Usenet Year-End Achievement Awards - Results 3/3

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Herb Kunze

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Dec 13, 1993, 1:08:17 PM12/13/93
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This is the third of three posts of the awards restuls.

Best Promotional Move
---------------------

Award Description:
To be given to the best move made by a promotion this past year. This
could include giving somebody a push, demoting someone, firing someone,
hiring someone, or anything of a promotional nature.

Previous Winners:
1990: N/A
1991: WWF signs Ric Flair
1992: WCW signs Jake Roberts

This Year's Winner: WWF works with SMW & USWA

Participation Statistics:
Total 1st Place Voters = 63 (= 315 points)
Total 2nd Place Voters = 59 (= 177 points)
Total 3rd Place Voters = 55 (= 55 points)

Detailed Results:

1st 2nd 3rd Score

20 12 10 146 WWF works with SMW & USWA
11 6 7 80 WWF creates "Monday Night RAW"
6 6 2 50 WCW signs Ric Flair
4 4 8 40 WWF pushes 1-2-3 Kid Sean Waltman
4 5 4 39 WCW abandons amnesia storyline and just brings
Cactus Jack back
3 2 7 28 WWF hires Jim Ross away from WCW
3 3 2 26 All Japan has Toshiaki Kawada switch sides
3 1 1 19 WCW had both Road Warriors appear at CoC on 08/18/93
1 2 1 12 WWF improves wrestling content of matches
0 3 1 10 WWF gives title to Yokozuna from Hulk Hogan
1 1 0 8 WCW signs Big Van Vader
1 1 0 8 AJW Tag Titles are won by a team from another promotion
1 0 0 5 WWF books Jerry Lawler vs. Bret Hart feud
1 0 0 5 WCW uses Michael Buffer as special ring announcer
1 0 0 5 WWF signs Lex Luger
1 0 0 5 WWF signs Ludvig Borga
0 1 2 5 WWF creates "Radio WWF" and lets it talk freely
1 0 0 5 UWFi has North American PPV
1 0 0 5 AAA making Art Barr a heel
0 1 1 4 WCW creates the Hollywood Blonds: Brian Pillman
& Steve Austin
0 1 1 4 GWF gets picked up by ESPN2
0 1 1 4 WCW signs Gene Okerlund
0 1 0 3 WCW works with SMW
0 1 0 3 NJ & WAR alliance
0 1 0 3 WWF brings back Curt Hennig for Survivor Series 1992
0 1 0 3 WCW tapes 13 weeks of TV at one time in Orlando, Fla.
0 1 0 3 WWF turns Doink babyface
0 1 0 3 AJW works with JWP, LLPW, FMW women
0 1 0 3 WCW makes Big Van Vader champion
0 1 0 3 WWF books Luna Vachon vs. Sherri Martel cat-fights
0 1 0 3 WWF brings in Jerry Lawler as a commentator
0 0 2 2 WCW fires Sid Vicious
0 0 2 2 WWF doesn't give Lex Luger the WWF title
0 0 1 1 WWF has the Undertaker beat Gonzalez
0 0 1 1 WWF reduces steroid abuse
0 0 1 1 ECW features Sabu

The best promotional move was All Japan having Toshiaki Kawada switch
sides. It created many new possibilities and has renewed interest in
the promotion. The second best move was All Japan Women having the
JWP team win the AJW Tag Titles. It added incredibly to the feud
between the two promotions. Third place was WCW abandoning the search
for Cactus Jack sketches and just bringing Jack back for a brutal match
at Halloween Havoc.

Worst Manager of The Year
-------------------------

Award Description:
To be given to the manager whose presence at ringside and during
interviews is really unnecessary. This person does little to enhance
the matches in which his/her wrestler(s) participates.

Previous Winners:
1990: Mr. Fuji
1991: Coach John Tolos
1992: Harvey Wippleman

This Year's Winner: Harvey Wippleman

Participation Statistics:
Total 1st Place Voters = 65 (= 325 points)
Total 2nd Place Voters = 58 (= 174 points)
Total 3rd Place Voters = 52 (= 52 points)

Detailed Results:

1st 2nd 3rd Score

17 11 4 122 Harvey Wippleman
15 7 5 101 Mr. Fuji
5 9 7 59 Colonel Robert Parker
8 3 5 54 Jimmy Hart
6 3 6 45 Thunderbolt Patterson
2 8 5 39 Afa
1 5 5 25 Harley Race
3 2 2 23 Missy Hyatt
3 1 0 18 Slick
0 4 4 16 Johnny Polo
0 3 1 10 Teddy Long
1 1 2 10 Oscar
2 0 0 10 Baboose
1 0 0 5 Ed Deadly
1 0 0 5 Paul Bearer
0 0 3 3 Sir William Dundee
0 1 0 3 Sebastian
0 0 1 1 Hunter Q. Robbins
0 0 1 1 Ron Wright
0 0 1 1 Sherri Martel

Practically everbody stinks. The worst is Mr. Fuji, who by himself would
never have been able to make things with Yokozuna interesting. Second
goes to Harvey Wippleman, who is also just terrible. Third place goes to
Thunderbolt Patterson, who just annoys the hell out of me.

B.J.HUGHES: I can't believe Oscar wasn't nominated!

Worst Announcer
---------------

Award Description:
To be given to the commentator/announcer who makes the dumbest comments
while pushing his product. This person probably gets you to turn down
the TV when he/she is announcing. As of 1992, the difference
between this and colour commentator will be enforced.

Previous Winners:
1990: Vince McMahon
1991: Vince McMahon
1992: Vince McMahon

This Year's Winner: Vince McMahon

Participation Statistics:
Total 1st Place Voters = 62 (= 310 points)
Total 2nd Place Voters = 45 (= 135 points)
Total 3rd Place Voters = 42 (= 42 points)

Detailed Results:

1st 2nd 3rd Score

25 7 5 151 Vince McMahon
17 14 7 134 Eric Bischoff
6 5 13 58 Sean Mooney
3 10 2 47 Gorilla Monsoon
3 2 4 25 Tony Schiavone
2 1 1 14 Todd Pettengill
1 2 1 12 Jim Ross
1 1 1 9 Gordon Solie
1 0 1 6 Jim Dougherty (UWFi)
0 2 0 6 Chris Cady (NWA/WWA)
1 0 1 6 Gene Okerlund
1 0 0 5 Doyle King
1 0 0 5 Jay Sulli
0 1 0 3 Joe Fowler
0 0 2 2 any GWF announcer
0 0 1 1 Chris Cruise
0 0 1 1 Cory Macklin
0 0 1 1 Masa Saito (NJ)
0 0 1 1 Terry Taylor

The worst announcer based on irritation is Vince McMahon. He's great at
getting his storylines over and making his product understandable, but he
sucks when it comes to calling match. I can only hear so many "Oh my!"
or "Did you see that?" or "What a maneuver!" exclamations before it gets
real old. Second worst is Gorilla Monsoon. Why does he have to pretend
he's a doctor with all kinds of knowledge of anatomy? Third worst,
practically just for his performance on the Japan SuperShow, is easily
Eric Bischoff. He called moves wrong and called wrestlers by the wrong
name. What a professional.

JOE WRIGHT: I also despise Gordon Solile, and I don't understand his
popularity. The word is su-PLEX!!! with an EX!! Learn it Gordon.

Worst Colour Commentator
------------------------

Award Description:
To be given to the colour commentator who provides the dumbest comments.
You may even turn the sound off when this person is talking.

Previous Winners:
1990: N/A
1991: Dusty Rhodes
1992: Lord Alfred Hayes

This Year's Winner: Randy Savage

Participation Statistics:
Total 1st Place Voters = 58 (= 290 points)
Total 2nd Place Voters = 43 (= 129 points)
Total 3rd Place Voters = 34 (= 34 points)

Detailed Results:

1st 2nd 3rd Score

24 7 5 146 Randy Savage
16 9 10 117 Alfred Hayes
2 9 2 39 Jerry Lawler
4 4 4 36 Bobby Heenan
3 4 1 28 Larry Zbyszko
2 2 2 18 Gorilla Monsoon
1 2 2 13 Mike Davis
2 0 0 10 The Wizard
1 1 0 8 Rob Bartlett
0 2 0 6 Terry Taylor
1 0 1 6 Teddy Long
1 0 0 5 Cactus Jack
0 1 2 5 Cory Macklin
1 0 0 5 Carsten Schaeffer (German WWF-Commentator)
0 1 0 3 Guenther Zapf (German WWF-Co-Commentator)
0 1 0 3 Joe Fowler
0 0 1 1 The other guy who did the NWA/WWA show (with Chris Cady)
0 0 1 1 Todd Pettengill
0 0 1 1 Jesse Ventura
0 0 1 1 Reno Riggins
0 0 1 1 Todd Pettengill

The worst colour commentator is easily Randy Savage. All he does is
interject a few "The WWF! Oh yeah!" exclamations into the dialogue,
like he feels that he should say *something* but has no idea what to say.
Second worst is Jerry Lawler, who just makes jokes and throws insults to
get himself over as a heel. He adds absolutely nothing to the calling
of a match. But he's entertaining and makes you forget that his product
stinks in general. Speaking of which, third goes to Bobby Heenan for
similar reasons.

Worst Interviewee
-----------------

Award Description:
To be given to the person who gives the worst interview in the biz.
This could be a wrestler or a manager.

Previous Winners:
1990: Ultimate Warrior
1991: El Gigante
1992: Ultimate Warrior

This Year's Winner: Giant Gonzalez

Participation Statistics:
Total 1st Place Voters = 64 (= 320 points)
Total 2nd Place Voters = 60 (= 180 points)
Total 3rd Place Voters = 58 (= 58 points)

Detailed Results:

1st 2nd 3rd Score

10 6 6 74 Giant Gonzalez
9 6 9 72 Yokozuna with Mr. Fuji
3 8 4 43 Erik Watts
4 6 4 42 1-2-3 Kid
5 4 5 42 Tatanka
6 2 4 40 Bob Backlund
4 5 3 38 Kamala
3 3 1 25 Ice Train with Thunderbolt Patterson
2 3 4 23 Equalizer
3 2 2 23 The Steiners
3 1 2 20 Dustin Rhodes
1 2 1 12 Ultimate Warrior
1 2 0 11 Doink
2 0 0 10 The Undertaker with Paul Bearer
0 3 1 10 Paul Roma
1 1 0 8 Barry Windham
1 0 1 6 Bret Hart
1 0 0 5 Randy Savage
1 0 0 5 Ric Flair's A Flair for the Gold
1 0 0 5 Sid Vicious
1 0 0 5 The Smoking Gunns
1 0 0 5 Owen Hart
1 0 0 5 Crush
0 1 1 4 The Colossal Kongs: Awesome Kong & King Kong
0 1 1 4 Diesel
0 1 0 3 Hulk Hogan
0 1 0 3 Adam Bomb
0 1 0 3 Bastion Booger
0 1 0 3 The Bushwhackers
0 0 2 2 Lex Luger
0 0 2 2 Shockmaster
0 0 1 1 Davey Boy Smith
0 0 1 1 Missy Hyatt
0 0 1 1 Mike Davis
0 0 1 1 The Quebecers: Jacques Rougeau & Pierre Oullette
with Johnny Polo
0 0 1 1 Harley Race

The worst interviewee is Giant Gonzalez. He actually got worse when he
returned from Argentina. Second goes to Ice Train with Thunderbolt
Patterson. Ice Train, if he dropped the "Choo! Choo!" stuff might not
be so intolerable an interviewee, but throw TBolt in there and it becomes
unbearable. Third place goes to Erik Watts. Why is this guy where he is?

ROBERT McMULLEN: I chose Scott Steiner, 1-2-3 and Missy, and all three
of these picks could be transposed in any order. Scott flat-out sucks
at interviews (and always has); Waltman has done some of the worst I've
ever seen during his short tenure in the WWhiFf, although I'm sure his
"gimmick" of being a nice kid holds him back (we'll never see a bird
and a 'Fuck you!' on RAW ;-) ); Missy - oh, God.

Worst Angle of The Year
-----------------------

Award Description:
To be given to the worst angle you've seen in the sport this year.
It may be the worst because of taste or because of execution.

Previous Winners:
1990: Earthquake breaks Hulk's ribs & get well card drive
/ Black Scorpion (tie)
1991: WWF exploits the Gulf war
1992: Papa Shango curses the Ultimate Warrior

This Year's Winner: WCW's Cactus Jack gets amnesia; search leads to Cleveland

Participation Statistics:
Total 1st Place Voters = 64 (= 320 points)
Total 2nd Place Voters = 60 (= 180 points)
Total 3rd Place Voters = 56 (= 56 points)

Detailed Results:

1st 2nd 3rd Score

22 8 3 137 WCW's Cactus Jack gets amnesia;search leads to Cleveland
10 9 6 83 The Lex Luger Express gets called to action in the WWF
6 9 7 64 Shockmaster's stumbling debut as team Sting's
Wargames partner
7 1 7 45 Jimmy Hart becomes a Hulkamaniac
3 7 6 42 Masters of the Powerbomb (Sid Vicious & Big Van Vader)
mini-movie
3 2 6 27 Multiple Doinks
4 1 3 26 Masked Assassin vs. Dusty Rhodes gets rekindled
1 5 5 25 WWF books USA vs. the world
0 5 0 15 Wrestlers being faces in the WWF (USWA) and heels
in the USWA (WWF)
2 1 1 14 The Undertaker vs. Mr. Hughes urn-stealing
1 1 2 10 Hulk Hogan vs. Yokozuna, 04/04/93, becomes official
because of "oral contract"
0 2 1 7 The Four Horesmen re-form
1 0 0 5 WWF brings back Hulk Hogan
1 0 0 5 The Road Warriors appear together in WCW but don't
work as a team
1 0 0 5 Maxx Payne steals Johnny B. Badd's Badd-blaster
1 0 0 5 Colossal Kongs vs. Sting & Ric Flair
1 0 0 5 Bret Hart vs. Jerry Lawler & Doink at Summerslam
0 1 0 3 The exploding camera in Hulk Hogan vs. Yokozuna, WM IX
0 1 0 3 Bret Hart permits Hulk Hogan to face Yokozuna, WM IX
0 1 0 3 The Undertaker vs. Giant Gonzalez
0 1 0 3 WCW's Beach Blast mini-movie
0 1 0 3 Anything with Doink
0 1 0 3 WCW arm-wrestling tournament
0 1 0 3 The Cole Twins win matches
0 1 0 3 Lex Luger slams Yokozuna
0 1 0 3 Crush turns heel
0 0 2 2 Maniac Mike Davis turns face, befriends Brandon Baxter
0 0 1 1 Maxx Payne blasts Johnny B. Badd
0 0 1 1 Shawn Michaels brings in Diesel as his bodyguard
0 0 1 1 WWF brings in Jeff Jarrett as Double-J
(that's J,e,double f;J,a,double r,e,double t)
0 0 1 1 Tatanka, the undefeated Native American
0 0 1 1 Marty Janetty wins IC Title as Shawn Michaels'
mystery opponent
0 0 1 1 Vince McMahon trying to work the press with lies
about steroids
0 0 1 1 Crush as a babyface

The dumbest angle this year was the WWF creating multiple Doinks. Is it any
wonder that people raise an eyebrow if I tell them I'm a wrestling fan?
Turning Lex Luger into an American hero and sending out the Lex Express was
also pretty silly. The Lex Express gave some pretty good select footage
of Lex kissing babies, etc., but didn't work at all. Nobody cared after
all of his hard work earned him a title shot. Cactus Jack's amnesia made
the most realistic angle of the year into another wrestling work and gets
third.

JOE WRIGHT: As you can see, the ultranationalistic, and even seminationalistic
shit irritates the hell out of me. Particularly Duggan, but also Luger in the
old Hogan (I only do house shows and PPV's no syndies) role and the use of
Yokozuna and Borga. I guess it sells though.

OTTO HEUER: Geez it's hard to put Yoko vs USA as #4, but three baaad angles
beat it out for my votes!

Worst Organization
------------------

Award Description:
To be given to the organization/promotion that has the worst product.
This is the organization whose TV and house shows you wouldn't
even think of attending. Probably not even as a freebie.

Previous Winners:
1990: WWF / AWA (tie)
1991: WCW
1992: WWF

This Year's Winner: WCW

Participation Statistics:
Total 1st Place Voters = 60 (= 300 points)
Total 2nd Place Voters = 46 (= 138 points)
Total 3rd Place Voters = 34 (= 34 points)

Detailed Results:

1st 2nd 3rd Score

24 12 2 158 WCW
16 9 6 113 WWF
14 10 6 106 GWF
3 4 6 33 IWCCW
2 1 1 14 WOW
1 2 2 13 USWA
0 3 2 11 W*ING
0 1 2 5 WAR
0 1 1 4 New Japan
0 1 0 3 All Japan Women
0 1 0 3 IWF
0 1 0 3 Big D
0 0 1 1 All Japan
0 0 1 1 EMLL
0 0 1 1 ECW
0 0 1 1 CWUSA
0 0 1 1 UWF
0 0 1 1 SAPW

Maybe I'm cheating a bit here, but I did read about these promotions all
year in the Observer and feel compelled to vote them the first and second
worst organizations: GWF and Big D. Everything I read made me think that
these things would have made the CNWA look like All Japan. Third place
goes to the WWF, which really only improved it's wrestling content when
a select handful (or less) of wrestlers is involved. Everything makes
sense and it's easy to watch, but so much of it is *so* insulting...

RICK SCAIA: While the GWF is completely awful on a pretty small scale,
WCW manages to consistantly be pretty bad on a completely colossal scale.
How have three such incompetent people as Eric Bischoff, Ole Anderson,
and Dusty Rhoades managed to get control over and ruin a worldwide wrestling
promotion?? It's really sad.

Worst Wrestling Show
--------------------

Award Description:
To be given to the worst wrestling show you saw this year. This could
be a Pay-Per-View, a Clash of Champions, a Saturday Night's Main Event,
or an arena show you attended. We'll avoid syndicated shows for this
award, since when they're bad it's the norm.

Previous Winners:
1990: N/A
1991: WCW Great American Bash, 07/07/91
1992: WWF This Tuesday In Texas, 12/03/91

This Year's Winner: WWF WrestleMania IX, 04/04/93

Participation Statistics:
Total 1st Place Voters = 53 (= 265 points)
Total 2nd Place Voters = 45 (= 135 points)
Total 3rd Place Voters = 39 (= 39 points)

Detailed Results:

1st 2nd 3rd Score

16 9 5 112 WWF WrestleMania IX, 04/04/93
9 4 4 61 WCW Fall Brawl, 09/19/93
2 6 2 30 WCW Power Hour weekly TV
2 4 6 28 GWF on ESPN weekly
2 4 3 25 WCW Beach Blast, 07/18/93
3 1 1 19 WCW Slamboree, 05/23/93
2 2 3 19 WCW Main Event weekly TV
2 3 0 19 WWF Royal Rumble, 01/24/93
3 1 0 18 UWF Reruns on Prime Network
1 2 4 15 WWF Superstars weekly TV
2 1 0 13 WCW Worldwide weekly TV
1 1 0 8 WCW Saturday Night weekly TV
1 1 0 8 WWF All American weekly TV
1 1 0 8 IWCCW weekly TV
0 2 0 6 WCW Clash of Champions XXIV, 08/18/93
1 0 1 6 WWF Challenge weekly TV
1 0 1 6 WWF King of The Ring, 06/13/93
1 0 1 6 WCW Clash of the Champions (in general)
1 0 0 5 WCW Pro weekly TV
1 0 0 5 WWF Mania TV
1 0 0 5 New Japan 05/04/93 Fukuoka Dome show
0 1 0 3 WWF Monday Night RAW weekly TV
0 1 0 3 WCW Halloween Havoc, 10/25/93
0 1 0 3 WWF Survivor Series, 11/25/92
0 0 2 2 WWF Summer Slam, 08/30/93
0 0 2 2 USWA weekly TV
0 0 1 1 All Japan weekly TV
0 0 1 1 ECW on Sportschannel
0 0 1 1 EMLL weekly TV
0 0 1 1 WCW Starrcade, 11/28/92 (with BattleBowl)

The worst wrestling show of the year has to easily be WWF's WrestleMania IX.
It started off with a couple of okay matches, but then gave us nothing but
shit. I made a mistake this year and allowed the syndicated shows to get
nominations and votes, even though the award description prohibits that.
I realized it far too late to make a difference. Since everybody else
got to vote for syndicated shows on their ballots, I voted for WWF Superstars
and WWF Challenge second and third, in that order. There is so little good
wrestling on these shows that if you tape them, you can fast-forward over
the great majority of the show without stopping to play anything.

Worst Promotional Move
----------------------

Award Description:
To be given the worst move made by a promotion this past year. This
could include giving somebody a push, demoting someone, firing someone,
hiring someone, or anything of a promotional nature.

Previous Winners:
1990: N/A
1991: WCW loses Ric Flair
1992: WCW bans off the top rope moves under Bill Watts

This Year's Winner: WCW tapes 13 weeks of TV at one time in Orlando, Fla.

Participation Statistics:
Total 1st Place Voters = 61 (= 305 points)
Total 2nd Place Voters = 61 (= 183 points)
Total 3rd Place Voters = 54 (= 54 points)

Detailed Results:

1st 2nd 3rd Score

10 10 5 85 WCW tapes 13 weeks of TV at one time in Orlando, Fla.
9 9 2 74 WWF brings back Hulk Hogan and gives him the title
8 4 7 59 WCW gives Dusty Rhodes, Ole Anderson, and Eric Bischoff
power and leaves them in power
7 3 4 48 WCW adds too many no-talent wrestlers to the mix
2 4 3 25 WWF books USA vs. the world
2 3 5 24 WCW pushes Erik Watts while Bill Watts is in charge
2 3 2 21 WCW uses mini-movies to promote PPVs
3 1 1 19 WCW books lame WarGames, hurting reputation
of that gimmick match
1 4 0 17 WCW fails to sign Tully Blanchard as the fourth Horseman
2 2 1 17 WCW not signing Lightning Kid Sean Waltman when
they had the chance
2 1 0 13 WCW signs Sid Vicious
2 1 0 13 WWF loses Ric Flair
1 1 4 12 WWF pushes Lex Luger over Bret Hart
1 2 0 11 WCW puts out too many PPV's
1 1 2 10 WCW doesn't push Chris Benoit
1 1 1 9 WWF pushes Lex Luger as a Hulk Hogan clone with
the Lex Express
1 1 1 9 WCW's confusion over NWA/Gold/International Title
1 1 1 9 WCW re-forms Four Horsemen and books on the past
1 0 2 7 WCW books too many screw jobs in big matches
0 1 3 6 WCW brings in Fred Ottman as Shockmaster and pushes him
0 2 0 6 WCW's Shockmaster fiasco
0 2 0 6 WWF gives Yokozuna the World Title a second time
0 2 0 6 WCW fires Bill Watts for stuff he said before
they hired him
1 0 0 5 WWF makes The Undertaker an all American babyface
1 0 0 5 UWFi promoting itself as "Shootwrestling--It's REAL!!!"
1 0 0 5 WWF fails to have Bret Hart vs. Hulk Hogan main
event at Summer Slam
1 0 0 5 New Japan gives the Jurassic Powers: Scott Norton
& Hercules the IWGP Tag Titles
0 1 0 3 WWF continues to stereotype by race, colour,
creed and undead
0 1 0 3 Masked Assassin vs. Dusty Rhodes gets rekindled
0 0 1 1 SMW's Jim Cornette works with the WWF
0 0 1 1 WWF makes Yokozuna a 30 second champion at WM IX
0 0 1 1 WWF makes The King of The Ring PPV
0 0 1 1 WWF gives Lightning Kid Sean Waltman a new name
0 0 1 1 WCW doesn't push Bobby Eaton
0 0 1 1 WCW gives the Nasty Boys the Tag Titles
0 0 1 1 WCW has 2 Cold Scorpio & Marcus Alexander Bagwell
title reign last one day TV time
0 0 1 1 WWF brings in Jim Cornette as a manager
0 0 1 1 WWF brings in Jeff Jarrett as a country singer wannabe
0 0 1 1 Vince McMahon calling IRS "Mr. Rotundo" repeatedly

By far the worst promotional move was WCW adding so many talentless bums to
their product mix and pushing them into all levels of competition. There
was a time that WCW was guaranteed to have good matches on top because
everybody was a competent worker and that isn't true any more. The second
worst promotional move was WCW not pushing Chris Benoit. Here was there
chance to push one of the most skilled wrestlers in the world (probably
the most skilled, if you want to talk about working different style matches)
that is very respected in other corners of the world and they jobbed him
out to the Cole Twins. Third place goes to the reason that we even had
the first two situations: WCW putting Dusty Rhodes, Eric Bischoff, and
Ole Anderson in charge.

BOB RUSBASAN: I could give you at least a dozen more WCW mistakes. Sigh.

RICK SCAIA: Taping 13 weeks of TV (complete with openly flaunting champions
who wouldn't be crowned for months) at once has to be the dumbest thing
I have ever heard of happenning in wrestling. Any of the WCW mini-movies
promoting PPV's would be a close second, though. The WWF's worst offense
of the year, promoting Lex Luger as their top face, seems to pale in
comparison.

And the final batch of netter-suggested awards:

Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic
1. UWFi's Pelc Calling His Wrestling "Real" and all others fake
2. WWF's Naming of SurvSer Heel Contingent "Foreign Fanatics"
3. WWF's Handling of On-Going Steroid Crisis

Biggest Regret: Not getting to see McMahon play a heel in Memphis

Biggest Disappointment
1. The "Four" Horsemen Re-Unite
2. Sid Vicious' Return to WCW
3. WCW Severs Relationship with New Japan Pro

The Bill Watts Award
To WCW for firing Bill Watts for racial comments and then thinking of
bringing in Harlem Heat as a bunch of prisoners being led around in chains
by Col. Parker.

Best wrestling "couple" - these 2 people just belonged together
1. Bam-Bam & Luna
2. Jesse Ventura & Tony Schiavone
3. "Macho Man" Randy Savage & the Macho Midget

Best Referee: Mark Curtis

Best Women Wrestlers No One Knows About
Heidi Lee Morgan & Rustee "The Fox" Thomas

Jack Victory Memorial "Man of a Thousand Gimmicks award": Steve Lombardi
(Having been the Brooklyn Brawler, Doink, Kim Chee, and the "MVP", all
within the course of the voting period)

Best Promotional Movie
1. Brian Christopher giving the "homeless" guy a ride, then making
him wash Brian's car and clean his house. I'm not sure this was
after November 8, 1992, but it's pretty funny nonetheless.

Best Interviewer
1. Jesse Ventura
2. Mene Gene Okerland
3. Vince McMahon

Best "live" Performance
1. "Macho Man" Randy Savage defamation of Hulk Hogan on MNR
2. Bret Hart interview on MNR re: Lawler
3. Brutus Beefcake "selling" IRS briefcase hit

Best Doink Trick
1. Fake arm
1. Water in the bucket
2. Squirting flower

Paul R Perdeus

unread,
Dec 13, 1993, 9:37:21 PM12/13/93
to
Herb,

Why do you even bother taking votes when you only use this as
a forum for you opinions which you state as if it's *FACT* etched in
stone? After every vote recap, you put a long dissertation in saying
who should have one and why. This is fine, except you rarely use IMO or
anything even close. [I counted 2 occasions in all 3 posts]. "Dream
Slam I and II as the best shows of the year. Is there any doubt?"
Obviously, since neither one made the top 5. If you cut out the votes
and show your comments to someone, is there any doubt that the person
would think that your picks were the general consensus of the Net (which
*WAS* the whole idea behind this right?)? You go through a painstaking
process of breaking down the data and showing everything in detail and
then follow it up by stating "The best <fill in the category> of this
past year was 1)....2)...3)..." Why not at least say "I thought" or "My
votes were". In all fairness, I guess I did see the second comment in
the posts. But the overall tone of was very VERY *VERY*
looking-down-the-nose at the rest of the net as if to say "Well, nice
try guys, but the REAL winners in these categories were <xxx>" You
should send Lord Regal a few pointers. I would really like to hear
other people's opinions on this. Please email me (or post if you wish).

Just ***MHO***,


Paul

christopher zimmerman

unread,
Dec 14, 1993, 2:53:19 AM12/14/93
to
I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree here, although not as vehemently.
Sure, I'm interested in your votes, but did you have to insert them after
every category? I just see next year, when you post the results and 30
people give you their comments, following your lead. I'll have to wade
through 7 parts just to find the results!
Maybe next time, you could include your comments separately? Sure, people
might be more tempted to skip them if they're not bracketing results (which
people might be slightly more interested in), but it's a lot harder to think
of this as an r.s.p-w poll when I keep reading about how much you disliked
the WWF this year (I know, I know...)

Having said all that, I also would like to observe that it's your poll,
and you can do it however you want, so you may feel free to ignore all these
comments. HOWEVER, if I happen to be around the next time the poll comes
around, expect me to be equally verbose when explain my "correct" picks...

(SMILEY! I know you never said yours were "correct" but that doesn't mean I
can't say mine are... SMILEY!)

--
Christopher Robin Zimmerman / kz...@galaxy.ucr.edu
Don't blame me...I voted for Damien DeMento

Oliver Postlethwaite

unread,
Dec 14, 1993, 10:26:35 AM12/14/93
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In a previous article, prp...@pitt.edu (Paul R Perdeus) says:

>Herb,
>
> Why do you even bother taking votes when you only use this as
>a forum for you opinions which you state as if it's *FACT* etched in
>stone? After every vote recap, you put a long dissertation in saying

>who should have one and why. [stuff deleted] I would really like to hear


>other people's opinions on this. Please email me (or post if you wish).

First of all, I want to publicly thank Herb for all the effort he has
obviously put into the awards - reading them last night was really fun.

IMO, Herb's (and the other) comments add a lot to the results and make them
more multi-dimensional. It probably doesn't hurt that I agree with most
(but not all) of what Herb has to say about professional wrestling. Now
if I had to read three articles of Rick Scaia's WWF jingoism, then I might
get a little annoyed (big smiley Rick, I'm just having some fun ;) ).

Anyway, if Herb's comments really piss you off, why not take the time to
post your own opinions on who and why you voted for right now.


Oliver
--
"Hipsters unite. Come align for the big fight to rock for you." - Billy Corgan
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oliver Postlethwaite - ab...@Freenet.carleton.ca - 564...@acadvm1.uottawa.ca
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Herb Kunze

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Dec 14, 1993, 11:31:32 AM12/14/93
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In article <97...@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, Paul R Perdeus <prp...@pitt.edu> wrote:
> Why do you even bother taking votes when you only use this as
>a forum for you opinions which you state as if it's *FACT* etched in
>stone?

I thought prefacing the post by saying that results would be followed
by my comments on how I voted and comments from others on how they
voted told you that those comments are in the relevant person's
opinion. If anything, the two IMO that you saw were superfluous. ;-)
I had hoped more people would submit comments. Had nobody included
any, I would not have bothered composing mine. You're reading
something ito my comments that isn't there. I was very careful
not to criticize the results of the awards or how other people
voted.
Herb...

Herb Kunze

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Dec 14, 1993, 12:28:26 PM12/14/93
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In article <2ejrdf$8...@galaxy.ucr.edu>,

christopher zimmerman <kz...@galaxy.ucr.edu> wrote:
> I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree here, although not as vehemently.
>Sure, I'm interested in your votes, but did you have to insert them after
>every category? I just see next year, when you post the results and 30
>people give you their comments, following your lead. I'll have to wade
>through 7 parts just to find the results!
> Maybe next time, you could include your comments separately? Sure, people
>might be more tempted to skip them if they're not bracketing results (which
>people might be slightly more interested in), but it's a lot harder to think
>of this as an r.s.p-w poll when I keep reading about how much you disliked
>the WWF this year (I know, I know...)
> Having said all that, I also would like to observe that it's your poll,
>and you can do it however you want, so you may feel free to ignore all these
>comments. HOWEVER, if I happen to be around the next time the poll comes
>around, expect me to be equally verbose when explain my "correct" picks...

Where to start? I don't think of the awards as "my" poll. As I
said in the introduction to the results, I'm looking for any feedback
or suggestions on how to change things (or, heck, if you've only got
positive comments, I'd like to hear those too ;-)).

Some time long before the awards for 1994, I'll ask for votes on
the changes. For example, maybe if we discard the "Worst..."
categories, we could include comments from everybody (if the quantity
of comments does increase) without increasing the post to 7 articles.
We could stick a list of the award winners at the top of the post,
for people that are not interested in any detail. Anyhow, I'm
noting all suggestions and will include them on some sort of
questionnaire next year (maybe it's best to do it ASAP while
the current awards are on everybody's mind).

In previous years, the results were posted and there was little, if
any, discussion on the results. Enough people participated that
running the awards still seemed worthwhile, though. So, this year
I thought that including the discussion in the results might spark
some more interesting discussion or observations. Instead, it
sparked a couple of flames, so maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

Herb...

Paul R Perdeus

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Dec 14, 1993, 7:11:22 PM12/14/93
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In article <CI16w...@freenet.carleton.ca> ab...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Oliver Postlethwaite) writes:
>
>First of all, I want to publicly thank Herb for all the effort he has
>obviously put into the awards - reading them last night was really fun.

***THIS IS NOT A FLAME! THIS IS NOT A FLAME! THIS IS NOT A FLAME!!!***

Oliver,

I never knocked the effort that Herb put into it. I think it's
a great idea. The comments were too much. Maybe I shouldn't have been
so hasty or rough in my remarks. I guess I should have just sent it via
email as a 'suggestion' for altering the result process for next year.
I guess the timing was right and it ticked me off.

>
>IMO, Herb's (and the other) comments add a lot to the results and make them
>more multi-dimensional. It probably doesn't hurt that I agree with most
>(but not all) of what Herb has to say about professional wrestling. Now
>if I had to read three articles of Rick Scaia's WWF jingoism, then I might
>get a little annoyed (big smiley Rick, I'm just having some fun ;) ).


How can his comment make it more multidimensional than it already is? I
mean you're seeing 50 or 60 different people's opinions in their
anonymous *VOTE*. And then a couple of paragraphs on why all these
people were wrong and who the true winners should be. One other 4 line
comment by a random voter hardly balances it out.


>
>Anyway, if Herb's comments really piss you off, why not take the time to
>post your own opinions on who and why you voted for right now.
>

I did not vote. Mainly because there were too many categories and too
many crossed over in my opinion. Also, since I am just getting exposed
to Japan (I guess I probably have about 100 hours of it now) I knew that
it would be mostly N.A. votes anyway because I would guess that the
majority of people on the Net don't have access to much else and I knew
that there would be a lot of "<XXXX Wrestler> as the most <XXXX
Category>????!?! How can you possibly say that when <XXX Japanese
wrestler> did this and this and this and this?!?!?" posts. I couldn't
go through the uneducated speech again, so I didn't bother. I never
said that I disagreed with Herb's votes (although I am saying now that I
am at most 50/50 with him) in my post. That wasn't my reasoning for
posting/flaming (if you will). My whole point was that it shouldn't
have been in the results post and also the general tone that he
speaks/types in when it comes to who is better than who. Guess what? I
have seen AJW and a lot of Japan stuff and all of the RSPW tapes. I
still like N.A. stuff better. If I ever get that "What I think of
Japanese wrestling" post finished, I'll let you know why.


>
>Oliver
>--
>"Hipsters unite. Come align for the big fight to rock for you." - Billy Corgan
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Oliver Postlethwaite - ab...@Freenet.carleton.ca - 564...@acadvm1.uottawa.ca
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, no flames to you Oliver, or to you Herb. Just my thoughts on the
subject.

Paul

Herb Kunze

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Dec 15, 1993, 1:51:36 PM12/15/93
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In article <99...@blue.cis.pitt.edu>, Paul R Perdeus <prp...@pitt.edu> wrote:
>In article <CI16w...@freenet.carleton.ca> ab...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Oliver Postlethwaite) writes:
>>IMO, Herb's (and the other) comments add a lot to the results and make them
>>more multi-dimensional. It probably doesn't hurt that I agree with most
>>(but not all) of what Herb has to say about professional wrestling. Now
>>if I had to read three articles of Rick Scaia's WWF jingoism, then I might
>>get a little annoyed (big smiley Rick, I'm just having some fun ;) ).
>How can his comment make it more multidimensional than it already is? I
>mean you're seeing 50 or 60 different people's opinions in their
>anonymous *VOTE*. And then a couple of paragraphs on why all these
>people were wrong and who the true winners should be. One other 4 line
>comment by a random voter hardly balances it out.

Jeez, did I ever say that anybody was wrong? I explained the reasons
for why I voted the way I did. My comments were written long before
the results were final. In the few cases where I actually mentioned
somebody with historically strong support (or suprising support this year)
and didn't feel they placed highly on my own ballot, I explained why.
In one case, I said that "I think" Bret Hart's strong support in a category
was the result of successful marketing and lack of exposure to others.
I never said anybody was wrong. Maybe you disagree strongly with me on
some things and are inferring something from my words.

>I did not vote. Mainly because there were too many categories and too
>many crossed over in my opinion. Also, since I am just getting exposed
>to Japan (I guess I probably have about 100 hours of it now) I knew that
>it would be mostly N.A. votes anyway because I would guess that the
>majority of people on the Net don't have access to much else and I knew
>that there would be a lot of "<XXXX Wrestler> as the most <XXXX
>Category>????!?! How can you possibly say that when <XXX Japanese
>wrestler> did this and this and this and this?!?!?" posts. I couldn't
>go through the uneducated speech again, so I didn't bother.

And there haven't been a "lot" of those posts, have there? Looks like you
missed a good forum to have the reasons for your opinions juxtaposed
against mine and others. This bitching has little positive in it as
others have pointed out.

>I never
>said that I disagreed with Herb's votes (although I am saying now that I
>am at most 50/50 with him) in my post. That wasn't my reasoning for
>posting/flaming (if you will). My whole point was that it shouldn't
>have been in the results post and also the general tone that he
>speaks/types in when it comes to who is better than who. Guess what? I
>have seen AJW and a lot of Japan stuff and all of the RSPW tapes. I
>still like N.A. stuff better. If I ever get that "What I think of
>Japanese wrestling" post finished, I'll let you know why.

For whatever reason, you've decided that I'm a snobby, arrogant SOB
and that's perfectly within your rights.

You seem to read stuff into my posts that I don't think is there,
especially in this case. You'll be sad to know that I received a
fair bit (10-12) of e-mail this morning supporting keeping all the
awards and liking the idea of comments included in the body of
the awards results (perhaps limiting their length to a few lines
for smaller awards and allowing longer comments for "big" awards).
These aren't "my" awards as Christopher Zimmerman suggested (and he
didn't even comment nicely on good spelling in the post: Wippleman,
Liger, etc. Sigh :-(), so I will take a small vote on a few of these
"issues" and see what gets decided.

Yes, I have strong opinions on many things and I do express them. When
somebody gives a strongly differing opinion, I do ask them for the
reasons that they hold those views. I don't think that's unreasonable.
You are the one that said that you'd be posting a critique of Japanese
wrestling and that you thought you were educated enough on the subject
that your post should be above questioning. I do think that's pretty
unreasonable. Hell, I'm partway into my PhD in Applied Math and don't
expect that that puts me above questioning on mathematical things.

Herb...

dsch...@news.delphi.com

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Dec 15, 1993, 6:31:13 PM12/15/93
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For what it's worth, here is my opinion on the poll issue.

First, I rarely vote in any of these types of awards. Over the course of
the year, I see so many fantastic matches that it is just too hard to pick
a winner in many categories. The only no brainer, to me, would be Kobashi
as the wrestler of the year, and that would be by MY criteria, not Herb's
or meltzers.

About the poll, I would have loved to read it if all of the winners were
listed in a single post, with no commentary of vote totals.
unfgortunately, I am limited for time at the moment and can't wade through
3 100K posts.

Christopher Robin Zimmerman

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Dec 16, 1993, 4:47:09 AM12/16/93
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Herb Kunze <hek...@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

> These aren't "my" awards as Christopher Zimmerman suggested

Well, I certainly wouldn't call them anyone else's. For all the work you do,
you might as well stake a claim to them. I know if anybody else tried to call
for votes in order to give out awards, I'd stick up for you. Not that I dis-
courage competition, I've put up with Motherway's RAW thoughts for months
with only slight grumbles and hinted near-flames (SMILEY!), but you're the
awards guy in my mind.

> (and he
> didn't even comment nicely on good spelling in the post: Wippleman,
> Liger, etc. Sigh :-()

Now I'm ROTFL. Herb, you should know I only complain. (smiley) Seriously,
I was delighted to see Doyle King's name not spelled "Kind" like it was in
the nominations, and I knew you'd eventually come around on Wippleman. I've
learned to ignore Riger and was shocked to see you spell it like everyone
else does. (smiley) So, big buck kudos for the flawless spelling. Of course,
after saying this, I'm sure someone will weigh in with a spelling error I
didn't catch.

And I stand by what I said before. If you include comments, the awards list
will HUGE. You might as well post 46 articles. If thirty people give you a
four line comment, ONE category will be about as long as a non-sweeps month
RAW report. Now I know I'm exaggerating, but that's what it could become.

Christopher Robin Zimmerman
/ zimm...@ucrengr.ucr.edu / kz...@ucrmath.ucr.edu / kz...@watserv.ucr.edu /
I am looking for a library job...nah


Herb Kunze

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Dec 16, 1993, 11:42:40 AM12/16/93
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In article <2eo6o1$a...@news.delphi.com>,

DSCH...@DELPHI.COM <dsch...@news.delphi.com> wrote:
>About the poll, I would have loved to read it if all of the winners were
>listed in a single post, with no commentary of vote totals.
>unfgortunately, I am limited for time at the moment and can't wade through
>3 100K posts.

Not that it matters, but I cut of the posts length at 64K. The
complete awards results were 148K not 300K.

I know that people might not have time at the moment they hit the
awards posts. Can't you save the posts somehow (or download them)
for lazy sunday (or whatever) reading? I think trying to limit the
size of the awards results to something that can be read quickly
on-line would be very tough. I thought about posting a fourth
article that only listed the awards with winners. That would
be a 50 line post. I read that Rick Scaia was going to post
an abridged version of the results, so I'll stay out of it.

Herb...

Herb Kunze

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Dec 16, 1993, 11:58:31 AM12/16/93
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In article <2epaqt$r...@galaxy.ucr.edu>,
Christopher Robin Zimmerman <zimm...@ucrengr.ucr.edu> wrote:

>Herb Kunze <hek...@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>> (and he
>> didn't even comment nicely on good spelling in the post: Wippleman,
>> Liger, etc. Sigh :-()
>Now I'm ROTFL. Herb, you should know I only complain. (smiley) Seriously,
>I was delighted to see Doyle King's name not spelled "Kind" like it was in
>the nominations, and I knew you'd eventually come around on Wippleman. I've
>learned to ignore Riger and was shocked to see you spell it like everyone
>else does. (smiley) So, big buck kudos for the flawless spelling. Of course,
>after saying this, I'm sure someone will weigh in with a spelling error I
>didn't catch.

Well, I did spell Marty's last name Janetty. Didn't the WWF add a second
"n" at some point? You can't complain though: Liger, Wippleman,
Gonzalez, Mo. Hey, that's not too bad. ;-)

>And I stand by what I said before. If you include comments, the awards list
>will HUGE. You might as well post 46 articles. If thirty people give you a
>four line comment, ONE category will be about as long as a non-sweeps month
>RAW report. Now I know I'm exaggerating, but that's what it could become.

I dunno. So many people complain that they don't have time at this time
of year. Do you really think that 30 people would bother to add comments
on every award?

If we are worried about that level of participation in comments then
we'd have to limit the comments length. You suggest 4 lines, say.
I'm already in trouble then! That's fine for Worst Manager or
most of bottom 30 awards, but there's no way I could explain
"Wrestler of the Year" in 4 lines. Despite Rick's complaint that
my comments were too long, I went over them a few times to make
them as short as I could!

I guess there's a difference in my view of the awards too. I view them
as something that should take some time to read and be entertaining to
re-read a few times.
Herb...

Herb Kunze

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Dec 14, 1993, 12:46:13 PM12/14/93
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In article <CI16w...@freenet.carleton.ca>,

Oliver Postlethwaite <ab...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>First of all, I want to publicly thank Herb for all the effort he has
>obviously put into the awards - reading them last night was really fun.

Yeah! Positive feedback! Thanks Oliver. But for some of the
administrative drudgery, running the awards is a lot of fun.

>IMO, Herb's (and the other) comments add a lot to the results and make them
>more multi-dimensional. It probably doesn't hurt that I agree with most
>(but not all) of what Herb has to say about professional wrestling. Now
>if I had to read three articles of Rick Scaia's WWF jingoism, then I might
>get a little annoyed (big smiley Rick, I'm just having some fun ;) ).

I guess things were a little different for me. I printed the final
post (that I split into three); it took 14 sheets of paper, double-sided,
2-up. That makes it a different read than sitting at a terminal.
I was very pleased with the final post on paper, albeit somewhat
disappointed at the limited number of people giving comments.

>Anyway, if Herb's comments really piss you off, why not take the time to
>post your own opinions on who and why you voted for right now.

If the size of the resulting post if many people supply comments is
a big worry, maybe we can limit the number of lines of comments
each person can make for each award (myself included). We could
allow larger comments for the so-called "big" awards.

With my fascination for the reasons why people hold their opinions,
I think that the comments have the potential to make the awards
post very interesting. Maybe I'm alone with this feeling.
Herb...

Greg Gershowitz

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Dec 17, 1993, 9:49:12 AM12/17/93
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zimm...@ucrengr.ucr.edu (Christopher Robin Zimmerman) writes:

>Herb Kunze <hek...@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:


>Now I'm ROTFL. Herb, you should know I only complain. (smiley) Seriously,
>I was delighted to see Doyle King's name not spelled "Kind" like it was in
>the nominations, and I knew you'd eventually come around on Wippleman. I've
>learned to ignore Riger and was shocked to see you spell it like everyone
>else does. (smiley) So, big buck kudos for the flawless spelling. Of course,
>after saying this, I'm sure someone will weigh in with a spelling error I
>didn't catch.

Well, it's not a spelling error, but I noticed that Todd Pettengill
was listed twice in one of the awards. (Don't remember which one,
sorry) Oh, for anybody who cares, Todd was always a nut-job. I know
someone who went to school with him.

-Greg G
--
"No matter who you are, no matter what you look like, deep down in
the gunny sack of your soul, in the top drawer, in the back, on the
bottom, we all have a pair of pants with a pocket full of kryptonite."
"When God belches, it sounds OK" - Spin Doctors, Jones Beach, 7/9/93

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