How reliable are Sea Doos?
Dave Hilliard
First off I'm new to this group. I was very glad to find a group
devoted to PWC.
We purchased a 93 XP last year and have since been plagued by
problems.
I almost hate to launch the damn thing for fear of it braking down!
What is your opinion about manually adding oil to the gas to ensure no
seize up if oil pump fails. I realize the spark plugs will need to be
cleaned or replaced more often. I'm looking at a $1500.00 rebuild job
to fix a recently rebuilt engine. Is the oil injection system
reliable? Could Sea Doo not install some sort of paddle wheel sensor
in the oil line to minitor that at least oil is flowing to pump? Is
this feasible?
Here's the recent story:
1) After running for a couple of hours on Lake Huron the XP lost power
and died on the water. My wife attempted to start it and the enginge
would not turn over. (Looks like she cooked the starter as well). I
thought it might be a dead battery, which was unlikely as the battery
was only a month old and I occasionally recharge it at a 1 amp rate
for a few hours every month.
2) When we got the craft home I notice the engine would not completely
turn at the PTO shaft even with the spark plugs out. At this point I
realized we were looking a serious damage.
3) Last year the former owner spent $2000.00 to have this engine
rebuilt, he showed me the receipts before I purchased the craft. I
estimate the former owner had about 40 hours on the engine. We have
used about 5 tanks of fuel since buying it. I cannot recall if the
crankshaft was replaced.
4) I never allow the oil resovior to go below half, so there is no
chance of it running out of oil.
5) We use rotax oil as specified by manufacturer.
6) The dealer that did the original rebuild is out of business so I
took the Sea Doo to what I feel is an honest dealer. I was told that
there were only 3 bolts holding the rotary valve cover on instead of
4. The dealer feels that this probably caused the rear cylinder to
starve for oil over a long period of time. He feels that by sucking
air the bearings were under lubricated. Is this possible?
7) The VTS works intermittantly. It almost always works while the
craft is on the trailer but frequently refuses to work on the water.
The other day I hit the start button without the tether attached to
engage the electrical system and check the gas, the VTS fired up and
went to the maximum up position. Also I have noticed occasionally the
VTS motor is very hot, which suggests that it is receiving
unauthourized voltage. I was just going to disconnect the damn thing
or remove the fuse, but it's a nice feature and I would like to
preserve it. Any ideas what is wrong?
8) Grounding the overheat terminal while engine is running does not
activate the overheat beeper. Is the beeper likly faulty?
9) So here we are looking a rebuilding a recently rebuil engine - what
a shame and a waste of money.
Any opinions, suggestions or advice. Please post or email.
Regards
Jerry Bransford
After having read the jetski news posts this past year, my opinion of
Sea Doo has gone from fairly favorable (fast and fun!!) to downright
afraid to buy one! I'm now only looking at Yamaha to replace my current
100% problem-free Yamaha Waverunner III. Man, I can't get over all the
Sea-Doo problems I've been reading about here!!!
--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL, KC6TAY, C.A.P.
The Zen hotdog... make me one with everything!
J405
See-Doos are and always will Be inferior by manufacturing and design
methods as compared to the Japanese companies. For stone cold performance
& RELIABILITY YAMAHA CANT BE BEAT. Live and learn.
NathanJ294
To much oil creates a rich condition not lean just ask your local
mechanic.
Christopher Paull
In article <4sudo5$8...@lex.zippo.com>, dhil...@mail.lonet.ca (Dave
Hilliard) writes:
|> First off I'm new to this group. I was very glad to find a group
|> devoted to PWC.
|>
|> We purchased a 93 XP last year and have since been plagued by
|> problems.
|>
|> I almost hate to launch the damn thing for fear of it braking down!
Many people have posted here about problems with their SeaDoo's, there
have also been many who have had Zero problems (such as myself).
As far as I know the SeaDoo products are as reliabiale or better than
any of the other manufacturers out there (with the possible exception
of Yamaha, which I believe has a slightly better reputation.)
One reason you see more complaints about SeaDoo is because more people
own SeaDoo products. SeaDoo owns a significantly higher portion of
the market than any of the other manufacturers so the volume
of complaints may be higher, but this does not neccisarily mean
less reliability.
For Example:
500 SeaDoo's * 1% failure rate = 5 problems (complaints)
100 Yamaha's * 1% failure rate = 1 problem (complaint)
|>
|> What is your opinion about manually adding oil to the gas to ensure no
|> seize up if oil pump fails.
If you want to do this, you should completely switch to pre-mix.
In other words, remove/block off the oil injection system.
Otherwise, you will be putting too much oil into the engine which
could cause a lean condition and poor performance. (As well as
haveing to clean the spark plugs more often).
|>
|> 6) The dealer that did the original rebuild is out of business so I
|> took the Sea Doo to what I feel is an honest dealer. I was told that
|> there were only 3 bolts holding the rotary valve cover on instead of
|> 4. The dealer feels that this probably caused the rear cylinder to
|> starve for oil over a long period of time. He feels that by sucking
|> air the bearings were under lubricated. Is this possible?
This is wrong. If one of the intake bolts was missing you probably
had an air leak. This would cause the engine to run lean, and would
cause a piston siezure.
|>
|> 7) The VTS works intermittantly. It almost always works while the
|> craft is on the trailer but frequently refuses to work on the water.
|> The other day I hit the start button without the tether attached to
|> engage the electrical system and check the gas, the VTS fired up and
|> went to the maximum up position. Also I have noticed occasionally the
|> VTS motor is very hot, which suggests that it is receiving
|> unauthourized voltage. I was just going to disconnect the damn thing
|> or remove the fuse, but it's a nice feature and I would like to
|> preserve it. Any ideas what is wrong?
Are you running resistor plugs? If you use Non-Resistor plugs in a SeaDoo
with VTS, the VTS will NOT operate properly. The SeaDoo manual
specifically
says to use Resistor type plugs. Make sure you have NGK B8RES plugs or
equivilent, the R stands for resistor. Do NOT substitute B8ES plugs...
|>
|>
--
Chris Paull -- cpa...@mti.sgi.com --
http://reality.sgi.com/employees/cpaull
USPS: MIPS Technologies, Inc. 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd.
P.O. Box 7311 M/S 10L-175 MountainView, CA 94039-7311
PHONE: (415)-933-4424 VOICE: "Yo, Chris!" -- Standard Disclaimer --
"Mere words do not suffice, to understand you must experience."
CharlesBruni
NathanJ294 wrote:
>
> To much oil creates a rich condition not lean just ask your local
> mechanic.
Wrong...
Actually, when you run too much oil in premix you do cause a lean
condition. The jets in your carb can only pass so much liquid. If you
run too much oil, you are actually taking some of the jet's flow capacity
away from the flow of gas. The result of this is to run too little gas.
You have two choices to solve this problem: Rejet to larger jets to make
room for the additional flow of oil, or run a lean gas condition. The
latter will lead to seizure. Just ask your mechanic...now...or later.
Chuck
a customer at Coffeetopia
Jerry Bransford wrote:
> I'm now only looking at Yamaha to replace my current
> 100% problem-free Yamaha Waverunner III. Man, I can't get over all the
> Sea-Doo problems I've been reading about here!!!
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL, KC6TAY, C.A.P.
> The Zen hotdog... make me one with everything!
I think you being a little selective in what you've been reading here.
There are problems reported for all makes and models. And as has been
pointed out previously...it would be hard to infer any reliability
statistics off this group as the relative numbers of each brand are
unknown. If, as I imagine, more people own Seadoos' you will see more
Seadoo problems mentioned.
Gregg "They all should be banned anyway!" Cohn :-)
grc...@cats.ucsc.edu
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
Jerry Bransford
a customer at Coffeetopia wrote:
>
> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
> > I'm now only looking at Yamaha to replace my current
> > 100% problem-free Yamaha Waverunner III. Man, I can't get over all the
> > Sea-Doo problems I've been reading about here!!!
> >
> > --
> > Jerry Bransford
> > PP-ASEL, KC6TAY, C.A.P.
> > The Zen hotdog... make me one with everything!
>
> I think you being a little selective in what you've been reading here.
> There are problems reported for all makes and models. And as has been
> pointed out previously...it would be hard to infer any reliability
> statistics off this group as the relative numbers of each brand are
> unknown. If, as I imagine, more people own Seadoos' you will see more
> Seadoo problems mentioned.
>
Actually, no, I wasn't being "a little selective" since I look more for
Yamaha related posts than I do Sea Doo. But since I was actually
thinking about buying a Sea Doo to replace my Yamaha for performance
reasons, I have been reading every Yamaha *and* Sea Doo posting. I
seldom if ever see postings about problems with Yamahas but I sure see
LOTS and LOTS (no exaggeration) of problem reports with Sea Doo. There
are more Sea Doos out there, I'm sure, but the amount of problem reports
seems, TO ME anyway, to be WAY out of preportion to the numbers of Sea
Doos vs Yamahas. On a very subjective basis (not objective,
SUBjective), it does seem to me that Sea Doo owners are reporting lots
more problems than do Yamaha owners, me inluded in the latter group.
And finally, I was truly looking to replace my Yamaha with a better
performing Sea Doo, so I was very favorable towards Sea Doo until I
began noticing the preponderance of Sea Doo problem postings. I don't
change my mind easily, but it does seem that for reliability, it's not
Sea Doo that has favorably impressed me over this past year.
Christopher Paull
In article <31F67C...@pacbell.net>, Jerry Bransford
<jer...@pacbell.net> writes:
|> Actually, no, I wasn't being "a little selective" since I look more for
|> |> Yamaha related posts than I do Sea Doo. But since I was actually
|> thinking about buying a Sea Doo to replace my Yamaha for performance
|> reasons, I have been reading every Yamaha *and* Sea Doo posting. I
|> seldom if ever see postings about problems with Yamahas but I sure see
|> LOTS and LOTS (no exaggeration) of problem reports with Sea Doo. There
|> |> are more Sea Doos out there, I'm sure, but the amount of problem
|> reports
|> seems, TO ME anyway, to be WAY out of preportion to the numbers of Sea
|> Doos vs Yamahas. On a very subjective basis (not objective,
|> SUBjective), it does seem to me that Sea Doo owners are reporting lots
|> more problems than do Yamaha owners, me inluded in the latter group.
There were a bunch of postings about problems with impellor vibrations
on the SuperJet I believe, and also with the cooling hoses falling off
on 1100 Wave Raiders, but that was a while ago.
I haven't seen much on Yamaha's recently either.
Also, Remember to look at whether or not the SeaDoo post refered
to a stock boat or a modified boat. Or whether it was the original
owner or not.
Finally keep in mind that there are more SeaDoo's out there
than Yamaha's.
Robb Baer
I've gone through two engines on my 96 XP. The reason
was the rev limiter was not functioning. Check to see that
yours is working. Mine does now.
Regardless, if the Sea Doo is less relaible or not, I don't
like the way Yamahas ride. If you like getting tossed off all
the time, by a Raider. My XP has never tried to toss me.
Robb Baer
STCorp
>And finally, I was truly looking to replace my Yamaha with a better
>performing Sea Doo, so I was very favorable towards Sea Doo until I
>began noticing the preponderance of Sea Doo problem postings.
Keep your Yamaha. Sea Doo has made it patently obvious to me that they
consider my three-year old Explorer with a seized engine (evidently caused
by a deteriorating oil line) to be none of their problem. The next time
that I buy a hard bottom inflatable I'll buy a real boat.
Sea Doos may be fine for racing. Someone else had the interesting
observation that they considered Sea Doo (Rotax) maintenance requirements
to be more in line with aircraft than with normal boats. So be it. I
want a reliable boat and Sea Doo just doesn't measure up.
JWG
Specialized Transport Corporation
** Overland boat and yacht transportation **
2840 S. College Rd., Suite 450
Wilmington, NC (USA) 28412
EMail to STC...@aol.com
Fax = (910) 313-1505
Phone = (910) 313-1540
Phone = (800) 851-9540
Bruce Holms
Jerry Bransford wrote:
>
> After having read the jetski news posts this past year, my opinion of
> Sea Doo has gone from fairly favorable (fast and fun!!) to downright
> 100% problem-free Yamaha Waverunner III. Man, I can't get over all the
> Sea-Doo problems I've been reading about here!!!
>
You really have to temper what you see here with a few grains of salt.
One of the reasins that you hear about so many Sea-Doo problems is
that they out sell everything else on the water. More boats on the
water=more problems. The other reason you hear stuff here is that
people talk about problems they are having, but tend not to talk
about it when they are not having problems. I will admit that I
have had more problems with my Sea-Doo than I had with my Yamaha,
but offshore racing is a harsh environment for a ski. Keep a
ski stock and any brand will be relatively problem free. Modify
the motor and all bets are off.
--
Bruce Holms
bho...@itchy.nafb.trw.com
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2801/
Eric Aupperlee
In <4t7ggu$l...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, stc...@aol.com (STCorp) writes:
[clip]
>
>Sea Doos may be fine for racing. Someone else had the interesting
>observation that they considered Sea Doo (Rotax) maintenance requirements
>to be more in line with aircraft than with normal boats. So be it. I
>want a reliable boat and Sea Doo just doesn't measure up.
>
While I do consider Yamaha to be of higher reliability than Bombardier,
that's a misquote.
The maintenance statement was about maintenance of *any* PWC, not just
Bombardier.
--
Eric Aupperlee
*These statments are mine.*
Eric Aupperlee
At top speed the XP is very skittish. Always has been. Bombardier changes
the hull to fix it, then adds more power resulting in a higher top speed and
that same skittishness.
I have no problems with my Raider at top speed, which is lower than an 96 XP's
top speed, so let's compare it to a 95 XP, which is a *little* slower than
my 94 Raider. Riding the Raider WFO is so much better than the XP. You need
to pay attention on both these craft, but the Raider just tracks right along.
The XP tends to dance. In any water conditions.
Biggest mistake people make on the Raider is letting off the throttle at
high speed. Absolute worst thing to do, 'cause then it *will* go where it
wants. Keep on the throttle, it tracks great.
Both these craft require some learning and attention to ride well WFO.
Both can also use some minor aftermarket mods (Riva or Ultrac depending on
Yam or Bom) to make them great at top speed.
(Side note: I currently own a 94 Raider and have considered buying a 96 XP.
Only real thing stopping me is money at the moment.)
C. Wheeler
Jerry Bransford <jer...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>a customer at Coffeetopia wrote:
>>
>> Jerry Bransford wrote:
>>
>> > 100% problem-free Yamaha Waverunner III. Man, I can't get over all the
>> > Sea-Doo problems I've been reading about here!!!
>> >
>> > Jerry Bransford
>> > PP-ASEL, KC6TAY, C.A.P.
>> > The Zen hotdog... make me one with everything!
>>
>> I think you being a little selective in what you've been reading here.
>> There are problems reported for all makes and models. And as has been
>> pointed out previously...it would be hard to infer any reliability
>> statistics off this group as the relative numbers of each brand are
>> unknown. If, as I imagine, more people own Seadoos' you will see more
>> Seadoo problems mentioned.
>>
>
>Yamaha related posts than I do Sea Doo. But since I was actually
>thinking about buying a Sea Doo to replace my Yamaha for performance
>reasons, I have been reading every Yamaha *and* Sea Doo posting. I
>seldom if ever see postings about problems with Yamahas but I sure see
>LOTS and LOTS (no exaggeration) of problem reports with Sea Doo. There
>are more Sea Doos out there, I'm sure, but the amount of problem reports
>seems, TO ME anyway, to be WAY out of preportion to the numbers of Sea
>Doos vs Yamahas. On a very subjective basis (not objective,
>SUBjective), it does seem to me that Sea Doo owners are reporting lots
>more problems than do Yamaha owners, me inluded in the latter group.
Well as a Sea-Doo Speedster owner I should get two votes in this opinion
poll since I have to maintain two engines. Despite the horror stories
of Sea-Doo Jet boats, so far, the engines and the rest of the boat have
been trouble free....with one exception...the boat has lights - the
socket for the stowable stern light has a little rubber cover on it that
won't stay shut. But I'll blame that on Perko.
And just a note...My three closest friends have slightly modified, '94
Wave Radiers that can't get away from me.
Robb Baer
Scott Odle wrote:
>
> In article <31F79C...@ix.netcom.com>, r_b...@ix.netcom.com says...
> >
> >I've gone through two engines on my 96 XP. The reason
> >was the rev limiter was not functioning. Check to see that
> >yours is working. Mine does now.
> >
> >Regardless, if the Sea Doo is less relaible or not, I don't
> >like the way Yamahas ride. If you like getting tossed off all
> >the time, by a Raider. My XP has never tried to toss me.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I noticed the same tendancy in many pwcs but would still rather ride my raider,
> which has never "thrown" me (for no apparent reason). If you get tossed all the
> time by a raider maybee your not as good as you thought you were and need a
> lower performance PWC.
Seems to me the raider is lower performance. :)
robb
Paul R. Orton Jr.
Jerry Bransford <jer...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>After having read the jetski news posts this past year, my opinion of
>Sea Doo has gone from fairly favorable (fast and fun!!) to downright
>Sea-Doo problems I've been reading about here!!!
>
>--
>Jerry Bransford
>PP-ASEL, KC6TAY, C.A.P.
>The Zen hotdog... make me one with everything!
Jerry, as a former Seadoo Speedster owner I would never own another
Seadoo Product.. I'm not positive but I bet that Seadoo sqeezes out more
horsepower per C.C. than any other manufacturer. Hmm, could that be the
problem.
The above is only myl opinion.
Have a great day!
Paul Ray
J405
ERIC how right you are, I also own a 94 raider that is bone stock and it
absolutly screams. We ride at an area that has saltwater coves for miles,
of glass water, and WFO cruising and drag racing. Any way Ive raced every
boat out there and the raider stomps. Most 1100 raiders ive run Ive
smoked em outta the hole and 2000 yard later got passed less than a 1/2
MPH faster. The key to any 2 stroke engine is tuning and set-up A stock
boat tuned properly can perform up to 40% better than another stock boat
that was not set up Properly. So remember get an RPM gauge Start tweaking
those Hi And low speed screws and get that baby screamin rightcheously.
Also It should be mentioned that Yamaha has a vast, vast history of
engineering and development in the Field of 2 stroke engines from their
first inception to their current state. Because of this Yamaha has enjoyed
countless Formula one world championships . Yamaha is very capable of
producing some of the most devastatingly fast 2 stoke twins that have
ever roamed this earth,land or sea!!!!! The raider is a wolf in a sea of
sea doo sheep. Rotax, Bombadier Ha ,what the hell is that shit Lawn
equipment , chain saws? who would put a motor like that in a boat? Ha!!!
See doo, you guessed right , Damn those Sea Guys catch on Quick!
Scott Odle
Tim Earles
Howdy folks,
I really don't like all this bashing of Yam. and S-D but i have ridden
both extensively and my general opinion is that my 1100 raider is a
superior boat to the sea doo. That is my general opinion. I felt the
seadoo was a little wobbly at high speed on smooth water and it tended
to porpoise quite a bit on rough water. Both boats are incredible
machines and I'm happy to ride them both whenever i get the chance. The
only aftermarket parts added to my raider to date are an R and D grate
and an ocean pro plate. After these two add ons my boat carved turns
like i never imagined. It was also suggested to me to move my sponsons
one bolt forward, any raider riders out there who can confirm this is a
help or not? Later
Tim
Robb Baer wrote:
Conrad
Tim Earles wrote:
>
> Howdy folks,
>
> I really don't like all this bashing of Yam. and S-D but i have ridden
> both extensively and my general opinion is that my 1100 raider is a
> superior boat to the sea doo. That is my general opinion. I felt the
Too bad that PWI doesn't agree. They did a review comparing the raider
with the Seadoo GTX. The GTX blew away the raider in everything except
top speed. It accelerated better and handled better. In fact, they
did not really like the raider. They said something like if you really
need that extra mph then get the raider otherwise get the Seadoo, Kaw,
or Polaris. I am only passing along what I read in PWI.
Conrad
Bob Bowden
I'm sure PWI called it the venture, not raider... but hey... we all
still got the idea.
Jerry Bransford
I stopped by a local Sea Doo rental agency earlier this evening to try
and find a 'Doo so a friend of mine could ride with me in the Oceanside
to Mission Bay Muscular Dystrophy Charity Ride this coming weekend here
in San Diego. Half his rental fleet was down for repairs, the other
half was already rented, so no luck. When I asked about his Sea Doos
being down for repair and what he thought of their reliablity, he let on
that he isn't at all pleased with his fleet of Sea Doo's reliability.
His experience may not be every rental agency's experience, but he said
he's switching back over to Yamaha for the next rental season. He'll
keep his two newest Sea Doos for those that request them, but he's
switching the rest of the rental fleet back to Yamaha. According to
him, his experience has been nothing but continuous trouble for his
entire fleet of Sea Doos. Two of his 1995 Sea Doos have been out of
service more than they've been in service, for a loss of $5,000 each for
each lost month of rental. On the contrary, his previous experience was
with Yamaha (with NO problems) but switched over to Sea Doo two years
ago due to people wanting to rent them. He now says he shouldn't have
switched. He said that the Sea Doos are fast and fun, just not nearly
as reliable as other brands, especially in salt water, and especially
when compared to Yamaha. Since this thread is about reliability, I just
thought I'd pass along what this particular rental agency's experience
has been. For those of you that will say this guy doesn't take care of
his fleet, you should have heard him tell about his preventive
maintenance program...very thorough, went overboard on doing all he
could to try and keep his Sea Doos in service but he just became
overwhelmed. Again, he had Yamahas before, no problems with them. And
yes, I know I'll get all kind of Sea Doo owners saying I'm full of it,
but I'm just relating what a fleet operator told me.
slade_zapp
In article <31FF94...@GANet.NET>, Conrad says...
>
>Tim Earles wrote:
>>
>> Howdy folks,
>>
>> I really don't like all this bashing of Yam. and S-D but i have ridden
>> both extensively and my general opinion is that my 1100 raider is a
>> superior boat to the sea doo. That is my general opinion. I felt the
>
>Too bad that PWI doesn't agree. They did a review comparing the raider
>with the Seadoo GTX. The GTX blew away the raider in everything except
>top speed. It accelerated better and handled better. In fact, they
>did not really like the raider. They said something like if you really
>need that extra mph then get the raider otherwise get the Seadoo, Kaw,
>or Polaris. I am only passing along what I read in PWI.
>
>Conrad
I think you might wanna go re-read that article if you are speakin of the 96'
Models shoot out Vs. Raider 1100, ZXI 1100, Polaris and 96' XP (Top End SeeDoo)
Speakin for the Raider 1100.. Go check the Stats.. It took everyone out of
the hole all the way through top end. Yes, they did complain about people
getting bucked off but the only time that ever happend to me (95'Raider 11)
was when I first got the boat and going full throttle into a fairly large
size boat wake at a bad angle... Which I would call rider stupidity at that
stage in my game on this boat. With Power... demands respect.
I think Sea Doo makes a hell of a boat. I like their makeup and all.. Their
stock hull is very aggressive.. But I can't wait to see the 97'Line Up of
Blasters and Raiders..
Scott Odle
In article <31F90D...@ix.netcom.com>, r_b...@ix.netcom.com says...
>
>Scott Odle wrote:
>>
>> In article <31F79C...@ix.netcom.com>, r_b...@ix.netcom.com says...
>> >
>> >I've gone through two engines on my 96 XP. The reason
>> >was the rev limiter was not functioning. Check to see that
>> >yours is working. Mine does now.
>> >
>> >Regardless, if the Sea Doo is less relaible or not, I don't
>> >like the way Yamahas ride. If you like getting tossed off all
>> >the time, by a Raider. My XP has never tried to toss me.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Robb Baer
>>
>> I noticed the same tendancy in many pwcs but would still rather ride my
raider,
>> which has never "thrown" me (for no apparent reason). If you get tossed all
the
>> time by a raider maybee your not as good as you thought you were and need a
>> lower performance PWC.
>
>Seems to me the raider is lower performance. :)
>
>robb
Maybe in your dreams. I've ridden modified raiders that are alot faster than
than the SDs and it still handles better even at those speeds.
Conrad
Try keeping it apples to apples. If you are modifying the raider,
then the SD can also be modified, then your off on a whole other
thread. Stock to stock, the SD blew away the raider on every item
except top speed. Just read the mags and you shall see.
Conrad
AutoNthusd
>
>Try keeping it apples to apples. If you are modifying the raider,
>then the SD can also be modified, then your off on a whole other
>thread. Stock to stock, the SD blew away the raider on every item
>except top speed. Just read the mags and you shall see.
>
>Conrad
Even if this were true, this does not change the fact that the raider
"blows away" any Sea Doo when it comes to reliability, which is the
heading after all.
Ed
Scott Odle
In article <320799...@GANet.NET>, c...@GANet.NET says...
>
>Try keeping it apples to apples. If you are modifying the raider,
>then the SD can also be modified, then your off on a whole other
>thread. Stock to stock, the SD blew away the raider on every item
>except top speed. Just read the mags and you shall see.
>
>Conrad
Since when have the magazines been a reliable source of information. Do they
always use production boats? NO. You should put no more faith in the media
provided comparisons than you do your speedometer, which everyone knows is not
accurate.
Scott Odle
In article <320799...@GANet.NET>, c...@GANet.NET says...
>
>Try keeping it apples to apples. If you are modifying the raider,
>then the SD can also be modified, then your off on a whole other
>thread. Stock to stock, the SD blew away the raider on every item
>except top speed. Just read the mags and you shall see.
>
>Conrad
Try reading the post again. The question had to do with the handling at high
speed (the author stated that he did not like being thrown off for no apparant
reason). The comparison is valid since I was only speaking to the handling at
those speeds.
As for the magazines. Give us a break. Do they all use production boats and
make "apples to apples" comparisions? NO. You shouldn't put much more faith
in the magazines (unless you have done the research yourself) than in your PWC
speedometer, and we all know how accurate those are.
Steve Haley
If you get tossed off of a Raider then your probably leaning the wrong
way in the turns. Lean to the outside of the turn. (This is opposite from
a bicycle.)
--
The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of
Metro Machine Corp.
Steve Haley
Metro Machine Corp. P.O. Box 1860 Norfolk, Va. 23501
Voice (804) 543-6801 x344 Fax 494-0742
Sean Mustakas
Scott Odle wrote:
>
> In article <320799...@GANet.NET>, c...@GANet.NET says...
>
> >
> >Try keeping it apples to apples. If you are modifying the raider,
> >then the SD can also be modified, then your off on a whole other
> >thread. Stock to stock, the SD blew away the raider on every item
> >except top speed. Just read the mags and you shall see.
> >
> >Conrad
>
> always use production boats? NO. You should put no more faith in the media
> provided comparisons than you do your speedometer, which everyone knows is not
> accurate.
"As is our standard operating procedure, we picked up the craft we were going to test
at local dealerships. Of course we don't think anybody would deliberately cheat on a
test, but we don't want to tempt any of the manufacturers by using a boat supplied by
them." (from http://www.watercraft.com/9shoot1.html)
This quote was taken directly from the Personal Watercraft Illustrated 1996 3-Seater
Shootout. They may not really be telling the truth, but it seems to me you ought to
at least read what you are about to slam.
Sean M.
Scott Odle
In article <3209FB...@origin.ea.com>, smus...@origin.ea.com
says...
Did read it. While I agree that in most cases they would no
intentionally do something to make certain PWCs look better I still
would not base any research I was doing on PWC on what is printed in
magazines. There are just to many variables and the quote you cite goes
nowhere near satisfying all the potential questions and problems
associated with relying on them.
The best example is handling and "Fun" factor. I hope you wouldn't base
you choice of PWC on how other people to you it handled or performed.
T.K. Wei
auton...@aol.com (AutoNthusd) wrote:
>
> >
> >Try keeping it apples to apples. If you are modifying the raider,
> >then the SD can also be modified, then your off on a whole other
> >thread. Stock to stock, the SD blew away the raider on every item
> >except top speed. Just read the mags and you shall see.
> >
> >Conrad
>
> "blows away" any Sea Doo when it comes to reliability, which is the
> heading after all.
>
> Ed
Thank you,ED. I was just about to remind everyone what the topic of
discussion was supposed to be. I happend to be in the market for a
PWC as well and would like the know the reliability of these crafts
compared to each other since I've narrowed down to these two. So far
I've read from Yamaha owners about their crafts. What about the Sea
Doo owners? Which is more reliable?
Tony
John Seitz
"T.K. Wei" <trwe...@aol.com> wrote:
>Thank you,ED. I was just about to remind everyone what the topic of
>discussion was supposed to be. I happend to be in the market for a
>PWC as well and would like the know the reliability of these crafts
>compared to each other since I've narrowed down to these two. So far
>I've read from Yamaha owners about their crafts. What about the Sea
>Doo owners? Which is more reliable?
>Tony
I just thought I would jump in on this topic. I have a SeaDoo. I
have never had any other PWC, and I have only had one SD.
However..... I like the SD. Is it reliable? If you take card of it.
I baby my PWC. Check the oil, grease fittings, and other things you
should check for, every other time I go out with it. So that check
happens about twice to three times a month.
The only problem I had was that some asshole stole the drain plug from
the SD, and I lauched it. Needless to say, I got water in my engine.
Cleaned out the engine ( well the SD guy did that) and no problems at
all.
The moral. Take can of the equipment, and I think the equipment will
never leave you high or dry!
John
Bruce Holms
T.K. Wei wrote:
>
>
> Thank you,ED. I was just about to remind everyone what the topic of
> discussion was supposed to be. I happend to be in the market for a
> PWC as well and would like the know the reliability of these crafts
> compared to each other since I've narrowed down to these two. So far
> I've read from Yamaha owners about their crafts. What about the Sea
> Doo owners? Which is more reliable?
>
I have both a Yamaha and a Sea-Doo, both with the same types of mods.
Hands down the most reliable has been the Yamaha. (But I like the
Sea-Doo better!)
Conrad
T.K. Wei wrote:
>
> auton...@aol.com (AutoNthusd) wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Try keeping it apples to apples. If you are modifying the raider,
> > >then the SD can also be modified, then your off on a whole other
> > >thread. Stock to stock, the SD blew away the raider on every item
> > >except top speed. Just read the mags and you shall see.
> > >
> > >Conrad
> >
> > Even if this were true, this does not change the fact that the raider
> > "blows away" any Sea Doo when it comes to reliability, which is the
> > heading after all.
> >
> > Ed
>
> discussion was supposed to be. I happend to be in the market for a
> PWC as well and would like the know the reliability of these crafts
> compared to each other since I've narrowed down to these two. So far
> I've read from Yamaha owners about their crafts. What about the Sea
> Doo owners? Which is more reliable?
>
Sorry for getting off the subject earlier ...
I think it is rediculous for us to try to determine reliability by
just having individuals reply with their PERSONAL observations and
opinions. Without a formal survey, forget it! I know someone who
has a Raider and has had lots of problems, so I could conclude that
since my Seadoo HX is running great, Seadoo must be better.
Actually I like Seadoo better, but that does not make a difference.
My personal observation (as well as others) is worthless unless it
is tabulated from a large enough sample size. This Internet news
group is NOT a large enough sample size, so could we just kill
this thread. I know, I helped keep it going, but I promise I will
stop after this! :)
Conrad
'95 HX (now with Factory Pipe)