EGM's Top 200 Video Games of Their Time
rafiki
list?
200. The Quest for the Rings
199. Super Castevania IV
198. Utopia
197. NFL 2K1
196. Guitar Hero
195. The Chronicles of Riddick
194. Nam-1975
193. SSX
192. Shadow of the Colossus
191. Devil's Crush
190. Bushido Blade
189. Metal Gear
188. Chu-Chu Rocket!
187. Mario Party
186. 1080 Snowboarding
185. Dragon's Lair
184. Blaster Master
183. Gorf
182. Psychonauts
181. River City Ransom
180. Super Off Road
179. Magician Lord
178. Dance Dance Revolution
177. BurgerTime
176. Flashback
175. Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
174. Snatcher
173. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
172. Katamari Damacy
171. Beyond Good & Evil
170. Perfect Dark
169. Crazy Taxi
168. Sega Rally Championship
167. Medal of Honor
166. Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
165. Double Dribble
164. Bionic Commando
163. Military Madness
162. Burnout 3: Takedown
161: Devil May Cry
160. NiGHTS into Dreams
159. Ecco the Dolphin
158. Herzog Zwei
157. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
156. Legendary Axe
155. The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
154. Moon Patrol
153. Ys Book I & II
152. Cybernator
151. Front Line
150. Kirby's Adventure
149. Ghosts 'N Goblins
148. PaRappa the Rapper
147. Spider-Man
146. Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell
145. Road Rash
144. International Superstar Soccer
143. Kaboom!
142. Tekken 3
141. Paper Mario
140. Panzer Dragoon
139. R.B.I. Baseball
138. Wario Ware, Inc.: Mega Microgame$
137. Dig Dug
136. Phantasy Star IV
135. Ice Hockey
134. Yar's Revenge
133. Final Fantasy X
132. Virtua Tennis
131. Sinistar
130. Twisted Metal
129. Revenge of Shinobi
128. Samurai Showdown II
127. Zaxxon
126. Animal Crossing
125. Metal Gear Solid
124. Pole Position
123. Battlezone
122. Virtua Fighter 4
121. Ico
120. OutRun
119. Castelvania III: Dracula's Curse
118. Pro Wrestling
117. Indy 500
116. Shenmue
115. Star Fox
114. Card Fighters' Clash
113. Lunar: The Silver Star
112. God of War
111. Dragon Force
110. Street Fighter Alpha 2
109. Gradius
108. Super Mario Bros. 2
107. Ms. Pac-Man
106. Donkey Kong
105. Karate Champ
104. Wipeout
103. Super Mario RPG
102. Landstalker
101. Ninja Gaiden
100. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
99. Final Fight
98. Strider
97. Phantasy Star II
96. Marble Madness
95. NFL Blitz
94. Centipede
93. Track & Field
92. Super Smash Bros. Melee
91. After Burner
90. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons
89. Golden Axe
88. Super Mario World
87. Missile Command
86. Ridge Racer
85. Advance Wars
84. Gunstar Heroes
83. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
82. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty
81. Ikari Warriors
80. Panzer Dragoon Saga
79. Contra
78. Daytona USA
77. Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow
76. Halo 2
75. SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs
74. Chrono Trigger
73. Gauntlet
72. Spy Hunter
71. Tempest
70. Mortal Kombat II
69. F-Zero
68. NFL Football
67. Resident Evil 2
66. R.C. Pro-Am
65. Resident Evil
64. Excitebike
63. Breakout
62. Frogger
61. Pokemon Red/Blue
60. Final Fantasy Tactics
59. Super Bomberman
58. Baseball Stars
57. Virtua Racing
56. Sonic the Hedgehog
55. NBA Jam
54. Defender
53. Mega Man II
52. Metroid Prime
51. Castlevania
50. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
49. NHLPA Hockey '93
48. Warlords
47. Joust
46. Resident Evil 4
45. John Madden Football
44. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!
43. Tron
42. R-Type
41. Double Dragon
40. Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
39. Combat
38. Asteroids
37. Virtua Fighter 2
36. Final Fantasy III
35. Tomb Raider
34. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater
33. Tecmo Bowl
32. Robotron: 2084
31. Star Wars
30. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
29. Final Fantasy II
28. Galaga
27. Final Fantasy VII
26. Phantasy Star
25. Gran Turismo
24. Tetris Attack
23. Super Metroid
22. Soul Calibur
21. Phantasy Star Online
20. Virtua Fighter
19. Super Mario Kart
18. Pitfall!
17. Halo: Combat Evolved
16. GoldenEye 007
15. Donkey Kong
14. Super Mario Bros. 3
13. Adventure
12. Metal Gear Solid
11. Metroid
10. Pong
9. Grand Theft Auto III
8. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
7. Space Invaders
6. Super Mario 64
5. The Legend of Zelda
4. Tetris
3. Street Fighter II
2. Pac-Man
1. Super Mario Bros.
--rafiki
"The Tactician" Luke Michaels
Ahmed Johnson's Beer Belly v2.0
Genesis.
Mr Black
"rafiki" <fi...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:1137747092....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
where is 10 yard fight?
MrB
MelMa...@gmail.com
> >From the new edition of Electronic Gaming Monthly, thoughts on the
> list?
A friend of mine sent me a list from a magazine that rates games. In
fact they produce a top 200 video games of their time list
(www.electronicgamingmonthly.com). He sent this to me because we have,
on numerous occasions, talked and debated over what makes up a great
game. I've said many times that I don't feel you can accurately rate
games and I think lists like this prove my point. With gaming being
such a subjective art it becomes largely a matter of taste. Even
considering a list, such as this, to be accurate not to mention feeling
yourself qualified to make such a list, without actually coding with
the designers of the games on it, is ludicrous and to be honest I find
it quite offensive.
I don't think anyone outside of the business can have a complete grasp
of what making a great game is all about and the complexities involved
therein. Granted avid fans, that pay attention, can tell what is fun
and what isn't, but to think you understand the industry enough to
determine whether Final Fantasy X is a better game than Gorf or visa
versa is insane. I've been in the industry 11 years and am considered a
damn fine coder yet I can't answer that question. I realize they are
both very fun games but being that I haven't coded either of them I
don't know for sure what all they each bring to the table.
Let me first point out a few thing that I feel make up a great game
that more often than not fans over look. First and foremost cut-scenes,
if a game is boring the hell out of you in order to make stuff look
good, I don't consider that a good game. It also has to have the
ability to simulate your injuries and others'. It has to be able to
incorporate a diversity of settings and characters and still play good.
It has to have the ability to make gamers look good despite their
shortcomings. You have to be able to put together a great story,
execute it, and lead others through it. You also have to, and this one
is a dieing art, be able to entertain the people. Make them buy what
you are selling, not just throw a bunch of cut scenes out there so they
can go "OH!" When you do that you are letting the fans make the game,
and they are working you. (I may get into this aspect more next week)
Okay now on to the list. I'm basically going to pick wholes in it to
show how these lists are never accurate or fair to those of us whose
games are on it. I don't think the creators of the list should take
offence. My doing this commentary will likely generate more traffic for
their little list than they ever imagined. Like they say, "Any press is
good press!"
1. Super Mario Bros: Now I haven't seen any of Miyamoto's stuff in a
while, and I'm told it has been extremely good but let's be honest
here. His stuff looks good because its ¾'s legit. He beats the hell
out of code. Does anyone honestly think he could code non Nintendo
style games? Could he create a character who has a neck injury and
still have a good game? Could he pull off a decent game with a very
limited North American style coder? Miyamoto is very good at his
certain style of game with the programmers he's been working with for
the last 5-10 years. Is he truly well rounded and diverse enough to be
considered the best this industry has? I doubt it.
3. Street Fighter II: I won't comment. My opinion is likely bias. I
just thought you would want to know where it ranked.
20. Virtua Fighter: Nothing against Yu Suzuki, he's actually a friend
of mine and I think he's quite talented, but he does not have the
experience level or the ability to dictate and carry a game to warrant
this ranking. Putting his games way ahead of games like Super
Castlevania IV and Gorf just shows that our list makers are marks for
fighting game characters who do a ton of moves. I don't think Yu would
put his games ahead of a lot of the ones he's ahead of on this list.
26. Phantasy Star: Everybody loves this game, and granted it's fun to
watch, but believe me it is not a great game. I've played with the game
and I would call it a poor to very poor game. It has good cut scenes
and is one of the best aerial flyers there is but when the cut scenes
are over this game can't work a lick! Working 6-player arcade matches
there isn't much outside of the cut scenes and the button mashing so
you don't notice it, but believe me if it's not in there with a gamer
to carry the gaming this game is lost!
45. John Madden Football: Come on, here is a game with versatility who
has head lined and stole the show on sales charts and it's ranked below
several Indy games. Give me a break!
90. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons: I know this game, and I've seen it
played. Placing it 58 spots ahead of PaRappa the Rapper should be a
crime punishable by death!
148. PaRappa the Rapper: See # 90.
500. Deadly Towers: I will be the first person to say Deadly Towers
isn't the most diverse well-rounded game out there, but to use any
criteria to get Deadly Towers this far down a list would also eliminate
most of the games in the top 100.
Well those are a few of the more interesting rankings. Where every game
actually belongs, I have no idea! I just like pointing out the fact
that "A great level does not a great game make!"
Till next week,
Mel
Setzer
but damn it's nice to see a list like this that actually remembers there
were video games before the Playstation.
--
Setzer
Scott H
Aww, come on, this thing got people to the arcades again. I enjoyed
watching people make fools of themselves on it. Should be 78, not 178.
> 177. BurgerTime
Watch out for the egg!
> 164. Bionic Commando
This was the shiite.
> 162. Burnout 3: Takedown
Woo Fallout Boy's Sugar We're Going Down was on this, so I heard that
song about a year before the radio started playing it. Awesome awesome
game. Probably second best racing game I've ever played only to Enduro
from the 2600.
> 158. Herzog Zwei
Snuh?
> 148. PaRappa the Rapper
Gay.
> 135. Ice Hockey
Is this the 2600 thing? If so, IAWTR. It was good.
> 133. Final Fantasy X
Meh, I guess I can see it being this low, personally I'd have it higher
though.
> 108. Super Mario Bros. 2
WTF? Why is this here?
> 99. Final Fight
Awesome arcade masher. Where is TMNT: Arcade though? I must have
spent half my money I ever earned between 1990-1993 on that game.
Completed it at least 10 times in the arcade.
> 94. Centipede
Cocktail tables = l33t
> 89. Golden Axe
Awesome arcade masher.
> 51. Castlevania
I never played this, but I completed Castlevania 2 for NES, and it was
great.
> 49. NHLPA Hockey '93
Wasn't it '96 before you could injure someone? That's the one that
deserves this spot.
> 48. Warlords
Warlords owns, I'm surprised it got this high, but I agree with it. I
had the paddles and they were awesome.
> 45. John Madden Football
If this is the only Madden they're putting in, too low. Should be 25.
> 44. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!
Too low, should be 20 or so.
> 33. Tecmo Bowl
Tecmo Super Bowl >>>>> Tecmo Bowl, I assume thats what they actually
meant. Should be MUCH higher, top 15 at least. My Personal #1 of all
time.
> 27. Final Fantasy VII
Ack, too low. Top 10. My Personal #2 of all time.
> 19. Super Mario Kart
While it was good, I'm surprised its this high.
> 14. Super Mario Bros. 3
Way too low, should be Top 5. I once left my NES on for two weeks
straight in the days before memory cards and the fact this game didn't
have codes, just so I could go through every single level (even the
optional ones) and completed the whole damn thing (without cheats
even!) and ended up with like 70 lives or something. Bowser = Jobber.
Princess = teasing bitch (she just leaves and says bye? Mario should
have gotten some action for all the shit he went through).
> 9. Grand Theft Auto III
Good place for this.
> 3. Street Fighter II
I guess, it was revolutionary in bringing the "win 2 out of 3" fight
games.
> 1. Super Mario Bros.
Eh, I guess.
Lance Storm
> A friend of mine sent me a list from a magazine that rates games.
> In fact they produce a top 200 video games of their time list
> (www.electronicgamingmonthly.com). He sent this to me because we
> have, on numerous occasions, talked and debated over what makes up
> a great game. I've said many times that I don't feel you can
> accurately rate games and I think lists like this prove my point.
> With gaming being such a subjective art it becomes largely a
> matter of taste. Even considering a list, such as this, to be
> accurate not to mention feeling yourself qualified to make such a
> list, without actually coding with the designers of the games on
> it, is ludicrous and to be honest I find it quite offensive.
Gimmick infringement!
--
Lance Storm lstorm@calgary...alberta.ca
No, I really AM Lance Storm this time. I hate lists!
![Froggy in the [mWo]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVJ2COQqLe2j8GWWfA-LD0_lrAl5CfWR7hzIE7YQKtjczl_DYkvrg=s40-c)
Froggy in the [mWo]
Scott H wrote:
> > 135. Ice Hockey
> Is this the 2600 thing? If so, IAWTR. It was good.
NES, and yes, it was a fantastic game. First console sports game to
really have different characteristics for different players.
-Froggy
Smart Ape with Dr. Acula
news:1137769478....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
My team always consisted of the fat players.
--
--- "Damn dirty fleas..."
--- Proud loser of TWO 2004 RSPW Poster Awards and several in 2005.
--- 3rd Highest Vote-Getter in KORSPW 2005
--- Ranked 4th on Lvubun's Top 127 RSPW Posters of 2005
Froggy in the [mWo]
rafiki wrote:
> 24. Tetris Attack
The ranking of this game here makes me a happy frog.
I used to bring a copy of this game to parties and watch people get
sucked into it. People who had never played video games in their lives
wound up becoming obsessed with the versus mode in this game.
-Froggy
Froggy in the [mWo]
Smart Ape with Dr. Acula wrote:
> "Froggy in the [mWo]" <toor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1137769478....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Scott H wrote:
> >
> >> > 135. Ice Hockey
> >> Is this the 2600 thing? If so, IAWTR. It was good.
> >
> > NES, and yes, it was a fantastic game. First console sports game to
> > really have different characteristics for different players.
>
> My team always consisted of the fat players.
1 fat, 1 skinny, 2 normal dudes here.
-Froggy
Smart Ape with Dr. Acula
Where is Frogger on the list?
Paco Supreme
rafiki wrote:
> >From the new edition of Electronic Gaming Monthly, thoughts on the
> list?
>
> 15. Donkey Kong
Huh?
Ben Robert Smith
Eleven?
Regards,
Ben Smith
~昢昏觟坍
<bensrob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Where are the foot games?
>
>
>Regards,
>
>Ben Smith
>
Night Spirit
> "Froggy in the [mWo]" <toor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1137769661.6...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> rafiki wrote:
>>
>>> 24. Tetris Attack
>>
>> The ranking of this game here makes me a happy frog.
>>
>> I used to bring a copy of this game to parties and watch people get
>> sucked into it. People who had never played video games in their
>> lives wound up becoming obsessed with the versus mode in this game.
>
> Where is Frogger on the list?
And Bop and Rumble the hard core Granny kicked butt. No Toe Jam and Earl, Bolderdash, Road Advanger and Fatal Rewind.
--
Blessed Be,
Nightspirit
The world wide web at my finger tips and I can't find anything
interesting.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RivertonCommonRecipeBulletinBoard/
lugnut
>26. Phantasy Star: Everybody loves this game, and granted it's fun to
>watch, but believe me it is not a great game. I've played with the game
>and I would call it a poor to very poor game. It has good cut scenes
>and is one of the best aerial flyers there is but when the cut scenes
>are over this game can't work a lick! Working 6-player arcade matches
>there isn't much outside of the cut scenes and the button mashing so
>you don't notice it, but believe me if it's not in there with a gamer
>to carry the gaming this game is lost!
Since when is Phantasy Star an aerial flyer with a 6-player arcade
version available?
-lugnut
Steve Muccione
That game was way ahead of it's time.
Star Commander Class 1
"rafiki" <fi...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:1137747092....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
GregoryD
"Froggy in the [mWo]" <toor...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1137769661.6...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
Tetris Attack has the best versus mode of any game ever. We used to get
into insane games complete with 15+ line blocks being dropped. No moves to
memorize, no reflexes really necessary. Just mind against mind. I was the
best Street Fighter player at my university, and Tetris Attack was still the
better game.
GregoryD
Android66
down and make a list of 200 videogames from the past 25 years that were
significant, I would have included many of EGM's choices myself.
I did have one gripe--Spiderman for the Atari 2600 is on the list, but
Superman for the Atari 2600 is not.
As far as I know, Superman was the first game to use a licensed
movie/comic/television character. It was the first games to use
multiple screens as part of a game's environment rather than stages in
a space shooter (it beat Adventure to market, even though Adventure was
programmed first and the code was used to create Superman). It was one
of the first games to use characters who were more than generic sports
stick figures or dots or cars or ships--the game had Clark Kent, Lois
Lane, Superman, Lex Luthor, and his henchmen. Granted, they weren't
very detailed, but this was in 1979 and no other game had done anything
like it. Finally, it was one of the first Atari 2600 games to use more
memory (hence the "Special Edition" label) than the regular games. It
might have even been one of the very first games to use a timer rather
than a score.
For all those reasons, I'd certainly include Superman on the list
instead of Spiderman. You could argue that, even if Superman was a
technical achievement, it doesn't belong on the list because it wasn't
very popular...but how popular was the Spiderman game?
Stoneco864
Brian E. Harris
Phantasy Star is a FRPG-style game for the Sega Master System.
Sequels were spawned on the Genesis, and then Phantasy Star Online
came out.
Are we thinking perhaps Blazing Star, Pulstar, something like that?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:29:22 GMT, lug...@NOSPAMhotmail.com (lugnut)
wrote:
Double T the Legally Blind Referee
@domitilla.aioe.org:
> Where are the FOOTball games, particularly Pro Evolution Soccer/Winning
> Eleven?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ben Smith
>
>
>
look smithers it's footmasta B
--
----------------------------------==
Double T the legally blind referee
----------------------------------==
2005 RSPW RUMBLE winner
#10 on Lvubun's 127 list
mWO 4 a long time baby
read my comix at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/138comix/
Double T the Legally Blind Referee
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
> Why they be hating on Mortal Kombat?
>
>
cause it was horrid.
death69
Is great to see most game that should be on this list on the list
not so much in right rankings but happy to see them there
I see from other post we all have many ideas what games should be
ranked but at least most are mentioned
A few should have be left out lol but that is my opinion
David Dibble
the systems, and i know plenty of people that would play that and hardly
touch any other game on the market. Another thing that i'm sure that would
effect the list is the amount of games produced for a home system.
(example: if a company produced 5000, of game "A" and 10,000 of game "B"
game B would have much higher sales, even if game "A' was a really good
game.) also not to mention how much a game was advertised.. That's just my
opinion though :)
Hans O
other than ones they specify as arcade. We then arrive at the top 55
arcade games of all time. Interest list. Ms Pac? Centipede?
1 Pac-man
2 Street Fighter 2
3 Space Invaders
4 Pong
5 Donkey Kong
6 Virtua Fighter
7 Galaga
8 Star Wars
9 Robotron: 2084
10 Virtua Fighter 2
11 Astroids
12 Double Dragon
13 R-type
14 Tron
15 Joust
16 Warlords
17 Defender
18 Virtua Racing
19 Frogger
20 Breakout
21 Mortal Kombat 2
22 Tempest
23 Spy Hunter
24 Gauntlet
25 Daytona Usa
26 contra
27 Ikari Wariors
28 Missile Command
29 Golden Axe
30 After Burner
31 Track & Field
32 Centipede
33 NFL Blitz
34 Marble Madness
35 Strider
36 Final Fight
37 Karate Champ
38 Gradius
39 Street Fighter Alpha 2
40 OutRun
41 Battle Zone
42 Pole Position
43 Zaxxon
44 Sinsister
45 Dug Dug
46 Ghosts' N Goblins
47 Front Line
48 Moon Patrol
49 Sega Rally ChampionShip
50 Crazy Taxi
51 BurgerTime
52 Dance Dance Revolution
53 Super Off Road
54 Gorf
55 Dragon's Lair
Chris Lansdell <RSPW Midcarder 4 Lyfe>
suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH!
>>From the new edition of Electronic Gaming Monthly, thoughts on the
> list?
>
> 193. SSX
Awesome. No Cool Boarders though? The original snowboarding game.
> 190. Bushido Blade
I am a huge mark for this game. One of my friends and I actually had a 5
minute fight in this, with the win coming when I over-extended and he
smacked my head in. 1-hit wins rule.
> 176. Flashback
I HATED this game.
> 175. Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee
Revolutionary.
> 173. The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
I still have nightmares about missing half a heart...
> 172. Katamari Damacy
Is this as good as everyone seems to think?
> 170. Perfect Dark
IAWputting this before Goldeneye. To me this just took the 007 enginge and
added too much, making it overkill.
> 165. Double Dribble
Ultimate Basketball was better and didn't have annoying repeptitive music,
but did have cut scenes (NES!) for 3s and dunks.
> 161: Devil May Cry
Another one I keep picking up and putting down. Should I get 1,2 or 3?
> 160. NiGHTS into Dreams
Awesome looking, like all Sega platformers.
> 148. PaRappa the Rapper
I was working at EB Games when this came out, so I had to try it. Weirdly
entertaining.
> 144. International Superstar Soccer
ISS 64 is the best soccer game EVAR.
> 142. Tekken 3
About right.
> 140. Panzer Dragoon
I only played Orta, and it's amazing to look at.
> 137. Dig Dug
Classic.
> 132. Virtua Tennis
Everett and Lendl Tennis for NES!!!
> 128. Samurai Showdown II
Awesome
> 125. Metal Gear Solid
The only game I've ever playe that had my dorm moates at college coming
over to watch me play it. Engrossing, challenging, well drawn. Should be
higher.
> 119. Castelvania III: Dracula's Curse
Oh hell yeah.
> 118. Pro Wrestling
Tecmo World Wrestling!!!!!!
> 115. Star Fox
For the N64? If so, IAWTR.
> 110. Street Fighter Alpha 2
No. Cack.
> 109. Gradius
OMG I thoguht I was the only one who played this! There was a way to warp
from the level 1 boss to level 6, and I never figured out how I did it, I
just did.
> 108. Super Mario Bros. 2
NO.
> 105. Karate Champ
Hehehehehehe.
> 104. Wipeout
Amazingly fast. Rollcage was good too.
> 93. Track & Field
YES. The first game I bought a turbo controller for.
> 89. Golden Axe
This was all sorts of fun, but Knights of the Round and TMNT Arcade were
times better.
> 79. Contra
Loved that spiral gun!
> 73. Gauntlet
Blue Elf shot the food! MUTHAFUCKER!
> 70. Mortal Kombat II
Really? I dunno...3 was better.
> 59. Super Bomberman
First classic party game.
> 55. NBA Jam
He's on fire! All-time classic.
> 44. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!
Never completed this. Tyson always got me.
> 41. Double Dragon
3 was the best of the series. The back-to-back hurricane kick ruled all.
> 27. Final Fantasy VII
SEPHIROTH!
> 25. Gran Turismo
It has Feeder on the soundtrack, therefore it owns.
> 22. Soul Calibur
The original and best. Kickass theme too.
> 19. Super Mario Kart
Preferred the N64 version
> 16. GoldenEye 007
ALL HAIL THE BEST FPS EVER
> 14. Super Mario Bros. 3
Travesty. Top 10 easily.
> 12. Metal Gear Solid
Buh? So good it's in twice?
> 10. Pong
RESPECT.
> 4. Tetris
Amen.
> 3. Street Fighter II
End Of List.
> 2. Pac-Man
> 1. Super Mario Bros.
>
I suppose from the genre-defining, instant-recognition point of view.
Apart from the above, missing frmo this list are Civilisation 2, Diablo 2,
Panzer General, WWF Attitude, WWF No Mercy...
Poot Rootbeer
>> 178. Dance Dance Revolution
> Aww, come on, this thing got people to the arcades again.
Agreed. Go into any arcade today (if you can find one) and there will
be:
2 light-gun shooter games
5 fighting games
4 seats of sit-down head-to-head racing
1 Neo-Geo system featuring Bust-A-Move
1 broken pinball table
and
12 variations on the DDR concept
>> 158. Herzog Zwei
> Snuh?
Obscure shooter for Genesis/Megadrive. I forget why it's noteworthy.
>> 51. Castlevania
> I never played this, but I completed Castlevania 2 for NES, and it
> was great.
WTF? CVI is a classic! Go leech the ROM from somewhere any play it
already.
>> 19. Super Mario Kart
> While it was good, I'm surprised its this high.
The original Super Mario Kart stinks. Mario Kart 64 is the true
classic.
>> 3. Street Fighter II
> I guess, it was revolutionary in bringing the "win 2 out of 3"
> fight games.
Hey, there's still 5 games just like it in every arcade. That means
there's something seminal about it.
-Poot
Mattu
9. Grand Theft Auto III
8. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
7. Space Invaders
6. Super Mario 64
5. The Legend of Zelda
4. Tetris
3. Street Fighter II
1. Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario 64 should be higher but I'd be damned if I could figure out
which game it bumps.
The whole idea about top whatever lists is under what criteria do the
judges use to determine the list. Several on the list are variations
on the same theme along with the game that defied the other's genre.
ie Super Mario 64, Legend of Zelda and GTA III. Without the first the
other two wouldn't have happened the same way. Without Street Fighter
II would we have had MK 1-100? If I had to make a list I would not put
sequels in except it they redefined the genre (again Super Mario Bros
to Mario 64)
(Sorry if I have Mario 64 on the brain. I'm playing it on the DS and
I'm reminded how superb a game it is made better by the additional mini
games, 20+ more stars to collect and 4 different characters to play as.
The only minus is no joystick.)
And where in the heck is Doom? Or did they exclude PC games?
Rockboy
>>From the new edition of Electronic Gaming Monthly, thoughts on the
> list?
I take it this is for console games only? Because most of them are shit.
Also Super Metroid should be #1 and Chrono Trigger #2.
--
Rockboy
Great words won't cover ugly actions
Good frames won't save bad paintings
The Mak
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>>From the new edition of Electronic Gaming Monthly, thoughts on the
> list?
Flashback is taking up Guitar Hero's spot on the list. It is that good, and
I fucking LOVED Flashback like nothing else.
Christ, Guitar Hero fucking rocks.
Li'l Slugger
"Android66" <mandr...@wifibullseye.com> wrote in message
news:1137781448.8...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Maybe Superman wasn't on the list because the game stunk.
Bill Beaux
> rafiki wrote:
>
>>> From the new edition of Electronic Gaming Monthly, thoughts on the
>>
>> list?
>
>
>
> I take it this is for console games only?
Since every popular arcade and computer game from the 80s was ported to
a console, yes.
> Because most of them are shit.
It's the top games "of their time," not by 2006 standards.
> Also Super Metroid should be #1 and Chrono Trigger #2.
Metal Slug was better than all the Metroid games combined but didn't
even make the list.
Chrono Trigger blows, just like every other Japanese-style,
console-based RPG.
: )
Where is Kid Icarus?
Poot Rootbeer
> Metal Slug was better than all the Metroid games combined
That's wrong.
> but didn't even make the list.
That's right.
-Poot
FunkyM, the rated PG-13 poster
Bill Beaux writed:
Yet it still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Final Fantasy X, which DID make
the list...
peep peep!
FunkyM, the rated PG-13 poster
rafiki writed:
> >From the new edition of Electronic Gaming Monthly, thoughts on the
> list?
> 195. The Chronicles of Riddick - FunkyM never played this but he sure hopes it's better than the movie!
> 187. Mario Party - Bwahahahaha! BTW, why does Nintendo pimp Mario out for shitty games like this but only makes one real Mario game per console?
> 133. Final Fantasy X - More interactive movie than game... guess that makes it kewl though...
> 108. Super Mario Bros. 2 - FunkyM liked this game, he doesn't care what anybody says!
> 106. Donkey Kong - Why so low for the Kong? He made Mario a main eventer!
> 92. Super Smash Bros. Melee - This game is almost worth buying a Gamecube for alone!
> 88. Super Mario World - NO WAY this should be below Super Mario World 2, in their time or any other
> 83. Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
> 74. Chrono Trigger - Too low, this game still smokes modern RPGs in every dept except graphics (which were damn good for SNES)
> 64. Excitebike - haha, this game ruled
> 62. Frogger - reminds FunkyM of that Sienfeld episode
> 61. Pokemon Red/Blue - this was insanely over for a year or two and extended the shelf life of the crappy original Gameboy, should probably be higher
> 60. Final Fantasy Tactics - great game, sadly never got over as much as the main titles...
> 53. Mega Man II - way too low... saved the franchise, best Mega Man of the entire series, best soundtrack of any 8-bit game (anyone who says hi can speak to Kiss My Ass Man)
> 51. Castlevania
> 50. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - both of these should be top 50 at least
> 40. Zelda II: The Adventure of Link - A Link to the Past >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Adventure of Link... worst... Zelda... EVER
> 38. Asteroids - FunkyM played this on (his dad's) Atari 7800, pretty addictive!
> 36. Final Fantasy III
> 29. Final Fantasy II - FunkyM's torn over which of these was better, but he guesses he's okay with this...
> 27. Final Fantasy VII - yeah this was massively over, but it still jobs to II & III (or IV & VI, whatever you want to call them)
> 23. Super Metroid - good stuff
> 19. Super Mario Kart - this game was a godsend!
> 16. GoldenEye 007 - probably a bit too high
> 15. Donkey Kong - two Donkey Kongs on the list? this one has the better spot
> 14. Super Mario Bros. 3 - switch this with Super Mario Bros. I and this list will be more correct... best Mario EVER!
> 12. Metal Gear Solid - about right
> 11. Metroid - about right
> 10. Pong - anyone still alive who actually played this when it came out?
> 9. Grand Theft Auto III - Wha?? No Vice City? Vice City was more over than GTA:III and it's the much better game (best soundtrack of any video game ever too)
> 8. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - FunkyM is sad to say he never played this one
> 7. Space Invaders - too high
> 6. Super Mario 64 - way too high
> 5. The Legend of Zelda - good stuff
> 4. Tetris - guess so
> 3. Street Fighter II - too high, maybe bottom of the top 10
> 2. Pac-Man - ok
> 1. Super Mario Bros. - jobs to SMB 3
peep peep!
Rockboy
>> I take it this is for console games only?
>
> Since every popular arcade and computer game from the 80s was ported to
> a console, yes.
>
>> Because most of them are shit.
>
> It's the top games "of their time," not by 2006 standards.
Yeah, but it's still just console games, so largely irrelevant. 95% of
those listed can't compete with PC games.
Bill Beaux
> Bill Beaux wrote:
>
>>> I take it this is for console games only?
>>
>>
>> Since every popular arcade and computer game from the 80s was ported
>> to a console, yes.
>>
>>> Because most of them are shit.
>>
>>
>> It's the top games "of their time," not by 2006 standards.
>
>
> Yeah, but it's still just console games, so largely irrelevant.
All of the big PC game releases of the past 5 years have been
co-developed for Xbox. Talk about irrelevance.
> 95% of those listed can't compete with PC games.
PC games can't compete with console games in the only place it matters,
sales. That's why every successful PC game in history has been ported
to a console. PC games are off-Broadway, consoles are Hollywood.
Chris Lansdell <RSPW Midcarder 4 Lyfe>
> Rockboy wrote:
Diablo II says hi. WoW says hi. Starcraft says hi. Championship Manager
says hi. HalfLife says hi.
Should I carry on?
Bill Beaux
> Bill Beaux , your post to rec.sport.pro-wrestling is almost better than a
> suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH!
>
>
>>Rockboy wrote:
>>
>>>Bill Beaux wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I take it this is for console games only?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Since every popular arcade and computer game from the 80s was ported
>>>>to a console, yes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Because most of them are shit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's the top games "of their time," not by 2006 standards.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yeah, but it's still just console games, so largely irrelevant.
>>
>>All of the big PC game releases of the past 5 years have been
>>co-developed for Xbox. Talk about irrelevance.
>>
>>
>>>95% of those listed can't compete with PC games.
>>
>>PC games can't compete with console games in the only place it matters,
>>sales. That's why every successful PC game in history has been ported
>>to a console. PC games are off-Broadway, consoles are Hollywood.
>>
>
>
> Diablo II says hi.
Aberration. Xbox has obsoleted the PC by co-opting its architecture.
Blizzard will undoubtedly make Diablo 3 for Xbox.
> WoW says hi.
Final Fantasy X sold more in one day than WoW has in a year. Minor-league.
> Starcraft says hi.
Starcraft sold less than Deer Hunter, dude. Nevertheless there is a
Starcraft game for Playstation. Much like a movie adaptation it had to
be jazzed up and mainstreamed for the HUGER audience.
> Championship Manager
> says hi.
Name the worst Playstation 2 game ever created. I bet it outsold
"Championship Manager".
> HalfLife says hi.
Half Life 2 is coming to Xbox, buddy.
>
> Should I carry on?
No, the metaphor wore thin several "his" ago. Retirement is my suggestion.
Consoles rule and are a much larger market than PCs. CASE CLOSED
Smart Feet
Oh, sorry. Nothing to say...
Chris Lansdell <RSPW Midcarder 4 Lyfe>
a suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH!
> Chris Lansdell <RSPW Midcarder 4 Lyfe> wrote:
>> Bill Beaux , your post to rec.sport.pro-wrestling is almost better
>> than a suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH!
>>
>>
>>>PC games can't compete with console games in the only place it
>>>matters, sales. That's why every successful PC game in history has
>>>been ported to a console. PC games are off-Broadway, consoles are
>>>Hollywood.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Diablo II says hi.
>
> Aberration. Xbox has obsoleted the PC by co-opting its architecture.
> Blizzard will undoubtedly make Diablo 3 for Xbox.
>
Undoubtedly? It's not even confirmed that Blizzard will make D3.
And "obsolete" is a noun, not a verb.
>> WoW says hi.
>
> Final Fantasy X sold more in one day than WoW has in a year.
> Minor-league.
>
Sorry, was I talking about sales? I hope you're not suggesting WoW is
NOT a success?
>> Starcraft says hi.
>
> Starcraft sold less than Deer Hunter, dude. Nevertheless there is a
> Starcraft game for Playstation. Much like a movie adaptation it had
> to be jazzed up and mainstreamed for the HUGER audience.
>
So it was, forgot about that one. And Deer Hunter sold because there are
a ton of rednecks with game consoles.
>> Championship Manager
>> says hi.
>
> Name the worst Playstation 2 game ever created. I bet it outsold
> "Championship Manager".
>
Once again, who cares? It was never ported.
>> HalfLife says hi.
>
> Half Life 2 is coming to Xbox, buddy.
>
Oh I see. Is that Half Life though? No, I think you'll find it's the
sequel.
> Consoles rule and are a much larger market than PCs. CASE CLOSED
>
You are misunderstanding. I am not disputing the larger market argument.
The argument was that "EVERY succesful PC game in history has been
ported to a console" (emphasis mine). I merely pointed out a few that
were not.
And just for the record, the case is not arbitrarily closed because you
say so. Unless you have a Jesus Card to show me? Cos then, like, you
could do that.
Brian E. Harris
<in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Starcraft says hi.
>
>Starcraft sold less than Deer Hunter, dude. Nevertheless there is a
>Starcraft game for Playstation. Much like a movie adaptation it had to
>be jazzed up and mainstreamed for the HUGER audience.
>
Uh, since when?
Starcraft is one of the best selling games of all time - not best
selling for the PC, or best selling RTS, but best selling game, of all
time.
It still continues to sell new copies to this date, and has outsold
most other games ever to hit the market.
There is NO Starcraft game for the Playstation.
The Starcraft game for the Playstation that you're talking about is
Starcraft: Ghost - and it's STILL under development, where it's been
for the last 3-4 years.
It's release was once again pushed back, this time to Q2 2006, at
which time it will probably be pushed back again.
Rockboy
> Chris Lansdell <RSPW Midcarder 4 Lyfe> wrote:
>> Bill Beaux , your post to rec.sport.pro-wrestling is almost better
>> than a suggestion to SIGN CARL ENGLISH!
>>
>>
>>> Rockboy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bill Beaux wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I take it this is for console games only?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Since every popular arcade and computer game from the 80s was
>>>>> ported to a console, yes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because most of them are shit.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the top games "of their time," not by 2006 standards.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, but it's still just console games, so largely irrelevant.
>>>
>>> All of the big PC game releases of the past 5 years have been
>>> co-developed for Xbox. Talk about irrelevance.
>>>
>>>
>>>> 95% of those listed can't compete with PC games.
>>>
>>> PC games can't compete with console games in the only place it
>>> matters, sales. That's why every successful PC game in history has
>>> been ported to a console. PC games are off-Broadway, consoles are
>>> Hollywood.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Diablo II says hi.
>
> Aberration. Xbox has obsoleted the PC by co-opting its architecture.
That's not even English. Anyway, PC hardware still vastly transcends
console hardware, so your point is irrelevant.
> Blizzard will undoubtedly make Diablo 3 for Xbox.
There's a Diablo 3 now?
>> WoW says hi.
>
> Final Fantasy X sold more in one day than WoW has in a year. Minor-league.
That doesn't make it a good game. Anyway, thanks to subscriptions,
World of Warcraft will be a much greater source of revenue than Final
Fantasy X ever was.
>> Starcraft says hi.
>
> Starcraft sold less than Deer Hunter, dude. Nevertheless there is a
> Starcraft game for Playstation. Much like a movie adaptation it had to
> be jazzed up and mainstreamed for the HUGER audience.
Translation, "dumbed down to run on a console, for the console market."
>> Championship Manager says hi.
>
> Name the worst Playstation 2 game ever created. I bet it outsold
> "Championship Manager".
>
>> HalfLife says hi.
>
> Half Life 2 is coming to Xbox, buddy.
One year after it came to PC, with a performance hit, and no
multi-player... but I thought you said all the big games were
co-developed for the Xbox....
>> Should I carry on?
>
> No, the metaphor wore thin several "his" ago. Retirement is my suggestion.
>
> Consoles rule and are a much larger market than PCs. CASE CLOSED
We're not discussing sales. We're discussing quality.
Rockboy
> Rockboy wrote:
>> Bill Beaux wrote:
>>
>>>> I take it this is for console games only?
>>>
>>>
>>> Since every popular arcade and computer game from the 80s was ported
>>> to a console, yes.
>>>
>>>> Because most of them are shit.
>>>
>>>
>>> It's the top games "of their time," not by 2006 standards.
>>
>>
>> Yeah, but it's still just console games, so largely irrelevant.
>
> All of the big PC game releases of the past 5 years have been
> co-developed for Xbox.
No.
> Talk about irrelevance.
The most fascinating bit of irrelevance here is your opinion.
>> 95% of those listed can't compete with PC games.
>
> PC games can't compete with console games in the only place it matters,
> sales.
The biggest failure of console games in the past few years has been
gameplay, so more and more often game developers try to cover that flaw
with graphics.
Which is funny, because even the latest next generation consoles can't
possibly compete with a PC in that department.
But anyway, back to the main point, PC games are better than console
games. Who cares about sales.
> That's why every successful PC game in history has been ported
> to a console.
No, and those that are ported are hollow shells of the original as they
get dumbed down to run on a TV and limited hardware.
ViNNY
> On 20 Jan 2006 03:44:52 -0800, MelMa...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>26. Phantasy Star: Everybody loves this game, and granted it's fun to
>>watch, but believe me it is not a great game. I've played with the game
>>and I would call it a poor to very poor game. It has good cut scenes
>>and is one of the best aerial flyers there is but when the cut scenes
>>are over this game can't work a lick! Working 6-player arcade matches
>>there isn't much outside of the cut scenes and the button mashing so
>>you don't notice it, but believe me if it's not in there with a gamer
>>to carry the gaming this game is lost!
>
>
> Since when is Phantasy Star an aerial flyer with a 6-player arcade
> version available?
The entire post was a re-wording of a (within pro wrestling groups)
famous rant by a bitter ex-pro wrestler about a list of the best
wrestlers ever. For the record, it wasn't very funny even if you knew
what the joke was.
-Vin
Noodles Jefferson
hamburger, threw it on the grill, and I said "Oh wow"...
> >
> > Diablo II says hi.
It'd be a lot more fun if the drops and your spells weren't so
ridiculously underpowered.
>
> > Starcraft says hi.
Starcraft fucking sucks.
>
--
Noodles Jefferson
mhm31x9 Smeeter#29 WSD#30
sTaRShInE_mOOnBeAm aT HoTmAil dOt CoM
NP: "Icicle" (Tour Rehearsal) -- Tori Amos
"Our earth is degenerate in these latter days, bribery and corruption
are common, children no longer obey their parents and the end of the
world is evidently approaching."
--Assyrian clay tablet 2800 B.C.
Poot Rootbeer
> All of the big PC game releases of the past 5 years have been
> co-developed for Xbox. Talk about irrelevance.
OK. "Your opinions."
> That's why every successful PC game in history has been ported to a
> console.
What consoles was Zork ever ported to?
Actually, thank god for that. If the console ports of Maniac Mansion,
King's Quest, Ultima, etc., etc. are any indicator, they would have had
to make Zork's graphics and gameplay worse. They would have had to
find a way.
> PC games are off-Broadway, consoles are Hollywood.
Right. PC gaming is where real art happens, consoles are all high-
priced glitz and glitter with no real substance.
-Poot
we agree
John.P....@gmail.com
> Bill Beaux <in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> wrote:
> > All of the big PC game releases of the past 5 years have been
> > co-developed for Xbox. Talk about irrelevance.
>
> OK. "Your opinions."
>
> > That's why every successful PC game in history has been ported to a
> > console.
>
> What consoles was Zork ever ported to?
>
> Actually, thank god for that. If the console ports of Maniac Mansion,
> King's Quest, Ultima, etc., etc. are any indicator, they would have had
> to make Zork's graphics and gameplay worse. They would have had to
> find a way.
If and when I replay Maniac Mansion at some point, I hope it will be
the NES version. Parts are censored and a D-pad is a little bit
tougher to use than a mouse, but I still consider the NES version
superior. As far as I recall it had better graphics, and more
importantly had music playing throughout, unlike the PC version.
> > PC games are off-Broadway, consoles are Hollywood.
>
> Right. PC gaming is where real art happens, consoles are all high-
> priced glitz and glitter with no real substance.
>
> -Poot
> we agree
The people on both sides of this argument are being childish and
ridiculous. PC gaming is not superior to console gaming, nor are
consoles superior to PCs. There are numerous masterpieces that span
all platforms. For every Starcraft there is a Super Mario 64; for
every Resident Evil 4 there is a Baldur's Gate; and for every Half-Life
there is a Grand Theft Auto.
Rockboy
>>> Diablo II says hi.
>
> It'd be a lot more fun if the drops and your spells weren't so
> ridiculously underpowered.
I hope that was sarcasm.
Noodles Jefferson
> Noodles Jefferson wrote:
>
> >>> Diablo II says hi.
> >
> > It'd be a lot more fun if the drops and your spells weren't so
> > ridiculously underpowered.
>
> I hope that was sarcasm.
>
You wish.
Why do you think they have things like maphack and drop hacks? Because
you find like one or two allegedly good items amidst a whole pile of
crap. Except the good stuff is always stuff that would have been useful
7 levels ago.
And they nerfed all the good spells.
Bill Beaux
> The people on both sides of this argument are being childish and
> ridiculous.
Not so, John. Ironically, given that consoles are designed to be
accessible by everyone including children, it's the PC advocates who are
acting cliquish, stuck-up and superior - even when the facts disagree
with their notions.
> PC gaming is not superior to console gaming, nor are
> consoles superior to PCs.
Speaking of "PC," this is a very politically correct statement. Reality
tells a different tale. PC gaming is dying, while consoles are on the
rise - creatively and technologically, in both cases.
There is little difference between a PC and console these days, anyway,
unless you're a complete graphics whore. There's nothing in terms of
raw gameplay that a PC can accomplish that a modern console can't.
Now that the online component has been mainstreamed, consoles are the
new PCs, as far as gaming goes. They're the future, as dictated by
willing level of investment.
> There are numerous masterpieces that span all platforms.
What current masterpieces are in development exclusively for PC? NetHack?
> For every Starcraft there is a Super Mario 64; for
> every Resident Evil 4 there is a Baldur's Gate; and for every Half-Life
> there is a Grand Theft Auto.
To be accurate, for every PC Starcraft there are 10-20 Super Mario 64s
for consoles. PC gaming is only a niche market.
Gerry Quinn
says...
> Bill Beaux wrote:
> > Aberration. Xbox has obsoleted the PC by co-opting its architecture.
>
> That's not even English. Anyway, PC hardware still vastly transcends
> console hardware, so your point is irrelevant.
To be fair, the American penchant for creating verbs from certain non-
verbs is commonplace enough that it may be considered acceptable by the
less prescriptive lexicographers among us. The omission of a starting
"The" is also okay.
"XBox has made the PC obsolete" is slightly clumsy. I'm happy to give
"obsoleted" the nod. Though I would object to, say, "XBox is
obsolescenting the PC"...
This says nothing about the truth or otherwise of the statement, of
course. Most of the games I want to play are released on PC, I can
play them without having to sit in front of the television, and the
control systems are infinitely superior.
- Gerry Quinn
Bill Beaux
> Most of the games I want to play are released on PC,
Gerry, I know a person who disdains CD players because the only music
she wants to listen to is on vinyl. What does that prove?
> I can play them without having to sit in front of the television,
You aren't required to set up a console in a casual environment. Every
modern console supports VGA out.
> and the
> control systems are infinitely superior.
It's a qwerty keyboard, the same incredible game control system ported
from... manual typewriters.
Andrew
<in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> tried desperately to sound clever with:
>It's a qwerty keyboard, the same incredible game control system ported
>from... manual typewriters.
That's funny, I never used a manual typewriter that had mouse control.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Bill Beaux
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 07:49:52 -0800, Bill Beaux
> <in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> tried desperately to sound clever with:
>
>
>>It's a qwerty keyboard, the same incredible game control system ported
>>from... manual typewriters.
>
>
> That's funny, I never used a manual typewriter that had mouse control.
Hence, the introductory phrase which limited my comment to keyboards.
I figure, what's the point in discussing the mouse? Maybe in the 1990s
it made a big difference, but analog control buttons, pads and sticks
have been on standard console gamepads for almost a decade now.
What can you do with a mouse that you can't with a thumbstick? Get
carpal tunnel?
Gerry Quinn
in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk says...
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
> > Most of the games I want to play are released on PC,
>
> Gerry, I know a person who disdains CD players because the only music
> she wants to listen to is on vinyl. What does that prove?
That she doesn't need a CD player.
> > I can play them without having to sit in front of the television,
>
> You aren't required to set up a console in a casual environment. Every
> modern console supports VGA out.
I have a computer that can serve multiple functions, and it has hi-res
graphics to boot.
> > and the
> > control systems are infinitely superior.
>
> It's a qwerty keyboard, the same incredible game control system ported
> from... manual typewriters.
What has the keyboard to do with anything? Most games are largely
mouse-controlled, but with optional keyboard input. Of course some
games are better for having many control buttons, and the keyboard with
its familiar mnemonic letter markings is perfect for the purpose. (Let
us not forget the numeric keypad, so good for secondary directional
control.
- Gerry Quinn
Gerry Quinn
in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk says...
> Andrew wrote:
> > On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 07:49:52 -0800, Bill Beaux
> > <in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> tried desperately to sound clever with:
> >
> >>It's a qwerty keyboard, the same incredible game control system ported
> >>from... manual typewriters.
> >
> > That's funny, I never used a manual typewriter that had mouse control.
>
> Hence, the introductory phrase which limited my comment to keyboards.
Since your comment was intended to defend the adequacy of consoles,
ignoring the existence of the mouse invalidates it.
> I figure, what's the point in discussing the mouse? Maybe in the 1990s
> it made a big difference, but analog control buttons, pads and sticks
> have been on standard console gamepads for almost a decade now.
>
> What can you do with a mouse that you can't with a thumbstick? Get
> carpal tunnel?
Control 'pointable' objects accurately, obviously. Most modern laptops
have one or more alternative pointer controls (mine has a touch pad and
a thumb stick), but they are just crappy substitutes for the mouse, to
be used in cramped locations or places where there is nowhere to lay a
mouse-mat.
- Gerry Quinn
imagenieinabottlebaby
rafiki wrote:
> >From the new edition of Electronic Gaming Monthly, thoughts on the
> list?
> 198. Utopia
Which one? games.swirve.com utopia?
> 197. NFL 2K1
> 196. Guitar Hero
Ha ha ha!
> 195. The Chronicles of Riddick
There goes there credibility.
> 189. Metal Gear
This game made me feel asleep. The never released MSX version was so
much better.
> 185. Dragon's Lair
I'm still waiting for graphics that are as good as Dragon's Lair had.
It's the reason I don't like 3d graphics. Look at the average video
game produced today (especialy the ones made by American companies and
especially PC games, because they don't use cel shading), all the games
put out today look like crap. 3d rendering still looks awful today even
with all the so called "technical advances" over the last 15 years, all
the round shapes are actually octagons, all the textures look like
plastic, and all the colors look like they came from those airbrushed
t-shirts you buy at the flea market. Take any popular PC or console
game you want, shooters like Medal of Honor 2, Doom 3, or whatever,
Marvel Vs Capcom and Guilty Gear XX reload still look better.
Cel shading and 3d comic inking are an improvement but still not good
enough IMO. High quality 2d sprites should be the future of gaming.
Whenever I finally get around to making a video game it's going to have
high quality sprites well drawn by a team of talented artists. With
this I will take over the videogame world and create a billion dollar
media empire.
> 35. Tomb Raider
Most overrated game ever. And it just proves my point above, that
gamers will get a boner over the crappiest 3d rendering.
> 36. Final Fantasy III
> 29. Final Fantasy II
Huh?
> 2. Pac-Man
> 1. Super Mario Bros.
No way, Pac-Man should be above Super Mario Brothers. Pac-Man had
greater popularity with mainstream America and is the reason video
games are so popular today. Super Mario Brothers was just popular with
gamers, Pac-Man had mainstream appeal much like rubik's cubes and
orange juliuses, it was popular with people who had never played video
games before and turned people onto video games. In fact, if it wasn't
for Pac-Man none of us might be playing video games today.
>
> --rafiki
imagenieinabottlebaby
Bill Beaux
> Since your comment was intended to defend the adequacy of consoles,
> ignoring the existence of the mouse invalidates it.
The mouse+keyboard combo have been regular accessories for every console
since the Sega Saturn. If they are such superior control devices for
gaming, why do the game companies -- and the majority of consumers --
stick with gamepads?
>>I figure, what's the point in discussing the mouse? Maybe in the 1990s
>>it made a big difference, but analog control buttons, pads and sticks
>>have been on standard console gamepads for almost a decade now.
>>
>>What can you do with a mouse that you can't with a thumbstick? Get
>>carpal tunnel?
>
>
> Control 'pointable' objects accurately, obviously.
Nintendo agrees with you, which is why they have painstakingly
engineered the Nintendo DS and Codename:Revolution's alternative
pointing devices. I think anyone would agree that a stylus is a much
more accurate pointer than a mouse. The mouse, my friend, has been
surpassed.
> Most modern laptops
> have one or more alternative pointer controls (mine has a touch pad and
> a thumb stick), but they are just crappy substitutes for the mouse, to
> be used in cramped locations or places where there is nowhere to lay a
> mouse-mat.
It almost seems as if the primary advantage of the PC over the console
is the desk it sits upon.
Brian E. Harris
<in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> wrote:
>There is little difference between a PC and console these days, anyway,
>unless you're a complete graphics whore. There's nothing in terms of
>raw gameplay that a PC can accomplish that a modern console can't.
Then why don't the modern consoles attempt to accomplish it?
>Now that the online component has been mainstreamed, consoles are the
>new PCs, as far as gaming goes. They're the future, as dictated by
>willing level of investment.
>To be accurate, for every PC Starcraft there are 10-20 Super Mario 64s
>for consoles. PC gaming is only a niche market.
I can agree with this statement.
For every great PC game, there's 10-20 console games that are nothing
more, really, than a hack or crappy clone of one decent console game.
deadand...@gmail.com
classic. <
Mario Kart 64, particularly with the abyssmal AI, sucked. SNES Maro
Kart shits all over it.
Johnny Bravo
<silve...@tacoshells.com> wrote:
>In article <QDYAf.203860$tl.194878@pd7tw3no>, Rockboy took the
>hamburger, threw it on the grill, and I said "Oh wow"...
>
>> Noodles Jefferson wrote:
>>
>> >>> Diablo II says hi.
>> >
>> > It'd be a lot more fun if the drops and your spells weren't so
>> > ridiculously underpowered.
>>
>> I hope that was sarcasm.
>>
>
>You wish.
>
>Why do you think they have things like maphack and drop hacks?
For the same reason there are things like aimbot, for some bizarre reason some
people actually measure their ego by how well they play games and don't care if
they are cheating when they do it.
John Lewis
<in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> wrote:
>Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
>> Since your comment was intended to defend the adequacy of consoles,
>> ignoring the existence of the mouse invalidates it.
>
>The mouse+keyboard combo have been regular accessories for every console
>since the Sega Saturn. If they are such superior control devices for
>gaming, why do the game companies -- and the majority of consumers --
>stick with gamepads?
>
And why does the top$$ action gameplayer in the world still use a
mouse(Fatal1ty)........... Thinking further, where are the big-bucks
in on-line pro-gaming; certainly not in the consoles crippled by a 60
Hz refesh-rate and frequently 30Hz actual update rate due to
performance limitations of the CPU and graphics processor. Even in the
Xbox360, the optimum usable performance is equivalent to a 2.4GHz
Pentium 4 coupled with a X850 GPU with DX9.0c enhancements,
regardless of the expensive marketing campaign to make the
technically-illiterate think otherwise.
Fatal1ty would be twiddling his thumbs on a gamepad between refreshes
- in fact, he would need to be on Prozac to slow down his responses
enough. Yeah, the consoles are for casual action game-players; PCs for
the pros.
John Lewis
Bill Beaux
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:34:22 -0800, Bill Beaux
> <in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>Gerry Quinn wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Since your comment was intended to defend the adequacy of consoles,
>>>ignoring the existence of the mouse invalidates it.
>>
>>The mouse+keyboard combo have been regular accessories for every console
>>since the Sega Saturn. If they are such superior control devices for
>>gaming, why do the game companies -- and the majority of consumers --
>>stick with gamepads?
>>
>
>
> And why does the top$$ action gameplayer in the world still use a
> mouse
He doesn't. America isn't the world, John. Guys like Daigo Umehara
have been making big bucks playing arcade games professionally for
decades now.
One of the most impressive movies of all time was THE WIZARD, which was
about an NES game tournament winner. The only movie about a PC gamer
was WAR GAMES, and that idiot almost destroyed the planet. If that's
what a PC's advanced hoo-hah will result in, I'll take consoles, thanks.
Poot Rootbeer
> Mario Kart 64, particularly with the abyssmal AI, sucked. SNES Maro
> Kart shits all over it.
This is the opinion of someone who does not have three friends.
-Poot
or 3 extra N64 controllers
Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
<snip>
>I figure, what's the point in discussing the mouse? Maybe in the 1990s
>it made a big difference, but analog control buttons, pads and sticks
>have been on standard console gamepads for almost a decade now.
>
>What can you do with a mouse that you can't with a thumbstick? Get
>carpal tunnel?
Precision control/aim.
There's a reason that various games that appear on both PC and console
feature auto-aim for consoles but not for PC. The PC with mouse doesn't
need the auto-aim crutch the console does.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Rockboy
> I figure, what's the point in discussing the mouse? Maybe in the 1990s
> it made a big difference, but analog control buttons, pads and sticks
> have been on standard console gamepads for almost a decade now.
And that's why First Person Shooters will always be a joke on consoles.
Rockboy
>>>>> Diablo II says hi.
>>> It'd be a lot more fun if the drops and your spells weren't so
>>> ridiculously underpowered.
>> I hope that was sarcasm.
>
> You wish.
>
> Why do you think they have things like maphack and drop hacks?
For pussies like you?
Rockboy
What, you don't enjoy playing Shoot Someone in the Head Game #472, or
Car Racing Game #886?
Bill Beaux
> Bill Beaux wrote:
>
>> I figure, what's the point in discussing the mouse? Maybe in the
>> 1990s it made a big difference, but analog control buttons, pads and
>> sticks have been on standard console gamepads for almost a decade now.
>
>
> And that's why First Person Shooters will always be a joke on consoles.
Game developers disagree. PC FPS games are now developed for consoles
first, PCs second.
Call of Duty 2, Battlefield 2, Quake 4 -- all designed from the start to
accomodate the console's more elegant and refined control scheme. (The
console versions all outsold their PC counterparts, too.)
Codename:Revolution's controller will be more accurate than a mouse for
FPS aiming.
Consoles win.
Gerry Quinn
in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk says...
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
> > Since your comment was intended to defend the adequacy of consoles,
> > ignoring the existence of the mouse invalidates it.
>
> The mouse+keyboard combo have been regular accessories for every console
> since the Sega Saturn. If they are such superior control devices for
> gaming, why do the game companies -- and the majority of consumers --
> stick with gamepads?
The usual inertia effect - if only a few players use them, there is
little point designing the game to suit them. Console players are
self-selected as being happy with limited controls. Probably they
slump on the couch in front of the TV and have no room for a mouse-mat.
> >>I figure, what's the point in discussing the mouse? Maybe in the 1990s
> >>it made a big difference, but analog control buttons, pads and sticks
> >>have been on standard console gamepads for almost a decade now.
> >>
> >>What can you do with a mouse that you can't with a thumbstick? Get
> >>carpal tunnel?
> >
> >
> > Control 'pointable' objects accurately, obviously.
>
> Nintendo agrees with you, which is why they have painstakingly
> engineered the Nintendo DS and Codename:Revolution's alternative
> pointing devices. I think anyone would agree that a stylus is a much
> more accurate pointer than a mouse. The mouse, my friend, has been
> surpassed.
I am not familiar with the device. But it doesn't seem to be in
general use.
> > Most modern laptops
> > have one or more alternative pointer controls (mine has a touch pad and
> > a thumb stick), but they are just crappy substitutes for the mouse, to
> > be used in cramped locations or places where there is nowhere to lay a
> > mouse-mat.
>
> It almost seems as if the primary advantage of the PC over the console
> is the desk it sits upon.
I would say rather that both have evolved to suit their environment.
Horses evolved on the plains, while frogs evolved in shallow ponds. A
horse cannot run fast in a shallow pond. That does not alter the fact
that horses are usually found on plains, where they run faster than
frogs.
- Gerry Quinn
Bill Beaux
>>The mouse+keyboard combo have been regular accessories for every console
>>since the Sega Saturn. If they are such superior control devices for
>>gaming, why do the game companies -- and the majority of consumers --
>>stick with gamepads?
>
>
> The usual inertia effect - if only a few players use them, there is
> little point designing the game to suit them. Console players are
> self-selected as being happy with limited controls. Probably they
> slump on the couch in front of the TV and have no room for a mouse-mat.
Do you stereotype the races, too? This is quite an assumption.
>>>>What can you do with a mouse that you can't with a thumbstick? Get
>>>>carpal tunnel?
>>>
>>>Control 'pointable' objects accurately, obviously.
>>
>>Nintendo agrees with you, which is why they have painstakingly
>>engineered the Nintendo DS and Codename:Revolution's alternative
>>pointing devices. I think anyone would agree that a stylus is a much
>>more accurate pointer than a mouse. The mouse, my friend, has been
>>surpassed.
>
> I am not familiar with the device. But it doesn't seem to be in
> general use.
About 13 million Nintendo DS units have been sold. Codename:Revolution
is still under development, but the mouse should be scared.
>>It almost seems as if the primary advantage of the PC over the console
>>is the desk it sits upon.
>
> I would say rather that both have evolved to suit their environment.
> Horses evolved on the plains, while frogs evolved in shallow ponds. A
> horse cannot run fast in a shallow pond. That does not alter the fact
> that horses are usually found on plains, where they run faster than
> frogs.
While I do agree with you that "The Oregon Trail" was a better game than
"Frogger," I fail to see how that is relevant.
Andrew
<in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> wrote:
>Call of Duty 2, Battlefield 2, Quake 4 -- all designed from the start to
>accomodate the console's more elegant and refined control scheme. (The
>console versions all outsold their PC counterparts, too.)
I don't know enough about the relative controls of CoD2 and Q4, but
you are talking complete cobblers about BF2. You would get your ass
handed to you playing via a gamepad against a mouse player.
John.P....@gmail.com
This is just so stupid. Of course there are tons of garbage,
derivative games on consoles - there are tons of garbage, derivative
games on PCs as well.
Resident Evil 4, Shadow of the Colossus, ICO, Knights of the Old
Republic, GTA: San Andreas.
Now name 5 masterpieces developed for PC from the past couple of years.
I'll do it for you:
Half-Life 2
World of Warcraft (if that counts)
I'll admit that I am not currently a part of the PC gaming scene (but
have been in the past, have nothing against it, and will be again in
the future - I have no current hardware), but I seriously doubt
anything else matches up to what I named for consoles.
Keep up the ignorance guys.
Brian E. Harris
<in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> wrote:
>Rockboy wrote:
>> Bill Beaux wrote:
>>
>>> I figure, what's the point in discussing the mouse? Maybe in the
>>> 1990s it made a big difference, but analog control buttons, pads and
>>> sticks have been on standard console gamepads for almost a decade now.
>>
>>
>> And that's why First Person Shooters will always be a joke on consoles.
>
>Game developers disagree. PC FPS games are now developed for consoles
>first, PCs second.
>
>Call of Duty 2, Battlefield 2, Quake 4 -- all designed from the start to
>accomodate the console's more elegant and refined control scheme. (The
>console versions all outsold their PC counterparts, too.)
Do you just make this up as you go along, or are you smoking the
reefer?
Rockboy
>>> The mouse+keyboard combo have been regular accessories for every
>>> console since the Sega Saturn. If they are such superior control
>>> devices for gaming, why do the game companies -- and the majority of
>>> consumers -- stick with gamepads?
>>
>> The usual inertia effect - if only a few players use them, there is
>> little point designing the game to suit them. Console players are
>> self-selected as being happy with limited controls. Probably they
>> slump on the couch in front of the TV and have no room for a mouse-mat.
>
> Do you stereotype the races, too?
If they slump on the couch, yes.
Gerry Quinn
in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk says...
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
>
> >>The mouse+keyboard combo have been regular accessories for every console
> >>since the Sega Saturn. If they are such superior control devices for
> >>gaming, why do the game companies -- and the majority of consumers --
> >>stick with gamepads?
> > The usual inertia effect - if only a few players use them, there is
> > little point designing the game to suit them. Console players are
> > self-selected as being happy with limited controls. Probably they
> > slump on the couch in front of the TV and have no room for a mouse-mat.
> Do you stereotype the races, too? This is quite an assumption.
Well, it's my impression that consoles are designed for this
environment. People rarely sit erect on couches, and they have little
room for a mouse mat.
> > I am not familiar with the device. But it doesn't seem to be in
> > general use.
>
> About 13 million Nintendo DS units have been sold. Codename:Revolution
> is still under development, but the mouse should be scared.
Mice are always scared, but they are among the most successful of
species.
> >>It almost seems as if the primary advantage of the PC over the console
> >>is the desk it sits upon.
> >
> > I would say rather that both have evolved to suit their environment.
> > Horses evolved on the plains, while frogs evolved in shallow ponds. A
> > horse cannot run fast in a shallow pond. That does not alter the fact
> > that horses are usually found on plains, where they run faster than
> > frogs.
>
> While I do agree with you that "The Oregon Trail" was a better game than
> "Frogger," I fail to see how that is relevant.
You protest that the envioronments PCs and consoles are found in are
irrelevant. But those environments have largely made them what they
are.
- Gerry Quinn
Bill Beaux
> Bill Beaux <in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> looked up from reading the
> entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
> say:
> <snip>
>
>>I figure, what's the point in discussing the mouse? Maybe in the 1990s
>>it made a big difference, but analog control buttons, pads and sticks
>>have been on standard console gamepads for almost a decade now.
>>
>>What can you do with a mouse that you can't with a thumbstick? Get
>>carpal tunnel?
>
>
> Precision control/aim.
You act as if the mouse+keyboard combo is in all ways superior to a
standard console controller. Actually, it depends on the game. e.g.,
you would be much more accurate in "Battle Arena Toshinden" with an
arcade or console controller than with a mouse and keyboard.
Bill Beaux
> Well, it's my impression that consoles are designed for this
> environment.
This is not entirely correct, since console controls are derived from
arcade controls. It is not typically possible to play an arcade game
while slumped on a couch.
>>About 13 million Nintendo DS units have been sold. Codename:Revolution
>>is still under development, but the mouse should be scared.
>
>
> Mice are always scared, but they are among the most successful of
> species.
It's "mouses". cf. PC Magazine, December 1986.
> You protest that the envioronments PCs and consoles are found in are
> irrelevant. But those environments have largely made them what they
> are.
That is tautologous.
Andrew
<in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk> wrote:
>You act as if the mouse+keyboard combo is in all ways superior to a
>standard console controller. Actually, it depends on the game. e.g.,
>you would be much more accurate in "Battle Arena Toshinden" with an
>arcade or console controller than with a mouse and keyboard.
The point is that a gamepad is very much a jack of all trades and
master of none. It can be used for fighting, driving, flying or FPS
games but all these are better played on an arcade board, steering
wheel, joystick or kb/mouse. Console users make do with what they
have, whereas PC users are more likely to buy an appropriate
controller for their favoured type of game.
Lucian Wischik
>an arcade board, steering
>wheel, joystick or kb/mouse. Console users make do with what they
>have, whereas PC users are more likely to buy an appropriate
>controller for their favoured type of game.
You think so? For consoles I've bought (1) dance mat, (2) microphone
for karaoke, (3) light-gun. For PC I've only ever bought joysticks.
--
Lucian
Xocyll
Except for games specifically written to use a controller the
mouse/keyboard combo is superior.
Precision control/aim from the mouse and extensive flexibility from the
keyboard.
There's no game that cannot be played on mouse/keyboard, but there's
loads of games that won't work well on a controller because there just
aren't enough controls.
You don't get auto-aim functions on PC because you don't _NEED_ them as
you do with a controller.
On the flip side, the analog control stick is superior for things like a
throttle that doesn't have discrete intervals - as in GTA:SA where the
PC has full on/full off.
Even then though, I can drive just fine tapping the accel key, but the
controller version has to have the auto-aim crutch the mouse version
doesn't need.
Gerry Quinn
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
> > You protest that the envioronments PCs and consoles are found in are
> > irrelevant. But those environments have largely made them what they
> > are.
>
> That is tautologous.
No, it's a statement with newly-introduced semantic content relating to
the evolution of hardware.
It explains why the differences exist and why they are likely to
persist. The device designed for a more expansive environment will be
the one that takes advantages of the facilities of such an environment.
- Gerry Quinn
Lucian Wischik
>There's no game that cannot be played on mouse/keyboard
Dance Dance Revolution
Karaoke Revolution
Any light-gun game
Light-saber battles as with Nintendo Revolution controller
Serious flight simulators (require joystick)
X-Wing Alliance (also required joystick)
Pac Man (the arcade paddle is much more precise)
Any game that uses vibration as a feedback
--
Lucian
Bill Beaux
>>>You protest that the envioronments PCs and consoles are found in are
>>>irrelevant. But those environments have largely made them what they
>>>are.
>>
>>That is tautologous.
>
>
> No
What thing exists free from environmental influence?
Bill Beaux
> There's no game that cannot be played on mouse/keyboard,
Games requiring analog button input cannot be played with a mouse/keyboard.
> but there's
> loads of games that won't work well on a controller because there just
> aren't enough controls.
Depends on the controller. The Atari Jaguar's had 20 buttons.
> You don't get auto-aim functions on PC because you don't _NEED_ them as
> you do with a controller.
Precise aim is not the Holy Grail of fun game programming. I would
rather aim a light gun peripheral and score badly at "Duck Hunt" than
use a mouse to get a perfect score.
> On the flip side, the analog control stick is superior for things like a
> throttle that doesn't have discrete intervals
Also, console controls are superior for "Battle Arena Toshinden". Four
adjacent buttons on a keyboard cannot equal the fine control offered by
a D-pad.
Gerry Quinn
in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk says...
Nothing, although not all things are made what they are by their
environment.
But even if all things were the product of their environment, my
statement would have been redundant rather than tautologous.
- Gerry Quinn
Xocyll
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
OK let me rephrase - there is no game _worth_playing_ that cannot be
played on mouse/keyboard.
And yes, XWAL was playable with a mouse, as was Xwing and Tie fighter
before it.
It's maybe not quite as precise as a joystick, but it can be done, and
once you're used to it, using a joystick feels odd.
Lucian Wischik
>And yes, XWAL was playable with a mouse, as was Xwing and Tie fighter
>before it.
Ah. I was thinking of Xwing Vs Tie-Fighter, which could NOT be played
without joystick.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Wing_vs._TIE_Fighter
--
Lucian
Bill Beaux
> Lucian Wischik <lu...@wischik.com> looked up from reading the entrails
> of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>
>>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
>>
>>>There's no game that cannot be played on mouse/keyboard
>>
>>Dance Dance Revolution
>>Karaoke Revolution
>>Any light-gun game
>>Light-saber battles as with Nintendo Revolution controller
>>Serious flight simulators (require joystick)
>>X-Wing Alliance (also required joystick)
>>Pac Man (the arcade paddle is much more precise)
>>Any game that uses vibration as a feedback
>
>
> OK let me rephrase - there is no game _worth_playing_ that cannot be
> played on mouse/keyboard.
Objective worth is measured by profitability. "Dance Dance Revolution"
alone has taken in more money worldwide in its lifetime than every PC
game of 2004-2005 combined.
Bill Beaux
> In article <dratkd$49s$1...@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk says...
>
>>Gerry Quinn wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>You protest that the envioronments PCs and consoles are found in are
>>>>>irrelevant. But those environments have largely made them what they
>>>>>are.
>>>>
>>>>That is tautologous.
>>>
>>>
>>>No
>>
>>What thing exists free from environmental influence?
>
>
> Nothing, although not all things are made what they are by their
> environment.
Only if you are a hippie volitionist. I don't use LSD, Gerry.
> But even if all things were the product of their environment, my
> statement would have been redundant rather than tautologous.
That depends on how environment is defined.
Consoles win again.
Rockboy
>> And yes, XWAL was playable with a mouse, as was Xwing and Tie fighter
>> before it.
>
> Ah. I was thinking of Xwing Vs Tie-Fighter, which could NOT be played
> without joystick.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Wing_vs._TIE_Fighter
That's not the only reason that game was unplayable.
Xocyll
of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>Xocyll <Xoc...@kingston.net> wrote:
Never even looked at that game since it was multiplayer only.
Gerry Quinn
in...@baggsuperstore.co.uk says...
> Gerry Quinn wrote:
Either way, it seems that you are agreeing rather than disagreeing with
my observation that the limited environment consoles are usually found
in leads to limited interface.
Actually it's completely unquestionable - forgetting about control
systems, the effect of the environment on console screen resolution is
obvious.
- Gerry Quinn
Xocyll
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
>Xocyll wrote:
>
>> There's no game that cannot be played on mouse/keyboard,
>
>Games requiring analog button input cannot be played with a mouse/keyboard.
>
>> but there's
>> loads of games that won't work well on a controller because there just
>> aren't enough controls.
>
>Depends on the controller. The Atari Jaguar's had 20 buttons.
>
>> You don't get auto-aim functions on PC because you don't _NEED_ them as
>> you do with a controller.
>
>Precise aim is not the Holy Grail of fun game programming. I would
>rather aim a light gun peripheral and score badly at "Duck Hunt" than
>use a mouse to get a perfect score.
How nice for you, but precise aiming IS the Holy Grail of Shooters.
If you can't aim properly you can't hit anything and that means shortly
later you're dead and that's not fun.
Of course that's not an issue on consoles where the game aims for you.
There's a reason joysticks aren't generally supported peripherals in
Shooters, because they are lousy to aim with.
Those who can, aim, those who can't, play games with auto-aim.