Habs SUCK!!!!!!!
Scott Rixon
> Cup winners since expansion:
>
> 9 MTL 68 69 71 76 77 78 79 86 93
> 5 EDM 84 85 87 88 90
> 4 NYI 80 81 82 83
> 2 BOS 70 72
> PHI 73 74
> PIT 90 91
> 1 CAL 89
> NYR 94
>
>Disclaimer: I know I'm missing 1975. In fact, I'm not very sure about what
> I've written for 70-74 either, but I'm pretty sure I'm close.
> (I'm at work with no way to check.)
Correction: Pittsburgh in 91 and 92. It's been a while since they awarded
the Cup twice in the same year :-) And Philly in 74 and 75, with Montreal
in 73 (so that's 10 since expansion). C'mon, I'm not even a Habs fan. I
I thought all Habs fans know every year they've won it. I'm disappointed :-)
The Islander
--
Scott Rixon, Chemical Physics | "Whoooaaaa, look at that end
University of Victoria | zone... it's hhhuuugggeee!"
Victoria, BC, Canada []*[] | - Tiny Elvis, watching his
sri...@sol.uvic.ca | first CFL game
Michael McLaren
: Man i'm sick of u Hab fans out there...you guys think your team is so
: great when in fact they suck...u guys can only brag about how many cups your
Please explain to me just exactly *what* measure you are using
here to loftily proclaim that the "Habs suck." You are complaining about
the fact that Montreal fans proudly point to the 24 Stanley Cups won by
les Canadiens, yet you offer no quantitative statistics to back up your
own argument?
: stupid team has won...the time most of the cups were won (and i really mean
: most) was when there was only 6 teams around...geez i wonder how hard it must
You *really* mean most eh? So 14 cups before expansion and 10
after expansion - you think having won 58% of their cups prior to
expansion and 42% since is really all that much more?
: have been to win a cup back then...and don't tell me the habs won there
You wonder how hard it must have been to win the cup then? Let's
make it easy for you here. Imagine today if there were only 6 teams.
There would be no Mighty Ducks or Ottawa Senators to play against. The
top 120 scorers in the NHL would be ALL the scorers in the NHL. Teams
would be loaded with talent, and all the teams should be extremely
competitive. It is not all that difficult to argue that it really was
harder to win cups back then.
The Boston Bruins came into the league after Montreal had won ONE
Stanley Cup, so let's be nice and take that away from Montreal. Has
Boston then won 23 Stanley Cups? Nope, they've won only five (3 of which
were pre-expansion).
How about the Chicago Blackhawks? Again, when they came into the
league, Montreal had won one Stanley Cup. Has Chicago won 23 Stanley
Cups? Nope, they've only won 3 (ALL of which were pre-expansion).
Hmm, what about the Detroit Redwings? They've won 7 Stanley
Cups, all of which were pre-expansion.
That brings us to the Mighty Leafs of Toronto. They have won 13
Stanley Cups, again they have won none since expansion, all of their cups
were won with 6 teams in the NHL.
Then we have the New York Rangers. The Rangers have won four
Stanley Cups, with the only post-expansion cup coming last year.
As a point of interest, how about your ruling Flyers? During the
Flyers' existence they have won two Stanley Cups. In that *same* time
period Montreal has won TEN. Does this mean, if the "Habs Suck" as you
say that, that the Flyers suck 500% more?
: recent cup by skill they were plain flukey (especially Roy)....so all u habs
: fans should be shot and put away....
One man's fluke is another man's hard work. The Montreal
Canadiens outlasted the other teams in 1993. They were the ones on top
when it came right down to it, and the last time I checked, the whole
reason for playing the season was to win the Cup. There may have been
more talented teams, like the Penguins, or whathaveyou, but what good is
all that "skill" if it gets you booted out in the first round? I'll take
a team of workers that wins hardware any day.
Your argument, I'm afraid, holds no water. It is astounding to me
that this argument (it's not really an argument as there never really is
any supporting detail for the premise) manages to persist. By your
account the "Flyers Rule" yet for the past, what, FIVE years the Flyers
haven't even been able to MAKE the playoffs let alone win the Stanley
Cup? I don't care by what standard you hold the Montreal Canadiens to,
be it a historical one or simply a post-expansion one, they will come out
as the greatest team of all time, in hockey, and probably in professional
sports around the globe. Year in and year out Montreal challenges for
the Stanley Cup - they don't have the high draft picks that teams like
the Flyers get, in drafting terms they are penalized for their success,
but again Montreal uses what it has to consistently win Stanley Cups.
With all that facing you, how can you possibley, unless you are
incredibly ignorant (which your closing comments would seem to indicate)
deny the greatness of les Canadiens de Montreal?
/\\ike
HABS TO THE TOP
Michael McLaren
: in a *very* long time. This is *not* a response to a hyperbolic post;
: it just came out of the blue. *This* is exactly the sort of thing we
: Hab fans have to endure and why we respond with our team's Cup
: record. We *don't* go bragging about it without provocation.
: J. Lange -- A Vancouver Habs Fan (~4,900 km from the Forum)
Yes, it's such a joy being in Vancouver isn't it :) Sigh, I
think it's time to phone up old Dan Russel on Sportstalk and give him
another 15 minute call - this sort of thing just brings it out. I
actually don't listen to him anymore - especially after his 1993 comment
of "Only great teams deserve to win the Stanley Cup and Montreal is not a
great team, therefore they don't deserve the Cup." Ugh.
/\\ike
GO HABS GO
GO (Away) BETTMAN GO (Far, far away)
Thind Surinder Singh
great when in fact they suck...u guys can only brag about how many cups your
most) was when there was only 6 teams around...geez i wonder how hard it must
fans should be shot and put away....
FLYERS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gerry Warner
>
>In a previous article, mmcl...@unixg.ubc.ca (Michael McLaren) says:
>
>
> You wonder how hard it must have been to win the cup then? Let's
>make it easy for you here. Imagine today if there were only 6 teams.
>There would be no Mighty Ducks or Ottawa Senators to play against. The
>top 120 scorers in the NHL would be ALL the scorers in the NHL. Teams
>would be loaded with talent, and all the teams should be extremely
>competitive. It is not all that difficult to argue that it really was
>harder to win cups back then.
Perhaps not, but it would be difficult to argue *logically* that it
really was harder to win cups back then. No doubt about it, the odds
of winning the cup in a 6-team league are much better than in a 12 or
17 or 21 or 26 team league. And you can't just take the top 120 players
today and call them equivalent to the top 120 of pre-expansions years.
Roughly 40% of today's top-120 are non-Canadian, thanks to the import
of talent from Europe and the growing interest in hockey in the USA.
Although it's pretty much a useless endeavour to compare teams of
different eras, one way of looking at relative Stanley Cup success
is to look at weighted Cup points. Cups wins are weighted by one
of the following four factors: a) Number of teams in league
b) Number of playoff rounds c) number of teams which make playoffs
d) percentage of league which makes playoffs.
a) So according to a) (and not counting pre-NHL Cup)
Montreal has: (teams*cups)
(4*1)+(10*2)+(6*10)+(12*2)+(14*1)+(16*1)+(17*4)+(21*1)+(26*1)
= 243 Cup Points
By contrast, Edmonton would be 2nd with 21*5 = 105 pts.
(tho' Toronto might be close depending on how many they won
in the 10 or 8 team pre-Original Six days).
b) we get (2*13)+(3*8)+(4*2) = 58 Cup points
(note than on average, I'm assuming 2 rounds per year in the
pre-expansion years. Early on there were other systems of
playoffs prior to the 1942-43 original six).
Here I'd peg TO as 2nd with 13*2 = 26 pts
and EDM next at 5*4 = 20 pts.
c) and d) You get the idea: Montreal will still come out overwhelmingly
on top, while Toronto's successes will be reduced to roughly the same
status as Edmonton and the Islanders.
Is any of this meaningful? I'd have to say no.
Another thing one might do is divide the Cup points by years in the
league to get a pts-per-season rating. Here, by a), EDM at 105/14=7.5
more than doubles the Habs rating.
l8r,
--
****************************************** /CCCCCCCCCCC| ******************
Gerry Warner / au...@freenet.carleton.ca |C|~~|H__H|~~~ 17 11 12
Aerospace Engineering / Carleton U. |C|__|H~~H|___ 27 24
****************************************** \CCCCCCCCCCC| ********33********
FLOUNDERING IN A QUANTUM SEA...
sth...@ee.ualberta.ca (Thind Surinder Singh) writes...
>Man i'm sick of u Hab fans out there...
Oh dear Lord, here we go again...
>u guys can only brag about how many cups your stupid team has won...
No, but since *you* brought it up, 24!
>the time most of the cups were won (and i really mean
>most) was when there was only 6 teams around...geez i wonder how hard it must
>have been to win a cup back then...
Ok, then let's look at the Cup winners since expansion:
9 MTL 68 69 71 76 77 78 79 86 93
5 EDM 84 85 87 88 90
4 NYI 80 81 82 83
2 BOS 70 72
PHI 73 74
PIT 90 91
1 CAL 89
NYR 94
Disclaimer: I know I'm missing 1975. In fact, I'm not very sure about what
I've written for 70-74 either, but I'm pretty sure I'm close.
(I'm at work with no way to check.)
Point is, Montreal has done not too bad since expansion.
>and don't tell me the habs won there
>recent cup by skill they were plain flukey (especially Roy)....
Ok. The recent Cup win was managed by a gritty all out *team* effort
from every line that somehow managed to find a way to win when the
chips were down. (As someones daughter said when the Habs went into
overtime against Buffalo, "We've won the game!")
>so all u habs
>fans should be shot and put away....
Note to all those who complain about Habs fans:
There has not been an article posted about the greatness of the Habs
in a *very* long time. This is *not* a response to a hyperbolic post;
it just came out of the blue. *This* is exactly the sort of thing we
Hab fans have to endure and why we respond with our team's Cup
record. We *don't* go bragging about it without provocation.
>(Pardeep Thind borrowing his bros account)
>FLYERS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And a newbie starts the flow of napalm... <sigh>
J. Lange -- A Vancouver Habs Fan (~4,900 km from the Forum)
---
TLB The Montreal Canadiens must be God's team because they win Stanley Cups
by Divine Right and occasional Heavenly Intervention.
Not that there's anything wrong with that! Not at all. "1967"
FLOUNDERING IN A QUANTUM SEA...
sri...@sol.UVic.CA (Scott Rixon) writes...
>Correction: Pittsburgh in 91 and 92. It's been a while since they awarded
>the Cup twice in the same year :-) And Philly in 74 and 75, with Montreal
>in 73 (so that's 10 since expansion). C'mon, I'm not even a Habs fan. I
>I thought all Habs fans know every year they've won it. I'm disappointed :-)
I hang my head in shame! My previous disclaimer aside, these midnight
shifts on top of a full-time schedule at school must be taking their toll. But
then again, I've always been fuzzy on the early 70's. I guess Boston winning
the Cup will tend to make ones head spin... :-)