Stan Fischler on NewSporTalk
Neil Hornsey
Stan Fischler was interviewed Monday night on Sportschannel's NewSporTalk.
Here is a summary of some of the things he talked about and said.
* Stan criticized the officiating in game 3 of the finals. He thought
Bure was given to harsh a penalty and should not have been thrown out. He
then went off on the Rangers for doing some cheap shots of their own. He
basically called Anderson, Tikkanen, and Beukeboom cheap-shot artists.
* Stan criticized the officiating in game 7 of the Devils-Rangers series.
He said that the Devils would have won if they officiating had been
better. He stated that Richter should have definitely been ejected for
his shove of the ref. Stan said that the fact the New York media didn't
even mention the play was a sad commentary of the New York media. When a
caller said that the play should have been whistled dead on the tying
goal, Fischler said that the winning goal should have been waved off
because Tikkanen was in the crease. He said that the ref. didn't have the
guts to wave it off because the Rangers were already celebrating the win.
Stan also blasted Beukeboom for his cheap shot on Richer.
* Stan talked about the greatest players to ever play. He thinks Gordie
Howe was the best ever. He says that Howe could have been the best in
today's style of game, but that Gretzky could have done nothing in the old
days. He also said that Lemieux, when healthy, and Messier are both
better than Gretzky. He pointed out that Messier is about to win his
second cup without Gretzky, but Gretzky has not won the cup without Messier.
* Fischler thinks that the Rangers will win in five and that if they win
the cup, Keenan could very well be coaching the Flyers next season.
Keenan will have nothing left to accomplish is New York and he likes
Philadelphia.
Listening to Stan was very entertaining. He knows hockey very well.
Neil Hornsey
Sherri Nichols
>days. He also said that Lemieux, when healthy, and Messier are both
>better than Gretzky. He pointed out that Messier is about to win his
>second cup without Gretzky, but Gretzky has not won the cup without
>Messier.
Of course, using that same kind of logic, one can make the argument that
Esa Tikkanen and Glen Anderson are better than Gretzky as well.
Sherri Nichols
snic...@adobe.com
Gerald Olchowy
In playoffs series where Esa and Wayne went head-to-head, it is
Esa 3, Wayne 1...
In the world, only Guy Carbonneau can make a similar claim
(Guy 1, Wayne 0)...and with Esa, it is not a set with only
one datum.
Gerald
Lydia Mancini
[stuff deleted]
>* Stan talked about the greatest players to ever play. He thinks Gordie
>Howe was the best ever. He says that Howe could have been the best in
>today's style of game, but that Gretzky could have done nothing in the old
>days.
Interesting that Rocket Richard (who has played a few more games than Stan),
has been quoted as saying that Gretzky would have been a force in his day
as well.
>He also said that Lemieux, when healthy, and Messier are both
>better than Gretzky.
Mike Bossy, if healthy could have played a few more seasons and passed a
few players on the all-time scoring list and be regarded as one of the most
prolific scorers in history. Scotty Bowman, if he hadn't had his head
cracked, could have become a great player. Putting an "if healthy" clause
widens the definition of agreat player, doesn't it.
Gretzky (except for this year) makes everyone a better player. It's been
proven time and time again.
>He pointed out that Messier is about to win his
>second cup without Gretzky, but Gretzky has not won the cup without Messier.
We all now that it takes a mixture of many circumstances to win the Cup.
There is no point in comparing that.
>* Fischler thinks that the Rangers will win in five and that if they win
>the cup, Keenan could very well be coaching the Flyers next season.
>Keenan will have nothing left to accomplish is New York and he likes
>Philadelphia.
How about winning another Cup?
>Listening to Stan was very entertaining. He knows hockey very well.
>Neil Hornsey
I didn't know too much about Fishcler, until I started reading some of
his books. I read "Rivalry: Canadiens vs Leafs", and he says very little
after 1967. He seems to be stuck in the past. I like old-time hockey
just as much as the next guy, but I'm not going to ignore what the game
has become today.
-- Lydia
--
(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)
Lydia Mancini | "Oh drat these computers are so naughty and so
sha...@cs.mcgill.ca | complex. I could pinch them."
McGill University | -- Marvin The Martian from Loony Tunes
Alain DAGHER
: Stan Fischler was interviewed Monday night on Sportschannel's NewSporTalk.
: Here is a summary of some of the things he talked about and said.
: * Stan talked about the greatest players to ever play. He thinks Gordie
: Howe was the best ever. He says that Howe could have been the best in
: today's style of game, but that Gretzky could have done nothing in the old
: days. He also said that Lemieux, when healthy, and Messier are both
: better than Gretzky. He pointed out that Messier is about to win his
: second cup without Gretzky, but Gretzky has not won the cup without Messier.
I wouldn't put too much stock in what Fiscler says. Do you remember
his ranking of the 50 greatest players ever? It was ridiculous. I
think he had Lafleur at 47 or something.
Anyway, regarding Howe vs. Gretzky, Gordie was a very good player who
played well year after year, while Gretzky was an absolutely
dominant force (still is?), not just a "very good player". In any
case, the debate regarding the best ever isn't Howe vs. Gretzky, but
Gretzky vs. Orr vs. Lemieux.
: Listening to Stan was very entertaining. He knows hockey very well.
I disagree with the second statement.
Also, regarding the "Richter shove", there is absolutely no way on
earth that he should have had a penalty for that. Nobody who knows
hockey has suggested otherwise (to my knowledge).
--
Best wishes,
Alain Dagher
Montreal Neurological Institute
E-Mail: al...@pet.mni.mcgill.ca
Glen Piper
In article <1994Jun8.1...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
Alain DAGHER <alain@grumio> wrote:
[stuff cut]
>
>Anyway, regarding Howe vs. Gretzky, Gordie was a very good player who
>played well year after year, while Gretzky was an absolutely
>dominant force (still is?), not just a "very good player". In any
>case, the debate regarding the best ever isn't Howe vs. Gretzky, but
>Gretzky vs. Orr vs. Lemieux.
>
You sure you're not rm in disguise? That's just the kind of claptrap
(w/regards to Howe) that Roger has continually & ignorantly spouted from
time to time...
Gretzy may be the best scorer of all time (I'd agree w/that assessment),
but he is *NOT* the best HOCKEY PLAYER ever. Being the best hockey player
encompasses all aspects of the game. Looking at things from this
perspective, how can Howe *not* be considered the best? The only possible,
IMO, contender would be Orr. Gretzky is definitely in the top 5, but not
the best (he says as he dons the finest in asbestos-ware! ;-> ).
>Also, regarding the "Richter shove", there is absolutely no way on
>earth that he should have had a penalty for that. Nobody who knows
>hockey has suggested otherwise (to my knowledge).
Here, I agree with you completely! To have penalized Richter would've been
absurd. It's not like he took a swing at the ref - hell, if the call had
gone against NJ, Nicholls probably would've shot the puck at the ref... ;-)
Later,
Glen
--
****************************************************************************
* Glen Piper * Go Heels! Go Kalamazoo! Go Wings! *
* email: gl...@med.unc.edu * Opinions herein belong to myself - NOT UNC-CH! *
****************************************************************************
Gary L. Dare
nhor...@saucer.cc.umr.edu (Neil Hornsey) says:
>He basically called Anderson, Tikkanen, and Beukeboom cheap-shot
>artists.
>Stan criticized the officiating in game 7 of the Devils-Rangers
>series.
Stan works for SportsChannel New York, which is the home network
of the New York Islanders and the New Jersey Devils. The Devils
need to drum up interest for next season, and SCNY needs to get
advertisers and to justify their rates (how about the specials
on storm doors they were hawking a couple of years ago?).
Ironically, Stan predicts at the start of every season that the
Rangers will win the Cup. Like the British Museum theory, that
given infinite time a group of monkeys in front of typewriters
will replicate its entire book collection, Stan might finally
be right this year and he'll be a genius ...
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare formerly g...@columbia.edu
"Support NAFTA - Eat Mexican!" g...@prairienet.org
(El Teddy's ad, NYC) uk...@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
Sherri Nichols
>In playoffs series where Esa and Wayne went head-to-head, it is
>Esa 3, Wayne 1...
So you think Esa Tikkanen is better than Wayne Gretzky?
What about Glenn Anderson, Kevin Lowe, Craig MacTavish, Jeff Beukeboom?
All of these guys fall into the same category as Messier and Tikkanen:
about to win their second Cup without Gretzky.
Boy, that Gretzky must have been a real stiff.....
Sherri Nichols
snic...@adobe.com
Boris Volk
You are forgetting the Oilers 3 game sweep in 81 or 82 so the score is 1-1
|>
|> Gerald
|>
Boris Volk - Bruins fan
Daniel S Hurwitz
: nhor...@saucer.cc.umr.edu (Neil Hornsey) says:
: >He basically called Anderson, Tikkanen, and Beukeboom cheap-shot
: >artists.
: >Stan criticized the officiating in game 7 of the Devils-Rangers
: >series.
: Stan works for SportsChannel New York, which is the home network
: of the New York Islanders and the New Jersey Devils. The Devils
: need to drum up interest for next season, and SCNY needs to get
: advertisers and to justify their rates (how about the specials
: on storm doors they were hawking a couple of years ago?).
: Ironically, Stan predicts at the start of every season that the
: Rangers will win the Cup. Like the British Museum theory, that
: given infinite time a group of monkeys in front of typewriters
: will replicate its entire book collection, Stan might finally
: be right this year and he'll be a genius ...
Actually, as a personal friend of the Maven, I know that his annual
prediction of a Rangers Cup win is done to jinx the Blueshirts, and not to
beat the law of averages.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel S. Hurwitz dhur...@sas.upenn.edu (215)387-8422
University of Pennsylvania class of 95 Psychology/ Communications
Fischler Hockey Service Flyers Correspondent
"Let your mind go and your body will follow." -The signpost, LA Story
Let's Go Canucks!!!
Gerald Olchowy
>In article <1994Jun8.0...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golc...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>>In playoffs series where Esa and Wayne went head-to-head, it is
>>Esa 3, Wayne 1...
>
>So you think Esa Tikkanen is better than Wayne Gretzky?
>
That is not what I said...Esa Tikkanen, though, is a lot better
hockey player than most people give him credit for being. In
a one-on-one matchup, he can raise his game to exceptional
levels and almost always outplay the superstar he was and is
matched against...
Gerald
Nelson Lu
Gerald Olchowy <golc...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>In playoffs series where Esa and Wayne went head-to-head, it is
>Esa 3, Wayne 1...
Of course, in playoff series where Jay Caufield and Mark Messier went head-
to-head, it is Jay 1, Mark 0. :-)
===============================================================================
GO 1940! 1940! 1940! 1940! 1940! 1940! 1940! 1940! 1940! 1940! 1940!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (clau...@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
John Shanley
>* Stan criticized the officiating in game 7 of the Devils-Rangers series.
>He said that the Devils would have won if they officiating had been
>better. He stated that Richter should have definitely been ejected for
>his shove of the ref.
I have never seen any goaltender get ejected for bumping a ref, and I have seen it happen a number of times. First of all, it was simply an overzealous Richter, who, when skating towards McCreary, accidentally bumped him. There was no assault involved. If a starting goaltender was thrown out of a seventh game for that, McCreary would have found himself officiating in Europe next year.
>Stan said that the fact the New York media didn't
>even mention the play was a sad commentary of the New York media. When a
>caller said that the play should have been whistled dead on the tying
>goal, Fischler said that the winning goal should have been waved off
>because Tikkanen was in the crease. He said that the ref. didn't have the
>guts to wave it off because the Rangers were already celebrating the win.
Stan better check the viedo replay. The replay revealed that Tikkanen did not arrive in the crease until after the puck had hit Brodeur in the crease. Sorry, thanks for calling Stan!!!!
>Stan also blasted Beukeboom for his cheap shot on Richer.
Yeah, well Beukeboom was suspended for that. Did he mention how Nicholls cross-checks Kovalev in the neck while he was down, and then shoots the puck in his face, or the attempted slap-shot into the face of Glenn Anderson?? How's that for cheap?? Nicholls is a loser and always will be.
>Listening to Stan was very entertaining. He knows hockey very well.
Yeah, I'm sure. As evidenced by these comments.
>Neil Hornsey
Let's GO RANGERS!!!!
-- John S.
Lydia Mancini
>In article <1994Jun8.0...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>,
>Gerald Olchowy <golc...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
>>In playoffs series where Esa and Wayne went head-to-head, it is
>>Esa 3, Wayne 1...
>
>Of course, in playoff series where Jay Caufield and Mark Messier went head-
>to-head, it is Jay 1, Mark 0. :-)
Also, in playoff series where Andre Racicot and Wayne Gretzky went head-to-
head, it's Andre 1, Wayne 0. Huge :-) here
Neil Hornsey
: n...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
: >In article <1994Jun8.0...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>,
: >Gerald Olchowy <golc...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> wrote:
: >
: >>In playoffs series where Esa and Wayne went head-to-head, it is
: >>Esa 3, Wayne 1...
: >
: >Of course, in playoff series where Jay Caufield and Mark Messier went head-
: >to-head, it is Jay 1, Mark 0. :-)
: Also, in playoff series where Andre Racicot and Wayne Gretzky went head-to-
: head, it's Andre 1, Wayne 0. Huge :-) here
I think you guys are stretching Stan's argument way out of proportion in
an attempt to make it look stupid. I can not stand Mark Messier, but I
think that most would agree that he led the Oilers to their last cup, and
he is playing a major role in the cup win for the Rangers. Jay Caufield,
Esa Tikkanen, and Andre Racicot happened to be along for the ride when
their teams won the cup. Their teams could have still won it without
them. Messier's teams probably wouldn't win the cup without him.
Neil Hornsey
Sherri Nichols
>Lydia Mancini (sha...@cs.mcgill.ca) wrote:
>: n...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>: >In article <1994Jun8.0...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>,
>: >Gerald Olchowy <golc...@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>: >
>: >>In playoffs series where Esa and Wayne went head-to-head, it is
>: >>Esa 3, Wayne 1...
>: >
>: >Of course, in playoff series where Jay Caufield and Mark Messier went head-
>: >to-head, it is Jay 1, Mark 0. :-)
>: Also, in playoff series where Andre Racicot and Wayne Gretzky went head-to-
>: head, it's Andre 1, Wayne 0. Huge :-) here
>
>I think you guys are stretching Stan's argument way out of proportion in
>an attempt to make it look stupid.
To be fair to Fischler, they're not taking his argument way out of
proportion; the "head-to-head" argument was Gerald Olchowy's.
> I can not stand Mark Messier, but I
>think that most would agree that he led the Oilers to their last cup, and
>he is playing a major role in the cup win for the Rangers.
Sure, but he's not doing it alone, and he didn't do it alone with the
Oilers. That Messier's been lucky enough to be with two teams that had
sufficient talent to win the cup, while Gretzky hasn't, doesn't mean that
Messier is a better player than Gretzky.
>them. Messier's teams probably wouldn't win the cup without him.
The Rangers wouldn't be where they are without Brian Leetch, either.
That's the point; one player, no matter how great, is not enough, so using
"Cups won by team this player was on" as a metric for measuring greatness
is silly.
Sherri Nichols
snic...@adobe.com
Lydia Mancini
[stuff deleted]
>I think you guys are stretching Stan's argument way out of proportion in
>an attempt to make it look stupid. I can not stand Mark Messier, but I
>think that most would agree that he led the Oilers to their last cup, and
>he is playing a major role in the cup win for the Rangers. Jay Caufield,
>Esa Tikkanen, and Andre Racicot happened to be along for the ride when
>their teams won the cup. Their teams could have still won it without
>them. Messier's teams probably wouldn't win the cup without him.
True, but to imply (which is how it sounded) that Wayne Gretzky
wasn't as integral a part of those 4 Cups as Messier was is ludicrous.
Dave Kehrer
In article <1994Jun7.0...@umr.edu>,
Neil Hornsey <nhor...@saucer.cc.umr.edu> wrote:
>Stan Fischler was interviewed Monday night on Sportschannel's NewSporTalk.
>Here is a summary of some of the things he talked about and said.
[lots of dissing the Broadway Blues deleted]
>Listening to Stan was very entertaining. He knows hockey very well.
Nothing personal, Neil, but I do believe you're the first person I've
seen on r.s.h that says Stan Fishler knows hockey.
Fishler stopped being knowlegeable about hockey around the same time
Derek Sanderson did, circa 1972. His National Enquirer approach to
writing and rumor-mongering is why I stopped taking anything he says
seriously. Other than that, I think Stan's the best analyst to ever
work for the telecasts of two *different* NHL teams- I'm still waiting
for him to show-up for an Islander game wearing a Devils blazer sometime.
:-)
>Neil Hornsey
--
--------
David Kehrer (d...@cci.com)-Northern Telecom NAS-Rochester, New York
Joe Moulins
Stan Fischler also wrote once that he'd choose Bobby Smith ahead
of Wayne Gretzky. The man's a genius....
--
......................................................
Joe Moulins
Vancouver British Columbia
Canada
Robert Matthew Schmich
John Shanley <jt...@bellcore.com> wrote:
>In article 19...@umr.edu, nhor...@saucer.cc.umr.edu (Neil Hornsey) writes:
>>* Stan criticized the officiating in game 7 of the Devils-Rangers series.
>>He said that the Devils would have won if they officiating had been
>>better. He stated that Richter should have definitely been ejected for
>>his shove of the ref.
>
>I have never seen any goaltender get ejected for bumping a ref, and I have seen it happen a number of times. First of all, it was simply an overzealous Richter, who, when skating towards McCreary, accidentally bumped him. There was no assault involved. If a starting goaltender was thrown out of a seventh game for that, McCreary would have found himself officiating in Europe next year.
I don't think it was an accidental bump. Nevertheless, I don't understand
why the media(i.e. ESPN) has never talked about it, and the NHL has
never reviewed it(at least they've never said it publicly). I understand
the predicament that both McCreary and the NHL is in with regards to this
incident. Personally, I would be happy if Richter were suspended for the
first 10 games next season which would be the normal suspension for non-
accidental contact with officials. I am not a Canucks or Rangers fan,
but I am mad with the way this incident has been handled considering the
Zombo incident. Zombo's incident was played over and over again on ESPN,
and discussed on ESPN's hockey telescasts. I believe there were numerous
requests by other GMs(something like 6) for the league to review the
game tape.
<stuff deleted>
>
>Let's GO RANGERS!!!!
>-- John S.
>
Robert Schmich