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Oliver Postlethwaite

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Aug 18, 1993, 10:53:45 PM8/18/93
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Here we go...

ARN ANDERSON/PAUL ROMA vs. STEVE AUSTIN/STEVEN REGAL...Regal subbed for
Pillman who came to the ring with crutches and a cast. A pretty good match
and probably Regal's best in WCW. Anderson with a schoolboy on Austin.
New champs (***1/2).....BOBBY EATON vs. 2 COLD SCORPIO...Scorpio worked
his ass of in this match BUT only about half of his moves connected.
Threepio with the diss that don't miss (***).....MAXX PAYNE vs. JOHNNY
B. BADD...Badd with the pin in about 3 minutes after Payne misses a
splash. Badd leaves with Norma Jean. He'll unmask this weekend. Some
nice stuff but way too short (**).....FLAIR FOR THE GOLD...Guests are
Sting and DBS. DBS almost strangles himself screaming at the audience.
Out come Sid, Parker, and Harlem Heat. Then the faces introduce their
partner for War Games in what has to be the most embarassing entrance
in wrestling history. The SHOCK MASTER falls (as opposed to charges)
through a wall in the set and his helmet falls off. He looked like
Typhoon, but I dunno. He wore a silver glitter painted Stormtrooper
helmet and had a canned interview ala Nailz. Jesse couldn't keep himself
from laughing about this for awhile.....RICKY STEAMBOAT vs. PAUL ORNDORFF
...Michael Buffer intros this match quite nicely. Another good match on
the card. Steamboat seemed to really extend himself in this one. Ricky
earns the victory with a small package. Paula piledrives Steamboat onto
the belt after the match. Did you know that Orndorff has held the TV
title since last November? ;-( New champ (***1/2).....THE COLOSSAL KONGS
vs. RIC FLAIR/STING...Buffer again. A two minute squash by the faces
would you believe? Sting works his ass off just clobbering the Kongs.
Flair does well too and gets some awesome jabs in on Race. Sting with
the Superfly splash from the top rope. Hot match but too short to give
a legitimate rating to.....THE EQUALIZER/RICK RUDE vs. DUSTIN RHODES/
HAWK...I was worried after seeing the Shlock Master. ANIMAL actually
appeared first, driving the Z28. Then Hawk sneaks Rude and EQ from behind
and the match begins. Not too shabby a match but I'm surprised that the
crowd wasn't as hot for the return of the LOD/Road Warriors (they were
referred to as both). Dustin pins EQ after Hawk knocks DR onto EQ (???).
***.....DAVEY BOY SMITH vs. BIG VAN VADER...Buffer. A nice power match
but a leetle bit to slow. Vader was pretty stiff on DBS and DBS got in
a nice flurry of shots to Vader towards the end. No Vadersault. Vader
pins DBS after Race clips DBS (sort of). Vader beats on DBS after the
match but then out comes CACTUS JACK who gives Vader a good tackle and
the goes to check on DBS as the camera fades (***1/2).....


/Oliver
--
Oliver Postlethwaite | The person belonging to this .seeg
ab...@Freenet.carleton.ca | prefers The Ren & Stimpy Show to
dm...@cleveland.freenet.edu | oral hygiene!
----------------------------------------------------------------

Rick Scaia

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Aug 19, 1993, 12:10:34 AM8/19/93
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In a previous article, ab...@Freenet.carleton.ca (Oliver Postlethwaite) says:
>
>ARN ANDERSON/PAUL ROMA vs. STEVE AUSTIN/STEVEN REGAL...Regal subbed for
>Pillman who came to the ring with crutches and a cast. A pretty good match
>and probably Regal's best in WCW. Anderson with a schoolboy on Austin.
>New champs (***1/2).....

WCW's Orlando tapings weren't a mistake?? After this, anyone who's been
holding that opinion had better think again... the title _HAD_ to change,
and Pillman couldn't work. The result: a really bogus "forced" substitution.
Regal for Pillman. A decent cover-up, I guess... better than a masked
"Hombre" that was obviously not Shane Douglas. And the match was't too awful,
either. WCW barely dodges one bullet, here.

>BOBBY EATON vs. 2 COLD SCORPIO...Scorpio worked
>his ass of in this match BUT only about half of his moves connected.
>Threepio with the diss that don't miss (***).....

Eaton's gotta be getting sick of Scorpio missing finishers against him...
at Slamboree, wasn't it Eaton that got his face smashed?? This time, the
Diss lands a knee to Eaton's head. Too many missed moves for my taste, but
a lot of great effort.

>MAXX PAYNE vs. JOHNNY
>B. BADD...Badd with the pin in about 3 minutes after Payne misses a
>splash. Badd leaves with Norma Jean. He'll unmask this weekend. Some
>nice stuff but way too short (**).....

It could have been even shorter, and I wouldn't have minded... They didn't
even have to have this match. Boring... and stupid, too. I can't wait to
see what JBB "really" looks like this Saturday....

>FLAIR FOR THE GOLD...Guests are
>Sting and DBS. DBS almost strangles himself screaming at the audience.
>Out come Sid, Parker, and Harlem Heat. Then the faces introduce their
>partner for War Games in what has to be the most embarassing entrance
>in wrestling history. The SHOCK MASTER falls (as opposed to charges)
>through a wall in the set and his helmet falls off. He looked like
>Typhoon, but I dunno. He wore a silver glitter painted Stormtrooper
>helmet and had a canned interview ala Nailz. Jesse couldn't keep himself
>from laughing about this for awhile.....

I never really understood "Bufoon" was such a popular nickname for Typhoon...
until tonight. The guy makes his WCW debut (with one of the cheesiest
gimmicks I can remember), and he falls down. What a shock...

>RICKY STEAMBOAT vs. PAUL ORNDORFF
>...Michael Buffer intros this match quite nicely. Another good match on
>the card. Steamboat seemed to really extend himself in this one. Ricky
>earns the victory with a small package. Paula piledrives Steamboat onto
>the belt after the match. Did you know that Orndorff has held the TV
>title since last November? ;-( New champ (***1/2).....

The best match of the night, IMO... and I knew who was gonna win. That's
not a great commentary on the rest of the show, now is it?? ***1/2 seems
just about right on this one.

>THE COLOSSAL KONGS
>vs. RIC FLAIR/STING...Buffer again. A two minute squash by the faces
>would you believe? Sting works his ass off just clobbering the Kongs.
>Flair does well too and gets some awesome jabs in on Race. Sting with
>the Superfly splash from the top rope. Hot match but too short to give
>a legitimate rating to.....

I was really disappointed with this one... if they're gonna bother taking up
the time to set up the match, and then do it on TV, they should have made it
worth my while (and if they had just not bothered with it, the Vader/Smith
match could have gone longer than 10 minutes). Sure it was a hot little
match, but really, was there any question?

>THE EQUALIZER/RICK RUDE vs. DUSTIN RHODES/
>HAWK...I was worried after seeing the Shlock Master. ANIMAL actually
>appeared first, driving the Z28. Then Hawk sneaks Rude and EQ from behind
>and the match begins. Not too shabby a match but I'm surprised that the
>crowd wasn't as hot for the return of the LOD/Road Warriors (they were
>referred to as both). Dustin pins EQ after Hawk knocks DR onto EQ (???).
>***.....

WCW dodged the biggest bullet by actually getting not only one, but both
Road Warriors to appear. Some one should tell Animal that leading the
crowd in chanting "LOD... LOD" isn't a good idea now that they're back in
WCW. As pleasently surprised as I was to actually see the Roadies, the actual
match was much worse than I would have thought. I hadn't seen the Equalizer
till tonight, and to put it bluntly, he sucks. None of the others did much
to make up for EQ's deficiency.

>DAVEY BOY SMITH vs. BIG VAN VADER...Buffer. A nice power match
>but a leetle bit to slow. Vader was pretty stiff on DBS and DBS got in
>a nice flurry of shots to Vader towards the end. No Vadersault. Vader
>pins DBS after Race clips DBS (sort of). Vader beats on DBS after the
>match but then out comes CACTUS JACK who gives Vader a good tackle and
>the goes to check on DBS as the camera fades (***1/2).....

When it was 9:54 when they returned from commercials to start the match, I
knew it wouldn't be as good as it could have been. Still, if stiff power
wrestling is your thing, this was a solid match. Like I said I hoped it would
be, this was a "good" *** match. Not much more than that though...
especially since the return of Cactus Jack seemed so utterly meaningless as
it was scrunched into the closing 15 seconds of the show. This is another
case of "If you're not gonna do it right, don't bother doing it at all."
A couple minutes could have been taken from somewhere else in the show to
first let Vader and Smith do their thing for just a bit longer, and then to
let Jack's return take on a bit more importance.

I was really glad to see Hawk in... but obviously the deal that brought him
back in was one that will not cover (as was previously the plan) Fall Brawl
and the War Games match. And that's where Typhoon/Tugboat/Shock Master
comes into the picture. And what a pathetic picture that is.

WCW did manage to dodge a few bullets for this Clash, but it seemingly may
have shot itself right in the foot for Fall Brawl... not only because
of the idiotic choice of Tugboat to come in as a mega-face, but because
of the embarrassing way in which it was done.

Overall, this was a show which I wished I had taped and just watched on
Fast Forward... the TV Title match, and appearance of the Roadies, and the
WCW Title match were about all I would have slowed down for, though. In
retrospect, of course.

Later...
--
Rick Scaia | "It's O.K. to eat fish,
Your TV Friend | 'Cause they don't have any feelings."
ag...@freenet.carleton.ca | - Kurt Cobain
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robert McMullen

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Aug 19, 1993, 2:39:59 PM8/19/93
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Wow, Oliver! Just hand out those stars!!! ;-) Actually, I was going
to write my own post, but since Oliver's is so detailed I'll just add my
comments, ratings, and the bell-to-bell match times. Overall, I give
this show slight thumbs down.

In article <CBzK1...@freenet.carleton.ca>, Oliver Postlethwaite writes:
>ARN ANDERSON/PAUL ROMA vs. STEVE AUSTIN/STEVEN REGAL...Regal subbed for
>Pillman who came to the ring with crutches and a cast. A pretty good match
>and probably Regal's best in WCW. Anderson with a schoolboy on Austin.
>New champs (***1/2).....

TIME: 9:45. I gave it **. I agree that Regal stood out, but he's gotta
lose Bill Dundee (who couldn't even make it look like he was trying to
get out of Austin's way with the crutch). Arn won was pulling the tights,
BTW (for those who missed this extravaganza)--could we be seeing the first
hint at a turn down the road? Also, in the post-match interview, Tony was
trying to ask Arn a question, and Roma cut him off talking about how great
it was to finally be a champ...blah, blah...think Roma blew it or is this
the first hint of a new angle down the road?

On one hand it's good they just got this match over with at the start, but
on the other hand it just shows what we've been saying here all along about
how lame it was to tape so far into the future.

>BOBBY EATON vs. 2 COLD SCORPIO...Scorpio worked
>his ass of in this match BUT only about half of his moves connected.
>Threepio with the diss that don't miss (***).....

TIME: 5:27. I gave it **1/2, so we're actually close on this one. Too
many missed moves. No heat. Hard to tell the difference between this and
any other match the two have been in. Looked like WCWSN.

>MAXX PAYNE vs. JOHNNY
>B. BADD...Badd with the pin in about 3 minutes after Payne misses a
>splash. Badd leaves with Norma Jean. He'll unmask this weekend. Some
>nice stuff but way too short (**).....

TIME: 2:42. I gave this -**. It would have just been zero stars, but I
take one off for the time, and another for the finish. How come Maxx Payne
is the only wrestler in WCW who can't get up after he misses a splash?
What a stupid finish. Once again, I hate seeing Badd be put over Payne.
Now what's he gonna do with the guitar???

>FLAIR FOR THE GOLD...Guests are
>Sting and DBS. DBS almost strangles himself screaming at the audience.
>Out come Sid, Parker, and Harlem Heat. Then the faces introduce their
>partner for War Games in what has to be the most embarassing entrance
>in wrestling history. The SHOCK MASTER falls (as opposed to charges)
>through a wall in the set and his helmet falls off. He looked like
>Typhoon, but I dunno. He wore a silver glitter painted Stormtrooper
>helmet and had a canned interview ala Nailz. Jesse couldn't keep himself
>from laughing about this for awhile.....

At least the Shockmeister's head is circumsized...

God what a fucking waste of time...

If that's not bad enough...when did Harlem Heat finally start? I haven't
seen them yet on WCWSN or the Main Event (we only get one syndie here in
the Bay Area, and I never catch it). Did these guys start already on
the syndies? If not, it's just typical WCW to bring those guys out and
then do nothing with them.

>RICKY STEAMBOAT vs. PAUL ORNDORFF
>...Michael Buffer intros this match quite nicely. Another good match on
>the card. Steamboat seemed to really extend himself in this one. Ricky
>earns the victory with a small package. Paula piledrives Steamboat onto
>the belt after the match. Did you know that Orndorff has held the TV
>title since last November? ;-( New champ (***1/2).....

TIME: 8:31. I gave it ***1/2 as well. The finish was great, as was Jesse's
comment to the effect that (after the piledriver) Paul lost the title with
dignity...once again, Steamboat was awesome. His upcoming feud with Lord
Steven shows promise, although I'll bet when Regal wins the title it's not
via clean pin...

>THE COLOSSAL KONGS
>vs. RIC FLAIR/STING...Buffer again. A two minute squash by the faces
>would you believe? Sting works his ass off just clobbering the Kongs.
>Flair does well too and gets some awesome jabs in on Race. Sting with
>the Superfly splash from the top rope. Hot match but too short to give
>a legitimate rating to.....

TIME: 2:16. I give it *, for high energy, but that's it. Ric Flair never
tagged into the match, although he pounded on one Kong outside the ring the
whole time. It's sad, because Flair probably earned more $ in those two
minutes than I get in a week.

Regarding the shortness of the match, it was almost unforgiveable for WCW,
on a "special" card such as a Clash or PPV, to use its two top faces in
this fashion. And they pretty much ruined the Kongs for the future, since
the big guys were basically destroyed like jobbers. And again...only two
minutes, but we get a ~7 or 8 minute Flair for the Gold? Ack.

>THE EQUALIZER/RICK RUDE vs. DUSTIN RHODES/
>HAWK...I was worried after seeing the Shlock Master. ANIMAL actually
>appeared first, driving the Z28. Then Hawk sneaks Rude and EQ from behind
>and the match begins. Not too shabby a match but I'm surprised that the
>crowd wasn't as hot for the return of the LOD/Road Warriors (they were
>referred to as both). Dustin pins EQ after Hawk knocks DR onto EQ (???).
>***.....

TIME: 7:41. I gave it **. Hawk didn't look *that* great (although way
less roided than before he went to Japan; he and Sasaki shrunk during
their NJPW title reign, IMHO, and look TINY against Norton and Hercajerk
in the match where they lost the belts). Rhodes again was good, and Rude
was Rude. Equalizer...well, even my wife (who isn't too critical of
wrestling) said flat out, "This guy sucks!". He reminds me too much of
David Crosby and/or comedian Bruce "Babyman" Baum. Except either of them
could probably kick Equalizer's ass...or at least outmaneuver him.

Uh...the LOD coming back wasn't a surprise to hardcores or even marks
who pay attention to TV. Dustin insinuated who his partner was going to
be a week or two ago. I was actually pleasantly surprised to see both
LODs return, but let's see who STAYS. Hegstrand and Laurinitis didn't look
*that* thrilled to see each other.

Actually, visions of a great angle popped into my head during the intro,
when Rude said, "Dustin, we prepared for Animal" (or whatever). When
I saw Hawk coming in the other side of the ring, I thought ANGLE TIME!
How about Hawk attacks Animal and joins forces with Rude? Was it just me
who thought about this for a fleeting moment?

>DAVEY BOY SMITH vs. BIG VAN VADER...Buffer. A nice power match
>but a leetle bit to slow. Vader was pretty stiff on DBS and DBS got in

>pins DBS after Race clips DBS (sort of). Vader beats on DBS after the
>match but then out comes CACTUS JACK who gives Vader a good tackle and
>the goes to check on DBS as the camera fades (***1/2).....

TIME: 11:08. I gave it *. This match paled in comparison to their first
one at Slamboree, and wasn't even as good as the tag match at Beach Blast.
I was, however, relieved to see Vader kick out of a crucifix after being
pinned by it at the Blast...

Maybe it's just me, but I HATE ref bump finishes. First off, they telegraph
the end of the match (usually). Second, they telegraph the fact that the
guy who gets pinned when the ref is "out" will win the match when the ref
revives (again, usually).

Cactus coming back was cool, but it was one of those things where we knew
it was coming, so it was just a matter of when during the show (at first,
I thought the ShockMeister was CJ, but realized it was Typhoon, er Tugboat).
I also wish they left more time for the Vader/CJ brawl to get brutal.

AVERAGE MATCH RATING (mine): *1/2
AVERAGE MATCH TIME: 6:47
FACES WON/HEELS WON: 6/1 <============= Jeezus...
SCREW JOBS/REF BUMPS: 2
TITLE CHANGES: 2 (IMHO, one is tainted bigtime because the
real "champs" didn't defend...but lost)

Whatever...I feel pretty indifferent about the whole thing upon reflection.
It was WCW.

=============================>Robert McMullen<============================
>>>>The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of The ASK Group<<<<<
LIBERAL FASCISTS: People who believe they have a right to make fun of
moderates and conservatives, yet get totally bent out
of shape when someome pokes fun at them... ;-) ;-P
==========================>rob...@askinc.ask.com<=========================

Maurice Forrester

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Aug 19, 1993, 6:07:21 PM8/19/93
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I can't resist adding my own two cents on the Clash. I just wish
news would get fixed at Syracuse so I can use a decent editor....

Overall, I thought the show was so-so. I expected a disaster so
was pleasantly surprised.

Having Regal substitute for Pillman struck me as a good move that was
poorly executed. Why didn't they have one of those mysterious WCW
officials make an announcement that the Blondes had to defend the
belts? If they did that at the beginning of the show and had the
match occur second or third, they could have built some suspense
over who would wrestle in Pillman's place.

I was pleased that the Kongs were squashed. I was displaced that
WCW still hasn't figured out how to use Maxx Payne. I also hoped for
just a moment that Hawk was going to be on Rude's team. I wish we
could declare a moratorium on ref bumps.

The TugMachine or whatever he's called is Ole Anderson at the height
of his creative powers. Unfortunately.

maurice

--
-- Maurice Forrester
-- mjfo...@syr.edu

Elliott Wong

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Aug 20, 1993, 12:26:55 AM8/20/93
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rob...@askinc.ask.COM (Robert McMullen) writes:

>be a week or two ago. I was actually pleasantly surprised to see both
>LODs return, but let's see who STAYS. Hegstrand and Laurinitis didn't look
>*that* thrilled to see each other.

One of my friends told me that Animal hurt his arm/shoulder
thus their breakup and move out of WWF. I guess there was some bad
blood between the two? Are there details?


Elliott

Rick Scaia

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Aug 20, 1993, 12:20:47 AM8/20/93
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In a previous article, rob...@askinc.ask.COM (Robert McMullen) says:

>Actually, visions of a great angle popped into my head during the intro,
>when Rude said, "Dustin, we prepared for Animal" (or whatever). When
>I saw Hawk coming in the other side of the ring, I thought ANGLE TIME!
>How about Hawk attacks Animal and joins forces with Rude? Was it just me
>who thought about this for a fleeting moment?

Not just you... I thought exactly the same thing. It was partly surprise
at seeing both Roadies, but mostly the way Rude said he was prepared for
Animal. Then I remembered that this was WCW, and that something of that
complexity was far beyond them.

>Maybe it's just me, but I HATE ref bump finishes. First off, they telegraph
>the end of the match (usually). Second, they telegraph the fact that the
>guy who gets pinned when the ref is "out" will win the match when the ref
>revives (again, usually).

The main reason this bugged me was not that it was a typical bogus ref
bump finish... it was the fact that it looked to me like the ref (was it
Randy Anderson? I forget) took the all time worst bump I've ever seen.
I'm not sure he even got hit, much less hit hard enough to get knocked
out for any length of time. Dave/Earl Hebner is the all time ref bump
king.

Herb Kunze

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Aug 20, 1993, 8:30:38 AM8/20/93
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In article <CC1Iq...@freenet.carleton.ca>, ag...@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rick Scaia) writes:
> In a previous article, rob...@askinc.ask.COM (Robert McMullen) says:
> >Actually, visions of a great angle popped into my head during the intro,
> >when Rude said, "Dustin, we prepared for Animal" (or whatever). When
> >I saw Hawk coming in the other side of the ring, I thought ANGLE TIME!
> >How about Hawk attacks Animal and joins forces with Rude? Was it just me
> >who thought about this for a fleeting moment?
>
> Not just you... I thought exactly the same thing. It was partly surprise
> at seeing both Roadies, but mostly the way Rude said he was prepared for
> Animal. Then I remembered that this was WCW, and that something of that
> complexity was far beyond them.

Don't ask for the world or anything. As far as the "mystery partner"
angle goes, WCW outdid what everybody on the net expected by getting
both Hawk and Animal to show for the Clash. Most people were expecting
neither to be there and some were holding out hope that they'd strike
a deal with Hawk, but both? Now, you guys want them both to appear
and run an angle where they turn on each other after how many years
(mostly) together? That's not too demanding.

> >Maybe it's just me, but I HATE ref bump finishes. First off, they telegraph
> >the end of the match (usually). Second, they telegraph the fact that the
> >guy who gets pinned when the ref is "out" will win the match when the ref
> >revives (again, usually).
>
> The main reason this bugged me was not that it was a typical bogus ref
> bump finish... it was the fact that it looked to me like the ref (was it
> Randy Anderson? I forget) took the all time worst bump I've ever seen.
> I'm not sure he even got hit, much less hit hard enough to get knocked
> out for any length of time. Dave/Earl Hebner is the all time ref bump
> king.

The all time ref bump king would have to be Tommy Young.

I thought that Peewee was hit by a flailing arm, but I could be wrong.
They'd surprised us earlier in the night in the Steamboat vs. Orndorff
match. I expected Steamboat to schoolboy Orndorff while Paul was
collecting his belt after what he thought was a win. That didn't
happen. Then, they pointed out that the belt was in the ring and
I figured that Steamboat would win with some sort of screwy ending.
Instead, he won clean. I thought they teased the other finishes
very well and I expected those finishes. So, when Vader vs. Smith
rolled around, I wasn't sure that the formulaic screw job would be
the finish (of course, looking at the clock, it had to be).

In the Japanese promotions, everybody's finisher is over because
they often win with the move against top stars. In the really hot
matches, though, they often have a surprise kick-out or escape
from the finishing move which leaves the crowd wondering what
the finish will be. From the kick-out/escape on, the crowd can
be very hot because they believe that any move can end the match
after that. Inevitably, the guys pick up the pace and do lots
of hot spots for the rest of the match, leaving the crowd out of
breath. We rarely see this over here, especially the part where
the guys pick up the pace for the last half of the match.
Herb...

Herb Kunze

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Aug 20, 1993, 9:03:37 AM8/20/93
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In article <CBznL...@freenet.carleton.ca> ag...@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rick Scaia) writes:
>In a previous article, ab...@Freenet.carleton.ca (Oliver Postlethwaite) says:
>>RICKY STEAMBOAT vs. PAUL ORNDORFF
>The best match of the night, IMO... and I knew who was gonna win. That's
>not a great commentary on the rest of the show, now is it??

I don't understand this second sentence. Usually saying "That's not a
great commentary on the rest of the show..." means that you've just
pointed out something terrible. Why is Steamboat vs. Orndorff being
***1/2 such a terrible thing? Oh right, I forgot, you knew who was
gonna win <gasp>.

Re: Sting & Flair vs. Kongs

>Sure it was a hot little
>match, but really, was there any question?

I was sort of happy to see the Kongs be jobbers. That's the way it
should be: guys with ability beat guys with lesser (or no) ability,
regardless of size or stature. Now, if only Sid and the Equalizer
would become jobbers, I'd rest easier. And if Eaton & Benoit were
pushed, I'd be happy.

Big Sky is a glorified jobber. So was Vinnie Vegas. Vinnie jumped
to the WWF and is now looking at a run against Curt Hennig, one of
the top faces in the company -- and the run could conceivably be
for the IC Title. Yikes. And don't get me started on Lex Luger,
Yokozuna, Ludvig Borga, Undertaker, etc.


>>THE EQUALIZER/RICK RUDE vs. DUSTIN RHODES/

>WCW dodged the biggest bullet by actually getting not only one, but both
>Road Warriors to appear. Some one should tell Animal that leading the
>crowd in chanting "LOD... LOD" isn't a good idea now that they're back in
>WCW.

Chanting "LOD" might not be bad because it reminds fans that these
guys were in the WWF and are now in WCW (for this one shot anyhow).
It's sort of a jab at the WWF. On a similar note, why do you think
Sting slammed both Kongs with little effort?

>>DAVEY BOY SMITH vs. BIG VAN VADER...Buffer. A nice power match

>especially since the return of Cactus Jack seemed so utterly meaningless as
>it was scrunched into the closing 15 seconds of the show. This is another
>case of "If you're not gonna do it right, don't bother doing it at all."
>A couple minutes could have been taken from somewhere else in the show to
>first let Vader and Smith do their thing for just a bit longer, and then to
>let Jack's return take on a bit more importance.

I suppose this is true. Still, I think they wanted Jack's reappearance
to be mysterious and unexplained so that people will tune in to the
TV shows to find out details. If that's the case, they don't need
to have the Jack vs. Vader brawl last more than a few seconds.
Why should they give away everything on something that's free?


>WCW did manage to dodge a few bullets for this Clash, but it seemingly may
>have shot itself right in the foot for Fall Brawl... not only because
>of the idiotic choice of Tugboat to come in as a mega-face, but because
>of the embarrassing way in which it was done.

One wrestler in one match is going to kill the PPV, right? Even when
that match is a War Games match where that guy might not enter the
ring until the match has been on for many minutes? Even when the
nature of the match has always meant that it gets a very high rating?
I think Sid's one and only ***** match (and maybe his only ****+
match) was his War Games match. I'm hoping that the plans with Hawk
ended at Fall Brawl and Shockmaster will only be in the one match
and then be history. It's not like he's in a singles match against
Sid, heaven forbid.

That PPV will also have Flair vs. Rude, Cactus vs. Kwan, and who
knows what else (Nasties vs. Horsemen?), so "shot in the foot"
seems extreme. Maybe "stubbed its toe?"

Herb...

Mark Carlton

unread,
Aug 20, 1993, 3:55:11 PM8/20/93
to
at...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Maurice Forrester) writes:

>The TugMachine or whatever he's called is Ole Anderson at the height
>of his creative powers. Unfortunately.

Speaking of TugMachine, this guy has had more gimmicks that Vince
has perversions, ones I that I've herd of include:

Name Promotion Promoter
--------- ------------ -----------
Big Bubba Pro Wrestling USA Fred Barry(?)
Hercules Hernandez Oregon Wrestling Fed Billy Jack Haynes
Big Man Steel Florida Virgil Runnels
TugBoat WWF Vinnie the Slimeball
Typhone WWF Vinnie the Slimeball
ShockMaster WCW Alan "the idiot" Roguski

My memory is a little fuzzy on some of these. Anybody know of some others?

Mark


rdu...@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu

unread,
Aug 20, 1993, 7:53:02 PM8/20/93
to
In article <253a7g$a...@ornews.intel.com>, car...@ornews.intel.com (Mark Carlton) writes:

> Speaking of TugMachine, this guy has had more gimmicks that Vince
> has perversions, ones I that I've herd of include:
>
> Name Promotion Promoter
> --------- ------------ -----------
> Big Bubba Pro Wrestling USA Fred Barry(?)
> Hercules Hernandez Oregon Wrestling Fed Billy Jack Haynes
> Big Man Steel Florida Virgil Runnels
> TugBoat WWF Vinnie the Slimeball
> Typhone WWF Vinnie the Slimeball
> ShockMaster WCW Alan "the idiot" Roguski
>
> My memory is a little fuzzy on some of these. Anybody know of some others?

Hercules Hernandez? I don't think the Trip-meister was Hercules Herandez,
since the Hercules (Hernandez) I know wrestled in WCCW and the WWF.

i don't know about Big Bubba, as the only Big Bubba I knew was the Big Boss
Man when he was the bodyguard for Jim Cornette.

Ray Duffy

Michael Bornhorst

unread,
Aug 21, 1993, 12:00:26 AM8/21/93
to
I
>Speaking of TugMachine, this guy has had more gimmicks that Vince
>has perversions, ones I that I've herd of include:
>
> Name Promotion Promoter
> --------- ------------ -----------
> Big Bubba Pro Wrestling USA Fred Barry(?)
> Hercules Hernandez Oregon Wrestling Fed Billy Jack Haynes
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When did the Tugster go by "Hercules". And didn't the Other Hercules
wrestle Billy Jack in a prelim match at WMIII? Wouldn't McMahon keep
another promotion from promoting a wrestler who had the same name as one of
his boys?

What-cha-gonna-do when Tug-a-mania runs wild on you!
Michael
rsa...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu

Duane Morin

unread,
Aug 20, 1993, 8:41:27 PM8/20/93
to
In article <CC0ru...@askinc.ask.COM> rob...@askinc.ask.COM (Robert McMullen) writes:
>If that's not bad enough...when did Harlem Heat finally start?

Good question. Took me awhile to figure out who they were.

> >THE COLOSSAL KONGS
> >vs. RIC FLAIR/STING...Buffer again. A two minute squash by the faces
>

>TIME: 2:16. I give it *, for high energy, but that's it. Ric Flair never
>tagged into the match, although he pounded on one Kong outside the ring the
>whole time. It's sad, because Flair probably earned more $ in those two
>minutes than I get in a week.

Well, figure that this match had two purposes: Hype Sting's shot at the
belt (on a regular Saturday night, no less!) and to help add focus to the
fact that Cactus Jack is going to have to go through Yoshi Kwan instead of
one of the Kongs to get to Vader.

>Regarding the shortness of the match, it was almost unforgiveable for WCW,
>on a "special" card such as a Clash or PPV, to use its two top faces in
>this fashion. And they pretty much ruined the Kongs for the future, since
>the big guys were basically destroyed like jobbers. And again...only two
>minutes, but we get a ~7 or 8 minute Flair for the Gold? Ack.

Yeah, well. Apparently there are enough big men in the WCW now, and maybe
people will be more interested in somebody like Yoshi Kwan?

>Actually, visions of a great angle popped into my head during the intro,
>when Rude said, "Dustin, we prepared for Animal" (or whatever). When
>I saw Hawk coming in the other side of the ring, I thought ANGLE TIME!
>How about Hawk attacks Animal and joins forces with Rude? Was it just me
>who thought about this for a fleeting moment?

I hoped for this as well. Ah, well. We need more heels to cheer for.
Faces are boring.

>Cactus coming back was cool, but it was one of those things where we knew
>it was coming, so it was just a matter of when during the show (at first,
>I thought the ShockMeister was CJ, but realized it was Typhoon, er Tugboat).
>I also wish they left more time for the Vader/CJ brawl to get brutal.

It wasn't a terribly great comeback, though. He basically showed up for
about a minute before fading off. Big deal. Vader got away from him too
fast. I liked the suggestion someone made that CJ should have come back
with Mr. Shovel.

(And last time we saw CJ, hadn't he shaved off his beard, and eyebrows? :-) )

>Whatever...I feel pretty indifferent about the whole thing upon reflection.
>It was WCW.

I had a great time watching it for the fun.

ddm

>=============================>Robert McMullen<============================

>==========================>rob...@askinc.ask.com<=========================

dsch...@news.delphi.com

unread,
Aug 21, 1993, 12:02:04 PM8/21/93
to
hek...@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Herb Kunze) writes:

> I don't understand this second sentence. Usually saying "That's not a
> great commentary on the rest of the show..." means that you've just
> pointed out something terrible. Why is Steamboat vs. Orndorff being
> ***1/2 such a terrible thing? Oh right, I forgot, you knew who was


Boy, didn't we kick the last bit of life out of this dead horse yet?

And in this case, I agree with Oliver. Knowing that the tag belts were
changing and that Steamboat was getting the TV belt did take an edge off
of the matches for me. I know that your main concern with a match is how
good the workrate is Herb, and it is the primary element to me too, but
not knowing who is going to win, at least for sure, also adds excitement
for a lot of people, myself included. For example, on the rare occasions
that Meltzer reviews Japanese TV shows before I watch them, I never read
his summaries until I have seen the show.

Hell, it's fun to be able and mark out, at least it is for me.

> I was sort of happy to see the Kongs be jobbers. That's the way it
> should be: guys with ability beat guys with lesser (or no) ability,

I agree here. The Dongs really suck.

> One wrestler in one match is going to kill the PPV, right? Even when

No, but 4 wrestlers in one match just might. Harlem heat, Squid, and
Slugboat are so bad they just might ruin a previously unruinable match.

> That PPV will also have Flair vs. Rude, Cactus vs. Kwan, and who
> knows what else (Nasties vs. Horsemen?), so "shot in the foot"
> seems extreme. Maybe "stubbed its toe?"

It could be OK, but we all know what the buyrate will, or won't, be.

I hope that Rude, for once, turns it up in a big show. He has really
gotten stale lately, IMO. And I see serious sign of age in Flair.

Hopefully, his bout with Sting tonight will show me something.

Brandon S Coley

unread,
Aug 21, 1993, 1:44:01 AM8/21/93
to
In article <CC26y...@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> hek...@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Herb Kunze) writes:

>
> Herb...

You know what really amazes me about Herb? He thinks he's right.

:)

-Bolt-

PS: No offense Herb. Your just infuriating to someone who disgrees with
you. (And I would take that as a compliment) However, there is
no defending this latest clash.

QUESTION: Since The Shockmaster is a Stormtrooper, does that mean Vader is
his commander? (If this has been mentioned, I apologize)

Brandon S Coley

unread,
Aug 21, 1993, 1:49:01 AM8/21/93
to
In article <CC1Iq...@freenet.carleton.ca> ag...@Freenet.carleton.ca (Rick Scaia) writes:
>
>In a previous article, rob...@askinc.ask.COM (Robert McMullen) says:
>
>>Actually, visions of a great angle popped into my head during the intro,
>>when Rude said, "Dustin, we prepared for Animal" (or whatever). When
>>I saw Hawk coming in the other side of the ring, I thought ANGLE TIME!
>>How about Hawk attacks Animal and joins forces with Rude? Was it just me
>>who thought about this for a fleeting moment?
>
>Not just you... I thought exactly the same thing. It was partly surprise
>at seeing both Roadies, but mostly the way Rude said he was prepared for
>Animal. Then I remembered that this was WCW, and that something of that
>complexity was far beyond them.
>
You can add me to the list of people who thought the same thing. In fact,
I was rather excited about it. I would much rather see Hawk and Animal feud
with each other. Especially considering that it takes a team of considerably
less talent to dominate the WCW tag scene. (And coming from someone who does
not paticularly like the LOD, that means allot (Shit - I'm going to have to
get used to calling them The Road Warriors again))

-Bolt-

A M Jenkins

unread,
Aug 23, 1993, 4:54:31 AM8/23/93
to
[snip]

> One wrestler in one match is going to kill the PPV, right? Even when
> that match is a War Games match where that guy might not enter the
> ring until the match has been on for many minutes? Even when the
> nature of the match has always meant that it gets a very high rating?
> I think Sid's one and only ***** match (and maybe his only ****+
> match) was his War Games match. I'm hoping that the plans with Hawk
> ended at Fall Brawl and Shockmaster will only be in the one match
> and then be history. It's not like he's in a singles match against
> Sid, heaven forbid.

Could someone explain what a War Games match is, please? Some WCW tapes
have just appeared over here and I've seen 'em mentioned...

Thanks,
Tony


--
Tony Jenkins, Email: to...@scs.leeds.ac.uk
School of Computer Studies, csc...@gps.leeds.ac.uk
University of Leeds, UK. Voice: +44 (532) 335442

Mark Carlton

unread,
Aug 23, 1993, 3:14:41 PM8/23/93
to
rsa...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Michael Bornhorst) writes:

>I
>>Speaking of TugMachine, this guy has had more gimmicks that Vince
>>has perversions, ones I that I've herd of include:
>>
>> Name Promotion Promoter
>> --------- ------------ -----------
>> Big Bubba Pro Wrestling USA Fred Barry(?)
>> Hercules Hernandez Oregon Wrestling Fed Billy Jack Haynes
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>When did the Tugster go by "Hercules". And didn't the Other Hercules
>wrestle Billy Jack in a prelim match at WMIII? Wouldn't McMahon keep
>another promotion from promoting a wrestler who had the same name as one of
>his boys?

Billy Jack Haynes quit the WWF and started his own promotion the Oregon
Wrestling Federation.

This was a short lived Oregon promotion about 5 or 6 years ago that lasted
for about 3 or 4 months before going belly up. Billy Jack Haynes was the
promoter/booker and his wrestlers included Kevin Kelly(aka Nails), Ray Candy,
Rip Oliver, Mike Miller, Brian Adams(aka Crush), Johnny Ace, Tiger Chung Lee,
JT Southern and I believe our buddy Typhoon/Tugboat/Shockmaster.

I watched Big Bubba on USA network about 10 years ago. At the time he
was fueding with Bam Bam Bigelow. I believe the promoter was Fred Barry
but I'm not sure.

Mark

Elliott Wong

unread,
Aug 24, 1993, 5:11:13 PM8/24/93
to
>Could someone explain what a War Games match is, please? Some WCW tapes
>have just appeared over here and I've seen 'em mentioned...

Sorry to do this, but I can't resist...


"Ten men. Two rings. Wrapped in Steel! Let the War Games Begin!" (That
was a really good commercial. When was it? '88?)

Anyway, it's a glorified cage match, with the two teams coming
in one wrestler at a time so that one team (the one who won the coin
toss, usually the heels) has a two on one, or three on two advantage.
The first two guys go at it for 5 min, then every 2 min, another
wrestler gets into the ring. When all 8 or 10 men are in the rings,
then they go to what's called "The Match Beyond" where the only way to
win is to get the opponent to submit or surrender.

There have been some pretty good brawls in these matches. I
was able to pick up an old NWA video at Blockbuster and saw a Wargames
match that involved the Lex Luger incarnation of the 4 Horsemen. On the
other side were Dusty, Nikita Koloff, and I think the Road Warriors.


Elliott

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