Will Chrysler survive?
noauth
Dinosaur_Sr
> I say who needs Chrysler? Just a matter of time, and poof!
Jeeps have a market. Otherwise, nothing there. Same for GM, but they
don't have anything as useful as Jeep.
Lloyd Parsons
<7d96f36d-18c2-436c...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
I dunno about that. The new Buick Lacrosse is pretty darn nice and they
are targeting the Lexus crowd in their ads. And reviews about it have
been very positive. My local dealer let me drive one, I was impressed.
Not impressed enough to want to trade my 2009 LaCrosse though! :)
Of course, the Buick line still has the distinction of being a very good
line with good maintenance and long life.
When GM decided to dump some brands, I thought that was fine, but was a
little surprised with at least one of the models that went by the
wayside. The Pontiac Vibe was a very good seller for them, how hard
would it have been to rebadge that?
Dinosaur_Sr
> In article
> <7d96f36d-18c2-436c-ac45-c7105469f...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
I think I'm in the majority in deciding I'd prefer a Lexus to a Buick!
FWIW, my vehicle of choice is a Subaru Forester...about 23,000 with
what I want. A comparable GM product is at least $5K more expensive
without the quality of the Subaru all wheel drive.
Nothing GM makes is a market leader, or particularly innovative. No
Camry...the Cobalt is a nice little car though, but you can get the
equivalent cheaper in a Nissan or a Hyundai, for example...no F150, no
Outback or Forester, no brand recognition like Lexus and Accura or
Mercedes.
IMHO they will hang around for a while, but with the bulk of overhead
and debt they have, they are doomed.
Lloyd Parsons
<365d3f0b-fa56-4e94...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
I've driven both and liked both, but the Buick is better priced imo.
I'm not enamored of the Lexus being all that much better than a Buick,
even if Consumer's Union is in love with all things foreign these days.
And I like buying American. For me to buy a foreign car it has to be
something unique and what I want. Most of them are uncomfortable to me.
I like that American sedan ride!
GM certainly does have problems with overhead and debt, and that is the
bigger issue. Their cars and trucks are fine, imo.
Alan Baker
Lloyd Parsons <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote:
> > I think I'm in the majority in deciding I'd prefer a Lexus to a Buick!
> > FWIW, my vehicle of choice is a Subaru Forester...about 23,000 with
> > what I want. A comparable GM product is at least $5K more expensive
> > without the quality of the Subaru all wheel drive.
> >
> > Nothing GM makes is a market leader, or particularly innovative. No
> > Camry...the Cobalt is a nice little car though, but you can get the
> > equivalent cheaper in a Nissan or a Hyundai, for example...no F150, no
> > Outback or Forester, no brand recognition like Lexus and Accura or
> > Mercedes.
> >
> > IMHO they will hang around for a while, but with the bulk of overhead
> > and debt they have, they are doomed.
>
> I've driven both and liked both, but the Buick is better priced imo.
> I'm not enamored of the Lexus being all that much better than a Buick,
> even if Consumer's Union is in love with all things foreign these days.
>
> And I like buying American. For me to buy a foreign car it has to be
> something unique and what I want. Most of them are uncomfortable to me.
>
> I like that American sedan ride!
>
> GM certainly does have problems with overhead and debt, and that is the
> bigger issue. Their cars and trucks are fine, imo.
There cars and trucks are mediocre at best. There's a reason Consumer
Union is enamored of foreign cars: they're mostly better value.
I see no virtue in "buying Canadian" if it means propping up companies
who are making shite.
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
Lloyd Parsons
Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I see no advantage from a
quality standpoint to the foreign cars over their US counterparts. You
and Consumer Union notwithstanding.
And since the US makers aren't making 'shite', no virtue is involved
either.
Dinosaur_Sr
I agree that the GM products are just as well made as any other. their
problem is the social engineering built into their overhead. No work
jobs, guaranteed jobs, and a variety of other obligations to state and
local govts that are probably equally absurd. Adds a lot of cost to
the product and limits the ability to innovate...gotta build those
"green" cars you know!
Alan Baker
Lloyd Parsons <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote:
Come on, Lloyd.
Compare the fit and finish in a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, etc. to
the "equivalent" products from the GM, Ford, and Chrysler. It is
patently obvious that the Japanese cars are better quality.
IS
must admit that they do have a product/price point that no other
manufacturers have. The Corvette provides leading edge performance at a
fraction of the price of other exotic sports cars. Yes the fit and finish
arguement may be there but you can't get 638 hp, 3.4 second 0-60, 11.3
second @ 131 mph quarter and a 205 mph top speed from any other vehicle at
that price.
http://jalopnik.com/396344/2009-corvette-zr1-pricing-released-638-hp-for-103300
"Dinosaur_Sr" <frostb...@att.net> wrote in message
news:365d3f0b-fa56-4e94...@b15g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Alan Baker
<454b5467-fad9-4d8f...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
You realize that you just adopted two completely contradictory
positions, right?
Dinosaur_Sr
> In article
> <454b5467-fad9-4d8f-8184-d42decc33...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Really? I said they are well made, but overpriced because of social
engineering built into their business practices.
Lloyd Parsons
Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
Having just been through new-car-itis, I did look at Honda, Nissan, Kia,
Hyundai and also Buick and Ford. When all the dust settled, I couldn't
find anything superior about the foreign makers cars as to fit and
finish and other than the Kia and Hyundai, no price advantage.
I didn't bother looking at Toyota because I won't deal with the local
dealer and Volkswagen was out because of no local dealership at all.
Frankly VW was at the top of my list when I was putting it together
until I found we had no dealer.
I ended up buying a 2009 Buick LaCrosse because it rides better than any
of the others, is quieter going down the road and had all the amenities
that I wanted at an attractive price. Also, every sedan of foreign mfg
I looked at lacked headroom, I felt constrained even though my head
wasn't touching the roof, it felt closing. That is something I've
noticed in almost all of them over the years.
When I took delivery there were no rattles, no misfitted items, no paint
irregularities, in short, no defects. After a few months that is still
true. I like OnStar which came with my Buick, I like the 'quiet tune'
ride and lack of extraneous noise.
And then there is the longevity. If you lived in the US, I'd say watch
around you while driving and notice how many old Buicks are on the road.
Seems like they are everywhere, some even still looking pretty damn good.
IF I were to go to a foreign car, it would have to be one of the much
more upscale than those you mentioned.
Or save a bit and go to Kia or Hyundai. But even with Hyundai, the
Genesis is more money than my LaCrosse. It is a sweet ride and deserves
consideration, and if you just have to have a foreign car, it should be
on the list, imo.
Lloyd Parsons
<454b5467-fad9-4d8f...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
So true, all the US mfgs suffer from those legacy problems. IF the
gov't hadn't bailed out GM, I think they would have gone bankrupt and
dumped the retirement and health care costs and re-formed without that
overhead sitting there.
Frankly, that the US mfgs can build great cars on par with anything they
compete with, at a price that is anywhere near competitive with all that
overhead in place is astounding!
For instance, the Hyundai Genesis is really a nice car. Rides very
well, is very quiet and well finished with good amenities. It also
starts at $32K. A Buick LaCrosse with comparable options will be about
the same price.
Dress them both out :
Hyundai - about $40K
Buick - about $38K
Those are list prices, I don't know what either would actually sell for.
At the lower end of the spectrum, the Kias and Hyundais can sure save
some money, but in the case of Buick, that's mostly 'cause Buick doesn't
make a car at that end. In small cars, I would probably lean towards a
Kia or Hyundai as they have some very nice ones for some very good
prices. And their quality is surprisingly good.
Good enough that they are growing while the others are stagnant or
declining.
But to do the same thing with a Toyota Avalon, which still isn't going
to be as good as the Buick (IMO), would cost more, and going Lexus which
would be more in line with the Buick, would cost much more. And that
holds true for the other basic lines vs their 'luxury' lines.
I wanted a what-passes-for-full-size-sedan these days, and the LaCrosse
was the best buy in both price and what you get for the money.
Lloyd Parsons
wrote:
> Agree with most of these statements and though I am not a GM supporter I
> must admit that they do have a product/price point that no other
> manufacturers have. The Corvette provides leading edge performance at a
> fraction of the price of other exotic sports cars. Yes the fit and finish
> arguement may be there but you can't get 638 hp, 3.4 second 0-60, 11.3
> second @ 131 mph quarter and a 205 mph top speed from any other vehicle at
> that price.
>
> http://jalopnik.com/396344/2009-corvette-zr1-pricing-released-638-hp-for-10330
> 0
The Corvette isn't my cup of tea, but you are spot on. That is one hell
of a lot of bang for your buck!
Alan Baker
Lloyd Parsons <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote:
That the lack of defects is so remarkable to you that it needs comment
says something about your expectations of the quality of domestic cars
right there.
I've had my Mazda Miata for more than 17 years of its 19 years of
existence. In the first *decade* of ownership, nothing at all went wrong
with it.
>
> And then there is the longevity. If you lived in the US, I'd say watch
> around you while driving and notice how many old Buicks are on the road.
> Seems like they are everywhere, some even still looking pretty damn good.
>
> IF I were to go to a foreign car, it would have to be one of the much
> more upscale than those you mentioned.
>
> Or save a bit and go to Kia or Hyundai. But even with Hyundai, the
> Genesis is more money than my LaCrosse. It is a sweet ride and deserves
> consideration, and if you just have to have a foreign car, it should be
> on the list, imo.
And yet you conclude that it is Consumers Union -- with no particular
axe to grind -- that is biased to prefer foreign cars and not you who is
biased towards domestic ones. Despite the fact that CU's conclusion are
routinely in accord with what the major car mags find....
Sorry, Lloyd. I don't buy it.
Lloyd Parsons
Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
Nope, only said because of your comments about fit and finish.
> I've had my Mazda Miata for more than 17 years of its 19 years of
> existence. In the first *decade* of ownership, nothing at all went wrong
> with it.
>
My old '86 Buick Riviera is still running around town, with over 275K
miles on it. The current owner hasn't had any major problems with it,
and very few minor ones, and while I owned it, it had no problems at all.
In those days, I was a salesman and traded off every couple of years
because the car was part of the sales... ;)
> >
> > And then there is the longevity. If you lived in the US, I'd say watch
> > around you while driving and notice how many old Buicks are on the road.
> > Seems like they are everywhere, some even still looking pretty damn good.
> >
> > IF I were to go to a foreign car, it would have to be one of the much
> > more upscale than those you mentioned.
> >
> > Or save a bit and go to Kia or Hyundai. But even with Hyundai, the
> > Genesis is more money than my LaCrosse. It is a sweet ride and deserves
> > consideration, and if you just have to have a foreign car, it should be
> > on the list, imo.
>
> And yet you conclude that it is Consumers Union -- with no particular
> axe to grind -- that is biased to prefer foreign cars and not you who is
> biased towards domestic ones. Despite the fact that CU's conclusion are
> routinely in accord with what the major car mags find....
>
> Sorry, Lloyd. I don't buy it.
OK, don't buy it. But go look for reviews and such on the Buick
LaCrosse. You'll find that it gets excellent reviews with one
exception, most think it is boring.
Boring in the sense that it is an excellent full-size sedan, but it
will last a very long time.
CU just isn't the place I go to find out about stuff. They often are
not very good at what they do and are resting on their laurels. Not
just in cars, but in AV equipment also.
For cars, when was the last time CU didn't say all foreign, all the
time? I can't remember it has been so long. They are hung up on the
old reputation that the Japanese brought to the market and haven't
really kept up with domestic makers very well, imo.
But you are free to buy just any old thing you want, it is your money.
Hor...@net.net
<an...@remailer.gabrix.ath.cx> wrote this crap:
>I say who needs Chrysler? Just a matter of time, and poof!
Where will I get parts and service for my Jeep Liberty?
Vote for Palin-Ahhhnold in 2012.
Hor...@Horvath.net
My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
ultimate power in the universe."
Clitlip
Actually, you mean Mommy's Jeep Liberty! She lets you go for a drive to
the store to get some bubble gum every time you are a good boy and take
out the trash for Mommy!
LOL!
________________________________________________________________________�
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Alan Baker
<4df68642-43ff-4c32...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
Sorry, but that's just saying that they aren't well made by other words.
If they were as well made as Japanese cars, you'd get the same quality
for the same price...
Lloyd Parsons
Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
utter drivel!
BAR
lloydp...@mac.com says...
>
> In article
> <7d96f36d-18c2-436c...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > > I say who needs Chrysler? ï¿œJust a matter of time, and poof!
> >
> > Jeeps have a market. Otherwise, nothing there. Same for GM, but they
> > don't have anything as useful as Jeep.
>
> I dunno about that. The new Buick Lacrosse is pretty darn nice and they
> are targeting the Lexus crowd in their ads. And reviews about it have
> been very positive. My local dealer let me drive one, I was impressed.
> Not impressed enough to want to trade my 2009 LaCrosse though! :)
It's still just a Buick.
> Of course, the Buick line still has the distinction of being a very good
> line with good maintenance and long life.
It is just a rebadged Chevy.
> When GM decided to dump some brands, I thought that was fine, but was a
> little surprised with at least one of the models that went by the
> wayside. The Pontiac Vibe was a very good seller for them, how hard
> would it have been to rebadge that?
GM has been foisting crap on gullible consumers for far too long.
Lloyd Parsons
BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:
> In article <lloydparsons-FFF2...@port80.individual.net>,
> lloydp...@mac.com says...
> >
> > In article
> > <7d96f36d-18c2-436c...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On Nov 4, 8:41�am, noauth <a...@remailer.gabrix.ath.cx> wrote:
> > > > I say who needs Chrysler? �Just a matter of time, and poof!
> > >
> > > Jeeps have a market. Otherwise, nothing there. Same for GM, but they
> > > don't have anything as useful as Jeep.
> >
> > I dunno about that. The new Buick Lacrosse is pretty darn nice and they
> > are targeting the Lexus crowd in their ads. And reviews about it have
> > been very positive. My local dealer let me drive one, I was impressed.
> > Not impressed enough to want to trade my 2009 LaCrosse though! :)
>
> It's still just a Buick.
>
Yep, it is still a Buick. And that's a good thing.
> > Of course, the Buick line still has the distinction of being a very good
> > line with good maintenance and long life.
>
> It is just a rebadged Chevy.
>
Nope.
> > When GM decided to dump some brands, I thought that was fine, but was a
> > little surprised with at least one of the models that went by the
> > wayside. The Pontiac Vibe was a very good seller for them, how hard
> > would it have been to rebadge that?
>
> GM has been foisting crap on gullible consumers for far too long.
Then don't buy them. Buy some rice burner for an inflated price with a
'luxury' tag on it.
Carbon
> I've had my Mazda Miata for more than 17 years of its 19 years of
> existence. In the first *decade* of ownership, nothing at all went
> wrong with it.
The Bose CD changer in my Miata jammed and was replaced under warranty.
The 17" stock Racing Hart wheels became non-round after whacking a
raised manhole cover. I don't really consider those to be Mazda defects
because they were both due to outside suppliers.
A speaker went on my wife's Protege5 but it was replaced under warranty.
I work with a fellow who has a 2002 GMC SUV of some kind and the
driver's side door hinge gave out. No accidents, no rust. It just
started to get wobbly and he had to yank on the armrest to get the door
to close all the way. Eventually the whole inside of the door came apart
and he had to spend a lot of money to get it put right. His other car is
a (IIRC) a 2005 Malibu and the armrest between the front seats has come
apart. He's re-attached it somehow but it wobbles all over the place. I
have never heard of failures like these with Japanese cars.
I love my Miata. So inexpensive to run, so much fun for squirting
through traffic.
BAR
nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:20:01 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>
> > I've had my Mazda Miata for more than 17 years of its 19 years of
> > existence. In the first *decade* of ownership, nothing at all went
> > wrong with it.
>
> The Bose CD changer in my Miata jammed and was replaced under warranty.
> The 17" stock Racing Hart wheels became non-round after whacking a
> raised manhole cover. I don't really consider those to be Mazda defects
> because they were both due to outside suppliers.
If you rolled off the lot with your new Mazda Miata with the Bose stereo
and the Racing Hart wheels it is Mazda's problem for picking lousy
vendors. Who manufactured the struts? It wasn't Mazda it was an outside
supplier.
> A speaker went on my wife's Protege5 but it was replaced under warranty.
Shouldn't you blame the speaker manufacturer and not Mazda? Mazda didn't
manufacture the speaker.
> I work with a fellow who has a 2002 GMC SUV of some kind and the
> driver's side door hinge gave out. No accidents, no rust. It just
> started to get wobbly and he had to yank on the armrest to get the door
> to close all the way. Eventually the whole inside of the door came apart
> and he had to spend a lot of money to get it put right. His other car is
> a (IIRC) a 2005 Malibu and the armrest between the front seats has come
> apart. He's re-attached it somehow but it wobbles all over the place. I
> have never heard of failures like these with Japanese cars.
I could have told you not to buy a GMC product. Hell, my wife bought one
before we got married. It was nothing but trouble. The worst was when
the steering column started to smoke.
> I love my Miata. So inexpensive to run, so much fun for squirting
> through traffic.
My F-150 and I will be looking for you.
BAR
>
> In article <MPG.255be5391...@news.giganews.com>,
> BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <lloydparsons-FFF2...@port80.individual.net>,
> > lloydp...@mac.com says...
> > >
> > > In article
> > > <7d96f36d-18c2-436c...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I say who needs Chrysler? ï¿œJust a matter of time, and poof!
> > > >
> > > > Jeeps have a market. Otherwise, nothing there. Same for GM, but they
> > > > don't have anything as useful as Jeep.
> > >
> > > I dunno about that. The new Buick Lacrosse is pretty darn nice and they
> > > are targeting the Lexus crowd in their ads. And reviews about it have
> > > been very positive. My local dealer let me drive one, I was impressed.
> > > Not impressed enough to want to trade my 2009 LaCrosse though! :)
> >
> > It's still just a Buick.
> >
> Yep, it is still a Buick. And that's a good thing.
If you say so.
>
> > > Of course, the Buick line still has the distinction of being a very good
> > > line with good maintenance and long life.
> >
> > It is just a rebadged Chevy.
> >
> Nope.
Yep.
>
> > > When GM decided to dump some brands, I thought that was fine, but was a
> > > little surprised with at least one of the models that went by the
> > > wayside. The Pontiac Vibe was a very good seller for them, how hard
> > > would it have been to rebadge that?
> >
> > GM has been foisting crap on gullible consumers for far too long.
>
> Then don't buy them. Buy some rice burner for an inflated price with a
> 'luxury' tag on it.
We currently own:
2001 Ford F-150 SuperScrew
2009 Jeep Patriot
2009 Nissan Versa
Lloyd Parsons
BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:
> In article <lloydparsons-F2D5...@port80.individual.net>,
> lloydp...@mac.com says...
> >
> > In article <MPG.255be5391...@news.giganews.com>,
> > BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <lloydparsons-FFF2...@port80.individual.net>,
> > > lloydp...@mac.com says...
> > > >
> > > > In article
> > > > <7d96f36d-18c2-436c...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > Dinosaur_Sr <frostb...@att.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Nov 4, 8:41�am, noauth <a...@remailer.gabrix.ath.cx> wrote:
> > > > > > I say who needs Chrysler? �Just a matter of time, and poof!
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeeps have a market. Otherwise, nothing there. Same for GM, but they
> > > > > don't have anything as useful as Jeep.
> > > >
> > > > I dunno about that. The new Buick Lacrosse is pretty darn nice and
> > > > they
> > > > are targeting the Lexus crowd in their ads. And reviews about it have
> > > > been very positive. My local dealer let me drive one, I was impressed.
> > > >
> > > > Not impressed enough to want to trade my 2009 LaCrosse though! :)
> > >
> > > It's still just a Buick.
> > >
> > Yep, it is still a Buick. And that's a good thing.
>
> If you say so.
>
>
> >
> > > > Of course, the Buick line still has the distinction of being a very
> > > > good
> > > > line with good maintenance and long life.
> > >
> > > It is just a rebadged Chevy.
> > >
> > Nope.
>
> Yep.
>
No more so than a Lexus is a rebadged Toyota... Or a Mercury is a
rebadged Ford. yada yada yada
>
> >
> > > > When GM decided to dump some brands, I thought that was fine, but was a
> > > > little surprised with at least one of the models that went by the
> > > > wayside. The Pontiac Vibe was a very good seller for them, how hard
> > > > would it have been to rebadge that?
> > >
> > > GM has been foisting crap on gullible consumers for far too long.
> >
> > Then don't buy them. Buy some rice burner for an inflated price with a
> > 'luxury' tag on it.
>
> We currently own:
>
> 2001 Ford F-150 SuperScrew
> 2009 Jeep Patriot
> 2009 Nissan Versa
I've had Ford in the past, liked them. Mustang, Pinto and a Country
Squire. But I don't like their sedans these days. Something just
doesn't sit right with me and them.
As to Chrysler product. I know lots that love them, but I had nothing
but problems from nearly day one with the 2 I owned. I'll never buy a
Chrysler product again,
dene
"Lloyd Parsons" <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:lloydparsons-CF81...@port80.individual.net...
We own an '04 Hyundai Senota (my wife's car), '02 GMC 2500 Sierra
(toyhauler), '96 Ford Explorer (kid car), and now a '97 Honda Del Sol (my
squirley gas sipping Targa top toy). I previously owned an '02 Explorer
Eddie Bauer which I sold to another son. Of all these vehicles, the
tinniest is the Hyundai, followed by the Honda. Rest are solid, sound,
reliable vehicles.
Worst vehicle I ever had was a brand new Dodge Dakota followed closely by a
Fiat Spyder. Best were a series of Volkswagons. Had a Beemer for a year
but it proved to be a Bavarian Manure Wagon.....underpowered and overpriced.
-Greg
assim...@borg.org
On 4-Nov-2009, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> Compare the fit and finish in a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru, etc. to
> the "equivalent" products from the GM, Ford, and Chrysler. It is
> patently obvious that the Japanese cars are better quality.
I've gotten over 700k out of my last 2 Fords (combined milage). Their
quality is 2nd to none in my experience.
--
bill-o
assim...@borg.org
On 4-Nov-2009, Lloyd Parsons <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > If they were as well made as Japanese cars, you'd get the same quality
> > for the same price...
>
> utter drivel!
indeed, higher demand = higher price, not necessarily higher quality
(perception of hq perhaps).
--
bill-o
Lloyd Parsons
assim...@borg.org wrote:
That perception is fostered well by the respective Japanese mfgs, but it
comes from the 80's when the American mfgs were producing cars not so
good.
Today's cars are so good, from all the mfgs. Take a look at the service
departments, very few cars in for service because they just don't need
all that TLC we used to take for granted.
BAR
lloydp...@mac.com says...
>
> In article <4af2826e$0$28760$882e...@news.ThunderNews.com>,
> assim...@borg.org wrote:
>
> > On 4-Nov-2009, Lloyd Parsons <lloydp...@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > If they were as well made as Japanese cars, you'd get the same quality
> > > > for the same price...
> > >
> > > utter drivel!
> >
> > indeed, higher demand = higher price, not necessarily higher quality
> > (perception of hq perhaps).
>
> That perception is fostered well by the respective Japanese mfgs, but it
> comes from the 80's when the American mfgs were producing cars not so
> good.
It comes from the 70's, 80's and 90's when Detroit was producing crap
and expecting the American (USA and Canadian) consumers to buy American.
> Today's cars are so good, from all the mfgs. Take a look at the service
> departments, very few cars in for service because they just don't need
> all that TLC we used to take for granted.
I refuse to use dealer service departments. Safety recalls are about the
only reason I would go to the dealer. I take my cars to George and have
him fix the problems. I know he isn't going to rip me off on the labor
or the parts.
Lloyd Parsons
BAR <sc...@you.com> wrote:
It has been so long (knock wood) since I've needed an actual repair on a
car that I've just used the dealer service. Price is the same and they
make a pretty good cup of coffee.
Around here, the good independent shops charge the same labor and parts
as the dealers, so there is no real advantage to using them imo.
The last repair was a master cylinder on my 1995 Riviera, which pooped
out with less than 20K on it.
As an aside, I was reading some reviews of the 2010 LaCrosse and one of
them made me laugh. They felt the car would be better with more power
and suggested a Turbo-charged version. While that may be true, Buicks
are smooth, not jerky, no turbo please!
A Buick with a turbo? LOL! Buick has used Superchargers in the past
because it is smooth power, but never a Turbo that I can recall.
Moderate
"dene" <de...@remove.ipns.com> wrote in message
news:7lf4i7F...@mid.individual.net...
You bought the wrong Beemer. The BMW's I have driven were like rockets on
rails.
MNMikeW
<assim...@borg.org> wrote in message
news:4af281ba$0$28790$882e...@news.ThunderNews.com...
My last Ford went through 2 engines, 3 rearends, 1 frontend. Though it was
completely my fault. :-) Mud bogging will do that to a truck. My 2000 Dodge
Ram has been a great truck. Just turned over 172,000 mi this week. I'd buy
another Ram.
Dinosaur_Sr
Making things up again? What I said is pretty clear. The US cars are
well made, but overpriced because of social engineering built into the
cost. I suppose I could say that 1000X and you would never get it
though.
Dinosaur_Sr
> > We currently own:
>
> > 2001 Ford F-150 SuperScrew
> > 2009 Jeep Patriot
> > 2009 Nissan Versa
>
> I've had Ford in the past, liked them. Mustang, Pinto and a Country
> Squire. But I don't like their sedans these days. Something just
> doesn't sit right with me and them.
I bought a Ford Ranger in late 2001, and had no problems with it.
Service has consisted of oil changes and a new thermostat.
I bought a Chevy Cobalt in late 2005, and service has consisted of oil
changes.
I used to buy Toyotas, but the service costs were too high for me.
After about 100,000 miles these vehicles will need service and Toyota
greatly restricts service and parts availability, and I prefer to not
go to the dealers because of book rate issues, and I would prefer OEM
parts, not re manufactured parts. With Ford and GM the local garage
can repair my cars (like they did with my Ford Escort) using OEM parts
and I pay for the hours they work. With Toyota, if I want OEM parts I
have to go to the dealers and pay book rates for labour. If I want the
local garage to fix my Toyota, I have to go with re manufactured
parts, and I don't trust them because they have failed me in the past.
OEM parts have never failed me other than wearing out well after their
advertised life expectancy.
I like the Subaru Forester because of the all wheel drive and the fact
it is a pretty basic vehicle, and will be a good choice for driving
around in eastern Kentucky. I expect service to cost an arm and a leg
though.
BAR
says...
I blewout my CV joints on my 1988 Honda Prelude when I took it pseudo 4
wheeling. After 4 years and 140,000 miles I got rid of it and bought a
1992 Ford Ranger 4X2.
Hor...@net.net
this crap:
>We own an '04 Hyundai Senota (my wife's car), '02 GMC 2500 Sierra
>(toyhauler), '96 Ford Explorer (kid car), and now a '97 Honda Del Sol (my
>squirley gas sipping Targa top toy). I previously owned an '02 Explorer
>Eddie Bauer which I sold to another son. Of all these vehicles, the
>tinniest is the Hyundai, followed by the Honda. Rest are solid, sound,
>reliable vehicles.
>
>Worst vehicle I ever had was a brand new Dodge Dakota followed closely by a
>Fiat Spyder. Best were a series of Volkswagons. Had a Beemer for a year
>but it proved to be a Bavarian Manure Wagon.....underpowered and overpriced.
I'm sure I have owned or rented more vehicles than anyone here. The
worst were a Plymouth Satellite, a Toyota Camry, and by far the worst
was a Ford Focus. I called it a "Ford Fuckass." I hated everything
about that car. Everytime I see one on the road i laugh to myself and
wonder what the poor dumbass did to deserve it.
The best were a Lincoln Mark IV Town Car, a Chevy Nova. a Chevy
Kingswood Station Wagon, (I had a set of golf clubs stolen out of it,)
a Volkswagen, and the very best car I ever owned, by a huge margin was
a 1973 Cadillac Eldorado. Now that's leadership.
Currently the best vehicle to drive is the golf cart at the course.
Now that's leadership also.
Carbon
> In article <4af23a5f$0$4955$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
> nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>
>> through traffic.
>
> My F-150 and I will be looking for you.
My neighbor has an F150 that he has had raised another 6" or so. It is
bordering on undriveable. Maybe he has a small penis or something.
BAR
nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
I have an F-150 SuperCrew because it has 4 doors and can comfortably
hold my wife, two daughters and two dogs and a whole bunch of stuff in
the back when we go on road trips. Or, when I drive the guys to the golf
course, 4 men and 4 golf bags and one parking spot. Plus you get a seat
to sit on while you put your golf shoes on.
MNMikeW
"Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4af37d21$0$4946$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
Not all roads are paved city boy!
Alan Baker
"MNMikeW" <MNMi...@aol.com> wrote:
And lack of paving means you need a 6" lift on a vehicle that already
has lots and lots of ground clearance?
bkn...@conramp.net
wrote:
>In article <7lqrk2F...@mid.individual.net>,
> "MNMikeW" <MNMi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> "Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:4af37d21$0$4946$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>> > On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:54:58 -0500, BAR wrote:
>> >> In article <4af23a5f$0$4955$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
>> >> nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>> >>
>> >>> I love my Miata. So inexpensive to run, so much fun for squirting
>> >>> through traffic.
>> >>
>> >> My F-150 and I will be looking for you.
>> >
>> > My neighbor has an F150 that he has had raised another 6" or so. It is
>> > bordering on undriveable. Maybe he has a small penis or something.
>>
>> Not all roads are paved city boy!
>
>And lack of paving means you need a 6" lift on a vehicle that already
>has lots and lots of ground clearance?
Guys like this in Texas sometimes have rifles mounted in their rear
windows, wear ten-gallon hats, boots, big belt buckles, have two Pit
Bulls that they've made mean, and are stock boys at Wal-Mart.
BK
MNMikeW
"Alan Baker" <alang...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:alangbaker-A018F...@news.shawcable.com...
> In article <7lqrk2F...@mid.individual.net>,
> "MNMikeW" <MNMi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> "Carbon" <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:4af37d21$0$4946$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
>> > On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 21:54:58 -0500, BAR wrote:
>> >> In article <4af23a5f$0$4955$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com>,
>> >> nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
>> >>
>> >>> I love my Miata. So inexpensive to run, so much fun for squirting
>> >>> through traffic.
>> >>
>> >> My F-150 and I will be looking for you.
>> >
>> > My neighbor has an F150 that he has had raised another 6" or so. It is
>> > bordering on undriveable. Maybe he has a small penis or something.
>>
>> Not all roads are paved city boy!
>
> And lack of paving means you need a 6" lift on a vehicle that already
> has lots and lots of ground clearance?
>
clearance. The lift is not what gives you ground clearance anyway.
Alan Baker
"MNMikeW" <MNMi...@aol.com> wrote:
Really?
What does it do, then?
MNMikeW
improves suspension travel for said larger tires and wheels. You can also
install a body lift that will allow larger tires as well but without the
improved suspension. Typically both are imployed. My last mud machine had a
4" suspension lift with a 3" body lift and 39" Super Swampers.
Your axles are the lowest part of your undercarriage typically. And the only
way to raise those are with bigger tires/wheels.
Carbon
Acts as a handy penis extension device for the chronically insecure. At
least that's what it seems to do for the belt-buckle cowboy next door.
Lord knows that truck never goes off road.
MNMikeW
We call them tar babies up here.
BAR
says...
I'm surprised the geniuses, Baker specifically, didn't figure that one
out on their own.
BAR
nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com says...
Freedom and liberty are great things aren't they! You get to drive what
you want and your neighbor gets to drive what he wants.
Carbon
Freedom and liberty? The reality is that years ago US automakers lobbied
the government for high tariffs for foreign trucks and SUVs, and then
again to exempt them from being covered under CAFE. By not having to
compete on a level playing field the US automakers made billions, but at
the cost of making themselves financially dependent on profits from
these vehicles. Not to mention being being unprepared to compete in
other segments when rising gas prices tanked demand for larger vehicles.
Moderate
US automakers have the Freedom and Liberty to fail, until Obama took that
right away.
bkn...@conramp.net
wrote:
>US automakers have the Freedom and Liberty to fail, until Obama took that
>right away.
>
Obviously Chrysler and GM have the right to fail. Read something
other than World Net Daily.
BK
MNMikeW
Lookup how many pickups were bought with the Cash for Clunkers program.
Alan Baker
"Moderate" <no_spam_@no_mail.com> wrote:
Really?
Tell that to Lee Ioccoca...
bkn...@conramp.net
wrote:
>In article <4b016368$0$5321$bbae...@news.suddenlink.net>,
> "Moderate" <no_spam_@no_mail.com> wrote:
Does this numbskull ever think about what he's posting before clicking
on "send"?
BK
Alan Baker
bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
I've yet to see any evidence of it, no.
assim...@borg.org
On 16-Nov-2009, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> > US automakers have the Freedom and Liberty to fail, until Obama took
> > that
> > right away.
>
> Really?
>
> Tell that to Lee Ioccoca...
Another rent seeker, who, in spite of doing a great job with little, could
not seem to forstall the inevitable, so the gov't rides to the rescue
again....
--
bill-o
bkn...@conramp.net
That wasn't the issue Bill. Try to make sense out of the sentence by
"Moderate" above. First you have to get the tense right. Then it
still doesn't work.
BK
Corky's Nemesis
news:tto2g5t8ogokl35hu...@4ax.com...
Corky's Nemesis
<bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
news:te43g59iu856sd3m6...@4ax.com...
Corky's Nemesis
news:3b83g5l43v93kcn4r...@4ax.com...
BigSlicer
Amazing how many here forget that this is a golf newsgroup.
Why discuss Chrysler in a group called REC SPORT GOLF?
The off topic posters have ruined it for those that want to discuss golf.
All the good posters gone.
-----�
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
bkn...@conramp.net
That sure tells all about your IQ.
BK