AHL vs. IHL
Chris Bailey
What's your opinion on which is the better league, the AHL
or the IHL?
My impression is that recently the NHL is using the AHL more
than the IHL as its development league, so the AHL has
younger players that are one step away from the NHL. And
the IHL is a mix of older players who possibly played in the
NHL and young prospects for the NHL. i.e. the IHL is
creating its own market for hockey (attendance) and the AHL
relies more on the NHL to foot the bill.
In Denver, the 1994/1995 IHL Grizzlies had on their roster:
Zigmund Palffy, Nicklas Andersen, Kip Miller, Tommy Salo,
Chris Marinucci, Derek Armstrong, Chris Taylor, Chris
Luongo, Kevin Dineen's brother (can't remember his first
name), plus a few other decent players. This seemed to be a
stronger team than any AHL team I was aware of (at the
time).
So what's your opinion on which is the stronger league now a
days & why?
Chris Bailey
Roy A. Fletcher
with editing...
: What's your opinion on which is the better league, the AHL
: or the IHL?
Financially, it's the AHL.
Less travel. Less overnight expenses. Generally, higher attendance.
More support - salary-wise - from the NHL. More ice time for the
players (NHL prospects from my ville don't like the IHL because
they get far less skating time than the AHL).
At any time, one or two teams in the IHL may be better than AHL teams,
but the finances dictate - don't they always - that the teams with
the most money will be the better teams.
Regards. RAF
Karl Fengler (HOG FVR)
http://www.centralhockeyleague.com/
--
FXDWG * hog...@iname.com * F150 - 5.4
* http://www.bikerfriendlyusa.com/
!! You Have Strayed Upon The Motorway To HELL !!
.
Roy A. Fletcher wrote in message <38285...@news.victoria.tc.ca>...
Emmanuel Amin
>
> Chris Bailey (caba...@fc.hp.com) wrote:
> with editing...
> : What's your opinion on which is the better league, the AHL
> : or the IHL?
>
> Financially, it's the AHL.
> Less travel. Less overnight expenses. Generally, higher attendance.
Do you have any figure for the attendence ?
<couic>
FIDO NLA
>What's your opinion on which is the better league, the AHL
>or the IHL?
>My impression is that recently the NHL is using the AHL more
On the whole, I would probably say that the IHL has the better hockey, but
more and more, the AHL is the more attractive package. The Eastern
Conference teams of the IHL operate almost exactly like the AHL, as all of
those teams are full fledged affiliates of the NHL. The Western
Conference teams have varying degrees of affiliation, which grants the
team more control over the players that they bring in.
It's those 'partial' affiliations that, IMHO, drag the IHL down. In the
AHL, if you are a fan of a team, you are completely aware that while the
team is doing its utmost to win, that the primary goal was to develop
players for the parent club. A team in the IHL working with a partial
affiliation has players on their team that are to be developed, again at
the possible expense of the desired team goal of winning. (Especially
when the agreements are unofficial.)
A case in point...coming into this season, the independent Manitoba Moose
had under contract a goaltender, Christian Bronsard, who performed
admirably for a first year professional, and in fact, earned a tryout with
the Vancouver Canucks. However, an agreement with the Detroit Red Wings
has them supply two goaltenders to the Moose, leaving no room on the
roster for Bronsard, who was subsequently loaned to Syracuse Crunch of the
AHL. As a Manitoba Moose fan, I have to question whether or not it is the
purpose of the goaltending for the team is to win or to develop the two
goaltenders for the Red Wings.
The Moose have had other problems with NHL teams, specificly, the New
Jersey Devils. Last year, the Devils assigned goaltender Richard
Shulmistra to the Moose for the season. The Devils, the Moose, everyone
said that Shulmistra was in Manitoba for the season, and that he was not
going to be recalled or re-assigned. He wasn't, until the final day that
players could be moved and still be eligible for the NHL playoffs, and
voila, he was re-assigned to the Albany River Rats of the AHL.
More and more, the AHL is more attractive....at least you as a fan know
what kind of team you are cheering for.
Daryl Turner
sla...@rpi.edu
> What's your opinion on which is the better league, the AHL
> or the IHL?
>
> My impression is that recently the NHL is using the AHL more
> than the IHL as its development league, so the AHL has
> younger players that are one step away from the NHL. And
> the IHL is a mix of older players who possibly played in the
> NHL and young prospects for the NHL. i.e. the IHL is
> creating its own market for hockey (attendance) and the AHL
> relies more on the NHL to foot the bill.
On paper the IHL is a stronger league -- after all, there are players
who have good careers in the NHL.
However, the AHL is truly better.
1) Ticket prices. Average price in the AHL is about $12-15. The IHL is
more like $18-20, and the really good seats can be $30+. I don't think
the value is there for those prices.
2) Hungrier players in the AHL. I've seen a couple of IHL games. The
players play like they're working a job. They play a good game, and all
of them want to win. But they all know that they have no real chance of
making it back to the NHL unless they get really lucky. So they play
hard, but not as hard as they would if hard play would win them a trip
to the NHL.
3) Older players in the IHL. I just computed the average age of IHL
roster players vs AHL roster players. The IHL came in at just under 27
years old (26.91) vs just over 24 years old for AHL players (24.1). I
think that younger players = more willing to give it their all.
4) Different style of hockey in the AHL. I've seen that myself. The AHL
tends to be harder working, griding hockey, versus fancy stickwork and
passing, but players who giveup if the pass doesn't connect in the
IHL. That was the one big difference I noticed when I saw IHL games --
if the puck was lost in the offensive zone, the offensive players
turned around and skated out. But in the AHL, the players go in and dig
for the puck.
5) People argue that the AHL has many callups so that the good players
are never in the league. But the IHL has a lot of player movement too
because if a player isn't performing up to expectations, or just
doesn't fit in, he gets traded or released. I would say that
the "fluidity" of an AHL team vs an IHL team is close to the same. I'd
have to do some analysis on this to prove it though.
This is one of those discussions that can rage for an eternity, but the
only way to know for yourself is to see both leagues. If you live in
Cincinnati, you have that chance because both leagues have a team there.
Ralph
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ian Merrithew
news:80atbv$9...@surf.pangea.ca...
> More and more, the AHL is more attractive....at least you as a fan know
> what kind of team you are cheering for.
some AHL teams. The best recent example is the transfer of the Fredericton
Canadiens to Quebec to become the Citadelles. The Canadiens were operated
completely by Montreal -- they supplied all the players to Fredericton, and
generally focused on younger players. The last couple of seasons, however,
Montreal has changed its focus from developing players to assembling a
winner. There were more career minor-leaguers present on Fredericton's
roster the last couple of years, and now in Quebec, Montreal is only
supplying 12 players to the Citadelles. Quebec is free to sign the rest
themselves; and the result is a team stocked with NHL washouts. Jesse
Belanger, Oleg Petrov, Pierre Sevigny, Andrei Bashkirov to name four. For
sure, Quebec will do well in the standings, but Montreal's player
development is going to suffer for it. What four recent Canadiens draft
picks are stuck in some other level of hockey because there's no room for
them in Quebec?
And the Philadelphia Phantoms are the classic example, IMO. The Flyers
aren't exactly stocking that team with kids fresh out of junior hockey. Or
have Jim Montgomery, Peter White, and Mike Maneluk had sudden career
revivals? But Philly *draws fans*. A quick look at their attendance
figures, I'd say they're averaging around 7000 fans per game. With the
mega-budgets that NHL teams operate on these days, those AHL operations have
to be able to contribute. That means bigger markets, and veteran players
who can make the team more competitive to keep the fair-weather fans coming
back.
A few years ago, I would have agreed that the AHL was superior to the IHL in
a flash. Now, seeing the direction the AHL is headed in, I'm not so sure
anymore.
--
Ian Merrithew - FCC Engineering, Saint John, NB
(use my first name.my last na...@ieee.org to email)
Alex Goddard
>On paper the IHL is a stronger league -- after all, there are players
>who have good careers in the NHL.
>
>However, the AHL is truly better.
>
>1) Ticket prices. Average price in the AHL is about $12-15. The IHL is
>more like $18-20, and the really good seats can be $30+. I don't think
>the value is there for those prices.
The OHL ticket prices are lower
>2) Hungrier players in the AHL. I've seen a couple of IHL games. The
>players play like they're working a job. They play a good game, and all
>of them want to win. But they all know that they have no real chance of
>making it back to the NHL unless they get really lucky. So they play
>hard, but not as hard as they would if hard play would win them a trip
>to the NHL.
OHL players are hungrier.
>3) Older players in the IHL. I just computed the average age of IHL
>roster players vs AHL roster players. The IHL came in at just under 27
>years old (26.91) vs just over 24 years old for AHL players (24.1). I
>think that younger players = more willing to give it their all.
Average age in the OHL is 18
>4) Different style of hockey in the AHL. I've seen that myself. The AHL
>tends to be harder working, griding hockey, versus fancy stickwork and
>passing, but players who giveup if the pass doesn't connect in the
>IHL. That was the one big difference I noticed when I saw IHL games --
>if the puck was lost in the offensive zone, the offensive players
>turned around and skated out. But in the AHL, the players go in and dig
>for the puck.
OHL is harder working
>5) People argue that the AHL has many callups so that the good players
>are never in the league. But the IHL has a lot of player movement too
>because if a player isn't performing up to expectations, or just
>doesn't fit in, he gets traded or released. I would say that
>the "fluidity" of an AHL team vs an IHL team is close to the same. I'd
>have to do some analysis on this to prove it though.
Less trades occur in the OHL
>This is one of those discussions that can rage for an eternity, but the
>only way to know for yourself is to see both leagues. If you live in
>Cincinnati, you have that chance because both leagues have a team there.
By your reasoning, the OHL is better than either the "I" or the "A".
---------------------------------------------------
Alex Goddard
You don't ask,
you don't get!
---------------------------------------------------
sla...@rpi.edu
> By your reasoning, the OHL is better than either the "I" or the "A".
Touche. I was addressing the argument that the skill level is higher in
the IHL because so many players played in the NHL at one time or
another. I was taking some implicit things into account that separate
pro leagues from junior leagues. My argument was based on players being
in their prime, and on the skill level of the players in the two
leagues being roughly equal.
When I said that younger players were a point in the AHL's favor, the
implication was that the AHL players are more in their playing prime.
Younger doesn't necessarily mean better, otherwise pee-wee teams would
be the best. OHL players are 16-22 (or thereabouts). But a majority of
them are 16-18, which is not the prime age for a hockey player.
Second, on any given OHL team for a season, most of the players don't
ever go on to play in the NHL, which to me shows that the overall skill
level is lower.
Perhaps 5-10 of the 45 or so players that play for an OHL team in a
season go on to play some games in the NHL, while only 2-3 of them
become NHL regulars. And only an elite number ever go to the NHL
without spending a day in the minors.
At the AHL level, perhaps 30 out of 45 players play some time in the
NHL, with 5-10 of those players going on to become regulars.
The IHL does things differently -- in many cases it takes the player on
the way down, after they've been tried out by the NHL. I would say that
at first those players are playing as well (if not better) as an AHL
player, but once they realize that the NHL has given up on them and
they no longer have a chance, many of them play down to the IHL level.
Alex Goddard
<snip>
>The IHL does things differently -- in many cases it takes the player on
>the way down, after they've been tried out by the NHL. I would say that
>at first those players are playing as well (if not better) as an AHL
>player, but once they realize that the NHL has given up on them and
>they no longer have a chance, many of them play down to the IHL level.
I got your points...I was just emphasizing that effort and quality of entertainment
don't equate with talent level. Also, the IHL is certainly a league more prone
to producing draft picks than other professional leagues. Therefore, you
can't call it a retirement field for old pros. It's a developmental league also.
sla...@rpi.edu
> I got your points...I was just emphasizing that effort and quality of
entertainment
> don't equate with talent level. Also, the IHL is certainly a league
more prone
> to producing draft picks than other professional leagues. Therefore,
you
> can't call it a retirement field for old pros. It's a developmental
league also.
That is definitely true, but only due to a loophole in the NHL's bylaws.
If you're under 18 years old, you can't play in the NHL period. I don't
think you are allowed to play in the AHL either. But the IHL has
relaxed this for underage European players who do not want to play
Junior hockey.
If you're a 17-year old Canadian phenom, you play major junior. You
have no other options. If you're a 17-year old European phenom, you can
either play in the IHL or play major junior.
But to consider the IHL a league that produces draft picks is a bit of
a stretch. It has produced only a couple that I know of -- Dmitri
Kvartalnov (26 at the time), Patrik Stefan, Sergei Samsonov, and Petr
Sykora.
Your point is well taken that talent level does not equal entertainment
value. I saw a pretty entertaining CHL game last year in Fort Worth,
and I'd place it as more entertaining than the last 3 NHL games I've
seen.
Christopher White
better overall product (which includes marketing, etc). I don't like
shootouts... keep that for soccer.
Chris Bailey wrote:
> What's your opinion on which is the better league, the AHL
> or the IHL?
>
> My impression is that recently the NHL is using the AHL more
> than the IHL as its development league, so the AHL has
> younger players that are one step away from the NHL. And
> the IHL is a mix of older players who possibly played in the
> NHL and young prospects for the NHL. i.e. the IHL is
> creating its own market for hockey (attendance) and the AHL
> relies more on the NHL to foot the bill.
>
> In Denver, the 1994/1995 IHL Grizzlies had on their roster:
> Zigmund Palffy, Nicklas Andersen, Kip Miller, Tommy Salo,
> Chris Marinucci, Derek Armstrong, Chris Taylor, Chris
> Luongo, Kevin Dineen's brother (can't remember his first
> name), plus a few other decent players. This seemed to be a
> stronger team than any AHL team I was aware of (at the
> time).
>
> So what's your opinion on which is the stronger league now a
> days & why?
>
> Chris Bailey
Cordial Boy!
>What's your opinion on which is the better league, the AHL
>or the IHL?
I'm kind of partial to the ECHL myself. Those guys don't have any
delusions of grandeur. And if they do, John Brophy will knock it out
of them soon enough.
Can you imagine growing up as the son of John Brophy?
cordially, as always,
rm
--
"Your flagrant way of misquoting people and changing the context of
their message in doing so is highly entertaining, creative, and if
I'm not mistaken perfectly legal." - Sheldon Rowan