Help..An actual Sea Doo problem
Gregg Cohn
Oh boy Larry , you're gonna love this.....
I put my 96 XP in the water the other day. It had been running fine on
the trailer. It started fine in the water and I idled over to the dock.
Just as I reached the dock the engine stopped. No biggie I thought, it
is just cold. But when I went to restart it there was nothing. No noise
and I noticed the display had gone blank. So I pulled off the lanyard
and put it back on again and still nothing. No noise, no lights nothing.
Disgusted I pulled it back on the trailer and tried to start it again.
This time when I put the lanyard on I got the two beeps and the display
came on, but when I pushed start button all I get is this slight humming
noise. The battery has a fresh charge. I tried to turn engine over by
hand but it would not budge. So I went home. My friend went out on his
Yamaha SJ alone because my XP wouldn't start and guess what....his boat
messed up out in the ocean and he had to get towed in.(So let's not
start another Yam vs. Sea doo reliability thread 8-))(NEVER RIDE ALONE)
Back to my XP..... I pulled the pump off and found it perfect, the
engine itself is locked up. I put a wrench to the PTO and with just a
small bit of effort the engine turned over. It now starts and runs
fine. Anyone have a clue what went wrong? I am thinking that maybe
there is something hanging up in the starter....maybe some corrosion??
It has been cold and damp here in the California coastal mountains, but
I keep a light in the XP for heat and it only dipped barely below
freezing one night.
I can not have this happen to me in the ocean or I am in deep doo doo.
Any clues?
Gregg "get off the floor larry...it's not that funny" Cohn
grc...@cats.ucsc.edu
Santa Cruz, CA, USA
Gregg Cohn
Larry KN4IM wrote:
>
> geo...@mech.seas.upenn.edu ( George Jefferson ) wrote:
>
> >I dont know...sounds like an electrical gremlin to me. A bad starter
> >or solenoind shouldn't cause your dash disply to shut down.
> >The starter is a pain to pull, not to mention expensive - rule out
> >simpler stuff first.
>
> If the starter pinion were locked against the ring gear, it'd pull one
> helluva load on that tee-tiny doobattery. Probably more than enough
> to undervoltage the electronics into shutdown. He DID say initially
> NOTHING happened, no humm.
Yes no display, no lights, no beep nothing, nada....... I put the
lanyard on and off several times with nothing happening. I hope it is
the undervoltage thing....I hate electrical stuff!
> >
> >:The humming had to be the
> >:starter motor running without the pinion moving into mesh with the
> >:ring gear teeth.
> >
> >solenoid clicking and starter motor spinning up without engaging
> >are quite distinct sounds.
>
> IF the hull was closed, the 2nd time he tried it, an unmeshed starter
> would have sounded like a big bilge pump humming if it didn't mesh.
> Maybe he was listening to the 4000 gph bilge pump??
No the bilge pump runs off a 5 horsepower Briggs and Stratton! 8-)
Nothing was turning just a slight click first and then slight electrical
hum. It did sound like an electric motor that is stuck. The Lionel
lectric train noise.
> >
> >:Maybe the pinion isn't moving freely on the starter
> >:shaft so it can mesh properly. Pulling the starter will show you...it
> >:should move very freely into position.
> >
> >I've had that trouble with mine, just a little corrosion on the shaft and
> >it hangs up.
> >
> >
> Bingo!...we agree...Mom! Can I borrow the WD-40?
> Larry
Great!!!!!! Have you ever seen where the starter is on that motor.
Guess who's warranty ended last week?
Gregg "jess call me bloody knuckles" Cohn
Cana Scruz, CA, USA -a quainlt little town where you can't ride a pwc-
Larry KN4IM
Gregg Cohn <grc...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>Oh boy Larry , you're gonna love this.....
Tsk, tsk...
>
>I put my 96 XP in the water the other day. It had been running fine on
>the trailer. It started fine in the water and I idled over to the dock.
>Just as I reached the dock the engine stopped. No biggie I thought, it
>is just cold. But when I went to restart it there was nothing. No noise
>and I noticed the display had gone blank. So I pulled off the lanyard
>and put it back on again and still nothing. No noise, no lights nothing.
Did you hear the starter solenoid "click"?
>
>Disgusted I pulled it back on the trailer and tried to start it again.
>This time when I put the lanyard on I got the two beeps and the display
>came on, but when I pushed start button all I get is this slight humming
>noise. The battery has a fresh charge. I tried to turn engine over by
>hand but it would not budge. So I went home. My friend went out on his
>Yamaha SJ alone because my XP wouldn't start and guess what....his boat
>messed up out in the ocean and he had to get towed in.(So let's not
>start another Yam vs. Sea doo reliability thread 8-))(NEVER RIDE ALONE)
Reliability? This is the first Sea-Doo to ever break down!
(The devil made me type it)....(c;
>
>Back to my XP..... I pulled the pump off and found it perfect, the
>engine itself is locked up. I put a wrench to the PTO and with just a
>small bit of effort the engine turned over. It now starts and runs
>fine. Anyone have a clue what went wrong? I am thinking that maybe
>there is something hanging up in the starter....maybe some corrosion??
>It has been cold and damp here in the California coastal mountains, but
>I keep a light in the XP for heat and it only dipped barely below
>freezing one night.
I also have "starter" or "starter solenoid" on my mind. I could be
that your attempt to start it got the starter pinion locked on the
ring gear. Pull the starter and look carefully at ALL the teeth on
the ring gear. Any flat spots? Any warpage cause by those BIG HOLES
someone drilled in it to "lighten" it that may make the distance
between starter and ring gear open up? The humming had to be the
starter motor running without the pinion moving into mesh with the
ring gear teeth. Maybe the pinion isn't moving freely on the starter
shaft so it can mesh properly. Pulling the starter will show you...it
should move very freely into position. Damn starters are EXPENSIVE
for these little motors...A diesel starter for a 16 cyl stationary
engine is cheaper! Hope you can salvage yours...really!
>
>I can not have this happen to me in the ocean or I am in deep doo doo.
>Any clues?
>
>Gregg "get off the floor larry...it's not that funny" Cohn
>grc...@cats.ucsc.edu
>Santa Cruz, CA, USA
Started the big 650 VXR last weekend. Same old gas that was in it
last fall when I put 'er up. Cranked in about 2 seconds, probably
fuel pump had to pressurize her. Just let her warm a few seconds.
Smooooth... Didn't worry about "jet pump bearing overheat" either.
I'll shoot some WD-40 up into the impeller in the spring, just to lube
the pump...
Thanks for remembering me...(c;
Larry
George Jefferson
:So I pulled off the lanyard
:>and put it back on again and still nothing. No noise, no lights nothing.
:
:Did you hear the starter solenoid "click"?
:>
:>Disgusted I pulled it back on the trailer and tried to start it again.
:>This time when I put the lanyard on I got the two beeps and the display
:>came on, but when I pushed start button all I get is this slight humming
:>noise.
I dont know...sounds like an electrical gremlin to me. A bad starter
or solenoind shouldn't cause your dash disply to shut down.
The starter is a pain to pull, not to mention expensive - rule out
simpler stuff first.
:The humming had to be the
:starter motor running without the pinion moving into mesh with the
:ring gear teeth.
solenoid clicking and starter motor spinning up without engaging
are quite distinct sounds.
:Maybe the pinion isn't moving freely on the starter
:shaft so it can mesh properly. Pulling the starter will show you...it
:should move very freely into position.
I've had that trouble with mine, just a little corrosion on the shaft and
it hangs up.
Dr. Bob
Gregg Cohn <grc...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>Oh boy Larry , you're gonna love this.....
>I put my 96 XP in the water the other day. It had been running fine on
>the trailer. It started fine in the water and I idled over to the dock.
>Just as I reached the dock the engine stopped. No biggie I thought, it
>is just cold. But when I went to restart it there was nothing. No noise
>and I noticed the display had gone blank. So I pulled off the lanyard
>and put it back on again and still nothing. No noise, no lights nothing.
>Disgusted I pulled it back on the trailer and tried to start it again.
>This time when I put the lanyard on I got the two beeps and the display
>came on, but when I pushed start button all I get is this slight humming
>noise. The battery has a fresh charge. I tried to turn engine over by
>hand but it would not budge. So I went home. My friend went out on his
>Yamaha SJ alone because my XP wouldn't start and guess what....his boat
>messed up out in the ocean and he had to get towed in.(So let's not
>start another Yam vs. Sea doo reliability thread 8-))(NEVER RIDE ALONE)
>Back to my XP..... I pulled the pump off and found it perfect, the
>engine itself is locked up. I put a wrench to the PTO and with just a
>small bit of effort the engine turned over. It now starts and runs
>fine. Anyone have a clue what went wrong? I am thinking that maybe
>there is something hanging up in the starter....maybe some corrosion??
>It has been cold and damp here in the California coastal mountains, but
>I keep a light in the XP for heat and it only dipped barely below
>freezing one night.
>I can not have this happen to me in the ocean or I am in deep doo doo.
>Any clues?
Gregg:
Sounds like a bad connection at the battery. Before you get all fired
up and pull the starter and stuff, check the cables.
Diagnostic for this is a voltmeter between the positive battery
terminal and the starter lead. When you push the start button, you'll
see the voltage drop through all the wiring and the solenoid. If you
see a very big number, say more than a volt or so, start lookng for
cable problems. You can open the electric box and run the same test
on each section of wire, and on the solenoid itself. Should narrow it
down real easy.
You might also want to check the draw-down on the battery during the
start cycle. Do this before the test above. I have an old JS-550 I
keep just in case stand-ups get popular again. The battery in there
showed 12.4 static; even after the charger was on it for a while, the
starter would draw it down to 5 volts or so. Bad starter, you might
say, but it turned out to be a sulphated battery. New battery starts
it right up.
So don't panic. It's probably something real simple. Of course, I
always discover this -after- I do the expensive stuff. When will I
ever learn...
Oh, yeah-- put a coating of high-dielectric contact grease on those
battery terminals after you clean and reinstall the cleaned cables.
This keeps the battery fumes and salt water from getting into the
connections. FWIW.
Maybe it's not an actual sea-doo problem at all!
Good Luck!
dr bob
(not related to "the prince of darkness", aka "dr. midnight")
W.S. O'Neal
Gregg, I cannot point directly at the problem and know I would be right on
this one, but I think you may be thinking in the right direction with the
starter angle. Pull the starter, take it apart and clean it. Check for a
frayed lead coming from the brushes.(you didn't mention how many hours were
on the boat). As you use your equiptment in the ocean, check all grounds to
the ignition and the starter along with the fuses. Clean and lube the
bendix. The dash lights did not come on when you reinstalled the lanyard
because of the override in the system,(auto shutdown to protect the MPEM).
After a short period, it did work again. This is normal.
It sounds as though you may have lost a ground connection when you pulled
up to the dock.( I'm guessing here.) The part about the motor being locked
up, are you sure it was in fact locked up, or was it just hard to turn over
as they can be a bitch to turn by hand with the plugs in and coming up on
compression. The only other thing I can think of,off hand, is sometimes
when a mechanic takes the rotary valve cover off and puts it back on using
too much sealant it will lock up the rotary valve. But it will stay locked
up until you clean it out. You didn't mention any repairs or service
work.--
Bill @ E-MAIL: Water...@worldnet.att.net
Gregg Cohn <grc...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote in article
<32EE68...@cats.ucsc.edu>...
> Oh boy Larry , you're gonna love this.....
>
> I put my 96 XP in the water the other day. It had been running fine on
W.S. O'Neal
You bunch of cry babies, It takes about 5-10 minutes to pull a starter in a
1996 XP! Geez, maybe I shouldn"t have told you that!
Bill(I own the right tools) O'Neal
--
Bill @ E-MAIL: Water...@worldnet.att.net
Gregg Cohn <grc...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote in article
> Larry KN4IM wrote:
> >
> > geo...@mech.seas.upenn.edu ( George Jefferson ) wrote:
> >
> > >I dont know...sounds like an electrical gremlin to me. A bad starter
> > >or solenoind shouldn't cause your dash disply to shut down.
> > >The starter is a pain to pull, not to mention expensive - rule out
> > >simpler stuff first.
> > Larry
loba...@aol.com
In article <32EE68...@cats.ucsc.edu>, Gregg Cohn
<grc...@cats.ucsc.edu> writes:
> But when I went to restart it there was nothing. No noise
>and I noticed the display had gone blank. So I pulled off the lanyard
>and put it back on again and still nothing. No noise, no lights nothing.
I would suspect a loose connection somewhere. Either could either
be a positive or negative termination problem.
Laszlo
Lo-Ball Engineering
Larry KN4IM
geo...@mech.seas.upenn.edu ( George Jefferson ) wrote:
>I dont know...sounds like an electrical gremlin to me. A bad starter
>or solenoind shouldn't cause your dash disply to shut down.
>The starter is a pain to pull, not to mention expensive - rule out
>simpler stuff first.
If the starter pinion were locked against the ring gear, it'd pull one
helluva load on that tee-tiny doobattery. Probably more than enough
to undervoltage the electronics into shutdown. He DID say initially
NOTHING happened, no humm.
>
>:The humming had to be the
>:starter motor running without the pinion moving into mesh with the
>:ring gear teeth.
>
>solenoid clicking and starter motor spinning up without engaging
>are quite distinct sounds.
IF the hull was closed, the 2nd time he tried it, an unmeshed starter
would have sounded like a big bilge pump humming if it didn't mesh.
Maybe he was listening to the 4000 gph bilge pump??
>
>:Maybe the pinion isn't moving freely on the starter
>:shaft so it can mesh properly. Pulling the starter will show you...it
>:should move very freely into position.
>
>I've had that trouble with mine, just a little corrosion on the shaft and
>it hangs up.
>
>
Larry KN4IM
Gregg Cohn <grc...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote:
>Great!!!!!! Have you ever seen where the starter is on that motor.
>Guess who's warranty ended last week?
>
>Gregg "jess call me bloody knuckles" Cohn
>Cana Scruz, CA, USA -a quainlt little town where you can't ride a pwc-
Yecch...some idiot put the motor in cockeyed!...with the starter on
the BOTTOM! Looked in there today at Sea-Doo dealer. You're right,
it's gonna be a messy job. Mine's under the pipe monster. But, you
don't have to disassemble the whole boat! How stupid.
Larry
bubba
Larry KN4IM <spa...@useless.ads> wrote in article
<32eed7b5...@news.mindspring.com>...
> LARRY,
Did i read that right or was i dreaming????
You were at a sea-doo dealer ???????
Looking under the seat????
My god,Hell must be freezing over.
bubba
>
W.S. O'Neal
Bubba, In the last two days both Larry and Eric have shown signs of maybe
becoming the next Sea-Doo owners in this group. See, there is hope for
mankind yet!
bubba <bub...@erinet.com> wrote in article
<01bc0dc4$8310d200$3674...@bubba-g.erinet.com>...
Larry KN4IM
"bubba" <bub...@erinet.com> wrote:
>> LARRY,
> Did i read that right or was i dreaming????
> You were at a sea-doo dealer ???????
> Looking under the seat????
>My god,Hell must be freezing over.
> bubba
>
new SeaDoos on the floor, not GTX, ltd either. After hearing about
the starter, I wanted to see if I could see it. Why do their motors
look so rough, unfinished? The Kawas, Yamahas, etc look like they
care what the motor looks like. The SeaDoos look like the
transmission in my washing machine, even the same color! You'd think
for 8 Grand they'd polish the castings a little better for show. Love
the little cheap plastic parts on those RAVE gadgets. Don't these
plastic parts melt if you get a plugged up cooling intake that
overheats it?? Just curious.
Larry
George Jefferson
:You bunch of cry babies, It takes about 5-10 minutes to pull a starter in a
:1996 XP!
:
:Bill(I own the right tools) O'Neal
pulling it's not so bad - its the putting back thats hard.
Gregg Cohn
Gee thanx Bill. 8-)
Actually I haven't looked at how *easy* it is gonna be. My only
experience with starter removal is on my 90 Sea Doo. I did that one too
many times until I replaced stock unit with a Goki one. Not to tough a
job if you are a good contortionist!
Five to ten minutes sounds pretty long. I installed my Ultrac sponsons
in less time than that! (hehehe)
Gregg "Is that a 9/16 or a 1/2 inch? 8-D" Cohn
W.S. O'Neal wrote:
>
> You bunch of cry babies, It takes about 5-10 minutes to pull a starter in a
> 1996 XP! Geez, maybe I shouldn"t have told you that!
>
> Bill(I own the right tools) O'Neal
JASON BREMER
The comment on the rotary valve would be the way I would go personally.
I'm not a top notch machanic like Bill O'Neil but it just sound alot
like my HX did when a piston and ring assembly broke. My engine would
not turn over and it was at a World Qualifier race so I pushed my luck.
I got it to turn over by the starter but it then created more problems.
There was a chunk of piston or ring stuck in the rotary valve it spun
the metal from port to port. What let it give was the brass gear on
the rotary valve shaft. A couple of teeth on the gear gave loose so
the gear had to be replaced to.
Just my opinion,
Jason Bremer
Bye the way, I learned how to disassemble and reasemble a motor in a
week. Good timing for the first time and living in Iowa.
Gregg Cohn
W.S. O'Neal wrote:
>
> Gregg, I cannot point directly at the problem and know I would be right on
> this one, but I think you may be thinking in the right direction with the
> starter angle. Pull the starter, take it apart and clean it. Check for a
> frayed lead coming from the brushes.(you didn't mention how many hours were
> on the boat).
The boat has approx 35 hours on it.
> The part about the motor being locked
> up, are you sure it was in fact locked up, or was it just hard to turn over
> as they can be a bitch to turn by hand with the plugs in and coming up on
> compression.
It was definately locked up and wouldn't budge in either direction. But
once I put wrench to it the engine turned over easily. The boat is
running great now....I just don't want to have this *gremlin* return
when I try to start my boat after a lunch break out on the ocean.
> The only other thing I can think of,off hand, is sometimes
> when a mechanic takes the rotary valve cover off and puts it back on using
> too much sealant it will lock up the rotary valve. But it will stay locked
> up until you clean it out. You didn't mention any repairs or service
> work.--
It's a Sea Doo.....what are you talking about repairs? service? Ok it
had the 10 hour service, close to a year ago. It runs great now, so I
think that rules out the rotary valve. I think I will check all the
wiring and then pull the starter (for the fun of it)and check for any
corrosion. Fun, fun, fun! By the way, is that a 2 or 3 beer job? 8-)
Gregg
> Bill @ E-MAIL: Water...@worldnet.att.net
klkevin
Dr. Bob wrote:
> Oh, yeah-- put a coating of high-dielectric contact grease on those
> battery terminals after you clean and reinstall the cleaned cables.
> This keeps the battery fumes and salt water from getting into the
> connections. FWIW.
>
I'm sure this is going to sound like a dumb question, but what
kind/brands of grease qualify as high-dielectric? I've looked for it
but never found it.
I always spray them down with corrosion inhibitor. Does this have the
same effect?
--
Kevin
http://www.sky.net/~klkevin/
W.S. O'Neal
Jason, The rotary valve would not even be a consideration if I knew for
sure that the cover had not been removed prior to Greg's trip to the water.
But Greg did not mention that any work had been done, so I assume the
problem is either electrical or corrosion on the starter shaft/bendix.
It only takes 10 min to re-install the starter, and that's my 90 year old
grandma doing it.
--
Bill @ E-MAIL: Water...@worldnet.att.net
JASON BREMER <dbr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<5co837$b...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>...
W.S. O'Neal
It depends, My brother in law weighs 300+ lbs and it's a 3 beer job for him
just to go get the beer.
Gregg Cohn <grc...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote in article
<32EFC9...@cats.ucsc.edu>...
:
Dr. Bob
klkevin <klk...@sky.net> wrote:
Kevin:
The stufff I have is Dow Compound #5. It's a high flashover coating
for electrical contacts. This type grease is used for spark plug
wiring inside the plug and distrubutor boots to protect against water
and salt-water arcing. In the big-voltage electrical stuff like
medium-voltage switchgear (5kv to maybe 50kv) it's used to prevent
fatal corrosion in the primary connections.
Look at a good auto parts store for spark plug wire grease. It's the
stuff you're supposed to use on your Explorer plug wires. too.
Anyway, it keeps low-voltage connections clean and trouble-free. The
Sea-Doo manual I have recommends that all connections get a coating to
prevent corrosion. It is inexpensive, simple, and seems to do the job
just great. Works wonders on trailer wiring connections, too. Light
bulb sockets stay bright and shiny!
Good Luck!
dr bob
Corey Sullivan
In article <32EE68...@cats.ucsc.edu>, grc...@cats.ucsc.edu cyphers...
>Back to my XP..... I pulled the pump off and found it perfect, the
>engine itself is locked up. I put a wrench to the PTO and with just a
>small bit of effort the engine turned over. It now starts and runs
>fine. Anyone have a clue what went wrong? I am thinking that maybe
>there is something hanging up in the starter....maybe some corrosion??
>It has been cold and damp here in the California coastal mountains, but
>I keep a light in the XP for heat and it only dipped barely below
>freezing one night.
>
>I can not have this happen to me in the ocean or I am in deep doo doo.
>Any clues?
>
>Gregg "get off the floor larry...it's not that funny" Cohn
>grc...@cats.ucsc.edu
>Santa Cruz, CA, USA
Could this be the flywheel/ignition module in the flywheel cover problem?
Where the gears on the flywheels are knocked off the starter onto the electrical
module thingy within the flywheel cover... Ive seen this happen many times this
year. Mainly with boats that have Rossier pipes on it. Sea-Doo knows about this..
cuz my dad told them about it. Go figure... some old joe telling the big SD about
how problems are happening!!!
--
Corey Sullivan
rac...@aceinfo.com
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2017/
(For Sea-Doo and PWC enthusiasts)
(Features the only Used Sea-Doo Showroom on the WWW!)
