Gil STein will change the NHL
Susan Dart
It looks like Gil Stein will change hockey in a very positive way.
Last night I heard that he will outlaw fighting in the NHL. He's also
going to get national TV contracts (not just the sportschannel
nonsense).
It's going to be a very exciting year for the NHL. I think the
player's strike last season is the best thing that could have happened
to the NHL since it got rid of Ziegler and broke the "old boys
network" of hockey owners. It also looks like the NHL will be
dominated by the American team owners rather than the Canadian ones.
Susan Dart
ASSIST Coordination Site
>
>It looks like Gil Stein will change hockey in a very positive way.
>Last night I heard that he will outlaw fighting in the NHL. He's also
>going to get national TV contracts (not just the sportschannel
>nonsense).
>
of the excitement of going to hockey games is some of the
tension between the players. I agree with the rules about
extra penalties for a third man entering the fight, charging,
etc. However, a one-on-one fight between two players as long
as it is not continual and is not too disruptive of the playing
of the game often gives the game some added spark. (And I have
never seen the players do any real harm to each other while
fighting! In fact, I've seen more injury done on slashing
and high-sticking infractions then in any fight). I would
like to hear what others think . . . ** Kris **
--
===========================
Kris Myers |
kr...@fs2.assist.uci.edu |
===========================
Gerald Olchowy
>player's strike last season is the best thing that could have happened
>to the NHL since it got rid of Ziegler and broke the "old boys
>network" of hockey owners. It also looks like the NHL will be
>dominated by the American team owners rather than the Canadian ones.
>
The NHL has always been dominated by American team owners...
Bill Wirtz and his flunky Ziegler have run the NHL for the last
couple of decades.
Most of the Canadian teams would not be in the NHL had not they
forced their way in by starting a rival league.
Bruce McNall, Wirtz's replacement as chairman of the board, is
a Canadian...for the first time in memory, the executive committee
of owners will have more Canadians than Americans...McNall, Pocklington,
Cory (and Illitch and Snyder).
The anti-TV force in the NHL was Wirtz...an American.
Gerald
Gary L Dare
Gil Stein has also mentioned putting NHL'ers into the Olympics just
as the NBA Drab Team is doing now, to expose the NHL to people who
might otherwise not know its existence and then follow-up with some
promotion during the season.
gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare Elections 1992-93:
> g...@cunixD.cc.columbia.EDU * Jean Chretien (Canada)
> g...@cunixc.BITNET * H. Ross Perot (USA)
John P. Curcio
>
>as the NBA Drab Team is doing now, to expose the NHL to people who
>might otherwise not know its existence and then follow-up with some
>promotion during the season.
>
Does anybody else have doubts about this? I certainly do. First of
all, the name recognition of the hockey stars in nowhere near that of
the basketball stars playing in this upcoming Olympics. It won't make
a difference to non-hockey fans whether they see (for example) Brian
Leetch or Joe Blow. Secondly, most of the NHL stars (especially the
household names) are Canadian, which means that they will have the
greatest chance of winning. How well will this go over with the
typical non-hockey-watching American audience who thinks that the U.S.
should kick ass in everything?
Of course, my commentary is predicated on the fact that Stein is trying
to use the Olympics as a marketing ploy for the NHL. If not, then I
could be wrong, but if this is what he has in mind, I doubt it will be
very successful....
-JPC
--
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
John P. Curcio Go Bruins! Philips Laboratories
j...@philabs.philips.com 345 Scarborough Road
(914) 945-6442 Briarcliff Manor, NY 10510
Gerald Olchowy
>as the NBA Drab Team is doing now, to expose the NHL to people who
>might otherwise not know its existence and then follow-up with some
>promotion during the season.
>
As per how the NHL operates, they have yet to talk to Hockey Canada
who runs Canada's Olympic hockey program...Hockey Canada would have
to know for certain relatively soon for the 1994 Olympics because
they are already out there recruiting young hockey players to
commit to the national team program, and it is unlikely that
Hockey Canada would pull the rug out from the players who commit
to the program a year from now, when the NHL decides it might want
to do something.
Gerald
vlad
Next time some idiot starts claiming that there is no fighting in hockey
and that NHL hockey fans are the least fighting-loving people on Earth, I
suggest we repost this message.
Next time some jerk complains "Why oh why do American TV news show more
fights that action in hteir hockey highlights?!", I suggest he re-read the
above posting.
The truth is that those of us who love hockey for its action are in the
minority. the majority of NHL hockey fans are like Kris: they cannot enjoy
hockey unless there is fighting.
Employer may disagree
vlad
>as the NBA Drab Team is doing now, to expose the NHL to people who
>might otherwise not know its existence and then follow-up with some
>promotion during the season.
Mr. Steinappears to be a totally foreign phenomenon to the NHL: he seems to
have a three-digit IQ.
Looks like the second to last bastion of the Middle Ages in pro sports is
about to fall prey to those damn smart people. :-)
Employer may disagree
Russell Jaslow
>
>Does anybody else have doubts about this? I certainly do. First of
>all, the name recognition of the hockey stars in nowhere near that of
>the basketball stars playing in this upcoming Olympics. It won't make
>a difference to non-hockey fans whether they see (for example) Brian
>Leetch or Joe Blow.
I think you are reading this wrong. It's the other way around. If the NHL
stars play in the Olympics, then they will be recognized because they played
in the Olympics. Non-hockey fans will most likey recognize names of former
players who played in the Olympics, and never did anything else (Jim Craig),
then current stars of the NHL (Patrick Roy). This will help the NHL in the
long run.
>Secondly, most of the NHL stars (especially the
>household names) are Canadian, which means that they will have the
>greatest chance of winning. How well will this go over with the
>typical non-hockey-watching American audience who thinks that the U.S.
>should kick ass in everything?
>
Perhaps, but remember, the US made it to the finals of the Canada Cup, and
that would certainly help the American players playing if it were to happen in
the Olympics. If the American team is exciting to watch, and can grab a medal
I think that will make the team be accepted by the American public.
>Of course, my commentary is predicated on the fact that Stein is trying
>to use the Olympics as a marketing ploy for the NHL. If not, then I
>could be wrong, but if this is what he has in mind, I doubt it will be
>very successful....
>
Of course this is what he has in mind! What do you think this is? A sport?
:-) :-). It's a business, and I think it would work for the above reasons.
--
Russell Jaslow | Spec Racer #33 Finger Lakes Region | My employer
Eastman Kodak Company | In memorium: Andrew Spiller | has nothing
Rochester, New York | Cynthia Bishop Halstead | to do with
jas...@bissun.kodak.com | Keep the damn drunks off our roads! | my drivel.
ASSIST Coordination Site
nowhere did I say that I watch hockey only for the fighting.
I did mention that I do not like it if it is continuous
and disrupts the game, as I too enjoy a well-played, fast-paced
hockey game without constant interruption. However, I think
that eliminating ALL fighting (which I think alot of NHL
players use to get the adrenaline of their team flowing when
the game gets a bit sluggish or they are losing) is not
necessarily a good thing. Am I the only person who feels
this way? ** Kris ** GO KINGS!!! **
--
David Johnson
I agree totally. There as much fighting in baseball than in hockey and they
are all bench clearing brawls. In hockey the fights are just between two
(usually heavy weights) willing combatants and are only hurting themselves.
This can be compared to the multi million dollar industry called boxing and
nobody complains about boxing. What should be banned is the CHEAP shot
hits like a certain player named Ulf is known for.
--David Johnson
Todd Lipinski
g...@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>>
>>as the NBA Drab Team is doing now, to expose the NHL to people who
>>might otherwise not know its existence and then follow-up with some
>>promotion during the season.
>>
>
>
>Does anybody else have doubts about this? I certainly do.
Me too.
The Olympics are right in the middle of the NHL season. What team would allow
their top players to leave the team for two weeks for games plus time to
practice with the Olympic team during their regular season. Basketball is a
summer Olympic sport with the NBA playing during the winter. There is no
conflict with the regular season.
I don't think it is possible to have the NHL players in the Olympics.
-todd
Colin Layfield
>
>Gil Stein has also mentioned putting NHL'ers into the Olympics just
>as the NBA Drab Team is doing now, to expose the NHL to people who
>might otherwise not know its existence and then follow-up with some
>promotion during the season.
>
The idea of sending hockey players to the olympics is a good one but, in my
opinion, it has several difficulties.
First of all I think that teams will be reluctant to send off their stars to
play in the Olympics due to risk of injury. A good hypothetical example
could be Mario Lemieux. His health is already questionable so if the olympic
scenario did come about he would probably just use it as a chance to rest his
back (Although this is probably a special case). Other players may just be
disinterested in playing in the Olympics. In the past when the Olympic /
National team has invited NHL players, quite a few have turned them down. So
I really wonder how enthusiastic the players would be about this one.
Also, I believe the owners are not too pleased about this idea. Shutting down
the league for 3 weeks would mean, to them, shutting down their business for
3 weeks in the middle of the season.
While it would be nice to see a NHL calibre Olympic team, I don't think It's
going to happen.
Colin Layfield | "Religion and Sex are power plays,
| Manipulate the people for the money they pay,
The University of Calgary | Selling Skin, Selling God
Computer Science | The numbers look the same on their CREDIT CARDS!"
layf...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca | - Queensryche
Allan Sullivan
>In article <2A644BD...@noiro.acs.uci.edu> ass...@orion.oac.uci.edu (ASSIST Coordination Site) writes:
>> ** How can a ban on fighting be positive for hockey? Part
>> of the excitement of going to hockey games is some of the
>> tension between the players. I agree with the rules about
>> extra penalties for a third man entering the fight, charging,
>> etc. However, a one-on-one fight between two players as long
>> as it is not continual and is not too disruptive of the playing
>> of the game often gives the game some added spark. (And I have
>> never seen the players do any real harm to each other while
>> fighting! In fact, I've seen more injury done on slashing
>> and high-sticking infractions then in any fight). I would
>> like to hear what others think . . . ** Kris **
>Next time some idiot starts claiming that there is no fighting in hockey
>and that NHL hockey fans are the least fighting-loving people on Earth, I
>suggest we repost this message.
Who ever said that NHL fans are the least fighting-living people on earth?
>Next time some jerk complains "Why oh why do American TV news show more
>fights that action in hteir hockey highlights?!", I suggest he re-read the
>above posting.
What has the above posting got to do with American TV showing fighting
in the media? The American media, on average, doesn't understand hockey;
they COULD (and SHOULD) show the scoring highlights instead of the fights,
but they don't.
>The truth is that those of us who love hockey for its action are in the
>minority. the majority of NHL hockey fans are like Kris: they cannot enjoy
>hockey unless there is fighting.
Or, more likely, most people (like me) don't need to see fights in a
game to enjoy it, BUT we acknowledge the fact that fighting is required
to keep the intensity of the game high and the high sticking incidents
down.
vlad
>
>I agree totally. There as much fighting in baseball than in hockey and they
>are all bench clearing brawls. In hockey the fights are just between two
>(usually heavy weights) willing combatants and are only hurting themselves.
>This can be compared to the multi million dollar industry called boxing and
>nobody complains about boxing. What should be banned is the CHEAP shot
>hits like a certain player named Ulf is known for.
Indeed, fighting is much less objectionable to me than all those cheap
shots, like grabbing, pushing, shoving, crosssticking, htat we see every
minute of every NHL game. However, two corrections:
1. Cheap shots are illegal now (they are punishable by penalty minutes).
Which does not prevent the refs to ignore them.
2. Why point out Ulf, a man who is no worse than about 50 other guys in the
NHL? Is this another atempt at Penguin bashing? Grow up! Most NHL teams are
much better at cheap shots than the Penguins are. Of course, with the
coming of Tocchett of the famous Flyer school of cheap shots, this may
change.
Employer disagrees
vlad
>vl...@erg.sri.com (vlad) writes:
>
>>The truth is that those of us who love hockey for its action are in the
>>minority. the majority of NHL hockey fans are like Kris: they cannot enjoy
>>hockey unless there is fighting.
>
>Or, more likely, most people (like me) don't need to see fights in a
>game to enjoy it, BUT we acknowledge the fact that fighting is required
>to keep the intensity of the game high and the high sticking incidents
>down.
Bull. Fighting does not help intensity. There is no fighting in volleyball
but the intensity there is at least as high.
But oyu are right in saying that fighting provides a better outlet for
frustration than, say, highsticking. However, ask yourself where htis
frustration comes from in the first place. One of the main sources of
frustration comes when you are being illegally harassed (held,
crosschecked, grabbed, pushed, etc.) by your opponent with no reaction from
the refs. Given th efact that more than 95% of all fouls are ignored by the
NHL refs, no wonder people get frustrated. but th esolution is not in
promoting fighting but in telling the refs to sit down read the rules for
the first time in their lives and to start following those rules. That way
there will be less frustration, less fighting, less highdticking, fewer
dives, etc.
Employer disagrees
John Onusko
>In article <1992Jul15....@philabs.philips.com> j...@philabs.philips.com
>(John P. Curcio) writes:
>>
>>Does anybody else have doubts about this? I certainly do.
>Me too.
>The Olympics are right in the middle of the NHL season. What team would allow
>their top players to leave the team for two weeks for games plus time to
>practice with the Olympic team during their regular season. Basketball is a
>summer Olympic sport with the NBA playing during the winter. There is no
>conflict with the regular season.
> I don't think it is possible to have the NHL players in the Olympics.
I was thinking the same thing. Then, I read that proposal was to shut down the
NHL for a month every 4 years to allow players to participate in the Olympics.
I think it's a great idea. It will bring greater worldwide exposure to the
league and it's players.
============================================================================
John Onusko Open Systems Solutions, Inc.
Sr. Software Engineer (a subsidiary of Fujitsu Ltd.)
(510) 652-6200 x154 6121 Hollis Street
Emeryville, CA 94608-2092
sur...@OSSI.COM
/\/\/\/\/\/\
My Opinion != Corporate Opinion ( GO SHARKS! )
\/\/\/\/\/\/
============================================================================
Staffan Axelsson
> of the excitement of going to hockey games is some of the
> tension between the players. I agree with the rules about
> extra penalties for a third man entering the fight, charging,
> etc. However, a one-on-one fight between two players as long
> as it is not continual and is not too disruptive of the playing
> of the game often gives the game some added spark. (And I have
> never seen the players do any real harm to each other while
> fighting!
From an article in 'Inside HOCKEY' Vol 5, No.7, June 18, 1992:
"Calgary's frequent fighter [Tim Hunter] missed 40 games with a broken
ankle after Buffalo's Colin Patterson fell on him during a brawl Dec. 8."
"Injuries in ice bouts this season prove fighting is an occupational
hazard, not a harmless way for players to blow off steam. There were
others in the hockey world who suffered similar fates to Hunter because
of punch-ups."
"* Kerry Toporowski, Indianapolis (IHL), 55 games. Suffered ligament dam-
age in his left elbow in a Dec. 15 fight with Steve Fletcher of Fort
Wayne. Fletcher pulled Toporowski's arm and twisted it.
* Jim Kyte, Calgary, 31 games. Broke his right ankle in a fight with
Chicago's Mike Peluso Jan. 27.
* Joe Reekie, Islanders, 25 games. Fractured hid left knuckle while
punching Brad May of Buffalo Jan.3."
There was 12 more cases listed but I didn't feel like typing them all.
Hopefully, you'll get the point anyway.
> In fact, I've seen more injury done on slashing
> and high-sticking infractions then in any fight). I would
> like to hear what others think . . . ** Kris **
>--
>===========================
>Kris Myers |
>kr...@fs2.assist.uci.edu |
>===========================
Staffan
--
('_ _ _ Staffan Axelsson r.s.h contact for the
\_)|/\|-|-/\|\| etx...@ufsa.ericsson.se Swedish hockey league
Matt Brown
>Next time some idiot starts claiming that there is no fighting in hockey
>and that NHL hockey fans are the least fighting-loving people on Earth, I
>suggest we repost this message.
>Next time some jerk complains "Why oh why do American TV news show more
>fights that action in hteir hockey highlights?!", I suggest he re-read the
>above posting.
>The truth is that those of us who love hockey for its action are in the
>minority. the majority of NHL hockey fans are like Kris: they cannot enjoy
>hockey unless there is fighting.
in order:
1) Yep. But I've seen lots worse in the past year. This is reasonable by
comparison.
2) Yep. But at least Kris is talking about the competitive aspects, not drooling over a goon mugging a playmaker. As for the media, they show just about
every basketball, football, or hockey fight also. Hockey just currently
has the tree with the most fruit.
3) Nope. I think you're taking this one too far. I don't know for sure, but
my guess is that while Kris would miss frequent fights, he would still
enjoy the games. I think most of us love the game, not the fights. I
think most of us *like* a fight that has something relevant to do with the
game (protecting a star from a goon, a warning not to run the goalie, etc.)
Maybe more than you Vlad, I admit, but we are still wild west NA's at
heart, with no shame :-).
I think most of us dislike muggings and the playacting gratuitous crap that
often passes for machismo (four fights in a row, with 1 face off in between
to remind us that this isn't WWF or Roller Derby). That is the shit that
a fighting disqualification rule would get rid off.
People (like Kris) seem to forget that a disqual. rule will not eliminate
fighting; it will eliminate it's dominance of the sport in NA, the (correct)
impression that fighting is condoned, and the resulting media idiocy.
Such a rule will preserve the use of a fight as a tension-release altern-
ative to a stick in the eye, and the judicious use of a fight to wake up
or inspire a team that is going through the motions, or getting blasted.
In fact, it will probably become more esteemed, because it will reflect
a bigger strategic sacrifice (losing a player for the remainder of the
game, most likely without the stupid, me-too, followup fights we see now),
or a heroic, self-sacrificing defense of a team mate.
What we should get is fewer fights and better skating hockey. We should
also see better physical hockey too, because a good retaliation check will
be the best alternative response, given that stickwork penalties are likely
to be more severe too (or they should be). The fights we'll see will be
more meaningful. While teams may keep a DF (designated fighter) so that
they won't lose a good player to a "planned" fight, he will only DF once,
not several times. So fans of European style hockey will see more of
what they want, and fans of NA hockey will still see a more physical game
with fights applied more intelligently.
Oops! There's that "i" word again, mistakenly applied to the NHL. Unless
Stein does something drastic (smart drugs for all league officials?)
the NHL will find a way to fuck up a great chance to make progress, then
blame it on the players. In the XUSSR, wasn't it common to blame the
predictable results of an idiotic bureaucratic decision on "saboteurs"?
Is the NHL the second-to-last surviving communist oligarchy?
enquiring minds, etc.
Matt
fan of Dynamo Boston
TAB...@psuvm.psu.edu
- FIGHTING IN HOCKEY A SOMETIMES NECESSARY EVIL? - I agree to a point.
Personally, I really don't like to see players rapidly pummeling eachothers
faces eagerly searching to contact flesh - but sometimes getting only the
helmet (ala Jay Caufield). However, I think we all have a side of us that
wants to get even when one of our players is taken advantage of. PLEASE
DON'T GET ME WRONG , I am not advocating vengance, but truthfully don't we
all protest when our player gets tripped or jabbed and the other guy gets
away with it? (especially when the other team scores)
There is one type of fighting that shouldn't be tolerated in any form and that
is the instigation type. To me, that just reflects very badly on the honor of
the coach and the player (ala Claude Lemieux).
end of speech. :>
terri b.
Terry Whalen
Here is my prediction:
This thread will continue for forty days and forty nights with Vlad
making 34.62% of the postings.
ucsd!btree!terry
Terry Whalen
Amen. I also look forward to this.
ucsd!btree!terry
Nelson Lu
>Here is my prediction:
>
>This thread will continue for forty days and forty nights with Vlad
>making 34.62% of the postings.
Here is my prediction:
If fighting is outlawed in the NHL, the league will lose a significant
portion of fans, only to gain more new ones.
===============================================================================
GO LOS ANGELES KINGS! Go for Next Year! :-(
GO SAN JOSE SHARKS! Ray Whitney for Calder! Jeff Hackett for Vezina!
Pat Falloon for Hart! :-) Neil Wilkinson for Norris! ('92-'93)
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (clau...@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
Steven Winikoff
(ASSIST Coordination Site) writes:
I don't think so... but I certainly hope you are.
Think about it. If you tried to do on the street what some players
do on the ice, you'd be jailed for assault and battery.
I don't think fighting (or cheap shots, or stickwork, or anything of
the kind) contributes *anything* to the game. I'd dearly love to
take the restraints off the referees, and instruct them to call
*everthing* they see, regardless of what the score is or what period
it is...
Unfortunately, I seem to be in a minority on this issue.
- Steven
P.S.
I'll be on vacation for a week starting on Monday, so I
probably won't see any posted followups.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Winikoff s...@alcor.concordia.ca
Software Analyst
Dept. of Computing Services
Concordia University voice: (514) 848-7619
Montreal, Quebec, Canada (10:00-18:00 EST)
John P. Curcio
>In <2A6593...@noiro.acs.uci.edu> ass...@orion.oac.uci.edu
>(ASSIST Coordination Site) writes:
>
>> However, I think
>> that eliminating ALL fighting (which I think alot of NHL
>> players use to get the adrenaline of their team flowing when
>> the game gets a bit sluggish or they are losing) is not
>> necessarily a good thing. Am I the only person who feels
>> this way?
>
>
>I don't think so... but I certainly hope you are.
>
>Think about it. If you tried to do on the street what some players
>do on the ice, you'd be jailed for assault and battery.
O.K., if this is the case, then I guess boxing should be out-and-out
banned tomorrow. I asked someone who didn't like hockey why he didn't
watch it, and he said there was too much fighting. I then asked if he
liked boxing, and he was quick to say "yes!!!" (what a suprise!).
Since that whole "sport" is predicated on beating your opponent to a
pulp, I move that it be banned in the name of political correctness.
I don't want to start flame wars over how this is different, etc.,
since I know it is. All I am saying is that the "illegal on the
street" defense is weak. Think about it-- you never see Mario Andretti
getting a speeding ticket during a race, even though he is going about
3x the speed limit....
Colin Layfield
>In article <1992Jul17.2...@btree.uucp> te...@btree.uucp (Terry Whalen) writes:
>
>>Here is my prediction:
>>
>>This thread will continue for forty days and forty nights with Vlad
>>making 34.62% of the postings.
>
>Here is my prediction:
>
>If fighting is outlawed in the NHL, the league will lose a significant
>portion of fans, only to gain more new ones.
>
If fighting is outlawed in the NHL, just think of all the players who are
out of a job! (Not to mention 50% of Tampa Bay's Expansion Draft Picks!)
George Ferguson
In article <1992Jul19....@cpsc.ucalgary.ca> layf...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Colin Layfield) writes:
>Colin Layfield | "Religion and Sex are power plays,
> | Manipulate the people for the money they pay,
>The University of Calgary | Selling Skin, Selling God
>Computer Science | The numbers look the same on their CREDIT CARDS!"
>layf...@cpsc.ucalgary.ca | - Queensryche
Hey, if Religion and Sex are on the powerplay, then who's killing
penalties? And what's this about selling Skin, a Dino trade rumor?
And that other selling line is obviously another Lindros comment.
George
ps. "God" and "CARDS" don't rhyme.
--
George Ferguson ARPA: ferg...@cs.rochester.edu
Dept. of Computer Science UUCP: rutgers!rochester!ferguson
University of Rochester VOX: (716) 275-2527
Rochester NY 14627-0226 FAX: (716) 461-2018
Samuel Lee
In article <2A644BD...@noiro.acs.uci.edu> ass...@orion.oac.uci.edu (ASSIST Coordination Site) writes:
>In article <1992Jul15.1...@sei.cmu.edu> s...@sei.cmu.edu (Susan Dart) writes:
>>
>>It looks like Gil Stein will change hockey in a very positive way.
>>Last night I heard that he will outlaw fighting in the NHL. He's also
>>going to get national TV contracts (not just the sportschannel
>>nonsense).
>>
> of the excitement of going to hockey games is some of the
> tension between the players. I agree with the rules about
> extra penalties for a third man entering the fight, charging,
> etc. However, a one-on-one fight between two players as long
> as it is not continual and is not too disruptive of the playing
> of the game often gives the game some added spark. (And I have
> never seen the players do any real harm to each other while
> and high-sticking infractions then in any fight). I would
> like to hear what others think . . . ** Kris **
Well, it depends on your point of view. Hockey is the only professional sport
in which fighting is allowed insofar as you do not get ejected automatically
for throwing a punch. Naysayers will say that this is a unique aspect of
hockey and is the basis of its appeal, like you feel. Whether this feature
is a positive or negative as far as impact on its popularity goes is debatable.
I think that you have a good point in that the stick is a more dangerous weapon
than players' fists and is perhaps more of a problem in terms of serious injury.
However, Stein's responsibility is in promoting the game and making the league
a success from a financial viewpoint. Indisputably, the only way to do this is
to land a major network deal, and with it the big bucks. Do you really think
that fighting is the only reason that hockey doesn't have a major network deal?
I don't. It's all in the image. Hockey needs to broaden its mass appeal in
order to be more marketable and thus more profitable. This may take the form of
some radical changes, but the survival of the league depends on it. I agree
that fighting shouldn't be eliminated, but the success of the league is
important as well. It may have to go for the sake of the NHL. What we need
are constructive ideas like your one about stick infractions to clean up the
game. RIGHT ON! We should preserve hockey as a Canadian institution.
-- Zeke.
ASSIST Coordination Site
** I must say that I may have to eat my words because you
have made some very good points. I appreciate an
intelligent rebuttal (unlike "Employer May Disagree"!).
Keep up the good work Zeke -- you might just make me
change my mind! ** Kris **
--
Samuel Lee
>
>The Olympics are right in the middle of the NHL season.
The solution is simple: move hockey to the Summer Games.
-- Zeke.
Gerald Olchowy
A better solution would be to let the Olympics be an age-group
tournament open to say players under 22...and organize a World
Cup like tournament for professionals.
Gerald
vlad
>In article <smw.711412142@alcor> s...@alcor.concordia.ca ( Steven Winikoff ) writes:
>>Think about it. If you tried to do on the street what some players
>>do on the ice, you'd be jailed for assault and battery.
>O.K., if this is the case, then I guess boxing should be out-and-out
>banned tomorrow.
>I move that it be banned in the name of political correctness.
You miss the point. The point is that violence is illegal on the streets
but legal in a war. Just read the law books and you will see that i am right.
Similarly, the rulebook of boxing says that fighting and headbashing were
both legal and necessary. Thus, a person who becomes a boxer knows exactly
what he is getting into.
On the other hand, the rulebook of hockey and of the NHL clearly states
that violence is illegal. That's the law. And all we are asking is that the
law be upheld. If you think that fighting is a part of hockey, then change
the rules and make fighting legal.
>
>I don't want to start flame wars over how this is different, etc.,
>since I know it is. All I am saying is that the "illegal on the
>street" defense is weak. Think about it-- you never see Mario Andretti
>getting a speeding ticket during a race, even though he is going about
>3x the speed limit....
Again, 200 mph is LEGAL on a race track and illegal on a street.
Are we a law-based nation or not?
Employer disagrees
Brian S Enyart
[boxing analogy deleted]
>On the other hand, the rulebook of hockey and of the NHL clearly states
>that violence is illegal. That's the law. And all we are asking is that the
>law be upheld. If you think that fighting is a part of hockey, then change
>the rules and make fighting legal.
And the law says the guilty parties spends their 5 minutes in the penalty box.
Glad to see you agree that fighting shouldn't go unpenalized.
>Again, 200 mph is LEGAL on a race track and illegal on a street.
Now, the penalty for going 200 mph on the street is a little more severe....
:-)
Brian Enyart
eny...@ecn.purdue.edu
Allan Sullivan
>>>Think about it. If you tried to do on the street what some players
>>>do on the ice, you'd be jailed for assault and battery.
>>O.K., if this is the case, then I guess boxing should be out-and-out
>>banned tomorrow.
>You miss the point. The point is that violence is illegal on the streets
>but legal in a war. Just read the law books and you will see that i am right.
>Similarly, the rulebook of boxing says that fighting and headbashing were
>both legal and necessary. Thus, a person who becomes a boxer knows exactly
>what he is getting into.
>On the other hand, the rulebook of hockey and of the NHL clearly states
>that violence is illegal. That's the law. And all we are asking is that the
>law be upheld. If you think that fighting is a part of hockey, then change
>the rules and make fighting legal.
Fighting in hokcye IS illegal, and it IS penalized. That's why people
go to the PENALTY box when they fight. I've never seen a real fight
where SOME penalty wasn't handed out.
And if the player is the instigator, or the 3rd man in, he gets and
extra 2 or 5 minutes in the box, and the other team gets a power play.
Seems fair to me...
>Are we a law-based nation or not?
Well, I don't know about the Americans, but we are in Canada. And we
usually try to make the harshness of the punishment fit the crime.
(ie. we don't jail someone for 20 years for stealing a loaf of bread.)
smart enough
John P. Curcio
>>In article <smw.711412142@alcor> s...@alcor.concordia.ca ( Steven Winikoff ) writes:
>
>>>Think about it. If you tried to do on the street what some players
>>>do on the ice, you'd be jailed for assault and battery.
>
>>O.K., if this is the case, then I guess boxing should be out-and-out
>>banned tomorrow.
>
>>I move that it be banned in the name of political correctness.
>
>You miss the point. The point is that violence is illegal on the streets
>but legal in a war. Just read the law books and you will see that i am right.
No, I don't miss the point, and I also don't understand why you brought
wars into this....
>Similarly, the rulebook of boxing says that fighting and headbashing were
>both legal and necessary. Thus, a person who becomes a boxer knows exactly
>what he is getting into.
O.K., great..... but a hockey player doesn't?!?
>On the other hand, the rulebook of hockey and of the NHL clearly states
>that violence is illegal. That's the law. And all we are asking is that the
>law be upheld. If you think that fighting is a part of hockey, then change
>the rules and make fighting legal.
The rulebook says that fighting is illegal in hockey. You do it, and
you sit in the penalty box. End of story. The laws of the sport ARE
being upheld. Again, I believe that stick violence and clutch-and-grab
crapola are worse for the game than fighting-- that's where to start
the overhaul.....
Matthew Coohill
Gerald Olchowy brings complains that (and I quote)...
"Lemieux dives and fakes and whines"
BTW, that's exactly what Eric Lindros and team Canada PRACTICED
for a full day right before the Olympics. They thought that it was
important to get the refs to notice things that they'd miss normally
AND that if someone had their stick up into your groin... you might as
well fall onto the ice and send them to the penalty box. It seemed to
work for them.
I know that this may be asking to much... but can we get off this
"whining" spree about certain players. Can someone generate a r.s.h.flame
group so that all the "star" players' fans and enemies can get together
and talk about breaking things and whimps plus throw in how Hartford sucks
because it's at this Longitude and this Latitude (just an example, no flames)
or how the Champions from ____ year were really a bunch of lucky losers?
I say we generate a +/- "thingy" regarding this recent Lindros issue.
It'll work like this... for each letter praising him he will recieve a plus.
For each, letter against him, he will recieve a minus. At the end of the
year we can tabulate his +/- rating and then physically harm the side who
lost. That should work, eh? :-)
matt
"Bite me!" - Crow T. Robot, MST3k
Gerald Olchowy
>
> Gerald Olchowy brings complains that (and I quote)...
>
> "Lemieux dives and fakes and whines"
>
> BTW, that's exactly what Eric Lindros and team Canada PRACTICED
> for a full day right before the Olympics. They thought that it was
> important to get the refs to notice things that they'd miss normally
> AND that if someone had their stick up into your groin... you might as
> well fall onto the ice and send them to the penalty box. It seemed to
> work for them.
>
They may have practiced diving and and faking, but not whining...Dave
King coached teams never whine...and for Dave King's team this was
purely a defensive manouvre, only to be utilized if their opponents
resorted to such tactics...something which obviously cannot be said
of Mario. Unfortunately, international hockey is prone to such
fakery, and one has to be prepared...and unfortunately Mario is
popularizing such tactics in the NHL.
And for the record, Canada did very little diving or faking at
the Olympics.
Gerald
Scott Sawin
>but the intensity there is at least as high.
We all know how violent those blood thursty volleyball players get on the
beach. Especially when someone spills their wine cooler.
Scott