Fly/Roll distance in chipping
Seungho Cha
o
o o
o o o
o o o o o oooooooooooooooooooo
|--------fly--------|-------------roll--------------|
The percentage described here is fly / (fly + roll).
4 iron: 10 %
6 iron: 25 %
8 iron: 40 %
9 iron: 50 %
PW: 60 %
SW: 75 %
The above measure was quoted from "Natural Golf" by Seve, without permission.
- Seungho
Gv Fragante
Another way of measuring the carry/roll ratio for chipping is this:
Carry/Roll Ratio
SW : 1:1
PW : 1:2
9-I: 1:3
8-I: 1:4
7-I: 1:5
6-I: 1:6
5-I: 1:7
4-I: 1:8
In general, a SW will roll the same length as it will carry. A PW will roll
twice longer than its carry. A 9-iron will roll thrice longer than its
carry, etc.
An easier way to remember the chart is to subtract the iron number from 12 to
get the roll ratio.
For example, to determine the roll ratio for a 7 iron, 12 - 7 = 5. Therefore,
carry/roll ratio for 7-iron is 1:5.
Hope this helps.
George MacDougall - (705)748-1602
chipping. What speed of green are they assuming? It seems to me that the
distance flown is constant but the distance rolled is highly dependent on the
speed of the green.
Advice I have heard/read/whatever and utilize is to practice chipping at
spots/baskets/whatever with a very few clubs and use this info on the course.
I use my 7 and my sand wedge for most chips. I look at the green pick a shape
and a landing spot and then use the club to fit the shape and distance.
This burdens the golfer with developing a feel for chips with only 2 clubs. I
would find it very difficult to hit my spots with every iron in my bag. This
could of course be limitations in my game and not a reflection on the
soundness of the "use all your clubs" strategy.
my $0.02
George MacDougall
gmacd...@trentu.ca
Trent University - Computer Services Department - (705) 748-1602
Peterborough, Ontario - K9J 6S2
Ron Birnbaum
|> In <l800nb...@csgo.usc.edu> c...@csgo.usc.edu (Seungho Cha) writes:
|>
|> Another way of measuring the carry/roll ratio for chipping is this:
|>
|> Carry/Roll Ratio
|>
|> SW : 1:1
|> PW : 1:2
|> 9-I: 1:3
|> 8-I: 1:4
|> 7-I: 1:5
|> 6-I: 1:6
|> 5-I: 1:7
|> 4-I: 1:8
But this doesn't agree with the previous posting:
The percentage described here is fly / (fly + roll).
4 iron: 10 %
6 iron: 25 %
8 iron: 40 %
9 iron: 50 %
PW: 60 %
SW: 75 %
So - does a 9 iron have an equal air/roll ratio or is it 1:3?? And how about
the other clubs? Seems like these systems aren't all that close!
-Ron
|>
|> An easier way to remember the chart is to subtract the iron number from 12 to
|> get the roll ratio.
|>
|> For example, to determine the roll ratio for a 7 iron, 12 - 7 = 5. Therefore,
|> carry/roll ratio for 7-iron is 1:5.
Not according to the previous poster!
-Ron
|>
|> Hope this helps.
Gv Fragante
>But this doesn't agree with the previous posting:
Well, I never intended the chart I posted to agree with yours. I posted it as
an alternative. There isn't only one way to chip. SOme people will just use one
club for chipping and in this case our charts are useless. Some people prefer
a flying chip that stops short. Some people prefer a rolling chip that flies
just enough to carry the fringe of the green and rolls to the pin. The chart I
posted is best suited to the last example. BTW, I did not make up this
chart - actually copied it (without permission) from a golf tip magazine
(forgot the name).
I find that the carry/roll ratio is very uniform - much like the 10-20 yard
difference between irons when hitting full shots. I prefer this chart because
it is easier to calculate the carry/roll - it only involves subtration from a
constant (12).
Someone asked about how chipping charts are applied to fast/slow greens. Well,
just like hitting with the wind, you have to make some adjustments - like
underclub (i.e. - use a shorter club). I guess same can be said for chipping.
You want to minimize the roll, so use a club that will promote less roll, the
fast greens will compensate for that.
Mark P. Diamond
>
>Advice I have heard/read/whatever and utilize is to practice chipping at
>spots/baskets/whatever with a very few clubs and use this info on the course.
>I use my 7 and my sand wedge for most chips. I look at the green pick a shape
>and a landing spot and then use the club to fit the shape and distance.
>
>This burdens the golfer with developing a feel for chips with only 2 clubs. I
>would find it very difficult to hit my spots with every iron in my bag. This
>could of course be limitations in my game and not a reflection on the
>soundness of the "use all your clubs" strategy.
>
I used to subscribe to the only-chip-with-two-clubs strategy, but recently
have changed to the chip-with--almost-all-clubs-in-the-bag strategy, and
have seen a tremendous improvement in my chipping. I know the
exact fly and roll for my clubs (you should measure yours on the
practice green, because everyones distances are slightly different).
Now when I chip I pick a spot say two yards from the fringe, and aim
at that spot. It is much easier for me to hit a spot three yards
away with a variety of clubs than a spot six yards away with one
or two clubs. I may get less accuracy hitting my "spot" with a ay a six iron
instead of a wedge, but since I'm always flying the ball less distance overall
I'm much more accurate to the hole. This is especially true for the
20 yard chips across the green using say a five iron.
What if the green is fast? What if the green is down or up a slope? I simply
go up or down a club - the chipping equivalent of playing in wind.
By selecting the right club I have taken a lot of the guess work out, and
made the shot a lot easier. And best of all, I'm up and down 50-60% of
the time now, instead of 20-30% when I was using only two clubs.
Mark <>
Gavin F Nicoll SS91
I find myself some what confused over this article. How can a sand
iron roll the same length as its flight in the air ?? I Have yet
to hit a sand wedge 90 yards and watch it roll another 90 yards.
Surely the sand, and to that matter down to 7/8, irons are
designed to roll minimal distances, ie a few yards at top. If this
chart was true (doubtful) it would make a pure guess and hope for
a good bounce type of game.
Here is, what I would call, a more realistic guide
IRON CARRY ROLL
SW 90yrds < 1yrd
PW 120yrds 2-3yrds
9I 140yrds 5yrds
8I 155yrds 7yrds
7I 170yrds 9yrds
6I 180yrds 15yrds
5I 190yrds 20yrds
4I 200yrds 25yrds
3I 215yrds 30yrds
As for the 1-2 irons I need to buy them first
--
**********************************************************
* Gavin Nicoll * Advertising space is *
* gni...@cs.strath.ac.uk * currently available *
**********************************************************
Glenn Turk P925
|> Someone asked about how chipping charts are applied to fast/slow greens. Well,
|> just like hitting with the wind, you have to make some adjustments - like
|> underclub (i.e. - use a shorter club). I guess same can be said for chipping.
|> You want to minimize the roll, so use a club that will promote less roll, the
|> fast greens will compensate for that.
I would have to disagree with the 'minimize your roll' statement,
PARTICULARLY on fast greens. IMHO, it is better to get the ball rolling
as soon as possible, i.e. try to maximize the % of roll, vs. Fly.
READ the chip, as you would a putt. Get the ball rolling quickly and
let the slope of the green feed it to the hole. This has the inherent
advantage of effectively bringing your target closer to you. You are
chipping to a spot only a few feet in front of you, rather than trying
to hit a high, arcing flop shot several yards away. It also reduces
the effect of sidespin on the shot.
By the way, I hit 90% of my chips within 30 yds of the green with a PW,
adjusting the loft by moving my hands forward/back at address. I use
an arms/shoulders stroke, similar to the putt. I've also found that
a very open stance helps to keep the hips/legs still, reducing the
chances of hitting it fat and chunking it.
:-)
[Anybody know where else but r.s.g. that you can get lessons for $.02?]
:-)
--
Glenn R. Turk
email: gt...@brtph617.bnr.ca
(919)991-8593 ESN 294-8593
Bell Northern Research, RTP, NC
Dan Dudek,DDXD,
>
>I find myself some what confused over this article. How can a sand
>iron roll the same length as its flight in the air ?? I Have yet
>to hit a sand wedge 90 yards and watch it roll another 90 yards.
>Surely the sand, and to that matter down to 7/8, irons are
>designed to roll minimal distances, ie a few yards at top. If this
>chart was true (doubtful) it would make a pure guess and hope for
>a good bounce type of game.
Oh, come on... We are talking about CHIPPING!!! Of course these will not
work for full out swings. We went through that round of numbers last week.
This is for when you are choking up on the club, and are planning to chip
the ball up to the green. Shame on you... How could you be so silly???
Actually, I was thinking the same thing when I first read the post, but
they are talking about short chip shots, so then it makes sense. Of course,
I still use the SW no matter what, which has its pros and cons. Pro being
that I have a very good feel for this club, since I use it all the time.
Con being all of the things that the ntters are talking about different
situations... I'll stick to my sand wedge, and try to hit the damn greens
with my approach shots... 8>)
---
===========================================================================
| ____ ____ _____ __ __ _______ |
| \ \ / / / _ \ | | | | |___ / Jim Vahsen |
| \ \/ / / /_\ \ | |___| | / / ji...@dadd.ti.com |
| \ / / /___\ \ | ___ | / / Texas Instruments |
| \ / | | | | | | | | / /__ ASIC CAD GROUP |
| \__/ |__| |__| |__| |__| |______| (214)997-3607 |
| |
| Samuel Adams - Brewer, Patriot. (Damn Fine American Beer) |
===========================================================================
Gv Fragante
>I find myself some what confused over this article. How can a sand
>iron roll the same length as its flight in the air ?? I Have yet
>to hit a sand wedge 90 yards and watch it roll another 90 yards.
>Surely the sand, and to that matter down to 7/8, irons are
>designed to roll minimal distances, ie a few yards at top. If this
>chart was true (doubtful) it would make a pure guess and hope for
>a good bounce type of game.
The chart I posted is for chipping only and not for full shots. By chipping,
I mean short strokes that are usually executed at greenside (maximum of 1/4
the backswing of a full shot).
Gv Fragante
>I would have to disagree with the 'minimize your roll' statement,
>PARTICULARLY on fast greens. IMHO, it is better to get the ball rolling
>as soon as possible, i.e. try to maximize the % of roll, vs. Fly.
I'm sorry if my statement caused some confusion. Yes, agree that it is best to
get the ball rolling as soon as possible. What I meant to say in my statement
was to select a higher # club that will cause less roll to offset the fast
greens. For instance, if the calculated carry/roll ratio tells us to use a
7-iron, I would use an 8-iron or 9-iron if the greens are fast. This way,
I would still be able to carry the fringe enough, yet have sufficient roll
aided by the fast greens to reach the pin.
Mike Nelson
>In article <fragante....@unixg.ubc.ca> frag...@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante) writes:
>> Carry/Roll Ratio
>>
>>SW : 1:1
>>PW : 1:2
>>9-I: 1:3
>>8-I: 1:4
>>7-I: 1:5
>>6-I: 1:6
>>5-I: 1:7
>>4-I: 1:8
>>
>>In general, a SW will roll the same length as it will carry. A PW will roll
>>twice longer than its carry. A 9-iron will roll thrice longer than its
>>carry, etc.
>>
>
>I find myself some what confused over this article. How can a sand
>iron roll the same length as its flight in the air ?? I Have yet
>to hit a sand wedge 90 yards and watch it roll another 90 yards.
>Surely the sand, and to that matter down to 7/8, irons are
>designed to roll minimal distances, ie a few yards at top. If this
>chart was true (doubtful) it would make a pure guess and hope for
>a good bounce type of game.
>
>Here is, what I would call, a more realistic guide
>
>IRON CARRY ROLL
>
>SW 90yrds < 1yrd
>PW 120yrds 2-3yrds
>9I 140yrds 5yrds
>8I 155yrds 7yrds
>7I 170yrds 9yrds
>6I 180yrds 15yrds
>5I 190yrds 20yrds
>4I 200yrds 25yrds
>3I 215yrds 30yrds
>
>As for the 1-2 irons I need to buy them first
>
>--
>**********************************************************
>* Gavin Nicoll * Advertising space is *
>* gni...@cs.strath.ac.uk * currently available *
>**********************************************************
Man, I wish I could chip from 245 yards out with a 3 iron.
One question though; Do you leave the stick in or out?
8-)
Mike N.
Bob Menendez - 235-3146
many variables such as hand position relative to the ball, ball position
relative to your body, swing plane, etc.
Try chipping with a 9 iron and move the ball back and forth in your stance.
Then move your hands forward or back. Then chip with a putter stroke,
then with a writsy one. You will find that the fly/roll changes a LOT!
My solution is to develop your own chart for how YOU hit the ball.
If you can get the ball close by using just a 7 iron, then do it.
If you find it helps to use different clubs for different distances, then
do that.
--
:-)
mene...@swbatl.sbc.com
NOTICE:
Craig Bishop
>There is no magic formula or ratio for fly/roll distance. There are too
>many variables such as hand position relative to the ball, ball position
>relative to your body, swing plane, etc.
This is totally correct.
More important than anything that has been said about this so
far is that what ever you decide to do you must practice it and
here is the real important part.
You must trust it.
Only if you trust it and relax your mind so that the chip
becomes all feel can you get it close consistently. Thinking
things like: Will this club carry it far enough? How hard
should I hit it? etc. etc. we have all done it. These things
cause jerky movements in the chipping action and bad chips.
Find something that works for you then trust it. That combined
with the following practice routine works better than anything I
have ever tried.
We have a chipping green on a small slope with three holes
dispersed around the green. I start at the bottom of the
chipping green with three balls. I chip each of the three balls
to different holes, this gives you touch because each chip is a
different distance. Then I take putter and try to hole each chip
in it's respective hole. If I make all three I move to the
corner of the chipping green and repeat the previous exercise. I
do this for 8 points around the chipping green. So I am getting
practise with side hills and down hills as well. When you start
to make a few in a row the pressure builds up as well? This helps
your putting also.
The best I have managed is is to make 23 out of 24, missing 1
out of 3 on the last point of the green. I have done this
twice. One day I will get all 24.
--
Craig Bishop Information Systems Division
Email: c...@gdwb.OZ.AU Geelong & District Water Board
Phone: +61 52 262506 61-67 Ryrie St Geelong
Fax: +61 52 218236 Victoria 3220 Australia