Detroit clutches and grabs!
Bryon Thur
the Leafs beat the Red Wings in OT 5-4. The game was fast, hard hitting and
both teams showed a lot of skill, determination and hard work.
What I thought was very ironic, though, was the extent to which Detroit
had to clutch and grab to slow down Gilmour and Andreychuk! Toronto is
supposed to be the team that must resort to this crap to win games, but
players like Federov, Yzerman and Konstantinov all took their turns mugging
the Toronto stars in the center ice zone! There was one point in the third
period when Gilmour was basically tackled by Yzerman in the neutral zone,
without a penalty being called (just as a note--Yzerman was sent to the box
on the same play, but it was not because of that particular mugging)... Dave
Andreychuk was continally held, hooked and punched the whole game as well.
The Leafs showed last night that they can play ANY style of hockey, and
still win games.
By the way, it has been mentioned quite often that Dougie is a cheap-shot
artist...but I hope you all happened to notice Probert's hit on Manderville
in the first(?) period... Manderville was mucking along the boards, when all
of a sudden Probert came from behind and smashed him face first into the
glass. Bomber then took on Probert and got the boot from the game for
instigating... Konstantinov, as well, seems well on his way to becoming the
next Ulf Samuelsson or Darius Kasparitis of the NHL...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bryon Thur | The Leafs for the Cup in '94!|
bht...@watarts.uwaterloo.ca | Gilmour for the Hart
University of Waterloo | Potvin for the Vezina!!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pHred...
(Bryon Thur) wrote:
> I watched one of the best hockey games I have seen in ages last night, when
> the Leafs beat the Red Wings in OT 5-4. The game was fast, hard hitting and
> both teams showed a lot of skill, determination and hard work.
> The Leafs showed last night that they can play ANY style of hockey, and
> still win games.
It also shows how Detroit can play any style of hockey only to have the
Refs step in and help decide the outcome of the game
>
> By the way, it has been mentioned quite often that Dougie is a cheap-shot
> artist...but I hope you all happened to notice Probert's hit on Manderville
> in the first(?) period... Manderville was mucking along the boards, when all
> of a sudden Probert came from behind and smashed him face first into the
> glass. Bomber then took on Probert and got the boot from the game for
> instigating...
As further replays show.....Probie came across and was about to check
Manderville from the front.....as he was making the move, Manderville
turned his back and as a result hit him from behind....that type of move
isnt Probert's style....If he was going to take a cheap shot...."bomber"
was right there for the taking and he ignored him.....probert would go
after him over Manderville anyday....
> Konstantinov, as well, seems well on his way to becoming the
> next Ulf Samuelsson or Darius Kasparitis of the NHL...
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bryon Thur | The Leafs for the Cup in '94!|
Thank you for your "insightful comments" Roger Jr.
-pH "the intravenous one"
disarm you with a smile / and leave you like they left me here / to wither
in denial / the bitterness of one who's left alone
-smashing pumpkins
the few..... fred a. locklear
the proud..... fred.l...@med.umich.edu
the molecularneurobiologists..... univ. of michigan biochemistry
Brian Down
> By the way, it has been mentioned quite often that Dougie is a cheap-shot
>artist...but I hope you all happened to notice Probert's hit on Manderville
>in the first(?) period...
Second period, Byron.
>Manderville was mucking along the boards, when all
>of a sudden Probert came from behind and smashed him face first into the
>glass.
Hmmmm.....Manderville.....wasn't he the guy who ran the helmet-less
Konstantinov from behind in the Wing/Leaf game a couple of Saturday's
ago?? He got a major and a game misconduct. Konstantinov required a
few stitches for the resulting cut.
Were you trying to make a point Byron??
>Bomber then took on Probert and got the boot from the game for
>instigating...
That's not all he got! :-)
>Konstantinov, as well, seems well on his way to becoming the
>next Ulf Samuelsson or Darius Kasparitis of the NHL...
If you're looking to compare him to a cheap-shot defenceman,
look no further than #34 in the blue and white.
Or were you just commenting on his offensive prowess? He got two
goals last night, I believe.
But, speaking of Leaf defenceman, it was nice seeing the Todd Gill
of old emerge last night. I wonder when Burns will have him out
during the dying minutes of a hockey game again?
Brian Down (bd...@vis.toronto.edu)
Sean Farrell
In a previous article, bht...@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (Bryon Thur) says:
> I watched one of the best hockey games I have seen in ages last night, when
>the Leafs beat the Red Wings in OT 5-4. The game was fast, hard hitting and
>both teams showed a lot of skill, determination and hard work.
>
> What I thought was very ironic, though, was the extent to which Detroit
>had to clutch and grab to slow down Gilmour and Andreychuk! Toronto is
>supposed to be the team that must resort to this crap to win games, but
>players like Federov, Yzerman and Konstantinov all took their turns mugging
>the Toronto stars in the center ice zone! There was one point in the third
>period when Gilmour was basically tackled by Yzerman in the neutral zone,
>without a penalty being called (just as a note--Yzerman was sent to the box
>on the same play, but it was not because of that particular mugging)... Dave
>Andreychuk was continally held, hooked and punched the whole game as well.
>
> The Leafs showed last night that they can play ANY style of hockey, and
>still win games.
>
> By the way, it has been mentioned quite often that Dougie is a cheap-shot
>artist...but I hope you all happened to notice Probert's hit on Manderville
>in the first(?) period... Manderville was mucking along the boards, when all
>of a sudden Probert came from behind and smashed him face first into the
>glass. Bomber then took on Probert and got the boot from the game for
>instigating... Konstantinov, as well, seems well on his way to becoming the
>next Ulf Samuelsson or Darius Kasparitis of the NHL...
>
Well, I don't need to say much, 'cause everyone else has. One point
though:
Berg, wearing jersey #10... You wanna talk cheap shots?? He won't even
face the music either. Nuff said.
GO WINGS
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Farrell |This week's best quote from the Improv:
ug...@freenet.victoria.bc.ca |"If you are what you eat, I could
sfar...@amtsgi.bc.ca | be you by morning"
Bryon Thur
pHred... <fred.l...@med.umich.edu> wrote:
>In article <CLBwD...@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>, bht...@watarts.uwaterloo.ca
>(Bryon Thur) wrote:
>
>> I watched one of the best hockey games I have seen in ages last night, when
>> the Leafs beat the Red Wings in OT 5-4. The game was fast, hard hitting and
>> both teams showed a lot of skill, determination and hard work.
>
>> The Leafs showed last night that they can play ANY style of hockey, and
>> still win games.
>
>It also shows how Detroit can play any style of hockey only to have the
>Refs step in and help decide the outcome of the game
No, it shows that the Leafs can play a quick offensive style of hockey, and
force other teams to clutch and grab.
>>
>> By the way, it has been mentioned quite often that Dougie is a cheap-shot
>> artist...but I hope you all happened to notice Probert's hit on Manderville
>> in the first(?) period... Manderville was mucking along the boards, when all
>> of a sudden Probert came from behind and smashed him face first into the
>> glass. Bomber then took on Probert and got the boot from the game for
>> instigating...
>
>As further replays show.....Probie came across and was about to check
>Manderville from the front.....as he was making the move, Manderville
>turned his back and as a result hit him from behind....that type of move
>isnt Probert's style....If he was going to take a cheap shot...."bomber"
>was right there for the taking and he ignored him.....probert would go
>after him over Manderville anyday....
Yeah. That makes sense. Probert should go after the other teams enforcer
instead of someone who has a little bit of talent. Probert ignored Bomber
because he knew that Bomber was going to step in anyways.
>
>> Konstantinov, as well, seems well on his way to becoming the
>> next Ulf Samuelsson or Darius Kasparitis of the NHL...
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Bryon Thur | The Leafs for the Cup in '94!|
>
>Thank you for your "insightful comments" Roger Jr.
>
>-pH "the intravenous one"
>
>disarm you with a smile / and leave you like they left me here / to wither
>in denial / the bitterness of one who's left alone
> -smashing pumpkins
>
>the few..... fred a. locklear
>the proud..... fred.l...@med.umich.edu
>the molecularneurobiologists..... univ. of michigan biochemistry
Bryon
Darren Keyes
>> By the way, it has been mentioned quite often that Dougie is a cheap-shot
>>artist...but I hope you all happened to notice Probert's hit on Manderville
>>in the first(?) period... Manderville was mucking along the boards, when all
>>of a sudden Probert came from behind and smashed him face first into the
>>glass. Bomber then took on Probert and got the boot from the game for
>>instigating... Konstantinov, as well, seems well on his way to becoming the
>>next Ulf Samuelsson or Darius Kasparitis of the NHL...
>>
Probie is not the cleanest player but let's get things straight. If
you watched the Feb 5th game, you may recall Manderville (I'm sure it was
him) laying a total check from behind on Konstantinov resulting in a 5
minute major to Manderville. Probie was just giving PAY BACK, as is his job,
just as it is Baumer's job to jump in and get beat up over it.
>
>Berg, wearing jersey #10... You wanna talk cheap shots?? He won't even
>face the music either. Nuff said.
Berg's illegal foot sweep on Konstantinov was a carbon copy of a
hit/foot sweep from a Detroit player on a Leaf earlier in the game(I don't
remember who). The only difference is that Detroit got a penalty for it.
Let's just be fair about it - both these teams can play dirty/aggressive.
Wood.
Roger Maynard
> Probie is not the cleanest player but let's get things straight. If
>you watched the Feb 5th game, you may recall Manderville (I'm sure it was
>him) laying a total check from behind on Konstantinov resulting in a 5
>minute major to Manderville. Probie was just giving PAY BACK, as is his job,
>just as it is Baumer's job to jump in and get beat up over it.
No this is not true. Probert's "job" is play hockey. One of the less desir-
able features of his style is that he intimidates opponents. "Payback" as
you put it is the responsibility of the league through the referees.
Manderville was "paid back" with a 5 minute major. Probert was simply trying
to intimidate Manderville. Whether this intimidation was motivated by a
past action on Manderville's part is entirely conjectural. I seriously
doubt that Bob Probert has enough brain cells left to remember the incidents
that happened in a game a week ago but again this is pure conjecture on my
part.
cordially, as always,
rm
--
Roger Maynard
may...@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
MROZ
>From: bd...@vis.toronto.edu (Brian Down)
>Subject: Re: Detroit clutches and grabs!
>Date: 16 Feb 94 20:39:11 GMT
>bht...@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (Bryon Thur) writes:
>> By the way, it has been mentioned quite often that Dougie is a cheap-shot
>>artist...but I hope you all happened to notice Probert's hit on Manderville
>>in the first(?) period...
>Second period, Byron.
Fair correction, but did you have to make it sound like you one an arguement?
>>Manderville was mucking along the boards, when all
>>of a sudden Probert came from behind and smashed him face first into the
>>glass.
>Hmmmm.....Manderville.....wasn't he the guy who ran the helmet-less
>Konstantinov from behind in the Wing/Leaf game a couple of Saturday's
>ago?? He got a major and a game misconduct. Konstantinov required a
>few stitches for the resulting cut.
>Were you trying to make a point Byron??
Great! konstantiknob is vindicated! Hey, its revenge after all.
Go back to the middle ages.
>>Bomber then took on Probert and got the boot from the game for
>>instigating...
>That's not all he got! :-)
Yeah, he also got in a good may hits on Probert.
>>Konstantinov, as well, seems well on his way to becoming the
>>next Ulf Samuelsson or Darius Kasparitis of the NHL...
>If you're looking to compare him to a cheap-shot defenceman,
>look no further than #34 in the blue and white.
Macoun is not a cheap shot artist, he just lacks the finess to esthetisize
his tactics.
>Or were you just commenting on his offensive prowess? He got two
>goals last night, I believe.
Two goals, takes him right up there in the early teens, eh?
>But, speaking of Leaf defenceman, it was nice seeing the Todd Gill
>of old emerge last night. I wonder when Burns will have him out
>during the dying minutes of a hockey game again?
Gill is a fine, capable player. Every player makes little errors, even
Konstantiknob.
____________________________________________________________________________
| |
| TORONTO MAPLE LEAFS 99999 _/\_ 4 4 |
| 1994 Stanley Cup Champions 9 9 -\| |/- 4 4 |
| 99999 `______' 44444 |
| (even without Foligno) 9 ' || ` 4 |
| 9 4 |
|__________________________________________________________________________|
Daniel T. Burton
(Roger Maynard) says:
>
>No this is not true. Probert's "job" is play hockey. One of the less desir-
>able features of his style is that he intimidates opponents. "Payback" as
>you put it is the responsibility of the league through the referees.
>Manderville was "paid back" with a 5 minute major. Probert was simply trying
>to intimidate Manderville.
I agree that the hit Probert put on Manderville has no place in the game.
However, that is not Probert's style. Yes, he is extremely aggressive,
but checks from behind are almost non-existent for Bobby. I've been
watching the Wings religiously since Probert joined the team and that
is the first time I can remember that he did that. Also, he keeps his
stick down and out of player's faces unlike half of the league. I have
no problem with a player fighting to intimidate opponents. It's a relatively
safe way to keep the game under control and protect the weaker but
more talented players. You will also find that Probert doesn't go after
star players like some of the other "tough guys" of the league. His
fighting is mainly restricted to protection of his team and the obvious
occasions when he takes on the big-time fighters to battle for the
heavyweight crown. Also, don't forget the fact that he can also play
the game.
---------------------------
Daniel T. Burton "I love it when a plan comes together"
Central Michigan University -Hannibal
32d...@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu
---------------------------
Bryon Thur
Darren Keyes <d...@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
> Probie is not the cleanest player but let's get things straight. If
>you watched the Feb 5th game, you may recall Manderville (I'm sure it was
>him) laying a total check from behind on Konstantinov resulting in a 5
>minute major to Manderville. Probie was just giving PAY BACK, as is his job,
>just as it is Baumer's job to jump in and get beat up over it.
>
of weeks to do it seems to be a little dirtier. I'll agree with you, though,
that Manderville's shot a couple of weeks ago was illegal, and as dirty as
Probies was.
>>
>>Berg, wearing jersey #10... You wanna talk cheap shots?? He won't even
>>face the music either. Nuff said.
>
> Berg's illegal foot sweep on Konstantinov was a carbon copy of a
>hit/foot sweep from a Detroit player on a Leaf earlier in the game(I don't
>remember who). The only difference is that Detroit got a penalty for it.
>
>Let's just be fair about it - both these teams can play dirty/aggressive.
Again, I'll agree with you here, but it should be noted that the Wings
played a VERY chippy and clutchy game on Tuesday, and they got away with far
more penalties than the Leafies did!
>
>Wood.
Bryon Thur
Daniel T. Burton <32D...@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> wrote:
>In article <2k0c8q$c...@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>, may...@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca
>(Roger Maynard) says:
>>
>>able features of his style is that he intimidates opponents. "Payback" as
>>you put it is the responsibility of the league through the referees.
>>Manderville was "paid back" with a 5 minute major. Probert was simply trying
>>to intimidate Manderville.
>
>However, that is not Probert's style. Yes, he is extremely aggressive,
>but checks from behind are almost non-existent for Bobby. I've been
>watching the Wings religiously since Probert joined the team and that
>is the first time I can remember that he did that. Also, he keeps his
>stick down and out of player's faces unlike half of the league. I have
>no problem with a player fighting to intimidate opponents.
I have no problem acknowledging that Probert is a great fighter and that
he has a little more talent than most goons, but he does get his stick up,
and when he is riled up, he basically forgets how to play the game of hockey,
and his goal becomes "ugh, kill". Does everyone remember Probert taking a
chunk off of Rouse's helmet in last years playoffs?
>
> ---------------------------
> Daniel T. Burton "I love it when a plan comes together"
> Central Michigan University -Hannibal
> 32d...@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu
> ---------------------------
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COONEY JOHN AIDAN
I would tend to agree with the previous post Monsieur Maynard - even if
Probie has no recollection of the incident, I'm sure his teammates do :)
For attempts to seriously injure, all many players believe that a penalty
or a suspension is nothing when compared to a career ending injury (just
ask Cam Neely about Ulfie or Wendel Clark about Slava Fetisov). And your
comments about conjecturing? Half the fun on these groups (especially
the sports ones) comes from conjecture! Would you have it outlawed if you
moderated this group? There is nothing wrong with being elegant and using
words with more than one syllable (sp?), but next time pay a little more
attention to context when you're making your argument. It's a great
rivalry these two teams have - I hope they finish 1-2 in the conference
so the showdown between the best two teams in the west (grin!) happens
at the right time. I now will conjecture that Dave Andreychuck will lose
the goal scoring race to Ray Sheppard (actually, I think the correct
word is predict, but who cares!)
Jack Cooney
Jack Cooney - coo
--
Jack Cooney
coo...@ecf.toronto.edu
University of Toronto
"Life is lived looking forwards, but is only understood looking backwards."
Roger Maynard
> I would tend to agree with the previous post Monsieur Maynard - even if
>Probie has no recollection of the incident, I'm sure his teammates do :)
>For attempts to seriously injure, all many players believe that a penalty
>or a suspension is nothing when compared to a career ending injury (just
>ask Cam Neely about Ulfie or Wendel Clark about Slava Fetisov). And your
Perhaps the biggest argument in your favour is the much bally-hooed "title"
bout between Probert and Domi last season. I was obviously exaggerating
when I suggested that the brain cells of Probert et al, were frozen. But
the real point that I am trying to make here is that it is not the "job"
of players to be penalizing opponents who get out of line. That is the
referee's job. The fact is, if Probert does have a job, other than to
play hockey, it is to get out of line. Domi's primary function is to
intimidate, not defend. As long as people use the policeman argument
to justify the existence of the goon then hockey will feature goons and it
will appeal to crowds of goons and as a sport it will rank somewhat closer
to professional wrestling than I myself would like to see.
>comments about conjecturing? Half the fun on these groups (especially
>the sports ones) comes from conjecture! Would you have it outlawed if you
>moderated this group? There is nothing wrong with being elegant and using
Outlawed? If this group was actually moderated do you think that you
would be reading contributions from myself? If you read my post again
I think you will see that I admit to using conjecture myself with respect
to Mr. Probert's motives.
>It's a great
>rivalry these two teams have - I hope they finish 1-2 in the conference
>so the showdown between the best two teams in the west (grin!) happens
>at the right time. I now will conjecture that Dave Andreychuck will lose
>the goal scoring race to Ray Sheppard (actually, I think the correct
>word is predict, but who cares!)
The two best teams in the conference are Toronto and St. Louis. Sorry, but
Dallas, Detroit and Calgary are all a cut below. Too many candy-ass forwards
and not enough goaltending.
Chuck LaPointe
:
: The two best teams in the conference are Toronto and St. Louis. Sorry, but
: Dallas, Detroit and Calgary are all a cut below. Too many candy-ass forwards
: and not enough goaltending.
:
: cordially, as always,
:
: rm
: --
I've read a few posts concerning your intelligence recently and I just assumed
these were your normal ignorant flames. Now I'm not to sure.
-
C. LaPointe
*
* *
* * * * *
* * * * *
* * GO WINGS *
* *** * *
* *** * * * *
* * * *
* * *
Steve Hiss
> Roger Maynard (may...@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca) wrote:
> :
> : The two best teams in the conference are Toronto and St. Louis. Sorry, but
> : Dallas, Detroit and Calgary are all a cut below. Too many candy-ass forwards
> : and not enough goaltending.
> :
> : cordially, as always,
> :
> : rm
> : --
I, for one, am a Dallas Stars fan, and I rate the top teams in the conference as
follows:
1. Detroit
2. Calgary
3. Toronto
4. Dallas
5. Chicago
6. Vancouver
7. St. Louis
8. Los Angeles
I guess we'll just have to wait until the season ends to see how accurate these
predictions are.
Steve
Mike Lanasa
>Hmmmm.....Manderville.....wasn't he the guy who ran the helmet-less
>Konstantinov from behind in the Wing/Leaf game a couple of Saturday's
>ago?? He got a major and a game misconduct. Konstantinov required a
>few stitches for the resulting cut.
From BlackHawk fans across the contintent who saw Konstantinov cross check
Jocelyn Lemieux in the mouth and knock out three of his teeth and give him
over 100 stitches inside and out of his mouth (undtected, unpenalized and
unsuspended), we say "Aww, too bad Vladimir." Every dog has his day.
>Brian Down (bd...@vis.toronto.edu)
Michael Lanasa
Mroz
>From: may...@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
>Subject: Re: Detroit clutches and grabs!
Perhaps Dallas is a cut below, but Detroit (and possibly Calgary) are very
high-calibre teams. I would even venture that St.Louis is Below Average.
Of course, the Buds are the best in the Conf.
Brian Down
>From BlackHawk fans across the contintent who saw Konstantinov cross check
>Jocelyn Lemieux in the mouth and knock out three of his teeth and give him
>over 100 stitches inside and out of his mouth (undtected, unpenalized and
>unsuspended), we say "Aww, too bad Vladimir."
It'll be interesting to see if BlackHawk fans around the continent sing
the same song should Eric Dejardin issue some payback to Jeremy Roenick
who, in his second year, crosschecked Dejardin from behind, mouth first
into the crossbar knocking out teeth and causing stitches.
I suspect they won't.
They, like most fans, will scream for the opposition's head,
while turning a blind eye to infractions committed by players on
the team they cheer for. By the way, is Chelios playing, or is he
still suspended??
> Every dog has his day.
Vlad's "day" probably would have been when Wendel Clark
caught him in the mouth with a stick knocking out a tooth and
cutting him for 40+ sticthes inside the mouth. No penalty, no suspension.
>Michael Lanasa
Brian Down (bd...@vis.toronto.edu)
Terry Sheen
> From BlackHawk fans across the contintent who saw Konstantinov cross check
> Jocelyn Lemieux in the mouth and knock out three of his teeth and give him
> over 100 stitches inside and out of his mouth (undtected, unpenalized and
> unsuspended), we say "Aww, too bad Vladimir." Every dog has his day.
>
> >Brian Down (bd...@vis.toronto.edu)
>
> Michael Lanasa
Remember who RAN at who in this collision. If I remember correctly, Vladimir
was standing at the Blue Line and Jocelyn took the mighty run at him. Seeing
Lemieux's elbow flying at his face, he put up the stick to protect himself.
Not saying that Vlad did the right thing, but we need to keep these incidents
in context. You can't just make a statement above without giving the
entire situation.
P.S.
Shouldn't Lemieux have gotten 4 minutes for biting Vlad's stick?
---
/*************************************************************************/
/* Terrence T. Sheen *** Electronic Data Systems */
/* sh...@dps.cos.eds.com *** Product Development and Implementation */
/*************************************************************************/
Sam Gaylord
<stuff deleted>
: P.S.
: Shouldn't Lemieux have gotten 4 minutes for biting Vlad's stick?
That's a double minor for holding the stick (with the teeth). ;-)
: ---
: /*************************************************************************/
: /* Terrence T. Sheen *** Electronic Data Systems */
: /* sh...@dps.cos.eds.com *** Product Development and Implementation */
: /*************************************************************************/
samg