Smythe Speculation (Was: POOR CANUCKS!!)
bryan.k.strouse
> In article <1989Dec15.0...@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Herman Yang writes:
> >
> >I would like to begin a discussion which Smythe Division team would
> >end up in the last spot?!Would anyone want to have some words on it?
>
> I'm willing to stick my neck out that either LA or Vancouver will be
> the odd man out come springtime. What, LA? No, I'm not mad. LA is
> due for a major injury to some player in the next while, 'cos they've
> been playing with a fairly steady roster. Having Gretzky out will
> cost them at least 10 games; Edmonton became a .500 club when Wayner
> was out with a knee pain a few years ago. Larry Robinson would be
> another prime candidate, given age, or Barry Beck given his history.
Well, it won't be the Kings at the bottom. It will be either the Canucks,
who have Soviets that aren't turning out like they all expected, or the
much improved Jets, who are doing it with goaltending and mirrors. The
Carson trade improved the Oilers to contention status and the Flames are
suffering from retirement/Soviet preseason burnout.
The Kings already have gone through the injury wheel with McSorley and
Krushelnyski and Beck. Hrudey and Gosselin are an adequate tandem, and
the Three hot scorers should keep bringin the Kings offense. Watch for a
trade soon for a defenseman.
> What has LA got in goal besides Kelley Hrudey? Pat Healey is turning
> out to be a star goalie with the dismal Islanders; Mark Fitzpatrick is
> an able backup -- looks like Islanders came out well in this deal.
Fitz shows great promise on an otherwise lousy team. Glenn Healy is the
backup for him. Too early to tell if the Isles made a good trade. They are
only 11-20-4 and Hrudey is close to the top in wins.
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-SPIKE-
peter.r.clark..jr
> In article <25...@cunixc.cc.columbia.edu>, g...@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
> > In article <1989Dec15.0...@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Herman Yang writes:
> > >
> for a trade soon for a defenseman.
>
> > What has LA got in goal besides Kelley Hrudey? Pat Healey is turning
> > out to be a star goalie with the dismal Islanders; Mark Fitzpatrick is
> > an able backup -- looks like Islanders came out well in this deal.
>
> Fitz shows great promise on an otherwise lousy team. Glenn Healy is the
> backup for him. Too early to tell if the Isles made a good trade. They are
> only 11-20-4 and Hrudey is close to the top in wins.
>
offense wins games and defense wins championships. The real question here
is why the high GAA? Is it a bad goalie? Bad defense? The offense oriented
style of play? My guess is that it's probably a combination of the last two.
The Kings had better trade for defense, and then we can decide on Hrudey.
I agree that it's not fair to judge the trade, but for different reasons.
You can't judge a goalie solely by his record.
Any stats on save percentage, Spike? That's probably the best stat to look
at.
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> -SPIKE-
Pete Clark Jr.
att!hos1cad!seth
att!cbnewsh!seth
PS Spike, where's the .sig?
bryan.k.strouse
> But Hrudey and the Kings are at the bottom in GAA. I've said it before,
> offense wins games and defense wins championships. The real question here
> is why the high GAA? Is it a bad goalie? Bad defense? The offense oriented
> style of play? My guess is that it's probably a combination of the last two.
> The Kings had better trade for defense, and then we can decide on Hrudey.
> I agree that it's not fair to judge the trade, but for different reasons.
> You can't judge a goalie solely by his record.
SOrry....NJ, PIT, TOR, and QUE are all lower....
Nor can you by the defense in front of him too. DOes that mean that Pittsburgh
or New Jersey have lousy defenses or lousy goaltenders?? They are both lower
the LA in goals against average and save percentage. LA and Pitts. play
both an offensive style of play. You just missed the original question. No
way LA finishes at the bottom of the division as Gary had originally said.
Robinson and Duchesne and Benning and Laidlaw and Watters all high pluses on
plus and minus, does that mean its a bad defense?? LA has the best powerplay
and the 18th best penalty killing, thats why they are not higher then they
are. Is this the goaltenders fault or the defenses??
Tell that to the Oilers. And how could they win all those cups with that great
defense behind them........
> Any stats on save percentage, Spike? That's probably the best stat to look
> at.
Sure.......
MON .902
BUF .902
PHI .896
NYR .896
BOS .892
STL .887
NYI .886
EDM .881
WAS .877
WIN .875
LA .874
NJ .874
HFD .873
CHI .872
CGY .855
DET .866
TOR .864
VAN .860
QUE .855
Just some.....
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-SPIKE-
peter.r.clark..jr
> In article <68...@cbnewsh.ATT.COM>, se...@cbnewsh.ATT.COM (peter.r.clark..jr) writes:
> > But Hrudey and the Kings are at the bottom in GAA. I've said it before,
> > offense wins games and defense wins championships. The real question here
> > is why the high GAA? Is it a bad goalie? Bad defense? The offense oriented
> > style of play? My guess is that it's probably a combination of the last two.
> > The Kings had better trade for defense, and then we can decide on Hrudey.
> > I agree that it's not fair to judge the trade, but for different reasons.
> > You can't judge a goalie solely by his record.
>
> SOrry....NJ, PIT, TOR, and QUE are all lower....
Yes, I meant to say "near" the bottom, not "at".
>
> Nor can you by the defense in front of him too. DOes that mean that Pittsburgh
> or New Jersey have lousy defenses or lousy goaltenders?? They are both lower
> the LA in goals against average and save percentage. LA and Pitts. play
> both an offensive style of play. You just missed the original question. No
> way LA finishes at the bottom of the division as Gary had originally said.
Well, I never said I agreed that the Kings would get knocked out. Quite the
opposite I expect them to make a good run at the division crown. I also
expect them to get knocked out of the playoffs by a Smythe team, if they
don't get some defense. As for NJ, I don't know whether it's the defense
or the goalie. But from what I've seen from Pitt. and LA (only one game
from the latter) it looks to be defense rather than goaltending that's
hurting the team. But who knows, maybe they'd be just as bad with a good
defense.
> Robinson and Duchesne and Benning and Laidlaw and Watters all high pluses on
> plus and minus, does that mean its a bad defense?? LA has the best powerplay
> and the 18th best penalty killing, thats why they are not higher then they
> are. Is this the goaltenders fault or the defenses??
No, but with the offensive powerhouses they have, you would expect a few
high plus-minus defensemen, no matter how bad the defense is. Who's fault?
I don't know. As I said above, I guess we'll find out if the Kings trade
for some quality defensemen.
>
> Tell that to the Oilers. And how could they win all those cups with that great
> defense behind them........
To every rule there's an exception. But from what I remember the Oilers
defensive game and goaltending was at least just below average. Right now
the Kings can almost be called pitiful compared to the rest of the league.
Here's something for you to mull over. In each division the team that has
scored the most goals per game is no better than third place. The teams at
the top are all 1st or 2nd in the best in goals allowed per game.
edward.lor
>But Hrudey and the Kings are at the bottom in GAA. I've said it before,
>offense wins games and defense wins championships. The real question here
>is why the high GAA? Is it a bad goalie? Bad defense? The offense oriented
>style of play? My guess is that it's probably a combination of the last two.
>The Kings had better trade for defense, and then we can decide on Hrudey.
It's not that the Kings are standing pat. After getting Gretzky, the Kings
have had Doug Crossmann, Larry Robinson, Barry Beck, Tom Laidlaw as defensemen.
They are main cogs in some impressive Patrick/Adams division defenses.
But when these people moved to L.A., their defensive magic just disappeared.
I am particularly disappointed at Robinson. True, he doesn't have the legs
anymore, but I expect him to have the emotional boost, the leadership, the
intangibles on the younger players around him (aka Langway). As it turns
out, the young defensemen have not improved a bit.
>I agree that it's not fair to judge the trade, but for different reasons.
>You can't judge a goalie solely by his record.
Hrudey is just at the wrong place. Rogie Vachon has an obsession on
Patrick Division goalies. But all the former Patrick Division goalies (Rollie
Melanson, Al Jensen) he acquired have had their GAA ballooned and played
their way out of the league.
--
Edward Lor
AT&T Bell Labs
bryan.k.strouse
> Well, I never said I agreed that the Kings would get knocked out. Quite the
> opposite I expect them to make a good run at the division crown. I also
> expect them to get knocked out of the playoffs by a Smythe team, if they
> don't get some defense. As for NJ, I don't know whether it's the defense
> or the goalie. But from what I've seen from Pitt. and LA (only one game
> from the latter) it looks to be defense rather than goaltending that's
> hurting the team. But who knows, maybe they'd be just as bad with a good
> defense.
Both Pittsburgh and LA have this philosphy that the offensive zone is the
attacking zone and some of the defensemen attack more in the offensive
zone. Thus sometimes they get caught on a lot of 3 on 2's and 2 on 1's.
This is what a Paul Coffey or a Steve Duchense does for a team and not
giving a Wendell Young or a Kelly Hrudey not much of a chance. Still, both
of these teams will be around at the end using this philosphy. Sometimes
it works and sometimes it doesn't, both hope that it works enough til the
finals.
You see, every division has a style associated to it. The Norris has the
rough and tumble tag put on it, the Adams has the defensive philosphy
associated with it, the Patrick has a real tight close checking aura
throughout the teams, and the Smythe has a wide open offensive attack from
each team. It's important to match up with the team's in your division
and not the rest of the league, since that's what you'll be meeting at the
end for at least 8 games besides the 24 regular season games which are
important in the standings. All this goes out the window when you meet
a Chicago or a Montreal in the later stages, and all game plans don't mean
as much as the battle in the divisions.
> No, but with the offensive powerhouses they have, you would expect a few
> high plus-minus defensemen, no matter how bad the defense is. Who's fault?
> I don't know. As I said above, I guess we'll find out if the Kings trade
> for some quality defensemen.
Like I said, I don't think it's the defenses fault, just the style of the
game. I think coach Webster will start to turn this around toward the end
of the season. The Kings already have 2 shutouts this year already. They
already have traded for Benning and got rid of Muscleman Baumgartner, both
defensemen.
> To every rule there's an exception. But from what I remember the Oilers
> defensive game and goaltending was at least just below average. Right now
> the Kings can almost be called pitiful compared to the rest of the league.
I wouldn't say they are pitiful, like the stats I posted before, just below average like the Oilers once were. Who knows, they are ahead of every Patrick
division team.
were.
> Here's something for you to mull over. In each division the team that has
> scored the most goals per game is no better than third place. The teams at
> the top are all 1st or 2nd in the best in goals allowed per game.
Most of the teams at the top are only separated by a few points anyway, this
don't mean as much as it would at games 70-79.
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-SPIKE-