Attention all GP1200 and GP760 Owners !!!!!
Pascal A. Barth
Dear Greg and Tina;
We have a copy of your e-mail that you sent to Splash and would really
enjoy talking to you about your problems with Yamaha. Like yourselves
we
have been buying Yamaha products for many years and have never been
unsatisfied with their performance. Our GP1200 and GP760 hulls
cracked
and have been repaired and re-enforced twice (by our dealer) and are
currently still cracking. Within 4 hours of riding after the 2nd
repair
the small crack became a hole and began taking on water. Obviously the
hulls did not go through appropriate research and development and are
defective and unsafe. Yamaha is blaming the riders, claiming that the
problems that we are having are isolated incidents because we "abuse"
the
watercraft. We have been very patient with these people however, we
cannot continue to have our situation ignored or improperly dealt with
any
longer. After speaking to professionals in the industry we have been
informed that the hulls that are made of SMC are very difficult to be
repaired/re-enforced successfully and Yamaha’s current method is not
working. Our group existing of 25 people is in the process of banding
together, to show Yamaha that these are not isolated incidents and we
would appreciate you and your friends joining us in our efforts.
Please
contact Pascal Barth at this e-mail address to discuss this matter
further. Signed, Angry Riders in Orange County, CA.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
John Hill
Well as I stated earlier. All the patch would do is delay the inevitable
and help hold the pieces together. The GP1200 is 7 inches longer than a
GSX with 3 cylinder engine and thus weighs comparatively much less. I
have heard of one GP1200 where the keel cracked in the surf also.
Yamaha is using new molds for next year. The bow stays very low in the
water and takes a real beating... note the 20 ft spray to each side and the
created drag.
Yama engaged in false advertising. The fastest accelerating boat in the
world. It is not even close. Top end of 60 + mph. No way. 0-30 in 1.83
seconds. 0-50 in 3.5 seconds. No way. Supplied rigged test boats to
Watercraft World with hot engines and 160 psi for evaluation.
File a complaint with your states Attorney General. Consummer Affairs
Division. They will have to take back your boat and refund your money.
They took mine back and refunded my money. Deceptive trade practises and
fruad are subject to punitive damages along with potential criminal
charges.
If you sell your boat to another person and do not disclose a problem known
to you, you can end up in court along with YAMA! You basically have a
boat you can not sell!
I think the question of SMC versus Fiberglass hulls may have been answered
for us.
Pascal A. Barth <pba...@tauceti.com> wrote in article
<8706262...@dejanews.com>...
Larry KN4IM
How high DID you jump your GP? I chicken out way too low, evidently.
4-6 ft wave jumping doesn't seem to hurt it.....so far. The few of us
that have GP1200's and GP760's left would appreciate any information
your group extracts from the big Japanese corporation...
Thanks...
Larry, aboard "YamaHawg"....no cracks yet, but I'm watching it.
Damn tywraps.....
Larry KN4IM
"John Hill" <jh...@ghgcorp.com> wrote:
>
>File a complaint with your states Attorney General. Consummer Affairs
>Division. They will have to take back your boat and refund your money.
>They took mine back and refunded my money. Deceptive trade practises and
>fruad are subject to punitive damages along with potential criminal
>charges.
John, what was the name of the dealer that took the boat back and
refunded your money? What city, state? What was the name of the
Yamaha representative who authorized this return of the product?
When did you return it?...I'd also be interested in its serial number
if you have it. You have, obviously, set a precedence they cannot
ignore if the boats are trash as is alleged here. Please share the
information on your return with the rest of us who may end up in the
same condition!
Thanks,
Larry, aboard "YamaHawg"....Sure was fun this weekend...
LNJ
In <8706262...@dejanews.com> Pascal A. Barth <pba...@tauceti.com>
writes:
All I can say is that I have had no problems with my GP1200...hull or
otherwise...I've raced it twice thus far in off-shore races, 1st race
was 25 miles in 2 foot copy..with occasional(sp?) 4 footers rolling
in...second race was about 30 miles in 4 foot waves with occasional 6-7
footers rolling in...the hull hasnt given me any problems...maybe the
first run was a bad mix? (I know there was a stop shippment for about
2-3 weeks when I was trying to buy mine...maybe they were changing the
SMC mix or cure time or something?)
Larry KN4IM
YO, JOHN! You didn't address my post! Can you post answers to the
questions below? We'd ALL love to know some SPECIFIC information as
to when and who took back your boat!.....how 'bout it, guy?
Thanks!
Larry and the other GP1200 owners on r.s.j
John Hill
To see if there is a problem before it is too late you have to cut through
the foam in the bow! Everyone who has done this has found signs of the
problem. Other post from a guy who sold his after just 12 hours and the
guy buying inspected the hull and also found the internal fragments of the
brace.
Yamaha told me that I was supposed to fill my hull up with water after
every ride and see if I could find any pieces floating around! RIGHT....
here is your boat back!
If it was a small bad run then it would be by serial number and Yama would
be recalling just those hulls and not repairing all of them or blamming the
riders!
Remember the first post on this subject was from europe after one sank and
another 10 were examined at the race and they all had the same problem.
Does not seem to fit the random probability of a single bad run which Yama
can not identify by serial number.
LNJ <lar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<5s3n37$b...@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>...
Larry KN4IM
Pascal A. Barth <pba...@tauceti.com> wrote:
>unsatisfied with their performance. Our GP1200 and GP760 hulls
>cracked
>and have been repaired and re-enforced twice (by our dealer) and are
>currently still cracking. Within 4 hours of riding after the 2nd
>repair
>the small crack became a hole and began taking on water. Obviously the
>hulls did not go through appropriate research and development and are
>defective and unsafe. Yamaha is blaming the riders, claiming that the
>problems that we are having are isolated incidents because we "abuse"
>the
>watercraft. We have been very patient with these people however, we
Well, you got me. I took the Hawg to a boat repair shop this
afternoon to have the hull inspected. Let's say it was $40 worth of
"insurance" and peace of mind because I was over 60 miles from home
last Saturday enjoying the ICW north of Charleston, the ocean off
several beautiful deserted island paradises and some nice beaches up
there. The boat guys pulled the Hawg off the trailer up on a lift so
we could walk around underneath the hull. They have a "sounder", an
ultrasonic device they use to find flaws. We poked, prodded,
ultrasounded and could not find a single flaw in my "old" GP1200,
bought last February. There are some pretty heavy duty scratches and
a couple in the "gouge" category under there from a couple of
unfortunate contacts with underwater obstacles I'd sooner not think
about. None of these did any hull damage beyond the gouges. We could
see the plates I had installed at Yamaha's expense (Thank you Laurie!)
and found a bubble in the glue. It's REALLY put in solid, though.
We also talked about SMC. Being a professional hull shop, not a
motorcycle or bike shop that has PWC as a sideline, he said that SMC
isn't really hard to work with and they have all the equipment and
"stuff" necessary to clean up my hull after the season is
over....around $100-150 was mentioned. He also agreed those stupid
little blocks some blockhead at Yamaha stuck under that step in the
back needed "fixing"...drag, you know. I asked him if his shop could
fill the entire step making my hull longer to pick up the back out of
the water. No problem. He'll even make the strakes match so it will
all be very smooth to the stern where he suggested we put in a nice
little curve for some lift.
Ahhh...I feel much better. Now, I've been jumping some heavy waves by
my standards in the Ocean Atlantique, of late. I've had it all out of
the water maybe 4' which is my limit. How high ARE you guys jumping
your GP1200s, anyways?? I can see there must be some limit for ANY
hull of ANY material that has a 3-cylinder massive engine on a heavy
block plus 14 gallons of gas. Something's gotta give, sometimes.
What is reasonable? Who says what is reasonable? I don't think 15
feet is reasonable, is it? I see the pros waving at the cams for PWI
or Splash. But WE are not supposed to put our boats that high, are
we? Somebody tell us the limits!! YOO HOO, YAMAHA!!
Oh, yeah, did the DEALER fix the hull? I can understand your average
PWC DEALER repairing a hull, then it cracking again. My motorcycle
mechanics here are hardly qualified to fix any hull problem. They
farmed out the warrantee installation of the plates under the front
bucket....I'm glad!
Larry, aboard "YamaHawg"...not defending Yamaha...not at all. I have
my beefs with them...
Larry KN4IM
simonw@*hatespam*zip.com.au (Simon Wallace) wrote:
>
>Maybe I'm blind, but I have never seen an advertisement from Yamaha
>stating that the GP1200 was capable of 60+. Where did you see this?
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Simon Wallace, Sydney Australia
>
>To reply via e-mail, remove the *hatespam* from my e-mail address
>My opinions are exactly that. Mine. And they don't represent
>those of my employer.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Simon, every piece of advertising literature sent to any of us in the
USA had a speedo with 60 prominently displayed. The speedo DOES, in
fact, read 60 as advertised on my GP1200. It, itself, is a lie as the
speedo reads 8 mph over what the boat is running at this speed (WOT).
The inference, that I'm sure any jury or court would agree, is that
the boat will do 60 MPH. The whole thing is a lie, it does 52-54mph
on my GPS which is much more accurate than those "peak" speeds bragged
about from a radar gun. Taken over a 3 mile trip in a straight line
at WOT, the GPS reads around 53.5mph on my boat. This is AFTER adding
a ProTec intake grate, Solas "J" prop turning 66-6700 RPM with a
Protec nozzle. The hull has considerable drag all across the back as
the inverted U-shaped bumper rail drags in the fast water. There's so
much pressure around the back, water sprays up between the bumper and
the hull. I think a lot of drag occurs around the 8 big bolts that
hold the intake grate on and the 6 big bolts that hold the ride plate
on. I'll live with that as we have all seen the alternatives when
they get cheap and go to 2 bolts, 3 bolts in an effort to save a few
bucks on parts and labor with cheap plastic grates with only a few
bolts. No thanks. The drag is probably of less value than a life.
I'm going to try some ride plates soon to see if I can find something
to pick up the stern out of the water. If you look at the curvature
of the hull centerline, you'll see a "bubble" of a bow that hangs down
in front. This bubble pushes up the bow underway forcing the stern
down too far. The bubble does nothing at slow speeds as waves and
wakes easily overflow the low bow and into the sunken footwells to
make sure your feet stay soaked, but cool..(c; The bubble sure makes
hole shots fast as it shoves the bow up on plane very fast.
Larry, aboard "YamaHawg"....no hull cracks on ultrasound...yet.
John Hill
In addition Yamaha held it's annual sales meetings in Vegas. Dealers were
given literature and a presention stating that the GP1200 did 63 mph, which
they then relayed to their customers. An X dealer now taped it!
You will also note Yama said that the GP760 was the best performer under 60
MPH in its ads.. That can only be true if the GP1200 did 60 + mph! And if
the GP760 was in the very high fifties ( try 46 mph). All very false. All
based on the results of providing HOT boats with 160-180 psi to the mags!
Yama did this same crap in past years!
See the Yama WEB site, it is all still there right up to the claim that it
is the fastest accelerating watercraft in the world ( 8 months after
everyone in the world knows that's NOT true!)
The boat that they gave to Dream Team was "hot" ( souped up with high
compression)" and the graph shows the GP1200 doing over sixty!
Larry you can take some of the drag out of the bolts by siliconing the
surfaces smoothl. It is not actually much drag less than .5 mph. On a
Yama grate you also need to seal every edge with silicone including where
the scoop portion meets the ramp internally. That will illiminate much
more resistance than the bolts. Air pockets/indents in the hull to capture
air are actually designed into the hull to produce lift.
Sea Doo has a gullet in the botom so the grate is recessed and the bolts
irrespective of number produce far less drag. The hull forms part of the
grate that is and the ramp is not part of the grate.
My Raider 1100 with it six bolts also lost its grate and so did a friend.
However it took awhile unlike the GSXL's grates which were badly installed.
Larry KN4IM <kn...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<33e711c...@news.mindspring.com>...
Larry KN4IM
But, JOHN! You STILL haven't told us WHICH dealer took back the boat
and WHICH Yamaha representative authorized giving you your money back!
Please, oh please, share some SPECIFIC information that may help
others on the ng do the same thing! Why won't you answer these simple
questions? IF you have set this precedence, we'd ALL love to have
SPECIFIC information!
Thanks!
Larry, and the rest of the GP1200 owners on r.s.j WAITING for 3 days
now for this simple answer!
shevrock
On 5 Aug 97 17:20:38 GMT, "John Hill" <jh...@ghgcorp.com> wrote:
>My Raider 1100 with it six bolts also lost its grate and so did a friend.
>However it took awhile unlike the GSXL's grates which were badly installed.
>
>Larry KN4IM <kn...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
><33e711c...@news.mindspring.com>...
>> simonw@*hatespam*zip.com.au (Simon Wallace) wrote:
I thought that I was the only that had that happen. My Raider grate
came loose and broke the intake grate and cracked the pump houseing.
Simon Wallace
"John Hill" <jh...@ghgcorp.com> wrote:
>Well as I stated earlier. All the patch would do is delay the inevitable
>and help hold the pieces together. The GP1200 is 7 inches longer than a
>GSX with 3 cylinder engine and thus weighs comparatively much less. I
>have heard of one GP1200 where the keel cracked in the surf also.
It is possible to repair SMC to its original, or even greater
strength. If the recall reinforcement was done properly there's no
reason to be worried about it.
>Yama engaged in false advertising. The fastest accelerating boat in the
>world. It is not even close. Top end of 60 + mph. No way. 0-30 in 1.83
>seconds. 0-50 in 3.5 seconds. No way. Supplied rigged test boats to
>Watercraft World with hot engines and 160 psi for evaluation.
Maybe I'm blind, but I have never seen an advertisement from Yamaha
Larry KN4IM
Tony Ernst <nic...@skynet.be> wrote:
>I was one the first mentionning the problems that happens in Europe
>concerning the GP 1200.
>I'm happy (I'ts an expression) to see that I doesn't lie as Yamaha
>seemed to say... As I mentionned then : the reinforcement kit they have
>prove the problem.
>But I should admit that not every GP have this hull cracking even some
>of them used in offshore racing.
>Another problem in Europe: rings ordered 4 weeks ago: back order !!!!
>NO STOCK on GP parts...
Tony, we ALL owe you a big thank you for sharing the original post
with us. My hull has the reinforcement kit in the front, but now I
hear someone most recently has cracking in the hull and even a hole in
the hull in the aft part around the chines. I'm just so sick of it
all I don't know what to do.
The front hood, the one that covers the storage bin, was special
ordered by Yamaha tech service here after a 5 month wait. My dealer
CLAIMS to have mistakenly thrown it away. Now tech support says she
has no more hoods to send me. Isn't that nice? I assume, from this
report, that they have STOPPED PRODUCING this pig, entirely, as there
are no parts to make them with, obviously. I have no more word on
when my front storage hood will be sent AGAIN to my dealer. So,
obviously, from your rings and my hood the GP1200 must have been
quietly dumped as there seems to be no more parts on a "current
production" boat. They probably made X number of units, found out it
was crap and are redesigning it and trying to dump the old units at
dealers for $6600 WITH TRAILER, as I saw posted here yesterday! This
is another nail in its pitiful coffin. I think they should be
OVERFLOWING with parts available on the production line floor if they
are still producing this boat. It seems they are NOT!
Larry...aboard "YamaHawg"....I keep hearing RETURN in my head, every
time I look at her....dammit.
Larry KN4IM
"John Hill" <jh...@ghgcorp.com> wrote:
>Do you get the idea that when you have a problem with a Yamaha that you are
>the only one it has ever happened to. One way to create a reliabilty myth?
>
>
I'm the ONLY one who ever twisted a crank.......Just ask 'em!
Larry
John Hill
Do you get the idea that when you have a problem with a Yamaha that you are
the only one it has ever happened to. One way to create a reliabilty myth?
shevrock <nospam-...@twd.net> wrote in article
<33e7748a...@news.twd.net>...
LongHair10
Good Luck with your case against Yamaha.
I have a sea-doo and have noticed some small cracks, but nothing too
serious. The way I see it, these machines should be made to withstand one
of the greatest pleasures of watercraft.......GETTING MAXIMUM AIR!!
Larry KN4IM
sal...@aol.com (SALDAN) wrote:
>the gp 12 tested in splash was bone stock from a dealer, broken in for
>about 5 hours. It was tested at the with the sponsons all the way up on a
>75 degree day on glass flat water (ideal conditions) with 160 pound pro
>rider Clay Cullen piloting.
I talked to a staffer at Splash magazine. The boat DID in fact come
"from a dealer". However, it was NOT the dealer's boat, but a boat
delivered from Yamaha to the dealer for the purpose of the magazine
article. Notice how, in the pictures on page 28 and 29, shopworn the
boat numbering is. This is because of transportation of this boat
from dealer to dealer, demo to demo, magazine article to magazine
article. IT'S A FACTORY PREPARED BOAT! Look at the engine picture on
page 29 and notice the 2 big scratches on the pipe to the right of the
rubber coupler. My boat has similar markings caused by the complete
disassembly of the engine for the crankshaft overhaul. Notice, too,
that the boat is COMPLETELY DEVOID of any lawyer-inspired stickers of
any kind. No stickers on the glovebox cover, the stern, the gas cap,
the hood telling you where the useless fire extinguisher is
located...they were NEVER applied. Tell me which dealer strips off
the stickers that cover his ass legally from ANY boat. IT'S A FACTORY
PREPARED BOAT WHOS ENGINE HAS BEEN DISASSEMBLED.
How much damage to the hull numbers do YOU do in only 5 hours of
riding in front of magazine cameras?? Nope, doesn't wash Yamaha, it's
a fake!
Splash also admitted to me they did NO testing of compression, stroke
length, or any engine modifications. Another odd thing is the totally
DIFFERENT picture back on page 19.....NO BOAT NUMBERS? Maybe THAT
boat, also devoid of all the lawyer-inspired legal stickers was
specially stripped by the dealer! HA!
Notice how old Clay has his gonads butt tight to the glovebox and Miss
HoneyPot is sitting in the DRIVER'S seat? Owning this piece of crap,
albeit briefly I hope, they were putting the weight as forward as
possible to keep its draggin' ass out of the water....been there, done
that.
The only way to get the GP1200 above 60 mph is to run a hot stroker
200hp motor on its draggin' ass hull or put it on a trailer and GUN
IT!
Larry....don't believe any BS you hear about this boat from anyone.
It's all a big lie! Look close at the pictures. A 5-hour old
brand-new boat doesn't have a scratch on its hull or numbers or
engine. Won't wash...sorry
John Hill
Larry KN4IM <kn...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<33f987e2...@news.mindspring.com>...
>Of course it does not wash. You can not have so many with 54+ mph times
some lighter guyss at 56 and not better that a 57 in the winter time and
then mysteriously everytime a maghazine test one it does 59+ mph.
Of course the best of Yamaha after weeks of work can not make a stock one
in Houston break even 55 mph. I know that any loss of power or additional
weight causes this boats performance too nose dive ( like the bow).. Mine
droped almost 2 mph as April turned to may at the weather and water
temperture warmed. I have come up against a ton of others and they all have
performed on top end a bout the same with more differences off the line).
Random probablity tells you that the deck is stacked. And in the Dream
Team test the magazine even states it was stacked with160 psi compression.
If you had to cheat to get 59+ there, you had to cheat elsewhere to do the
same!
SALDAN
Tim
WaveTamer wrote:
>
> mine goes faster than 55,and it's stock,according to gps it is
> going 58.3..93 degrees and about 1 ft chop.
>
>
> I guess I'm lucky...
>
> WaveYou are indeed, one of the lucky ones. Be carefull not to bend your
crank.
Tim