R&B - just on that Anser F again sorry!
joey
I'm actually a tad confused at the moment. The original F series (the
collectable ones) were the pre-tarnished black finish? But then came my
putter - the coppery coloured one that tarnished with age. But now they've
reintroduced the pre-tarnished black finish?
"R&B"
For the sake of clarity, let's call the "pre-tarnished" finish just that --
the "pre-tarnished" finish. It's not black. It's very dark brown. I make
this distinction because Ping has long made a black version of their
stainless steel-headed putters that also is somehow chemically treated to be
black (as opposed to being merely coated).
But now, to answer you question concerning Ping's use of the "pre-tarnished"
finish, including their "introduction" and subsequent "reintroduction" of
the finish, here's the sequence of events as I remember them:
About five or six years ago, Ping first introduced putters with inserts.
They were about the last company to jump into that arena, despite their
long-standing reputation as one of the leading (if not *the* leading) putter
manufacturer in the world. I had heard through my sources that Karsten
Solheim stated that in his expert opinion, inserts do not in any way enhance
the performance of a putter, and Ping would never introduce them to the
market as long as he was at the helm of the company. This comment seemed to
fly in the face of the trend in golf -- indeed, Odyssey had pretty much
supplanted Ping as the leader in putters, and in doing so, had overcome a
HUGE lead Ping had in the market.
Sadly, Mr. Solheim took very ill a year or two later, and his son, John,
took over the operations of the company (and runs it today since the death
of Karsten about a year ago).
Almost immediately after John took the reins at the company, Ping worked on
coming with two products that is was sorely behind the curve in providing --
namely, insert-faced putters and a titanium driver (the TiSI was the result
on the driver side, and came fully 3-4 years after Callaway's Great Big
Bertha swept the marketplace). John Solheim was quoted at that time as
saying that Ping would work toward re-establishing itself as the dominant
force in the putter market that it once was (by this time, it had lost
ground to a whole bunch of competitors, including Titleist/Scotty Cameron,
Callaway/Odyssey, Never Compromise, etc.).
The first insert-faced putter introduced by Ping was the IsoPur. The "i"
series line was born, each with the new "IsoPur" insert, and the original
"i" line came in the "Anser i," the "Pal i," the "Zing2 i" and the "B60 i"
designs. Though it is not widely known, there was a rather quick redesign
on this putter, just a few weeks after it first hit the market. The very
first models were light -- very light -- and were not especially
well-received by pros for just that reason (the rap against Ping putters in
recent years had been they were TOO light). So the company redesigned the
head, particularly the Anser i. The difference between the original "Anser
i" and the version that became available just a few months after the "i"
line was introduced, is easily distinguishable by the naked eye. Just look
at the top line of the two putters. The original Anser i's top line is very
thin, while the redesigned model had a much thicker top line. Less
noticeable on first glance, but easily discernable when comparing the two
putters side-by-side, is that the overall size of the later model was maybe
5% larger. The effect was to make the putter heavier. With this important
change, sales began to take off.
John Solheim knew he had a winner. Still, in the wake of Tiger Woods' win
at the '97 Masters, where he used the Scotty Cameron TeI3 (terrylium-insert)
putter, which was selling in stores for over $300, it was clear to the folks
at Ping that there was a market for "high end" putters, and they hadn't yet
come with a product to compete in that category.
The initial launch of the "F-series" Pings was the company's first (and
last) foray into that high-end market. The original "F series" putters were
manufactured strictly through Ping's WRX division, which is their "custom
made clubs" division. This initial launch of the Ping F series brought new
versions of their popular Anser (which was actually the modern Scottsdale
Anser head), B-60 and the less popular Sedona models. These putters were
presented with a never-before seen "pre-tarnished" finish on all sides
except the face, which sported a new "brushed" face, making it look like a
shiny, smooth bronze (as opposed to the "rough" look of the standard
manganese bronze heads). These putters featured a titanium alloy pixel
insert that took up about 2/3 of the area on the face. The dark finish made
the big white "PING" letters in the cavity really stand out, always a
popular feature among manufacturers, since it helps clearly brand the putter
on TV whenever the networks show a close-up using the "worm cam" camera
angle. These putters retailed for over $300, putting them in the same
category as the wildly popular Scotty Cameron TeI3. Sales were
unimpressive.
Ping's original line of F-series putters all came with serial numbers
engraved on the face, near the heel, presumably to enhance their value
(maybe they suspected the market would be soft for expensive Ping putters).
I'm not sure how many numbers were engraved -- I know I had putter #1030 in
the Sedona model, and I also had an Anser F, though I don't recall the
number. They made enough of these putters to go beyond the initial "limited
edition/serial number engraved" run, and eventually came with a few that did
not have a serial number. I still occasionally still see one in a store,
which proves that people didn't exactly flock to the stores to buy them. In
fact, the only player I can recall seeing use one was Mark Calcavecchia, and
he didn't use it for long. I think I've seen ONE on the public links where
I play.
Overall, sales on these $300+ Ping putters were slow, probably, in large
measure, because they were seen as an answer to Cameron's TeI3, which,
frankly, had better feel (and had the marketing impetus of having Tiger
Woods using it). Plus, Ping ventured into a high-end market at a time when,
except for a fairly small number of people, most viewed putters as a
necessary evil (most probably still do), and a lot of people were loathe to
pay that much for one. Because of the serial numbers, the original run of F
series putters was bought mostly by collectors, and were never received with
the same type of widespread market acceptance as was hoped by John Solheim
and his company. So the project was shelved, and the putter design was
re-tooled to make it more affordable for the average Joe.
About a year later, Ping came with a new line of "F series" putters, this
time with the old manganese bronze finish (not tarnished), and an insert
that was smaller (maybe only 40% of the face) which was made of stainless
steel (the pixels are larger on these inserts, though the overall area they
cover on the putter face is smaller than the original ti-alloy inserts).
Because stainless steel is less expensive than the titanium alloy they were
using, and because the larger pixels were less detailed and covered a
smaller area on the face, the cost on these putters was much lower, and Ping
was able to introduce them at a more affordable price point, around $120
each (more in line with what they were getting for their IsoPur putters).
Sales picked up immediately.
After seeing the success of this retooled version of their F Series putters,
Ping flooded the market with several new innovations. The most noteable was
a new "F" series line that featured a brass insert inlayed on a "new look"
stainless steel head (the "brushed" finish we see today). These are, IMHO,
the best feeling Ping putters they've ever made -- heavy, but with a very
soft, responsive feel when the ball comes off the face, yet are still within
that $120 prize area. At that same time, Ping also started re-introducing
some of their existing non-insert models that had long been made in
manganese bronze (namely, the good ol' Anser model, their modern
"Scottsdale" Anser, as well as the Anser 3) in the pre-tarnished finish they
first introduced only on the original ti-alloy-inlayed Anser F. A few
months after this re-introduction, Ping then started making these
pre-tarnished heads with a new "line" pattern. As you may recall, the
original Anser had no lines, while the Anser 3 did. Now, depending on which
putter you pick up, you may have no lines, or you may have one line (one
line in the flange, like they always put on the old Anser 2 models), or even
a new version with THREE lines (one on the top line, two on the flange --
very distracting, IMO). I believe they now make most of their
"pre-tarnished manganese" putters with all three line patterns.
Nowadays, you even occasionally see one of the new, less expensive "F
series" manganese heads with the pre-tarnished finish, but that is a fairly
new addition to the product line (within the last 18 months or so). When
Ping discontinued mass manufacturing of their ti-alloy insert F-Series
putters in favor of the less-expensive stainless steel larger-pixel inserted
putters, they stopped using the pre-tarnished finish completely. The
re-tooled F-Series putters came only in the untarnished manganese heads. It
wasn't until about a year later that Ping re-introduced this "pre-tarnished"
finish in other models, and eventually in the cheaper F Series putters.
Today, Ping still makes their F-Series putters three ways:
1. The old "tarnish over time" managnese bronze with stainless steel pixel
insert (perhaps this is the finish you have).
2. The newer "pre-tarnished" manganese bronze head (usually untarnished and
"brushed" on the face) with stainless steel pixel insert.
3. The "brushed" stainless steel head with brass pixel insert. (My choice
among the three.)
That they added the pre-tarnished bronze finish to this line after first
reintroducing this putter in untarnished metal, and that they started making
their non-insert manganese putters with this pre-tarnished finish is a
signal that it has grown in popularity.
It seems there's been little change in how they've presented these "F
series" putters now for about a year, as nothing new has been introduced as
far as I know. The company's attention was turned to reworking the IsoPur
putters, and earlier this year, they introduced the IsoPur 2 heads, which
have the same clear polyurathene insert as the original IsoPur putters (the
"i" series), but now with black tungsten inserts in the heel and toe (to add
heel-toe weighting). Next to the brass-insert F series putters, I think
these new IsoPur2 ("i2") putters are the best feeling putters Ping has come
with.
The putter you have, if it came with the pre-tarnished finish but has no
insert, means it is either an Anser, a Scottsdale Anser or an Anser 3, which
was made sometime from about 1999.
If it's an Anser 3, you'll know because it says so. If it's an Anser or
Scottsdale Anser, it may only say "Anser" on the head. In both the Anser
and Scottsdale Anser design, it will have a slot cut out on the bottom of
the putter. The distinguishing characteristic between the Anser and the
Scottsdale Anser is in shape of the "fins" on the back. On either side of
the cavity on the back of the putter, there is a larger mass area behind the
face on both the heel and toe. The transition area between these masses and
the thin flange that runs from heel to toe is fairly squared off on the
Anser (much the same shape as an Anser 2, 3 or 4), while these "fins"
transition in a noticeably more rounded-off shape on the Scottsdale model.
Personally, I much prefer the latter. For whatever reason, I find the
harmonics of the vibration more to my liking on the Scottsdale head.
(Similarly, I prefer the Scotty Cameron Newport over the Newport 2 for the
same reason.)
Again, I would tell you that if you're looking to untarnish a Ping putter --
either a manganese bronze or the old berrylium heads -- you're one of very
few in the world who wishes to do so. Most players, if they're wishing to
change the look, go in the opposite direction -- they try to accelerate the
tarnishing process by leaving the putter outdoors in the elements for a week
in their back yard. I have heard some say that the tarnishing process can
be reversed by soaking the head overnight in a jar of Coca-Cola, though I've
never done it and can't testify to its effectiveness. And I would caution
you: if your putter has an insert of any kind, I'm not sure how soaking the
head in Coke would effect the insert. It might fall out. Or it might be
fine. I don't know.
--
Randy
===================================================
Randy's personal play space - www.YouGoGolf.com
BOSS AUDIO - www.RandyBrownProductions.com
===================================================
e-me: r a n d y @ y o u g o g o l f . c o m
"No matter what happens, someone will take it too seriously."
Ken Yin
point I was really confused about was the introduction of the pre-tarnished
finish (I thought perhaps my putter had this finish removed before I bought
it - it was 2nd hand), which I thought was the same as the original F
series. However, it would appear that newer pre-tarnished model comes with
an aluminium insert and is tarnished on the face?
Cheers.
"R&B"
The newer F series putters come both with and without the pre-tarnished
finish in manganese bronze, and yes, they have a stainless steel (not
aluminum) pixel insert.
(There is also the third version, which is a stainless steel head with a
bronze pixel insert.)
Frankly, I don't know how someone would "untarnish" a pre-tarnished finish.
I'm not entirely sure that the same Coca-Cola "dip" used to "untarnish" an
"age-tarnished" head would undo the pre-tarnished finish, since it's done
chemically at the factory.
Are we "finished"?
Randy :-)
joey
""R&B"" <SLAM_SPAM_THANK_YA_MA'AM> wrote in message
news:9v1jeq$hnh$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
brf
> The newer F series putters come both with and without the pre-tarnished
> finish in manganese bronze, and yes, they have a stainless steel (not
> aluminum) pixel insert.
>
> Are we "finished"?
>
No. http://www.pinggolf.com/products_putters_isoforce.html
begin quote ..
"The IsoForce putters were designed to change the performance and feel of
some of our most popular putters, by adding a high-grade aluminum insert.
The insert, consisting of 50 hexagonal-shaped pixels, creates exacting feel
and feedback for the golfer. It also allows our engineers to increase the
putter's perimeter weighting because the insert is lighter in weight than
the manganese bronze it displaces. The putter's antique bronze finish and
visually pleasing lines appeal to golfers who rely on optics for added
confidence"
end quote
I'm also virtually certain the original Ping "F" series that was available
only through WRX dealers, was not Mn Bronze, but some Ni/Si alloy.
Unfortunatley the only models still listed on the WRX site
http://www.pinggolf.com/wrx/putters.html are those with the Ti hosel, but
perhaps someone from Ping could enlighten us. Though a quick google search
found:
http://www.eagleusagolf.com/proshop/makers/ping/00putter_ifwrx_e.html,
while it's not official Ping it seems about as I recall.
Brett
"R&B"
aluminum. I was mistaken.
Excuuuuuuuuuuse me.
Randy
"brf" <bre...@cia.com.au> wrote in message
news:Je%Q7.89889$li3.6...@ozemail.com.au...
"R&B"
said in my earlier missive, "this is the sequence as I remember it." Let it
be said I've been something of a Ping putter officianado for many years, and
at one time or another, have owned almost all (or certainly 2/3s) of the
putters they've made. I was especially interested in the F series design,
as I was intrigued by anything that might compete with the Cameron TeI3,
which, if you failed to oil it, would rust. I thought that was a hassle.
So I followed the Ping story pretty closely when this putter was first
introduced, and subsequently when it was reintroduced in a slightly retooled
fashion.
Again, the sequence was "as best as I could recall it," which is pretty darn
close. If I've missed a detail here or there, I'm sorry.
If Ping makes claims to the contrary with something I've said here, I would
advise you to go with their version of the facts, as they're a little closer
to it.
:-)
That said, I will stand by my statement that the newer F-series (aluminum
insert) comes both with and without the pre-tarnished finish. I know
because I've seen it in stores. Whether or not they "list" both versions,
well, I don't know. It could be that one has been phased in or out and
there are still models in stores. But I know for a fact they offer it both
ways. Or have since the product was reintroduced.
Randy
"joey" <hard...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fhZQ7.439320$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
brf
> Great. Now we're playing "gotcha." Okay, you got me. The insert is
> aluminum. I was mistaken.
>
> Excuuuuuuuuuuse me.
>
> Randy
Geez Randy lighten up. At least we are on a golf related topic. Specific
questions were asked. They were answered by a few people including you some
of the data was correct some not, I simply posted some references.
Perhaps we should get back to our regular programming of the Felicity show?
Brett
"R&B"
> >
> > Are we "finished"?
> >
>
> No. http://www.pinggolf.com/products_putters_isoforce.html
>
> begin quote ..
>
> "The IsoForce putters were designed to change the performance and feel of
> some of our most popular putters, by adding a high-grade aluminum insert.
Yes. We've covered this. The newer model has an aluminum insert. I was
mistaken in saying it was stainless steel.
> I'm also virtually certain the original Ping "F" series that was available
> only through WRX dealers,
It may be that they were only available thru WRX dealers, which is basically
what I said. I said that they were made exclusively by Ping WRX. I guess I
failed to connect the dots to indicate that the only accounts that carry
Ping WRX "special order" products are Ping WRX dealers. Here in the big
city, that's pretty much all the large discount shops -- Edwin Watts, Pro
Golf Discount (which is what Edwin Watts was here before EW bought 'em out),
Golf Warehouse, etc.
> was not Mn Bronze, but some Ni/Si alloy.
Not true. It was manganese bronze; of that I'm 100% certain. Although I
believe you may be right in recalling that nickel was involved somehow. The
titanium alloy used in the pixel insert might very well have been a
nickel/titanium alloy. That sounds familiar. It has, after all, been three
or four years since these putters were introduced. As I said before, I
shared the story and sequence as I best recalled it, and you've rung a bell
here. That might be right; a nickel/ti alloy in the insert. But the head
itself was manganese bronze. I'm sure of that. I had two of 'em.
> Unfortunatley the only models still listed on the WRX site
> http://www.pinggolf.com/wrx/putters.html are those
> with the Ti hosel, but perhaps someone from Ping
> could enlighten us. Though a quick google search
> found:
Frankly, I haven't really kept up with Ping's putters since they started
making those silly titanium-hosel putters, so I wouldn't know much about
them. I've putted with them in several shops, and they feel horrible.
Clanky as hell.
I need to call Ping this week for something else. I'll ask 'em about those
original pixel inserts in the first F Series putters, and I'll report back
what I find out.
Randy