92 octane, what compression

[Cigarroach1]

Question, at what point is 92 octane or higher recomended? Lets say that the
stock Yamaha 1200 at aprox. 120 psi can run on 87 oct. If we were to up the
compression, when would we need to up the octane? 130?, 140? Is there a chart
to break this down for me? Thanks for any info........... Tom Roach

[Bryan Glynn]

Assuming all variables the same in your example, and you are only upping
compression, 155 is about the limit for 92.

"Cigarroach1" <cigar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010304162216...@ng-bk1.aol.com...

[bill]

compression have no effect to octane the real answer is on the ports and a
real compression radio not the psi you reed on the comp tester
is true if you rase the compression you have to race the octane the
question will bi you eng is port o not you timing squish band an real cc on
the domes

"Cigarroach1" <cigar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010304162216...@ng-bk1.aol.com...

[MR-HPT]

Tom call me I will help you out.
George Ski HPT Sport USA
270-898-2617

[Rick #614]

You can very comfortably go to 150 psi on a stock GP 1200 engine with 92
octane fuel. I raced a modified GP1200 and XL1200 for 3 years in offshore
endurance racing (i.e.: WOT for long periods of time) using fresh 92 octane
pump gas with no problems. The only thing I would be VERY wary of, is
removing the choke plates with the stock carbs. Without the choke plates
and the resulting restriction in the intake tract, the stockers have been
known to have a part throttle seizure problem that CANNOT be corrected by
jetting. I now run Red Top's and part throttled seizure is not a problem.

"Cigarroach1" <cigar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010304162216...@ng-bk1.aol.com...

[Bryan Glynn - SBT]

I've run with the chokes out for 3 years, with 150 psi, F/As, rejet, etc. -
with no such problem, nor have I ever heard that from anyone else running
with the same mods. Apperantly it's known to you, but not me, the rest of
the GP crowd, Riva, Pro-Tec, Group-K, etc.

--
Bryan Glynn
SBT IT Mgr. / Webmaster

_____________________________________________
For more accurate PWC Technical advice, head on over
to www.SBTontheweb.com and our new Forums!

"Rick #614" <race...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:sE0p6.136$CY.2...@news.pacbell.net...

[MR-HPT]

Rick if you cranking 150 lbs at Sea level your engine needs 95 octane fuel.
The only reason it has not gone to scrap pile is that you flooding it with
extra fuel, which in turn waists money and energy. I have yet to see fuel sold
by advertising cranking pressure.
Besides that, stock ignition on Yamaha cannot handle high CR ratio. This
information is based on my pesonal experiance, and hard enginiering data, it
has nothing to do with, hillbilly tuners, magicians, poets, carpenters,
carburetor paddles, or professors with PHD, MS and BSSSSSSSSSSSSS diplomas. LOL

George Ski HPT Sport USA

http://www.hpt-sport.com

[The_Giz]

You're amazing. First you claim to have multiple degrees. When that is
proved to be a blatant LIE you resort to making fun of those who DO have a
legitimate education. Is there anybody on this NG that you're NOT trying to
piss off?

You may be the best tuner/builder in the world, but your far too obnoxious
to ever be trusted with any of my equipment.

Giz

"MR-HPT" <hpts...@apex.net> wrote in message
news:3AA4E9C2...@apex.net...

[Bryan Glynn - SBT]

Sorry George, but I've been runing with 150 psi at sea-level to +400 for 3
years on 91-92 pump gas without problems. So have thousands of others,
using Riva, Pro-Tec and other's rec heads, that take cranking pressure to
150-155 psi.

--
Bryan Glynn
SBT IT Mgr. / Webmaster

_____________________________________________
For more accurate PWC Technical advice, head on over
to www.SBTontheweb.com and our new Forums!

"MR-HPT" <hpts...@apex.net> wrote in message
news:3AA4E9C2...@apex.net...

[Fagan Pace]

Wow, they may blow tomorrow but I've seen several old style gp's run
successfully( that means with the carbs tuned correctly LOL) for years
on 92 octane w/150# compression. Any more compression than that would
be suspect.

Fagan Pace

[MR-HPT]

Yap right Fagan. Show me a gage that reads with in 10 lbs accuracy. I love
to see you guys attempt to build say 125 cc shifter cart engine using
compression gage, where variation of 0.57 cc trapped volume equals 10 lbs
difference in cranking pressure and requires 8 octane increase in rating
of a fuel. What do you mean carbs tuned correctly? What is correctly tuned
carburetor Fagan?
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Bryan don't be sorry for me. Be sorry for poor sucker that cant figure out how
to use burette, and calculate corrected CR ratio. Them factory engineers must
bin thinking with their other head when they design engines and publish
corrected CR in their manuals. Are you telling me that you don't know how to CC
top end? I need to have a word with your employer.
GJG

[Bryan Glynn]

I didn't say anything about the factory engineers. My point is simple -
aftermarket companies market products that are safe, and publish certain
specs regarding said products. In the case of the Riva, Pro-Tec, etc. rec
heads, that are advertised as 'pump gas (91-92_ octane) safe, they are
designed, taking everything into consideration, to provide at MOST 150-155
(depending on brand) psi. That's with the BEST conditions. Obviously, if
you are riding with the same head in Colorado in 100 deg. (hey, it could
happen :) weather, it's not going to 150 psi, duh. But it's still pump gas
safe. Yes, I certainly know how to measure the volume of a top-end and
compute cr - that has nothing to do with my point. That point being, you
are wrong, in stating that a Yamaha 1200 with a cranking pressure of 150psi
needs 95+ octane gas! Tell me, how did you convert down to find the octane
requirement from the 150psi pressure?

"MR-HPT" <hpts...@apex.net> wrote in message

news:3AA5753A...@apex.net...

[Fagan Pace]

George, we're not building 125cc shifter karts. Correctly tuned carbs on
a gp1200 are the ones that pass VE 920's:)) Simple bolt ons don't always
have to be as complicated as you like to make them appear. There is a
time,place and need for the exacting type of tuning and building you
describe-just not every boat or every tuning or building question out
there.

Fagan Pace

[SUPERJET113]

The following is WAY out of line:

YAP YAP YAP!!! HPT Tiny Yapper starts again!! -
Easy Grandpa Prune puss, spit out those sour grapes!!!

OK, back to normal personality:

I may respect some of your technical and mechanical mastership sir, but your
disposition as the chief dignitary on this group is OUT of order!!!!
REGARDS!!!

[SUPERJET113]

The following is WAY out of line:

YAP YAP YAP!!! HPT Tiny Yapper starts again!! -
Easy Grandpa Prune puss, spit out those sour grapes!!!

OK, back to normal personality:

I may respect some of your technical and mechanical mastership sir, but your
disposition as the chief dignitary on this group is OUT of order!!!!
REGARDS!!!

[MR-HPT]

Fagan that is exactly my point. The reality is this. When engine is over
compressed it will survive but at the expense of economy. It dos not many
any sense to even consider cranking pressure at all. You know dog gone
really well that must gages do not read even close to each other and some
are 20 lbs off. Now lets suppose some one end up with gage that reads 15 lbs
lover then suggested in this NG, and runs down to local machine shop to
whack some stock off the head to bring pressure up with out any
consideration to squish, and by doing so screws up his engine. Is this
possible ? You bet, it happens more often then you think. Lets see, you bin
around long enough to realize that besides cranking pressure the are other
factors which need to be considered. Why not tech new comers to do it right?
What's wrong with you guys? Do you really believe that average person cant
grasp basic formula related to volumes and compression. I believe in doing
job right first time, instead of wasting money, and subject your engine to
wear end tear, for no other reason than stupidity based on cranking
pressures. I like to make money, but not at the expense of some one else's
ill advice.
I also believe that it is best to learn how to do job right way instead of
re learning screw ups late on in life. You have your opinion, and I have my.
Why should you be upset over my statement. Your opinion dos not concern me,
why is it that you should worry about my answers? Dog gone, if you go to
put out fire, do you apply less energy to small flame then big one? Come on
get real.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

So what you saying is that you know effects of the CR ratio and yet you think
that minimizing education will produce better results? When you ship finished
product do you specify cranking pressure, or volume? Did you ever see any
gasoline advertised using cranking pressure? I say one more time. IF STOCK OEM
CYLINDER YAMAHA 1200 ENGINE OPERATES ON 91-92 OCTANE FUEL CRANKING 150 PSI USING
LAB TYPE GAGE AT SEA LEVEL AT 60 DEGREE TEMPERATURE AND BAROMETER READING 30
INCHES. THEN IT IS WASTING LOTS OF ENERGY AND MONEY SPECIALLY AT HIGHER
ALTITUDE. AND IF CARBURETED CORRECTLY THEN IT COULD LOOSE CYLINDER WHEN GOING
THROE SHARP TURNS. The only reason Yamaha engine survives over compression is
because it is blessed with the weakest ignition on market. My research indicates
that spark plugs actually miss fire under heavy load due to low amperage
ignition. PS I have yet to see after market head designed to be spot on, in
volume, CR ration, and Squish velocity. Must of them re inventing the wheel.
Many engines run very well on properly reworked stock head. In fact must after
market heads screw up cooling of the cylinders and create huge problems. The
only time I use after market head is when I cannot get volume low enough for my
engine design.

George Ski HPT Sport USA
http://www.hpt-sport.com

[daniel barmes]

George how did you figure out that the misfire was caused by low amperage??
MR-HPT wrote in message <3AA5D07F...@apex.net>...

[Bryan Glynn]

So then, what you are saying, is that you have first-hand experience, like I
and many others on here do, with a Yamaha 1200, with stock, Riva and Pro-Tec
heads, and with the stock and Riva higher-output ignitions? And you also
know what the specs are on the Pro-Tec head I'm running right now? Let's do
a test - post what specs you have observed with a Pro-Tec rec 150psi head,
and then I'll post what mine is actually at.

And I'll tell you what - I've ridden that last 100 modified hours on my
Yamaha 1200 at 400 ft., in less than 60 deg. weather (Michigan), with a
cranking oressure of more than 150psi, measured with a Snap-On gauge, on 91
octane, and takes HUNDREDS of hard turns. OOPS - no problems. And guess
what - it was not due to your ignition theory - I've been running with a
high-output Riva ignition on most of those hours.

"MR-HPT" <hpts...@apex.net> wrote in message

news:3AA5D07F...@apex.net...

[MR-HPT]

Danel by observing actual cylinder combustion. Yes I have the means to visually
see it. Yamaha system uses low voltage high amperage charging system. This means
that condition of battery determines the input amperage to the CDI system.
Slight changes in input results in huge changes at the output.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Engines do not give dam about tuners personality or his disposition. It is easy to
accuse men of any thing, but it's another story to prove it. I have yet to see any
one proving me wrong. Are you one of them tuners who enjoys poetry, promote seizures,
and sing happy song running straight to the bank? I REFUSE TO ROLL IN MUD WITH PIGS.
PLEAS STICK TO TECHNICAL QUESTIONS.
GJG

[Fagan Pace]

George. first it's the engines won't survive-- now it's they survive
because of a weak ignition:)) You can theorize-measure-huff and puff to
the cows come home but Bryan -myself and many many others all over the
country have seen countless gp1200's run endles hrs @ 150# compression
on 92 octane fuel with a riva ignition no problem. Sorry peoples
successes upsets you so. How do the GPR's survive 150#? They have an
ignition that will knock your butt in the dirt roflmao!

Fagan Pace

[MR-HPT]

Fagan this is far cry from stock configuration. I'm not suggesting that
avery Yamaha is going to blow up. But I do say that many do and you to have
had your hands fool of problem. There is a huge different between running
straight lines and doing hard turns. Why do you think so many Yamaha's did
not even finished racing when GPR 1200 first came out? Out of 10 machines
on the race course 6 went home with busted engines and rest got lapped.
How did we got to this point? This tread started with stock engine and 150
lbs cranking pressure, now we talking about after market ignitions, heads
and tuners who know what to do. Fagan you can fool others but I know that
you do not run pump fuel.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Bryan you fool of it. This tread started with stock OEM engine running on pump
fuel so call 150 lbs cranking pressure. Now we talking after market heads,
ignitions and probably carburetors. I suggest that you pick up your tool box,
and move to Pro Tec. I'm sure Greg is not very happy with your advertisement. Be
my guest, take stock OEM Yamaha put it on your CNC machine mill it what ever
dimensions you like, as many times as necessary to read 150 lbs pressure on your
super accurate gage. Then come on up to Paducah I will fill it up with pump fuel
and take it throe the ringer. I guaranty you will go home with busted engine.
GJG

[Fagan Pace]

Bryan is not full of it George, he's telling it like it is. It's pretty
sad when you resort to what I hear you did to try and win an argument
your dead wrong about.

Fagan Pace

[Fagan Pace]

George, not trying to fool anyone about my gp running pump gas- it did
not- I ran 100ll avgas but also ran #165 compression-ported cylinders-
riva ignition-buckshot carbs etc.. No where have I said my boat ran #150
or pump gas. I stated I have seen countless gp's do it successfully and
that's exactly what I meant. I am however running straight pump gas in
my gpr with excellent results. w/#150 cranking compression:))

Fagan Pace

[Chris E]

i think that many here, on this thread, have proved you wrong.

fagan and others and attested that gp's with 150 compression are running 92
octane gas.

you are just to much of an arrogant prick to admit you are wrong and that
all of your formulas (which i am sure you havent the slightest idea of how
they were derived) are not worth a shit on this subject.

chris

MR-HPT <hpts...@apex.net> wrote in message

news:3AA62E6E...@apex.net...

[MR-HPT]

Bull Fagan. Next thing you going to tell me that Yamaha never brakes. Come
on men, it all started as OEM machine and you guys turning it in to over
blown crap. If you care to find out how many Yamaha engines seizing. Ask
Bill why Miller designed head domes for easy piston replacements. PS show
me one friking after market head that is designed better then stock.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

And you using stock ignition right? Did I said that avery engine is going to
blow up? NO.
What I said is that posting cranking pressure has no merit what so ever. The
difference between me and you guys is obvious. You do not give dam about
seizures and I do. Telling new comer about cranking pressure is like telling
him to jump off the cliff. If you guys are so darn smart why don't you post
a chart on cranking pressure versus octane reading. Better yet, submit it to
SAE, you may be awarded biggest price in stupidity of the history of the two
stroke engine designs.
That is all. Take it to e mail or call me.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Chris this "prick" has designed more engines then rest of the arrogant pricks on
this ng. Next SAE meeting I will tell Dr Blaire and rest of my friends that they
just plain stupid and wasting their time working with formulas. If you so dam
smart why don't you revolutionize this industries. Grab your pressure gage and
come on down to, SAE meeting, we will be glad to learn some thing new.
GJG

[Fagan Pace]

George this is about running #150 lbs compression on a stock yamaha
1200. nothing more nothing less

Fagan Pace

[KillerGPR]

I ran my GP1200 for two years without a seizure using 93 octane fuel. Cranking
pressure was 155 lbs using stock head reworked by Tn chop shop as the newsgroup
jerk calls them. I never had any problem until I ran out of fuel on the lake
and bought Marina fuel to try to get home. The boat then seized in 15 mins.

[Ronnie]

Why would anyone with a mod boat use marina gas? Why would you even
have someone that had never even worked on a Yamaha of any kind modify
your boat? Why would you ride out of reach of your good gas? You
deserve to seize and have problems and get ripped off after STILL
promoting that sorry chop shop sob.

[SUPERJET113]

The self-proclaimed rec.sport.jetski dignitary has yapped himself to a blown
head gasket again. Better go to Wal-mart and get some High Performance
Tampons!! LOL!!!
Hard to take isn't it? When will you ever learn George? You claim you are
here to cast out all the pressure gage tuners, seizure promoters, and general
dipsh*ts, all to save the "newbies" and everybody else here from being sucked in
to a endless money pit of mis-knowledge. When will you come down off the high
hobby horse? I may respect some of your technical and mechanical mastership,
but you attitude is WAY OUT OF ORDER!!! Oh yeah, and you post way to much, what
else to you do besides post all day and night?

Dan, you need to post that pic again on ABPJ!! Cause I need a copy!

MR-HPT(self-proclaimed dignitary of RSJ)wrote:

[Albrightlane]

Ronnie, You are just like George, always trying to stir s^&*(. Well F409 you
and your big mouth. You sure as the devil are not an authority on anything
reguarding performance. I give credit where credit is due. Im so glad you are
perfect and never do anything silly or foolish like try to get home when you
have miscalculated your fuel. J.M.

[MR-HPT]

Well smart mouth. Tell me this. What octane fuel is needed in 440, 550, 650, 701,
750, 920 and 950 cc engines if they all cranking 150 lbs at same speed, reading same
leak down factor. When you get throe scratching your head, tray to find fuel
distributor that sells fuel according to cranking pressure. How stupid one cab be?
Very stupid indeed.
IF YOU THINK EDUCATION IS EXPENSIVE, TRY IGNORANCE.
You must be one of them carpenters who hit roofing nail 3 times. LOL
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Ronnie don't waist your time, on this brainless drunkard. I said long time
o go that his mind is gone. According to his own post two weeks o go his
engine never seized. David's Ultras cranked safe pressure according to
experts on this NG. In process he nearly lost two engines, not to mention
over $ 2 K fixing screw ups inflicted by pressure gage experts.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Tom by now you must be totally confused. My advice to you, is this: Do not listen
to people who talk about gages and cranking pressure. Do not walk but run o way
from such. Pressure gages do excellent job on welding equipment, air
compressors, inflating tires, and many other functions. The only thing cranking
pressure is good for on your engine, is to let you know that your engine is
terminally ill if pressure drops 20 lbs or more between cylinders. Learn how to
do a visual inspection, do not become statistic of the CHOP SHOP TUNERS AND THEIR
FOLLOWERS. Go to my web page read CHOP SHOP documents. This is what happens to
people who have their engines designed using cranking pressure.

George Ski HPT Sport USA
http://www.hpt-sport.com

Tel 270-898-2617

[Rick #614]

George, I used to be an avid reader and occasional contributor to this news
group. I got away from it because of just this kind of diatribe and the
inevitably name calling that ensues. This poor guy just wanted to know how
much one could increase compression safely while using 92 octane. Most
people reference an increase in compression in terms of psi as determined
by performing a cranking compression test. Most people also know that
increasing compression requires detailed engineering calculations to
properly reshape and reduce combustion chamber size to achieve the desired
result or C/R. Most people have the modifications to their existing head
done by a professional like yourself or purchase an aftermarket head. In
both cases the detailed engineering is performed by someone else.

I believe that you would have to agree however that in both cases the
easiest way to measure and verify the results of the modification is by
checking cranking pressure with an accurate compression gauge. I know that
numerous variables affect the results in some cases however, most of the
time the results of increasing the compression ratio will increase the
cranking pressure. I think of this test as nothing more than a guide and
verification that there aren't any other problems that I may not have been
able to identify during the r&r of the head. In other words, if I install
my modified head on my 1200 and I get cranking compression readings that
vary significantly from my expected 150psi or between cylinder and cylinder,
I know I have a problem that needs to be investigated and corrected. I just
consider it a "retest" if you will, that indicates that the detailed
engineering calculations and careful machine work have been done correctly.
It also provides a "rough" baseline for comparison during future.

My post was generic on purpose because of the assumptions described above.
Additionally, I noted a problem with the carburetion of this particular
engine that has caused many more seizures than overly aggressive increases
in compression.

By the way, as for your "comments" regarding masking problems with a weak
spark or "flooding it with extra fuel", I run a Riva CDI and my fuel burn
is only 14.5 gph . Considering that 14.5 gph is the burn rate of a stock GP
1200 according to Yamaha's own documentation, I don't think I'm floodin'
it. When you also consider the boat will radar at over 65 mph in race trim
and ran like this for over 150hr of race, test and recreation riding with
ZERO problems, that ain't bad. Just ask my competition. LOL

In closing, let me just say, "lighten up". From your "hillbilly tuners,

magicians, poets, carpenters, carburetor paddles, or professors with PHD,
MS and BSSSSSSSSSSSSS

diplomas" friend.

Ride hard and ride safe,
Rick #614

"MR-HPT" <hpts...@apex.net> wrote in message

news:3AA795A3...@apex.net...

[Albrightlane]

Any thread you get involved in is nothing but a bunch of trash when you get
through with it. Why do you not see how everyone despises you. You are
ruining the newsgroup with your name calling and filthy mouth.

[Albrightlane]

George, Why dont you stop posting your garbage. No one cares what you have to
say with all your bullshit formulas. The boy wanted to know if it was safe to
run a GP1200 at 150 lbs cranking pressure. THE ANSWER IS SIMPLY YES. Several
of us have done it . Fagans and my GP1200 outran all the junk you built both
of them were 150+ lbs. So take you junk information somewhere else. And they
ran, and ran and ran. Pal do not listen to George if you check back through
the previous postings you will see he is at odds with everyone on the news
group. Always calling everyone names that does not agree with him, etc etc.

[MR-HPT]

Rick, what is your point?. Putting it simply. I disagree with you and any one
that even mentions cranking pressure, there are many variables which effect
cranking pressure. Judging by the intelligent part of your response, you know
exactly what I mean. Post of this nature dos not promote knowledge, it leads
people back in to dark age. It promotes illiteracy regarding engine design and
modifications, it rubs people from money which must do not have to blow o way on
experimenting with gages, and re educating screwed up wana be tuners, worst off
all it inflicts damage to professional tuners, and after market companies. Avery
high school student should be able to learn how to use burret, and basic
compression formula. Like I said be for. I pity tuner who picks up type of
techniques described by you. And I feel sorry for poor sucker who attempts to
modify his head using pressure gage. To make long story short. Go to my web
page, read document CHOP SHOP. This is what people like you promoting, and this
will never fly in my book. Don't under estimate power of reason, there are many
people who are capable of reading between the lines, and see the light, these
are the one that I welcome in my shop. That is why I stick around, roll in dirt
with scum bags, promote education, and make life miserable for pressure gage
tuners. What ever it takes I will get my point true. If you wish to promote
quality and education, you are my kind of person. If not, then we have nothing
left to talk about.

George Ski HPT Sport USA
http://www.hpt-sport.com

Tel 270-898-2617

[MR-HPT]

You got it all wring lover boy. The idea is to save people from blowing up their
engines, nothing more, and nothing less. Go take a very good look what you have
bin promoting for past two years. http://www.hpt-sport.com Click on CHOP SHOP. As
long as you even mention my name you will receive what you deserved.
GJG

[SL(SeaLion)]

Well Jim was actually talking about his GP1200 and not the GP1200R in
this thread. You are thinking it's his GP1200R and I thought you were
going to quit the b.s. as you statet a week ago ?

[MR-HPT]

I told you be for and I'm telling you again. Skip my post and don't get in to
personal crap.
As long as this brainless dude continues to use my name I will respond to his
accusations.
SL be a good boy find some one else to voice your opinions to. Your comments
seize to interest me.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Jim do you wish to start another bed mouthing tread? You got me confused with
your pals. I did not start any name calling. I only responded with double
portion to filth which came from you and them. Who is this avery body that you
talking about? You and couple self proclaimed expert tuners who have their
wings clipped posting bogus data and luring people in to CHOP SHOP net. Now if
you have something useful to say, say it. If not get ta hell out of my way.
GJG

[Ronnie]

No that would be you who stirs shit all the time on this NG. I go away for
a few weeks and everytime I come back here you are into something else. You
wanna run that mouth all the time then be prepared to face the
repercussions! Based on past decisions...........you just aren't that wise
of an old man are you? And STILL defending the biggest dumbass of them all
Mr. chop shop. Why didn't you just get him to mod your boat ol' wise one
since he did soooo good with your old GP?
Don't get so uptight Jim..........its all fun and games.
Ronnie

"Albrightlane" <albrig...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010309002321...@ng-fa1.aol.com...

[Fagan Pace]

George, your missing the point- this is a public forum, not your private
domain and differing opinions right or wrong are what this is all about.
America is built on free speech whether the information suits your
opinions or not. If you don't agree with whatever info is offered why
not state your opinion and differing viewpoint and move on rather than
being so damn overbearing.

Fagan Pace

[MR-HPT]

Name calling originated with you and your pals at Bird Song. Cranking pressure has
no value what so ever in engine modification procedure, it pores out from the mouth
of the ignorant person who cant read basic compression formula, and apply it using
basic instrument such as burret. I do not build junk I just weed it out. I promise
you that you and your CHOP SHOP pals will never again deceive any one.
For those who are wandering what I'm talking about, pleas go to my web site click
on ENTER and read document CHOP SHOP. This is what this dude and his friends
represent.

George Ski HPT Sport USA
http://www.hpt-sport.com

[MR-HPT]

Yes Jim they run and run and run, on AV 100 gas, after market ignition and
carburetors. And yes they twisted cranks, separated spindles, and destroyed
flywheels just like avery other crap in your group.
GJG

[SL(SeaLion)]

Actually you never told me before. It must have been one of the dozen or
more other guys you said that to and must be difficult on your part to
keep track with so many. Nothing wrong with you responding, but I was
just pointing out that you were out of context. Once again, what does
him saying that his previous ski a GP1200 seized and you infer that his
GP1200R seized. Not that it matters to me but I was just trying to
straighten out the misconception you had. I have gotten on Jim's case
before in other matters and being the fair person that I am, I will give
credit where credit is due, such as this case of mistaken seizure of a
GP1200 instead of a GP1200R. I just saw the thread going in the wrong
direction again so I clarified what was posted.
Also, you definitely will not tell me to not voice my opinion in a
public forum. YOU don't like, YOU don't read it. I'm not into playing
power trip games and I don't need the self gratification of always
thinking I'm right so let's just leave it at that.

[Fagan Pace]

George. you know quite well it was my boat running #165 compression with
no rev limiter that broke not twisted the crank- it was not Jim's #150
pump gas boat. Don't mind you telling stories as long as tell the facts
not some distorted version to try and bolster your errant point. I don't
care for the chop shop mods any more than you but let's not get carried
away w/ BS and lose what credibility you've built in that area.

Fagan Pace

[Albrightlane]

If you think for one minute I would look at that crap you call a web page you
are nuttier than I thought. Just like your stupid picture downloads it is just
Georges own Hate Page from what you say about it here. No thanks. Knowing
the type person you are I will not waste my time. I also recommend to the
others here not to be deceived by the bias trash you write.

[Albrightlane]

You and I know that, Its George that dosen't. Are you going to jetstream? If
so I will look forward to racing your speeding bullet. Dogone that mabe my
next screen name. SpeedingBullet. JM

[Albrightlane]

George, You are lying again. No twisted cranks, No siezes, No seperated
spindles, No destroyed flywheels. Tell the truth or keep on lying. We all
know you just post to glorify yourself. Tiny Yapper Hot Puff TOOT TOOT

[Albrightlane]

Concerning My GP1200R, I am doing the work on assembling and have directed the
building of the engine and am using the best people available for what I wish
to achieve. If you wish to refer to me as a chop shop drag anything you have
or have built out and I will suck you up my exhaust , You will see nothing but
spray from the rear of my boat. FOR THE BENIFIT OF THOSE WHO READ THIS, REST
ASSURED IM NOT BRAGGING, IM JUST CHALLENGING THIS OLD HAS BEEN TO PUT UP OR
SHUT UP. I DONT NEED HIS MONEY ON A BET.I SIMPLY CHALLENGE HIM TO A RACE HE
CANNOT WIN. My tuner will remain annomious unless he wishes to disclose
himself.

[Doug Donoris]

> IF YOU THINK EDUCATION IS EXPENSIVE, TRY IGNORANCE.
> You must be one of them carpenters who hit roofing nail 3 times. LOL
> GJG

You always show us all how costly ignorance can be.

[Ronnie]

If you went N for a tuner then its the best decision you ever made.
Should have done it in the first place. He is good.

[Ronnie]

Maybe not JetstreamFest but I will surely be at LaGuardo as soon as
spring hits. I have a stock carb bullett that will run all over the
lake and will carry a twelve pack. :)

[Rick #614]

My point is, I pretty much agree with what you are saying, increasing
compression should be done by professionals. With their calculations and
experience, they can safely perform the modifications. Cranking pressure
change is only the result of such a modification.

"MR-HPT" <hpts...@apex.net> wrote in message

news:3AA8D77E...@apex.net...

[barry prokop]

here we are again , same ol fuckin place, different subject ! listen to me
close all you dum fuckers , do you think that high octane fuel is some thing
that a major manufacture came up with just for jet skis ??? wrong!! high octane
has been around for years , before you guys could even breath, it's cr's!!! not
cmpression gauge get a fuckin book on anything highperformance that been
pubished years ago and see for yourself!!
you guys are fucking DUMMMMM!! barry

[Mark Mahoney]

Tom,
All these stupid posts and not one answer to your question, unfrickinbelievable.
It's safe to say that without getting overly technical, you can run 150 lbs.
compression and still use 93 octane. I have yet to meet anyone that has seized
their motor for just that reason. I've been running (yes, heads done by Kerry) my
heads at 165 lbs for over 120 hours with no seizures from compression. I've had 4
rebuilds and bunches of pistons replaced but each time it was something
stupid....eg, leaves sucked up in head, wire tie caught under carb, water
strainer break open and flood carbs with water, etc, etc...
I'm not recommending that you go any higher than 150lbs on 93 octane, simply
telling you what has worked for me. I know a few that had problems but you
shouldn't put a wrench into someone that is totally mechanically uninclined.

Mark

[Albrightlane]

Good deal, See you down there.

[Bryan Glynn]

I answered him... <sniff>

"Mark Mahoney" <mmm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3AA98ED1...@earthlink.net...

[Mark Mahoney]

Okay, one...LOL, so sorry Bryan, didn't mean to hurt your feelings....lol.
I was just trying to make the point that though there is much more than just
compression to be considered, the answers became far too complicated for what
the poor guy wanted.... any aftermarket head manufacturer would have told him
that it's safe to run 150 lb compression with 93 octane.
And for anyone that wants to rebutt that, show me just ONE, only ONE aftermarket
head manufacturer that says otherwise....

Mark

[Albrightlane]

Mark, I think George of Backyard Heads would probably disagree with you. LOL
Jim

[SUPERJET113]

AMEN BROTHER!!!!! HPT relax bro!!

Rick #614 wrote:

[MR-HPT]

Fagan I do not need lesson in freedom. I lived on booth sides of is. Next
time some one starts to bitch about my post, just remember what you said.
Thank you.

[MR-HPT]

You got that one right.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Mark did you swallow stupid pill or something else? Show me one manufacturer that
stamps cranking pressure on their product. You want to see your body's handy work?
Go to http://www.hpt-sport.com
Look at the results of cranking pressure specialist. Talk to Ronnie, Larry and
David.
Mark I suggest you get some fresh air, that dam paint job is effecting your brain.
Avery manufacture prints corrected compression, dog gone hillbillies creating new
pressure gage law.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

I have no problem relaxing. Tell it people who end up spending several thousands
of dollars fixing screw ups by pressure gage mechanics. Prevention of destruction,
that's what this is all about.
Go to http://www.hpt-sport.com read CHOP SHOP document. Talk to Ronnie, Larry and
David, you find out how relaxed they are.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

That is correct. Real problem begins when person dos not realize that cranking
pressure is effected by host of other factors, such as Relative Air Density.
Design and accuracy of the pressure gage. Mechanical condition of the engine. I
have seen to many engines butchered by pressure gage tuners, that is why I spent
so much time warning others to run o way from this type of practice. Take a
look at my web site you will see what I'm talking about.
http://www.hpt-sport.com
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Fagan I never seen your crank and I'm not talking about your machine.
Actually I was referring to one that sits on my bench right now. I know that
you more then qualify to tune your Yamaha, no question about it. You are one
and only sharp hillbilly I ever seen in rat group. LOL
GJG

[MR-HPT]

That is correct. Very costly yes sir extremely costly. See it on my web.
http://www.hpt-sport.com
read CHOP SHOP documents.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

All right, you asking for it. James, David, Larry, Ronnie, Father and son team,
and who know how many more, shafted really good, not to mention wasted money
and aggravation. Do you deny it?
GJG

[Mark Mahoney]

George,
Don't start your fucking bullshit with me. Call ADA, Cold Fusion, Bill O'neal, Riva,
ProTec, ANYONE, I mean ANYONE and simply ask if they use their products and raise
their compression to 150lbs if they think it is safe to run 93 octane.
Under NORMAL circumstances, not ONE will say no.

Get real and quit over analyzing everything, the guy simply wanted to know if he
raised the compression a little, what octane would he have to use. You know damn well
that he probably will go get a Pro Tec or Riva head or whatever and the bottom line is
under NORMAL conditions he could use 93 octane with 150lbs of compression.
And as far as Kerry's handy work, I didn't tell a lie, I've got 126 hours on my ski, I
put his heads on at 6 hours with 150 lbs of compression and at 35 hours, I used his
heads with 165 lbs of compression. I've measured the squish and it was in line with
what YOUR own data specs said in an article YOU wrote. I've never had a failure from
his heads. Failures from stupid shit, maybe, but not from his heads.
Perhaps I got lucky but I don't give a shit, the bottom line is it worked for me.
You know, for a supposed Christian fellow, you sure are fast to throw out the first
insult, friends or not, you are definitely not selective who you attack.
Go back and reading your fucking response to me and tell me one reason why I shouldn't
be a little pissed.
Have a nice fucking day!

Mark

[Albrightlane]

For your information George. The Morris's have no problem with the afore
mentioned chop shop. If you dont believe it call them. Lier, Lier.

[Fagan Pace]

George, that's why I think it so important that you step back and
examine the whole overbearing- domineering tone of your posts. It's so
reminiscent of the very type of people that you fled when you came to
the US. Just a bit of tolerance on your part -not necessarily agreement
would go a long long way.

Fagan Pace

[SL(SeaLion)]

Can you read and comprehend? I never said anything about CR, fuel or
octane requirements. I think you replied to the wrong person because you
replied to my post and make no sense whatsoever replying to what I
posted.

Signed, "DUMMMMM" enough to at least read and comprehend

[Carolina Watercraft Works, Inc.]

I think that you misinterpret the issue of the gauge here. Most don't
calculate their own ratio but instead use a gauge to measure their own
psi in order to compare with others that have figured out the ratio.

--
Laszlo Almasi
Carolina Watercraft Works, Inc.
2104 Langdon Road
Raleigh, NC 27604
loba...@mindspring.com
"barry prokop" <bp0...@navix.net> wrote in message news:3AA987CC...@navix.net...

[Kelly Matchett]

My, you've crossed over. Welcome to the dumb hillbilly club! Great group
of George supporters we have here, isn't it. LOL
Kelly

[Albrightlane]

The real problem is George does not know the difference between a GP1200 and a
GP1200R. The GP1200 siezed one time, My fault. The GP1200R has never seized
can you understand that, can you read that and understand it. Duhhhhhh.
Jim

[Super Jett]

I really wish you'd quit changing your e-mail address and getting through my
filter.

"Albrightlane" <albrig...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010310191801...@ng-mg1.aol.com...

[SL(SeaLion)]

LOL, I'm proud to say I am "DUMMMMM". At least I am not dumb.

[Mark Mahoney]

George,
The content of this thread has nothing to do with the question that was originally asked so
I'm dropping it.
I'm not sure what you meant about David but as far as talking to anyone in person in that
tone, who are you kidding, you think I wouldn't? You're not that naive....
And as far as me dishing out crap your way, I never said anyone to or about you, I responded
to the original question and you responded with some bullshit about me sniffing paint and
eating a stupid pill, etc... I'm not even gonna go there...
End of this discussion....

Mark

MR-HPT wrote:

> What hell you think this is Nazi Germany? You guys dish out crap my way and I'm suppose to
> pretend like nothing happens? There you go little pisser, take close look at your body's
> handy works. Talk to David in person like you talking to me, you will go home twice as
> short. Dam get some fresh air dude, your fricking brain is running on same waive length as
> the old retarded Milliken.
> GJG

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Image] [Image]

[Albrightlane]

Thats why I do it.

[MR-HPT]

When I reply to any one entire group reads it. So don't get bent out of shape.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Fagan. I can assure you that I have plenty tolerance for mistakes, but ZERO
tolerance for the person who is eager to rip in to some one else's pocket
and play tuning games . If I did not you can rest assured that people who
you personally know very well, Ben, Larry, David and James would not even
consider visiting with me. Yet this boys enjoy avery minute in my "BACK
YARD TRAILER SHOP". Why would any one drive over 700 miles to listen to my
gripes? Why would people come to my school from practically each state,
Canada, Australia, and Europe? Do you understand what I'm talking about?
Why would people sent their engines 3000 miles o way from home, when they
have, best tuners with in 200 miles? Believe me as long as you guys
continue to instruct people in use of pressure gages, provide bogus
jetting, ignition, and tuning data, I will be busting as many as I can.
That is a promise which I made to my customers who suffered tremendous
loses in past 8 years dealing with what you call tolerable CHOP SHOP
tuners.
Now lets get down to real business. Lets consider 1998 triple stock OEM
Yamaha. Total Volume 1130.521 cc. Bore 84 mm. Stroke 68 mm. Stock OEM Port
opening 87.133 degree. Stock OEM head volume is 44 cc. What is the cranking
pressure of this engine at Sea level at 60 degree F and barometer reading
at 30 inches of mercury?
Next lets look at Yamaha GP2000R. Bore 80 mm. Stroke 78 mm. Stock OEM Port
82.707 degree. At Sea level 60 degree F. 30 inch mercury reading. What is
the cranking pressure of this engine? Once and for all, pleas post octane
requirement versus cranking pressure, from 120 to 220 lbs, @ Sea level. 500
feet, 1000 feet, 2000 feet, and 6000 feet. Fagan I consider you to be sharp
men. You do this and I will never again post another bitching response to
any one.

George Ski HPT Sport USA
http://www.hpt-sport.com
Tel 270-898-2617

[MR-HPT]

Laszlo tell this to a person who just learned that he needs to cuff up over $3000 to fix
his engine which was modified by pressure gage expert. And you wish to do induction test?
GJG

[MR-HPT]

I know the difference all right, it is people like you who attempting to measure
body temperature of sick drunkards like you, by sticking cooking gage up to their
rectum instead of using precision thermometer. LOL
GJG

[MR-HPT]

LOL. How's you project Darin?
GJG

[SL(SeaLion)]

Bent out of shape, LOL? I think you have a little more experience with
getting bent out of shape than I do. Please explain what you are talking
about in your first sentence and what it has to do with my post below? I
know when anyone posts the entire group does indeed receive the messages
but still I don't understand where you are coming from in your first
sentence.

Signed, Bent out of shape like a badly tuned impeller or a Yamaha crank
:)

[Fagan Pace]

btw George since designing engines is what you do, what max sustainable
rpm would you recommend for Larry's 5mm stroker? It ran very very VERY
strong radar speeds today but I'm a bit concerned about the rpm it was
turning. Think we need a much steeper prop for the engine to have a
reasonable life.

Fagan Pace

[Fagan Pace]

George, your killing me here buddy! I don't design engines. What I can
do is simply post my experience and that is that any of the of the bolt
on major brand name aftermarket heads that yield on average approx 150#
cranking compression have operated w/93 octane pump fuel on many many
stock gp1200 engines with no visible signs of detonation.

Fagan Pace

[MR-HPT]

I have no idea what his engine is capable ow after Dan done his work. All I
did is provided Larry with crank for my cost, you done the assembly, Dan
did the port work and head machining. Between the two of you, you should
know what this engine can do. I will be glad to catalogue his machine when
he gets in better shape and starts driving again. Must important thing now
is to record his existing EGT under a fool load and start tuning for
maximum load. I'm confident that you will do fine job. We cant taker care
of existing impeller and nozzle combination when Larry decides to visit in
this area again. Or I can hook up my fateful 454 truck to my back yard
machine shop trailer, and come up to his place, if he can afford my travel
expenses. LOL
Regards
GJG

[MR-HPT]

We agree not to dwell on personal crap. Go on with your test program. I love to see your
work. Who knows you may be able to come up with useful data after all of this bickering.
Would it be nice to just look up at the cranking pressure of your gage and jet our
carburetors accordingly.

[MR-HPT]

SL I have no idea why my server replies to you instead to Laszlo. Weird staff. Dog gone
apex stinks. I get messages that are posted months o go. Any way forward this to your
flaming body bellow.
GJG

[MR-HPT]

Good choice Mark. No meter what, I consider you to be real friend, even if I have to kick your
ass from time to time. Get some fresh air, and stop to smell the roses. I hate to see you
running it to another tree, or David Haynes, Ronnie, Larry, and James. LOL

[MR-HPT]

Jim it makes no difference what name you use, I will always recognize
you stinking mouth aver time you open it. Darin you see what I mean when
I said that his brain is gone? He changes his provider, and signs his
real name at the end of the post.
GJG