good things about it. I use it for rowing/sculling,
running, biking and xc skiing. By far the most useful aspect is that I
can use the same device for all sports. I just turn it on and go. I
can even use it while coaching to measure other boats' speeds.
Sometimes it takes a few minutes to find the satellites, especially if
I'm far away from the last location, but it always gets there
eventually. They even sell a footpod now so you can run on a treadmill
indoors, if that's your thing.
My only two (small) complaints are that you can only set it to pace
per 1km, not per 500m and that the computer software is not as
advanced as I would like.
I have no problem reading the numbers when it is strapped to the
middle of the footstretchers. I like it so much that I didn't even put
an impeller on my new shell.
bacch...@gmail.com
Has anyone yet tried using the cadence accessory to jury rig a stroke
count? I assume you would put the small magnet on the oar, and the
wireless counter somewhere on the rigging? Maybe it would double
count as it passes both ways, but maybe not as we feather the oar,
depending on its sensitivity.
I only bike, hike and row, (no running) so I wonder whether the Edge
or the Forerunner is the better form factor (each being the model
305).
Mike De Petris
> Has anyone yet tried using the cadence accessory to jury rig a stroke
> count? I assume you would put the small magnet on the oar, and the
> wireless counter somewhere on the rigging? Maybe it would double
> count as it passes both ways, but maybe not as we feather the oar,
> depending on its sensitivity.
this is an old subject, somebody did it with cyclecomputers fitting
the sensor at the end (or beginning) of the slide, others found
computers able to be set at the right wheel crf to cope with the
double passing, it would be good to know about the Garmin
> I only bike, hike and row, (no running) so I wonder whether the Edge
> or the Forerunner is the better form factor (each being the model
> 305).
rrjab has just convinced us a Forerunner is better. Who knows if he
can thest the cadence sensor in the boat too to read stroke rates?
rrcjab
> can thest the cadence sensor in the boat too to read stroke rates?
I have never tried the edge, so I can't comment on that. I do own the
cadence sensor for the bicycle, so when I get some spare time, I will
try a few locations on my single and report back.
anatol...@abdm.co.uk
sculling.
I have found it useful for monitoring my progress and giving me the
ability to log similar pieces and see how they compare. I also used it
for the Boston marathon and it clearly showed the effects of the
strong southerly wind that knocked a good 3km/h off our speed when
head on. The GPS is pretty accurate, and the mapping onto google maps
gets you onto the right river, even if it isn't always on the right
side of it.
On the boat it makes a good timer with a clear display on which you
can show the information you want.
I hope to be able to do two other things which I haven't mastered yet:
1. to fix the cadence sensor to my seat so that I can record stroke
rate
2. to set up the course settings properly, so that it can record set
courses and time them without having to trigger the start and the
finish. - this could then be used for multiple boats for timing
sprints over the course of an afternoon just by dropping the device
into each boat and then downloading the whole lot at the end of the
day.
In summary, I would say that the Garmin 305 is a brilliant little box.
The Garmin Training Center software is very rudimentary and the online
software is not much better. Setting courses up and trimming data is
pretty limited - so this could be improved. The link to Google maps is
just stunning, but I'll probably get over that soon. I await the next
software update and I'll update this thread with any more
developments.
Anatole
Mike De Petris
<anatolebe...@abdm.co.uk> wrote:
> I have the Garmin 305 which I have been using as a training aid for
> sculling.
> In summary, I would say that the Garmin 305 is a brilliant little box.
Forerunner or Edge ??
Stamps
Forerunner, which several people do mention in their posts...........
To sum up all the posts on that device - it works so get it.
Mike De Petris
> > Forerunner or Edge ??
>
> Forerunner, which several people do mention in their posts...........
>
> To sum up all the posts on that device - it works so get it.
ok, I'm looking for a friend in the us to send me one :-)
Mike De Petris
noooooooooooo, just got this email:
***************************************
> Forerunner or Edge ??
Nope, it's a Garmin 305 Edge
The display on the forerunner is too small.
***************************************
so I am at the strating point again!!
frees...@gmail.com
my preference assuming it can be mounted simply and easily, and move
between boats easily. I like the idea of the bigger display for sure.
Anyone have any issues temporarily mounting it?
I think the forerunner has more mind share since it came out first
If we can get the cadence sensor on the slide, that would be great.
paul_v...@hotmail.com
The Display on the Edge looks to be about like what I see on my other
Garmin GPS unit, which is quite small characters, but I haven't seen
the Edge in person so perhaps it's different. OTOH The Top screen of
the Forerunner 201 is large enough to make out when mounted on the
Rigger Cross piece (about the same as the foot stretcher for distance)
even when it is getting rained on and water droplets are present.
Those drops do cause the lower displays (much smaller digits) to be
difficult to make out, but those are about the size that I see on hand
held Garmin units.
The Mini-rate from rowdata works out well if you really want to have
an instant rate, in fact that same technology would probably be the
most promising for bringing stroke rate into a GPS unit. It would
serve double duty as a way to end up with a better instant speed
readout applicable to rowing, requiring less 'smoothing' than the
current method with fixed update intervals.
- Paul Smith
anatol...@abdm.co.uk
In the kit they supply you with 2 mounts which can be mounted on any
horizontal bar such as a bicycle handlebar or turned around to mount
on the handle bar stem. On my boat this is a doddle since I have just
mounted it on top of the wing rigger by using some longer cable ties.
The mount has a rubber back so it us very secure (although it does
have to be said that it has no lanyard, and doesn't float well so it
could get knocked off).
The two big front control buttons are easily used - it's even possible
to get one on the recovery if the height and position is just right,
but it doesn't help your stroke much.
The cadence sensor has no cables as it connects using bluetooth. It
has a block that is smaller than a matchbox which mounts using cable
ties to the fork on a bicycle and two magnets, one that clips to a
spoke and the other cable ties to the crank. For a boat the block
could be mounted on the seat carriage and the crank magnet stuck to
the boat to pick up the stroke rate.
This I have yet to do as my cadence sensor seems to be a dud and I
have to get it replaced!
Anatole
anatol...@abdm.co.uk
http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/garmin-edge-305-gps.php
cheers - Anatole
Mike De Petris
> the Forerunner 201 is large enough to make out when mounted on the
> readout applicable to rowing, requiring less 'smoothing' than the
> current method with fixed update intervals.
we were talking about the 305 model tough, that has a much better gps
Mike De Petris
<anatolebe...@abdm.co.uk> wrote:
> Take a look at this review - in depth with piks.
> http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/garmin-edge-305-gps.php
This is my same question by paddlers
http://race.fit2paddle.com/C1159474119/E20060419083451/index.html
that took me to this interesting paddling experience that convinced me
Edge is better for rowing, btw it seems Forerunner could be readable
too and much better in running
will I end buying both? O____O
Mike De Petris
> Edge is better for rowing, btw it seems Forerunner could be readable
> too and much better in running
forgot the link sorry
http://race.fit2paddle.com/C1159474119/E20061210100205/index.html
> will I end buying both? O____O
... having the money....
Mike De Petris
> > that took me to this interesting paddling experience that convinced me
> > Edge is better for rowing, btw it seems Forerunner could be readable
> > too and much better in running
>
>
> > will I end buying both? O____O
>
> ... having the money....
found now!!!!!!
http://daily-erg-workout.blogspot.com/2006/07/garmin-interview-about-gps-and-rowing.html
Mike De Petris
Mike De Petris
> > found now!!!!!!http://daily-erg-workout.blogspot.com/2006/07/garmin-interview-about-...
>
and another question for rowers ho have a Garmin 305, what about the
heartrate monitor? I've read it reported as the weak point of the
garmin 305 but it would be too good having all in one and recording
all data in une session, but is the unit (Forerunner or Edge) at the
distance given by the transmitter position in respect to the
footplate?
Stamps
Right, this is my last post on this topic! The Forerunner works great
for rowing. It is easy to attach, the GPS does pace and speed, the
heart rate strap works perfectly well, on the same screen you can see
speed (or pace), time, heart rate and distance. Job done, and it is a
compact unit that is ideal for running too. Or using indoors, or
running up hills. It includes a TV, DVD player/recorder, phone, mp3
player, and will brew you a fine cup of coffee too.
Mike De Petris
> Right, this is my last post on this topic! The Forerunner works great
> for rowing. It is easy to attach, the GPS does pace and speed, the
> heart rate strap works perfectly well, on the same screen you can see
> speed (or pace), time, heart rate and distance. Job done, and it is a
> compact unit that is ideal for running too. Or using indoors, or
> running up hills. It includes a TV, DVD player/recorder, phone, mp3
> player, and will brew you a fine cup of coffee too.
ROTFL
:-D
Dan Andrews
Either way you can upload your Garmin boating routes at http://www.routiki.com
. Watch how easy this is on this video -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL34rHlex6M
.
A number of my running friends are very happy with their Forerunners
and if you are also running then you might find the Forerunners more
comfortable. Good luck with your training.
Regards,
Dan
On Nov 12, 4:21 am, Mike De Petris <mikedepet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> These tools are going really cheap and good, but which is the best for
> training?
>
> The difference between the Edge andForerunnerAFAIK is that Edge has
> barometric altimeter and a bigger display that makes it more suitable
> to fit in a boat, but it only has bike attachment, so I see no way to
> use it for running. Price is similar and all functions are the same,
> except for the altimeter.
> Obviously on the bike there is no problem as theForerunnercan be
> easily mounted and *seen* on the handlebar.
>
> As running is a big part of training, I ask you all if you think it
> would be better to:
> 1- try to tie the Edge on the wrist for running, standing with its
> size and weight
> 2- tie theforerunneron the boat footplate and try to read it
> 3- row and scull with theforerunneron the wrist
>
> I would go for option (1) as I prefer having a small annoyance when
> running but having the best in the boat (and bike)