How to stop Rushing?
Trevor Chambers
I'm coaching a crew who seem to have suddenly a tendency to rush on the
recovery....they spend too long at backstops and then rush to make it
up, rather than being smooth and flowing.
I've tried all the exercises/drills I can think of to work on this, can
anyone outline something whihc they think works?
Thanks
Trevor
Sudbury RC
Neil Selby
: Help!
: I'm coaching a crew who seem to have suddenly a tendency to rush on the
: recovery....they spend too long at backstops and then rush to make it
: up, rather than being smooth and flowing.
Isn't this Carl Douglas recommended technique? :)
: I've tried all the exercises/drills I can think of to work on this, can
: anyone outline something whihc they think works?
1) have you tried making them count out loud on the recovery (i. one thousand,
two thousand, etc.) I've made crews shout this out very loud and the
embarrassment factor often does the trick.
2) try focusing on the catch rather than the approach. They probably don't
realise that there's a huge gap between when they hit fronstops and
when the blade goes into the water. You can do this exercise on an erg
where you get the rower to shout out when (they think) their seat stops
moving at the catch. You then try to synchronise this with the point at
which the seat actually stops moving, and then with the point at which they
take up the pressure of the handle in the fingers. You can do this in
the boat as well. This usually works to control the slide because you
just can't synchronize all this at high speed!
cheers,
Neil
Silver Fox
>
> Help!
>
> I'm coaching a crew who seem to have suddenly a tendency to rush on the
> recovery....they spend too long at backstops and then rush to make it
> up, rather than being smooth and flowing.
>
> anyone outline something whihc they think works?
>
>
> Trevor
>
> Sudbury RC
You have struck one of rowings great mysteries. I bet that everytime you
have asked them to slow it into the front stop the reverse happens ie
they slow it down coming off the backstop and rush even faster into the
frontstop and will promptly swear on a stack of bibles that they are
controlling the speed into the front stop.
I have no idea what causes the illusion. The first course of action I
have used is making them, the crew, aware that an illusion exists and to
continually remind them of it and harp on about slide control etc.
Ask the stroke what he/she feels is happining. If he/she says they feel
they have to rush forward to stay in time with those behind then its
time to talk to the stroke and explain they set the pace that others are
to follow and if others in the crew are early it is their problem not
the stroke. Of course this scenerio is a vicious circle because the crew
think the strokes getting faster so they have to rush to catch up, the
stroke thinks he/she has to go faster to catch up to the rest of the
crew and so on.
Other options are re-arrange the crew seating.
If all else fails then tell them if they are going to race the slide
forward then they are going to have to race it even faster back ie work
the arse of the bastards, eventually they will want to go slow!!!!!
Silver Fox
Jesper Krog
the seat follow the speed of the arms.
Have them remember to build up power in the legs for the next stroke, just
like a spring, then they have to slow down on the seat coming up to the
approach.
Jesper Krog
Adriaan Koster
>
> Help!
>
> I'm coaching a crew who seem to have suddenly a tendency to rush on the
> recovery....they spend too long at backstops and then rush to make it
> up, rather than being smooth and flowing.
>
> I've tried all the exercises/drills I can think of to work on this, can
> anyone outline something whihc they think works?
For starters I try never to emphasize the "don't rush, you sick
bastards!" type of coaching, because that leads to dramatic slowing down
and waiting before the catch.
To get them to do what we all want, I usually emphasize:
* finishing the stroke while feet are still pressing down on the
stretcher. Why? If rowers lose pressure at the end of the stroke they
usually end up wasting time trying to extract the blade and turning the
hands around, this wasted time is then made up by rushing the slides. I
often coach this by telling them to keep the stroke short at the finish
(and long at the catch).
* Quick hands away, keep the turning motion going around the finish and
end the stroke in "stop 3" (the moment right before you start sliding).
* watch the seat of the rower before you and start sliding at the same
moment as him/her
* visualize not "sliding towards the catch" but letting the boat run
underneath you until the blade is in the water. Feel your feet coming
towards you during the recover, relax all leg muscles (and upper body as
well). If the leg muscles are relaxed, a crew can recover together much
more easily because you can feel what the boat is doing (i.e. how the
crew is recovering) and don't have to control your own sliding speed
actively.
* keep sliding until the blade is in the water, don't hesitate, slow
down or drop the hands before the catch. Visualize the hands moving
towards the catch in a straight line right from the extraction of the
blade. (i.e. plan ahead, visualize the precise place and moment of
catching when you start recovering).
This type of coaching approach is based on explanation of one of the
above issues (not more than 1 at a time!) when the crew is not rowing,
and then very frequent feedback on the issue when the crew is rowing. I
always try to coach this aspect for the complete crew, and don't single
out individual rowers. In my experience the crew cannot focus on rowing
together (essential for a smooth crew recovery) if the rowers are being
coached individually.
The only drill I use for this is "stop 3" every stroke. Usually I let 2
rowers balance the boat while the rest pause right before sliding
commences, each stroke. The cox calls out "go" after each pause. Doing
this drill with square blades allows for more focus on the simplicity of
the motion, without the usual feathering difficulties. You could do
"stop 3" squared blades first and then "stop 3" with feathering.
Good luck,
A3aan.
Nick Suess
Adriaan Koster <a3...@tryllian.com> wrote in message
news:39800D74...@tryllian.com...
> Trevor Chambers wrote:
> >
> > Help!
> >
> > I'm coaching a crew who seem to have suddenly a tendency to rush on the
> > recovery....they spend too long at backstops and then rush to make it
> > up, rather than being smooth and flowing.
> >
> > I've tried all the exercises/drills I can think of to work on this, can
> > anyone outline something whihc they think works?
>
> For starters I try never to emphasize the "don't rush, you sick
> bastards!" type of coaching,
Why not? All rowers are sick bastards, qed.
>
> To get them to do what we all want, I usually emphasize:
>
> * finishing the stroke while feet are still pressing down on the
> stretcher. Why? If rowers lose pressure at the end of the stroke they
> usually end up wasting time trying to extract the blade and turning the
> hands around, this wasted time is then made up by rushing the slides. I
> often coach this by telling them to keep the stroke short at the finish
> (and long at the catch).
snipped a lot
I reckon the old trick of rowing with their feet out of the shoes should
have some good effect. At least they'll be working on a clean fast finish
and feeling for positive contact with the footstretcher instead of trying to
hoik themselves forwards at 100 miles an hour.
Ken
>* finishing the stroke while feet are still pressing down on the
>stretcher
This I don't understand. If you are at the end of the stroke (i.e.
knees down, laid back, elbows bent), then the only force opposing the
pressure of the feet on the stretcher is the pull of the hands. If
the hands are still putting pressure on the power face of the blades
(as opposed to the forward face), doesn't this interfere with tapping
the handles down to start the recovery?
Ken
(to reply via email
remove "zz" from address)
Felipe
Nick Suess <ni...@scull.com.au> wrote in message
news:39801969$0$22...@motown.iinet.net.au...
>
> Adriaan Koster <a3...@tryllian.com> wrote in message
> news:39800D74...@tryllian.com...
> > Trevor Chambers wrote:
> > >
[snip]
> snipped a lot
>
> I reckon the old trick of rowing with their feet out of the shoes should
> have some good effect. At least they'll be working on a clean fast finish
> and feeling for positive contact with the footstretcher instead of trying
to
> hoik themselves forwards at 100 miles an hour.
Just out of curiousity, is "hoik" a Welsh term ... ?
Neil Selby
: Just out of curiousity, is "hoik" a Welsh term ... ?
Yes. It's a term relating to the noise in the back of the throat
used when pronouncing a language which appears to have misplaced all
its vowels.
cheers,
Neil
Felipe
Ken <cprst...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:39802574...@news-server.optonline.net...
The short answer is, it's a mystery. But once a rower stops putting
pressure on the oar, the water behind (to the bow) of the oar catches up to
it and pushes the oarhandle into the rower, making extraction difficult.
For my part, I find it almost impossible to extract the blades cleanly
unless I keep pressure all through the stroke. And I was only able to do
this after oodles of feet-out rowing. Excessive sequence and lay-back make
it more difficult.
But if the blades don't come out cleanly, then I at least tend to spend more
time in bow futzing with the extraction, and tend to rush the slide more.
Adriaan Koster
> > For starters I try never to emphasize the "don't rush, you sick
> > bastards!" type of coaching,
>
> Why not? All rowers are sick bastards, qed.
You are of course right.
But being right does not make you a good coach, the point is to trick
them to do what you want to see.
> snipped a lot
you rotter! (0:
> I reckon the old trick of rowing with their feet out of the shoes should
> have some good effect. At least they'll be working on a clean fast finish
> and feeling for positive contact with the footstretcher instead of trying to
> hoik themselves forwards at 100 miles an hour.
Yesterday I went for a scull (would you believe that?) and started out
feet out and kept at it for 1 km. Amazing effect because I hadn't been
in a boat for about a week so I could adapt to the feet out feeling from
fresh. The problem of the exercise is that I tend to come to a
standstill momentarily at the finish if lose pressure a little. It needs
constant concentration to do it right.
I don't really think pulling on the feet is the main problem in
combatting rushing the slides (and with feet out many rowers manage to
pull on their feet in the heelcups anyway). I feel the main problem is
slow turning and hands-away at the finish, then catching-up and the
worst: slowing down again before the catch because the rower does not
feel ready to put the blade in.
So: Rushing the slides is not a problem, as long as you don't slow down
in the final part of the recovery!
A3aan.
Adriaan Koster
Adriaan Koster
Adriaan Koster
Adriaan Koster
Adriaan Koster
Adriaan Koster
Adriaan Koster
Adriaan Koster
Adriaan Koster
Adriaan Koster
Ron Ingraham
the good fortune to have as a coach one Donald Webber-Plank, I believe 3 or
4 time winner of the Canadian Henley. His tip for controlling the slide was
"Draw the Boat to You!!", as opposed to pulling the seat aft. It goes along
with the idea of allowing the boat to run under you. Along with relaxation
during the recovery, this concept made a tremendous difference for me.
Ron Ingraham
Island Rowing Club
Merritt Island, Florida
Ken
recommends an exercise where you push on the handles to break out the
blades. And it works!
Gareth G Price
the slow hands problem so my solution is square blades feet out if this
don't solve it I'd look at the body positions in the boat at the finish and
how there approaching the catch could be why there doing the slow hands at
the finish.
--
GAZA
The one The only rowing's my everything
Silver Fox <f...@voyager.co.nz> wrote in message
news:398108...@voyager.co.nz...
> Trevor Chambers wrote:
> >
> > Help!
> >
> > I'm coaching a crew who seem to have suddenly a tendency to rush on the
> > recovery....they spend too long at backstops and then rush to make it
> > up, rather than being smooth and flowing.
> >
> > I've tried all the exercises/drills I can think of to work on this, can
> > anyone outline something whihc they think works?
> >
Felipe
the stroke. At one point he discusses where the stroke ends, i.e. where to
finish, and I think he says "the thickness of a tee-shirt" should separate
the scull handles from the sculler.
Ken <cprst...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3980542e...@news-server.optonline.net...
liz
> the slow hands problem so my solution is square blades feet
Ahhhh, an excellent exercise... not just good for the rowers - but VERY
entertaining for the coach.. one of my favourites for humiliating novices,
simply introduce firm pressure and you're guaranteed a side splitting
outing.
Any other suggestions on fun exercises...
liz
Michael Sullivan
>
> Help!
>
> I'm coaching a crew who seem to have suddenly a tendency to rush on the
> recovery....they spend too long at backstops and then rush to make it
> up, rather than being smooth and flowing.
>
> I've tried all the exercises/drills I can think of to work on this, can
> anyone outline something whihc they think works?
I recommend sardonic humor.
JD's line of telling a crew their slide control was like
'Godzilla on a skateboard' still gets a chuckle out of me.
Somehow I got the picture in my head that the approach to
the catch was like kissing my grandmother Agnes (she was
a dead ringer for Jabba the Hutt). You approach her
really slow, quick peck and get the hell out of there.
The flaw with this approach, though, was trying to keep
my eyes open...
Mike
edgar cove
<a3...@tryllian.com> writes
<good stuff snipped>
>* watch the seat of the rower before you and start sliding at the same
>moment as him/her
I would have thought that it was more important to be watching stroke's
blade enter the water and try to enter at the same time than to be
watching his slide. One cannot really be watching both at the same
time.
--
edgar (remove nospam from return address for e-mail reply)
edgar cove
<cprst...@optonline.net> writes
>Now I'm really confused. In the Sculler at Ease, Cunningham
>recommends an exercise where you push on the handles to break out the
>blades. And it works!
Sounds really crude and likely to slow down the boat.
Many years ago my coach pointed out that the blades would leave the
water of their own accord if you started to feather them at the end of
the stroke. The flow of water past the boat then flips them cleanly
out.
But I am not sure if I rely on that or otherwise how could I ever scull
an exercise with square blades?
Cynthia Donnell
>
>
from www.google.com
... hoick Verb Slang To spit. When Don heard that Baldwin had actually
made...
home.echo-on.net/~buzzcorr/HOICK%20(SLANG)%20-%20LINGO.htm - 2k - Cached -
Similar pages
hoick
... hoick Verb British informal To lift or pull abruptly or with some
effort...
...or domestic of his to go down and hoick out a pearl. 1911 Chambers’s...
home.echo-on.net/~buzzcorr/HOICK%20(INFORMAL)%20-%20LINGO.htm - 4k -
Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from home.echo-on.net ]
Cindy Donnell
Felipe wrote in message <8lp945$r...@ftp.ee.vill.edu>...
>
>Nick Suess <ni...@scull.com.au> wrote in message
>news:39801969$0$22...@motown.iinet.net.au...
>>
>> Adriaan Koster <a3...@tryllian.com> wrote in message
>> news:39800D74...@tryllian.com...
>> > Trevor Chambers wrote:
>> > >
>
>[snip]
>
>> snipped a lot
>>
Andrew Thornely
Silver Fox <f...@voyager.co.nz> wrote in message
(snip)
> Other options are re-arrange the crew seating.
>
> If all else fails then tell them if they are going to race the slide
> forward then they are going to have to race it even faster back ie work
> the arse of the bastards, eventually they will want to go slow!!!!!
>
> Silver Fox
I try to find a stroke person who can impose a rhythm on the crew, this
takes some bloody mindedness from the stroke person at first until people
begin to get the message.
Andy
Derek Parsons
with stern pair and adding and dropping a rower all the way down the
boat. Example, Once I am happy with how they row by pair at 6&5 I have
5&4 row together.
Once they do this I have them row by fours, but still thinking about
rowing by pairs. stern four, then middle four, then bow four. Again,
once they do this right I let them row by eight and then we do it all
over again. Remember you can't go fast unless they do it together so
spend some time every day making them do it together. Then move into
doing your workout. Get them used to it and they will do it all the
time.
Derek Parsons
W-L Crew
Trevor Chambers wrote:
>
> Help!
>
> I'm coaching a crew who seem to have suddenly a tendency to rush on the
> recovery....they spend too long at backstops and then rush to make it
> up, rather than being smooth and flowing.
>
> I've tried all the exercises/drills I can think of to work on this, can
> anyone outline something whihc they think works?
>
> Thanks
>
> Trevor
>
> Sudbury RC
Derek Parsons
Silver Fox
>
> In article <39800D74...@tryllian.com>, Adriaan Koster
> <a3...@tryllian.com> writes
> <good stuff snipped>
> >* watch the seat of the rower before you and start sliding at the same
> >moment as him/her
> <snipped the rest too...>
>
> I would have thought that it was more important to be watching stroke's
> blade enter the water and try to enter at the same time than to be
> watching his slide. One cannot really be watching both at the same
> time.
> edgar (remove nospam from return address for e-mail reply)
Watching the strokes blade enter the water virtually guarantees a late
catch by the person watching. Reaction times of the human body are
simply to slow so the catch is in fact anticipated which of course can
contribute to the cause of this original thread when those trying to
anticipate the catch do so with a little to much enthusiasm.
Silver Fox
Gareth G Price
rhythm through the boat. The catch should be antcipated at the 3/4 slide
otherwise you will not have enough time at frontstops to square the blade
and get it in the water the same time as stroke. video anaylis might help
the crew understand about rushing the slide and the effect that it has on
the boat using the stern to demonstrate stopping the boat due to the rush.
--
GAZA
The one The only rowing's my everything
Silver Fox <f...@voyager.co.nz> wrote in message
news:398249...@voyager.co.nz...
dave henderson
Before I ever set foot in a boat, myself and other inductees
into the school BC went to a pre-preliminary meeting one
lunchtime to give us some early tips, one of which was that we
would have to learn to snap our wrists back for the feather,
something we could start practicing straight away. So you can
imagine the sight of a dozen spotty schoolboys emerging from the
classroom heavily preoccupied in making suggestive wrist
movements...
Dave H
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Walter Martindale
There are probably dozens of things to try. What seems to work for me is a
combination of things:
First, "release to catch" or "placement" exercise. If it's an 8+ and
you've got still water - it may be worth carting the 8+ to a lake somewhere
if you're on a river - start 2 at a time and watch carefully while they
take the blade out, recover (encourage slowly) and place the blade but not
push the stretcher. Ask if they feel a difference in time between the seat
stopping and the blade entering (I know, you can't 'feel' time, but you get
the picture). If they do, you may try to identify why - is the upper body
not set early enough to permit correctly timed placement? Is the slide so
fast that the arms/hands can't keep up?... Once they get the timing,
they'll probably lose it as soon as they start rowing - habits are hard to
break. So, start with carefully monitored 10 cm pushes in which the
athlete(s) try not to disrupt the timing they had on the non-pushing
strokes. Then longer pushes, then single strokes at full length.
Once this is done, and they've experienced proper slide control once or
twice, you can work it up through the whole crew, so that they're all doing
release to catch.
Then, something to try is "exaggerated rhythm" - try working down to 6
strokes per minute. Encourage the crew to feel for "waiting" anywhere - or
are they moving all the time, albeit slowly? When the ratings return to
normal, watch to see that the control and timing remain. (you may even need
to count out loud during the recovery - a "6" rating means counting
"Thousand and 1, thousand and 2, ..., Thousand and 10" or 11, or so, while
the blades are in the air. Incredibly slow knee-bending.
Another thing that works for some - instead of "slow your slide" try "pay
attention to how quickly your knees bend - slow that down" There aren't
nerves in the "slide" but there are kinesthetic feedback mechanisms in the
hips, knees, and muscles which tell the rower how fast the body bits are
interacting - it's getting them to tune in that's the tricky bit.
Works for me, hope it helps you.
Hamilton Richards Jr.
<ed...@nospam.coves.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <3980542e...@news-server.optonline.net>, Ken
> <cprst...@optonline.net> writes
> >Now I'm really confused. In the Sculler at Ease, Cunningham
> >recommends an exercise where you push on the handles to break out the
> >blades. And it works!
>
> Sounds really crude and likely to slow down the boat.
Perhaps it's the paraphrase that's crude. What Cunningham actually
recommends (on page 85) is to
... firm your wrists after the blades are turned a little
at the end of the stroke, and send the handle away with a
firm shove from the base of your fingers, straightening
your wrists at the same time. Your blades will turn themselves
onto the feather if they are held lightly. Notice that your
blades are to be rotated slightly *before* they are extracted.
Sure sounds a lot like your coach...
Many years ago my coach pointed out that the blades would leave the
> water of their own accord if you started to feather them at the end of
> the stroke. The flow of water past the boat then flips them cleanly
> out.
--Ham
Hamilton Richards Jr. Department of Computer Sciences
Senior Lecturer Mail Code C0500
512-471-9525 The University of Texas at Austin
SHC 434 Austin, Texas 78712-1188
Felipe
Cynthia Donnell <csdo...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8lqhnd$o6s$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
> >> hoik themselves forwards at 100 miles an hour.
> >Just out of curiousity, is "hoik" a Welsh term ... ?
> from www.google.com
>
> ... hoick Verb Slang To spit. When Don heard that Baldwin had actually
> made...
> home.echo-on.net/~buzzcorr/HOICK%20(SLANG)%20-%20LINGO.htm - 2k - Cached -
> Similar pages
> hoick
> ... hoick Verb British informal To lift or pull abruptly or with some
> effort...
> ...or domestic of his to go down and hoick out a pearl. 1911 Chambers's...
> home.echo-on.net/~buzzcorr/HOICK%20(INFORMAL)%20-%20LINGO.htm - 4k -
> Cached - Similar pages
> [ More results from home.echo-on.net ]
Felipe: [... sits in stunned silence, gobsmacked ...]
edgar cove
writes
>edgar cove wrote:
>>
>> In article <39800D74...@tryllian.com>, Adriaan Koster
>> <a3...@tryllian.com> writes
>> <good stuff snipped>
>> >* watch the seat of the rower before you and start sliding at the same
>> >moment as him/her
>> <snipped the rest too...>
>>
>> I would have thought that it was more important to be watching stroke's
>> blade enter the water and try to enter at the same time than to be
>> watching his slide. One cannot really be watching both at the same
>> time.
>> --
>> edgar (remove nospam from return address for e-mail reply)
>
>Watching the strokes blade enter the water virtually guarantees a late
>catch by the person watching. Reaction times of the human body are
>simply to slow so the catch is in fact anticipated which of course can
>contribute to the cause of this original thread when those trying to
>anticipate the catch do so with a little to much enthusiasm.
>
>Silver Fox
Well, I never meant to imply that you should see his blade entering the
water before you started to think about doing the same with your own...
liz
> Hi Liz (have we met somewhere before?)
I believe you threatened to sprinkle salt on me a while ago...
: o)
Lawrence, Ben [LON40:5049-M:EXCH]
"liz" <l...@twrc.org> wrote in message
news:8m1on9$cpu$1...@sshuraab-i-1.production.compuserve.com...