Swingweight revelation
Joseph N. Hall
"heavy" and it works fine. It does feel heavy. But it actually
is my longest hitting club. Go figure.
Using graphite shafts, D3-4 is probably a good target swingweight.
D1 if you want "light." D6 for "heavy." If the clubs are overlength
it's probably better to just let the swingweight increase in proportion
unless it's something minor like +1/2".
-joseph
--
Joseph N. Hall ... perl, golf, music, and so on
Music --> http://www.digitalweapons.com
Book --> http://www.effectiveperl.com
The Usual Crap --> http://www.5sigma.com/joseph
Mike Dalecki
that retails for $59 in their catalog (it's a pretty good scale, I
think). I wanted to check out my own clubs, and indirectly advance my
budding knowledge of clubmaking.
I had used John Baima's web swingweight calculator to set up my woods,
such that the calculator predicted a swingweight of D1 for the woods.
Imagine my consternation when I checked the swingweight of the driver on
my new scale, and it came in at a D6+.
That's just a bit heavier than predicted by the swingweight calculator.
I exchanged emails with John looking to see what, if in fact anything, I
was doing wrong with the process. John suggested that perhaps the head
of the club was heavier than the specs I was using. I assumed the
clubhead to be 198 grams.
I finally removed the head tonite to weigh it separately. Lo and
behold, it weighs in at about 207 grams, not the 198 I believed (from
the catalog) that it was.
Well, to make a long story short, when you enter 207 in the calculator
instead of 198, the predicted swingweight is...drum roll please....a D6.
And that's what the calculator predicted.
I've learned a lesson here, and that's to carefully weigh components so
I know exactly what each piece will contribute to swingweight.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to determine what swingweight I should aim for
with this club. what are common swingweights for woods? (the driver,
3-wood,and 5-wood?).
Mike
--
Mike Dalecki
I do not patronize spammers! Help keep R.S.G clean.
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Barrie Smart
TM Firesoles are D6, Pings are D1, there's heaps of major brands that fall
between these marks. I've tried with little success to determine why one
mfr makes his clubs swing heavier than another - and I get stumped with the
mumbo-jumbo. I think I've alluded before to my pet subject - the
realtionship of static weight and swingweight. I'll example:
TM 5 iron 390 gram D6
Goldwin 330 gram E0
Wilson Fat Shaft 405 gram D1
All graphite shafts. Now, there's a relationship between swinging a heavy
club (like Wilson) to the top and holding it, then using the swingweight
during the downswing. My theory is that static weight is a valid
consideration for any senior golfers who are finding it difficult to stay on
plane, who might blame their swing, when it might be that they haven't the
strength anymore to control the club at the top. Seems to me that a pro
might say "you need a D1 swingweight" (swings easier), when if the club
weighs 400 grams +, it might feel considerably heavier to swing. Take the
Dynamic Gold Sensicore shaft - it weighs 130 grams + - yet Dynalite shafts
are in the 105g range.
Not sure how to properly quote this argument - but I know I can swing the
Goldwin clubs, albeit a swingweight of E0, much easier than the Wilson at
D1. If I flush it, then no doubt the Wilson will add yards, but that
assumes I can flush it more often than a lighter club I can swing under
control. Any comments
Dunlop
Mike Dalecki <mikeR...@dalecki.net> wrote in message
news:39583A42...@dalecki.net...
Joseph N. Hall
>
> Mike,
>
> TM Firesoles are D6, Pings are D1, there's heaps of major brands that fall
> between these marks. I've tried with little success to determine why one
> mfr makes his clubs swing heavier than another - and I get stumped with the
> mumbo-jumbo.
The swingweight itself isn't as important as the second moment (moment of
inertia). Swingweight is derived from the first moment.
The lighter the shaft, the higher the swingweight of a club that "swings"
the same. The lighter the grip, the higher the swingweight. Taylor Made
clubs in particular seem to have a balance point way down the shaft
(because the non head components are very light), which will lead to a
higher swingweight but approximately the SAME feel as a club with a
slightly heavier shaft and grip.
> I think I've alluded before to my pet subject - the
> realtionship of static weight and swingweight. I'll example:
>
> TM 5 iron 390 gram D6
> Goldwin 330 gram E0
> Wilson Fat Shaft 405 gram D1
In general, lighter (non-head) components should lead to higher
swingweights, because you can put that otherwise wasted weight into
the head.
Zamuel
> I finally broke down and bought Golfworks' swingweight scale, the one that
> retails for $59 in their catalog (it's a pretty good scale, I think).
That is a nice scale you got mike...I looked at em before I bought the
cheaper dynacraft PING style scale...which hooked me with it's unimaginable
simplicity...(g)
Meanwhile, I'm trying to determine what swingweight I should aim for with
this club. what are common swingweights for woods? (the driver, 3-wood,and
5-wood?)
I've seen off the shelf drivers from C-6 to D-4...Not so sure there is a
real standard...I've settled on the following for my clubs...
D=C-9
3=D-0
5&7=D2
I prefer the tee it up clubs not to give me a lot of "Feel" as it distracts
me from my contemplation of the dimples on the ball.
A little more feedback seems desirable in the fairway clubs as they are in
play off of much touger and tighter lies.
]]]Z[[[
Kenny Stultz
For what it's worth, my Ping TiSI driver is D5 and my Zing 2 fairway woods
(which I don't use anymore) are D2.
Against my better judgement <g>, I've been putting some clubs together
recently and have been using John Baima's swingweight calculator also. I found
it to be right on the money with the woods and longer irons and not quite as
accurate with the shorter irons and wedges (although still not off by
that much).
In article <39583A42...@dalecki.net>, mikeR...@dalecki.net says...
>
>I finally broke down and bought Golfworks' swingweight scale, the one
>that retails for $59 in their catalog (it's a pretty good scale, I
>think). I wanted to check out my own clubs, and indirectly advance my
>budding knowledge of clubmaking.
>
>I had used John Baima's web swingweight calculator to set up my woods,
>such that the calculator predicted a swingweight of D1 for the woods.
>Imagine my consternation when I checked the swingweight of the driver on
>my new scale, and it came in at a D6+.
>
>That's just a bit heavier than predicted by the swingweight calculator.
>I exchanged emails with John looking to see what, if in fact anything, I
>was doing wrong with the process. John suggested that perhaps the head
>of the club was heavier than the specs I was using. I assumed the
>clubhead to be 198 grams.
>
>I finally removed the head tonite to weigh it separately. Lo and
>behold, it weighs in at about 207 grams, not the 198 I believed (from
>the catalog) that it was.
>
>Well, to make a long story short, when you enter 207 in the calculator
>instead of 198, the predicted swingweight is...drum roll please....a D6.
>
>And that's what the calculator predicted.
>
>I've learned a lesson here, and that's to carefully weigh components so
>I know exactly what each piece will contribute to swingweight.
>
>Meanwhile, I'm trying to determine what swingweight I should aim for
>with this club. what are common swingweights for woods? (the driver,
>3-wood,and 5-wood?).
>
>Mike
>
>
>--
>Mike Dalecki
>I do not patronize spammers! Help keep R.S.G clean.
>Join us: http://www.mynetcentral.com/rsgnospam/
>RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm
Kenny
------------------------------------------------------
Kenny Stultz
RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/stultzk.htm
fl...@bellsouth.net
<mikeR...@dalecki.net> wrote:
>I finally broke down and bought Golfworks' swingweight scale, the one
>that retails for $59 in their catalog (it's a pretty good scale, I
>think). I wanted to check out my own clubs, and indirectly advance my
>budding knowledge of clubmaking.
>
>I had used John Baima's web swingweight calculator to set up my woods,
>such that the calculator predicted a swingweight of D1 for the woods.
>Imagine my consternation when I checked the swingweight of the driver on
>my new scale, and it came in at a D6+.
>
>That's just a bit heavier than predicted by the swingweight calculator.
>I exchanged emails with John looking to see what, if in fact anything, I
>was doing wrong with the process. John suggested that perhaps the head
>of the club was heavier than the specs I was using. I assumed the
>clubhead to be 198 grams.
>
I ended up building my own scale ... used a digital scale from
Wal mart, made a pivot assembly with a utility knife blade and used
U-channel shelving as a beam. A small magnet on the underside is used
to set the zero , and John's software was used to compile a
calibration table. Drop me a line if you want more poop
peace
flaco
Tim F. Ginnett
more than one of us might be interested.
<fl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:3958a8a6...@NEWS.ATL.BELLSOUTH.NET...
fl...@bellsouth.net
<t-ginnett@{NOSPAM}tamu.edu> wrote:
>Why don't you post your homebrewed swingweight scale info here? I am sure
>more than one of us might be interested.
>
>
OK ... Here goes
Materials required
2 feet of U- channel shelving (1" wide), steel
1 Utility knife blade
1 piece of 3/4 " particle board 6X 24 " long
1 digital scale (I used the Weight watchers model)
1 small magnet (used to zero )
1 2" PVC pipe cap for the butt end of the club
Here goes!
Cut a slit in the particle board with a hacksaw blade , about 6" from
the end , about 1/8 " deep. Mount the knife blade in the slot with
some hot -melt glue or liquid nails . A pair of screws on either side
can be used to steady the pivot .
Next, prepare the arm:
CAREFULLY measure 14 inches from one end of the shelf stock and make a
fine score mark . This will be the pivot point. Secure the scale at
the far end of the pivot arm, so the arm lands in the center of the
scale bed.
Last :
Calibration....
Slip the pipe cap over the butt end and set the arm on the blade at
the scribed line. The arm will be inbalanced of course , set the
magnet at the scale end of the arm and adjust until the scale reads
zero...
Hope this all makes sense!
Bad ASCII art
pipe cap
[_________ pivot______________
| 14" | # magnet
-------------|------------------x--------
blade scale pan
Gerd Werner
that homebuild swingweight scale is a very interesting construction,
but somewhat complicated to build . Let us assume we have the
following information:
- club weight (in g)
- balance point of club (center of gravity in inch from head)
- length of club (in inch)
- weight at 14" from grip cap, the standard swingweight mesuring point
I have measured for Iron 5 with swingweight at about C7:
club weight: 390g
balance point of club: 8,5 inch from head, 29 inch from grip end
length of club: 37,5 inch
weight force at 14 ich point: 803 g
There must be a way to calculate swingweight from that data, right ? .
One could get swingweight with a simple weight mesuring tool. Any
formulas, ideas, any physicists? Or does anyone know a book about the
physics of golf clubs ?
The setup would be (worse ascii art) :
grip -> ===________________________O <- club head
< - 14 " -> o <- round pen
-------- <- scale pan
Club is loosely fixed at grip in a way that the club translates the
force to scale pan. The club should lie (hang ?) parallel to ground.
The pen on the scale is for having a small bearing surface. Of course
you have to calibrate the scale with the pen.
fl...@bellsouth.net
wrote:
Gerd, I tried the round pivot point and found that it slid around .
The knife edge locates the pivot at 14 inches precicesly (sp)
I used a magnet to balance the assembly because I had it.. other items
could be readily used
John Baima has a web page with a Java -based calculator for doing
swingweight. Plug his name into altavista and point at it
HTH
flaco
John Baima
end of the club. And a chart. I thought that I had that chart around,
but I cannot find it. If I can find it, maybe I'll post it to my web
site. Maybe I'll make another Java applet to do the calculation for
built clubs. Is there any interest in this?
Gerd Werner <gwe...@gmx.de> wrote:
John Baima
jo...@silvershot.com
Silver Shot Custom Clubs www.silvershot.com
DFW Golf and the Java Swingweight Calculator
Tim F. Ginnett
a special balance. I actually wrote up a little article about how to do it
for myself, including the calculations, but it is on my computer at home.
I'll try to dig it up and post it.
Tim
"Gerd Werner" <gwe...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:rk7mls8ffn2d77sgv...@4ax.com...
Vince
to swingweight the club? Cause, would'nt the swingweight be preknown by the
club head maker, and they would'nt match up a shaft with a club head that
would'nt produce a playable club....right?
An example...in the Golfworks catalog. If you order a kit to build a club,
they will ship you the club head, shaft, ferrule, and grip. Why do I need to
swingweight this club, once it is assembled?
Thanks for responding so quickly.
Vince
Tim F. Ginnett <t-ginnett@{NOSPAM}tamu.edu> wrote in message
news:8jg38s$7a0$1...@news.tamu.edu...
Vince Gonzalez
Zamuel wrote in message <395C06A4...@worldnet.att.net>...
>Vince wrote:
>
>> If I use the recommended shaft for a particular club head, is it
necessary to
>> swingweight the club?
>
>No...not NECESSARY...But often desirable...
>
>> Cause, would'nt the swingweight be preknown by the
>> club head maker, and they would'nt match up a shaft with a club head that
>> would'nt produce a playable club....right?
>
>But what the foundry DOSEN'T know is what your OTHER clubs swinweights are
or
>what swingweight works best for you.
>
>> An example...in the Golfworks catalog. If you order a kit to build a
club,
>> they will ship you the club head, shaft, ferrule, and grip. Why do I need
to
>> swingweight this club, once it is assembled?
>
>To determine at what swingweight YOU will use the club to best
advantage...If
>you're willing to settle for LESS than that...you don't need
>swinweighting...It's the PERSON that makes a good or bad stroke...not the
club.
>
>]]]Z[[[
>
>
>
Zamuel
Gerd Werner
<t-ginnett@{NOSPAM}tamu.edu> wrote:
>There were some posts a few months back about how to do swingweights without
>a special balance. I actually wrote up a little article about how to do it
>for myself, including the calculations, but it is on my computer at home.
>I'll try to dig it up and post it.
>
>Tim
>
Finally I found a simple explanation.
http://www.clubmaker-online.com/swingwt3.html says it all. I just
wonder why there are swingweight scales if it is that easy.
Thanks for your help.
ken...@my-deja.com
Gerd Werner <gwe...@gmx.de> wrote:
> Finally I found a simple explanation.
> http://www.clubmaker-online.com/swingwt3.html says it all. I just
> wonder why there are swingweight scales if it is that easy.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
Gerd -- It's because the swingweight scale costs less than reliable
scale accurate to a .1 ounces, and I don't have to fiddle with
measuring the balance point of every club.
AND... If you work on a set of irons, trying to get them all matched to
SW, it's a simple matter of checking them on the scale, adjusting the
amount of lead you're using, and rechecking them. If you build more
than a handful of clubs a year, this amounts to a considerable time
savings.
I think I first saw an explanation of SW in inch/ounces about 30 years
ago, but I always figured throwing the clubs on a factory-made SW scale
was faster and easier.
Ken
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Joseph N. Hall
>
> Vince wrote:
>
> > If I use the recommended shaft for a particular club head, is it necessary to
> > swingweight the club?
>
> No...not NECESSARY...But often desirable...
(for vince, not Z)
If you take most "off the shelf" iron heads and put a normal weight, normal
length steel shaft in them, and use a more or less normal weight grip, you
should have a normal swingweight (D1-2).
So there are a couple of things to consider. One is that the shafts will
usually be +/- about 2 grams. This isn't terribly important although if
you're anal about it, you should probably use the heavy shafts for the
wedges and the light shafts for the long irons. (Because the heavy ones
will be a bit stiffer.)
More significant is that the heads will be +/- a couple of grams, or
sometimes more. If you want a very consistent feel, it might be worthwhile
doing something to compensate for this. Of course, golfers who can feel a
one point difference in swingweight are unusual, and even then, most folks
have both heavy and light clubs in their bag with no problem. (It's
unusual for a golfer to have irons, woods, and wedges all with the same
swingweight.)
A good clubmaker who enjoys doing such things can put together a set with
swingweights +/- .5. Is that a sign of good workmanship? Yes. Is it
really necessary? Probably not.
Now, if you're putting together a "wild" club that isn't part of your set,
but you want it to swing like some other club in your set, that's when
you may have to get the lead weights out.
Or if you want some non-standard swingweight (say, you want standard length
but D4), or if you want a super heavy sand wedge, or ....