Sculler to Boat Weight Ratio
Carl Spackler
In article <3393C2...@ozemail.com.au>, "Peter says...
>
>Is there any information on conversion of sculler weight to weight of
>shell ? I would appreciate any assistance. Thanks.
1 lb. of sculler weighs the same as 1 lb. of boat
Carl
thebat
Jacqueline D. Stubbs wrote:
>
> Peter Burke (B.Arch) wrote:
> >
> > Is there any information on conversion of sculler weight to weight of
> > shell ? I would appreciate any assistance. Thanks.
>
> It really depends on the manufacture and the hull design. One company
> will typicaly make a light weight, mid-weight and a heavy weight boat
> but they may all be within a few pounds of each other.
>
> Jacque Stubbs
Which weighs more: a pound of lead or a pound of lead (or was that
feathers? i dunno?!)
And here I was thinking that people suddenly got upset at the fact that
lighweights have to row boats which weight the same as heavyweights.
Damnit, can't we start a thread about how unfair it all is!
Jacqueline D. Stubbs
Voodoo
Peter Burke (B.Arch) wrote:
>
> Is there any information on conversion of sculler weight to weight of
> shell ? I would appreciate any assistance. Thanks.
No! Because a shell can weigh any weight as long as it meets the
minimum FISA standard of somewhere around 32lbs (I'm probably wrong
about the weight, but it's something like that).
A boat is produced to be size specific, and to fit a certain range of
boats. The differences are normally a larger shell all together, or
perhaps just higher gunwales. I row a 95kg or 198lbs. size specific
shell, and weigh slightly over that at 208lbs., it doesn't seem to be
much of a problem. However, if I was to weigh in the 170lb. range and
rowed a shell designed for someone in the 210lbs.+ range, then I might
have some problems. Everything about the shell would be larger, and
would sit WAY to high out of the water for me to be comfortable, and
balanced. Because each boat builder designs a shell for certain
conditions (racing vs. recreational vs. open water) no weight to weight
translation is conversible. I probably wouldn't row a 32lb. racing
shell in the ocean (it would snap in half), nor would I want to row a
50lb.+ ocean shell in the Olympics (I'd probably be balanced/set like a
rock, and wouldn't be much faster than a rock in comparison).
I hope that this anwsers your question?
shug
>shell ? I would appreciate any assistance. Thanks.
It's a matter of personal preference whether you chose a long pointy
one or a short fat one; as long as it displaces your body weight it should
float! People advertising s/h boats may quote the boats 'weight',
eg 75-80kg Empacher fs, etc. obviously this does not refer to the boats
actual weight but the range of scullers weight that would suit it.
Never buy a boat while learning to scull, use a club boat if possible,
once you are sure its the boat rather than your technique that's slowing
you down try a few makes out before buying one!
shug
Ken Cooperstein
I have a slightly different question. I have often wondered if the
ideal length boat is anywhere near the standard sizes (i.e. 11" beam,
28' long). For example, assuming a custom, optimized profile, would a
300 lb. rower be fastest in say a 12" beam, 32' long shell? A 100 lb.
rower in a 9" beam, 22' long shell?
The alternate question is, Are people with weights different from the
design weights at a substantial disadvantage?
Ken Cooperstein
Hcrunon
shug (gcl...@clinmed.nospam.gla.ac.uk) wrote:
"as long as your boat is under the FISA max. weight it's up to you."
FISA sets _minimum_ weights for shells.
Howard Runyon
Chicago
Steven Gillespie
On 3 Jun 1997, shug wrote:
> In article <3393C2...@ozemail.com.au>, "Peter says...
> >
> >Is there any information on conversion of sculler weight to weight of
> >shell ? I would appreciate any assistance. Thanks.
>
> No, as long as your boat is under the FISA max. weight it's up to you.
> <et cetera>
> shug
>
>
Just wanted you to know that the boat has to be OVER the MINIMUM weight.
You can race a 75lb single if you want, but you can't race a 10lb one.
Steve Gillespie
john martin
Read Bourne. He works out some pretty complex formulas that wind up with
simple (approximate) solutions. Basically, weight added to the shell/rower
combination affects speed as the percentage that the added weight adds to
the total weight. I weigh 175 (or did before practice). My boat weighs 28.8
pounds. If I added 5 pounds to the boat (or to me that wasn't muscle), it
would cost me about a second in 1000 m.
That's all I know --- and it's probably wrong.
Peter Burke (B.Arch) <bur...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in article
<3393C2...@ozemail.com.au>...
LEONG
Steven Gillespie (sgil...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: Just wanted you to know that the boat has to be OVER the MINIMUM weight.
: You can race a 75lb single if you want, but you can't race a 10lb one.
: Steve Gillespie
you'll have to make the boat out of paper if it is to weigh 10lb.
do they actually weigh your boat beofre you race? if they don't, if
somebody turns up with a light boat, how are they gonna know?
--
LEONG
email : S.L...@durham.ac.uk
http://www.dur.ac.uk/~d3frkj/
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/9588
JMcDaid
LEONG <S.L...@durham.ac.uk> wrote in article
<5na0mn$5...@mercury.dur.ac.uk>...
> Steven Gillespie (sgil...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
>
>
> you'll have to make the boat out of paper if it is to weigh 10lb.
>
> do they actually weigh your boat beofre you race? if they don't, if
> somebody turns up with a light boat, how are they gonna know?
I read somewhere that in the nineteenth century they did make shells out of
paper that was varnished over. It seems to have started when some racer
needed an emergency repair to his shell and it was found that varnished
paper did the trick. The next step was paper shells, which were light and
quickly built, though not too durable.
Jerry Murphy
Anu Dudhia
And here's another question to throw on the pile
Assuming there is an ideal shape for an eight, you'd expect the one for
lightweights to be shorter and have the riggers closer together than
heavyweights, yet all rigger spacings are fixed (I think) at 8 feet
apart on each side so that boats all fit in the same boathouse. Give or
take the odd fashion statement on design of bow or stern, boat waterline
lengths are also pretty close for all 'weights' of eight.
If you were to custom-build a boat for lightweights wouldn't you want to
shorten all the dimensions by around 10% (assuming that the standard
boat shape is optimised for heavyweights who weigh around 30% more). Not
only would that make the rigger spacings nearer 7' than 8', it would
also shorten the whole boat by about 6'.
Alistair James Potts
The length of the 'stateroom' (that's what old boaties seem to call the area
you sit in) is surely entirely dependent on leg length. Just off the top of my
head, I wouldn't think lightweight men had appreciably shorter legs than
heavyweight men, maybe an inch or two. But you have to build to the extreme of
possibilities I suppose, and though some lightweight men are quite short,
there are equally some well over 6'.
So I don't think boat length would vary much with crew-weight within men's
boats. Mind you, so-called lightweight women seem to be to be consistently a
fair few inches shorter than those women who choose to enter open events. But
since the H2x shell has to weigh the same as the FPL2x (or whatever), there's
not much incentive in producing a much shorter shell. Since you'd surely
have to fill an 'optimum' FPL shell with weights anyway, you're probably
better off sticking with a tried and tested hull shape.
AJP
(N.B. I've never constructed a boat in my life)
Brian J. Elsts
LEONG wrote:
>
> Steven Gillespie (sgil...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
>
> : Just wanted you to know that the boat has to be OVER the MINIMUM weight.
> : You can race a 75lb single if you want, but you can't race a 10lb one.
>
> : Steve Gillespie
>
>
> do they actually weigh your boat beofre you race? if they don't, if
> somebody turns up with a light boat, how are they gonna know?
>
>
> LEONG
I'm sure it is possible to get a boat much less than 30lbs. It probably
wouldn't hold up for more than a year, but it is possible.
To anwser your question: Yes, they do weigh the boats before large
races, and in other large races, they usually just weigh the medal
winners boats. So, that's how they are going to know.
BJE
Jon
Anu Dudhia (dud...@atm.ox.ac.uk) wrote:
<stuff>
I spoke to a boat designer, and very experienced coach, about this. He
seemd to think lightweight boats should indeed be significantly (compared
to usual) different to heavyweight ones, but seeing as we were both a
little legless at the time, I have aofrgotten what he said exactly.
Sorry. :)
But, I think it was something like that. Apparently tapered sterns create
a swell under the cox's seat and it lifts the boat out of the water.
Jon
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
j...@durge.org
http://www.durge.org/~jon
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GSpiess
There are indeed shells that are "size specific" to the weight of the
crew. Some manufacturers will use the same hull and merely lower the deck
and cockpit level to compensate for the weight differences. Others
actually have hulls that have reduced/enlarged measurements for all
dimensions. Thus a lightweight will be shorter, narrower, and sit lower.
I know the Stampfli D90 designed by Klaus Filter (sp?) is proportionally
smaller even to the point of having a reduced span for use with shorter
sculls, and I think George Sharrow specializes in flyweight boats that are
also proportionally smaller than a "typical" lightweight. Vespoli used to
run some ads about proportional shells, and I have some Kaschper
literature that appears to have the same.
George
Douglas MacFarlane
In article <5nbcnv$h...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, aj...@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alistair
James Potts) wrote:
> The length of the 'stateroom' (that's what old boaties seem to call the area
> you sit in) is surely entirely dependent on leg length. Just off the top of my
> head, I wouldn't think lightweight men had appreciably shorter legs than
> heavyweight men, maybe an inch or two. But you have to build to the extreme of
> possibilities I suppose, and though some lightweight men are quite short,
> there are equally some well over 6'.
If you shorten the "stateroom" you will also bring the oars on the same
side closer together as well - this may not be a problem with a "normally"
rigged sweep oared boat but if you are in a crew sculling boat or a boat
with two adjacent seats rowing on the same side then the spacing may
become a problem.
Douglas.
...
Some stuff deleted here
...
Douglas MacFarlane
> The length of the 'stateroom' (that's what old boaties seem to call the area
> you sit in) is surely entirely dependent on leg length. Just off the top of my
> head, I wouldn't think lightweight men had appreciably shorter legs than
> heavyweight men, maybe an inch or two. But you have to build to the extreme of
> possibilities I suppose, and though some lightweight men are quite short,
> there are equally some well over 6'.
If you shorten the "stateroom" you will also bring the oars on the same
side closer together as well - this may not be a problem with a "normally"
rigged sweep oared boat but if you are in a crew sculling boat or a boat
with two adjacent seats rowing on the same side then the spacing may
become a problem.
...
Some stuff deleted here
...
>
> AJP
> (N.B. I've never constructed a boat in my life)
Douglas.
(N.B. I've never constructed a boat in my life either)
VoodooJaz
for crews that would compete in a shell for years, couldn't they design a
boat around the rowers?
Ken
My question is, Will a 240 lb. rower be faster in a heavyweight single
or a lightweight double (assuming proper trim)? Any big rowers ever
try this?
At 225 lbs. I row an Alden double (18') much faster than an Alden
single (16'). Even in a racing single, it feels that I hit a speed
wall well before I am at 100%. I wonder if the boat is just
overloaded and, as a consequence, sucking up energy without adding
speed.
Ken Cooperstein
James Moore
Ken (cprs...@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: My question is, Will a 240 lb. rower be faster in a heavyweight single
: Ken Cooperstein
I think you're on the right idea. Here are my thoughts, for what they're worth.
No matter how long the boat is the addition of you will displace the same
amount of water (Archimedes, I think). But the length of the boat determines
HOW that water is displaced. A longer boat would have a smaller cross
sectional area of displacement and thus less drag. So the same amount of force
would yield a faster speed ceritis parabus.
BUT all things are not equal. For instance, a smaller cross sectional area
likely means a higher center of gravity and therefore a less stable boat.
I'm not sure if there is an optimal weight/length ratio, it may be rower
dependent. I would guess that a lightweight double would be a bit on the lond
side though.
--
Jim