My Last Post on George Hibbard
Eric Strulowitz
few of you out there that express some degree of cynicsm about my
motives for being so critical of this individual.. For the last time,
i will be crystal clear about this, especially for those of you that
remain skeptical, such as the Greg Schoenberg and a few others. This
is going to be a long one, so you might want to get a coke or beer,
put your feet up, and relax. Let me say on the onset that everything
i say will be 100% true, i would swear in a court of law, swear in a
church or synagogue before God, or even swear on the lives of my loved
ones...i do not take this litely, so know in advance where i am coming
from...no bullshit here although we are bound to get plenty back from
George if he decides to respond.
I came to this forum as a lurker who had stumbled upon the group and
was absolutely amazed at the fighting that was going on between
Hibbard and the others. It was at a time where i decided that i was
going to really make a concerted effort to learn how to play this
game. With all the attention on GH, i contacted Amazon.com and
ordered his tape and book. This was one of the first instructonal
guides i had ever seen, and while being a quite wordly person, was
profoundly ignorant about golf instruction. The material did in fact
help me. It added some structure to where there was none. It gave
some drills and checkpoints that gave me something to focus on. At
the time, i was shooting 115-130 and scores of 10+ on holes was
common.
I began a dialogue with George complimenting his materials and tossed
around some dates regarding attending his "academy". We agreed on a
date. And George made me an offer, no pressure mind you, but a very
specific offer. He told me that someone had talked ill of him on
Amazon and asked if i would give a postive review of his material to
"balance out things". In addition, he told me about the "sociopaths"
and "gang mentality" in RSG and asked if i would also post a postive
review here. George said that for doing him this favor, he would be
very appreciative and would offer me a discount of $100 to attend his
academy. This message was conveyed by e-mail. My wife saw it also
and she can verify that it exists.. It would have never occurred to
me to post a reivew in Amazon without George putting the idea in my
head. I figured "what the hell" and posted a postive reivew in Amazon
and RSG. Why not? The guy was being nice to me, i didn't know this
group or its members from Adam, and i was all so new to this whole
internet thing i just went along with it and i of course benefitted
from it.
When i attended the academy , it did help. George is a decent
teacher, but NOT in my opinion for an advanced golfer. He will take a
total lack of structure like i had and give you some good positions
and checkpoints. He will help you understand the swing and dynamics
of ball flight better. But you know what, so can any decent
instructor. I am paying my club pro $25/hour and he does this same
thing and a whole lot better...and the guy can play!!! But not knowing
better, i gave George a whole lot more credit than i should of because
i had no frame of reference. And it helped my ego. No longer was i
playing like someone with cerebral palsy, there was now some hope and
a basis to improve.
Now George is very charming and can talk like no one i have ever met.
He is very charasmatic and makes you believe that his way is the
ultimate. And after a few hours of listening to this dialogue and
hearing why the rest of the golf instruction establishment is so
wrong, you begin to believe it. The first hint i got that something
was off with this guy was when i saw his swing. I was really
expecting something here. I was shocked. When he addressed the ball
he danced around and it looked like he was constipated and hadn't
moved his bowels in over 2 weeks. Now I am a Registered nurse for
many years as is my wife Mary. This guy looked like he needed an
enema and if i had one available he would have gotten it. I would
have done anything to relieve his apparent suffering. anyway, then he
dances off his back foot and goes to the front foot and i think i am
at a square dance exhibition. You know what this guy looked like.
Have you ever watched the Animal Channel and seen an ostrich in heat
and the way it dances around. That's how Georgie looked when swinging
the club...like a damn ostrich that hadn't been laid in over a month.
Anyway, i figured what the hell and wathced his swing. Picture
perfect, no way. Quite a lot of fades and a few fats. We practiced
hitting balls for a few hours and we broke for lunch. George told me
about how he felt about many of the RSG members. To me, they were
jsut names at the time and i didn't really know any of them. He told
me about what a rude individual David Laville was when he visited
George. He referred to Mike Dalecki specifically as a "sociopath" and
warned me about trusting Randy Brown. Not knowing these individuals
from Adam, it did not sound like they were very nice people. Again,
my wife heard this and if any of you want to verify this with her, you
may as you see her in the future. she is very free willed and not my
parrot..she will speak it as it is and 100% truthful..
On my last day of lessons, George said that he would appreciate it
very much if we would give a postive review of his program and we
agreed and in fact posted later in RSG. Many of you called me a troll
and spammer and a variety of other names and we had a bit of a
protracted flame war. All during this time, George cheered me on via
e-mail, telling me about what a wise man i was, how i was superior to
all the rest of you, a better person, etc.
I think it was in February of this year that i decided that this guy
might be a trouble maker and full of shit, so i contacted Randy Brown
who is practically a neighbor on the other side of Atlanta and we
agreed to lunch and golf. I was nervous as hell, because i had been
led to believe this guy was some kind of monster. Well, it was just
the opposite and my friendship with this fine fellow began. We had a
good lunch and was in fact a very relaxing get together. Randy
played well below his normal game and i just plain sucked, but i was
glad to break the ice with him and left very much convinced this was a
quite diffrent person than i had been led to believe.
One thing Randy and i discussed on that date was inviting George to
Atl-RSG. I agrred to call George. He was quite indignant about the
invite and said he had no free time and was afraid of being "set up"
and the source of ridicule. I assured George that this was not the
case and was a chance for all of us to put all the BS behind, but he
didn't sound like he cared less. He was on my speaker phone when we
talked, and my wife got the impression that i had bothered him and he
couldn't of cared less about the message i was delivering.
In the spring of this year, I deicided to take a trip to Biloxi and
New Orleans as a birthday present for my wife and i figured this was
an opportunity to meet David Laville. At the time, we had had some
rather heated discussions and if i could have put my hands through the
computer screen, i may have punched him in the face. The way George
spoke about David at the academy and in a few future communications ,
i got the impression the guy was a real low life and charlatan. As i
gave Randy a fair shake, i gave David one and i met David for a round
of golf and found him to be an absolute gem. He was tired as could
be, having just completed a west coast trip, but he was enthusiastic
and ready to play. I liked him from the very start and do very much
to this day. . What i found was a "regular" guy who loves the game,
loves to talk, and works his butt off in his chosen profession of
manufacturing teeth for dentists. I did not see the sinister David
that George portrayed in RSG and in my communications with him. I was
really starting to believe this guy was wrong and had given me skewed
representations of individulals to make himself and I look as victims.
When it came time to commit to Atlanta RSG, i looked forward to the
opportuinity of meeting many of you. And again, i thought it was a
great opportunity to achieve some degree of detente in our "community"
and invited George again to come. I volunteered to put up $100 for
his costs, as did Laville, Bobby Knight, and a few others. It was a
very sincere attempt for us to put hard feelings aside, get to know
each other better, amd just have a good time. George again was very
indignant about this offer. However, he came up with an idea that he
could use ATL-Rsg as a vehicle to have a clinic and volunteered to
come if we would pay him and set aside the monday after for a Perfect
Impact workshop. To me, this was a very selfish and egotitstical act
and he had not even consulted with Randy on this. George was
interested in RSG-ATL becoming about him, rather than Randy and the
rest of us. A lot of folks pounced on George for this and rightfully
so...it showed his selfish, egotistical, self indulgant nature. I
think it was this action by George, more than any other, that really
turned me off to him and showed his true nature
In the next few months, with the weather getting good, i had the
chance to meet many of you and my love affair with RSG and its members
truly began. Never had i met such a delightful, sincere, and fun
loving group. And many of you will agree, we have had some good
times. We talked a bit about George casually and Randy asked me one
day to "come clean" about George. I told Randy that i did have the
goods on George regarding inducements to post postive reviews, but i
was afraid about the embarasssment it would cause him and i knew damn
well that i would get pounced by some of you, and well deserved, for
not being more forthcoming.. But Randy urged me to reconsider, given
the importance of the truth coming out. And given the friendships i
had developed in this group, i felt i owed you the truth . It was a
cathartic experience for me as i clearly did something that was wrong,
not the crime of the century mind you, but i promoted George's
products and George as an individual even though i was not sincere
about it. I misrepresented him not only out of a false sense of
obligation, but out of pity. The guy is pathetic, believe me and
being a caring person , i had a soft spot for him. but nevertheless,
that doesn't excuse my actions and the repeated false and inflated
representations i made of him as a golfer, instructor, and a person..
now there have been a few of you that believe i "spiled the beans" on
George to get "in" with RSG. Nothing further from the truth. I have
a great family, a successful career, many friends and acquaintaces,
and make a whole lot of money...i am not bragging and those of you
that know me know that i am not a braggert and a very down to earth
low key individual, but this is the truth. I do not come to this
group for validation, as i am sure the same pertains to many of you.
This forum is a source of entertainemnt for me, a stress reliever as i
juggle a full time hospital job and a small consulting firm, and a way
to network and meet some great people. If you don't accept me or
don't like me, that is fine...life goes on and i am not the worse for
it. The same apllies to all of you i hope...if it doesn't , something
is very wrong. So please, Greg Schoenberg, George, and others, I
have "come out" concerning George not for acceptance, but a need to
clense myself of wrongs i have done and out of a love for this group
and admiration and respect for many of you who i have met personally.
To put any other motive on my actions is being very mean spirited and
is a real stretch and is used to fulfill your own selfish,
contemptable motives.
What we have here is a markateer who couldn't care less about you as a
person. He beleives his methods are superior and belittles those that
do not possess his "superior" knowledge. He has referred to this
forum as "the enemy" He has mocked many of you for your swings and
scores in previous RSG events, Yet, he will not show us his swing or
tell us his scores and will make no honest attempt to meet any of us
"in the flesh". He has thrown his nose up at our attempts of
generosity to him (ie ATL-RSG) . He has used profanity to many of you.
He has invoked religeous themes to enhance his credibility. Need we
say more.
There is an absence of outrage in this society. We take charlatans
for granted, as we see them on TV, magazines, and internet daily. We
are lied to by our government, our priests are molesting our children,
and corporate scandals have made us all wonder if there is any
integrity left in the business world. I cannot fix the big
picture...it is too big and the problems too complex. But i can make
an impact in my neighborhood, in my household, among my family, and in
a virtual community as this. George Hibblard does not display traits
that i would define as admirable and he mirrors the worst, rather than
the best, virtues of our world. He is an opportunist and does a great
job when attacked of playing the victim, distorting the facts, or
attacking the messenger, rather than accepting the message. I have
yet to see any remorseful behavior, just counter accusations and
rationalizations. George reminds me very much of the Arthur Anderson
and Enron execuives on TV during the congressional hearings...they act
like they know nothing and put the blame on everyone else and portray
themselves as the "wronged"
I do not want someone elses dog pooping on my lawn and neither do i
want the likes of George Hibbard pooping on our community of RSG. If
you ignore him, some say, he will go away. If a doctor said you had
cancer, would you apply this logic. Of course not. This is why i
have been vocal about this individual. He is a parasite and if we
continue to speak up maybe he will simply leave or just maybe, JUST
MAYBE, a light may go on in his head and maybe a decent. kinder side,
free of opportunism and venom, may emerge., although i am not certain
if this side exists.
George, I do not hate you and neither does anyone here. I do not wish
you anything but the best of health and fortune for you and your
family. But every indiginity you have suffered and will experience in
the future on this forum and probably in life is most likely well
deserved and is a direct result of your personality and the way you
communicate and treat people.
i feel sorry for you... i mean truly sorry. As someone in the
business of taking care of people and some very sick ones at that, i
see someone here with a lot of pain, suffering, and anger inside. You
are someone very detached from the mainsteam and cannot relate to
people in a normal, decent way I question if you ever really derive
any enjoment from life as your behavior does not correlate with
someone who is happy or fulfilled. Someone in the 18th hole of life
as you will be leaving a very sorry legacy behind and the way you
treat folks here is probably a good barometer of how your interactions
in the world have been throughout the years. I hope you have a
conscience and some deceny in side of you that allows you to make
amends for your actions before your time comes.
George, this will be my last post about you concerning my reasons and
motives for speaking out against you . Of course i reserve the right
to respond to any nonsense you retort with regarding this posting.
Maybe, others here will be as open and as forthcoming as i have. I
will leave you alone from now on, because i have pity for you. You
are a very sad and tragic figure. However, poop on the RSG lawn and
i will surely be back, you can count on it.
Eric
Greg Schoenberg
The best thing about this post is the title. I sure hope it's true.
<old news snipped>
> now there have been a few of you that believe i "spiled the beans" on
> George to get "in" with RSG. Nothing further from the truth. I have
> a great family, a successful career, many friends and acquaintaces,
> and make a whole lot of money...i am not bragging and those of you
> that know me know that i am not a braggert and a very down to earth
> low key individual, but this is the truth. I do not come to this
> group for validation, as i am sure the same pertains to many of you.
> This forum is a source of entertainemnt for me, a stress reliever as i
> juggle a full time hospital job and a small consulting firm, and a way
> to network and meet some great people. If you don't accept me or
> don't like me, that is fine...life goes on and i am not the worse for
> it. The same apllies to all of you i hope...if it doesn't , something
> is very wrong. So please, Greg Schoenberg, George, and others, I
> have "come out" concerning George not for acceptance, but a need to
> clense myself of wrongs i have done and out of a love for this group
> and admiration and respect for many of you who i have met personally.
> To put any other motive on my actions is being very mean spirited and
> is a real stretch and is used to fulfill your own selfish,
> contemptable motives.
I thought you cleansed yourself a few months back. So the the true motive
for your unprovoked, snarky comments toward George is????????
> What we have here is a markateer who couldn't care less about you as a
> person. He beleives his methods are superior and belittles those that
> do not possess his "superior" knowledge. He has referred to this
> forum as "the enemy" He has mocked many of you for your swings and
> scores in previous RSG events, Yet, he will not show us his swing or
> tell us his scores and will make no honest attempt to meet any of us
> "in the flesh". He has thrown his nose up at our attempts of
> generosity to him (ie ATL-RSG) . He has used profanity to many of you.
> He has invoked religeous themes to enhance his credibility. Need we
> say more.
He bought you a fish dinner.....
;>
Really....if I was George, I'd sure feel loved by your oft repeated words of
contempt. Sure hope you never wish the "best of health and fortune" for me
and my family.
>But every indiginity you have suffered and will experience in
> the future on this forum and probably in life is most likely well
> deserved and is a direct result of your personality and the way you
> communicate and treat people.
Trusting the wrong people creates problems too.
> i feel sorry for you... i mean truly sorry. As someone in the
> business of taking care of people and some very sick ones at that, i
> see someone here with a lot of pain, suffering, and anger inside. You
> are someone very detached from the mainsteam and cannot relate to
> people in a normal, decent way I question if you ever really derive
> any enjoment from life as your behavior does not correlate with
> someone who is happy or fulfilled. Someone in the 18th hole of life
> as you will be leaving a very sorry legacy behind and the way you
> treat folks here is probably a good barometer of how your interactions
> in the world have been throughout the years. I hope you have a
> conscience and some deceny in side of you that allows you to make
> amends for your actions before your time comes.
Is he wackier than most from Florida?
> George, this will be my last post about you concerning my reasons and
> motives for speaking out against you .
I sure hope this is true.
Eric Strulowitz
>
>Really....if I was George, I'd sure feel loved by your oft repeated words of
>contempt. Sure hope you never wish the "best of health and fortune" for me
>and my family.
>
>>
Greg,
you are just being a wise ass here. Just because we have
disagreements among this group doesn't mean we wish them harm,
sickness, or economic misfortune..
You say you hope that i'd never wish the best of health and fortune
for you and your family. Probably one of the most imbecilic comments
i have read on this forum . Would you rather i wished you and your
loved ones poor health and economic hardship. I work on a cancer unit
in a large city hospital and see more suffering in a day than you
will see in three lifetimes. I don't wish suffering or poor health
on anyone and i don't find any humor in your pathetic attempt at
sarcasm..
in some ways, you are just as much an instigator and trouble maker as
George. you portray yourself as some type of enlightened peacemaker
who wants equity, fairness, and a thorough examination of all the
facts. The truth is you are wolf in sheeps clothing . You are just
are a little bit classier than George in your presentation, but a pot
stirrer all the same I've got you number.
Eric
Eric Strulowitz
>He bought you a fish dinner.....
>
>;>
>
And another thing, O Enlightened One who seeks truth, justice, and the
American Way. . George did not buy me a fish dinner. I think he will
be happy to verify this fact. Where the hell did you get this idea.
Are you confusing me with someone else.
Before you make staements as this, please do your homework.
thank you
Eric,
Mike Dalecki
>
> The best thing about this post is the title. I sure hope it's true.
You know, Greg, I just can't figure out what your motivation in all this
is. The facts about GH are not in doubt. Why you continue to try to
rehabilitate the hardened marketeer is beyond me. His very long record
indicates he's not interested in doing anything other than what's best
for him.
Why do you not have more sympathy for the larger community that is RSG
than you do for one individual who has shown, time and again, that he
places his own welfare ahead of the group's welfare?
How many more Hibbard spam episodes will it take? I doubt you're simply
a slow learner--what else is going on here?
Your actions would sacrifice the many for the one. And the one isn't
worth it, not by several orders of magnitude.
<Eric said:>
> > George, I do not hate you and neither does anyone here. I do not wish
> > you anything but the best of health and fortune for you and your
> > family.
>
> Really....if I was George, I'd sure feel loved by your oft repeated words of
> contempt. Sure hope you never wish the "best of health and fortune" for me
> and my family.
You're missing the point. Why on earth you continue to defend this GH
character in the face of all he's done is beyond me.
> >But every indiginity you have suffered and will experience in
> > the future on this forum and probably in life is most likely well
> > deserved and is a direct result of your personality and the way you
> > communicate and treat people.
>
> Trusting the wrong people creates problems too.
There you go. As well, expecting a weasel to change its spots is
something that creates problems as well.
Why on earth you defend GH is lost on me. RSG was great here for the
last month or so with minimal contributions by GH. Now it's the crap
again, and GH is fully and completely to blame for that.
Unless you think RSG is great like this, I don't see why on earth you
continue to encourage the crap GH does. Because make no mistake, Greg,
that's what you do.
He's the problem, Greg; Period. Always has been.
Mike
PS: Why not, if you're going to inject yourself in here at all, spend
your time encouraging GH to turn the other cheek to his perceived
slights? Wouldn't that also fit your philosophy?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dalecki I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
GCA Accredited Clubmaker. Web Site: http://www.dalecki.net/clubdoctor/
RSG-Wisconsin 2002 Report/Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2002/part1.html
RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim
------------------------------------------------------------------------
JeffC
"Greg Schoenberg" <de...@cnnw.net> wrote in message
news:P5s19.169265$_51.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
>
> Sure hope you never wish the "best of health and fortune" for me
> and my family.
For God's sake Greg, lighten up. We can flame away all we want, but no one
is wishing bad things in real life to anyone, let alone their families fer
chrissake.
I'm sure there are people here who dislike me, and there have been a couple
I disliked, but it's the internet man, get some damn perspective. I was on
vacation during 9/11, and was not posting my usual 100 posts a day. People
were actually doing web searches to find out what other newsgroups I might
have frequented, and asked people over there if they knew I was alright.
I've never met any of you, but I know how this Usenet thing works. No one
is wishing anyone harm. This is a good group of real people. Let's take
the flaming for what it is, and nothing more, OK?
Greg Schoenberg
was pointing out the contradiction, the hypocrisy of Eric's statement.
First he initiates unprovoked, personal attacks toward, then he comes up
with this phony "I wish you best of health and fortune for your family."
-Greg
"JeffC" <jcon...@nc.rr.take.out.com> wrote in message
news:R0x19.35042$Qn5.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Lefty
GaryG
news:3d46245e...@news1.news.adelphia.net:
> George, this will be my last post about you concerning my
> reasons and motives for speaking out against you . Of
> course i reserve the right to respond to any nonsense you
> retort with regarding this posting. Maybe, others here
> will be as open and as forthcoming as i have. I will leave
> you alone from now on, because i have pity for you. You
> are a very sad and tragic figure. However, poop on the RSG
> lawn and i will surely be back, you can count on it.
>
>
> Eric
>
Eric, I don't understand what your ajenda could be with posts
like this:-(
JeffC
> Jeff....where does it state that I wish ill health on Eric or anybody? I
> was pointing out the contradiction, the hypocrisy of Eric's statement.
> First he initiates unprovoked, personal attacks toward, then he comes up
> with this phony "I wish you best of health and fortune for your family."
Did you read a single word I wrote?
Greg Schoenberg
given your history with him, to see any other color.
Here is how I see it.....
1. When Eric revealed GH conned him into spamming, I jumped all over
George. I was thoroughly disgusted by his action and his non-action after
he was caught. He should have apologized, but he didn't.
2. GH did crawl away for a couple of months, as did his detractors.....no
potshots were lobbed toward him, thus all was peaceful in RSG.
3. Randy asks GH to review his swing....GH did so appropriately, along with
a couple of others. GH didn't do anything wrong, nor did Randy in asking
him.
4. Then Eric lobs several unprovoked, personal potshots toward George, and
the fun begins. I don't believe he has any business doing that. It causes
nothing but problems in RSG, so I called him on it, same as I would you if
you resorted to such behavior.
5. If GH resorts to spamming or initiating personal attacks, I will jump on
him for it too. But....he's entitled to defend himself.
I have a challenge for you Mike or anybody else. Show me a thread,
especially a recent thread, where George *initiated* a personal attack.
Finally, I believe I want the same thing you want for RSG. Participants
offer discussion about golf.....disagreements focus on the issue, not
personal matters, and all display total intolerance for spam and trolling.
If George and Eric can fit within these perameters, then I'm cool.
-Greg
"Mike Dalecki" <mi...@dalecki.net> wrote in message
news:3D469048...@dalecki.net...
Eric Strulowitz
wrote:
>Jeff....where does it state that I wish ill health on Eric or anybody? I
>was pointing out the contradiction, the hypocrisy of Eric's statement.
>First he initiates unprovoked, personal attacks toward, then he comes up
>with this phony "I wish you best of health and fortune for your family."
>
>-Greg
>
>
Greg,
now how do you KNOW that i was phony in wishing GH good health and
fortune. You are really reaching here. Can you read my mind? Do
you possess pyschic powers that we don't know about? holy mackeral
man, you are cooked!!
I am 100% sincere when i say i wish GH good health and fortune. Why
would i wish him anything but that. Does he deserve bad health and
fortune just because of a disagreement, flame war, or whatever you
call this?
Good God Greg, you get more irrational and off the wall by the minute.
You may want to check your insurance coverage..are you having a
breakdown or some kind of crisis?. There are people out there who
can help!
good luck!!
Eric
Dave Holo
> last month or so with minimal contributions by GH. Now it's the crap
> again, and GH is fully and completely to blame for that.
I see it slightly differently, Mike. I hope that when I speak up about the
way GH gets blasted here - in threads that go into the hundreds of posts -
that I'm not seen as defending GH, so much as defending the right of anyone
to post, regardless of whether or not they meet with committee approval.
<RANT ON!>
As you say above, it was great here for the last month or so. Part of that
was the minimal participation by GH. I don't read many of GH's posts, but
for the most part he must have been in bounds, because there wasn't much
traffic from or about him.
So what started all the crap this time? In my view, a GH post wasn't the
seminal event. Randy specifically asked George to comment on the swing video
of RSG-ATL participants. My immediate reaction to seeing Randy's post was
"Damn!! Well, here we go again."
It was inevitable that George would comment - in the manner that George
comments. It was inevitable that someone would say he was full of crap. It
was inevitable that he would defend himself - the way he defends himself. It
was inevitable that someone else would dredge up the past. It was inevitable
that he would dispute history.
Jesus H. Christ!! This is usenet. We cannot make people leave. We cannot put
them on death row. We cannot punish them. When we find people objectionable,
we can only ignore them or respond to them in a manner which provides
feedback that allows them to understand the manner in which we are willing
to deal with them. Sometimes the latter requires time and patience. Telling
George he's wrong doesn't seem to be what provokes the vulgar tirades.
Telling him he's stupid or dishonest guarantees it. Does anyone here not
understand that? What, then, is the point of waking George up, slapping him,
and insulting him? Did ANYONE not see this coming? Randy, did you not know
what your simple question would start? Eric, did you not know that
voluntarily goring GH's ox one more time would add to the bloodbath? JeffC,
did you not know that telling newbies they are not entitled to an opinion is
not the same as suggesting they get informed before they take sides in a
long running feud? Mike, I tend to agree with your position in your running
battle with GH, but that doesn't make you appear less stubborn. David, can't
you ever just say "George, you are wrong because .... " Do you always have
to take a shot? Brad, your attempts are laudable, but you're never going to
convince GH of anything.
Face it guys. GH's responses are quite predictable. He has a need to always
be the last word. He cannot accept that sometimes people have to agree to
disagree. I don't have any of his stuff. I don't want any of his stuff. I've
read enough of his posts to know his methods are not for me. I despise the
manner in which he entered this newsgroup. I hate commercial posts.
Arrogance and condescension leave me cold. But, I'd not seen much of any of
that from GH recently. Even if he hadn't shed some of those more
objectionable trappings of his former presence, at least they weren't
conspicuously on display.
The "old George" was asleep. He was very quietly behaving himself. That's
the most we can ask of anyone here: to behave themselves. That's it. That's
all we've got. For the last month or more, GH's presence was minimal. It was
very easy to participate in this newsgroup without having it "All George,
all the time." Then ..... you guys woke him up, drug him out of bed, and
started bitch-slapping him. Then you say, "See, he always gets nasty." What
the hell did you expect, exactly?
For nearly 4 years, I've loved participating in the group. I check in
several times a day. Unless I'm on the road, RSG is a part of my daily
routine. But, guys, I've got to tell you this: the value of RSG as a
pleasant past time in no way hinges on the presence or absence of GH.
Resorting to "objectionable behavior" to rid ourselves of those who behave
objectionably just diminishes the value of the group.
OK .... I've had my say. I'm done now. This was my last response to this
thread, and truly my last post about GH. I haven't yet decided whether I
will continue to read this thread to EOL, but my email works.
Shields up!
--------------------------
Dave
Just say no: to spam, trolls, and crossposting.
About RSG: see the FAQ at http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html
Tired of SPAM? http://www.spamcop.net
Kenny Stultz
says...
>
<snip>
>
>5. If GH resorts to spamming or initiating personal attacks, I will jump on
>him for it too. But....he's entitled to defend himself.
>
>-Greg
>
OK, Greg, check GH's response to me on 7/28 in the "Golf Instruction in
Atlanta Airport" thread where he gave three links to testimonial SPAM and get
to work jumping on him.
Kenny
--
Kenny Stultz
RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk
Troll and SPAM intolerant
JeffC
>
> I have a challenge for you Mike or anybody else. Show me a thread,
> especially a recent thread, where George *initiated* a personal attack.
Do you not understand that the recent hullaballoo (or one of them) was started
when someone posted a message defending GH?
JeffC
"Dave Holo" <dave...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ai6i8q$11a9ol$1...@ID-74211.news.dfncis.de...
> JeffC, did you not know that telling newbies they are not entitled to an
opinion is
> not the same as suggesting they get informed before they take sides in a
> long running feud?
I thought I said the latter.
Anyway, I can't think of any way to stop all this. Even if it can be agreed
upon for all of us who know GH's history to completely refrain from responding
in any way, ever, to any of his swing theory posts, eventually he's going to
say or do something that can't be tolerated by someone. Then what?
Greg Schoenberg
"JeffC" <sp...@not.com> wrote in message
news:3d46e048$0$27162$4c41...@reader0.ash.ops.us.uu.net...
Eric Strulowitz
>
>Eric, I don't understand what your ajenda could be with posts
>like this:-(
>
Hey Gary !,
If i had to sum up what my agenda would be in one phrase it would be
"buyer beware". I will give some specifics on this and would invite
GH to comment on each one in a very rational, non-argumentative
manner.
1. You cannot learn a perfect swing or play golf in 5 or 10 minutes.
This is a difficult game with many facets. To delude one into
thinking this, is not honest marketing practice. I tried George's
approach to the game and practiced, practiced, practiced everything he
taught. My wife did the same. We are still not par golfers. George
will say this is because we didn't follow his advise. This is not to
say that his advise was necessarily bad, but it does not deliever the
goods There are some inherent flaws in his teaching IMHO, specially
as it regards to his grip. David Laville, explained this to a group
of us and gave a demonstration. He could explain more specifically
the problems with George's grip than i can, but for me it didn't
work.. What other reputable teacher, such a Mcleanr, Leadbetter,
Evershed, Smith, Haney, etc makes such claims as George's marketing
materials They state that they will help you improve, but do not
promise a given score within a given time frame. to give a naive
buyer such false hope is not a good way to promote a product and this
forum has been used to promote his products.
2. George purports that his book has "secrets". In fact, there is a
lot of material in his book that is just a rehash of what others have
stated. Some examples:
a. Baseball drill- One of the first drills George reviews and really
pushes it. what is new about this? how many times have we read about
or seen the baseball drill?
b. Coonection-george believes that the lead shoulder and chest is a
primary motor of the swing and you should keep you lead arm on your
chest and just let it go for the ride. Sounds like Jimmy Ballard
stuff to me. No great secret. There are a lot of instructors out
there that would rather see you be unconnected for a freer swing.
c. Vertical drop of the clubhead on downswing--_george tells us that
we should drop our arms before we turn the shoulders. Craig Shankland
if i'm not mistaken really stresses this and it is a very important
part of Mark Evershed's teachings...refer to his book "The Canadian
Move".
d. Gravity- this is just a restating of David Lee's work. nothing
original here on Georg' part.
We could go on and on, Is the material George teaches all bad? Not
at all..a lot of it is good stuff but nothing truly provocative or
ground breaking.
4. As a businessperson, i question George's ethics. You do not
promote your product, while saying that everyone else has failed to
deliever. You do not go on a public forum and embarass your audience
concerning their swings and scores. You do not engage in profanity,
bible thumping, and encourage shills to do your dirty work.
Regardless of what you may or may not think of the golf gurus we see
on TV and read about in the various golf magazines, they are true
polished gentlemen and would never engage in this kind of behavior.
I run a small consulting firm that provides flu shots in the fall to
approx 12 clients and i also do corporate health fairs where we do
cancer screenings, diabetes screenings, BP checks, lipid profiles,
etc. I do not promote my services on any medical related newsgroup or
web site. I would never think of saying anything negative about my
competition. And i don't pretend to possess some speical skills or
knowledge. What i do stress is service and professionalism and as a
result, i get repeat business every year and a very nice income to
supplement my primary job. I would never get on the internet and
argue with anyone about my services, as everyone out there is a
perspective client and why would i want to incite such chaos anyway.
There is a right and wrong way to conduct yourself in the business
world. George has every right to conduct his business as he sees fit.
He can advertise whatever he wants. but we do not have to accept his
marketing claims or condone his business practices. We owe it to help
maintain a certain integrity in this forum and to prevent newcomers
from making a decision based on falsehood and emotionalism, rather
than reality.
So Gary , that is my agenda. I do not hate George, i don't think any
of us do. but he does need a wakeup call...he is everything but a
dummy (at least i hope), and by behaving in a morally responsible
ethical manner he better serves this forum and his potential
customers. George, please heed some of this advise..it is not all
that far fetched.
eric
Greg Schoenberg
David.....outstanding post. I truly believe you nailed the situation.
-Greg
Greg Schoenberg
"Kenny Stultz" <stu...@wai.com> wrote in message
news:ai6n0i$vkmmt$1...@ID-88061.news.dfncis.de...
> In article <eHz19.222565$uw.1...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net>,
de...@cnnw.net
> says...
> >
> <snip>
> >
> >5. If GH resorts to spamming or initiating personal attacks, I will jump
on
> >him for it too. But....he's entitled to defend himself.
> >
> <snip>
>
> >-Greg
> >
>
> OK, Greg, check GH's response to me on 7/28 in the "Golf Instruction in
> Atlanta Airport" thread where he gave three links to testimonial SPAM and
get
> to work jumping on him.
>
> Kenny
>
Kenny, I believe the follow is what you are referring to...
"If you wish to judge my competence, use the evidence already available to
you.
I am a teacher. I do what I teach. And I have posted 500 testimonials on
my site as to how effective I am in
"commenting on the swings of others."
Your comment is disingenuous in the extreme!
How do you dare make such an irresponsible post when you know full well --
or could know full well - how my teachings, book and video precisely about
"the swings of others" have revolutionized the game for thousands of
golfers.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that your REAL question is, "how
do we know you are competent to judge the swings of others?" I will make it
easy for you and other readers.
Click here. http://www.don't goperfectimpact.com/Test1.html
http://www.don't goperfectimpact.com/Latest%
http://www.disabled perfectimpact.com/More%20tests.htm
George Hibbard"
I think this is borderline. It was in the context of defending himself, and
my point is, GH shouldn't have to defend himself each time he posts. (Read
Dave Holo's post...he states this better than anyone).
I recall being in a similar situation when I first joined RSG back in Oct.,
2001. David Laville accused me of being F. I used a link to my health
insurance web page to prove I was from Oregon, not England. Was that
spamming?
I will concede that GH is not wise to use this tactic to defend himself, but
I see a difference between that and starting a thread, entitled "click here
for the world's best golf instuction."
-Greg
JeffC
a) stop top posting
b) GREG! Are you paying attention? See "About George Hibbard"
"Greg Schoenberg" <de...@cnnw.net> wrote in message
news:RxB19.703249$352.151566@sccrnsc02...
glfnaz
What George did was initiate a thread where he globally criticised the golf
swings of RSG ATL folks.
His pompus attidude about the players lacking in the knowledge or ability to
make good swings was his way to raise himdself above others, put himself in the
saviour's throne, and give folks a subtle spam.
He could have as I did, recognize the fine golf swings of John P, John R, D
Laville, and the scoring achievements of Pitts and John R. Instead he took his
usual route of using RSG for his own self serving actions.
If he was asked by Randy for a review of Randy's swing, fine---but could he
really have nothing good to say about a few of the others?! I mean John and
John have a lot of really *great* things going on in their swings, as does David
and others. There was *a lot* of positive stuff that we could learn from in
those videos.
Instead he was negative.
( Personally I'd love to see George do his dance)
Brad
Greg Schoenberg
"George, I do not hate you and neither does anyone here. I do not wish
you anything but the best of health and fortune for you and your
family"
to these words.......
"When he addressed the ball
he danced around and it looked like he was constipated and hadn't
moved his bowels in over 2 weeks. Now I am a Registered nurse for
many years as is my wife Mary. This guy looked like he needed an
enema and if i had one available he would have gotten it. I would
have done anything to relieve his apparent suffering. anyway, then he
dances off his back foot and goes to the front foot and i think i am
at a square dance exhibition. You know what this guy looked like.
Have you ever watched the Animal Channel and seen an ostrich in heat
and the way it dances around. That's how Georgie looked when swinging
the club...like a damn ostrich that hadn't been laid in over a month."
and these words....(Atlanta Airport thread, where Eric took his first
personal, unprovoked potshots)
"Beware of these type of instructors. And beware of anyone out there
that makes a claim such as finding a perfect swing in five minutes.
Such individuals are looking to do nothing more than exploit the
innocence of a lot of golfers out there, that really want to play
better and will try almost anything regarless of cost or time
investment to get there. George, it took me a long time to rid myself of the
cancer you put in
me
and....
."You and your like should be ashamed of yourselves and are no
better than those TV evangelists that promise an eternity in heaven
just by calling a toll free number and making a small contribution.
There are so many suckers out there. And I was one of them."
Each of these comments were unprovoked, initiated by Eric. None were given
in response to GH, yet he wishes him good health.
Am I the only one to question Eric's words? I doubt it.
There is one more thing. Eric has used some pretty choice words in his
defensive diatribes to me. I ask questions, he refuses to answer, except by
making snarky comments about my mental health. I have yet to lob a personal
potshot toward him, although I'm not above doing so.
Knowing what I know, I seriously doubt if Eric would have the nerve to say
these things to my face. Instead, I'd get to hear for the umpteenth time
about his work with cancer victims, and perhaps be invited to play golf at
this country club with Mary and him.
Bleah!
-Greg
"Eric Strulowitz" <mae...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3d46d510...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Harlan Davis
by attacking George for no other reasons than to ingratiate himself with
others in the group and make George look worse than he already does.
What other reason could he have for bringing up his point-by-point
voyage to "born again" status? I have heard his story several times now,
and it stinks. At least I know where George is coming from; he's trying
to protect a reputation and business that isn't all that great to begin
with. The weasel is simply trying to make sure that George is destroyed,
and, yet, he continues to wish him good health. If you can't see through
all this bullshit, I feel sorry for you.
I'd trust George before I'd trust the weasel. The guy has one or more
screws loose, and if anyone is changing the emphasis of this news group,
you know who it is. At least George contributes to the golf discussion
and the spamming is at an absolute minimum. You can agree with him or
not; I don't think it bothers him one iota. What has the weasel
contributed other than whining about George and his own "pure"
intentions? Doesn't anyone else sense that something just isn't right?
Those who don't agree with George or don't like him or the way he
explains things don't have to use the "plonk threat". If you are so weak
that you can't pass up his (or anyone else's) posts, you need to learn
self control.
I'm going to hit some balls.
Harlan
glfnaz
Dave Holo wrote:
(good post snipped)
Dave--he had nothing good to say about anyone's swing.
He said they were lacking in knowledge and form.
He said he could be their saviour.
In my contrarian view I saw some really good things in several of those videos.
I'd rather focus on John P's smoothness, John R's position at the top, and D
Laville's athletic form and balance.
There was some good stuff there.
Instead george simply said they were all lacking in substance.
Sad contribution.
Brad
JeffC
>
> Am I the only one to question Eric's words? I doubt it.
Yes, you are. No one here wishes anyone physical harm. Just knock it off
Greg. You're really trying to stir up trouble for no good reason. If you
can't tell the difference between newsgroup flaming and actually wishing
someone harm, you don't belong here.
Perfect Impact
de...@cnnw.net
> says...
> >
> <snip>
> >
> >5. If GH resorts to spamming or initiating personal attacks, I will jump
on
> >him for it too. But....he's entitled to defend himself.
> >
> <snip>
>
> >-Greg
> >
>
> OK, Greg, check GH's response to me on 7/28 in the "Golf Instruction in
> Atlanta Airport" thread where he gave three links to testimonial SPAM and
get
> to work jumping on him.
>
> Kenny
>
You, Kenny, YOU called for my credentials. I offered them. It was not
spam. It was an answer to your own challenge.
George
banjo bob
> The best thing about this post is the title. I sure hope it's true.
>
Here's a NIT. Pick it.
Perfect Impact
"glfnaz" <glf...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:3D46EBB9...@qwest.net...
> Greg
>
> What George did was initiate a thread where he globally criticised the
golf
> swings of RSG ATL folks.
> His pompus attidude about the players lacking in the knowledge or ability
to
> make good swings was his way to raise himdself above others, put himself
in the
> saviour's throne, and give folks a subtle spam.
You stretch. I commented on three swings and looked at only about four.
Not the whole lot. Takes far too much time to download. Nor did I pan any
of them, except Eric's obvious failure to continue with what I taught him --
where he was slamming me.
You skew the language of my post on this subject. I gave recognition of
virtue in the swings I saw.
> He could have as I did, recognize the fine golf swings of John P
didn't see
, John R,
I commented on its excellence
D
> Laville,
didn't see
and the scoring achievements of Pitts and John R.
didn't see.
My comments about ability to discern good swing principles was based on
months of comments by so many in RSG that I have rarely found the kind of
acumen here about "good swing" that gave rise to a generalization. I also
made it clear that it did not include all of RSG. I stated that many with
acumen didn't post often.
Please be accurate in your broadsides, Brad.
> Instead he took his
> usual route of using RSG for his own self serving actions.
>
> If he was asked by Randy for a review of Randy's swing, fine---but could
he
> really have nothing good to say about a few of the others?! I mean John
and
> John have a lot of really *great* things going on in their swings, as does
David
> and others. There was *a lot* of positive stuff that we could learn from
in
> those videos.
> Instead he was negative.
Not at all. Post the negatives, in their entirety. Exclude Eric for
obvious reasons.
This is a challenge. Put up.
George
Eric Strulowitz
>Knowing what I know, I seriously doubt if Eric would have the nerve to say
>these things to my face. Instead, I'd get to hear for the umpteenth time
>about his work with cancer victims, and perhaps be invited to play golf at
>this country club with Mary and him.
>
Greg,
First off, you are very wrong in your assumption that i would not say
to your face what i would say on-line. i don't look for trouble but i
have never backed off from anyone in my life. You are a wimp and
wimps don't worry me. You have deserved everything thrown back to
you because of your sarcasm. You are not interested in reconciliation
here...you are interested in just stirring the pot further to add some
excitement to what must be a very unfullfilling existence. .
the only reason i brought up about work with cancer victims is that i
am a caring person and have devoted my life to taking care of the
sick. for you to say that i wish someone suffering is very hurtful to
me as i not only work with sick people, but volunteer my time in a
hospice helping the dying and their families cope. At least when i
go to bed at night i know i have impacted someone's life in a postive
manner. you are in the insurance business. Talk about a bunch of
criminals. I am not saying you are, but this industry is a drain on
our economy and has been less than reputable. I could not work such a
job and i am thankful that i save lives, instead of taking peoples
money and enriching a bunch of overpaid executives with jet planes,
condos, and golden parachutes. For you to say that i was not sincere
in wishing GH continued health and fortune was ridiculous. I know
suffering and would hope that we all stay well and free of pain.
And yes, i inivted you to play golf at my country club. You
ungrateful slob, why would you bring up that. Many RSG'er have been
guests at my club and i have played as a guest at some of theirs. My
invitation to you was very sincere and those RSG'ers that have been to
my club have had a great time out. I get a lot of pleasure showing
people a good time and those that know me will vouch for it. i am
very generous with my time and money. Life is too short not to be. I
live my life with one rule...give 90% and expect 10% back. To take a
sincere gesture and mock it, shows a total lack of class on your part.
eric
Eric Strulowitz
wrote:
>Eric is a simpleton and a weasel who is apparently here to stir up muck
>by attacking George for no other reasons than to ingratiate himself with
>others in the group and make George look worse than he already does.
>
Another asshole that claims clairvoyance and thinks he can get into
the minds of others and understand their intentions and motivations.
you my friend are a friggin shmuck.
Eric
Greg Schoenberg
> O
> >Knowing what I know, I seriously doubt if Eric would have the nerve to
say
> >these things to my face. Instead, I'd get to hear for the umpteenth time
> >about his work with cancer victims, and perhaps be invited to play golf
at
> >this country club with Mary and him.
> >
>
> Greg,
>
> First off, you are very wrong in your assumption that i would not say
> to your face what i would say on-line. i don't look for trouble but i
> have never backed off from anyone in my life. You are a wimp and
> wimps don't worry me.
I've seen pictures of you, Eric. Your appearance corresponds to your
behavior here in RSG. If you had the nerve to call me a "wimp" to my face,
it would be the last thing you would remember for a few hours.
You have deserved everything thrown back to
> you because of your sarcasm. You are not interested in reconciliation
I am definitely not interested in being your friend. That much is true.
> here...you are interested in just stirring the pot further to add some
> excitement to what must be a very unfullfilling existence. .
>
> the only reason i brought up about work with cancer victims is that i
For the umpteenth time, ad nauseum.
> am a caring person and have devoted my life to taking care of the
> sick. for you to say that i wish someone suffering is very hurtful to
> me as i not only work with sick people, but volunteer my time in a
> hospice helping the dying and their families cope. At least when i
> go to bed at night i know i have impacted someone's life in a postive
> manner. you are in the insurance business. Talk about a bunch of
> criminals. I am not saying you are, but this industry is a drain on
> our economy and has been less than reputable.
Health insurance claims pays your nurse's salary.
I could not work such a
> job and i am thankful that i save lives, instead of taking peoples
> money and enriching a bunch of overpaid executives with jet planes,
> condos, and golden parachutes.
And what of the health care providers who ripped off Medicare and health
insurance companies for years?
For you to say that i was not sincere
> in wishing GH continued health and fortune was ridiculous. I know
> suffering and would hope that we all stay well and free of pain.
>
> And yes, i inivted you to play golf at my country club. You
> ungrateful slob, why would you bring up that.
Another insult. Actually, I'm quite dapper in my choice of clothing.
Many RSG'er have been
> guests at my club and i have played as a guest at some of theirs. My
> invitation to you was very sincere and those RSG'ers that have been to
> my club have had a great time out. I get a lot of pleasure showing
> people a good time and those that know me will vouch for it. i am
> very generous with my time and money. Life is too short not to be. I
> live my life with one rule...give 90% and expect 10% back. To take a
> sincere gesture and mock it, shows a total lack of class on your part.
>
I'm privvy to their feedback. Eric, you are not going to win this war of
words with me. Why don't you slink back into Mary's arms and let her
comfort you.
-Greg
>
> eric
Eric Strulowitz
>
>I've seen pictures of you, Eric. Your appearance corresponds to your
>behavior here in RSG. If you had the nerve to call me a "wimp" to my face,
>it would be the last thing you would remember for a few hours.
>
you are a wimp. For someone who was a pastor, your behavior is not
very pious. Who was your teacher... Reverend Sung Yung Moon?
is this a threat of physical harm.? you don't scare me with you
threats. I GUARANTEE you a hospital bed in the Intensive Care Unit if
you ever raised a hand to me. You will be shitting through a tube
and drooling from your mouth for the rest of your life and that is a
promise.
>And what of the health care providers who ripped off Medicare and health
>insurance companies for years?
>
>
I have nothing to do with that. i provide services and have nothing
to do with billing or the financial aspects of the business..
>
>
Why don't you slink back into Mary's arms and let her
>comfort you.
>
now why are you bringing my wife into this. did i mention yours or
bring her into the discussion. very tasteless and again shows a
total lack of class.
>-
>
>>
Eric
>
Greg Schoenberg
> very pious. Who was your teacher... Reverend Sung Yung Moon?
I'm not pious.....I point to the one who is.
Harlan Davis
A schmuck perhaps, but I am not your friend.
Harlan
Bobby Knight
Someone...... please say it, and mean it.
___
\o '
|
/ \
.
"Someone likes every shot"
bk
--------------------------------------------
Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge.
Ignore them and they'll go away.
Eric Strulowitz
wrote:
>Weasel:
>
>A schmuck perhaps, but I am not your friend.
you are damn right you are not my friend. and you are damn right that
you are a shmuck...at least you have that much insight.
now get the hell of my back and i'll get off yours
eric
Eric Strulowitz
wrote:
>There are more last posts here than Michael Jordan and Naomi Judd retirements combined.
>Someone...... please say it, and mean it.
> ___
i think Greg gave the final shot when he said i was "pious". After
all the diarrhea pouring out of his mouth, i was hoping for something
a bit more climatic as he said he would have the last word..
Eric
Greg Schoenberg
> Why don't you slink back into Mary's arms and let her
> >comfort you.
> >
> now why are you bringing my wife into this. did i mention yours or
> bring her into the discussion. very tasteless and again shows a
> total lack of class.
> >-
> >
> >>
> Eric
> >
Interesting.....you call me a wimp, a slob, state I have mental health
issues, and then you cry foul when I bring your wife into this.
You can hand it out, but brother....you sure can't take it.
Time to quit, Erica. You're outgunned.
-Greg
Eric Strulowitz
>> >
>
>Interesting.....you call me a wimp, a slob, state I have mental health
>issues, and then you cry foul when I bring your wife into this.
>
>You can hand it out, but brother....you sure can't take it.
>
>Time to quit, Erica. You're outgunned.
>
>-Greg
>
>
I guarantee you wimp boy, my skin is three times tougher than yours
will ever be. As you brought this on yourself, i am actually
enjoying every minute of this and i am sure our fellow RSG'ers are
having a blast reading it. But..... Our families are not FAIR GAME
for discussion. that is a foul and i am sure that every RSG'er here
would agree
And don't play lay the poor victum here. Poor little Greg was called
some names and he is making doo-doo in his pants. You provoked me .
i did not provoke you and anyone who reviews this record will clearly
see this.
now go clean your ass, the stench has crossed the Rocky Mountains
and reached Georgia
Eric
Harlan Davis
Harlan
Dave Holo wrote:
> "Mike Dalecki" <mi...@dalecki.net> wrote in message
> news:3D469048...@dalecki.net...
> > Why on earth you defend GH is lost on me. RSG was great here for the
> > last month or so with minimal contributions by GH. Now it's the crap
> > again, and GH is fully and completely to blame for that.
>
> I see it slightly differently, Mike. I hope that when I speak up about the
> way GH gets blasted here - in threads that go into the hundreds of posts -
> that I'm not seen as defending GH, so much as defending the right of anyone
> to post, regardless of whether or not they meet with committee approval.
>
> <RANT ON!>
>
> As you say above, it was great here for the last month or so. Part of that
> was the minimal participation by GH. I don't read many of GH's posts, but
> for the most part he must have been in bounds, because there wasn't much
> traffic from or about him.
>
> So what started all the crap this time? In my view, a GH post wasn't the
> seminal event. Randy specifically asked George to comment on the swing video
> of RSG-ATL participants. My immediate reaction to seeing Randy's post was
> "Damn!! Well, here we go again."
>
> It was inevitable that George would comment - in the manner that George
> comments. It was inevitable that someone would say he was full of crap. It
> was inevitable that he would defend himself - the way he defends himself. It
> was inevitable that someone else would dredge up the past. It was inevitable
> that he would dispute history.
>
> Jesus H. Christ!! This is usenet. We cannot make people leave. We cannot put
> them on death row. We cannot punish them. When we find people objectionable,
> we can only ignore them or respond to them in a manner which provides
> feedback that allows them to understand the manner in which we are willing
> to deal with them. Sometimes the latter requires time and patience. Telling
> George he's wrong doesn't seem to be what provokes the vulgar tirades.
> Telling him he's stupid or dishonest guarantees it. Does anyone here not
> understand that? What, then, is the point of waking George up, slapping him,
> and insulting him? Did ANYONE not see this coming? Randy, did you not know
> what your simple question would start? Eric, did you not know that
> voluntarily goring GH's ox one more time would add to the bloodbath? JeffC,
> did you not know that telling newbies they are not entitled to an opinion is
> not the same as suggesting they get informed before they take sides in a
> long running feud? Mike, I tend to agree with your position in your running
> battle with GH, but that doesn't make you appear less stubborn. David, can't
> you ever just say "George, you are wrong because .... " Do you always have
> to take a shot? Brad, your attempts are laudable, but you're never going to
> convince GH of anything.
>
> Face it guys. GH's responses are quite predictable. He has a need to always
> be the last word. He cannot accept that sometimes people have to agree to
> disagree. I don't have any of his stuff. I don't want any of his stuff. I've
> read enough of his posts to know his methods are not for me. I despise the
> manner in which he entered this newsgroup. I hate commercial posts.
> Arrogance and condescension leave me cold. But, I'd not seen much of any of
> that from GH recently. Even if he hadn't shed some of those more
> objectionable trappings of his former presence, at least they weren't
> conspicuously on display.
>
> The "old George" was asleep. He was very quietly behaving himself. That's
> the most we can ask of anyone here: to behave themselves. That's it. That's
> all we've got. For the last month or more, GH's presence was minimal. It was
> very easy to participate in this newsgroup without having it "All George,
> all the time." Then ..... you guys woke him up, drug him out of bed, and
> started bitch-slapping him. Then you say, "See, he always gets nasty." What
> the hell did you expect, exactly?
>
> For nearly 4 years, I've loved participating in the group. I check in
> several times a day. Unless I'm on the road, RSG is a part of my daily
> routine. But, guys, I've got to tell you this: the value of RSG as a
> pleasant past time in no way hinges on the presence or absence of GH.
> Resorting to "objectionable behavior" to rid ourselves of those who behave
> objectionably just diminishes the value of the group.
>
> OK .... I've had my say. I'm done now. This was my last response to this
> thread, and truly my last post about GH. I haven't yet decided whether I
> will continue to read this thread to EOL, but my email works.
>
> Shields up!
> --------------------------
> Dave
>
> Just say no: to spam, trolls, and crossposting.
> About RSG: see the FAQ at http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html
> Tired of SPAM? http://www.spamcop.net
Harlan Davis
I'm happy to see that someone else sees through all of his crap. I can't believe
others don't sense the same thing.
Harlan
Harlan Davis
Geez, do you have a comment on everything?
Harlan
Harlan Davis
Harlan
Eric Strulowitz
wrote:
> Greg:
>
>I'm happy to see that someone else sees through all of his crap. I can't believe
>others don't sense the same thing.
>
>Harlan
>
>
>Harlan,
You are nothing more than an apologist for the behavior of Greg. His
behavior has been less than appropriate. you see fit to put it all on
me in spite of his sarcastic and predatory postings.
Sorry Harlan, but you are a schmuck indeed
eric
Harlan Davis
Amazing! How old are you?
Harlan
Eric Strulowitz wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 16:50:05 GMT, GaryG <nos...@nospamcorp.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Eric, I don't understand what your ajenda could be with posts
> >like this:-(
> >
> Hey Gary !,
>
> If i had to sum up what my agenda would be in one phrase it would be
> "buyer beware". I will give some specifics on this and would invite
> GH to comment on each one in a very rational, non-argumentative
> manner.
>
> 1. You cannot learn a perfect swing or play golf in 5 or 10 minutes.
> This is a difficult game with many facets. To delude one into
> thinking this, is not honest marketing practice. I tried George's
> approach to the game and practiced, practiced, practiced everything he
> taught. My wife did the same. We are still not par golfers. George
> will say this is because we didn't follow his advise. This is not to
> say that his advise was necessarily bad, but it does not deliever the
> goods There are some inherent flaws in his teaching IMHO, specially
> as it regards to his grip. David Laville, explained this to a group
> of us and gave a demonstration. He could explain more specifically
> the problems with George's grip than i can, but for me it didn't
> work.. What other reputable teacher, such a Mcleanr, Leadbetter,
> Evershed, Smith, Haney, etc makes such claims as George's marketing
> materials They state that they will help you improve, but do not
> promise a given score within a given time frame. to give a naive
> buyer such false hope is not a good way to promote a product and this
> forum has been used to promote his products.
>
> 2. George purports that his book has "secrets". In fact, there is a
> lot of material in his book that is just a rehash of what others have
> stated. Some examples:
>
> a. Baseball drill- One of the first drills George reviews and really
> pushes it. what is new about this? how many times have we read about
> or seen the baseball drill?
>
> b. Coonection-george believes that the lead shoulder and chest is a
> primary motor of the swing and you should keep you lead arm on your
> chest and just let it go for the ride. Sounds like Jimmy Ballard
> stuff to me. No great secret. There are a lot of instructors out
> there that would rather see you be unconnected for a freer swing.
>
> c. Vertical drop of the clubhead on downswing--_george tells us that
> we should drop our arms before we turn the shoulders. Craig Shankland
> if i'm not mistaken really stresses this and it is a very important
> part of Mark Evershed's teachings...refer to his book "The Canadian
> Move".
>
> d. Gravity- this is just a restating of David Lee's work. nothing
> original here on Georg' part.
>
> We could go on and on, Is the material George teaches all bad? Not
> at all..a lot of it is good stuff but nothing truly provocative or
> ground breaking.
>
> 4. As a businessperson, i question George's ethics. You do not
> promote your product, while saying that everyone else has failed to
> deliever. You do not go on a public forum and embarass your audience
> concerning their swings and scores. You do not engage in profanity,
> bible thumping, and encourage shills to do your dirty work.
> Regardless of what you may or may not think of the golf gurus we see
> on TV and read about in the various golf magazines, they are true
> polished gentlemen and would never engage in this kind of behavior.
>
> I run a small consulting firm that provides flu shots in the fall to
> approx 12 clients and i also do corporate health fairs where we do
> cancer screenings, diabetes screenings, BP checks, lipid profiles,
> etc. I do not promote my services on any medical related newsgroup or
> web site. I would never think of saying anything negative about my
> competition. And i don't pretend to possess some speical skills or
> knowledge. What i do stress is service and professionalism and as a
> result, i get repeat business every year and a very nice income to
> supplement my primary job. I would never get on the internet and
> argue with anyone about my services, as everyone out there is a
> perspective client and why would i want to incite such chaos anyway.
> There is a right and wrong way to conduct yourself in the business
> world. George has every right to conduct his business as he sees fit.
> He can advertise whatever he wants. but we do not have to accept his
> marketing claims or condone his business practices. We owe it to help
> maintain a certain integrity in this forum and to prevent newcomers
> from making a decision based on falsehood and emotionalism, rather
> than reality.
>
> So Gary , that is my agenda. I do not hate George, i don't think any
> of us do. but he does need a wakeup call...he is everything but a
> dummy (at least i hope), and by behaving in a morally responsible
> ethical manner he better serves this forum and his potential
> customers. George, please heed some of this advise..it is not all
> that far fetched.
>
> eric
dp
"Bobby Knight" <bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
news:f20ekuojnmfa34ck5...@4ax.com...
> There are more last posts here than Michael Jordan and Naomi Judd
retirements combined.
> Someone...... please say it, and mean it.
This is my first AND last post on George Hibbard. Whoever that is.
Eric Strulowitz
wrote:
>So, you really believed you could learn a perfect swing in five minutes.
>Amazing! How old are you?
>
>Harlan
>
>
Of course not Shmuck i didn't believe it, but it shouldn't be
advertised as such. i was just making a point.
Eric
Felicity
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 20:40:00 GMT, "Greg Schoenberg" <de...@cnnw.net> w
> >
> >I've seen pictures of you, Eric. Your appearance corresponds to your
> >behavior here in RSG. If you had the nerve to call me a "wimp" to my
face,
> >it would be the last thing you would remember for a few hours.
> >
> I would have no reservation calling you a wimp to your face because
> you are a wimp. For someone who was a pastor, your behavior is not
> very pious. Who was your teacher... Reverend Sung Yung Moon?
> is this a threat of physical harm.? you don't scare me with you
> threats. I GUARANTEE you a hospital bed in the Intensive Care Unit if
> you ever raised a hand to me. You will be shitting through a tube
> and drooling from your mouth for the rest of your life and that is a
> promise.
Tonight I have dipped in to this silly forum, after one of my fellow Brits
gave me a nudge, to find you, Eric, once again presenting yourself,
repeatedly, in this way.
You do yourself no favours, I assure you.
Stick to nursing, your family and enjoying your golf - that's my advice. I
suspect there's quite a nice guy under there somewhere, but you most
certainly come across as a child in this forum. And you should never expect
anyone here to trust you, as you quite evidently couldn't trust yourself.
Whatever...I sincerely wish you and yours, all the very best, whatever you
decide, ,,and I mean that.
F.
JeffC
"Harlan Davis" <hda...@ntsource.com> wrote in message
news:3D4709C5...@ntsource.com...
> That isn't flaming. Its closer to psychotic rambling.
>
> Geez, do you have a comment on everything?
I thought you were going to hit balls?
Greg Schoenberg
could have played golf with Eric and Mary, had fish dinner at their country
club, and discussed cancer victims, how golf is for the racially pure and
upwardly mobile, and of course, the evils of Hibbardism.
No fish for you!
;>
-Greg
"Harlan Davis" <hda...@ntsource.com> wrote in message
news:3D470A9B...@ntsource.com...
Eric Strulowitz
wrote:
>O Harlan, you truly are a schmuck. Had you not seen the light, you too
>could have played golf with Eric and Mary, had fish dinner at their country
>club, and discussed cancer victims, how golf is for the racially pure and
>upwardly mobile, and of course, the evils of Hibbardism.
>
>No fish for you!
>
>;>
>
thank you for validating that Halran is a shmuck..his behavior has
justified that.
I don't think i will invite Harlan to my club. But there is a nine
hole goat track not too far away with a bunch of rednecks always
aviailable for a game. I am sure you and he both would feel right at
home. . Be happy to set up a time and then dinner at Waffle House,
or would you feel out of place there...perhaps a bit too dressy?
Eric
PS just continue to poke fun at cancer victims. That is real nice
behavior from someone who once served as a pastor...real
Christianlike. Maybe one day you or one of your loved ones will have
to endure cancer, the treatments, and a slow painful death...and maybe
it won't be so funny then and you will eat your words.. If you are
going to poke fun, don't due it at the expense of those who are not as
fortunate as us to enjoy good health. What's next, you insensitive
prick, poking fun at rape victims or molested children.?
zponge
So what if he hasn't a good swing that doesn't mean that he can't teach; I
know of a lot of good golfers who haven't a clue how to teach so I'm sure
that the opposite may be true.
Did his teaching help you? If so why get involved with the mud slinging; you
didn't have to listen.
"Eric Strulowitz" <mae...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3d46245e...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> While most of us are in agreement about George Hibbard, there are a
> few of you out there that express some degree of cynicsm about my
> motives for being so critical of this individual.. For the last time,
> i will be crystal clear about this, especially for those of you that
> remain skeptical, such as the Greg Schoenberg and a few others. This
> is going to be a long one, so you might want to get a coke or beer,
> put your feet up, and relax. Let me say on the onset that everything
> i say will be 100% true, i would swear in a court of law, swear in a
> church or synagogue before God, or even swear on the lives of my loved
> ones...i do not take this litely, so know in advance where i am coming
> from...no bullshit here although we are bound to get plenty back from
> George if he decides to respond.
>
> I came to this forum as a lurker who had stumbled upon the group and
> was absolutely amazed at the fighting that was going on between
> Hibbard and the others. It was at a time where i decided that i was
> going to really make a concerted effort to learn how to play this
> game. With all the attention on GH, i contacted Amazon.com and
> ordered his tape and book. This was one of the first instructonal
> guides i had ever seen, and while being a quite wordly person, was
> profoundly ignorant about golf instruction. The material did in fact
> help me. It added some structure to where there was none. It gave
> some drills and checkpoints that gave me something to focus on. At
> the time, i was shooting 115-130 and scores of 10+ on holes was
> common.
>
> I began a dialogue with George complimenting his materials and tossed
> around some dates regarding attending his "academy". We agreed on a
> date. And George made me an offer, no pressure mind you, but a very
> specific offer. He told me that someone had talked ill of him on
> Amazon and asked if i would give a postive review of his material to
> "balance out things". In addition, he told me about the "sociopaths"
> and "gang mentality" in RSG and asked if i would also post a postive
> review here. George said that for doing him this favor, he would be
> very appreciative and would offer me a discount of $100 to attend his
> academy. This message was conveyed by e-mail. My wife saw it also
> and she can verify that it exists.. It would have never occurred to
> me to post a reivew in Amazon without George putting the idea in my
> head. I figured "what the hell" and posted a postive reivew in Amazon
> and RSG. Why not? The guy was being nice to me, i didn't know this
> group or its members from Adam, and i was all so new to this whole
> internet thing i just went along with it and i of course benefitted
> from it.
>
> When i attended the academy , it did help. George is a decent
> teacher, but NOT in my opinion for an advanced golfer. He will take a
> total lack of structure like i had and give you some good positions
> and checkpoints. He will help you understand the swing and dynamics
> of ball flight better. But you know what, so can any decent
> instructor. I am paying my club pro $25/hour and he does this same
> thing and a whole lot better...and the guy can play!!! But not knowing
> better, i gave George a whole lot more credit than i should of because
> i had no frame of reference. And it helped my ego. No longer was i
> playing like someone with cerebral palsy, there was now some hope and
> a basis to improve.
>
> Now George is very charming and can talk like no one i have ever met.
> He is very charasmatic and makes you believe that his way is the
> ultimate. And after a few hours of listening to this dialogue and
> hearing why the rest of the golf instruction establishment is so
> wrong, you begin to believe it. The first hint i got that something
> was off with this guy was when i saw his swing. I was really
> expecting something here. I was shocked. When he addressed the ball
> he danced around and it looked like he was constipated and hadn't
> moved his bowels in over 2 weeks. Now I am a Registered nurse for
> many years as is my wife Mary. This guy looked like he needed an
> enema and if i had one available he would have gotten it. I would
> have done anything to relieve his apparent suffering. anyway, then he
> dances off his back foot and goes to the front foot and i think i am
> at a square dance exhibition. You know what this guy looked like.
> Have you ever watched the Animal Channel and seen an ostrich in heat
> and the way it dances around. That's how Georgie looked when swinging
> the club...like a damn ostrich that hadn't been laid in over a month.
>
> Anyway, i figured what the hell and wathced his swing. Picture
> perfect, no way. Quite a lot of fades and a few fats. We practiced
> hitting balls for a few hours and we broke for lunch. George told me
> about how he felt about many of the RSG members. To me, they were
> jsut names at the time and i didn't really know any of them. He told
> me about what a rude individual David Laville was when he visited
> George. He referred to Mike Dalecki specifically as a "sociopath" and
> warned me about trusting Randy Brown. Not knowing these individuals
> from Adam, it did not sound like they were very nice people. Again,
> my wife heard this and if any of you want to verify this with her, you
> may as you see her in the future. she is very free willed and not my
> parrot..she will speak it as it is and 100% truthful..
>
> On my last day of lessons, George said that he would appreciate it
> very much if we would give a postive review of his program and we
> agreed and in fact posted later in RSG. Many of you called me a troll
> and spammer and a variety of other names and we had a bit of a
> protracted flame war. All during this time, George cheered me on via
> e-mail, telling me about what a wise man i was, how i was superior to
> all the rest of you, a better person, etc.
>
> I think it was in February of this year that i decided that this guy
> might be a trouble maker and full of shit, so i contacted Randy Brown
> who is practically a neighbor on the other side of Atlanta and we
> agreed to lunch and golf. I was nervous as hell, because i had been
> led to believe this guy was some kind of monster. Well, it was just
> the opposite and my friendship with this fine fellow began. We had a
> good lunch and was in fact a very relaxing get together. Randy
> played well below his normal game and i just plain sucked, but i was
> glad to break the ice with him and left very much convinced this was a
> quite diffrent person than i had been led to believe.
>
> One thing Randy and i discussed on that date was inviting George to
> Atl-RSG. I agrred to call George. He was quite indignant about the
> invite and said he had no free time and was afraid of being "set up"
> and the source of ridicule. I assured George that this was not the
> case and was a chance for all of us to put all the BS behind, but he
> didn't sound like he cared less. He was on my speaker phone when we
> talked, and my wife got the impression that i had bothered him and he
> couldn't of cared less about the message i was delivering.
>
> In the spring of this year, I deicided to take a trip to Biloxi and
> New Orleans as a birthday present for my wife and i figured this was
> an opportunity to meet David Laville. At the time, we had had some
> rather heated discussions and if i could have put my hands through the
> computer screen, i may have punched him in the face. The way George
> spoke about David at the academy and in a few future communications ,
> i got the impression the guy was a real low life and charlatan. As i
> gave Randy a fair shake, i gave David one and i met David for a round
> of golf and found him to be an absolute gem. He was tired as could
> be, having just completed a west coast trip, but he was enthusiastic
> and ready to play. I liked him from the very start and do very much
> to this day. . What i found was a "regular" guy who loves the game,
> loves to talk, and works his butt off in his chosen profession of
> manufacturing teeth for dentists. I did not see the sinister David
> that George portrayed in RSG and in my communications with him. I was
> really starting to believe this guy was wrong and had given me skewed
> representations of individulals to make himself and I look as victims.
>
> When it came time to commit to Atlanta RSG, i looked forward to the
> opportuinity of meeting many of you. And again, i thought it was a
> great opportunity to achieve some degree of detente in our "community"
> and invited George again to come. I volunteered to put up $100 for
> his costs, as did Laville, Bobby Knight, and a few others. It was a
> very sincere attempt for us to put hard feelings aside, get to know
> each other better, amd just have a good time. George again was very
> indignant about this offer. However, he came up with an idea that he
> could use ATL-Rsg as a vehicle to have a clinic and volunteered to
> come if we would pay him and set aside the monday after for a Perfect
> Impact workshop. To me, this was a very selfish and egotitstical act
> and he had not even consulted with Randy on this. George was
> interested in RSG-ATL becoming about him, rather than Randy and the
> rest of us. A lot of folks pounced on George for this and rightfully
> so...it showed his selfish, egotistical, self indulgant nature. I
> think it was this action by George, more than any other, that really
> turned me off to him and showed his true nature
>
> In the next few months, with the weather getting good, i had the
> chance to meet many of you and my love affair with RSG and its members
> truly began. Never had i met such a delightful, sincere, and fun
> loving group. And many of you will agree, we have had some good
> times. We talked a bit about George casually and Randy asked me one
> day to "come clean" about George. I told Randy that i did have the
> goods on George regarding inducements to post postive reviews, but i
> was afraid about the embarasssment it would cause him and i knew damn
> well that i would get pounced by some of you, and well deserved, for
> not being more forthcoming.. But Randy urged me to reconsider, given
> the importance of the truth coming out. And given the friendships i
> had developed in this group, i felt i owed you the truth . It was a
> cathartic experience for me as i clearly did something that was wrong,
> not the crime of the century mind you, but i promoted George's
> products and George as an individual even though i was not sincere
> about it. I misrepresented him not only out of a false sense of
> obligation, but out of pity. The guy is pathetic, believe me and
> being a caring person , i had a soft spot for him. but nevertheless,
> that doesn't excuse my actions and the repeated false and inflated
> representations i made of him as a golfer, instructor, and a person..
>
>
> now there have been a few of you that believe i "spiled the beans" on
> George to get "in" with RSG. Nothing further from the truth. I have
> a great family, a successful career, many friends and acquaintaces,
> and make a whole lot of money...i am not bragging and those of you
> that know me know that i am not a braggert and a very down to earth
> low key individual, but this is the truth. I do not come to this
> group for validation, as i am sure the same pertains to many of you.
> This forum is a source of entertainemnt for me, a stress reliever as i
> juggle a full time hospital job and a small consulting firm, and a way
> to network and meet some great people. If you don't accept me or
> don't like me, that is fine...life goes on and i am not the worse for
> it. The same apllies to all of you i hope...if it doesn't , something
> is very wrong. So please, Greg Schoenberg, George, and others, I
> have "come out" concerning George not for acceptance, but a need to
> clense myself of wrongs i have done and out of a love for this group
> and admiration and respect for many of you who i have met personally.
> To put any other motive on my actions is being very mean spirited and
> is a real stretch and is used to fulfill your own selfish,
> contemptable motives.
>
> What we have here is a markateer who couldn't care less about you as a
> person. He beleives his methods are superior and belittles those that
> do not possess his "superior" knowledge. He has referred to this
> forum as "the enemy" He has mocked many of you for your swings and
> scores in previous RSG events, Yet, he will not show us his swing or
> tell us his scores and will make no honest attempt to meet any of us
> "in the flesh". He has thrown his nose up at our attempts of
> generosity to him (ie ATL-RSG) . He has used profanity to many of you.
> He has invoked religeous themes to enhance his credibility. Need we
> say more.
>
> There is an absence of outrage in this society. We take charlatans
> for granted, as we see them on TV, magazines, and internet daily. We
> are lied to by our government, our priests are molesting our children,
> and corporate scandals have made us all wonder if there is any
> integrity left in the business world. I cannot fix the big
> picture...it is too big and the problems too complex. But i can make
> an impact in my neighborhood, in my household, among my family, and in
> a virtual community as this. George Hibblard does not display traits
> that i would define as admirable and he mirrors the worst, rather than
> the best, virtues of our world. He is an opportunist and does a great
> job when attacked of playing the victim, distorting the facts, or
> attacking the messenger, rather than accepting the message. I have
> yet to see any remorseful behavior, just counter accusations and
> rationalizations. George reminds me very much of the Arthur Anderson
> and Enron execuives on TV during the congressional hearings...they act
> like they know nothing and put the blame on everyone else and portray
> themselves as the "wronged"
>
> I do not want someone elses dog pooping on my lawn and neither do i
> want the likes of George Hibbard pooping on our community of RSG. If
> you ignore him, some say, he will go away. If a doctor said you had
> cancer, would you apply this logic. Of course not. This is why i
> have been vocal about this individual. He is a parasite and if we
> continue to speak up maybe he will simply leave or just maybe, JUST
> MAYBE, a light may go on in his head and maybe a decent. kinder side,
> free of opportunism and venom, may emerge., although i am not certain
> if this side exists.
>
> George, I do not hate you and neither does anyone here. I do not wish
> you anything but the best of health and fortune for you and your
> family. But every indiginity you have suffered and will experience in
> the future on this forum and probably in life is most likely well
> deserved and is a direct result of your personality and the way you
> communicate and treat people.
>
> i feel sorry for you... i mean truly sorry. As someone in the
> business of taking care of people and some very sick ones at that, i
> see someone here with a lot of pain, suffering, and anger inside. You
> are someone very detached from the mainsteam and cannot relate to
> people in a normal, decent way I question if you ever really derive
> any enjoment from life as your behavior does not correlate with
> someone who is happy or fulfilled. Someone in the 18th hole of life
> as you will be leaving a very sorry legacy behind and the way you
> treat folks here is probably a good barometer of how your interactions
> in the world have been throughout the years. I hope you have a
> conscience and some deceny in side of you that allows you to make
> amends for your actions before your time comes.
>
> George, this will be my last post about you concerning my reasons and
> motives for speaking out against you . Of course i reserve the right
> to respond to any nonsense you retort with regarding this posting.
> Maybe, others here will be as open and as forthcoming as i have. I
> will leave you alone from now on, because i have pity for you. You
> are a very sad and tragic figure. However, poop on the RSG lawn and
> i will surely be back, you can count on it.
>
>
> Eric
Frostback
>
> Eric is a simpleton and a weasel who is apparently here to stir up muck
> by attacking George for no other reasons than to ingratiate himself with
> others in the group and make George look worse than he already does.
> voyage to "born again" status? I have heard his story several times now,
> and it stinks. At least I know where George is coming from; he's trying
> to protect a reputation and business that isn't all that great to begin
> with. The weasel is simply trying to make sure that George is destroyed,
> and, yet, he continues to wish him good health. If you can't see through
> all this bullshit, I feel sorry for you.
>
> I'd trust George before I'd trust the weasel. The guy has one or more
> screws loose, and if anyone is changing the emphasis of this news group,
> you know who it is. At least George contributes to the golf discussion
> and the spamming is at an absolute minimum. You can agree with him or
> not; I don't think it bothers him one iota. What has the weasel
> contributed other than whining about George and his own "pure"
> intentions? Doesn't anyone else sense that something just isn't right?
>
> Those who don't agree with George or don't like him or the way he
> explains things don't have to use the "plonk threat". If you are so weak
> that you can't pass up his (or anyone else's) posts, you need to learn
> self control.
>
> I'm going to hit some balls.
>
Fine, but don't you DARE ever make a post that disputes a claim by GH.
Don't you DARE ever make a claim that something in onee of GH's
publications in unsound. Don't you DARE ever claim that some other golf
swing coach is superior to GH; because "defending himself" against such
"attackes" is what GH is all about here. He posts advive, of course, but
you MUST accept it without comment. GH of course, can run down anyone at
any time, and you DARE not ever defend the person GH runs down.
Rob
--
__________________________________________________________________
Service is the rent we pay for being
RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html )
RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
__________________________________________________________________
"R&B"
>
> "Eric Strulowitz" <mae...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:3d470075...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> > O
> > >Knowing what I know, I seriously doubt if Eric would have the nerve to
> say
> > >these things to my face. Instead, I'd get to hear for the umpteenth
time
> > >about his work with cancer victims, and perhaps be invited to play golf
> at
> > >this country club with Mary and him.
> > >
> >
> > Greg,
> >
> > First off, you are very wrong in your assumption that i would not say
> > to your face what i would say on-line. i don't look for trouble but i
> > have never backed off from anyone in my life. You are a wimp and
> > wimps don't worry me.
>
> I've seen pictures of you, Eric. Your appearance corresponds to your
> behavior here in RSG. If you had the nerve to call me a "wimp" to my
face,
> it would be the last thing you would remember for a few hours.
So now you've elevated this discussion to a threat of violence, Greg?
What the f*ck is wrong with you, man?
Several in RSG have met Eric. He's a sensible, intelligent and honest
individual, who has never shown himself to any of us to be anything other
than cordial and gracious.
You, on the other hand, are starting to show a side of yourself that is not
altogether sensible.
Why not just let this drop? You have no personal investment in the debate
between Eric and George, and you're only digging yourself deeper and deeper
into a hole with each ridiculous remark (and threat) you add.
Randy
glfnaz
Perfect Impact wrote:
> "glfnaz" <glf...@qwest.net> wrote in message
> news:3D46EBB9...@qwest.net...
> > Greg
> >
> > What George did was initiate a thread where he globally criticised the
> golf
> > swings of RSG ATL folks.
> > His pompus attidude about the players lacking in the knowledge or ability
> to
> > make good swings was his way to raise himdself above others, put himself
> in the
> > saviour's throne, and give folks a subtle spam.
>
> You stretch. I commented on three swings and looked at only about four.
> Not the whole lot. Takes far too much time to download. Nor did I pan any
> of them, except Eric's obvious failure to continue with what I taught him --
> where he was slamming me.
>
> You skew the language of my post on this subject. I gave recognition of
> virtue in the swings I saw.
>
> > He could have as I did, recognize the fine golf swings of John P
>
> didn't see
>
> , John R,
>
> I commented on its excellence
>
> D
> > Laville,
>
> didn't see
>
> and the scoring achievements of Pitts and John R.
>
> didn't see.
>
> My comments about ability to discern good swing principles was based on
> months of comments by so many in RSG that I have rarely found the kind of
> acumen here about "good swing" that gave rise to a generalization. I also
> made it clear that it did not include all of RSG. I stated that many with
> acumen didn't post often.
>
> Please be accurate in your broadsides, Brad.
>
> > Instead he took his
> > usual route of using RSG for his own self serving actions.
> >
> > If he was asked by Randy for a review of Randy's swing, fine---but could
> he
> > really have nothing good to say about a few of the others?! I mean John
> and
> > John have a lot of really *great* things going on in their swings, as does
> David
> > and others. There was *a lot* of positive stuff that we could learn from
> in
> > those videos.
> > Instead he was negative.
>
> Not at all. Post the negatives, in their entirety. Exclude Eric for
> obvious reasons.
>
> This is a challenge. Put up.
>
> George
George said
"Observing the swings from RSG Atlanta it is clear that many of the golfers,
all of good faith and intelligence, are operating on less-than-complete
information and understanding. So ball striking and scoring are going to
suffer in proportion TO those voids."
Perfect Impact
>
>
> George said
> "Observing the swings from RSG Atlanta it is clear that many of the
golfers,
> all of good faith and intelligence, are operating on less-than-complete
> information and understanding. So ball striking and scoring are going to
> suffer in proportion TO those voids."
>
Yup, and in the swings I saw and commented on, I pointed out their
weaknesses and ways in which they fell short of "best mechanics." I also
pointed out several very good things in most of them! I was not negative: I
brought out areas of potential improvement.
This is hardly negative - it is helpful, unless the swingers are interested
only in pats on the back and compliments that are ashes in the mouth when
they know darn well SOMEthing is NQR --- (NQR - not quite right)....
Pupils at my academy often come with low handicaps that they achieve by good
short games and know full well that that isn't what golf is all about; they
want good ball striking as well as good scores. That's why they come.
Unease with swings that are NQR far outweighs some good scoring due to the
nature of ball striking and its lure.
In some cases some deficiencies in the posted and commented swings were
quite serious; in others minimal, But all the ones I talked about could
have been improved - even if only a little - with the pointers I mentioned -
mostly having to do with plane and top of backswing position.
One had a very early release, another a medium early one: there are drills
to improve those problems.
But I stand by it: if those golfers DID KNOW the principles of the plane and
vectors that are available knowledge and had a quick swing analysis by
someone truly knowledgeable about that geometry, their ball striking would
improve.
Idiosyncracies are one thing: less than perfect physics is another. I like
"perfect" and I know it is achievable for virtually all who will make the
small changes they usually entail. Often they simply don't know what those
changes need to be and why, and that is the reason for the comment that
"they just don't know!" I didn't read more than a couple comments from
others here on those swings that pointed out the things I saw...
George.
Frostback
>
> Idiosyncracies are one thing: less than perfect physics is another. I like
> "perfect" and I know it is achievable for virtually all who will make the
> small changes they usually entail. Often they simply don't know what those
> changes need to be and why, and that is the reason for the comment that
> "they just don't know!" I didn't read more than a couple comments from
> others here on those swings that pointed out the things I saw...
You keep on with this claim, but never show it. If it is so easy, you
should have it down cold, yet you never show up. They why here is
obvious, of course. You can run down others for their game, but you
never show what game you have. Point out what you want; anyone can do
this, of course, talk is cheap, and anyone can read Golf or Golf Digest
along with numerous golf swing publications. The "advice" in none of
these leads to a good game, as if they did, I, for example, would be on
tour.
Driving range pros are grossly overpriced a dime a dozen. I recently had
a number of them insist I was coming over the top due to a recent swing
change. My swing coach showed me that I was not, and provided me with
the information I needed to make an improvement. Amazing how each one
improvement has lead to another with no overloading with swing thoughs
and cheap platitudes.
Bottom line is that your credibility in this area is zero because no one
has seen you play. You publish a list of "testimonials", but no one has
seen a happy student of your play. These two facts speak for themselves
as far as this forum is concerned. Any response you make on this issue
is completely hollow and thus lacking of any validity.
Annika1980
>you don't scare me with you
>threats. I GUARANTEE you a hospital bed in the Intensive Care Unit if
>you ever raised a hand to me. You will be shitting through a tube
>and drooling from your mouth for the rest of your life and that is a
>promise.
C'mon guys .... leave Bobby Knight out of this!
Annika1980
>I don't think i will invite Harlan to my club. But there is a nine
>hole goat track not too far away with a bunch of rednecks always
>aviailable for a game. I am sure you and he both would feel right at
>home. . Be happy to set up a time and then dinner at Waffle House,
>or would you feel out of place there...perhaps a bit too dressy?
Hey now, watch it!
What's wrong with the Waffle House?
Their 7 ways of cooking hash browns reminds me of some of the shots at
RSG-ATLANTA:
Scattered, covered, smothered, chunked, topped, diced, & peppered.
Mike Dalecki
>
> Mike, when it comes to GH, you see red. I think it's difficult for you,
> given your history with him, to see any other color.
His history speaks for itself.
> Here is how I see it.....
>
> 1. When Eric revealed GH conned him into spamming, I jumped all over
> George. I was thoroughly disgusted by his action and his non-action after
> he was caught. He should have apologized, but he didn't.
>
> 2. GH did crawl away for a couple of months, as did his detractors.....no
> potshots were lobbed toward him, thus all was peaceful in RSG.
>
> 3. Randy asks GH to review his swing....GH did so appropriately, along with
> a couple of others. GH didn't do anything wrong, nor did Randy in asking
> him.
>
> 4. Then Eric lobs several unprovoked, personal potshots toward George, and
> the fun begins. I don't believe he has any business doing that. It causes
> nothing but problems in RSG, so I called him on it, same as I would you if
> you resorted to such behavior.
>
> 5. If GH resorts to spamming or initiating personal attacks, I will jump on
> him for it too. But....he's entitled to defend himself.
>
> I have a challenge for you Mike or anybody else. Show me a thread,
> especially a recent thread, where George *initiated* a personal attack.
You know what? I couldn't care less. You can go back in the archives
if you want and see the lies he posted about me, the personal insults,
the foul language, the whole nine yards.
If you think for just a tiny second that criticism of GH makes his
responses in this vein acceptable, then we don't have much to talk
about.
He wants to post here, he needs to be a big boy and accept the fact that
not everyone sees him as the great guru of the swing. Lord knows he's
been seen contradicting himself time and again. So that "vision" of him
is out.
He DOESN'T know what he's talking about. How many times does he need to
show that he contradicts himself for it to be apparent? How many times
does he need to make some cockamamied commentary about what happens in
the swing only to have that refuted clearly by one or another people?
(Weight shift comes to mind).
If he wants the respect and adoration of this audience, he should A) be
correct, B) be apologetic and take responsibility when he's not, and C)
stop spamming us.
Whatever ANYONE says that provokes him, that doesn't make his spamming
right. Two wrongs and all that.
> Finally, I believe I want the same thing you want for RSG. Participants
> offer discussion about golf.....disagreements focus on the issue, not
> personal matters, and all display total intolerance for spam and trolling.
The problem is GH. Always has been. Do you need to see a historical
progression once more to make that point clear? I don't think so.
So why are you defending the undefendable? It is lost on me. What's in
it for you?
Mike
>
> "Mike Dalecki" <mi...@dalecki.net> wrote in message
> news:3D469048...@dalecki.net...
> > Greg Schoenberg wrote:
> > >
> > > The best thing about this post is the title. I sure hope it's true.
> >
> > You know, Greg, I just can't figure out what your motivation in all this
> > is. The facts about GH are not in doubt. Why you continue to try to
> > rehabilitate the hardened marketeer is beyond me. His very long record
> > indicates he's not interested in doing anything other than what's best
> > for him.
> >
> > Why do you not have more sympathy for the larger community that is RSG
> > than you do for one individual who has shown, time and again, that he
> > places his own welfare ahead of the group's welfare?
> >
> > How many more Hibbard spam episodes will it take? I doubt you're simply
> > a slow learner--what else is going on here?
> >
> > Your actions would sacrifice the many for the one. And the one isn't
> > worth it, not by several orders of magnitude.
> >
> > <Eric said:>
> > > > George, I do not hate you and neither does anyone here. I do not wish
> > > > you anything but the best of health and fortune for you and your
> > > > family.
> > >
> > > Really....if I was George, I'd sure feel loved by your oft repeated
> words of
> > > contempt. Sure hope you never wish the "best of health and fortune" for
> me
> > > and my family.
> >
> >
> > You're missing the point. Why on earth you continue to defend this GH
> > character in the face of all he's done is beyond me.
> >
> >
> > > >But every indiginity you have suffered and will experience in
> > > > the future on this forum and probably in life is most likely well
> > > > deserved and is a direct result of your personality and the way you
> > > > communicate and treat people.
> > >
> > > Trusting the wrong people creates problems too.
> >
> >
> > There you go. As well, expecting a weasel to change its spots is
> > something that creates problems as well.
> >
> > Why on earth you defend GH is lost on me. RSG was great here for the
> > last month or so with minimal contributions by GH. Now it's the crap
> > again, and GH is fully and completely to blame for that.
> >
> > Unless you think RSG is great like this, I don't see why on earth you
> > continue to encourage the crap GH does. Because make no mistake, Greg,
> > that's what you do.
> >
> > He's the problem, Greg; Period. Always has been.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > PS: Why not, if you're going to inject yourself in here at all, spend
> > your time encouraging GH to turn the other cheek to his perceived
> > slights? Wouldn't that also fit your philosophy?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Mike Dalecki I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
> > GCA Accredited Clubmaker. Web Site: http://www.dalecki.net/clubdoctor/
> > RSG-Wisconsin 2002 Report/Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2002/part1.html
> > RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dalecki I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
GCA Accredited Clubmaker. Web Site: http://www.dalecki.net/clubdoctor/
RSG-Wisconsin 2002 Report/Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2002/part1.html
RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dalecki
>
> "Mike Dalecki" <mi...@dalecki.net> wrote in message
> news:3D469048...@dalecki.net...
> > last month or so with minimal contributions by GH. Now it's the crap
> > again, and GH is fully and completely to blame for that.
>
> way GH gets blasted here - in threads that go into the hundreds of posts -
> that I'm not seen as defending GH, so much as defending the right of anyone
> to post, regardless of whether or not they meet with committee approval.
Then it's the same for everyone, right?
I've never said he shouldn't post here. I think he has far less a clue
about the swing than he thinks he has (look at all the contradictions
he's posted, look at how many times he's been wrong), but that doesn't
mean he shouldn't post. I'm not always right, I would never demand in
others what I cannot myself achieve.
But if he wants to present his view of reality, such as it is, as if
it's the only one, well, just as he has his right to post, so do others
have the right to post in response. As you say below, it's Usenet here
we're talking about.
And if he continues to spam us, showing again and again that he places
his own welfare ahead of the group, then what he gets he deserves,
albeit not as much as he does deserve.
> <RANT ON!>
>
> As you say above, it was great here for the last month or so. Part of that
> was the minimal participation by GH. I don't read many of GH's posts, but
> for the most part he must have been in bounds, because there wasn't much
> traffic from or about him.
>
> So what started all the crap this time? In my view, a GH post wasn't the
> seminal event. Randy specifically asked George to comment on the swing video
> of RSG-ATL participants. My immediate reaction to seeing Randy's post was
> "Damn!! Well, here we go again."
You know, it wouldn't take a very mature individual at all to let that
stuff just flow off his back. Would it? But GH must respond each and
every time as if his vaunted reputation is being besmirched. Would that
only be the case!
> It was inevitable that George would comment - in the manner that George
> comments. It was inevitable that someone would say he was full of crap. It
> was inevitable that he would defend himself - the way he defends himself. It
> was inevitable that someone else would dredge up the past. It was inevitable
> that he would dispute history.
So it's inevitable. That doesn't excuse his behavior. It just
demonstrates a lack of maturity.
> Jesus H. Christ!! This is usenet. We cannot make people leave. We cannot put
> them on death row. We cannot punish them. When we find people objectionable,
> we can only ignore them or respond to them in a manner which provides
> feedback that allows them to understand the manner in which we are willing
> to deal with them. Sometimes the latter requires time and patience. Telling
> George he's wrong doesn't seem to be what provokes the vulgar tirades.
> Telling him he's stupid or dishonest guarantees it. Does anyone here not
> understand that? What, then, is the point of waking George up, slapping him,
> and insulting him? Did ANYONE not see this coming? Randy, did you not know
> what your simple question would start? Eric, did you not know that
> voluntarily goring GH's ox one more time would add to the bloodbath? JeffC,
> did you not know that telling newbies they are not entitled to an opinion is
> not the same as suggesting they get informed before they take sides in a
> long running feud? Mike, I tend to agree with your position in your running
> battle with GH, but that doesn't make you appear less stubborn. David, can't
> you ever just say "George, you are wrong because .... " Do you always have
> to take a shot? Brad, your attempts are laudable, but you're never going to
> convince GH of anything.
GH's behavior on RSG is no different, in my mind, than someone ringing
your doorbell, asking to use your toilet, and then doing his business on
your living room carpet.
RSG is, in part, a community of people. Not all who read RSG are in it,
some wouldn't be caught dead in it, and others just pass through without
spending the time to understand what's here.
I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone like GH work as hard as he
does to destroy that without some response. Dave, I respect your point
of view, but wasn't it Edward Burke who said "The only thing necessary
for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"?
I will not--nor will many others--stand around here and do nothing.
> Face it guys. GH's responses are quite predictable. He has a need to always
> be the last word. He cannot accept that sometimes people have to agree to
> disagree. I don't have any of his stuff. I don't want any of his stuff. I've
> read enough of his posts to know his methods are not for me. I despise the
> manner in which he entered this newsgroup. I hate commercial posts.
> Arrogance and condescension leave me cold. But, I'd not seen much of any of
> that from GH recently. Even if he hadn't shed some of those more
> objectionable trappings of his former presence, at least they weren't
> conspicuously on display.
That just demonstrates his lack of maturity. It's his spamming I'm
concerned with. His buffoonery about the swing I mostly ignore, because
he's been shown to be wrong, or to contradict himself, so many times.
But I don't care about that--it's a free country, and one is able to say
what one wants.
> The "old George" was asleep. He was very quietly behaving himself. That's
> the most we can ask of anyone here: to behave themselves. That's it. That's
> all we've got. For the last month or more, GH's presence was minimal. It was
> very easy to participate in this newsgroup without having it "All George,
> all the time." Then ..... you guys woke him up, drug him out of bed, and
> started bitch-slapping him. Then you say, "See, he always gets nasty." What
> the hell did you expect, exactly?
Expect? How about if he leaves and never comes back? Wouldn't it be
nice if he could do that?
> For nearly 4 years, I've loved participating in the group. I check in
> several times a day. Unless I'm on the road, RSG is a part of my daily
> routine. But, guys, I've got to tell you this: the value of RSG as a
> pleasant past time in no way hinges on the presence or absence of GH.
> Resorting to "objectionable behavior" to rid ourselves of those who behave
> objectionably just diminishes the value of the group.
I would take issue with that. I don't know what you define as such
objectionable behavior, but when someone deposits fecal matter on my
living room rug, I'm going to object, and object hard. If you find that
objectionable, then so be it.
But I won't, without objection, live with the stink.
> OK .... I've had my say. I'm done now. This was my last response to this
> thread, and truly my last post about GH. I haven't yet decided whether I
> will continue to read this thread to EOL, but my email works.
Dave, I still respect your point of view, but I find it naive. GH is
the problem. The solution will be when he changes his behavior, or
leaves. Either is fine with me.
Mike
Greg Schoenberg
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 22:25:48 GMT, "Greg Schoenberg" <de...@cnnw.net>
> wrote:
>
> >O Harlan, you truly are a schmuck. Had you not seen the light, you too
> >could have played golf with Eric and Mary, had fish dinner at their
country
> >club, and discussed cancer victims, how golf is for the racially pure and
> >upwardly mobile, and of course, the evils of Hibbardism.
> >
> >No fish for you!
> >
> >;>
> >
>
>
> thank you for validating that Halran is a shmuck..his behavior has
> justified that.
>
> I don't think i will invite Harlan to my club. But there is a nine
> hole goat track not too far away with a bunch of rednecks always
> aviailable for a game. I am sure you and he both would feel right at
> home. . Be happy to set up a time and then dinner at Waffle House,
> or would you feel out of place there...perhaps a bit too dressy?
>
> Eric
>
Your true self revealed!
> PS just continue to poke fun at cancer victims. That is real nice
> behavior from someone who once served as a pastor...real
> Christianlike. Maybe one day you or one of your loved ones will have
> to endure cancer, the treatments, and a slow painful death...and maybe
> it won't be so funny then and you will eat your words..
My father died of lung cancer at age 56, 10 years ago, you stupid turd! He
died right before my very eyes, you stupid turd!
He was my best friend.....there isn't a day that goes by when I don't think
of him, especially on the golf course. My best memories with him was when
we played golf together. So eat shit and die, you stupid turd!!!
As for cancer victim, I'm not making fun of them. I'm making fun of you
because you make it a badge of sainthood for yourself....it's practically in
all your meaningless posts.
Greg Schoenberg
Guess you met him.
-Greg
""R&B"" <YouHav...@All.com> wrote in message
news:n4G19.29307$Dn3.1...@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
Sparky
On 30-Jul-2002, "Greg Schoenberg" <de...@cnnw.net> wrote:
> There is a side of me that has zero tolerance for cowards and weasels.
> Guess you met him.
>
> -Greg
No, I believe we met the side of you that couldn't recognize a coward or a
weasel if it hit you in the face...
me
Viker 44
>"Dave Holo" <dave...@msn.com> wrote in message
>> JeffC, did you not know that telling newbies they are not entitled to an
>opinion is
>> not the same as suggesting they get informed before they take sides in a
>> long running feud?
>I thought I said the latter.
>Anyway, I can't think of any way to stop all this. Even if it can be agreed
>upon for all of us who know GH's history to completely refrain from
>responding
>in any way, ever, to any of his swing theory posts, eventually he's going to
>say or do something that can't be tolerated by someone. Then what?
Gee, it's finally "dawning" on you Jeff..... after all these years..... this
is an unmoderated forum...... the entire usenet is a wild frontier of worded
idea exchange...... you will never ever stop trolls, or freedom of speech on
usenet no matter how much you dislike that person's manner or form of
speech..... it's impossible...... the delusion that this group can somehow do
so, is highly amusing..............
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Viker 44
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Eric Strulowitz
>
>As for cancer victim, I'm not making fun of them. I'm making fun of you
>because you make it a badge of sainthood for yourself....it's practically in
>all your meaningless posts.
>
Exageration and lies again. But i point out what i do because it is
an extention of who i am namely a very charitable caring person who
would never wish physical suffering for george or anyone else as you
insinuate. you portray me as some kind of monster to elevate your own
stature and that is totally incompatible with who i am and what i do
as my life's calling.
But if there are saints out there, i will take credit as being one,
If there is a god , he surely does his healing work through the many
fine nurses and doctors out there. They are truly very speciall
people and are our true heros, along with our firemen, police, and
other public servents. .
no more name calling here because this group has heard enough. I
apologized to you and have yet to hear one back from you. I don't
expect an apology after your agressive behavior toward me and you have
shown this group a lot about your true colors. I am sorry you are so
prideful, not to be able to humble yourself as i have. As a former
pastor, surely you understand how Jesus felt about prideful and
vindictive behavior. And surely you understand what Jesus taught
about forgiveness. Or are you just another so called Christian that
likes to talk the talk, but doesn't walk the walk.
Eric
David Laville
<g...@perfectimpact.com> wrote:
>But I stand by it: if those golfers DID KNOW the principles of the plane and
>vectors that are available knowledge and had a quick swing analysis by
>someone truly knowledgeable about that geometry, their ball striking would
>improve.
Then I guess you must be the man to ask. How can I alter my pivot
motion to change the arc of approach to an angle of approach and what
part does roll transfer power play in altering the angle to the arc?
What hip motion variation is most disruptive in changing an angle of
approach to an arc of approach? What is the roll of physics in an
angle and arc of approach and why does it make the angle an uncentered
motion?
I'm sure someone like you who is so knowledgeable in planes, vectors
and swing geometry should find answering these questions quite
elementary.
David Laville, G.S.E.M.
The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Greg Schoenberg
usenet, until this evening.
FWIW, I'm resolved to stay out of further GH frays. He can defend himself.
-Greg
"Mike Dalecki" <mi...@dalecki.net> wrote in message
news:3D475262...@dalecki.net...
Greg Schoenberg
> O
>
> But if there are saints out there, i will take credit as being one,
> If there is a god , he surely does his healing work through the many
> fine nurses and doctors out there. They are truly very speciall
> people and are our true heros, along with our firemen, police, and
> other public servents. .
>
> no more name calling here because this group has heard enough. I
> apologized to you and have yet to hear one back from you. I don't
> expect an apology after your agressive behavior toward me and you have
> shown this group a lot about your true colors. I am sorry you are so
> prideful, not to be able to humble yourself as i have.
I read your apology....I don't believe a word of it.
As a former
> pastor, surely you understand how Jesus felt about prideful and
> vindictive behavior. And surely you understand what Jesus taught
> about forgiveness. Or are you just another so called Christian that
> likes to talk the talk, but doesn't walk the walk.
So how do you know my beliefs are Christian? Perhaps they are LDS, Jehovah
Witness, Episcopalian, Catholic, or Unitarian. You don't know, nor will
you, because it's none of your business.
I don't wear my beliefs like a badge around here.
It took me 3 hours to cool off from my tirade toward you. You struck a raw
nerve when you accused me of having no compassion towards cancer victims.
Normally, I shrug stupid assumptions like that off, but today was a unique
day. My 10 yr. old son had his first golf lesson today. The pro remarked
about his natural swing and how he will be beating me in 4 years. I'd give
anything for my father to see that/hear that.....anything!!!!
So skip the apology....I resolve to ignore you completely. I hope you'll do
the same.
-Greg
Puttster
> > motives for speaking out against you .
Eric, are you claiming your attacks on GH are not, as Greg supposes,
provoked by anything GH did to you? If so, that is good. RSG should be
about golf, not personal vendettas.
If I may summarize your post: you are saying your attacks come from a desire
to "clean the neighborhood" for the rest of us here and to make RSG a
friendlier, more efficient and more popular board. Is that it?
Puttster
Perfect Impact
"David Laville" <dlav...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:feveku0s5v5n7l5hb...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:47:03 -0400, "Perfect Impact"
> <g...@perfectimpact.com> wrote:
>
>
> >But I stand by it: if those golfers DID KNOW the principles of the plane
and
> >vectors that are available knowledge and had a quick swing analysis by
> >someone truly knowledgeable about that geometry, their ball striking
would
> >improve.
>
> Then I guess you must be the man to ask. How can I alter my pivot
> motion to change the arc of approach to an angle of approach and what
> part does roll transfer power play in altering the angle to the arc?
> What hip motion variation is most disruptive in changing an angle of
> approach to an arc of approach? What is the roll of physics in an
> angle and arc of approach and why does it make the angle an uncentered
> motion?
>
> I'm sure someone like you who is so knowledgeable in planes, vectors
> and swing geometry should find answering these questions quite
> elementary.
>
You betcha. By avoiding the theoretical crap completely and simply
addressing some VERY simple principles in much simpler images, empowering
the average guy with a clear picture of where to put his hands, the
clubshaft, the clubhead, and "how it works" from an empirical and well
illustrated way.
As I just said in the last post, your textbook world and my real world on
the lesson tee are galaxies apart.
I get points across in everyday English, with simple demonstrations. Want
to see how I go about it? It is not with arcane Homer Kelley talk.
George
Eric Strulowitz
>I read your apology....I don't believe a word of it.
>
>
it was very sincere. Stop analyzing and just read the fucking
words!!! You are just so prideful and stubborn that you can't see
it. There are some people that no matter what you say, no matter what
you do, it will never be enough. They have to be right no matter what.
Greg, the record speaks for itself and anyone will see what a trouble
maker and instigator you have been. I am done fighting with George
and am now going to spend my extra time on more important issues but
the record will show you to be nothing more than a George Hibbard ass
kisser, for reasons that are a total mystery to all of us. He also,
no matter what, cannot take it even upon himself to apologize.
You too are so alike its amazing.. No self-insight, and pure
stubborness with the need to be right no matter what. My god, the
pain you must have as you live every day.
In the world of GH ass-kissers maybe you are a hero, but to the
truly enlightened here, you have lost a tremendous amount of
credibility. The badge you wear is that of a GH ass kisser. Thank
goodness that there are so many out there that are so enlightened and
have so much self respect and integrity that they choose not to wear
such a badge.
As a recognition of your contribution to this forum over the last 24
hours, I am now declaring myself a team captain at Atlanta-RSG 2003.
My team will be the GH Ass Kissers...so Team Bring It...Bring it on
Eric
Mike Dalecki
In other words, you don't know. Wouldn't it have been simpler just to
say that? And far more honest?
Mike
Julie
"Annika1980" <annik...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020730222001...@mb-md.aol.com...
I didn't know they made chunked hash browns! I'll have to try them sometime.
Eric Strulowitz
>
>It took me 3 hours to cool off from my tirade toward you.
My goodness, such intensity. I was laughing the whole time. A joke
is a joke and for me to take you rantings so seriously, GIVEN THE
SOURCE, that it would take 3 hours to cool off would be quite stupid.
It took me not 3 hours, but 3 minutes to forget about you and get a
good nights rest. And my conscience is indeed clear, as i tried to
sincerly apologize and you had to retort back with additional venom in
your heart.
May want to think about message therapy, biofeedback, masturbation,
colonic enemas, or other means to alleivate all this stress it
appears you are having. Believe me Greg, stress is a killer.,,please
don't worry so much. You have so much to offer this group as its
newly crowned champion GH Ass kisser...your constituency needs you!!!
Have a good day, O Pastor of the Almighty Church of Asskissers !!
Eric
Perfect Impact
Good try.
I know tons more than you imagine. I also know what works and is
appropriate for teaching others, vs. "knowing a lot of theory" -- good on
paper but obscure.
Have nothing else to "try" to attack me with, Mike?
It doesn't matter what I say: you will think of some way to pout me down.
Eric has just delineated the "teams" in this war - seems you are declaring
your allegiance.
GH
Perfect Impact
Greg: Be Aware: you are dealing in this issue with a SAINT. Your "cool
down time" is due to your lack of spirituality, no?
Wow.
George
JeffC
"Viker 44" <vik...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020731010402...@mb-bd.aol.com...
>
> Gee, it's finally "dawning" on you Jeff..... after all these years.....
this
> is an unmoderated forum...... the entire usenet is a wild frontier of
worded
> idea exchange...... you will never ever stop trolls, or freedom of speech
on
> usenet no matter how much you dislike that person's manner or form of
> speech..... it's impossible...... the delusion that this group can
somehow do
> so, is highly amusing..............
It's finally dawning on me? When did I ever imply I felt otherwise?
scott
<g...@perfectimpact.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> Then I guess you must be the man to ask. How can I alter my pivot
>> motion to change the arc of approach to an angle of approach and what
>> part does roll transfer power play in altering the angle to the arc?
>> What hip motion variation is most disruptive in changing an angle of
>> approach to an arc of approach? What is the roll of physics in an
>> angle and arc of approach and why does it make the angle an uncentered
>> motion?
>>
>> I'm sure someone like you who is so knowledgeable in planes, vectors
>> and swing geometry should find answering these questions quite
>> elementary.
>>
>
>You betcha. By avoiding the theoretical crap completely and simply
>addressing some VERY simple principles in much simpler images, empowering
>the average guy with a clear picture of where to put his hands, the
>clubshaft, the clubhead, and "how it works" from an empirical and well
>illustrated way.
>
>As I just said in the last post, your textbook world and my real world on
>the lesson tee are galaxies apart.
>
>I get points across in everyday English, with simple demonstrations. Want
>to see how I go about it? It is not with arcane Homer Kelley talk.
>
>George
That's odd. I understood what David was asking. I could only guess
at some of the answers, but I understood it.
Scott
Eric Strulowitz
>
>Greg: Be Aware: you are dealing in this issue with a SAINT. Your "cool
>down time" is due to your lack of spirituality, no?
>
>Wow.
>
>George
>
>
i promised this group i would not discuss you further and i had the
sincere deceny to apolgize. Apparently, apology is something froeign
to you....but so be it
I am not going to retort back here even though you are trying to stir
the pot. If you want a truce, you've got one. , So why are you
instigating here?
eric
JeffC
Oh my.
Yeah, Waffle House is good eats. By the way, be sure to tip those gals big
% - they work harder than waiters in nice restaurants, and for peanuts.
scott
wrote:
<snip>
><RANT ON!>
^^^^^^^^^^^^
You didn't turn <RANT> mode off! ;)
Scott
>Shields up!
>--------------------------
>Dave
>
>Just say no: to spam, trolls, and crossposting.
>About RSG: see the FAQ at http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html
>Tired of SPAM? http://www.spamcop.net
>
GaryG
news:3d46ece1...@news1.news.adelphia.net:
> So Gary , that is my agenda. I do not hate George, i don't
> think any of us do. but he does need a wakeup call...he is
> everything but a dummy (at least i hope), and by behaving
> in a morally responsible ethical manner he better serves
> this forum and his potential customers. George, please
> heed some of this advise..it is not all that far fetched.
>
> eric
>
Eric, Come on...your lengthy short story in response to my
simple question is way more then I asked for. I am not taking
sides, period. Asking GH in another thread to explain what's
going on is a tactic worthy of co-dependent status. I didn't
ask you about all your golf views and how they differ from GH's.
It appears you're still trying to justify your behavior. No one
person within any NG has the Godly powers of waking up anyone
especially using such a negative approach. I think some self-
control is in order because words can't be taken back, but you
already know that.
G
Perfect Impact
"scott" <ch...@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:3d47f317$0$1433$272e...@news.execpc.com...
When David "asks" me questions from HIS context, he is baiting me. My
approach to teaching differs from his. I do not wish to change the context
of "how to think golf swing" to a frame that I don't believe is as workable
as the more simple approach that I DO use.
It is a debate I cannot win and one in which David has a penchant for
multiplying atoms to galaxy status to "prove his points."
I choose to be silent to "looking at the swing the way he does." I do not
look at it that way, and my own success in teaching is precisely because of
the frame I DO use, IMO. It is a different "box" than Kelley.
GH
Mike Dalecki
So now you've demonstrated in two consecutive emails that you don't know
the answer to the question. And as far as "attacking" you, I'm not
attacking you. I'm asking you this: Why don't you answer the question?
If you know so much why won't you answer the question?
Why?
Eric Strulowitz
>>
>
>Eric, Come on...your lengthy short story in response to my
>simple question is way more then I asked for. I am not taking
>sides, period. Asking GH in another thread to explain what's
>going on is a tactic worthy of co-dependent status. I didn't
>ask you about all your golf views and how they differ from GH's.
>It appears you're still trying to justify your behavior. No one
>person within any NG has the Godly powers of waking up anyone
>especially using such a negative approach. I think some self-
>control is in order because words can't be taken back, but you
>already know that.
>
i say it the way it is . I do not look for an approval rating in my
life, so others may think as they may. I have to justify nothing..the
facts speak for themselves. If five percent understand what i
saying, respect me for it, and agree, that is the only group i care
about, and the rest can frankly kiss my ass.
If anyone endorses the values of GH and the way he treats people,
markets his products, and treats others in this group,, than i wll say
they are deficient, morally and socially. I live my life on a higher
moral plane and will not stoop to condoning such behaivor and have not
hesitated to speak out against it. If that means that you or others
have no use for me, , I guarantee you it will not make one scintilla
of difference in my life. Right is right and wrong is wrong. To
lead one's life seeing only shades of gray is a pathetic existence
indeed and the exact reason this country is in the moral decline it is
in...there is a complete absence of outrage and passion when i t comes
to corrupt or immoral behavior.
eric
Frostback
Try the chili dipped hash browns. They're one of my favorites!!
Rob
--
__________________________________________________________________
Service is the rent we pay for being
RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html )
RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
__________________________________________________________________
Frostback
Let it go.
glfnaz
scott wrote:
I understood the questions --but I'd love to know the answers.
Brad
David Laville
<g...@perfectimpact.com> wrote:
>> Then I guess you must be the man to ask. How can I alter my pivot
>> motion to change the arc of approach to an angle of approach and what
>> part does roll transfer power play in altering the angle to the arc?
>> What hip motion variation is most disruptive in changing an angle of
>> approach to an arc of approach? What is the roll of physics in an
>> angle and arc of approach and why does it make the angle an uncentered
>> motion?
>>
>> I'm sure someone like you who is so knowledgeable in planes, vectors
>> and swing geometry should find answering these questions quite
>> elementary.
>You betcha.
Well, where's your answers?
>By avoiding the theoretical crap completely and simply
>addressing some VERY simple principles in much simpler images, empowering
>the average guy with a clear picture of where to put his hands, the
>clubshaft, the clubhead, and "how it works" from an empirical and well
>illustrated way.
>As I just said in the last post, your textbook world and my real world on
>the lesson tee are galaxies apart.
I didn't ask you how or what you taught. I asked -YOU- specific
questions, instructor to instructor. Where's your answers?
>I get points across in everyday English, with simple demonstrations.
>want to see how I go about it? It is not with arcane Homer Kelley talk.
Then why do you rip off Homer Kelley terminology and use it so much in
this group not knowing what the hell it means?
David Laville
<g...@perfectimpact.com> wrote:
>> In other words, you don't know. Wouldn't it have been simpler just to
>> say that? And far more honest?
>Good try.
>
>I know tons more than you imagine.
Apparently you don't because if you did you would have answered my
questions just to prove how many "tons" you know. By my estimate
it's more like grams.
> I also know what works and is
>appropriate for teaching others, vs. "knowing a lot of theory" -- good on
>paper but obscure.
Good for you. Now what does the way you teach have to do with failing
to answer something you said you were knowledgeable about?
>Have nothing else to "try" to attack me with, Mike?
Sorry you consider the truth to be an attack.
>It doesn't matter what I say: you will think of some way to pout me down.
>Eric has just delineated the "teams" in this war - seems you are declaring
>your allegiance.
Hey George, want to make me and Mike look really stupid? Answer my
questions.
David Laville
<g...@perfectimpact.com> wrote:
>When David "asks" me questions from HIS context, he is baiting me. My
>approach to teaching differs from his.
I didn't ask you about your approach to teaching. I asked you to
answer something you claim to know.
>I do not wish to change the context
>of "how to think golf swing" to a frame that I don't believe is as workable
>as the more simple approach that I DO use.
I didn't ask you what you thought was more workable. I asked you to
answer something you claim to know.
>It is a debate I cannot win and one in which David has a penchant for
>multiplying atoms to galaxy status to "prove his points."
I didn't ask for a debate. I asked you to answer something you claim
to know.
>I choose to be silent to "looking at the swing the way he does."
I didn' ask you look at the swing the way I do. I asked you to
answer something you claim to know.
>I do not
>look at it that way, and my own success in teaching is precisely because of
>the frame I DO use, IMO. It is a different "box" than Kelley.
They why do you try to imitate him so much?
David Laville
>> That's odd. I understood what David was asking. I could only guess
>> at some of the answers, but I understood it.
>I understood the questions --but I'd love to know the answers.
I'm going to give George a little while longer to answer the questions
then I will. They're so simple his ignorance of them is going to
embarrass him.
banjo bob
>
> Tonight I have dipped in to this silly forum, after one of my fellow Brits
> gave me a nudge, to find you, Eric, once again presenting yourself,
> repeatedly, in this way.
Hey, Phil is back! Now fuck off you stupid bugger.
John "Da Ringer" Roberson
he gave me 3 things to consider and 2 of them helped me out. The 1 swing tip
I disregarded was to swing a bit more upright.
John Roberson
--
__________________________________________
A bad day of Golf is better than a good day of work
(Even if I miss 7 putts from inside 2 feet.)
"glfnaz" <glf...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:3D46EBB9...@qwest.net...
> Greg
>
> What George did was initiate a thread where he globally criticised the
golf
> swings of RSG ATL folks.
> His pompus attidude about the players lacking in the knowledge or ability
to
> make good swings was his way to raise himdself above others, put himself
in the
> saviour's throne, and give folks a subtle spam.
> He could have as I did, recognize the fine golf swings of John P, John R,
D
> Laville, and the scoring achievements of Pitts and John R. Instead he took
his
> usual route of using RSG for his own self serving actions.
>
> If he was asked by Randy for a review of Randy's swing, fine---but could
he
> really have nothing good to say about a few of the others?! I mean John
and
> John have a lot of really *great* things going on in their swings, as does
David
> and others. There was *a lot* of positive stuff that we could learn from
in
> those videos.
> Instead he was negative.
>
> ( Personally I'd love to see George do his dance)
>
> Brad
>
> Greg Schoenberg wrote:
>
> > Mike, when it comes to GH, you see red. I think it's difficult for you,
> > given your history with him, to see any other color.
> >
> > Here is how I see it.....
> >
> > 1. When Eric revealed GH conned him into spamming, I jumped all over
> > George. I was thoroughly disgusted by his action and his non-action
after
> > he was caught. He should have apologized, but he didn't.
> >
> > 2. GH did crawl away for a couple of months, as did his
detractors.....no
> > potshots were lobbed toward him, thus all was peaceful in RSG.
> >
> > 3. Randy asks GH to review his swing....GH did so appropriately, along
with
> > a couple of others. GH didn't do anything wrong, nor did Randy in
asking
> > him.
> >
> > 4. Then Eric lobs several unprovoked, personal potshots toward George,
and
> > the fun begins. I don't believe he has any business doing that. It
causes
> > nothing but problems in RSG, so I called him on it, same as I would you
if
> > you resorted to such behavior.
> >
> > 5. If GH resorts to spamming or initiating personal attacks, I will
jump on
> > him for it too. But....he's entitled to defend himself.
> >
> > I have a challenge for you Mike or anybody else. Show me a thread,
> > especially a recent thread, where George *initiated* a personal attack.
> >
> > Finally, I believe I want the same thing you want for RSG. Participants
> > offer discussion about golf.....disagreements focus on the issue, not
> > personal matters, and all display total intolerance for spam and
trolling.
> >
> > If George and Eric can fit within these perameters, then I'm cool.
> >
> > -Greg
> >
> > "Mike Dalecki" <mi...@dalecki.net> wrote in message
> > news:3D469048...@dalecki.net...
> > > Greg Schoenberg wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The best thing about this post is the title. I sure hope it's true.
> > >
> > > You know, Greg, I just can't figure out what your motivation in all
this
> > > is. The facts about GH are not in doubt. Why you continue to try to
> > > rehabilitate the hardened marketeer is beyond me. His very long
record
> > > indicates he's not interested in doing anything other than what's best
> > > for him.
> > >
> > > Why do you not have more sympathy for the larger community that is RSG
> > > than you do for one individual who has shown, time and again, that he
> > > places his own welfare ahead of the group's welfare?
> > >
> > > How many more Hibbard spam episodes will it take? I doubt you're
simply
> > > a slow learner--what else is going on here?
> > >
> > > Your actions would sacrifice the many for the one. And the one isn't
> > > worth it, not by several orders of magnitude.
> > >
> > > <Eric said:>
> > > > > George, I do not hate you and neither does anyone here. I do not
wish
> > > > > you anything but the best of health and fortune for you and your
> > > > > family.
> > > >
> > > > Really....if I was George, I'd sure feel loved by your oft repeated
> > words of
> > > > contempt. Sure hope you never wish the "best of health and fortune"
for
> > me
> > > > and my family.
> > >
> > >
> > > You're missing the point. Why on earth you continue to defend this GH
> > > character in the face of all he's done is beyond me.
> > >
> > >
> > > > >But every indiginity you have suffered and will experience in
> > > > > the future on this forum and probably in life is most likely well
> > > > > deserved and is a direct result of your personality and the way
you
> > > > > communicate and treat people.
> > > >
> > > > Trusting the wrong people creates problems too.
> > >
> > >
> > > There you go. As well, expecting a weasel to change its spots is
> > > something that creates problems as well.
> > >
> > > Why on earth you defend GH is lost on me. RSG was great here for the
> > > last month or so with minimal contributions by GH. Now it's the crap
> > > again, and GH is fully and completely to blame for that.
> > >
> > > Unless you think RSG is great like this, I don't see why on earth you
> > > continue to encourage the crap GH does. Because make no mistake,
Greg,
> > > that's what you do.
> > >
> > > He's the problem, Greg; Period. Always has been.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > PS: Why not, if you're going to inject yourself in here at all, spend
> > > your time encouraging GH to turn the other cheek to his perceived
> > > slights? Wouldn't that also fit your philosophy?
Tony
"David Laville" <dlav...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:feveku0s5v5n7l5hb...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2002 21:47:03 -0400, "Perfect Impact"
> <g...@perfectimpact.com> wrote:
>
>
> >But I stand by it: if those golfers DID KNOW the principles of the plane
and
> >vectors that are available knowledge and had a quick swing analysis by
> >someone truly knowledgeable about that geometry, their ball striking
would
> >improve.
>
> Then I guess you must be the man to ask. How can I alter my pivot
> motion to change the arc of approach to an angle of approach and what
> part does roll transfer power play in altering the angle to the arc?
> What hip motion variation is most disruptive in changing an angle of
> approach to an arc of approach? What is the roll of physics in an
> angle and arc of approach and why does it make the angle an uncentered
> motion?
>
> I'm sure someone like you who is so knowledgeable in planes, vectors
> and swing geometry should find answering these questions quite
> elementary.
>
>
Tony
Tony
"Mike Dalecki" <mi...@dalecki.net> wrote in message
news:3D48106A...@dalecki.net...
Mike Dalecki
>
> Because the question is nothing short of idiotic
>
> Tony
Must mean you don't know either. David does; if GH is such a master of
the swing, such a guru, why doesn't HE know it?
Why?
Mike
Perfect Impact
> Tony wrote:
> >
> > Because the question is nothing short of idiotic
> >
> > Tony
>
> Must mean you don't know either. David does; if GH is such a master of
> the swing, such a guru, why doesn't HE know it?
>
> Why?
>
> Mike
Putting stupid questions does not automatically impose a moral obligation
that the question be answered.
Ask your local PGA pro and see what he says.
Or your buddy.
Ask it in the 19th hole.
The agenda/persistence of DL and MD over this "question" and its supposed
"REVELATION" bespeaks quite a shared pathology.
To paraphrase a famous quote, "let the confused remain so -- we have better
things to do."
GH