Jarmo Myllys
Pasi Myllym{ki
In my opinion he didn't get change to show how super he is.
Am I absolutely wrong ?
Timo Laitinen
(Canadian or USA). That's why for example Petr Briza, Jaromir Sindel
and Oldrich Svoboda are in SM-LIIGA, Finland - Not in money circus in NHL.
Am I absolutely right?
Marek Repinski
And the splendid Pekka Lindmark from the World Champions country Sweden.
Why did't he get a chance?
Am I absoluted ?
--
/Marek
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson Telecom AB - System Design Division - Sweden
E-mail: Marek.R...@eos.ericsson.se
Teleph: +46 (0)8 719 1113
Fax : +46 (0)8 719 5557
Phevbfvgl xvyy gur png....
Gerald Olchowy
He had chances with Minnesota, Edmonton, and San Jose and really never
demonstrated consistency...
Gerald
Nelson Lu
>You are right!!!!! NHL coaches and managers prefer their own goalkeepers
>(Canadian or USA). That's why for example Petr Briza, Jaromir Sindel
>and Oldrich Svoboda are in SM-LIIGA, Finland - Not in money circus in NHL.
>
>Am I absolutely right?
Not in Myllys' case. The Sharks gave him a bona fide chance to become a #1
goaltender, and he failed miserably. His loss was Jeff Hackett's gain.
===============================================================================
GO LOS ANGELES KINGS! Wayne Gretzky for Ross and Hart!
GO SAN JOSE SHARKS! Ray Whitney for Calder! Jeff Hackett for Vezina!
Dean Evason for Selke! Sandis Ozolinsh for Norris!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (clau...@leland.stanford.edu)
rec.sport.hockey contact for the San Jose Sharks
Roland Dreier
I think that NHL general managers didn't have enough money to keep him in
sticks...I saw him break sticks over the top of the goal at least twice
last season.
But seriously, I think that Myllys just was not a very good NHL goalie. He
came up with some big saves, but he never seemed to adjust to the NHL
game. At times he looked horrible. He's probably best off in Europe where
he can do well.
--
Roland Dreier dre...@math.berkeley.edu
Nelson Lu
>He did get a chance all right. He played the debute season of the San Jose
>Sharks as a second goalie (Jeff Hackett being 1st), and performed very well.
>As far as I recall, he played maybe a third of all the Sharks games, and
>was within the top 3 players of a game several times. In some games he was
>fantastic, but maybe not often enough or maybe he was in the wrong team?
>I mean, if defense sucks and the other team scores 10 goals, who do you
>blame first?
That is not the problem. The problem was that Jarmo, although he would
put together a great game at times, was plain horrible the other games.
And his best games as a Shark wasn't as good as the best games of either Jeff
Hackett or Arturs Irbe.
Carrie A Ayers
Ok, now that I have that off my chest...
Well, the Indians and Bruins played a home and home exhibition series on Fri/
Sat. The Bruins won both games.
On Friday, the Bruins won 12-4, netting 8 goals in the first period (a few of
them within a short amount of time). 5 of these were power plays. Springfield
had only 4 shots on goal in the first period, netting 2 goals. Providence
scored 3 more goals in the 2nd, all power plays, while Springfield scored only
one (also pp). Eugene Pavlov (Prov) scored a hattrick, so did Tim Sweeney
(Prov). Defenseman Peter Laviolette (Prov) sored 2 goals and 3 assists.
Also scoring for Prov were Bill Huard, Girgori Panteleyev, Jim Vesey and Andrew
McKim, who also had 4 assists.
Kelly Ens had 2 goals and an assist for Spfld, Leonid Toropchenko has 2
assists. Can't remember who scored the other 2 goals...by that point, wasn't
much hope...
Mike Lenarduzzi, who was scheduled to play the whole game for the Indians was
pulled after the first period in favor of Allain Morissette. Lenaduzzi made
3 of 11 saves, Morissette made 18 of 22 saves.
The Indians who have yet to receive the remainder of their team from Hartford,
played 4 defenseman up front. (Cam Brauer, Martin Hamrlik, Scott Humeniuk,
and Karl Johnston) Cam Brauer has yet to score a goal in 2 seasons, and has
only 2 assists. So you see how the offense was hurting, but how in the world
they had no defense with 4 defenseman on the ice at a time is beyond me.
Lenarduzzi came out of the net more often than not also, allowing many easy
goals. Matt Delguidice played the entire game for Providence.
There were 116 minutes in penalties, 73 for Spfld, and 44 for Providence.
I didn't see Saturday's game, but will give you a few highlights out of the
newspaper. Bruins won 7-3.
Scoring for the Bruins were: Tim Sweeney (4 on 4 - Lenarduzzi once again out
of the crease), Eugene Pavlov (PP), Grigori Panteleyev(PP),
Sergei Zholtok, Christian Lariviere (PP), Sean Gorman and Bill Huard.
Scoring for the Indians were: Leonid Toropchenko and Dennis Chalifoux (2)
The Indians only trailed 3-2 and 4-2 after the first 2 periods, but let the
game go after Chailfoux scored his 2nd goal at 4:40 of the 3rd period.
John Blue made 43 saves for Providence, Lenarduzzi played the entire game for
Springfield.
Barry Nieckar suffered a severly lacerated right hand as a result of Ricciardi
jumping on his back in a 3rd-man-in situation. Nieckar was fighting Glen
Featherstone when Ricciardi's skate from behind badly slashed his hand.
The 2nd period was filled with penalties, 142 were called the whole game.
So all in all, the Indians were horrible when short handed as the Bruins
converted 10 of 14 power plays over the weekend. However, I wouldn't
expect this to carry over to the regular season as many of the players on
the Indians roster now, will probably not be there in a couple of weeks, and
many more players will be cut from Hartford soon (I hope). The Indians
presently have 10 defenseman, atleast 2 of them will be sent to Louisville.
A couple more comments: Indians goalie Mario Gosselin has a bad back,
Corrie D'allesio is the goalie Hartford traded Kay Whitmore for.
Here are the Rosters as of Friday night's game:
Springfield Indians Providence Bruins
NO PLAYER POS NO PLAYER POS
1 Allain Morissette G 1 Scott Bailey G
30 Mario Gosselin G 31 Matt Delguidice G
35 Mike Lenarduzzi G 39 John Blue G
3 Corey Beaulieu D 2 Christian Lariviere D
4 Cam Brauer D 3 Steve Jaques D
5 Karl Johnston D 4 Sean Gorman D
6 Juri Krivokhizha D 5 Chris Winnes RW
7 Paul Guy RW 6 Darryl Olsen D
8 Steve Yule D 9 Mark Kumpel RW
10 Paul Cyr RW 11 Andrew McKim C
11 Trevor Stienburg RW 12 Grigori Panteleyev LW
12 Kelly Ens C 14 Chris Crombie LW
14 Leonid Toropchenko C 15 Tim Sweeney LW
17 Jim Powers C 16 Jim Vesey RW
18 Denis Chalifoux C 17 Sergei Zholtok C
19 Michel Picard LW 18 Daniel Larin RW
20 Joe Flanagan C 20 Bill Huard LW
21 John Stevens D 24 Glen Featherstone D
22 Brian Chapman D 25 Jamie Huscroft D
23 Bryan Krygier C 27 Eugene Pavlov RW
26 Barry Nieckar LW 28 Peter Laviolette D
28 Scott Matusovich D 29 Jeff Ricciardi D
29 Scott Humeniuk D 32 Matt Robbins RW
34 Martin Hamrlik D 34 Clark Donatelli LW
35 Paul Ohman D
Oh...the Bruins uniforms were similar to the Boston Bruins uniforms, instead
a B, there was a P in the middle of the wheel.
Carrie
car...@wpi.wpi.edu
GO INDIANS!!!!!!!!
GO ISLANDERS!!!!!!
Jukka A Virtanen
>Why super-goalie Jarmo Myllys is nowadays here in Finland (team:KooKoo).
>In my opinion he didn't get change to show how super he is.
He did get a chance all right. He played the debute season of the San Jose
Sharks as a second goalie (Jeff Hackett being 1st), and performed very well.
As far as I recall, he played maybe a third of all the Sharks games, and
was within the top 3 players of a game several times. In some games he was
fantastic, but maybe not often enough or maybe he was in the wrong team?
I mean, if defense sucks and the other team scores 10 goals, who do you
blame first?
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Helsinki / JUKKA A VIRTANEN / // / "I used to be
University of / ba...@vipunen.hut.fi / \X/ / indecisive, but
Technology / ba...@lesti.hut.fi / Amiga 3000 / now I'm not sure."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
caldwe...@mtroyal.ab.ca
>>In my opinion he didn't get change to show how super he is.
>>
>>Am I absolutely wrong ?
>>
>>
> You are right!!!!! NHL coaches and managers prefer their own goalkeepers
> (Canadian or USA). That's why for example Petr Briza, Jaromir Sindel
> and Oldrich Svoboda are in SM-LIIGA, Finland - Not in money circus in NHL.
>
> Am I absolutely right?
None of those guys above sound familiar to me. However, Dominik Hasek, for
years the star of the Czech national team, is here in the NHL with Buffalo.
Tommy Soederstrom is here with Philadelphia.
Myllys played for Minnesota, and never performed well enough to deserve to be a
regular. San Jose took him, and he got into some games for them last year. They
traded him to Toronto, but I guess Myllys had had enough of being a #3 or #4
player. It's too bad, but he just wasn't good enough.
Alan
Staffan Axelsson
and there really hasn't been any need for European goalies, even
if they have been 'great' in our (Europeans') eyes.
Also, the goalie's task is a bit different on small rinks, sometimes acting
like a third defenseman as opposed to the European goalie who is usually a bit
more stationary. This has been an advantage for N American goalies over
European goalies since they're used to this from the minor leagues.
European defensemen and forwards have been/are attractive for NHL teams in the
sense that they are usually more skilled in passing and skating than the
typical NHL enforcer. There has not been any such advantage (quite naturally)
for the European goalie over the N American goalie.
This is just my 0.02 SKR why there hasn't been a whole lot of European goalies
in NHL and I know I am absolutely right! :-)
---
We do have one Swedish goalie in NHL right now, Philadelphia's Tommy
Soderstrom. And while speaking of him, I have some reports to make.
Tommy has undergone two heart-surgeries after that the Flyer's doctor
detected heart rhythm irregularities (don't expect me to explain the
medical stuff, I don't even know it in Swedish). Anyway, the first
12-hour surgery failed but the second one seemed to have worked out,
Tommy reported on Swedish radio yesterday. Tommy will have to
rest for 3 weeks now before he can start playing hockey again.
Staffan
BTW: Timo, shouldn't you be in Malmo coaching your team right now? :-)
--
((\\ //| Staffan Axelsson Farjestad! SM-Guld '93
\\ //|| etx...@ufsa.ericsson.se L|ven till eliten!
\\_))//-|| contact for Swedish hockey
Lauri Tarkkonen
>In article <68...@kielouta.fi> cst...@uta.fi (Timo Laitinen) writes:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>BTW: Timo, shouldn't you be in Malmo coaching your team right now? :-)
>--
> ((\\ //| Staffan Axelsson Farjestad! SM-Guld '93
> \\ //|| etx...@ufsa.ericsson.se L|ven till eliten!
>\\_))//-|| contact for Swedish hockey
There is a prowerb that says: among the blind the one eyed is a king.
If you bother to practice spelling you would find out that the coach
of Malm| is Timo Lahtinen and the author of the previous post is
Timo Laitinen, the difference is one letter h - i. The best speller
in the country is now the king, so what could you expect from the rest. :-).
- Lauri
Brian Bechtel
>In <68...@kielouta.fi> csp...@uta.fi (Pasi Myllym{ki) writes:
>>Why super-goalie Jarmo Myllys is nowadays here in Finland (team:KooKoo).
>>In my opinion he didn't get change to show how super he is.
>
>He did get a chance all right. He played the debute season of the San Jose
>Sharks as a second goalie (Jeff Hackett being 1st), and performed very well.
>As far as I recall, he played maybe a third of all the Sharks games, and
>was within the top 3 players of a game several times. In some games he was
>fantastic, but maybe not often enough or maybe he was in the wrong team?
In his top games, Jarmo was great. At that point, he clearly looked
like a number one goaltender. But during other games, he was very
poor. He let in a lot of goals on his bad nights, even when playing
for the San Jose Sharks (last in any defensive category you'd care to
choose.) On a bad night, Jarmo could take a 4-1 game (against) and make
it 7-1 in a matter of three shots against him. On a good night, he'd
keep the game at 4-1, and you knew that God Himself wouldn't have a
better chance. I think his inconsistency was what has led to his being
in Finland rather than the NHL.
And I don't think it was a matter of the team. Jeff Hackett was playing
with the same band of rookies and beaters, and his play was consistent.
When the Sharks got blown out in a game with Hackett in goal, you knew
that it wasn't all Jeff's fault. When the Sharks got blown out in a
game with Myllys in goal, you couldn't say that. That's why the Sharks
voted Hackett as most valuable player, and traded Myllys away.
--Brian Bechtel bl...@apple.com "My opinion, not Apple's"
Staffan Axelsson
>In <1992Oct6.1...@ericsson.se> etx...@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson) writes:
>
>>In article <68...@kielouta.fi> cst...@uta.fi (Timo Laitinen) writes:
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>BTW: Timo, shouldn't you be in Malmo coaching your team right now? :-)
>>--
>> ((\\ //| Staffan Axelsson Farjestad! SM-Guld '93
>> \\ //|| etx...@ufsa.ericsson.se L|ven till eliten!
>>\\_))//-|| contact for Swedish hockey
>
>There is a prowerb that says: among the blind the one eyed is a king.
>If you bother to practice spelling you would find out that the coach
>of Malm| is Timo Lahtinen and the author of the previous post is
>Timo Laitinen, the difference is one letter h - i.
>
Geez, so why do you think I put the smiley after that sentence??
:-) = joke
i.e. I knew the h - i difference.
I thought the names resembled each other enough to make a joke out of it -
you probably didn't.
>- Lauri
Staffan,
the one eyed .-)
caldwe...@mtroyal.ab.ca
> Springfield Indians Providence Bruins
> 7 Paul Guy RW 6 Darryl Olsen D
> 14 Leonid Toropchenko C 15 Tim Sweeney LW
How about that...Tim Sweeney, the ex-Flame who left the organization because
he was sick of the minor leagues! He thought he deserved to play in the NHL,
and now he's back in the minors. Take that, Tim. Looks good on you!
Same goes for Darryl Olsen, another ex-Flame. They told him he wasn't good
enough...now he's got a second opinion.
Alan
Matt Brown
>North America has produced a lot of top quality goalies themselves
>and there really hasn't been any need for European goalies, even
>if they have been 'great' in our (Europeans') eyes.
There have been a good number of European goaltenders that have started
for NHL/WHA teams, starting (I believe) with the WHA Whalers back in the
70's (Abramsson? I'll have to look it up at home). Almost every team has
had a European goalie in their line-up for a full season, at least, over
the years. If you look at on ice statistics, none have reached the level
of performance of the best North American goalie in a given year. Only
one that I can remember has reached something close to superstar status,
Pelle Lindberg, and his career was cut short by his death in a car accident.
Two points about this, however.
1) It is difficult to tell if they have been given equal chances. I have
seen no visible discrimination or favoritism, and haven't heard any
reported, but that is no proof. However, it seems like many of the
European goalies have given up early, rather than sticking it out the
way North Americans do. You don't see European goalies playing years
in the minors before sticking with an NHL club. This may change, now
that there are more XSoviet goalkeepers available, and they have less
to return home to (both Irbe and Trefilov are in the minors this year,
for example). Other Europeans can return home and get comparatively
easy work. The stress of an 84 game season is harder on a goalie than
a skater, in my opinion, and playing half that in a familiar setting
must be much less stressful.
2) Only 1 to 4 goalies in the league reach this level per year, so it isn't
that surprising that most have been North American, by numbers alone.
>Also, the goalie's task is a bit different on small rinks, sometimes acting
>like a third defenseman as opposed to the European goalie who is usually a
>bit more stationary. This has been an advantage for N American goalies over
>European goalies since they're used to this from the minor leagues.
This is a fascinating point. I had never noticed this before Staffan pointed
it out, but looking back over the international games I have seen, and the
european goalies in the NHL, I recollect that in the international games,
goalies are less likely to leave the goal area to stop a puck behind the
net, and even less likely to go to the corner to play the puck. Now, with
a wider rink, this makes perfect sense. But with the larger area behind the
goal, I would have guessed that having the goalie stop the puck behind
the net would become more important. More difficult, but more important.
I would have also thought that if the goalies didn't do this regularly, that
dumping the puck in would be more effective. But this isn't usually thought
of as a characteristic of the European game. Curious. Any insight from our
European correspondents?
Or is this just a selective memory/halucination on my part, triggered
by Staffan's comment?
>European defensemen and forwards have been/are attractive for NHL teams in
>the sense that they are usually more skilled in passing and skating than the
>typical NHL enforcer. There has not been any such advantage (quite naturally)
>for the European goalie over the N American goalie.
Is the (or was the) NHL style game harder to adjust to for goalies used to
European hockey? If so, is it the way offense is generated, or is it the
defensive system? How big a factor is language? Goalies tend to give more
verbal instruction or feedback to teammates during play. Is the language
barrier bigger here than for a French Canadian goalie? Any thoughts?
If I've got some time, I'll hit the books and post some Euro-goalie stats
from yesteryear.
Matt
Chuq Von Rospach
>1) It is difficult to tell if they have been given equal chances.
Without generalizing, Jarmo was given every chance to win the position with
the Sharks and just couldn't do it. He played himself off the team. Had
moments of brilliances, and instances where he turned into a head case.
Personally, I was rooting for him. Lots of potential, but not better than
either Hackett or Irbe.
> both Irbe and Trefilov are in the minors this year,
> for example).
Irbe's in the minors only until the Sharks figure out what to do with
Hayward. Better that he plays every day than charts in the press box.
I wouldn't be surprised if Irbe was up here by Christmas (probably before)
and does 20-30 games.
The Sharks have to let Hayward either play himself onto the team (or into a
situation where he can be traded) or off (where he can be waived or
retired). So far, he's doing a pretty good job of convincing me the Sharks
should eat his contract and bring up Irbe.
--
Chuq "IMHO" Von Rospach, ESD Support & Training (DAL/AUX) =+= Member, SFWA
ch...@apple.com | GEnie: MAC.BIGOT | ALink:CHUQ =+= Editor, OtherRealms
I wanna drive the zamboni! I wanna drive the zamboni, yes I do.
David Stein
on the bench?
- David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
Valerie S. Hammerl
>
> This reminds me--is Hasek playing for Buffalo now or is he again
> on the bench?
Hasek played Buffalo's first game vs. Quebec, something like a 6-5
loss. His play was erratic at times. Daren Puppa started the next
two, a 5-2 victory over Hartford and an 8-2 thumping of Montreal.
Goaltender Tom Draper has been getting the view from the pressbox and
Clint Malarchuk was sent to San Diego of the IHL yesterday. So, to
answer your question, yes he is playing for Buffalo now. When he'll
start again is another matter, what with wandering out to the blue
line to play the puck when the action was right behind the puck. In
other words, defenseman Randy Moller wound up playing thirty seconds
of impromptu goal and I'll assure you Sabres' coach John Muckler had
a fit about that. He also went down a LOT on shots.
Right now, because he's been the only goaltender Buffalo has that's
hungry enough for the spot, Daren Puppa is the number one goaltender,
quite a change from when he was almost traded last month. Heck, he
even went out and bought black pads to go with his LA uniform. If
Hasek were hungry enough for the spot, it would have been his on a
silver platter, instead of Puppa's. None of the goaltenders sparkled
for most of camp, the opportunity couldn't have been any better for
Hasek. He got the first start of the season. His play didn't merit
game two. On the bright side for Hasek, he has been on the bench and
not in the pressbox.
--
Valerie Hammerl Underemployed technical writer seeks
ham...@acsu.buffalo.edu job in North America. Willing to
v085...@ubvms.bitnet relocate. Can begin any time.
SUNY at Buffalo ASCIT Consultant for yet another semester (sigh).
Staffan Axelsson
>(Staffan Axelsson) writes:
>
>There have been a good number of European goaltenders that have started
>for NHL/WHA teams, starting (I believe) with the WHA Whalers back in the
>70's (Abramsson? I'll have to look it up at home). Almost every team has
Christer Abrahamsson. He played for the WHA Whalers from 1974 to 1977.
Christer is now the coach for Rogle in the Swedish elite league.
His twin brother, Tommy, also played there (defenseman) from '74 to '77.
> easy work. The stress of an 84 game season is harder on a goalie than
> a skater, in my opinion, and playing half that in a familiar setting
> must be much less stressful.
Sure, but for much less money (exception: the Swiss league). I'm positive
that many Swedish goalies' dream is to play in NHL and they would therefor
also play in the minor leagues if they had to (I've heard that Pelle Lindbergh
played three years in the minors before he was a starter for the Flyers).
However, NHL scouts seem mainly to have been looking for (European) defensemen
/forwards and haven't noticed goalies unless they've done something really
spectacular (e.g. Soderstrom at CC '91).
>>Also, the goalie's task is a bit different on small rinks, sometimes acting
>>like a third defenseman as opposed to the European goalie who is usually a
>>bit more stationary. This has been an advantage for N American goalies over
>>European goalies since they're used to this from the minor leagues.
>
>This is a fascinating point. I had never noticed this before Staffan pointed
>it out, but looking back over the international games I have seen, and the
>european goalies in the NHL, I recollect that in the international games,
>goalies are less likely to leave the goal area to stop a puck behind the
>net, and even less likely to go to the corner to play the puck. Now, with
>a wider rink, this makes perfect sense.
Also consider that the international icing rule is used here (in Sweden at
least). This means that the goalie won't have to play the puck behind the
goal as often.
You also won't see as much dump-and-chase since the neutral zone is larger
giving the players more space and reason to pass/deke their way towards
the goal.
>Is the (or was the) NHL style game harder to adjust to for goalies used to
>European hockey?
I seem to recall an interview with Tommy Soderstrom prior to his departure to
Philadelphia where he said that he didn't think the adjustment to NHL
hockey would be too hard.
I tend to think that European defensemen/forwards can have a harder time
adjusting to NHL hockey than European goalies.
>If so, is it the way offense is generated, or is it the
>defensive system? How big a factor is language? Goalies tend to give more
>verbal instruction or feedback to teammates during play. Is the language
>barrier bigger here than for a French Canadian goalie? Any thoughts?
The language is not too big of a factor for players from countries such as
Sweden, Finland etc since english is taught in the schools.
>
>Matt
Staffan
--
((\\ //| Staffan Axelsson
\\ //|| etx...@ufsa.ericsson.se
Matt Brown
>ma...@ctron.com (Matt Brown) writes:
>>1) It is difficult to tell if they have been given equal chances.
>Without generalizing, Jarmo was given every chance to win the position with
>the Sharks and just couldn't do it. He played himself off the team. Had
>moments of brilliances, and instances where he turned into a head case.
>Personally, I was rooting for him. Lots of potential, but not better than
>either Hackett or Irbe.
I can't for sure remember the context from my own article (how' that for a
startling admission on the net!) but I thought I meant it generally. I can't
disagree with your comments about Jarmo, given the boxescores I read last
year, and the several games I saw. Let me rephrase to say that in his case,
a first year expansion team doesn't give a rookie goalie from anywhere an
even break. It is bad enough to be an Andre (Red Light) Raciot, who has to
live up to Pat Roy's reputation the few chances he gets to play. No wonder
the guy hasn't proved much. But to be a Euro-rookie in goal for a 1st year
expansion club, which will be by nature as inconistent as possible, with
the high peaks being none too lofty, must have been torture. Hayward,
Hackett and such at least have some NHL experience and some basis for self
confidence. Irbe didn't get as much time as Jarmo, and didn't (that I can
recall) have the collapses Myllys did, so it is hard to compare.
To sum up, Jarmo didn't cut it last year, and going to Tampa would have been
like Year In Hell 2: Lightning Strikes Twice. I hope he has a good year in
Finland, gets his confidence or his head on straight, and gets another chance
with a non-expansion team.
Note also I'm not blaming or flaming San Jose. They are what they are, and
hopefully a few years down the line, expansion will be a fading memory and
they'll contend solidly. I hope none of the expansion teams remain lame,
for the game's sake.
I also hope to see Irbe up in the majors. One of my favorite XCIS players.
I agree that the time in the minors is better than time on the pine.
Matt
Wonder if he'll learn English with a midwestern accent?
Lauri Tarkkonen
>(Staffan Axelsson) writes:
>>North America has produced a lot of top quality goalies themselves
>>and there really hasn't been any need for European goalies, even
>>if they have been 'great' in our (Europeans') eyes.
>There have been a good number of European goaltenders that have started
>for NHL/WHA teams, starting (I believe) with the WHA Whalers back in the
>70's (Abramsson? I'll have to look it up at home). Almost every team has
>had a European goalie in their line-up for a full season, at least, over
>the years. If you look at on ice statistics, none have reached the level
>of performance of the best North American goalie in a given year. Only
>one that I can remember has reached something close to superstar status,
>Pelle Lindberg, and his career was cut short by his death in a car accident.
I fully agree that the top Canadian goalkeepeers are in most cases better
than the European. The development of a top goalie is sometimes slow and
there are really many Canadians (and some Americans) who got the proper
chance after a lenghty minor league career. The Europeans that come to
the NHL-camps are mostly young fellows and some of them are not ready
for the NHL. Some European top goalies reach their peak after they have
familywise and professionally (I mean outside of hockey) settled down
and they are not keen to come to the NHL. To day it might be different,
because there are more players in the European leagues that play full time
hockey and might be still interested in the NHL after approaching 30.
If I have to take an example, I could imagine that Jukka Tammi, from Ilves
in Tampere, Finland would be suitable for an NHL tryout. Maybe Pekka
Lindmark from Malm| IF, Malm|, Sweden would be ready for NHL. I believe
we will never find out.
>Two points about this, however.
>1) It is difficult to tell if they have been given equal chances. I have
> seen no visible discrimination or favoritism, and haven't heard any
> reported, but that is no proof.
I believe that the coach wants to win a hockey game and he puts the
best men on the ice. The best men in his opinion. If some of us have
a different opinion we might call it favoritism. :-).
> However, it seems like many of the
> European goalies have given up early, rather than sticking it out the
> way North Americans do. You don't see European goalies playing years
> in the minors before sticking with an NHL club. This may change, now
> that there are more XSoviet goalkeepers available, and they have less
> to return home to (both Irbe and Trefilov are in the minors this year,
> for example). Other Europeans can return home and get comparatively
> easy work. The stress of an 84 game season is harder on a goalie than
> a skater, in my opinion, and playing half that in a familiar setting
> must be much less stressful.
The problem is that Soviet Union never had any real top goalie after
Vjateslav Tretjak. Their hockey did not have the tradition to develope
top goalies. Tretjak was an individual product of Anatoli Tarasov, he
was 'privately' trained, physically and mentally and there is nobody
to continue that work.
>2) Only 1 to 4 goalies in the league reach this level per year, so it isn't
> that surprising that most have been North American, by numbers alone.
>>Also, the goalie's task is a bit different on small rinks, sometimes acting
>>like a third defenseman as opposed to the European goalie who is usually a
>>bit more stationary. This has been an advantage for N American goalies over
>>European goalies since they're used to this from the minor leagues.
The North American goalie is more active and in a way plays as a third
defenseman. It demands more skills, stickhandling and skating and some
tactical judgment.
>This is a fascinating point. I had never noticed this before Staffan pointed
>it out, but looking back over the international games I have seen, and the
>european goalies in the NHL, I recollect that in the international games,
>goalies are less likely to leave the goal area to stop a puck behind the
>net, and even less likely to go to the corner to play the puck. Now, with
>a wider rink, this makes perfect sense. But with the larger area behind the
>goal, I would have guessed that having the goalie stop the puck behind
>the net would become more important. More difficult, but more important.
>I would have also thought that if the goalies didn't do this regularly, that
>dumping the puck in would be more effective. But this isn't usually thought
>of as a characteristic of the European game. Curious. Any insight from our
>European correspondents?
Reason #1 for the development of the passive goalies:
Earlier the job of the goalie in juniors was given to the worst skater
and stickhandler. (there are exceptions) and he was not expected to
carry out any heroics outside the crease.
Reason #2 for the development of the passive goalies:
In bigger rink the advantage of the skater versus the goalie is bigger,
the risk of loosing the puck while escapading behind the net or in the
corners are bigger. While there is more space behind the net, it makes
it more difficult to stop the puck and the risk of missing it is again
bigger.
When you combine these, the big rink that favors the skaters and the
goalie inferior in skating and stickhandling, you see that it is safer
to stand in front of the net.
I do not say that the top goalies are inferior in skating or stickhandling
to anybody, but the style comes from the expectations sat upon the majority.
>Or is this just a selective memory/halucination on my part, triggered
>by Staffan's comment?
>>European defensemen and forwards have been/are attractive for NHL teams in
>>the sense that they are usually more skilled in passing and skating than the
>>typical NHL enforcer. There has not been any such advantage (quite naturally)
>>for the European goalie over the N American goalie.
The big rink favors passing and skating game. The best Europeans are
good in that, but because of the passive play of the goalies, they are
inferior in this department. To develop the tactical eye and the courage
to play more actively will also take some time and practice.
Because the risk to fumble for the European goalies is bigger they
play more conservatively, also because that is what is expected they
do not get the blame for that.
>Is the (or was the) NHL style game harder to adjust to for goalies used to
>European hockey? If so, is it the way offense is generated, or is it the
>defensive system? How big a factor is language? Goalies tend to give more
>verbal instruction or feedback to teammates during play. Is the language
>barrier bigger here than for a French Canadian goalie? Any thoughts?
It is more difficult to adjust to the acitve play than the passive play.
>If I've got some time, I'll hit the books and post some Euro-goalie stats
>from yesteryear.
>Matt
- Lauri Tarkkonen
John Huber
In article <Bw2A3...@acsu.buffalo.edu>, ham...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Valerie S. Hammerl) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct13....@math.ucla.edu> dst...@amalthea.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:
|> >
|> > This reminds me--is Hasek playing for Buffalo now or is he again
|> > on the bench?
|>
|>
|> not in the pressbox.
|>
|>
Well he may be in the bench area, but based on the Pens v Sabres game the
other night, he doesn't actually SIT on the bench.
My seat is right beside the glass and Hasek "sat" on the end of the bench
beside me. However, he spent the majority of the evening standing up and
leaning over the boards. Thus he blocked everyone near me from seeing play at
the other end of the ice (creating many screaming fans).
On the positive side, I now have some good close-up photos of Hasek :-) and he
was entertaining to "talk" to during the game.
-Jay
John W. Huber, Jr. - aka Jay | Penguins - 1991,1992 Stanley Cup Champions
Software Engineering Institute | Pirates - 1990,1991,1992 NL East Champions
SEI 3217 (412) 268-3550 | MasterCraft - The ONLY boat for skiing