Car-topping singles?
Beth Mazur
but having lived in the sweeps world, I honestly don't know
the answer to this.
Do people car-top singles? If so, can you car-top on your
garden-variety mid-size SUV (e.g., Nissan Pathfinder)? How
about a smaller one (e.g., Subaru Outback)?
I thought some friends of mine used to car-top their double
on what I recall was a minivan, but maybe I'm totally
mis-remembering.
Beth Mazur
bow...@mazur.com
Daniel Y. Cheung
single on. You'll want a good quality cartop rack like Yakima or Thule
to mount the shell carrier on. I've seen 2x's cartopped too.
Dan C.
--
Dan Cheung
KOM Enterprise Technologies - USA
dytc...@worldnet.att.net
sue thomas
sitting on Hudson carriers. I sometimes carry my single on a Honda Civic
with Hudson cartop carrier and Yakima roof racks. No problems.
.........
sue
Beth Mazur wrote in message ...
Ken
line to the bumpers. If your load bars are very close together (like
less than 3') you should consider something like the cradles from
Burnham Boat Slings to avoid stressing your hull. See:
http://www.rowworks.com/burnham_front.html
Ken
(to reply via email
remove "zz" from address)
Steven Maynard-Moody
insurer says "tie down": my boat builder says "don't tie down." Certainly
anchoring a single with 3 feet or less between attachments is not adequate
for anything close to highway speeds. You should use a good car top carrier
designed for rowing shells. And make sure the car rack is solid, not just
cosmetic like in some US cars. If using a carrier with adequate space
between the cradles (approximately 9 feet), I believe that the bow and
stern tie down places unnecessary stress on the hull. For example, when you
pass a truck on the highway the single will dance in the turbulence but stay
secure on a single rack. Holding it firm with bow and stern lines would
force the hull to flex.
Also, speed and strong winds fore and aft are no trouble when car topping.
I can do 80+ mph and not hear a whistle. Cross winds are another matter.
The single creates considerable cross wind profile. We had a rower have a
single blow off a rack coming across the plains from Colorado to our Kansas
City head race last year. I've had similar, but not as drastic, experiences
here in the windy Midwest (USA). Van Dusen makes, in my judgment, the best
shell/carrier combo: in addition to the straps, the shell attaches to the
rack using the rigger bolts: very solid, very elegant, but custom to Van
Dusen.
Steven M-M
"Ken" <cprst...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3b2d70d6...@news-server.optonline.net...
Trevor Chambers
have the front[1] of the boat tied to the car, but that's for keeping it
pointing straight rather than as the main tie of course.
[1] in this context I mean the end of the boat which is over the front of the
car - some people transport bow first , others stern first...
Trevor
Sudbury RC
sue thomas
mounted on the roof of our RV. We had incredible cross winds as we
travelled through the Columbia Gorge (Washington/Oregon border) near
Goldendale WA. My single did shift up to the edge of the 'V' cradle but
otherwise held secure. Because it had shifted, the tie down straps rubbed
the edge where the hull joins the deck a bit, but no serious damage. Yet
it was windy enough that I had visions of the boat snapping due to the
forces on it! So if anyone was crossing the Gorge at the same time, and was
stuck behind an RV travelling at only 30 mph ... I'm sorry. That was me,
being paranoid.
Someone suggested that I tie down the bow and stern, but that would not have
helped in this situation, as my single simply rotated up the sling. And I
agree with you Steven, tying down those ends could produce unwanted stress
on the hull when the boat flexes up and down. Someone had suggested tying
down just one end of the boat so the other could flex a bit.
But I found tying down neither end worked fine. We did about 1500 miles,
lots of cross winds (south thru central WA & OR, then the west coast of
Oregon north), then I-5 (US)/Hwy 99 (Can) home. No problem at 60-65 mph
(100-110 km/h) on the I-5 and Hwy. 99 either.
My only regret is not having a boat cover ... Hudson will be getting an
order soon from me!
..................
sue
Steven Maynard-Moody
car topping.
Sue, I had the same experience with cross winds and changed from a
Hudson-like carrier to a Burnham/RowWorks carrier that, in my judgment, has
stronger cradles.
Steven M-M
"Trevor Chambers" <cham...@omc.bt.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3B2E2A9A...@omc.bt.co.uk...
Carl Douglas
>
>Someone suggested that I tie down the bow and stern, but that would not have
>helped in this situation, as my single simply rotated up the sling. And I
>agree with you Steven, tying down those ends could produce unwanted stress
>on the hull when the boat flexes up and down. Someone had suggested tying
>down just one end of the boat so the other could flex a bit.
You don't tie-down the ends tight but, rather, you rope from your
bumper/fender around the boat & back down to the opposite side just
tight enough to prevent upward movement but not so tight as to put a
bend in the boat. Especially when the bars on the vehicle are flexible
or close together, this acts as a snubber to stop all upward motion, &
is enough to curb any tendency to build-up large pitching oscillations.
Here in the UK, where many singles & some doubles are regularly car-
topped, some insurers require an end tie-down of this kind. Done
sensibly it imposes no undue stress on the boat. It restricts sideways
slewing & also gives a backup against one of your ties breaking or
slipping, or your v-bar working loose - giving you the chance of slowing
to a halt in one piece. And the alternative of leaving the chance for
the boat to peel off the rack & perhaps spear another road user is not
really such a good idea.
So not such a bad idea.
Cheers -
Carl
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JZ, UK
Email: ca...@carldouglas.co.uk Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 Fax: -466550
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)
Philip Barton
http://freespace.virgin.net/philip.barton_uk/jag.gif
engelbrecht-wiggans richard
> anchoring a single with 3 feet or less between attachments is not adequate
> for anything close to highway speeds. You should use a good car top carrier
> designed for rowing shells. And make sure the car rack is solid, not just
> cosmetic like in some US cars. If using a carrier with adequate space
> between the cradles (approximately 9 feet), I believe that the bow and
> stern tie down places unnecessary stress on the hull. For example, when you
> pass a truck on the highway the single will dance in the turbulence but stay
> secure on a single rack. Holding it firm with bow and stern lines would
> force the hull to flex.
What you seem to be recommending, and I agree, is to tie the shell
at two appropriately chosen points to a carrier which is securely
fastened to the car but "floats" enough to absorb any excess stresses
on the unsupported sections of the shell. In this case, unless the
bow and stern lines are carefully engineered, they will increase the
stresses on the shell.
Since the carrier gets left behind when rowing, its weight doesn't
much matter and it is easy to design a carrier which is plenty
strong to resist any stresses that it will ever see. On a short roof
line car. I'd tie such an indestructable carrier to a good roof
rack, and run lines from the ends of the carrier to the four
corners of the car. When pushed hard enough, the carrier will move
a bit, but will do so without risk of breaking or coming off the car.
On a long roof line vehicle, it is easy to attach the carrier
more rigidly, but I'm not sure that this is as good for the shell.
In any case, using a badly secured carrier--or worse yet, supporting
the shell somewhere other than the appropriate points--and then yanking
down on the ends of the shell with bow and stern lines "just in case"
seems like a dumb idea.
Richard.
PS If insurance requires bow and stern lines, then maybe you can find
an appropriate material--perhaps smallish diameter braided nylon line
--which has just enough stretch so that it neither flaps in the wind
nor adds undue stresses on the hull, but do not count on these lines
to help keep the shell on the car.
Ewoud Dronkert
> A demonstration of carrying a 'single' :
> http://freespace.virgin.net/philip.barton_uk/jag.gif
Nice car.
Henning Lippke
over the car's length?
If I imagine an 8 m single on a 4 m medium-class car, that would result in a
2m hangover on each side. Is that allowed...and more important: Can you
drive with it through curves without hitting motorcyclists off the road (for
example) ?
Which boatbuilder builds sectioned singles with no impact on overall
boat-weight / stiffness?
-HL
engelbrecht-wiggans richard
> Isn't there a limitation in the lenght of the cargo, that may protrude(??)
> over the car's length?
Depends on where you drive. Here in Illinois (and most of the US),
the overhang can be quite long as long as any overhang longer than
3 or 4 feet (depending on the state) is flagged.
> If I imagine an 8 m single on a 4 m medium-class car, that would result in a
> 2m hangover on each side. Is that allowed...and more important: Can you
> drive with it through curves without hitting motorcyclists off the road (for
> example) ?
Do the geometry. Imagine a 8m long shell centered on a 2m wide, 4m
long car. Draw a circle and put the car inside this circle with
(the front and rear corners of) one side just touching the car. You
have a circle with two parallel chords, one 4m long and the other
8m long, 1m apart. Let R be the circle's radius. Let D be the
distance from the middle of the side of the car closest to the circle
to the circle itself. Then we have that 4^2 + ((R-D)-1)^2 = R^2 and
2^2 + (R-D)^2 = R^2. The right hand sides are the same, so the left
hand sides must also be. This gives 16 + ((R-D)^2 - 2(R-D) + 1) =
4 + (R-D)^2, which simplifies to (R-D) = 13/2. Plug this into
2^2 + (R-D)^2 = R^2 to get 4 + 169/4 = R^2, implying that R equals
the square root of 4 + 169/4, which works out to be about 6.8m.
So, unless you car has a turning radius of less than 6.8m, if the
car clears a stationary object--like a light pole--then so too
will the ends of your shell. Heaven only knows what will happen
in the case of a moving motorcycle though.
Richard.
>
> Which boatbuilder builds sectioned singles with no impact on overall
> boat-weight / stiffness?
>
> -HL
>
>
>
Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans, U of Illinois, Champaign, Illinois
email: epl...@uiuc.edu; (217) 333-1088
Ben Blaukopf
> So, unless you car has a turning radius of less than 6.8m, if the
> car clears a stationary object--like a light pole--then so too
> will the ends of your shell. Heaven only knows what will happen
> in the case of a moving motorcycle though.
Easy. Any motorcycle rider with an ounce of intelligence would stear clear
of you. So long as you drive reasonably sensibly (eg indicate), then you'll
have no trouble. You'd certainly have to try very hard to cause any trouble
to someone in the next lane.
Ben Blaukopf - moved from a CB500 to a nice Jannie :)
--
Ben Blaukopf <b...@arachsys.com> Tel: +44 20 79006611
Arachsys Internet Services Ltd http://www.arachsys.com/
Carl Douglas
>Isn't there a limitation in the lenght of the cargo, that may protrude(??)
>over the car's length?
>If I imagine an 8 m single on a 4 m medium-class car, that would result in a
>2m hangover on each side. Is that allowed...and more important: Can you
>drive with it through curves without hitting motorcyclists off the road (for
>example) ?
Different countries, different rules.
In UK we have a Racing Boats Exemption appendix to our Road Traffic Act,
for shells, kayaks, etc.. From memory (which seems to match adequately
what the police find when they look in their little books after stopping
me), the relevant rules are:
1. Car + driver only - maximum overhang, both ends, of 2m beyond
bumpers, properly flagged + red light at night at rear.
2. Car + driver + passenger (able to step out at awkward road junctions
to see way clear for driver) - increase maximum overhangs to 3m,
properly flagged + warning red/white striped rear triangle + red light
at night at rear.
So, for us, a 2x on a 4m car is just about possible, if foolish. But if
the cops think the load unsafe, the RTA exemption won't save you.
I'd say the possible hazards are less than for trailers. As boat
builders, our experience confirms that view - the only damage we see in
car-topped boats comes, most infrequently, from inadequate racks. The
load rarely affects the car's handling (except in fierce cross-winds,
when trailers are also at risk). There is not the huge extra length &
associated risks (& fuel consumption) of the trailer. You're more
manoeuvrable. In many thousands of miles of boat transporting on
vehicle roof, I've never met the slightest risk of contact with a
cyclist or motorcyclist. You *must* remember the boat is up there, but
you can always see it so you shouldn't forget it. And others will see
it if it's properly flagged.
>
>Which boatbuilder builds sectioned singles with no impact on overall
>boat-weight / stiffness?
We do :-) (well, maybe it adds 250 grams)
Trevor Chambers
In the UK 1 metre of overhang is fine with a warning streamer/flag off it, 2
metres is ok if you have a streamer plus a light, and over 3m is only ok if you
have a ploice escort through every county.
See http://users.ox.ac.uk/~quarrell/roadregs.html
(I spent a weekend converting this to HTML incensed after being made late for
Walton SBH one year when stopped by the plod who then didn't know themselves
what the law was and forced to wait at the side of the road actually on Walton
bridge whilst they radioed back to base for the answer, getting laughed at by
the UL trailer as it wafted past...)
The image of chief constables being applied to by every sculler/double
scull/pair in the land on the way to an event is amusing...
Trevor
Sudbury RC
Ewoud Dronkert
You do?! I've never ever seen a sectioned single. Where's the section?
Ewoud
Carl Douglas
The section joint is in the footwell. Very neat & trim. And quick to
make & to separate.
SJGiddings
Columbus (OH, USA) learned this the hard way a couple of years ago on the way
to our annual regatta in St. Louis, (June 30, 2001, check our web site,
www.slrc.net, for details, plug plug). They were attempting to van-top a coxed
four, and got pulled over by the Illinois State Police. They were made to
remove the boat from their vehicle and leave it at a shopping center while
looking for a way to get it etiter home or to us. We kindly rescued them with
our trailer. We also got stopped a few years ago going through Kentucky en
route to Cincinnatti with our trailer. We didn't have a special permit.
Steve Giddings
sue thomas
A single vehicle and its roof topped load can not exceed 12.5m in length.
Front projection can not exceed 1.0m beyond the front bumper
Rear projection can not exceed 5.0m and is measured from the centre of the
last axle.
As well, your load cannot cause you to exceed your gross vehicle weight.
I wonder if info from different areas would be worth posting on rsr FAQs or
something similar. It would be handy to have a single place to go to check
regulations for those of us that cartop to regattas. I travel to Washington
State and Oregon and would be curious to know the applicable rules there.
And who knows, I just might cartop to Ontario some day to visit Tony,
travelling through Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba.
.....................
sue
Tony Curran
travelling through Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba...
And it will be another 4 days after crossing the Manitoba/Ontario border
before getting to Ottawa.
Welcome anytime.
Actually, I don't know of local car-topping regulations, tho have never been
stopped or heard of anyone else being stopped. Have to check.
The only incident of any magnitude was three half brains from our club put
their boats on one vehicle and headed off to St. Catherines for the Canadian
Henley. Got about an hour and a half out of town before all three boats
decided to try and fly. Ripped off the roof rack form the car and carbon
fibre from three dead Hudsons lay strewn across the 401.
Tony
Ottawa RC
Katy Cameron
the time I was there, but perhaps that was because there was no water
worth mentioning for miles... I never saw anything on the roof of
anyone's cars either, they all seemed to have trucks.
KT
sue thomas
been progress!
I couldn't tell you where they row though.
...............
sue
sue thomas
And the Saskatoon RC!
And then there is the Prince Albert Drifters RC.
Can't forget the Yorkton RC either.
At least according to the list at
http://www.rowingcanada.org/rowing/clubs/index.html
Walter Martindale
It depends on where you are in SK. As Sue has commented there are rowing clubs in
all those locations, including a developing recreational one in Moose Jaw. In
Regina, they row on Wascana Lake, right in front of the legislature. There are
Regina people who walk around the lake every day and don't know there's a rowing
club, because the rowing is done early in the AM and after work in the PM.
In Saskatoon, they use the South Sask river, rowing out of a park just upstream
from downtown.
In Prince Albert, it's the North Sask to train, and there is a 2000 m rowing
course on Sturgeon Lake, which is on a first nations reserve. The course is
maintained by the tribal council in the area.
The other places for rowing in Sask. are a lot less active.
Walter Martindale
Sask. Provincial Coach, 1991-1997
Walter Martindale
Where were you in Sask... and... Why?
Walter
Walter Martindale
Walter
Katy Cameron
pathetic little stream thing. Boundary damn always looked good for
rowing, but you'd have to play dodgems with the speed boats/jet skis. I
was a high school exchange student for a year, but I didn't choose
Saskatchewan, its residents chose me - out of a catalogue as it happens
:o)
KT
engelbrecht-wiggans richard
> engelbrecht-wiggans richard <epl...@uiuc.edu> writes:
> > So, unless you car has a turning radius of less than 6.8m, if the
> > car clears a stationary object--like a light pole--then so too
> > will the ends of your shell. Heaven only knows what will happen
> > in the case of a moving motorcycle though.
>
> Easy. Any motorcycle rider with an ounce of intelligence would stear clear
> of you. So long as you drive reasonably sensibly (eg indicate), then you'll
> have no trouble. You'd certainly have to try very hard to cause any trouble
> to someone in the next lane.
Sorry. Let me expand my last sentence to "Although the question
was about an overhanging shell end clearing a motorcyclist, my
answer is for clearing a tall stationary object. On my car, the
lower surface of my shell is just over six feet above the road
surface and so a conflict with motorcyclists is extremely unlikely,
but almost anything is possible. If your shell is lower, then an
arbitrarily small overhang can cause a problem if, for example,
you suddenly cut in front of a motorcycle moving the same speed
as you are, but even an extremely long (appropriately flagged)
overhang is unlikely to cause the typical motorcyclist problems
if you give them even half a chance to stay out of your way. In
short, with a moving motorcyclist, the answer depends on a variety
of things not specified by the original poster."
Richard.