SAINTS! SAINTS! SAINTS!
Kjunman
team has reached the promised land!!! WHO DAT BABY!!!
Frank Ketchum
"Kjunman" <hot...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:IbqdnX5Jt_35HPLW...@giganews.com...
> After waiting only 43 years of my 60 year old life, my
> team has reached the promised land!!! WHO DAT BABY!!!
A good game for sure. Can't call them the Aints anymore. Congrats.
bkn...@conramp.net
Sure punctured a big hole in the Manning for" Uber Quarterback of the
Century" campaign, huh? Congratulations N.O.
BK
dene
"Frank Ketchum" <nos...@thanksanyway.fu> wrote in message
news:ASLbn.75206$JE2....@newsfe09.iad...
I thought "The Who" did a nice job too.
-Greg
Howard Brazee
opposition. But that interception was pure homework and
preparation.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
MNMikeW
"Frank Ketchum" <nos...@thanksanyway.fu> wrote in message
news:ASLbn.75206$JE2....@newsfe09.iad...
>
Kurgan Gringioni
"dene" <de...@remove.ipns.com> wrote in message
news:7t9nle...@mid.individual.net...
They are a shadow of their former selves.
They gotta stop having old people perform at halftime. Rock and Roll is a
form of music which should be performed by either someone who is young or
someone who can act like they're young. Daltrey looked like his shoulders
had been in traction for the last year. Dude needs some yoga or something.
And the timing was definitely way, way off on some of the Daltrey/Townsend
vocal harmonies.
bkn...@conramp.net
As it has been always during live performances. Recordings hide tons
of things.
BK
Kurgan Gringioni
<bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
news:mol0n5lh0vj8a7gu1...@4ax.com...
>>
>>They are a shadow of their former selves.
>>
>>They gotta stop having old people perform at halftime. Rock and Roll is a
>>form of music which should be performed by either someone who is young or
>>someone who can act like they're young. Daltrey looked like his shoulders
>>had been in traction for the last year. Dude needs some yoga or something.
>>And the timing was definitely way, way off on some of the Daltrey/Townsend
>>vocal harmonies.
>
> As it has been always during live performances. Recordings hide tons
> of things.
OK, but Daltrey still wasn't able to give the impression of being young.
Townsend was not his former self, but he was not bad.
I saw The Who live in 1983 and I was blown away. This version just ain't the
same.
dene
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hkpj2a$nib$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Boy I disagree. I love having the classic performers doing it. However, my
expectations are lower, musically, so I wasn't put off by the things you
observed. Therefore, I was entertained by the choice of songs....how they
formatted it....light show.....audience participation, etc.
Ironically, it was the best part of the Super Bowl for me. I DVR'd it but
forgot to tell my youngest. Snacks are ready. Game is cued up....and then
she blurts, "Saints Won!"
So....I watched the half time show, 4th quarter, and called it a season.
-Greg
Kurgan Gringioni
>>
>> They are a shadow of their former selves.
>>
>> They gotta stop having old people perform at halftime. Rock and Roll is a
>> form of music which should be performed by either someone who is young or
>> someone who can act like they're young. Daltrey looked like his shoulders
>> had been in traction for the last year. Dude needs some yoga or
>> something.
>> And the timing was definitely way, way off on some of the
>> Daltrey/Townsend
>> vocal harmonies.
>>
>
> Boy I disagree. I love having the classic performers doing it. However,
> my
> expectations are lower, musically, so I wasn't put off by the things you
> observed. Therefore, I was entertained by the choice of songs....how they
> formatted it....light show.....audience participation, etc.
There is no right or wrong here since it's purely subjective.
I'll bet the approval/disapproval of their performance is correlated
generationally.
David Laville
> "Kjunman" <hot...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:IbqdnX5Jt_35HPLW...@giganews.com...
> > After waiting only 43 years of my 60 year old life, my
>> > team has reached the promised land!!! WHO DAT BABY!!!
>>
>> A good game for sure. Can't call them the Aints anymore. Congrats.
>
It's hard to imagine what the city is going through without being
here. When Manning failed to convert on 4th with a couple of minutes
left people started shooting fireworks. I looked out the door and you
could hear groups of people cheering blocks away. I was at my
brothers house for the game and a Super Bowl party and as I was
driving home about 11:00 people were standing on the street corners
with Saints flags cheering at the cars drove by and every one was
honking there horns. I went to bed about 1:00 AM and you could still
here people in the distance driving around honking their horns. I
know people who tried to go the French Quarter and they said you
couldn't get near it.
Mardi Gras is next week and this couldn't have happened at a better
time. Tomorrow night they are having a New Orleans Saints parade
through New Orleans with the Saints players. I won't miss it. For
those who don't know Mardi Gras is about a 2 week celebration that
ends on Mardi Gras day. Celebrating the Saints win along with Mardi
Gras this is probably going to be the biggest Mardi Gras New Orleans
has ever had.
David Laville G.S.E.M.
The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
bkn...@conramp.net
<dlav...@nospam.net> wrote:
>It's hard to imagine what the city is going through without being
>here. When Manning failed to convert on 4th with a couple of minutes
>left people started shooting fireworks. I looked out the door and you
>could hear groups of people cheering blocks away. I was at my
>brothers house for the game and a Super Bowl party and as I was
>driving home about 11:00 people were standing on the street corners
>with Saints flags cheering at the cars drove by and every one was
>honking there horns. I went to bed about 1:00 AM and you could still
>here people in the distance driving around honking their horns. I
>know people who tried to go the French Quarter and they said you
>couldn't get near it.
>
>Mardi Gras is next week and this couldn't have happened at a better
>time. Tomorrow night they are having a New Orleans Saints parade
>through New Orleans with the Saints players. I won't miss it. For
>those who don't know Mardi Gras is about a 2 week celebration that
>ends on Mardi Gras day. Celebrating the Saints win along with Mardi
>Gras this is probably going to be the biggest Mardi Gras New Orleans
>has ever had.
>
>
>David Laville G.S.E.M.
>The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
Have a great time David. You guys sure deserve it after all that has
gone your way.
bobby
dene
"David Laville" <dlav...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:g3a1n5t9jhpi46ei4...@4ax.com...
How is the city coming along? What is the stage in the rebuilding process?
Do you think it will be a better place than before?
-Greg
R&B
The day after the Super Bowl, I was in a local restaurant where they
have sports on the TVs all the time. I got to making small talk with
one of the workers there, and commented that the New Orleans Saints win
was good for the city of New Orleans, especially with all they'd been
through in the last several years since Katrina.
Like the right wing douchebag he is, this asshole started talking about
how there would have been less pain if the people of New Orleans had
just gotten out of town.
"A lot of lives were lost there," I reminded him. "Real life human
tragedy, you know."
"I know," he said. "And the mayor deserves a lot of the blame."
All I wanted to do was get my sandwich and leave instead of listening
to all these right wing talking points as if they had freshly spewed
from the mouth of Sean Hannity again. I couldn't help but say, "Anyone
who starts politicizing real human tragedy is just being a dick."
He completely missed the point, and continued blathering about how
there was plenty of blame to go around -- the mayor, the governor, the
local politicians. My point went right over his head -- I was talking
about HIM being a dick.
I'm happy for the people of New Orleans. You guys have been through
hell. And not just the poor black folks (a fact apparently lost on
this douchebag I was dealing with that day). Even you conservative
Republicans (yes, even the ones who DID get out of New Orleans that
fateful day) who were living in New Orleans at the time Katrina hit,
still lost your homes, your belongings, and in many cases, some of your
loved ones. Natural disasters don't ask for voter registration cards
before doling out suffering.
I've lived in cities when they enjoyed world championship teams.
Kansas City (a long time ago). Dallas. Here in Atlanta (baseball).
I've seen first-hand how it does lift a city up.
Does a city having a world championship team reduce in any way the
suffering, bring back the lost treasures or ressurect lost loved ones?
Well, no. But it does help raise people's spirits. And in a place
like New Orleans, where spirits have been pretty low at times in recent
years, I would think that might be important.
Congrats to the WHO 'DAT nation. Even *I* was a Saints fan on Sunday.
And I'm happy for you guys.
I've now seen everything. I've seen a black guy elected president.
I've seen a black guy dominate golf for over a decade. And I've seen
both the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the New Orleans Saints win the Super
Bowl. Whodathunkit?
Randy
PS -- Dallas did knock you guys from the undefeated ranks. It's a
small consolation for those of us who bleed blue and silver.
R&B
> All we heard was how the Colts did their homework and out prepared the
> opposition. But that interception was pure homework and
> preparation.
That interception was the play of the year.
Randy
BAR
none_of_yo...@all.com says...
[ Big Snipage ]
> Randy
I was going to ask you if your fingers ever get tired of typing your
screeds. But, I can see that when confronted with someone who doesn't
agree with your view of the world it affects you adversely. So, I will
assume that it is better that you type these things out rather than go
"postal."
> PS -- Dallas did knock you guys from the undefeated ranks. It's a
> small consolation for those of us who bleed blue and silver.
I agree with the bleeding blue and silver! What the hell happened in
Minnesota? I almost bought tickets to that game.
MNMikeW
"R&B" <none_of_yo...@all.com> wrote in message
news:2010021017465743658-noneofyourbusiness@allcom...
>
> Like the right wing douchebag he is, this asshole started talking about
> how there would have been less pain if the people of New Orleans had just
> gotten out of town.
>
> "A lot of lives were lost there," I reminded him. "Real life human
> tragedy, you know."
>
> "I know," he said. "And the mayor deserves a lot of the blame."
>
> All I wanted to do was get my sandwich and leave instead of listening to
> all these right wing talking points as if they had freshly spewed from the
> mouth of Sean Hannity again. I couldn't help but say, "Anyone who starts
> politicizing real human tragedy is just being a dick."
>
MNMikeW
"BAR" <sc...@you.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25dd04dbd...@news.giganews.com...
dene
David Laville
>Have a great time David. You guys sure deserve it after all that has
>gone your way.
Thanks! I went to the parade last night and I have never seen crowds
at a parade like this before. They estimate they're were 800,000 to a
million people there. Everyone I have spoken too has said they have
never experienced anything like this in the city of New Orleans
before. It's too bad everyone across this country can't experience
what New Orleans is going through right now.
David Laville
wrote:
>How is the city coming along? What is the stage in the rebuilding process?
>Do you think it will be a better place than before?
New Orleans has been back. All the negativity you hear about the
rebuilding is in small isolated areas that didn't have much to begin
with. It's the same city as before except much of it is newer because
of the rebuilding. People are starting to get irritated every time
they hear talk of Katrina because they say it's in the past and we've
moved on.
They haven't reopened any of the muni courses except for one because
they aren't a priority. However the ones they are talking about
reopening they plan on making upper scale courses.
David Laville
<none_of_yo...@all.com> wrote:
>The day after the Super Bowl, I was in a local restaurant where they
>have sports on the TVs all the time. I got to making small talk with
>one of the workers there, and commented that the New Orleans Saints win
>was good for the city of New Orleans, especially with all they'd been
>through in the last several years since Katrina.
>
>Like the right wing douchebag he is,
How did you know he was right wing, did you ask him?
>this asshole started talking about
>how there would have been less pain if the people of New Orleans had
>just gotten out of town.
>
>"A lot of lives were lost there," I reminded him. "Real life human
>tragedy, you know."
>
>"I know," he said. "And the mayor deserves a lot of the blame."
>
>All I wanted to do was get my sandwich and leave instead of listening
>to all these right wing talking points as if they had freshly spewed
>from the mouth of Sean Hannity again. I couldn't help but say, "Anyone
>who starts politicizing real human tragedy is just being a dick."
Since you're finished telling us all the left wing talking points let
me educate you to the facts. New Orleans has a hurricane evacuation
plan to bus the people out. Our LEFTWING DEMOCRAT Mayor evacuated the
bus drivers along with the keys rendering them useless. Amtrak
offered to send in trains to help evacuate the people. Our LEFTWING
DEMOCRAT Mayor said "no thanks". The President cannot send in help
unless the Governor of a state request it. For 3 days, and it's
documented, our than LEFTWING DEMOCRAT Governor refused the help. It
wasn't until she requested the help did Bush send it in. Bush helped
save the people, he did not leave them stranded like the LEFTWING
DEMOCRATS have been trying to make everyone believe. My house was
flooded because the LEFTWING DEMOCRAT President of my parish evacuated
the pump operators. They knew what would happen and volunteered to
stay but the dumbass LEFTWING DEMOCRAT parish President told them he
would fire them if they stayed.
Impressive isn't it? The same LEFTWING DEMOCRAT politicians that said
"elect us and we'll take care of you" were the very same ones who left
the people stranded and caused flood damage to ten of thousands of
homes that could have easily been avoided. New Orleans is a mecca of
LEFTWING DEMOCRAT government yet in the time of crises that same
LEFTWING DEMOCRAT government folded like a house of cards and you want
us to believe a LEFTWING DEMOCRAT government is the solution.
How can you look at failure after failure after failure of a LEFTWING
DEMOCRAT government and still think they are going to turn your life
into a utopia? Seriously, you can't be living in reality.
dene
That's good to hear. Perhaps N.O. needed this bath. When they open the
golf course up, it will be interesting to hear your comments about the
greens. You made it well known that they previous ones stunk!
-Greg
dene
Good post. It will not make a difference Waaandy's view of the world but
nonetheless, good post.
Wondering if the city has elected RIGHTWING leaders in response to the
obvious LEFTWING failure?
-Greg
Kurgan Gringioni
People who try to blame disaster relief failures on either the right or the
left wing are seriously misguided. It's not an ideological issue.
What is the issue? Answer: no country is ever prepared to handle a disaster
of that magnitude. The infrastructure to accomplish that simply does not
exist anywhere in the world.
Dinosaur_Sr
That type of play has been a staple for the Saints Defense all year.
It's kinda like they lull the other teams offense into a false sense
of security and then hit them with blitzes late in the game, and the
defensive get really aggressive.
MNMikeW
Should have been our parade up here if it wasent for the dang Saints! And
Favre.
MNMikeW
The left has it's own version of reality.
Jack Hollis
<kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>People who try to blame disaster relief failures on either the right or the
>left wing are seriously misguided. It's not an ideological issue.
>
>What is the issue? Answer: no country is ever prepared to handle a disaster
>of that magnitude. The infrastructure to accomplish that simply does not
>exist anywhere in the world.
It was well-known that NO didn't have an adequate evacuation plan. By
the time the NWS told the Mayor to evacuate the city it was already
too late. Of course, if they would have built the levee's high enough
in the first place, an evacuation wouldn't have been necessary.
There was also a plan back in the 1970s to build gates that could have
closed the lake off from the Gulf during storms, but environmentalists
killed that project.
BAR
xsle...@aol.com says...
New Orleans should be abandoned after all buildings and structures have
been razzed. Anyone who continues to build and rebuild in a below sea-
level area is stupid.
bkn...@conramp.net
>New Orleans should be abandoned after all buildings and structures have
>been razzed. Anyone who continues to build and rebuild in a below sea-
>level area is stupid.
I don't think you're stupid David.
Bobby
BAR
bkn...@conramp.net says...
When you stand at the bottom of a levy looking up at the top and know
that a dirt berm is all that is holding back Lake Pontchartrain you have
to wonder about the common sense of people to live in a disaster area.
Also, why do people in California keep building and rebuilding on the
sides of hills where fires and mud slides devour their homes on a
regular basis. A majority of California is a disaster area. The only
reason that it is so bountiful is that they have brought water from else
where to flood arid land to make it farm-able.
I'll tell anyone living in a disaster area they are stupid for
continuing to live there.
R&B
Most Dallas fans who are knowledgable football fans would be quick to
acknowledge that the Cowboys were never better than about the 3rd or
4th best team in the NFC this year. So they played up to their
ability. Which is better than they've done in recent years.
Randy
R&B
Indeed we do.
Randy
R&B
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:46:57 -0500, "R&B"
> <none_of_yo...@all.com> wrote:
>
>> The day after the Super Bowl, I was in a local restaurant where they
>> have sports on the TVs all the time. I got to making small talk with
>> one of the workers there, and commented that the New Orleans Saints win
>> was good for the city of New Orleans, especially with all they'd been
>> through in the last several years since Katrina.
>>
>> Like the right wing douchebag he is,
>
> How did you know he was right wing, did you ask him?
In fact, I did.
It came up in conversation about a year ago, when he acknowledged same.
Like I said before, anyone who trivializes the suffering of others and
instead chooses to make political points is just being a dick.
Thanks for reminding me why I stopped talking to you.
Randy
dene
> Thanks for reminding me why I stopped talking to you.
>
> Randy
Typical liberal tolerance.
-Greg
MNMikeW
MNMikeW
MNMikeW
dumbfuck.
David Laville
>>New Orleans should be abandoned after all buildings and structures have
>>been razzed. Anyone who continues to build and rebuild in a below sea-
>>level area is stupid.
>
>
>I don't think you're stupid David.
Thanks but it wasn't necessary. I've heard this all my life and it
doesn't bother me. We're prone to flooding but no matter where you
live you will always be subject to some form of natural disaster. I
guess anyone who rebuilt in San Francisco after the quake is stupid,
anyone who rebuilt in east Washington state after Mount St. Helens
erupted is stupid, anyone who rebuilds in Tornado Alley after a
tornado is stupid. The list is endless.
David Laville
wrote:
>That's good to hear. Perhaps N.O. needed this bath. When they open the
>golf course up, it will be interesting to hear your comments about the
>greens. You made it well known that they previous ones stunk!
I've got good news, the courses that are open (mostly semi-private)
the greens are in decent shape. Down the street from my girlfriends
house is a course called "Lakewood Country Club". It use to host the
New Orleans PGA Tour event before it moved to English Turn and then
the TPC Fairfield. A month before Katrina hit they closed the course
to rebuild it. Because of the storm it delayed them by about a year.
It reopened last year and I go out there to practice (they have a
membership for just the practice areas). I haven't played the course
yet but I've walked around it and from what I've seen it's probably
one of the better courses in the state. I hope to be joining it
sometime by the end of the year or the beginning of next.
David Laville
wrote:
>Good post. It will not make a difference Waaandy's view of the world but
>nonetheless, good post.
I couldn't believe the blatant hypocrisy in his post. His statement
"Anyone who starts politicizing real human tragedy is just being a
dick" just floored me. It was the left who politicized the human
tragedy of Katrina to slam Bush. Bush couldn't do anything until the
governor requested it yet they blamed Bush for nearly everything and
coming late to the rescue. Randy has every right to his opinion but
let it be one based on fact and not from the left wing spin machine.
>Wondering if the city has elected RIGHTWING leaders in response to the
>obvious LEFTWING failure?
The city of New Orleans still votes heavy for democrats but statewide
it's mostly republican.
David Laville
<none_of_yo...@all.com> wrote:
>Thanks for reminding me why I stopped talking to you.
I'm sorry you feel this way Randy but you were a witness to how a
democratic liberal government abandoned the people during the time of
crisis. You can stop talking to me but it's not going to change the
facts of what happened.
David Laville
wrote:
>It was well-known that NO didn't have an adequate evacuation plan. By
>the time the NWS told the Mayor to evacuate the city it was already
>too late. Of course, if they would have built the levee's high enough
>in the first place, an evacuation wouldn't have been necessary.
Trust me, when a hurricane is heading for New Orleans an evacuation is
always necessary. The levee's may keep the river and lake waters out
but they also keep the rain waters in.
assim...@borg.org
I'm sorry, but you can't just excuse the real failures of local leadership
in this case. Compared to MS, who got the brunt of the storm, the aftermath
was much worse than it had to be. Due in large part to the errors David
cited above.
--
bill-o
Don Kirkman
<MPG.25de4f196...@news.giganews.com>:
>When you stand at the bottom of a levy looking up at the top and know
>that a dirt berm is all that is holding back Lake Pontchartrain you have
>to wonder about the common sense of people to live in a disaster area.
Yep--the Dutch knew better than to live in a place where they'd have
to build dikes if they wanted land to farm..
>Also, why do people in California keep building and rebuilding on the
>sides of hills where fires and mud slides devour their homes on a
>regular basis. A majority of California is a disaster area. The only
>reason that it is so bountiful is that they have brought water from else
>where to flood arid land to make it farm-able.
Sorry, but large parts of California were bountiful long before the
early 20th century water grabs. Most of the foothill areas of the
Sierras, stretching for several hundred miles, was farmed either with
local runoff water or well water, and the land along the coastal
mountains was equally bountiful. The transcontinental railroad was
finished in 1869 and by 1870 California fruit was being sent east.
The first water grab (1908-1913) was the purchase (land grab) of much
of the Owens Valley watershed by the city of Los Angeles, and the
water promoted development of residential areas more than bountiful
farms (though they were included, too, especially in the San Fernando
Valley). The Central Valley Project, begun in 1933, did move vast
amounts of water from the north and eastern parts of the state to the
southern and western parts, which added thousands of acres of new land
under cultivation.
The disasters are regional or local and to some extent avoidable.
--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net
BAR
dlav...@nospam.net says...
I have a stupid cousin in Eastern Washington State.
I have a stupid sister in SF Bay area.
I have a stupid sister in tornado ally.
I have a stupid aunt and uncle in Wilmington, NC.
Kurgan Gringioni
Ya, but building below sea level is in its own category of asking for it. If
the sea level rises more than a foot or two in the next century, that's it.
Kurgan Gringioni
<assim...@borg.org> wrote in message
news:a16dn.71253$RS6....@newsfe15.iad...
>>
>>
>>
>> People who try to blame disaster relief failures on either the right or
>> the
>> left wing are seriously misguided. It's not an ideological issue.
>>
>> What is the issue? Answer: no country is ever prepared to handle a
>> disaster
>> of that magnitude. The infrastructure to accomplish that simply does not
>> exist anywhere in the world.
>
> I'm sorry, but you can't just excuse the real failures of local leadership
> in this case. Compared to MS, who got the brunt of the storm, the
> aftermath
> was much worse than it had to be. Due in large part to the errors David
> cited above.
Sure, but even if they had performed to the best of their ability, the storm
was still going to overwhelm whatever resistance the puny humans were going
to be able to muster.
Mother Nature when she is at her most extreme is simply much more powerful
than we are. People need to accept that fact and not point fingers at the
Democrats or Bush or FEMA or whomever.
assim...@borg.org
On 12-Feb-2010, "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> What is the issue? Answer: no country is ever prepared to handle a
> >> disaster
> >> of that magnitude. The infrastructure to accomplish that simply does
> >> not
> >> exist anywhere in the world.
> >
> > I'm sorry, but you can't just excuse the real failures of local
> > leadership
> > in this case. Compared to MS, who got the brunt of the storm, the
> > aftermath
> > was much worse than it had to be. Due in large part to the errors David
> > cited above.
>
>
>
> Sure, but even if they had performed to the best of their ability, the
> storm
> was still going to overwhelm whatever resistance the puny humans were
> going
> to be able to muster.
>
> Mother Nature when she is at her most extreme is simply much more powerful
>
> than we are. People need to accept that fact and not point fingers at the
> Democrats or Bush or FEMA or whomever.
I agree with that
--
bill-o
MNMikeW
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgrin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hl33ll$6dg$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> Sure, but even if they had performed to the best of their ability, the
> storm was still going to overwhelm whatever resistance the puny humans
> were going to be able to muster.
>
> Mother Nature when she is at her most extreme is simply much more powerful
> than we are. People need to accept that fact and not point fingers at the
> Democrats or Bush or FEMA or whomever.
Carbon
> New Orleans should be abandoned after all buildings and structures
> have been razzed. Anyone who continues to build and rebuild in a below
> sea- level area is stupid.
I may not like some buildings but I would hardly make fun of them.
Carbon
The dikes failed due to human error and incompetence. But blame mother
nature if that fits your narrative better.
Kurgan Gringioni
"Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4b760510$0$4885$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
The damage went far beyond New Orleans. The Mississippi coast got utterly
destroyed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_Hurricane_Katrina_in_Mississippi
Hurricane Katrina's winds and storm surge reached the Mississippi coastline
on the afternoon of August 28, 2005,[1][2] beginning a two-day path of
destruction through central Mississippi; by 10 a.m. CDT on August 29, 2005,
the eye of Katrina began travelling up the entire state, only slowing from
hurricane-force winds at Meridian near 7 p.m. and entering Tennessee as a
tropical storm.[3] Many coastal towns of Mississippi (and Louisiana) had
already been obliterated, in a single night.[4] Hurricane-force winds
reached coastal Mississippi by 2 a.m.[1] and lasted over 17 hours, spawning
11 tornadoes (51 in other states[2]) and a 28-foot (9 m) storm surge[2]
flooding 6-12 miles (10-19 km) inland. Many, unable to evacuate,[5] survived
by climbing to attics or rooftops, or swimming to higher buildings and
trees.
William Clark
Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
I assume that Bertie has explained that to the Dutch?
Dinosaur_Sr
wrote:
> "Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4b760510$0$4885$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:14:52 -0600, MNMikeW wrote:
...and Mississippi had everything back up and running in weeks...and
in a year had pretty much cleaned everything up and were into re
development. N.O. OTOH......
KurganGringioni
"Dinosaur_Sr" <frostb...@att.net> wrote in message
news:6d776081-c835-45f7...@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > The dikes failed due to human error and incompetence. But blame mother
> > nature if that fits your narrative better.
>
> The damage went far beyond New Orleans. The Mississippi coast got utterly
> destroyed.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_Hurricane_Katrina_in_Mississippi
>
> Hurricane Katrina's winds and storm surge reached the Mississippi
> coastline
> on the afternoon of August 28, 2005,[1][2] beginning a two-day path of
> destruction through central Mississippi; by 10 a.m. CDT on August 29,
> 2005,
> the eye of Katrina began travelling up the entire state, only slowing from
> hurricane-force winds at Meridian near 7 p.m. and entering Tennessee as a
> tropical storm.[3] Many coastal towns of Mississippi (and Louisiana) had
> already been obliterated, in a single night.[4] Hurricane-force winds
> reached coastal Mississippi by 2 a.m.[1] and lasted over 17 hours,
> spawning
> 11 tornadoes (51 in other states[2]) and a 28-foot (9 m) storm surge[2]
> flooding 6-12 miles (10-19 km) inland. Many, unable to evacuate,[5]
> survived
> by climbing to attics or rooftops, or swimming to higher buildings and
> trees.
+ ...and Mississippi had everything back up and running in weeks...and
+ in a year had pretty much cleaned everything up and were into re
+ development. N.O. OTOH......
Not only is that not true, it's not even possible. Below are a series of
links graphically illustrating why. The first link is especially good since
it shows a before and after.
http://coastal.er.usgs.gov/hurricanes/katrina/photo-comparisons/images/katrina_gulfport_pair6-lg.jpg
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2007/images/katrina-biloxi-miss-trailers-newsprint-2005.jpg
http://z.about.com/i/ga/0/NYT_katrina_womanrubble-resized.jpg
http://www.wonderexplorebelieve.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/destruction.jpg
http://www.katrinadestruction.com/images/d/13861-4/storm+surge+destruction
Dinosaur_Sr
wrote:
> "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostback2...@att.net> wrote in message
>
> http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2007/images/katrina-biloxi-miss-t...
>
> http://z.about.com/i/ga/0/NYT_katrina_womanrubble-resized.jpg
>
> http://www.wonderexplorebelieve.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/destru...
>
> http://www.katrinadestruction.com/images/d/13861-4/storm+surge+destru...
What's amazing about 6this sort of response is the time you would put
into locating a bunch of meaningless pictures. It would be at least
interesting if there was a glimmer of context.
Fact is, Mississippi was up and running again in a few weeks. Schools
were back. Water and power were back, roads were cleared. It took some
time to say rebuild the causeway and clear debris, but that was done
pretty much within a year or so. Maybe you can find some more pictures
of piles of bricks, but that doesn't change the reality on the ground.
I suppose you are a Waffle House groupie though who laments the loss
of all those Waffle Houses along the coast...pretty much one every
block, and they are all gone...as is all the trashy development along
the beach, and the beach looks a lot nicer not as a result.
How do I know this? I've been there many times since Katrina, and seen
it. My students have lived there and believe it or not, such issues
were a major topic of conversation. I've also been to New Orleans
several times since Katrina, and the differences were and are striking.
MNMikeW
"Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4b760510$0$4885$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
Humans are always incompetent against mother nature. You can always build
bigger and better dikes. There will always be a bigger hurricane to break
them. You keep pretending Carbs.
Dinosaur_Sr
> "Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> news:4b760510$0$4885$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:14:52 -0600, MNMikeW wrote:
> >>news:hl33ll$6dg$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >>> Sure, but even if they had performed to the best of their ability,
> >>> the storm was still going to overwhelm whatever resistance the puny
> >>> humans were going to be able to muster.
>
> >>> Mother Nature when she is at her most extreme is simply much more
> >>> powerful than we are. People need to accept that fact and not point
> >>> fingers at the Democrats or Bush or FEMA or whomever.
>
> >> Spot on Kurgan.
>
> > The dikes failed due to human error and incompetence. But blame mother
> > nature if that fits your narrative better.
>
> Humans are always incompetent against mother nature. You can always build
> bigger and better dikes. There will always be a bigger hurricane to break
> them. You keep pretending Carbs.
They don't get hurricanes in The Netherlands.
assim...@borg.org
On 15-Feb-2010, "MNMikeW" <MNMi...@aol.com> wrote:
> > The dikes failed due to human error and incompetence. But blame mother
> > nature if that fits your narrative better.
>
> Humans are always incompetent against mother nature. You can always build
> bigger and better dikes. There will always be a bigger hurricane to break
> them. You keep pretending Carbs.
History shows again and again
How nature points out the folly of men
--
bill-o
assim...@borg.org
On 15-Feb-2010, Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
> > Humans are always incompetent against mother nature. You can always
> > build
> > bigger and better dikes. There will always be a bigger hurricane to
> > break
> > them. You keep pretending Carbs.
>
> They don't get hurricanes in The Netherlands.
no but there are sub-tropical storms of close to equal power in the region.
The 1953 storm that flooded the Netherlands created a 12-15 sea surge that
overtopped the levees there.
--
bill-o
Dinosaur_Sr
If the original point of bringing up The Netherlands was that somehow
they manage this sort of thing better, and thus living below sea level
is OK in NO, then you have to consider the fact that a 15 foot storm
surge wouldn't do much to NO, even then, whereas the 30' storm surge
of Katrina would have probably done far more damage in The Netherlands
than it did in NO.
I have no problem with people living wherever they want...want to live
in fore prone S. Cal? What's it to me? However, you pay for the
consequences of your lifestyle and I'll pay for mine!
KurganGringioni
> How do I know this? I've been there many times since Katrina, and seen
> it. My students have lived there and believe it or not, such issues
> were a major topic of conversation. I've also been to New Orleans
> several times since Katrina, and the differences were and are striking.
I've had some gigs out in Orlando and Miami (coming from San Diego) which
were in the summer of 2007 and 2008. We have a 24 foot box truck. The
truckers have to be careful about where to fuel up through the gulf coast of
Texas, Louisiana and Mississipi. The reason? A fair number of the stops were
knocked out by the hurricane and have not been rebuilt.
We have another gig in Miami on March 27. I'll report back on whether those
stops have been rebuilt yet. I kinda doubt it. The reason they weren't
rebuilt in the first place is they didn't have hurricane/disaster insurance.
KurganGringioni
>
> How do I know this? I've been there many times since Katrina, and seen
> it. My students have lived there and believe it or not, such issues
> were a major topic of conversation. I've also been to New Orleans
> several times since Katrina, and the differences were and are striking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_Hurricane_Katrina_in_Mississippi
Hancock County was the scene of the final landfall of the eye of Hurricane
Katrina, causing total devastation in Waveland, Bay St. Louis, Pearlington,
and Clermont Harbor, as well as southern Diamondhead. The bridge between Bay
St. Louis and Pass Christian was destroyed.
Katrina's 28-foot (9-m) storm surge, and 55-foot (17 m) sea waves,[13]
practically obliterated Waveland, Mississippi, and state officials said that
it took a harder hit from the wind and water than any other town along the
coast. Katrina came ashore during the high tide of 8:01AM,[34] raising the
storm tide by 2 feet (0.61 m), to over 30 feet (9 m). The storm dragged away
almost every structure within one half mile of the beach, leaving driveways
and walkways that went to nowhere.[33] The death toll was estimated at about
50.
In Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, a foot (30 cm) of water swamped the Emergency
Operations Center at the Hancock County courthouse, which sits 30 feet (9 m)
above sea level.[35] Katrina also destroyed the first floor and dormitories
of Saint Stanislaus All Boys High School.
The destruction brought forth by Katrina also caused about one-quarter of
the labor force to lose their jobs, with the unemployment rate reaching as
high as 24.3%[36]
[edit]Harrison County
Harrison County, Mississippi was hit particularly hard by the hurricane and
the storm surge. Its two largest coastal cities, Biloxi and Gulfport,
suffered severe damages and a number of casualties. By September 1, 126
people were already confirmed dead.[37] Smaller coastal towns were also
severely damaged. Much of Long Beach and most of Pass Christian was leveled.
Nearby Gulfshore Baptist Assembly, a camp owned and operated by the
Mississippi Baptist Convention, has been permanently closed, and
recommendations have been made to build a new facility elsewhere.[38]
In the tourist town of Biloxi, widespread damage was reported as several of
the city's attractions were destroyed. The lower 3 floors of many high-rise
casino-hotels were gutted, as in the former Grand Casino of Gulfport, or the
Imperial Palace (IP Hotel and Casino) or Beau Rivage in Biloxi.[39] Many
restaurants were destroyed and several casino barges had been washed out of
the water and onto land. Residents that survived Hurricane Camille stated
that Katrina was "much worse," with a storm surge reportedly reaching
further inland than the previous catastrophic storm. Katrina's wind
estimates were lighter than Camille's, and the central air pressure was
slightly higher, but Camille was also a much smaller storm so the greater
impact of the storm surge may be due to the size. Keesler Air Force Base,
also located in Biloxi, reported extensive damage to its facilities.
Gulfport authorities reported to news station CNN that up to ten feet of
water covered downtown streets. The Biloxi-Ocean Springs Bridge was also
totally destroyed (see Figure BB), and US 90 had heavy debris and severe
damage to the roadbed.
Thirty of the confirmed deaths in Harrison County were at the St. Charles
apartment complex, said Kelly Jakubic with the county's Emergency Operations
Center.[40] The apartment complex was reported, by local news sources, to
have collapsed with dozens of residents inside. FOX News also reported
deaths at the Quiet Water Beach apartments.[22]
Rebuilding in Harrison County proceeded at different paces in different
towns. The town of Biloxi was greatly helped by the resurgence of the casino
industry, while smaller towns such as Pass Christian did not have an
economic base with which to start the reconstruction effort. By January
2007, almost a year and a half after the Hurricane, Pass Christian had still
not yet begun rebuilding its city buildings, and volunteer labor was still
involved in rebuilding private homes in the town.[41].
Long-term impact
Rebuilding of towns took years, and some areas were not restored. The bay
bridges were rebuilt taller and stronger, as had been done around Pensacola
in the years following Hurricane Ivan (2004). Because all 3 Emergency
Command Centers in the Mississippi coastal counties had been flooded over 30
feet (9 m) above sea level,[3] the rules for command-center elevation were
changed to relocate to even higher ground. The casino-gambling regulations
were changed to allow casinos to be built on land in taller buildings, no
longer forcing the use of massive floating casino barges near a city, which
could again become battering rams along 2nd and 3rd-story levels of nearby
hotels. Celebrities who had previously visited New Orleans came to
understand the massive devastation that occurred along the Gulf Coast
cities. The US Army Corps of Engineers developed plans to rebuilt the
protective barrier islands that had been washed out to sea along the coastal
areas. Detailed reports were written describing how people had survived by
swimming to taller buildings or trees, and noting that those too old or
unable to swim did not survive. Many residents moved away and never
returned. Medical studies attempted to estimate the indirect deaths caused
by people losing their homes or local medical support.
<snip><end>
William Clark
<72997d3c-948c-4eea...@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
You clearly know as much about the North Sea as you do about materials
science, or anything else - nothing.
William Clark
<208c8d5d-0bc6-492b...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
Sonny, the spring tides i the North Sea are more than 15 feet. Go read a
bit.
assim...@borg.org
On 15-Feb-2010, William Clark <wcl...@colnospamumbus.rr.com> wrote:
> > > no but there are sub-tropical storms of close to equal power in the
> > > region.
> > > The 1953 storm that flooded the Netherlands created a 12-15 sea surge
> > > that
> > > overtopped the levees there.
> >
> > If the original point of bringing up The Netherlands was that somehow
> > they manage this sort of thing better, and thus living below sea level
> > is OK in NO, then you have to consider the fact that a 15 foot storm
> > surge wouldn't do much to NO, even then, whereas the 30' storm surge
> > of Katrina would have probably done far more damage in The Netherlands
> > than it did in NO.
> >
> > I have no problem with people living wherever they want...want to live
> > in fore prone S. Cal? What's it to me? However, you pay for the
> > consequences of your lifestyle and I'll pay for mine!
>
> Sonny, the spring tides i the North Sea are more than 15 feet. Go read a
> bit.
The reason the 53 storm did so much damage is that it arrived with one of
said tides.
--
bill-o
Dinosaur_Sr
wrote:
> "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostback2...@att.net> wrote in message
There is a big tank farm in Collins, MS and it supplies the region. It
was up and going again within a week. However, if you drove along the
coast, you had to wait for the causeway to be rebuilt.
Dinosaur_Sr
wrote:
> "Dinosaur_Sr" <frostback2...@att.net> wrote in message
I don't disagree with any of that. They are not going to rebuild a lot
of the communities, especially those that were wiped out. It was
amazing driving down what was once a residential street and seeing
nothing, but it had been cleaned up.
The coast looks a lot better without all those cheapo condos and
tourist traps. Hopefully those will no reappear. They rebuilt the
casinos on land very fast. They only delay on that was waiting for the
legislature to allow it.
NO, OTOH had devastated residential areas that were not cleaned up 2
years later. Maybe not even now, who knows.
Dinosaur_Sr
wrote:
> In article
> <72997d3c-948c-4eea-9137-20799f3ac...@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Easy enogh to look up. The storm surge for Katrina was 30 feet. The
Dutch think a 15 foot storm surge is a big deal. NO wouldn't have even
noticed a 15 foot storm surge
Dinosaur_Sr
Apples and oranges...but then you don't get that difference.....when
the tides come with 120+MPH winds, let me know.
William Clark
<a3b5acb5-ffb8-4c77...@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
Like I said, have you ever been in the North Sea? Clearly, you have not.
William Clark
<0db0d901-ada5-4908...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
Fifteen feet can come on top of 17 foot tides, pal. Get your facts
straight (for once).
Dinosaur_Sr
wrote:
> In article
> <0db0d901-ada5-4908-b26b-8e3e3fef8...@g19g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
You need to get your facts straight. In the North Sea, sustained winds
of 60 - 70 MPH are a big deal. They are routine in the Caribbean. When
Katrina went through Jackson, MS, the sustained winds were 80MPH, and
it lasted for hours. On top of that, gusts of 120 MPH are a big deal
in the North Sea. Again, routine in the Caribbean.
FWIW, there are tidal phenomena in the Caribbean...and finally, when
you had the "monster" 17 foot storm surges in the North Sea, they did
substantial damage.
William Clark
<6859bac9-d96a-44c7...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
Accompanied, as in the 1953 episode, by 100mph+ winds. Get your facts
straight. Do you even have the faintest clue how much water moves
through the North Sea into the English Channel in those Spring tides?
I thought not. Just like your "materials science" - you know nothing.
William Clark
wrote:
Indeed, but Dino can't seem to work out that 15ft tide plus 15 foot
storm surge = 30ft rise in water level.
assim...@borg.org
On 17-Feb-2010, William Clark <cl...@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> > The reason the 53 storm did so much damage is that it arrived with one
> > of
> > said tides.
>
> Indeed, but Dino can't seem to work out that 15ft tide plus 15 foot
> storm surge = 30ft rise in water level.
I don't agree with you on much, but the North Sea is by far a more dangerous
place to be on a regular basis than the Gulf of Mexico.
--
bill-o
JayD...@webtv.net
William Clark
Yes, anyone who has crossed the English Channel in a Nor' Easter on a
full tide can tell you that. It can be vicious.