More goals (get rid of center red line) !?
Brad Murray
In article <vn0g1oz...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi>, h11...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi
said...
> I was watching an EHL (European Hockey League) match couple of nights ago
> and the commentators gave an interesting fact. In previous saturday's round
> of NHL and British Premier League (soccer) there were more goals scored per
> match in soccer than in NHL hockey !!
>
> The problem here obviously isn't the improved goal scoring in soccer, but
> the opposite in hockey. Something should be done and one solution would be
> removing the center line. That would make it very hard to play mid-field
> trap-type of defence (you know the way e.g. Devils play) and also icings
> would be dramatically reduced (only shots from behind your own blue line
> would count as icing) thus speeding the counter attacks.
It think it would ruin the game as we know it and it would only take about
15 years before Gretzky's records started falling. The game has always
been great. They don't need to make major rule changes to make it better.
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Josh Lee
WES ROEHL (ro...@nevada.edu) wrote:
: Brad Murray (BradM...@SeeSigIfThere.com) wrote:
: : In article <vn0g1oz...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi>, h11...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi
: : said...
: : > the opposite in hockey. Something should be done and one solution would be
: : > removing the center line. That would make it very hard to play mid-field
: : It think it would ruin the game as we know it and it would only take about
: : been great. They don't need to make major rule changes to make it better.
: : _______________________________________________________________________
: I might not be correct, but wasn't the red line only added sometime in the
: 30s or 40s? I could sware I read a quote from that time that complained
: that the red line was simply another example of the "Americanization" of
: the game!
: Wes
Well atleast we know this opinion of changing the game to suit americans
has been around for quite some time. :)
Josh
kolzig37
> : I might not be correct, but wasn't the red line only added sometime in
the
> : 30s or 40s?
-------------> the red line was added in 1943-44, one of 23 changes made in
the markings on the ice since 1917 -- not sure it can all be blamed on the
"Americanization" of hockey ;-)
>: I could sware I read a quote from that time that complained
> : that the red line was simply another example of the "Americanization"
of
Pam Harwood
kolz...@maine.rr.com
Robert and Sonia Beare
BradM...@SeeSigIfThere.com (Brad Murray) said:
>In article <vn0g1oz...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi>, h11...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi
>said...
>> I was watching an EHL (European Hockey League) match couple of nights ago
>> and the commentators gave an interesting fact. In previous saturday's round
>> of NHL and British Premier League (soccer) there were more goals scored per
>> match in soccer than in NHL hockey !!
>>
>> The problem here obviously isn't the improved goal scoring in soccer, but
>> the opposite in hockey. Something should be done and one solution would be
>> removing the center line. That would make it very hard to play mid-field
>> trap-type of defence (you know the way e.g. Devils play) and also icings
>> would be dramatically reduced (only shots from behind your own blue line
>> would count as icing) thus speeding the counter attacks.
>
>It think it would ruin the game as we know it and it would only take about
>15 years before Gretzky's records started falling. The game has always
>been great. They don't need to make major rule changes to make it better.
all they need to do is call the game as the rulebook sez, something that Mario
was griping about for years before he decided to retire.
ROBO and Sonia
ICQ - 3004798
Eric D. Laurain
Robert and Sonia Beare wrote in message
<348ef15c...@news.mindspring.com>...
>BradM...@SeeSigIfThere.com (Brad Murray) said:
>
>>In article <vn0g1oz...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi>, h11...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi
>>said...
>>> The problem here obviously isn't the improved goal scoring in soccer,
but
>>> the opposite in hockey. Something should be done and one solution would
be
>>> removing the center line. That would make it very hard to play mid-field
>>> trap-type of defence (you know the way e.g. Devils play) and also icings
>>> would be dramatically reduced (only shots from behind your own blue line
>>> would count as icing) thus speeding the counter attacks.
>>
>>It think it would ruin the game as we know it and it would only take about
>>15 years before Gretzky's records started falling. The game has always
>>been great. They don't need to make major rule changes to make it better.
>
Actually, yes, they do. Scoring is /way/ down this year...and it's /way/
down in the playoffs. And say what you will, it's scoring that really
excites the newer fan, and these new fans are just the ones that the NHL
needs to lure into watching the games if they (the NHL ruling body) ever
want to see their sport break into the Big Three. Now, for those that think
the removal of the Red Line would lead to some amazing increase in scoring
remember this: there would still be an offsides rule. I'm a huge fan of
College Hockey, and I get out to see twenty or thirty games a year at the
University of Michigan, so I see a lot of hockey played without a Red Line.
And I have to say it is most definitely more fast-paced than what we see in
the NHL. The puck moves from end to end much more quickly, and that /alone/
creates a great deal more excitement. Nothing is more tedious than watching
two forward lines fumble the puck back and forth between teams while six or
seven guys are crammed into the area between Blue Lines. Are there more
scoring chances? Sure. Are more goals scored? Yep. But the increase isn'
t that incredible. For instance, I had the opportunity to see the
Wolverines for both their Championship and runner-up seasons, so I saw many
games with the best team in college on the ice. Some of the teams Michiagn
played that year (conference opponents) were really, really bad, and were
among the worst big college teams. Even then, the most outrageous score I
saw was 9 or 10 to 0, and that type of talent disparity would /never/ exist
in the pros. What's my point? Simply put, removing the Red Line would
increase scoring a bit (maybe 10 or 15%) but it would increase therate at
which the puck moves up and down the ice by a much greater rate. Maybe then
teams could get away from having to stock their rosters chock full of goons
who skate about as fast as my little cousin skips and move more towards
players who can skate in the open ice and make plays.
Eric D. Laurain
cvl...@ic.net
Whaddaya mean the Internet is a waste of time!
EP Buzzard
>BradM...@SeeSigIfThere.com (Brad Murray) said:
>
>>In article <vn0g1oz...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi>, h11...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi
>>said...
>>> I was watching an EHL (European Hockey League) match couple of nights ago
>>> and the commentators gave an interesting fact. In previous saturday's round
>>> of NHL and British Premier League (soccer) there were more goals scored per
>>> match in soccer than in NHL hockey !!
>>>
>>> The problem here obviously isn't the improved goal scoring in soccer, but
>>> the opposite in hockey. Something should be done and one solution would be
>>> removing the center line. That would make it very hard to play mid-field
>>> trap-type of defence (you know the way e.g. Devils play) and also icings
>>> would be dramatically reduced (only shots from behind your own blue line
>>> would count as icing) thus speeding the counter attacks.
>>
>>It think it would ruin the game as we know it and it would only take about
>>15 years before Gretzky's records started falling. The game has always
>>been great. They don't need to make major rule changes to make it better.
>
>all they need to do is call the game as the rulebook sez, something that Mario
>was griping about for years before he decided to retire.
>
>ROBO and Sonia
>
>ICQ - 3004798
The red line would not be removed, but only the rules pertaining to it
would be altered, or removed. I also heard on ESPN2, only as a
comment, not to be taken seriously, is the one drastic change to
increase play would be to only have 5 guys on the ice at a time. 2
forwards, 2 def. and the goalie. Just like street hockey!
EP Buzzard
Brad Murray
In article <348f562...@news.flash.net>, ove...@flash.net said...
> On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 01:33:44 GMT, be...@mindspring.com (Robert and
> Sonia Beare) wrote:
>
> >BradM...@SeeSigIfThere.com (Brad Murray) said:
> >
> >>In article <vn0g1oz...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi>, h11...@kaarne.cs.tut.fi
> >>said...
> >>> I was watching an EHL (European Hockey League) match couple of nights ago
> >>> and the commentators gave an interesting fact. In previous saturday's round
> >>> of NHL and British Premier League (soccer) there were more goals scored per
> >>> match in soccer than in NHL hockey !!
> >>>
> >>> The problem here obviously isn't the improved goal scoring in soccer, but
> >>> the opposite in hockey. Something should be done and one solution would be
> >>> removing the center line. That would make it very hard to play mid-field
> >>> trap-type of defence (you know the way e.g. Devils play) and also icings
> >>> would be dramatically reduced (only shots from behind your own blue line
> >>> would count as icing) thus speeding the counter attacks.
> >>
> >>It think it would ruin the game as we know it and it would only take about
> >>15 years before Gretzky's records started falling. The game has always
> >>been great. They don't need to make major rule changes to make it better.
> >
> >all they need to do is call the game as the rulebook sez, something that Mario
> >was griping about for years before he decided to retire.
I am for that to an extent. The last thing we need is the refs making the
players afraid to hit like they were in that Detroit-Vancouver debacle the
other night.
> The red line would not be removed, but only the rules pertaining to it
> would be altered, or removed. I also heard on ESPN2, only as a
> comment, not to be taken seriously, is the one drastic change to
> increase play would be to only have 5 guys on the ice at a time. 2
> forwards, 2 def. and the goalie. Just like street hockey!
Changing hockey to 4 on 4 would be a joke. The reason they have to open it
up more in street and roller hockey is that the games are MUCH slower than
ice hockey. All of the other leagues that don't have the red line rules
feature players that are slower than NHL players, so they benefit by the
play being opened up. Remember that the NHL has smaller rinks than just
about every other rink used for hockey in the world. It is designed to be
a tighter, rougher game with less open play.
EP Buzzard
Brad Murray wrote:
> Changing hockey to 4 on 4 would be a joke. The reason they have to open it
> up more in street and roller hockey is that the games are MUCH slower than
> ice hockey. All of the other leagues that don't have the red line rules
> feature players that are slower than NHL players, so they benefit by the
> play being opened up. Remember that the NHL has smaller rinks than just
> about every other rink used for hockey in the world. It is designed to be
> a tighter, rougher game with less open play.
> _______________________________________________________________________
> To join the 1997-1998 hockey boxscore and/or statistic mailing lists,
> go to http://pluto.njcc.com/~bmurray/Hockey.html or send a blank
> message with no subject to NHLBoxs...@lists.advantage.com or
> NHLSt...@lists.advantage.com
I could have sworn I put "Not to be taken seriously"
Vincent Freeman
The best way to fix the whole solution will be showcased this winter in Nagano.
Watch the hockey on the Olympic (International) ice surface. It's a whole new
game. All they have to do is expand the NHL ice surface by a few feet in all
directions. The problem with the NHL is that the players are so much bigger than
yet just as fast as they were back in the good old days (the 70's and 80's) when
scoring was higher. You need more room for the skill players to operate.
Of course this will never happen, because of the owners:
Owner: You want to remove the rinkside seats! You're crazy! I'll lose money!
Vincent Freeman
TAZMAN
Vincent Freeman wrote:
> The best way to fix the whole solution will be showcased this winter in Nagano.
> Watch the hockey on the Olympic (International) ice surface. It's a whole new
> game. All they have to do is expand the NHL ice surface by a few feet in all
> directions. The problem with the NHL is that the players are so much bigger than
> yet just as fast as they were back in the good old days (the 70's and 80's) when
Actually they tend to be faster than the truely good old days (60's and 70's). The
80's
greats are still playing now. Coffey, Greatz, etc. They are faster and bigger and
occasionally have less room to move, but at the same time the game has changed in
MANY ways including more interference, more petty rules (crease) and
stoppage of play....
> scoring was higher. You need more room for the skill players to operate.
>
> Of course this will never happen, because of the owners:
> Owner: You want to remove the rinkside seats! You're crazy! I'll lose money!
Are you sure about that? I doubt you're even close. Wouldn't the expansion of the
rink mean MORE rinkside seats? Hmmm bigger surface area, bigger circum.
Yeah, seem like more seats to me. Second the remaining seats would be able to see
more playable surface. Only potential draw back, less close quarter hits.
One of the main barriers, stated in the late 80's early 90's during expansion and
other
talks, was that there are too many rinks that have restricted expansion possibilities
because of their age. There was no way to fit a bigger surface in without severe
alterations to the arenas or building new ones. This was during recesion time
when no one was talking seriously about new rinks everywhere.
The main problem with with making bigger rinks now is the potnetial for more freakin'
Europeans. Jeezzz! :P
--
Keep your stick on the Ice. -Red Green
TRF
> Vincent Freeman
Rick Streeter
TAZMAN wrote:
> > Of course this will never happen, because of the owners:
> > Owner: You want to remove the rinkside seats! You're crazy! I'll lose money!
>
> Are you sure about that? I doubt you're even close. Wouldn't the expansion of the
> rink mean MORE rinkside seats? Hmmm bigger surface area, bigger circum.
> Yeah, seem like more seats to me.
True you would have more seats in the actual first row, but you would
lose two or more entire rows of seats. I'm pretty sure that the extra
20-30 glass seats would not make up for rows of lost seats that are
nearly, if not just, as expensive.
*******************************************************
Boring is watching a baseball game when you could enjoy
the end-to-end action of a hockey game.
--Larry Wigge
*******************************************************
TAZMAN
Rick Streeter wrote:
> TAZMAN wrote:
>
> > Are you sure about that? I doubt you're even close. Wouldn't the expansion of the
> > rink mean MORE rinkside seats? Hmmm bigger surface area, bigger circum.
> > Yeah, seem like more seats to me.
>
> True you would have more seats in the actual first row, but you would
> lose two or more entire rows of seats. I'm pretty sure that the extra
> 20-30 glass seats would not make up for rows of lost seats that are
> nearly, if not just, as expensive.
You miss one simple, but VERY important point, and that is that the price of tickets is
determined by proximity to the actions/glass, and therefore you don't LOSE anything in
the front rows, you've actually increased the UP AGAINST THE GLASS seats. That was the
issue at hand. Yes if the outline or confines of the rink remain the same you would
theoretically lose front row seats, but only a boob would charge the same price for the
now closer seats, etc. In effect what you are losing is the upper deck, and even the
new nose bleeders can see a better game than before. The barrier to expansion of the
surface is NOT the loss of front row seats, it's the lack of expansion room period.
Increasing the rink size increases the number of front row seats but decrease the
overall number of seats if the rink doesn't expand by the same amount. So saying it's
greedy owners, it short sighted and obviously a biased opinion.
BTW, has anyone bothered to see if there is higher scoring on int'l ice? It could be
just a low as nhl rinks.
--
Keep your stick on the ice. -Red Green
TRF