Opinions on Swing Thoughts
Larry St. Regis
Jim McLean's 8 points theory.
I tend to dislike McLean's teaching approach, but I do agree with his
philosophy that hitting certain points in your swing correctly will greatly
assist in a successful swing. I don't "chop" my swing up, so much, as I try
to pay attention to where I am at these points during range sessions.
My brother, on the other hand, has developed an entire teaching principle
based on one point in the swing -- that point in your follow through where
your club is at waist level.
His contention is this:
If, when the club is fully extended at waist level in your follow through,
you are pointing the club down the target line, you will achieve your
directional intent. You will neither slice nor hook despite what you did in
the backswing.
His basis was the swings of Furyk, Garcia, Trevino and Palmer. Each of them
hit wildly diverse points in their backswing -- to the point of sometimes
looking downright goofy! -- yet each of them hits the same point on their
follow through: full extension down the target line at waist high.
According to him, being over the top or radically inside on your downswing
certainly doesn't help you achieve the goal, but it can be overcome.
McLean's eight points merely help you achieve that critical point.
We tried it last night in my backyard driving cage. Although we couldn't
obviously tell the totality of the ball flight, it was apparent that if you
hit that point in the swing correctly, your ball was starting out correctly.
What are the swing guru thoughts on this?
Larry S
--
Handicap?! GOLF ... of course!!
Glfnaz
"Larry St. Regis" <lstregis@DONT_SPAM_HEREi4putt.com> wrote in message
news:YE7Zb.14826$Vq....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> Last night, my bro' the pro and I had a rather heated discussion regarding
> Jim McLean's 8 points theory.
>
> If, when the club is fully extended at waist level in your follow through,
> you are pointing the club down the target line, you will achieve your
> directional intent. You will neither slice nor hook despite what you did
in
> the backswing.
His thesis is great for dealing with path and plane issues.
But he doesn't account for face angle. Or at least your brief description of
it didn't.
>
> His basis was the swings of Furyk, Garcia, Trevino and Palmer. Each of
them
> hit wildly diverse points in their backswing -- to the point of sometimes
> looking downright goofy! -- yet each of them hits the same point on their
> follow through: full extension down the target line at waist high.
His idea is great, Further, he should add that the clubshaft should point to
the target libe on *both* sides of the ball from waist high to waist high.
That manages plane real well. But it omits face angle issues.
>
> According to him, being over the top or radically inside on your downswing
> certainly doesn't help you achieve the goal, but it can be overcome.
No--if you are radically OTT on the way down, then get to your brother's
follow through checpoint, you'll have to make such a radical correction that
you'd decerate the club and need to reverse roll the clubhead. Or at least
"hold - on" to stop the clubface from shutting. You may hit the ball, but
you'd be inconsistent and lose power / distance.
> What are others' thoughts on this?
larry
I'm not a swing guru, but am working on my swing nearly every day--
and will try that today on the range. It makes good sense-- and is
pretty much in line with what Gary Sowinski told me during a recent
playing lesson--i.e. that I must keep the club swinging even faster
after impact if possible-- that the arms swinging toward the target
AFTER impact is what directs the ball flight--and of course prevents
decelerating.
I do like to watch and imitate Tiger and the other pros with a very
powerful follow through. Tiger literally hits himself on the back
with the club-- his hands carried to his right shoulder by the
momentum of his still accelerating follow through. As I work with the
Whippy clubs and then alternate to my real clubs I try to generate
such a powerful follow through all the way to my back!
I will try focusing on the club position (actually they call it
"extension") after impact at horizontal.
Good stuff, thanks. Sounds like your brother is a pretty thoughtful
teacher-- and obviously has had some good success with this method.
Would be interesting to ask him about the importance of a fully
connected backswing-- to prevent OTT and to promote a very full hip
and shoulder turn. I doubt anyone can get to that good follow through
club position without having made a good backswing and achieved a good
top positon. But I would love to hear his thoughts on that. VJ and
the touring pros I admire sure seem to work on those aspects.
Larry W.
Howard Brazee
On 19-Feb-2004, "Larry St. Regis" <lstregis@DONT_SPAM_HEREi4putt.com> wrote:
> My brother, on the other hand, has developed an entire teaching principle
> based on one point in the swing -- that point in your follow through where
> your club is at waist level.
One advantage of this is that it is something we can see in our swings without a
camera.
Larry St. Regis
"Glfnaz" <glf...@qwesttrash.net> wrote in message
news:wS7Zb.377$i8.4...@news.uswest.net...
>
> "Larry St. Regis" <lstregis@DONT_SPAM_HEREi4putt.com> wrote in message
> news:YE7Zb.14826$Vq....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> > Last night, my bro' the pro and I had a rather heated discussion
regarding
> > Jim McLean's 8 points theory.
> >
> > His contention is this:
> > If, when the club is fully extended at waist level in your follow
through,
> > you are pointing the club down the target line, you will achieve your
> > directional intent. You will neither slice nor hook despite what you did
> in
> > the backswing.
>
> His thesis is great for dealing with path and plane issues.
> But he doesn't account for face angle. Or at least your brief description
of
> it didn't.
You are correct. If you close your hands through impact you will draw or
hook. Conversely, if you leave the face open, your ball flight will fade or
....
> >
> > His basis was the swings of Furyk, Garcia, Trevino and Palmer. Each of
> them
> > hit wildly diverse points in their backswing -- to the point of
sometimes
> > looking downright goofy! -- yet each of them hits the same point on
their
> > follow through: full extension down the target line at waist high.
>
> His idea is great, Further, he should add that the clubshaft should point
to
> the target libe on *both* sides of the ball from waist high to waist high.
> That manages plane real well. But it omits face angle issues.
> >
> > According to him, being over the top or radically inside on your
downswing
> > certainly doesn't help you achieve the goal, but it can be overcome.
>
> No--if you are radically OTT on the way down, then get to your brother's
> follow through checpoint, you'll have to make such a radical correction
that
> you'd decerate the club and need to reverse roll the clubhead. Or at
least
> "hold - on" to stop the clubface from shutting. You may hit the ball, but
> you'd be inconsistent and lose power / distance.
> > What are others' thoughts on this?
I should have further stated that he contends that if you are reaching that
position, it's almost certain that your OTT move will inherently decrease.
Your mind will be thinking about where the club needs to get to, and will
compensate the OTT move out of your backswing to get there.
From what I felt and saw last night, I think it works. I'll be working on it
more thoroughly over the weekend on the range.
Larry S.
Glfnaz
"Larry St. Regis" <lstregis@DONT_SPAM_HEREi4putt.com> wrote in message
> From what I felt and saw last night, I think it works. I'll be working on
it
> more thoroughly over the weekend on the range.
>
> Larry S.
There's nothing magic about his instruction.
But, It is a real good position to get to.
What the "other Larry" didn't ubderstand was that LLLarry mentioned ' the
arms continueing toward the target'. Thats not really the case. The arms
continue up their plane. Around and up. The upper arms will be going around,
while the hands are still moving towards the target and then around.
At your brother's checkpoint, which is good, from behind the golfer looking
down the line we'd see the shaft pointing down the line and the hands "in",
and starting to go around. Just like when you make a 20 yard chip. Hands in,
clubhead out.
Dave Lee
I can see this being very effective in some cases. In my case the basic
problem was/is the wrong position at the top (way too flat, club not on
plane and pointing well left of the target line). For my problem I can't see
this solution doing anything more than improving the compensations required
to achieve decent ball striking from this incorrect position. It just seems
very unlikely that I would have found an on-plane swing using this approach.
dave
"Larry St. Regis" <lstregis@DONT_SPAM_HEREi4putt.com> wrote in message
news:YE7Zb.14826$Vq....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
buck
or closed club face. It would appear that the closer you are to plane on
both the backswing and the follow through will certainly make life easier to
get to your bro's "down the target line".
Good Stuff- Thanks!
"Larry St. Regis" <lstregis@DONT_SPAM_HEREi4putt.com> wrote in message
news:YE7Zb.14826$Vq....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
Larry St. Regis
"buck" <who...@covad.net> wrote in message
news:9fa4d$40353c55$44a7e48e$19...@msgid.meganewsservers.com...
> Makes sense to me.... Now all you have to worry about is stance and an
open
> or closed club face. It would appear that the closer you are to plane on
> both the backswing and the follow through will certainly make life easier
to
> get to your bro's "down the target line".
> Good Stuff- Thanks!
>
Thanks, Buck.
I think the thing that makes sense for me is that I'm trying my best to keep
my swing thoughts as simple as possible. I'm very religious about alignment
and grip, and I believe I've got my ball position nailed. My setup is very
consistent.
By keeping just this position in my mind, my backswing seems to know where
it needs to be to hit that mark in the follow through. Like I said, this was
in my backyard "range", so entire ball flight was not visible. I haven't had
any problem with slicing or hooking, and I don't think this thought will
have an adverse effect on that.
Larry
Doe John
Ironically, I believe what your bro is advocating is McLean's "power
line"
Doe John
Larry St. Regis
"Doe John" <gri...@gringo.net> wrote in message
news:97ma301truvh60krm...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:55:52 GMT, "Larry St. Regis"
> <lstregis@DONT_SPAM_HEREi4putt.com> wrote:
>
> >Last night, my bro' the pro and I had a rather heated discussion
regarding
> >Jim McLean's 8 points theory.
> >
> SNIPPED MY OWN DRIVEL ...
> >We tried it last night in my backyard driving cage. Although we couldn't
> >obviously tell the totality of the ball flight, it was apparent that if
you
> >hit that point in the swing correctly, your ball was starting out
correctly.
> >
> >What are the swing guru thoughts on this?
> >
> >Larry S
>
> Ironically, I believe what your bro is advocating is McLean's "power
> line"
THAT'S WHAT I TOLD HIM!!!! Of course, being the high priced pro he is, he
had his OWN name for it!
8^)
bighorn_bill
It is very difficult to see this without a camera in a full speed swing.
bighorn_bill
Larry, I think your brother knows a lot. This is a very critical part
of the swing. Getting to this point requires a lot of things to
happen correctly earlier in the swing, though.
Larry St. Regis
"bighorn_bill" <bighor...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:30d1c39a.04021...@posting.google.com...
> "Larry St. Regis" <lstregis@DONT_SPAM_HEREi4putt.com> wrote in message
news:<YE7Zb.14826$Vq....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>...
> > Last night, my bro' the pro and I had a rather heated discussion
regarding
> > Jim McLean's 8 points theory.
> >
>
> > We tried it last night in my backyard driving cage. Although we couldn't
> > obviously tell the totality of the ball flight, it was apparent that if
you
> > hit that point in the swing correctly, your ball was starting out
correctly.
> >
> > What are the swing guru thoughts on this?
> >
> > Larry S
>
> Larry, I think your brother knows a lot. This is a very critical part
> of the swing. Getting to this point requires a lot of things to
> happen correctly earlier in the swing, though.
I totally concur, Bill, and so does Ed. One of his theories -- one which he
has some pretty compelling evidence in favor of -- is that focusing more on
that point in your swing will lead them mind to doing whatever it needs to
in order to get the clubhead there. Over time, your OTT or too-inside move
begins to lessen, as your extension through the ball and down the line
improves.
Please understand, I only had last night to work with this, but I could
begin to "feel" the extension in that area of my swing. The contact felt
more crisp, and my hands were definitely releasing through the swing
correctly.
Now, obviously, this could (and most likely was) ingrained over repetition
last night ... which is why I'm hoping we get some decent weather this
weekend so I can hit the range.
I would like to do a range session with you sometime soon! I'd like to see
what your instructor's been showing you, if you don't mind sharing! I'd also
like your critique of where I'm going with my swing.
bighorn_bill
Saturday afternoon OK? Send me email, and we can work it out.
I just started a series of lessons with Bill Dobson, the head pro at
Seascape in Aptos. One thing I like about Bill is that he is built
similar to you and I :-). No flat belly! He makes an
effortless swing at the ball and smacks the crap out of it. He says
power doesn't come from effort, it comes from angles. If he can do
it with his body, so can I!
The first thing we worked on was posture, and maintaining spine
tilt away from the target on the backswing. He says this
is probably the most critical angle in the golf swing. Turn so
your left shoulder is over your right foot. Then leave your head
there on the downswing.
He also worked with me on my grip to to get it out of the palm and
into the fingers more (left hand). Also leave some of the butt of
the grip hanging out the end. This makes a big difference in
being able to control the club!
And then we worked on some downswing drills...
He also has an interesting theory that the weight shift on the downswing
occurs first, but as an automatic response to something that happens
in the backswing, not as a result of concious effort. In his opinion,
the right elbow is what leads the downswing.
I'd come to much the same conclusion about the weight shift watching my
swing on video. I noticed that when I tried to keep the lower body
"quiet" on the backswing, the weight shift would clearly be there first
on the downswing as an automatic response.
I've got it all on tape, needless to say. I'll make you a copy.