Golfsmith Tour Model IIs?
Paul Bardak
would like to know if anyone is playing them now? I will be building
the complete set of irons (1-PW, SW, LW) if I do. I would appreciate
any experiences that any of you may have with these irons. Could you
also include your handicap and comments about your game (ie. ball
trajectory tendencies), so I can get a feel for your game and try to
compare it to mine for a better assessment of the clubs.
Thanks in advance,
Paul 3.9 index.
Bill Willis
I built a set of these clubs with R fles "Flex Flow" shafts, and I
found them to be too heavy for a regular flex, so I gave them to my wife.
She is able to get the ball in the air well with them, and I even played
with them a good bit.
I bought a set of Pings after I gave my wife the copies, and there
isn't a lot of difference, but there are subtle ones, such as a better
weight distribution on the Pings. (I've got the 1990 model Ping Eye II's,
which don't have the scooped out sole and top line.)
William L. (Bill) Willis, P. E. | e-mail: wil...@coe-nw.clemson.edu
Clemson University | FAX: (803) 656 - 0795
Division of Engineering Services | voice: (803) 656 - 5550
121 Freeman Hall | "I has seen the enemy, and he is us."
Clemson, SC 29634 - 0917 | Pogo
Jason Chodora
: I am considering building a set of Golfsmith Tour Model II irons and
I have a set of these that I've played for the last several years. I
bought them through a local club maker not Golfsmith, but I'm pretty
sure they are the same clubs.
I was about an 18 when I got them, and I'm a 10 now. I would classify
them as "game improvement" irons. They are strongly peripherally
weighted. They are very forgiving as would expect, but the short irons
don't have as much feel as I would like. I am currently shopping around
for a new set of forged irons to get more feel. The Tour Model's also
have a lot of weight in the sole, so they hit the ball very high. Mine
have some variety of "square" grooves, so they chew up balata balls real
quick.
It seems to me a low handicapper should be looking for a set of clubs
that has more feel. It's a little tough around the greens with the Tour
Model's. Why are you looking at cast clubs and not blades??? These
days they are making a lot of clubs that are forged blades with a little
perimeter weighting (i.e. Hogan Edges, Wilson Staff Progressives, etc.)
That seems like the club to me for the low handicapper.
Any thoughts ???
Jason Chodora
jas...@sr.hp.com
Dave Tutelman
>Paul Bardak (BARDAKPJ%WS0...@SNYBUFVA.CS.SNYBUF.EDU) wrote:
>
>I have a set of these that I've played for the last several years. I
>bought them through a local club maker not Golfsmith, but I'm pretty
>sure they are the same clubs.
Careful about this. There are several different companies making clubheads
called Tour Model II and III. They look similar, but are quite distinct
in weight, weight distribution, grooves, etc.
>... Mine
>have some variety of "square" grooves, so they chew up balata balls real
>quick.
The Golfsmith Tour Model II has V-grooves; you can't get them with any
form of square grooves. Yours were probably not Golfsmith.
>It seems to me a low handicapper should be looking for a set of clubs
>that has more feel. It's a little tough around the greens with the Tour
>Model's. Why are you looking at cast clubs and not blades??? These
>days they are making a lot of clubs that are forged blades with a little
>perimeter weighting (i.e. Hogan Edges, Wilson Staff Progressives, etc.)
>That seems like the club to me for the low handicapper.
>
>Any thoughts ???
Glad you asked! This was discussed last year; let me try to summarize
what I got from the discussion.
From a series of controlled experiments with professional golfers, it was
determined that:
- Feel is not affected by forged vs. cast.
- Feel is not affected by carbon steel vs. stainless steel.
- Feel is much affected by perimeter weighting vs. muscleback.
Because the vast majority of perimeter-weighted clubs are cast stainless,
and perimeter weighting reduces feel as it increases forgivingness, people
have learned to mentally associate forged with feel. That's why Hogan can
charge big bucks for forged clubs with cavity backs. But there's no free
ride. You can't mess with physics. Anything that makes a club more
forgiving (that is, minimize the ball-flight consequences of a mis-hit)
will reduce feel (that is, minimize the tactile consequences of a mis-hit).
Hogan MAY be a good tradeoff of feel and forgivingness for a low handicapper
(or it may not) but it doesn't combine "the feel of forged and the forgivigness
of perimeter weighting" because there's no such thing as the feel of forged.
Just my $.02.
Dave
Jason Chodora
: From a series of controlled experiments with professional golfers, it was
: determined that:
: - Feel is not affected by forged vs. cast.
: - Feel is not affected by carbon steel vs. stainless steel.
: - Feel is much affected by perimeter weighting vs. muscleback.
Hmmmmm. Interesting stuff. Glad you posted it.
: Because the vast majority of perimeter-weighted clubs are cast stainless,
: and perimeter weighting reduces feel as it increases forgivingness, people
: have learned to mentally associate forged with feel. That's why Hogan can
: charge big bucks for forged clubs with cavity backs. But there's no free
: ride. You can't mess with physics. Anything that makes a club more
: forgiving (that is, minimize the ball-flight consequences of a mis-hit)
: will reduce feel (that is, minimize the tactile consequences of a mis-hit).
: Hogan MAY be a good tradeoff of feel and forgivingness for a low handicapper
:(or it may not) but it doesn't combine "the feel of forged and the forgivigness
: of perimeter weighting" because there's no such thing as the feel of forged.
The tradeoff that sounds useful to be with some of today's clubs (i.e.
Wilson Staff Progressive) is the long irons having perimeter weighting
and the shorter irons having more of a muscle-back design. The long
irons are forgiving and the short irons have feel. I hit some of these
at a local pro shop. I was expecting the long and short irons to feel
like totally different clubs, with some drastic change happening around
the 6-7-8 irons. In fact they felt like a pretty nice set of clubs all
around. The transition from perimeter weighting to sort-of muscle-back
was very gradual. Plus, they have the look of blades (no offset,
"forged" look, etc.) I love the way they line up for pitches, chips,
etc. I'd love to get them out on the course. This seems like a solid
idea to me...any opinions ??
: Just my $.02.
: Dave
No, this was some good stuff. I'll give it at least $.05 !
Jason
Dave Tutelman
>Dave Tutelman (da...@cbnewsj.cb.att.com) wrote:
>
>: - Feel is not affected by forged vs. cast.
>: - Feel is not affected by carbon steel vs. stainless steel.
>: - Feel is much affected by perimeter weighting vs. muscleback.
>
>: forgiving (that is, minimize the ball-flight consequences of a mis-hit)
>: will reduce feel (that is, minimize the tactile consequences of a mis-hit).
>: Hogan MAY be a good tradeoff of feel and forgivingness for a low handicapper
>:(or it may not) but it doesn't combine "the feel of forged and the forgivigness
>: of perimeter weighting" because there's no such thing as the feel of forged.
>
>The tradeoff that sounds useful to be with some of today's clubs (i.e.
>Wilson Staff Progressive) is the long irons having perimeter weighting
>and the shorter irons having more of a muscle-back design. The long
>irons are forgiving and the short irons have feel. I hit some of these
>.... The transition from perimeter weighting to sort-of muscle-back
>was very gradual.
> [ more deleted. Basically, Jason really liked them. ]
I heartily endorse the idea, though I haven't tried it yet myself.
It certainly makes sense, and I'm glad to hear your firsthand endorsement.
You don't have to go to the ready-made Wilsons to try out the concept.
Several of the component vendors have models based on it:
- Trident S3 irons from Pro-Swing.
- Ellip-Tech irons (Ed Sneed design) from GolfWorks.
- Genesis II irons from Dynacraft.
- Acer TWB (Transitional Weight Balance) from Hireko or GolfMasters.
(This is probably the one I'd get if I were about to try it.)
All of these clubs have a cavity-back 2-iron and a straight (or flanged)
blade for the 9 and wedges, with the cavity getting smaller or shallower
as the club gets shorter.
Dynacraft also has a set for those who still think it's material rather
than weight distribution that makes the difference. Their Vari-Steel irons
have different materials for different clubs:
1-4 Cast 17-4 Stainless (hardest).
5-7 Cast 431 Stainless (still pretty hard).
8-SW Cast 1030 Carbon Steel (softest, but NOT forged).
If any of you clubmakers out there try these out, please post your results.
Dave