Empower Oarlock

[aadam....@gmail.com]

Any initial thoughts from folks on NK's newly announced Empower Oarlock?

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1100371087283&ca=69876a52-285a-47b2-b5a2-227fc39973bb

[carl]

On 13/08/2016 16:58, aadam....@gmail.com wrote:
> Any initial thoughts from folks on NK's newly announced Empower Oarlock?
>
> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1100371087283&ca=69876a52-285a-47b2-b5a2-227fc39973bb
>

Looks useful.

The values given for "slip" & "wash" seem arbitrarily defined.

And, while it measures work done, we still lack any way to measure the
proportion of that work which is actually used to move the boat.

Cheers -
Carl

--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing Low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: Harris Boatyard, Laleham Reach, Chertsey KT16 8RP, UK
Find: tinyurl.com/2tqujf
Email: ca...@carldouglasrowing.com Tel: +44(0)1932-570946 Fax: -563682
URLs: carldouglasrowing.com & now on Facebook @ CarlDouglasRacingShells

[madmar...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, 13 August 2016 16:58:44 UTC+1, aadam....@gmail.com wrote:
> Any initial thoughts from folks on NK's newly announced Empower Oarlock?
>
> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1100371087283&ca=69876a52-285a-47b2-b5a2-227fc39973bb

I'm still waiting for the OARinspired gear to be ready to ship...

[aadam....@gmail.com]

Interesting, Carl, I had noted the former - looks like they selected the 100N level. For your latter point, I guess you could look at the ratio between work and speed. Wouldn't tell you % of work that moves the boat vs not, but should give some sense of improved efficiency (or not) as you pile on the wattage.

[James HS]

me too - and annoyingly they do not respond to posts or requests for further info - so my feeling is that it is a dead parrot and the NK announcement will probably sink it and my KS funds :( ....... on the bright side, there is the NK announcement which will do a lot of what the OS kit was going to do, but in a package that means I already have a lot of the parts

[Valgozi]

> I'm still waiting for the OARinspired gear to be ready to ship...
> me too - and annoyingly they do not respond to posts or requests for further
> info - so my feeling is that it is a dead parrot and the NK announcement will
> probably sink it and my KS funds :(

With OarInspired linked to the Oz Rowing Team I was thinking something would be released once the Olympics was all done. It is quite amazing how quiet things have been. NK had been almost as quiet until everything was ready and an actual launch date confirmed. So the ramp up of information will surely come soon?

I was looking forward to there being 2 or more systems so that there was competition.
However with NK being so well established and that they have a global network of customers with the needed support network of distributors and retailers. It also appears now that they will be shipping relatively soon so won't be beaten to market. It doesn't look good for anyone else entering with a product that isn't significantly superior or that out competes them on price.

Price comparisons for setup on a single gates and display -
Peach Innovations - £2750 GBP (not sure this includes an in boat display)
NK Empowered Oarlocks - £1630 ($2100 USD) ($1298 USD for two gates, $798 for two displays as currently one doesn't seem to do two gates) £1300 ($1697 USD) if one display can do the job eventually.
OarInspired - £810 GBP ($1360 AUD ) Two Gates, Display, Hull sensor, doesn't seem to mention an impeller.

> ....... on the bright side, there is the > NK announcement which will do a
> lot of what the OS kit was going to do, but in a package that means I already > have a lot of the parts

I think EmPower linking with the current SpeedCoach 2.0 GPS is a positive for anyone with it already purchased more so with sweep. Possibly a negative with sculling, need to see how connecting sculling oarlocks to the one display figures out. I can't see having two displays when sculling is really a successful option. Fingers crossed there is nothing restricting this from a hardware point of view for the current SpeedCoach 2.0 GPS. If it is just software then all is good.

The link with NK Empower Oarlock to BioRow is quite a feather in NK's cap. I do like the video's NK have made running through each function and how it can aid coaching. Their marketing seems to be done, just the software and possibly a sculling display needs to be finished off.

It will be interesting to see what direction Peach Innovations go with their products when competition arrives.

[Kit Davies]

A couple of others I've come across:

1. "Digirow" - from SweetZpot at c £185:
http://www.sweetzpot.com/#!product-page/p16u2/7ff7045c-a13c-d79a-0e91-4b63a1717273

discussed here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/rec.sport.rowing/-UIPadzyyfE

2. "The Rowing App" - a new KickStarter for rowing instrumentation using
a smartphone only:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1605381989/the-rowing-app/description

with lowest pledge that actually includes the app being $79.

HTH
Kit

[James HS]

so once they are all out we need a shoot-out :)

NK will only connect to a training pack enabled GPS2 - and I have seen illustrations with two up on a scull.

I am thinking that you would largely use it as a training aid rather than all the time - certainly I would be interested in them as a coach to periodically coach angles to a crew, but not sure I would have then on all the time.

would be very interesting to compare my left and right hand - but for that I would want a synced set and recording facilities - which the NK does not seem to have at the moment.

There still does not seem to be one overall system :(

[marko....@gmail.com]

On Monday, 15 August 2016 13:48:59 UTC+1, Kit Davies wrote:

There is the smart oar device too (not gate based).

[head...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 9:58:44 AM UTC-6, aadam....@gmail.com wrote:
> Any initial thoughts from folks on NK's newly announced Empower Oarlock?
>
> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1100371087283&ca=69876a52-285a-47b2-b5a2-227fc39973bb

I'd like to weigh in a bit in the hopes of gaining some enlightenment and direction. I have a small company called smartOar that measures the force
on the oar in real-time for up to eight oars simultaneously.

I have a new product that measures the angle of the oar at the pin in real-time as well. Mine is somewhat different in that, like the oars, it can be easily moved from seat to seat or boat to boat. I can see how knowledge of the force and angle at any instant opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities. Unfortunately, I'm an electrical engineer, not a mechanical engineer, so my expertise in things mechanical is mostly imaginary. If I know the length of the outboard portion of the oar (what is the center of force of the blade?), I can convert the angle to distance and get power. A coach can see how the angle changes at the catch and release, in real-time. SmartOar also allows you to self-record and download the data from the oars at a later time (the oars communicate with each other to maintain the timing relationships while recording).

I could really use some input on how this information could be useful to rowers
and the form it should take. This business of slip and wash are easily measurable from angle and force but how useful are they given the arbitrary
cutoff points on the force curve? What kinds of graphs would you like to see?
One strength of smartOar is the ability to see the timing relationships of
multiple rowers in addition to the shape of the force curves. How can the
same relationship for angle be of benefit? Any comments will be humbly appreciated.

Best,

Bob Martin
smartOar

[thomas....@googlemail.com]

If the new sensor is able to sense angles around the pin, I think an easy and clear way to show that would be a simple bar chart with two colours, one for the angle where the blade is "effective" (as mentioned above, perhaps this could be where the wattage goes over a certain value) and then another where you may have reached but the blade is not yet "effective" - this could help show where people are missing at the catch/washing out the finish and also overlaying bar charts like this is easier for the coach to judge quickly on the go what is going on.

One suggestion for the smartoar, have you thought about adding ANT+ support to the sensors? My thinking is that for the rower it might not be ideal to provide a battery of live data for them to review, however I think it would be useful if they could see the live wattage that they are producing each stroke - that way if they are doing a UT2 workout they can follow a set wattage for the right workout or in pieces it gives an indication of performance that isnt affected by weather like GPS can be - ANT+ would be ideal as then all the rower would need would be any cycling computer/Garmin device that are already set to receive Wattage data over ANT+.

That way you each rower would be able to use your Garmin to track the workout/watch your Watts, the coach could use the tablet to review the crews stroke patterns and provide feedback, and then at the end of the outing everyone could download their data to review.

[andymck...@gmail.com]

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 10:51:18 PM UTC+1, head...@gmail.com wrote:

A peripheral involvement with crews that have used force sensors and similar aids suggest to me that a key issue is 'will the data be used?'. Stroke by stroke data logging is great, but will anyone actually look at the data? So you have two scenarios - high performance teams with full time coaching staff (+ people who love metrics) who will spend as much time analysing data as they do on the water - and everyone else who will have good intentions but will end up heading to the pub instead. I think you have to be rowing at a fairly high level to have the skill to interpret a coach telling you your force curve is wrong while not actually in the boat feeling the oar.

I think thought should be given to the simplest possible real time feedback of particular coaching drills. So let's say you are looking at catch angle, you don't want to tell the rower the angle is 56% and you want 58%, you want a simple 'Short - Correct - Long' display (or maybe colours or even sounds). (Apart from anything else without reading glasses I wouldn't see the detail on the display). And then the coach might move on to drilling finish angles, or maybe you could set up an exercise about timing catches, and the display would say 'Bow - late - on time -early'. A simple feedback system could mean it is practical for scullers and crews 'self-coaching' - you could imagine pre-selecting a menu of exercises before an outing, each with goals preset and a simple feedback criteria programmed.

Andy

[marko....@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 14:41:54 UTC+1, andymck...@gmail.com wrote:
> A peripheral involvement with crews that have used force sensors and similar aids suggest to me that a key issue is 'will the data be used?'. Stroke by stroke data logging is great, but will anyone actually look at the data? So you have two scenarios - high performance teams with full time coaching staff (+ people who love metrics) who will spend as much time analysing data as they do on the water - and everyone else who will have good intentions but will end up heading to the pub instead. I think you have to be rowing at a fairly high level to have the skill to interpret a coach telling you your force curve is wrong while not actually in the boat feeling the oar.

It is an interesting point. Imo how (and how much) it is used depends a lot on the analytics behind it ie. taking the recorded data and making it usable/actionable.

Personally speaking, rowinginmotion app (uses phone accelometer) is excellent at this. Live in the boat you see the acceleration curve of the boat (would be force with the oarlocks I guess) along with actually useful commuted metrics like stroke efficiency and catch efficiency. I keep an eye on those metrics in the boat and the acceleration curve which I have easily learned what to look for on.

The back end online analytics shows the entire outing in distance, rate and speed. You can highlight any part of this and the metrics, velocity and acceleration profiles are plotted averaged for you selection. You can make multiple selections and overlay them too so compare sets of strokes that were fast/efficient (good metrics) against poor ones.

As an aside, data analytics is an area that is growing fast and is much needed. Right now businesses and industries collect loads of data but cannot present and interrogate it to make meaningful conclusions and decisions.

Rowing needs a massive wakeup call with technology. Maybe some will spend huge amounts of money on this system and not use it but that will be due to laziness. Laziness not using powerful tools is a lack of commitment ti improving and getting faster which is a choice just as skipping training sessions is - cycling uses this stuff (and much more) just fine.

[Valgozi]

Correction to my earlier post.

EmPower Oarlock designed initially that there is a sculling function so using one oarlock the power is doubled. It assumes both sides are near to equal.

So the cost of this comes down quite a lot
NK Empowered Oarlocks - £815 ($1050 USD) 1 oarlock and 1 speedcoach.

NK will eventually add two Oarlock capacity and this appears to be a firmware update that will let one SpeedCoach take the data from both gates.

[thomas....@googlemail.com]

Oarinspired have popped up again on their facebook and twitter pages showing stacks of the sweep gates - apparently most of the first batch will be going to Row Aus for testing where as the rest will go to fulfilling kickstarter orders

Will be interesting when all of these products start filtering onto the market!

[Valgozi]

I have not seen the RowCom display up and working yet from OarInspired. Have I missed it? I saw stuff about being able to arrange what is shown on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErXey363Nak but have not seen any pics or videos of a load of the displays.

The gates going to Row Oz, OarInspired really need to get some good video's of them all working. I think this will really help their PR.

Still love the colour of the OarInspired gates. Really makes their product stand out. I think NK needed to do something a bit better than black.

[Valgozi]

OarInspired's new link - http://www.oarinspired.com/batch-1-sweep-oar-intelligates/

[Henry Law]

On 16/08/16 14:41, andymck...@gmail.com wrote:
> you want a simple 'Short - Correct - Long' display (or maybe colours or even sounds)

I think this is a vitally important point. Coaches, biomechanical
engineers, and other such people need (or at least want) lots of data,
stored or downloaded, which they can slice and dice and look at. The
rower, by contrast, simply wants to know that she's "doing it right", so
she can practice that, rather than the alternative which is to practice
getting it wrong over and over again.

These are two different use cases (as they say in my trade) and it's a
great mistake to confuse them.

--

Henry Law Manchester, England