LUC ROBITAILLE IS THE BALLS
Stephane Belair
> <LUC ROBITAILLE IS WITHOUT A DOUBT THE BEST LEFT WING EVER TO PLAY IN THE
> NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE. NO LEFT WING IN THE HISTORY OF HOCKEY HAS SCORED AS
> CONSISTENTLY. IF HIS PRESENT SCORING PACE CONTINUES HE WILL REACH THE 400
> GOAL MARK FASTER THAN ANY OTHER LEFT WING IN THE HISTORY OF HOCKEY. AS FAR AS
> ALL OF YOU ASSHOLES THAT THINK IT IS BECAUSE HE PLAYED ON THE SAME LINE AS
> WAYNE GRETZKY WELL YOUR FULL OF SHIT. THE ONLY TIME HE PLAYED WITH THE
> "ALRIGHT ONE" WAS SPORADICALLY ON THE POWER PLAY. HE PLAYED ON THE SECOND LINE
> MOST OF THE TIME WHEN HE WAS ON THE KINGS. EVEN BEFORE GRETZKY CAME TO
> L.A. HE SCORED LIKE A FUCKING ANIMAL. HE WON THE CALDER TROPHY AS A ROOKIE
> AND HAS BEEN NAME A FIRST ALL STAR SELECTION ALMOST EVERY YEAR HE HAS BEEN IN
> THE LEAGUE. AS FAR AS ALL YOU COCKS THAT THINK KEVIN STEVENS IS BETTER, I GOT
> ONE THING TO SAY TO YOU. IF YOU THINK HE SCORED ALOT PLAYING WITH MARIO "THE
> REAL AND ONLY GREAT ONE" WAIT'LL YOU SEE WHAT ROBITAILLE DOES.
>
> P.S. FUCK WAYNE GRETZKY. ANYONE CAN GET 212 POINTS WITH JARI KURRI, MARK
> MESSIER, GLENN ANDERSON, PAUL COFFEY, AND KEVIN LOWE ON THEIR POWER PLAY.
> MARIO LEMIEUX IS THE BEST HOCKEY PLAYER OF ALL TIME. HE MADE RANDY
> CUNNEYWORTH, DAN QUINN, AND ROB BROWN ALL STARS ONE YEAR AND NOW THAT THEY ARE
> ON SEPERATE TEAMS (MOSTLY MINOR LEAGUE) THEY SUCK. SO FUCK WAYNE GRETZKY AND
> ANYONE WHO THINKS HE'S THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME. HE'S BETTER THAN AVERAGE AND
> THAT'S IT.
that's right... release your anger................
P.S. Wayne IS the best. You obviously haven't watched him play, cause
your comments are very ignorant comments..
Anyone can get 212 points with Jari Kurri, Mark Messier, anderson, coffey
and lowe??? geez... how come THEY didn't get 212 points???? !
your arguments are full of shit.
Steph
Kennedy
What was the topic of your message? I think you made a typo--it should
read "Luc Robitaille has no balls". Have we been watching the same
player? How do you compare him to Gretzky in terms of explosive
offensive talent? Your arguement that Gretz wouldn't have scored 212
points w/o Kurri, Messier, etc. on his line is weak; Robitaille has a
few minor talents too. Ever heard of Jagr, Francis, Stevens, Sandstrom,
Straka and McEachren?? These guys, while not in the caliber of Messier,
et al, are pretty damn good.
Put Robitaille on the 80's Oilers in Gretzky's place and the Islanders
would have had a couple more cups, as would the Bruins.
Rob Kennedy
Habs Rule
#11 Kirk Muller, we miss you!
Matthew Donlan
Steve Bogas
is no misunderstanding. In <40b4q6$s...@news.bu.edu> matt...@bu.edu
Edgar A. Hirzel
>LUC ROBITAILLE IS WITHOUT A DOUBT THE BEST LEFT WING EVER TO PLAY IN THE
>NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE. NO LEFT WING IN THE HISTORY OF HOCKEY HAS SCORED AS
>CONSISTENTLY.
Please stop the yelling. Although I don't dislike Luc, I will have to
argue that he is NOT consistent. Let's look at his recent performances
when it counted:
1991 Smythe Division Playoffs: Tank
1992 Smythe Division Playoffs: Tank
1993 Stanley Cup Finals: Tank
1995 Eastern Conference Semifinals: Tank
With the exception of the winning goal against the Caps (mainly due to a
great set-up by Francois Leroux), I would say he choked in the
quarterfinals this year, as well.
>THE LEAGUE. AS FAR AS ALL YOU COCKS THAT THINK KEVIN STEVENS IS BETTER, I GOT
>ONE THING TO SAY TO YOU. IF YOU THINK HE SCORED ALOT PLAYING WITH MARIO "THE
>REAL AND ONLY GREAT ONE" WAIT'LL YOU SEE WHAT ROBITAILLE DOES.
That remains to be seen, but he definitely didn't show much on the line
with arguably the best two-way center in the NHL, Francis. What you
won't see from Luc is him protecting Mario from goons like Kasparitis or
Ulfie (if he's traded). You also won't see Luc digging pucks out of the
corner or making a huge hit. I'd take Stevens anyday on Mario's line.
Also, Stevens has two nice finger ornaments while Luc still doesn't.
>P.S. FUCK WAYNE GRETZKY. ANYONE CAN GET 212 POINTS WITH JARI KURRI, MARK
>MESSIER, GLENN ANDERSON, PAUL COFFEY, AND KEVIN LOWE ON THEIR POWER PLAY.
Okay, genius, tell me how did Gretzky win the Art Ross Trophy in 1994
without all these players at his wing when the Kings didn't even make
the playoffs?
>MARIO LEMIEUX IS THE BEST HOCKEY PLAYER OF ALL TIME. HE MADE RANDY
>CUNNEYWORTH, DAN QUINN, AND ROB BROWN ALL STARS ONE YEAR AND NOW THAT THEY ARE
>ON SEPERATE TEAMS (MOSTLY MINOR LEAGUE) THEY SUCK. SO FUCK WAYNE GRETZKY AND
>ANYONE WHO THINKS HE'S THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME. HE'S BETTER THAN AVERAGE AND
>THAT'S IT.
Better than average? Led the NHL in scoring ten times and won the Hart
Trophy nine times and he's just "better than average"? Give some credit
where it's due. I will say, however, that if your statement was
something like Lemieux at his prime is better than Gretzky at his prime,
then it may have some validity. (Gretzky said so himself in his
biography.) Nonetheless, I would put Gretzky as one of the all-time
sports athelete up there with Chamberlin, Jim Brown, Pele, Ty Cobb, and
Secretariat.
I hope you're not a Pens fan, BTW. You certainly don't make us look good.
GO PENS!
ed
Eric Masson
Kevin Sterner <ste...@sel.hep.upenn.edu> wrote:
>> 3 Ron Hextall (remember the 1st round 2 years ago. Ugh)
>Woah, woah, woah! The man has his name engraved on the Conn Smythe
>trophy!
May I remind you that '87 was in a losing cause.
Hextall played an ok final and for that he got the Conn Smythe. Most players
have to be outstanding for 4 series to get that trophy. After Roy's
performance in the previous year, I would not have thought a goalie could win
the Conn Smythe on so little. In that series Hextall was sprawling all over the
place and he demonstrated that in a short period of time such a tactic can
almost pay off. The Flyers of then weren't exactly shy on quality defensemen
either and people tend to underestimate their input.
>How can you call him a playoff tanker? Sure he stank with the
>Islanders, but they shouldn't even have been on the ice.
Two years ago was with the powerful Nords for which Hextall crumbled
like a dry cracker after his team took a two game lead against Montreal.
It was the beginning of the downfall for the Nords and Hextall started it
all. With the Isles he was not any better.
>Yeah, OK, that's fine...but extend the same caveat to Hexy. Hextall was
>far and away the Flyers' playoff MVP this year, and the Flyers were
>great in the playoffs. Nobody disputes either statement.i
Nobody ? Hextall royally chocked in the first two games against the
Devils. Being the prime factor in putting your team on the verge of
elimination is not what a playoff MVP is all about.
In addition he let in about a weak goal a game. Need I remind you about
a certain goal with a minute late of Game 5 versus the Devils ? Against the
Ramgers Hextall had week first periods causing and the first two games went
to overtime because of that. Hextall was a very average player in these
playoffs.
>As much as it pains me to say it (being a huge Flyers fan), if we use
>your definition above, Eric Lindros is the tanker of the season. :-(
>NOT Hextall. :-)
In the case of Lindros I think he'll come back even stronger next year
and show us all. He has to add a creative dimension to his game. Although
that is not easy, he is of the kind that can do it. In Hextall's case
it is too late.
I'm still astonished that some Philly fans are still in awe of Ron.
Dominic Roussel had an excellent season the year before last with
a 29-20-5 record on a pathetic defensive team that played .500 along with
good percentage. This year he posted a winning record with a good GAA.
But when the "trade" that changed the team around occurred he was barely
played. When Hextall was replaced for his pathetic display in game
2 against the Devils Dom came out and blanked the swarming Devils in the
third period. In game 3 Hextall was put back in net and let in the most
awful goal of the playoffs in the first minutes (goal 2 was not too brilliant
either). Hextall was good in game 4 against the Devils and little else.
The reason the Flyers got far into the playoffs is because of their offense.
The reason why they lost is also because of their offense (halting).
Hextall should not be credited for he plays little part of.
Hextall does not represent the future for the Flyers. The Flyers
should have given another goaltender some playoff
experience instead of persisting with him.
Salut,
Eric
p.s. If I were the Blues I'd try to get my hands on Roussel. Cheap and
talented.
--
=================================================================
Eric Masson - er...@finnegan.ee.mcgill.ca - FAX: 514 398 4470
=================================================================
Toki Barron
>That remains to be seen, but he definitely didn't show much on the line
>with arguably the best two-way center in the NHL, Francis. What you
>won't see from Luc is him protecting Mario from goons like Kasparitis or
>Ulfie (if he's traded). You also won't see Luc digging pucks out of the
>corner or making a huge hit. I'd take Stevens anyday on Mario's line.
>Also, Stevens has two nice finger ornaments while Luc still doesn't.
protecting either, so basically it didn't matter who was traded. Kasparitis is
much more than a goon, I think the word you want is "super-pest."
--------------------------------
Toki Barron
GM/Coach Hornets (ISHHL version)
http://www.pitt.edu/~thbst8
Tom Collins
> <LUC ROBITAILLE IS WITHOUT A DOUBT THE BEST LEFT WING EVER TO PLAY IN THE
> NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE. NO LEFT WING IN THE HISTORY OF HOCKEY HAS.....
<....Additional flapping deleted.....>
*****************
Luc Robitalle has some tallent, but what sticks in my mind about him is
that he's a cowardly little puke in the corners who is always hearing
footsteps from behind...and Luc in the playoffs?.....nuff said.
to...@farallon.com
*****************
Kevin Sterner
> I would make a case that he is amongst the most consistent playoff tankers in
> the league. I've got an idea - who are your favorite playoff tankers. I mean
> guys who fill the net all season and then disappear in the post season (or
> goalies who do the same thing). A few that come immediately to mind are:
>
> 1 Luc
> 2 Dave Andreychuck
> 3 Ron Hextall (remember the 1st round 2 years ago. Ugh)
Woah, woah, woah! The man has his name engraved on the Conn Smythe
trophy! How can you call him a playoff tanker? Sure he stank with the
Islanders, but they shouldn't even have been on the ice.
> 4 Anybody from the Nordiques/Avalanche
> 5 Gilmour (without Wendall)
> 6 Ed Belfour (the pre 95 version - he was HUGE this year)
Yeah, OK, that's fine...but extend the same caveat to Hexy. Hextall was
far and away the Flyers' playoff MVP this year, and the Flyers were
great in the playoffs. Nobody disputes either statement.
As much as it pains me to say it (being a huge Flyers fan), if we use
your definition above, Eric Lindros is the tanker of the season. :-(
NOT Hextall. :-)
> 7 The much talked about St Louis Blues team. When did they last win anything?
> Mebbe they should coax Gary Unger and the Gumper out of retirement!
> 8 Come on there's more. We should be able to come up with at least 100.
>
> Rod
-- K.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin L. Sterner | U. Penn. High Energy Physics | Smash the welfare state!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack...out there somewhere
> <LUC ROBITAILLE IS WITHOUT A DOUBT THE BEST LEFT WING EVER TO PLAY IN THE
> NATIONAL HOCKEY LEAGUE. NO LEFT WING IN THE HISTORY OF HOCKEY HAS SCORED AS
> CONSISTENTLY. IF HIS PRESENT SCORING PACE CONTINUES HE WILL REACH THE 400
> GOAL MARK FASTER THAN ANY OTHER LEFT WING IN THE HISTORY OF HOCKEY. AS FAR AS
> ALL OF YOU ASSHOLES THAT THINK IT IS BECAUSE HE PLAYED ON THE SAME LINE AS
> WAYNE GRETZKY WELL YOUR FULL OF SHIT. THE ONLY TIME HE PLAYED WITH THE
> "ALRIGHT ONE" WAS SPORADICALLY ON THE POWER PLAY. HE PLAYED ON THE SECOND LINE
> MOST OF THE TIME WHEN HE WAS ON THE KINGS. EVEN BEFORE GRETZKY CAME TO
> L.A. HE SCORED LIKE A FUCKING ANIMAL. HE WON THE CALDER TROPHY AS A ROOKIE
> AND HAS BEEN NAME A FIRST ALL STAR SELECTION ALMOST EVERY YEAR HE HAS BEEN IN
> THE LEAGUE. AS FAR AS ALL YOU COCKS THAT THINK KEVIN STEVENS IS BETTER, I GOT
> ONE THING TO SAY TO YOU. IF YOU THINK HE SCORED ALOT PLAYING WITH MARIO "THE
> REAL AND ONLY GREAT ONE" WAIT'LL YOU SEE WHAT ROBITAILLE DOES.
>
> P.S. FUCK WAYNE GRETZKY. ANYONE CAN GET 212 POINTS WITH JARI KURRI, MARK
> MESSIER, GLENN ANDERSON, PAUL COFFEY, AND KEVIN LOWE ON THEIR POWER PLAY.
> MARIO LEMIEUX IS THE BEST HOCKEY PLAYER OF ALL TIME. HE MADE RANDY
> CUNNEYWORTH, DAN QUINN, AND ROB BROWN ALL STARS ONE YEAR AND NOW THAT THEY ARE
> ON SEPERATE TEAMS (MOSTLY MINOR LEAGUE) THEY SUCK. SO FUCK WAYNE GRETZKY AND
> ANYONE WHO THINKS HE'S THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME. HE'S BETTER THAN AVERAGE AND
> THAT'S IT.
Ah, a boyfriend of Luc's perhaps? Has Luc "don't hit me so hard in the
playoffs" robitaille said nasty things about gretzky during the pillowtalk?
Take a pill, you'll feel better.
--
Later, Jack
"...the nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the
means. On the contrary, the means always determine the end."-Aldous Huxley
Kostadis Roussos
In article <40dab7$m...@netnews.upenn.edu> ste...@sel.hep.upenn.edu (Kevin Sterner) writes:
<Playoff Tankers>
Eric Lindros: the great player who did not show up for the playoffs.
This guy is not in the 'Mario' or Gretzky league. Hell he is not even
in the Claude Lemieux League for playoff performance.
cheers,
kostadis.
David Ronemus
: Eric Lindros: the great player who did not show up for the playoffs.
: This guy is not in the 'Mario' or Gretzky league. Hell he is not even
: in the Claude Lemieux League for playoff performance.
: cheers,
: kostadis.
Lindros is all of 22 and just got his first taste of playoff
experience this year. Let's see how he does for the rest of the decade
before branding him a "playoff tanker." Gretzky and Lemieux didn't
hoist Lord Stanley's cup on their first trip to the postseason either.
And with regards to the other Lemieux, at least Eric showed up for
the regular season, when Claude was too busy high-sticking, spearing and
getting suspended for cheap-shotting the opposition from the bench to
make much of a contribution to his team's success.
-- DR
Rod MacBain
>Please stop the yelling. Although I don't dislike Luc, I will have to
>argue that he is NOT consistent. Let's look at his recent performances
>when it counted:
>1991 Smythe Division Playoffs: Tank
>1992 Smythe Division Playoffs: Tank
>1993 Stanley Cup Finals: Tank
>1995 Eastern Conference Semifinals: Tank
>With the exception of the winning goal against the Caps (mainly due to a
>great set-up by Francois Leroux), I would say he choked in the
>quarterfinals this year, as well.
Waddya mean, he's not consistent! It looks to me that he consistently tanks in
the playoffs.
I would make a case that he is amongst the most consistent playoff tankers in
the league. I've got an idea - who are your favorite playoff tankers. I mean
guys who fill the net all season and then disappear in the post season (or
goalies who do the same thing). A few that come immediately to mind are:
1 Luc
2 Dave Andreychuck
3 Ron Hextall (remember the 1st round 2 years ago. Ugh)
4 Anybody from the Nordiques/Avalanche
5 Gilmour (without Wendall)
6 Ed Belfour (the pre 95 version - he was HUGE this year)
Alex A Goddard
: Eric Lindros: the great player who did not show up for the playoffs.
: This guy is not in the 'Mario' or Gretzky league. Hell he is not even
: in the Claude Lemieux League for playoff performance.
No, he was only the best player on the ice whenever he was on the ice,
led his team to the final four, despite it being one of the 2 or 3 least
talented teams to make the playoffs, led his team in scoring...yeah
Lindros didn't show up for the playoffs. Gimmie a friggin' break.
Alex
Stephane Belair
David Ronemus (szro...@rocky.ucdavis.edu) writes:
> the regular season, when Claude was too busy high-sticking, spearing and
> getting suspended for cheap-shotting the opposition from the bench to
> make much of a contribution to his team's success.
i'm not a big Lemieux fan, but i feel i have to defend him on this one...
Lemieux (although he's known for dives, and being a pest) played GREAT in
the playoffs, while Lindros was doing the "spearing" and "cheap-shotting"
in the Flyers-Devils series. I like Lindros, and think he'll win teh Art
Ross this year, but he didn't play great hockey in that series, and the
frustration showed..
p.s. get over the "Brett lindros" incident!!! geez...
Steph
Greg Elmer
: I would make a case that he is amongst the most consistent playoff tankers in
: the league. I've got an idea - who are your favorite playoff tankers. I mean
: guys who fill the net all season and then disappear in the post season (or
: goalies who do the same thing). A few that come immediately to mind are:
: 5 Gilmour (without Wendall)
Yeah this past season was a bust for Gilmour BUT *he* took the leafs past
some pretty good teams in the 93-94 playoffs. Short memory...?
-Greg
Eric Masson
Kevin Sterner <ste...@sel.hep.upenn.edu> wrote:
>In article <40diio$o...@sarek.ee.mcgill.ca>,
>er...@sarek.ee.mcgill.ca (Eric Masson) writes:
>> In article <40dab7$m...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
>> Kevin Sterner <ste...@sel.hep.upenn.edu> wrote:
>> May I remind you that '87 was in a losing cause.
>That helps to prove my point. How many players from the losing team have
>won the Conn Smythe trophy? Boy, he really must have sucked...
Reggie Leech was the guy that won the previous Conn Smythe on a losing
side. He had to score 19 goals in three series to do it. That's the type
of performance you need to have to win the Conn Smythe on the losing team.
Hextall did nothing close to that. He had one good series (the final) and
had a very solid defense in front of him throughout.
>> Hextall played an ok final and for that he got the Conn Smythe. Most players
>> have to be outstanding for 4 series to get that trophy. After Roy's
>> performance in '86, I would not have thought a goalie could win
>> the Conn Smythe on so little. In that series Hextall was sprawling all over the
>> place and he demonstrated that in a short period of time such a tactic can
>> almost pay off. The Flyers of then weren't exactly shy on quality defensemen
>> either and people tend to underestimate their input.
>Sour grapes. You have a personal axe to grind against Hextall (I've no
>idea why), and will grasp at any straw to explain away his Conn Smythe
>trophy and his Vezina trophy.
His Vezina was won with a horrible GAA on a team with a solid defense. There
were better candidates such as Roy for the trophy. As for a personal axe against
Hextall I have none. I simply think he is greatly overrated by some Flyer fans.
>> >How can you call him a playoff tanker? Sure he stank with the
>> >Islanders, but they shouldn't even have been on the ice.
>> Two years ago was with the powerful Nords for which Hextall crumbled
>> like a dry cracker after his team took a two game lead against Montreal.
>> It was the beginning of the downfall for the Nords and Hextall started it
>> all. With the Isles he was not any better.
>Eh, sorry...I was thinking you meant "two seasons ago". Hex wasn't great
>with the Nords, but he was no disaster. "Average" doesn't get you into the
>Hall of Fame, but it doesn't mean you suck.
I think you have me confused with the original poster. Mine was only a reply.
Hextall played at an average level during the season but he crumbled
in the playoffs. This thread was about guys that are playoff chokers.
>> Nobody ? Hextall royally chocked in the first two games against the
>> Devils. Being the prime factor in putting your team on the verge of
>> elimination is not what a playoff MVP is all about.
>Bullshit. Look at the shot totals for those two games. The Devils were
>bombing the Flyers, and the Flyers' offense was non-existent.
The shots totals for the Devils were not that high throughout the
playoffs. 9 goals in 5 periods of play for Hexie. Roussel under the
same bombardment shut out the Devils for one period. If Hextall would
have covered one inch of his net in one of the goals of game 1 he would
have prevented a key goal. In game 2 he was simply pathetic. His temper
also flared up during those two games causing him to lose concentration.
>And don't forget (or rather, you wouldn't forget if you'd watched these
>series) that Hextall creamed the Sabres and the Rangers behind very spotty
>offense from his teammates.
Looking at the goal totals from the Flyers in those series I doubt
you can call the offense spotty.
>He was even brilliant in the one game they
>lost against Buffalo.
>Who do you think was the Flyers' playoff MVP, if not Hextall?
My choice would be Dineen, followed by Brind'Amour.
>As for letting in a weak goal per game, what about Ed Belfour vs.
>the Wings (the praise of whose performance I was responding to above)?
>He let in weak goals in OT.
I do not dispute that. I don't have that a high an opinion of Ed Belfour
either. He is better than Hextall though.
>Few people savage him for those softies,
>because they realize that without him, the Hawks had no business on
>the ice. Well, the same should go for Hextall.
Belfour played well in that series. I do not believe Belfour capable of
sustaining such a performance for 4 series. That's why I don't think
he's capable of bringing the cup home. He is a streaky guy that depends
on reflex rather than consistency.
Belfour and Hextall have the bad habit of making easy saves look
complicated by being out of position. Then they'll let in a softie
which will cost the games and some fans will say: "well it's not
his fault, look at all the stunt saves he pulled". And they'll forget
about the softie that opened and finished the game.
>> Against the
>> Ramgers Hextall had week first periods causing and the first two games went
>> to overtime because of that. Hextall was a very average player in these
>> playoffs.
>You have demonstrated time and again that you watched NOTHING of the
>Flyers in the playoffs until the Devils series. Hextall destroyed the
>Rangers.
I saw the Rangers series as well if that is what you are trying to get at.
Time and time again ? That was my first post in the thread. Hextall was
the prime reason why those two Ranger games went to OT.
>> In the case of Lindros I think he'll come back even stronger next year
>> and show us all.
>The first sensible comment in your post. All Flyers fans were disappointed
>by Lindros in the playoffs, but all Flyers fans expect him to tear up the
>league in the next playoffs.
We'll see. He has the potential.
>> He has to add a creative dimension to his game. Although
>> that is not easy, he is of the kind that can do it. In Hextall's case
>> it is too late.
>Needs to add a creative dimension? Lindros is one of the most creative
>playmakers around
His very own coach said that after the elimination.
Creative playmakers in the NHL are guys like Sergei Fedorov, Jeremy Roenick,
Pavel Bure, Pierre Turgeon, etc. Lindros is not part of that list.
He's a damn good hitter but he has shown little imagination. He creates
opportunities through bulldozing and when that doesn't work we've yet
to see his alternatives.
>Hextall practically invented the puckhandling-out-of-the-crease
>style of goaltending. It only seems uncreative because it caught on.
That would be Jacques Plante. He was the guy that made goalies go out
of their net to puck handle. Before that it was stay at home.
As for Hextall being a good puck handling goalie he is definitely the
best I've ever seen doing it. But if you want to look at the goaltender
that makes the best usage of his stick to stop puck then you have to
look at Martin Bordeur. Best poke check in the league and very good with
his stick flat on the ice.
>> The reason the Flyers got far into the playoffs is because of their offense.
>This is the *joke* of your post. The Flyers' offense was anemic
>throughout the playoffs.
>The defensive corps was so-so. Hextall
>carried the team on his back. That tears you up, doesn't it?
4,3,1,4,6
5,4,5,4
These were the goal totals for the Flyers in the first two series.
Hardly anemic. Don't confuse an anemic Legion of Doom
with an anemic Flyer offense.
A I stated the reason the Flyers got far into the playoffs is because of
their offense and the reason they got eliminated is because their
offense stopped putting up the same numbers.
>> Hextall does not represent the future for the Flyers.
>Not in the long term, no. In the near term, certainly.
>> The Flyers
>> should have given another goaltender some playoff
>> experience instead of persisting with him.
>"Give another goaltender some playoff experience" means "give up and
>admit defeat". Why don't I blame the Flyers for NOT doing that?
Not at all. Some goaltenders do very well from the start. Ken Dryden,
Patrick Roy are examples.
Salut,
Eric
David Ronemus
: i'm not a big Lemieux fan, but i feel i have to defend him on this one...
: Lemieux (although he's known for dives, and being a pest) played GREAT in
: the playoffs, while Lindros was doing the "spearing" and "cheap-shotting"
: in the Flyers-Devils series. I like Lindros, and think he'll win teh Art
: Ross this year, but he didn't play great hockey in that series, and the
: frustration showed..
Nowhere did I suggest that Claude the Fraud didn't have an
outstanding postseason - his performance speaks for itself. But he was a
complete waste of a roster spot during the season, tallying the astounding
total of SIX goals in 40+ games. This is a player having the skills to be
one of the top all-around wingers in the NHL who never comes close to
realizing these abilities until the playoffs. Claude Lemieux is not so
much a playoff overachiever as he is a tremendously talented underachiever
who seems to come out of the woodwork every May/June and show glimpses of
what a great player he could be. With motivation and a work ethic he
would be a superstar; instead, he's just an above-average winger with a
few impressive postseasons to his credit.
-- DR
Kevin Sterner
> In article <40dab7$m...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
> Kevin Sterner <ste...@sel.hep.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
> >> 3 Ron Hextall (remember the 1st round 2 years ago. Ugh)
>
> >Woah, woah, woah! The man has his name engraved on the Conn Smythe
> >trophy!
>
> May I remind you that '87 was in a losing cause.
That helps to prove my point. How many players from the losing team have
won the Conn Smythe trophy? Boy, he really must have sucked...
> Hextall played an ok final and for that he got the Conn Smythe. Most players
> have to be outstanding for 4 series to get that trophy. After Roy's
> performance in the previous year, I would not have thought a goalie could win
> the Conn Smythe on so little. In that series Hextall was sprawling all over the
> place and he demonstrated that in a short period of time such a tactic can
> almost pay off. The Flyers of then weren't exactly shy on quality defensemen
> either and people tend to underestimate their input.
Sour grapes. You have a personal axe to grind against Hextall (I've no
idea why), and will grasp at any straw to explain away his Conn Smythe
trophy and his Vezina trophy.
> >How can you call him a playoff tanker? Sure he stank with the
> >Islanders, but they shouldn't even have been on the ice.
>
> Two years ago was with the powerful Nords for which Hextall crumbled
> like a dry cracker after his team took a two game lead against Montreal.
> It was the beginning of the downfall for the Nords and Hextall started it
> all. With the Isles he was not any better.
Eh, sorry...I was thinking you meant "two seasons ago". Hex wasn't great
with the Nords, but he was no disaster. "Average" doesn't get you into the
Hall of Fame, but it doesn't mean you suck.
Yes, Hextall had a couple of mediocre seasons. What I can't understand
is why people dump on him now that he's had a great season, and then
go back to bitch about his past great seasons.
> >Yeah, OK, that's fine...but extend the same caveat to Hexy. Hextall was
> >far and away the Flyers' playoff MVP this year, and the Flyers were
> >great in the playoffs. Nobody disputes either statement.i
>
> Nobody ? Hextall royally chocked in the first two games against the
> Devils. Being the prime factor in putting your team on the verge of
> elimination is not what a playoff MVP is all about.
Bullshit. Look at the shot totals for those two games. The Devils were
bombing the Flyers, and the Flyers' offense was non-existent.
And don't forget (or rather, you wouldn't forget if you'd watched these
series) that Hextall creamed the Sabres and the Rangers behind very spotty
offense from his teammates. He was even brilliant in the one game they
lost against Buffalo.
Who do you think was the Flyers' playoff MVP, if not Hextall?
> In addition he let in about a weak goal a game. Need I remind you about
> a certain goal with a minute late of Game 5 versus the Devils ?
You needn't remind me at all. If that goal hadn't gone in, the Flyers would
have won the Stanley Cup. And Hexy would have another Conn Smythe trophy.
As for letting in a weak goal per game, what about Ed Belfour vs.
the Wings (the praise of whose performance I was responding to above)?
He let in weak goals in OT. Few people savage him for those softies,
because they realize that without him, the Hawks had no business on
the ice. Well, the same should go for Hextall.
>Against the
> Ramgers Hextall had week first periods causing and the first two games went
> to overtime because of that. Hextall was a very average player in these
> playoffs.
You have demonstrated time and again that you watched NOTHING of the
Flyers in the playoffs until the Devils series. Hextall destroyed the
Rangers.
> >As much as it pains me to say it (being a huge Flyers fan), if we use
> >your definition above, Eric Lindros is the tanker of the season. :-(
> >NOT Hextall. :-)
>
> In the case of Lindros I think he'll come back even stronger next year
> and show us all.
The first sensible comment in your post. All Flyers fans were disappointed
by Lindros in the playoffs, but all Flyers fans expect him to tear up the
league in the next playoffs.
>He has to add a creative dimension to his game. Although
> that is not easy, he is of the kind that can do it. In Hextall's case
> it is too late.
Needs to add a creative dimension? Lindros is one of the most creative
playmakers around (although he didn't show it in the playoffs save for
a few times vs. Buffalo--his humiliation of Zhitnik was the play of
the year). Hextall practically invented the puckhandling-out-of-the-crease
style of goaltending. It only seems uncreative because it caught on.
> The reason the Flyers got far into the playoffs is because of their offense.
This is the *joke* of your post. The Flyers' offense was anemic
throughout the playoffs. The defensive corps was so-so. Hextall
carried the team on his back. That tears you up, doesn't it?
> Hextall does not represent the future for the Flyers.
Not in the long term, no. In the near term, certainly.
>The Flyers
> should have given another goaltender some playoff
> experience instead of persisting with him.
"Give another goaltender some playoff experience" means "give up and
admit defeat". Why don't I blame the Flyers for NOT doing that?
> p.s. If I were the Blues I'd try to get my hands on Roussel. Cheap and
> talented.
Sounds fine to me, as long as the Blues want to unload another big
scorer on the cheap. The Flyers probably could have gotten Shanahan
for him.
Simon Nelson
(anyone heard of Bobby Hull or John Bucyk??)...I absolutely agree that Mario
is the best ever! Stephane Belair,bt...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA questions why
Gretzky's teammates couldn't score 212 points- I dunno, maybe because they
weren't on the ice anywhere nearly as often as Gretzky??
Mario has proved that:
1. He doesn't need good teammates to score like crazy
2. When he does have good teammates he laps the rest of the league in scoring
3. He is the most resilient and determined player in the league
4. He is capable of leading his team to the promised land
5. He has tremendous hockey savvy (he was the one who devised a new game plan
when the Pens trailed the Caps 3-1 in the playoffs several years ago, which
allowed them to come back and to eventually win the Cup)
6. He can embarass ANY player in the league with his plays
I just always wonder how badly he would have smashed Gretzky's scoring
records if he could ever play a full season.
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Jack...out there somewhere
(Simon Nelson) wrote:
[...]
>
> I just always wonder how badly he (mario lemieux) would have smashed Gretzky's >scoring records if he could ever play a full season.
Let's see. I wonder how far ahead of everyone Mike Bossy would be in goals
scored if not for his bad back. I also wonder how many norris trophies
bobby orr would have won if his knees didn't give out. I also wonder how
many points Gordie Howe would have if he could still play hockey at age 75.
If you want to talk about "might have beens" you can go on and on about
guys who got hurt and could never live up to their potential. The bottom
line is Gretzky did it. Everybody else just makes excuses why they didn't
do it.