Bure vs. Amonte vs. Lidstrom
Jeff Harrison
That would probably have to be Amonte this year based on stats.
But are stats all that matter in the voting. Shouldn't contribution
to the team also count. People feel that whoever has the most points
at the end of the season wins, but that isn't necessarily valid.
Bure won't catch Amonte or Lidstrom in points.
However, that doesn't mean he has had lesser of a rookie season.
In fact, I tend to think he has had a better season if you include
all the various factors (ie. games played, culture shock, line mates,
etc.)
Bure is the best rookie, but Amonte will win ROY.
Let me put it this way.
Phone the GM of your favourite team and ask him if he would trade
his top rookie (ie. Amonte, Lidstrom, Audette, Todd, etc.) for Bure.
I have a real hard time believing that Smith or Murray would turn down
a trade offer like that. Go ahead. Phone them. Make my day :-)
Jeff
Christopher J. Rueb
>Ok. The Calder is given to the rookie who has the best season.
>That would probably have to be Amonte this year based on stats.
>But are stats all that matter in the voting. Shouldn't contribution
>to the team also count.
LAst time I checked (TODAY) the Rnagers were the best team in the NHL
People feel that whoever has the most points
(Whatever it means the award goes to "the player selected as the most
proficient in his first year of competition in the NHL")
>at the end of the season wins, but that isn't necessarily valid.
Really Fedorov had 79 points last year I don't think Belfour did!!
Actually year after year I think this award does the best job
(This is a tough year I do think)
90 Makarov over Modano OK but the changed the rules after this one
89 Leetch over Linden
88 Nieuwendyk over Sheppard Tough call NOT
87 Robitaille over Hextall both had great years
86 Suter over W. Clark why not
85 Lemieux over Chelios no problem
84 Barrasso over Yzerman I liked Yzerman here
83 LArmer over Housley edge to Larmer
82 Hawerchuk over Pederson and N. Broten good choice in a tough year
81 Stastny over L. Murphy Stastny easy
80 Borque over Foligno
79 B. Smith over Ryan Walter very easy call
78 Bossy over Barry Beck can;t believe Beck got votes!!
77 Willi Plett over Don Murdoch Bure would have won this year!!
76 Trottier over Resch
etc. etc. etc.
>Bure won't catch Amonte or Lidstrom in points.
>However, that doesn't mean he has had lesser of a rookie season.
NO but he had lesser points maybe the Conn Smythe can be his
>In fact, I tend to think he has had a better season if you include
>all the various factors (ie. games played, culture shock, line mates,
>etc.)
What about the greenhouse effect?
>Bure is the best rookie, but Amonte will win ROY.
>Let me put it this way.
>Phone the GM of your favourite team and ask him if he would trade
>his top rookie (ie. Amonte, Lidstrom, Audette, Todd, etc.) for Bure.
I'm not sure on Pat Falloon but the others I would take Bure
>I have a real hard time believing that Smith or Murray would turn down
>a trade offer like that. Go ahead. Phone them. Make my day :-)
Got a busy signal. Others must already be trying to call!!
Brian Down
>Ok. The Calder is given to the rookie who has the best season.
>That would probably have to be Amonte this year based on stats.
>But are stats all that matter in the voting. Shouldn't contribution
>to the team also count.
Well, if you consider +/- as a stat, Lidstrom leads all rookies and
led the league for a good part of the season. I think it is a good
measure (lower bound) of a defenceman's contribution to the team.
>People feel that whoever has the most points
>at the end of the season wins, but that isn't necessarily valid.
I'd heard that whichever team produced the best highlight video
and sent it to the most sports writers would have their rookie
selected as the Calder winner. :-)
>Bure won't catch Amonte or Lidstrom in points.
>However, that doesn't mean he has had lesser of a rookie season.
>In fact, I tend to think he has had a better season if you include
>all the various factors (ie. games played, culture shock, line mates,
>etc.)
I think the "games played" is an important point. Most European
rookies find 80 games a long season. Since Bure missed the first
15-16 games, this could work to his (and Vancouver's) advantage when
it comes to the playoffs. However, we simply won't know what a
full season would have brought for him. (ie: He could have been tired
in his 75th game and gotten nailed, or he could have been excited and
scored 5 goals.)
>Bure is the best rookie, but Amonte will win ROY.
I don't think there is any doubt Bure has the most offensive
talent in this year's rookie crop. I don't think Lidstrom will
win given recent history. (Belfour over Fedorov, and Borasso
over Yzerman). But I think he should. :-) However, seeing how the
Rangers are in a media hotbed and lead the league, you are probably
correct: Amonte.
>Let me put it this way.
>Phone the GM of your favourite team and ask him if he would trade
>his top rookie (ie. Amonte, Lidstrom, Audette, Todd, etc.) for Bure.
>I have a real hard time believing that Smith or Murray would turn down
>a trade offer like that.
I really couldn't see Murray trading Lidstrom for Bure. Good
defencemen are hard to come by. I could see him trading any
forward other than Yzerman, Fedorov or Probert for Bure though....:-)
Bure is a great hockey talent. I just think it'd be a shame to give
him the Calder for playing three quaters of a season.
>Jeff
Brian Down (bd...@vis.toronto.edu)
JXR...@psuvm.psu.edu
play all that much, but I have seen Amonte a lot and he's a hell of a player.
I know playing on the same line withe Messier, Graves, and Leetch can make
just about any look good, but the key is he has put forth a good performance.
The guy has produced any way you look at it, and if he wins ROY then he
deserves it, and if Bure or Lidstrom win it then they deserve it also, but I
don't buy this crap the only reason he's so good is that he plays with Messier
and company.
Joe
Gary L Dare
>
>I know playing on the same line withe Messier, Graves, and Leetch can
>make just about any look good, but the key is he has put forth a good
>performance.
Considering that others who have stepped into that position include
Joey Kocur and Tie Domi, and they never did anything with it, that
might serve as a good zero-calibration to judge Tony Amonte's work.
(-;
Amonte's a rising star, no doubt; I was afraid that he'd have some
attitude problems since he punched a ref during an exhibition series
of USA Juniors vs. Dynamo Riga the Christmas prior to last. It looks
like he's turned out to be part of Neil Smith's "golden touch" this
season. As for who deserves the Calder, this is going to be one of
those unfair years ... an embarassment of riches.
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare The number of Canadians who --
> g...@cunixB.cc.columbia.EDU approve of Brian Mulroney: 11%*
> g...@cunixc.BITNET believe Elvis is alive: 15%
Kenneth Ewert
Maybe its hometown loyalty but................
I've seen Bure play a couple of times (mostly on TV) but a couple of times
live. He is just marvelous! You'd swear he was born with skates on. Not
to say the other 2 aren't good players, but I think for the amount of time
that Bure has been here in Vancouver, (and Canada for that matter) he has done
exceptionally well. If you watch him play, he is one of the few players that
actually show a love for the game, *while* they are playing it. Everytime he
scores, or makes the play, you just can't help but to cheer. Like I said, it
may be hometown loyalty but Bure has my vote.
Ken
-------------------------------
a not so serious sports fan............
RXS...@psuvm.psu.edu
Bure is a great player, but he has a lot of short-comings. Bure is not the
type of player that Amonte is. Bure is a free-wheeling hot-dogging fun to
watch hockey player. Amonte is a hard working, dedicated, net crashing
specialist. I have seen Bure play and he doesn't give one hundred percent
unless he has the puck. And then he takes off! WOW! But Amonte is the guy
you don't here much about until you look at his stats. You watch a game and
you'll miss the small little things he does. He will never give up on any
play. Messier loves to set up plays, Bure loves to make plays happen by
himself (and to his credit he does) But Amonte works well with Messier cuz
he does the things you don't see. Amonte for the Calder, he deserves it.
Look at his scoring in the end stretch of the season.
Robert Surh
rxs...@psuvm.psu.edu
hu...@reg.triumf.ca
>I have to say that Amonte is by far my choice for rookie of the year. I think
Preface - I am a LONG-time habs fan. Nevertheless the Rangers look very
good, and Messier is a sure bet for MVP - probably should have won it a
couple of times in Edmonton instead of Gretzky. Also, Vancouver looks
like they may be a team which will dominate in the '90s -
Bure is in the eye of the beholder. He is a complete hockey player -
next time you watch Vancouver, check out his defensive play. You don't
kill penalties if you don't put out 100 %. Even strength he is often
the first forward back (unless he has been held up at the other end), and
plays his position very well in the defensive zone. He's not afraid to
dig along the boards and can dish out some physical checks as well.
With respect, I disagree that he is a hot-dog. Football players who run
backwards into the endzone or do back flips are hot-dogs. Tiger Williams
was a hot-dog when he used to ride down the ice on his stick when
celebrating a goal. Ty Domie is a hot-dog after any fight .
Bure - like Gretzky, Lemieux, etc is a very talented Hockey player with
GREAT moves - and he's not afraid to use them.
There are a lot of very good rookies this year - Amonte, Bure, Dionne,
Faloon, Lidstrom etc. - Is Lindros waiting for a soft year?
Joel Murray
>
> Msg-ID: <92088.174...@psuvm.psu.edu>
> Posted: 28 Mar 92 22:43:46 GMT
>
> Org. : Penn State University
>
> Amonte for the Calder, he deserves it.
> Look at his scoring in the end stretch of the season.
Hmm. Look at Bure's scoring in the end stretch of the season: 19 goals in 19
games...
--
Joel Murray / Vancouver, British Columbia / Canada, Eh?
Joel_...@mindlink.bc.ca CIS: 73200,3117
Ligneous and petrous projectiles can potentially fracture my osseous
structure, but pejorative appellations will forever remain innocuous.
Michael J. Messina
In article <1992Mar26.2...@mprgate.mpr.ca>, harr...@mprgate.mpr.ca
(Jeff Harrison) says:
>
>Ok. The Calder is given to the rookie who has the best season.
>That would probably have to be Amonte this year based on stats.
>But are stats all that matter in the voting. Shouldn't contribution
>to the team also count.
the teams power play, kills penalties, is in the top four +/- the whole year,
is in the top two rookie scoring leaders all year, and plays every game of the
season would get my vote. Since the Calder is voted on by people who are a
little less biased than us fans, I believe Lidstrom will win the Calder.
Bure won't win because he didn't play enough games. He is the most talented
forward of the rookies, but 60 games is not a season. If he wins it would be
a shame. Amonte has a strong case: rookie scoring leader, 30 some goals, full
season, plays in a large media center (which could be the deciding factor).
Faloon is a good player on a really bad team, no chance. Kevin Todd: just
not enough hype for him. Good season though.
>Bure won't catch Amonte or Lidstrom in points.
>However, that doesn't mean he has had lesser of a rookie season.
Bure is having an excellent rookie season, but with all this talk of points it
should be remembered that Lidstrom is a defenseman. Amonte and Lidstrom have
battled all year for the rookie scoring leader. Who was the last defenseman to
do this?
>In fact, I tend to think he has had a better season if you include
>all the various factors (ie. games played, culture shock, line mates, etc.)
If games played is a factor to consider, not playing a full 80 game season
works to a soviet players advantage. The final 15-20 games of last season cost
Fedorov the Calder. Most fans would agree that after about game number 60
rookie soviets are finished, we won't know if this would be true for Bure.
How does culture shock fit in to the picture?
>
>Let me put it this way.
>Phone the GM of your favourite team and ask him if he would trade
>his top rookie (ie. Amonte, Lidstrom, Audette, Todd, etc.) for Bure.
>I have a real hard time believing that Smith or Murray would turn down
>a trade offer like that. Go ahead. Phone them. Make my day :-)
>
>Jeff
Sorry Jeff, Murray would not trade Lidstrom for Bure, He is not a fool.
Show me a GM who would trade a top-notch rookie defenseman for a top-notch
rookie forward, and I'll show you the GM of a losing team.
Murray is in the business of stealing talent from other teams, not giving it
up.
Mike.
bam!
> Bure is having an excellent rookie season, but with all this talk of points it
> should be remembered that Lidstrom is a defenseman. Amonte and Lidstrom have
> battled all year for the rookie scoring leader. Who was the last defenseman to
> do this?
Brian Leetch was the top rookie scorer in his debut year and also set
the NHL record for most goals by a rookie defenseman (24). Naturally,
he won the Calder Trophy. Teammate Tony Granato was also a strong
candidate that year with 36 goals to lead all rookies. However,
Vancouver fans bitched and moaned that the award should have gone to
Linden, who had less total points than Leetch and less goals than
Granato. Go figure.
---
Bill Moakler | LPO 10280 PO Box 5064
rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!moakler (UUCP) | New Brunswick, NJ 08903
moa...@remus.rutgers.edu (arpa) | [!RUTGERS ANIME!]
!ALLERGIC TO J-POP!
> Mike.
Chris Adams
>Linden, who had less total points than Leetch and less goals than
>Granato. Go figure.
*Go figure*?
Leetch was probably the right choice. Linden would have also been a
good choice since his 30+ goals were scored while playing on one of the
lowest scoring teams in the league (bottom two teams?). Vancouver had
a decent year that year by emphasizing defence much like the Habs this
year. Linden also provided intangibles like leadership. Not too many
rookies provide leadership. I think that Linden became a team captain
by his second year. There isn't a statistic for character however.
Chris