What PGA Golfers Are Jerks to fans?
Mark Bau
rmh...@yahoo.com wrote on 6/17/01 12:00 AM:
> I can understand why golfers can be mad sometimes, but who are the
> meanest, most unapproachable golfers on the PGA and other professional
> tours?
>
> -Eric Hartman
Greg Norman would be numero uno in this category and I'm a fellow Aussie!
Anyhow, he's all washed up now so it doesn't really matter
Mark
Felicity Lodge
Hartman <rmh...@yahoo.com> writes
>I can understand why golfers can be mad sometimes, but who are the
>meanest, most unapproachable golfers on the PGA and other professional
>tours?
>
>-Eric Hartman
A pro told me that Nick Faldo was unapproachable, but he sounds like a
nice guy in interview.
--
F.
skip
autographs.
charles
> A pro told me that Nick Faldo was unapproachable, but he sounds like a
> nice guy in interview.
>
> --
> F.
Personally, I have approached Nick Faldo for autographs & he was very
gracious & signed for everyone.
You want jerks to the fans? The two worst are Lanny Wadkins & Tiger Woods.
Charles
Josh
rmh...@yahoo.com (Eric Hartman) wrote:
>I can understand why golfers can be mad sometimes, but who are the
>meanest, most unapproachable golfers on the PGA and other professional
>tours?
My personal experience:
Fuzzy Zoeller - the king of a-holes and I thought this BEFORE the
watemelon incident
David Duval is very stand-offish but not rude. He doesn't sign very much,
but my son did get his autograph.
Tiger can be rude but he does sign a lot.
Curtis Strange used to be a jerk, but I think he's been humbled.
**** NICE GUYS in order of my personal experience****
Arnold Palmer - Number 1
Brent Geiberger
Carlos Franco
David Morland IV
Mike Weir
Scott Hoch
Hal Sutton
John Daly
Don Doyle
standing next to a friend that politely asked for his autograph. This
was while standing on the patioaccessable only through the clubhouse -
not with the *general* public. In other words, the high rent tickets.
The best is Chi Chi - he will sign everything - but kids come first.
Other nice guys, Irwin, Stockton, Murphy - all of these nice guys are
also from personal experience.
Don
Lets talk Golf!!
PS Other truly nice golf guys - Randy, Golfin' Don, Rick Rider, Mark
Aronson, Rick DeMent, and all the guys I played with at RSG-OHIO. Had
a ball playing with all of these guys. They may not be on the PGA
Tour but they are on the RSG Tour which is better anyhow.
I didn't get an autograph from any of them but I am sure that they
would given me one if I had asked - or bought them a beer! :-)
Larry Levy
Angeles, I found Floyd to be very nice to fans on the course. It was
very hot and he came up to a group of us and said he really
appreciated us coming out being that it was so hot.
Interesting story with Dave Stockton that same day. I was standing at
the first tee and looking at an empty adjacent green. All of a sudden,
some guy said to me, "Wow, that pin placement is really brutal." I
turned around and it was Stockton. We spent a few minutes discssing
the green. Great guy.
Also, Bruce Summerhays spent a lot of time talking to spectators on
the first tee. He seemed very nice.
How about a good/bad Senior Tour and LPGA list guys?
-Larry
On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 17:22:01 GMT, Don Doyle <hhs...@sdfhfhsd.com>
wrote:
http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/levyl.htm
http://www.geocities.com/levys2/ham.html
Remove "NoSpam" for email
@prodigy.net John Bergan
few years ago I was following him at a senior tour event, on a_very_hot day.
On each tee, there was a cooler filled with bottled water for the players
and caddies. After he hit his drive, he got a bottle of water, looked at
the crowd and said something like, "You people must be as hot as me," and
proceeded to hand out every bottle of water to the fans.
--
John
Larry Levy wrote in message <0irpit40d6maec29k...@4ax.com>...
M.T. Hunt
to sign a golf ball but the next guy who asked, he said "no, too hard to
sign golf balls" and walked away.
I am willing to bet that people sticking stuff in your face 24/7 will
make most people act like an asshole now and then.
mike
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Email: mth...@home.com
RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/huntm.htm
-------------------------------------------------------------
qpalzm
Second that :-)
qpalzm
think he's the worst. On the other hand, meeting him at his best time would
make you think the contrary.
It's just often (not all the time, but often) hard to tell from one meeting
how someone generally behaves. We all have our moments :-)
Bobby Knight
wrote:
>
>Second that :-)
For some reason I'm glad I don't know what in hell you're
seconding.
>
"Someone likes every shot"
bk
RSG FAQ: at http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html
"R&B"
>
> The best is Chi Chi - he will sign everything - but kids come first.
>
> Other nice guys, Irwin, Stockton, Murphy - all of these nice guys are
> also from personal experience.
Agreed. I would add that most of the Senior TOUR guys are very
approachable. I especially enjoyed visiting a few years ago with Charles
Coody.
> PS Other truly nice golf guys - Randy, Golfin' Don, Rick Rider, Mark
> Aronson, Rick DeMent, and all the guys I played with at RSG-OHIO.
You're nice, too. Frankly, I can't recall meeting anyone who genuinely love
the game of golf who *isn't* nice. There are plenty of jerks who *play*
golf who are, but I've not met any who *love* golf who are anything but good
people.
Randy
Cyril Ma
Lemme guess, you are caucasian right? If that's the case, may I also safely
assume that you've never had racial slurs to deal with?
Fuzzy screwed up..he just made him suffer for it. Not that big of a deal.
--
"There are simply some emotions that cannot be expressed with the club still
in one's hand" Bobby Jones
Pat Williams
>**** NICE GUYS in order of my personal experience****
>
>Arnold Palmer - Number 1
Here is an experience with Arnold Palmer.
He hits a bad shot to the 18th at Carnoustie and actually heaves his
club at his bag/caddie. Face like thunder. My 8 year old daughter runs
up to him with pen in hand and I thought that he would throw *her* into
the Barry burn!! But no, his face changed, he ruffled her hair and said
"Sure, honey."
US Ambassador par excellence!
--
Pat Williams
Steve Ho
have your autograph, Mr. Furyk?" He politely declined.
In article <BC8C0B173A4DB5FD.877E0189...@lp.airnews.net>,
Tim F. Ginnett
Steve Ho <ste...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:9gl60a$875$1...@panix6.panix.com...
Larry Levy
He'll usually talk to the gallery whenever he can.
-Larry
On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 15:20:24 -0400, "John Bergan" <JBERGANdon'tspamme
@prodigy.net> wrote:
>I've heard good and bad stories about Trevino, but mine is a good one. A
>few years ago I was following him at a senior tour event, on a_very_hot day.
>On each tee, there was a cooler filled with bottled water for the players
>and caddies. After he hit his drive, he got a bottle of water, looked at
>the crowd and said something like, "You people must be as hot as me," and
>proceeded to hand out every bottle of water to the fans.
http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/levyl.htm
jowall
"Felicity Lodge" <feli...@grayhall.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1bRWwdAk...@grayhall.demon.co.uk...
jowall
Interesting strategy.
"John Bergan" <JBERGANdon'tspamme @prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:9gj06q$6rq6$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...
John Pflum, Jr.
then would play like crap. :-)
Larry Levy wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2001 15:20:24 -0400, "John Bergan" <JBERGANdon'tspamme
> @prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >I've heard good and bad stories about Trevino, but mine is a good one. A
> >few years ago I was following him at a senior tour event, on a_very_hot day.
> >On each tee, there was a cooler filled with bottled water for the players
> >and caddies. After he hit his drive, he got a bottle of water, looked at
> >the crowd and said something like, "You people must be as hot as me," and
> >proceeded to hand out every bottle of water to the fans.
>
> http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/levyl.htm
> http://www.geocities.com/levys2/ham.html
> Remove "NoSpam" for email
--
John Pflum, Jr.
PKG Consultants, Inc.
5533 Fair Lane
Cincinnati, Ohio 45227
513/272-5533
Web: http://www.pkgconsult.com
Email: jpfl...@pkgconsult.com
jowall
camera is off it's a different story.
I think most of the Tour players are just human. If things are going well,
if they don't feel anxious or harassed, they'll cooperate with fans. But,
also like most people, there are times when the last thing they need is to
be asked for an autograph. Guy has a sore back, his looper just wised off,
his putter doesn't seem to work, his draw has disappeared, the courtesy car
hasn't arrived, the new shoes hurt, his air reservation is lost.....
"Larry Levy" <levys...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2vcsitc26j29tqlaj...@4ax.com...
ConnMoore
entire life, and the only player I have ever seen be rude to fans.....was Payne
Stewrt. The first time was at The Fred Meyer Challenge, one of the very early
ones, in Portland Oregon....not even a real event.........and during the pro am
no less....one player cracked a pretty good joke. The gallery following the
group started laughing......Stewart was practicing his swing on the teeing area
and he said in a very loud voice "Okay now everyone shut up now" The gallery
thought he was joking, as there was no one about to hit their shot, so they
laughed, a little nervously.
Then Stewart actually yelled. I AM SERIOUS EVERYONE BE QUIET"
Honestly....it put a real pall over the moment.
At the same tournament two years later..he told a kid a flat "No" when the kid
asked him for an autograph as he was leaving the 18th. Didnt just walk by, or
say "Sorry I cant right now" Just made sure to be as brusque as possible.
His attitude during his early days of his career really colored my perceptiosn
of him throughout his career. As I understand it he became more mellow and
less "Cranky" as he got older.....but these things stay with you.
@prodigy.net John Bergan
there been anyone behind him...
--
John
jowall wrote in message <9glkn0$qr$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>...
Larry Levy
Trevino, there was not a big crowd around and no cameras and he was
great.
-Larry
On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 15:33:53 -0400, "jowall" <jow...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>Yes, he will. But there are reports that once the crowd is gone or the
>camera is off it's a different story.
http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/levyl.htm
Joseph Hall
-joseph
Joseph Hall
and the odd numbered ones are "prick."
-joseph
Joseph Hall
at the Phoenix Open. Sergio was the king of crowd schmoozing but Duval
was right up there. DL III, on the other hand, was reasonably polite
but distant and testy at times. Hal must have been having a bad day.
-joseph
Matt Aamold
ConnMoore <conn...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010618153421...@ng-fp1.aol.com...
ConnMoore
>was deserved. Tiger didnt need to pile on and make it worst.
>
Im not much of a Tiger fan--He has an arrogance about him that is very off
putting to me. But Jesus...Tiger was what? 21--22 years old? And the
Fuzzter was over 40...yet Tiger was expected to be the "bigger" man? Fuzzy
deserved to be humiliated....he needed to get some things in his life put in
order. And frankly--the whole Dean MArtin, drink in one hand, thoughtless
comment coming out of his mouth, bit Fuzzy was into was old.
It was not Tigers job to be the bigger man.....he could have been more
gracious--but he could have also been an even bigger dick about it. And he had
a point----if Zoeller had not apologized TO him..then Woods was under no
responsability accept an apology not personally given.
Jeff Connelly
> Im not much of a Tiger fan--He has an arrogance about him that is very off
> putting to me. But Jesus...Tiger was what? 21--22 years old? And the
> Fuzzter was over 40...yet Tiger was expected to be the "bigger" man?
My dad taught me how to do that by the time I was 15 or 16.
ConnMoore
Well you think Fuzzy would have learned it by the time he was in his 40's then.
Ray Pezzi
way back in June, 1975 when Johnny was at the top of his game and
right up there battling it out with Nicklaus and Trevino, he came to
Wabeek C.C. in Bloomfield Hills, MI to play in J.P. McCarthy's charity
Police Athletic League tournament.
It's probably hard to remember now, but in 1975 Johnny had almost as
many endorsements as Tiger Woods does now. One of those endorsements
was for the Wilson ProStaff ball, which he supposedly played while
winning the Phoenix Open,etc., etc.
Anyway, I was in the gallery at the PAL tournament when Johnny Miller
hooked one into the left rough and the ball rolled right up next to my
feet. Of course, I took a look at the ball and was quite surprised to
see that, rather than a Wilson ProStaff, the ball was a Titleist.
Today, I'd probably just chuckle and let it go, but in 1975 I was a
brash teenager and as Miller came walking up I bellowed something
really classy and intelligent like, "Hey, Johnny, I thought you
played a ProStaff!!!"
Johnny just smiled, walked over to me and explained that while he HAD
played a ProStaff on the Bermuda grass courses in the south, he felt
that a balata covered ball was better suited to the bent grass courses
in the northern part of the country....but that he would be playing
the ProStaff again at the British Open because it held its line better
in the wind than did the Titleist. Then he asked me some questions
about MY game and gave me a tip or two!!! All in all, he spent a
couple of minutes talking to me when he could have just as easily (and
probably justifiably) given me nothing more than an angry glare.
Before that day, I'd always rooted against Johnny Miller because he
had the potential to knock off my hero, Jack Nicklaus. Nicklaus was
also at the PAL tournament that day and I followed him around quite a
bit, of course. While his golf game was absolutely amazing, I was
extremely disappointed to see him continuously chewing out his
caddie--some kid who looked to be about 12 years old who ended up in
tears. Bear in mind that this was just a 1 day charity tournament and
it didn't matter whether Jack shot 67 or 77. Boy, he was *mean* to
that kid!
Jack Nicklaus still remains my favorite golfer of all time, but that
day 26 years ago taught me important lessons about class, humility,
and openness. Jack was a far greater golfer than Johnny Miller, but
Johnny was a great human being. Thanks, Johnny!
Ray Pezzi
Bellaire, MI
Annika1980
An All-American Jerk, not just to fans but to players alike.
2. Nick Faldo ..... one of my All-Time favs, but I can't ever remember seeing
him speak to a fan, and I've seen him play many times.
3. Sam Snead ..... I once tried to get him to sign my Masters yardage book
alongside the names of Gene Sarazen and Byron Nelson and he refused. Fuckin
prick .... on second thought move his old ass up to #1!
4. Tom Weiskopf .... another dick with ears
5. Dick Mast ..... since we're on the subject. Don't know if he's a nice guy
or not, but if you had his name, you'd be kinda pissy too.
6. Frank Lickliter .... once pulled a knife on a fan who was harrassing his
wife. Good ol boy.
7. The Sr. PGA Tour ..... lots of cranky old bastards here. Names like Hill,
Archer, Devlin, Mahaffey, Colbert, JC Snead (FP's nephew), Dent.
8. Tiger Woods ..... but only if you have a camera!
Larry Levy
>1. Hale Irwin .... aka "the walking penis."
>An All-American Jerk, not just to fans but to players alike.
That's not the impression of Irwin I got at all. In the times I have
seen him at tournaments, he has been very pleasant.
In fact, the last time I saw him, he was paired with Gil Morgan and
they seemed to be having a great time. Talking a lot, to both each
other and fans.
-Larry
Jerry
> I dont want to push this hot button and start another war, so let
> me only say that Tiger had a golden opportunity to elevate himself
> as a sports hero should.
How? By being submissive to Fuzzy? I would think if someone throws a salvo at you,
you fire back.
Jerry O.
fore_left
have also volunteered at the (formerly Motorola) Western Open. Here is
my list of jerks and nice guys, according to my experience...
<u>Jerks:</u>
1.) Lee Jansen: His behavior at the Honda Classic this year was
embarrassing. Several times on the course, I saw him yell at some
little kid, for no apparent reason.
Jansen is the only guy I will name personally. However, I have had
some experiences with other players. One player (who I won't name)
destroyed the plastic table at the tee after hitting a drive he didn't
like (he apologized the next day). Another player yelled at me for
walking in the fairway, while I was crossing to do the distance
measurements for his drive! I had one player scold me, saying his
drive hit a rake after a particularly short drive (the shortest I
measured all day). His caddie came to my rescue saying the ball did,
indeed, land in the fairway- nowhere near any rake.
<u>Good guys</u>
1.) Tom Lehman: The best. Truly alot more humble than he deserves to
be. He has never failed to stop and talk to me, or the other
volunteers, when out on the course.
2.) John Daly: Again, always has something to say to the volunteers.
At the Honda, this year, I measured his drive on the 4th hole. It was
365 yards. While he was waiting for the green to clear on the 602 yard
par five, he and I had a very interesting conversation out there in
the middle of the fairway. I had always been a fan of his game, but
now I am also a fan of John Daly the person....
3.) Chris DeMarco: Very likeable, personable guy. Real laid-back.
4.) Fuzzy Zoeller: Very personable and engaging with the fans.
Jeff Connelly
"fore_left" <sli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c378888e.01062...@posting.google.com...
> 4.) Fuzzy Zoeller: Very personable and engaging with the fans.
My personal take on Fuzzy Zoeller, after seeing him in person a number of
times, and reading all the stories about him, is that what you see can be a
little deceptive. He's not *necessarily* a nice guy based on his
personality. I'm not saying he's not a nice guy (at least some times), I'm
saying he's "outgoing" or "gregarious" or whatever you want to call it
mostly for selfish reasons. Again, this doesn't mean he's not a nice guy.
But his persona, and how he feels while playing, demands that he react to
the crowd the way he does. Just like another player might demand silence,
or might scold someone for some dumb thing, Fuzzy needs to be talking out
loud, joking around, interacting with people. It's just his style and what
he needs to do to feel relaxed and/or focused.
Chris Bellomy
:
: "fore_left" <sli...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Sounds more like Lee Trevino than Fuzzy to me, but not too far
from Fuzzy.
When I was college age, I worked at a Hyatt hotel in downtown
Fort Worth. Fuzzy stayed there during Colonial week. He was
a riot in the Don Rickles manner -- always cutting up with
quick-witted little insults (obviously never meant to sting,
so they didn't), keeping the staff in stitches. Mind you, this
was not on the course or even near it, so make of that what you
will.
When he got stupid with his Ricklesesque humor at Augusta, I was
deeply saddened, because I knew that there was no way that people
who had never met him were going to understand those remarks in
the context of Fuzzy's needling sense of humor. Out of that con-
text, he just sounded ignorant and racist, and he should have known
better. But I miss his old self.
cb
jowall
each is affected by what's going on at the moment - just as we are. That
prince today may be an SOB tomorrow.
"Jeff Connelly" <jcon...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2bnY6.9$Md.2...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
scott
>
>My point exactly, you dont fire back. Its not submissive to
>realize how stupid Fuzzy's remarks were and dismiss them as such.
>Everyone knew Fuzzy stuck his foot in it 'big time' this time. By
>being offended Tiger gave dignity and credence to what was said.
>
>Tiger acted like a school yard child and as a graduate of Stanford
>University he shouldve been 'man' enough to know better.
>I was on Tiger's band wagon right up until the Zoeller incident.
>He turned something incredibility dumb by Fuzzy into an even worse
>reflection of his own character. He blew it for me and he hasnt
>shown any reason for me to change my mind.
>
>The way Tiger Woods handled that situation gave us all a very good
>look inside the 'man', and I say the man has a way to go.
I agree with you except for a couple of points, Alan. First, Tiger
didn't graduate from Stanford. He turned pro before finishing.
Second, I'm wondering how much his handlers (Nike, IMG, and Earl
Woods) had to do with not allowing Tiger to let the comment drop
instead of giving the media full reign to put a seriously negative
spin to Zoeller's comment.
The reason I mention the second part is I don't think Tiger was in
control of his life at all during his first two years on tour.
Scott
scott
>
>I agree. We hardly ever see Fuzzy on TV anymore. And when we do
>he looks broken and a shadow of himself. Sure Fuzz had a drink in
>his hand and two more under his belt. Sure he popped off without
>thinking. But he didnt deserve this. This is just not right.
>
>I urge the TV networks to bring him back. Im sure I speak for many
>when I say, "We miss you Fuzzster".
>
You can count me in that group, but I guess we'll be labeled non-PC
and having a poor excuse for a sense of humor.
Ask me if I care what people think. Unfortunately, Fuzzy won't let
his guard down again even if given the chance.
Scott
Bobby Knight
>
>Good observation and, sorry, I assumed that he graduated.
>
>Whoever the decision maker was, they let Fuzzy hang out to dry. It
>was just plain unnecessary and cruel. To this day, every time I
>see Tiger Woods I get a sick feeling and think about what happened
>to Fuzzy. I doubt that I will ever be a fan of TW again.
>
The inference is that Tiger was at fault for some reason. As much as
I like Fuzzy, it was his mistake, but I'm sure it was not intended to
demean anyone.
"Someone likes every shot"
bk
RSG FAQ: at http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html
Jerry
when it's Fuzzy's fault he made those dumb remarks.
You don't think those remarks were directed at Tiger personally? Gimme a
break. Then what do you think he meant by "collared greens and fried
chicken, or whatever the hell THEY serve..."?
I'm sure Fuzzy's a nice joker kind of guy, but he sure sounded like a
nice racist joker kind of guy to me (ala some people in rsg). It's
unfortunate that Fuzzy was hurt by all this, because he wasn't the only
tour player out there saying those kinds of things about Tiger, the
others were just more careful about it. But I think it taught the rest of
the tour that you can't get away with saying those kinds of things.
Jerry O.
Alan Jones wrote:
> I agree. Fuzzy's remarks did come across with a certain disdain,
> but I 'do not' think they were directed at Tiger personally. Fuzzy
> simply forgot that he wasnt among friends in the clubhouse bar and
> Im not even sure he realized that a camera was on him.
>
> I just didnt appreciate seeing Fuzzy nailed to the scoreboard as an
> example of racial society.
Mark Bau
ala...@yahoo.com wrote on 6/21/01 3:46 PM:
>
> Good observation and, sorry, I assumed that he graduated.
>
> Whoever the decision maker was, they let Fuzzy hang out to dry. It
> was just plain unnecessary and cruel. To this day, every time I
> see Tiger Woods I get a sick feeling and think about what happened
> to Fuzzy. I doubt that I will ever be a fan of TW again.
>
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 15:03:17 -0500, scott <ch...@execpc.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with you except for a couple of points, Alan. First, Tiger
>> didn't graduate from Stanford. He turned pro before finishing.
>> Second, I'm wondering how much his handlers (Nike, IMG, and Earl
>> Woods) had to do with not allowing Tiger to let the comment drop
>> instead of giving the media full reign to put a seriously negative
>> spin to Zoeller's comment.
>>
>> The reason I mention the second part is I don't think Tiger was in
>> control of his life at all during his first two years on tour.
What, you think he has control now?
Mark
Chris Bellomy
: You're making it sound like it's Tiger's fault he didn't pardon Fuzzy
: when it's Fuzzy's fault he made those dumb remarks.
:
: You don't think those remarks were directed at Tiger personally? Gimme a
: break. Then what do you think he meant by "collared greens and fried
: chicken, or whatever the hell THEY serve..."?
My first thought, when I heard this, was that Fuzzy was satirizing
a racist when he said this. Given what I've learned about his life
since then, I've become more convinced that this is true. Zoeller
has touched the lives of folks of different race in sufficiently
kind ways as to remove all thought of redneck racism on his part.
The "collard greens and fried chicken" crack had to have been a
bit of very dry, dark wit from a guy famous for that. And, it was
funny to think about a guy with dark skin ordering up a dinner of
black ethnic food for service at a place with the pretense and
sordid racial history of Augusta National. That is, if irony is
funny to you. (It is to me.)
I'm reminded that people still think that Randy Newman hates
short people.
The other shame of this, btw, was that a kid (and Tiger Woods was
little more than a kid when this went down) was put in such an
awkward situation. If you think about it, Tiger was in a damned-
if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't situation. If he had accepted
Fuzzy's apology right away, there would have been a chorus of folks
deploring Tiger for his indifference toward racism. Maybe Tiger
could have handled it better with some private communication with
Fuzzy, but geez, he was 21! When I was 21, I could barely keep
myself out of serious trouble -- I'm quite certain I would have
handled this situation of Tiger's far worse than he did.
cb
Bobby Knight
>On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 02:15:55 GMT, Jerry <jingo...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>You're making it sound like it's Tiger's fault he didn't pardon Fuzzy
>>when it's Fuzzy's fault he made those dumb remarks.
>
>The ball was in Tiger's court. He had control. To me it was,
>'play thru' / 'putt out'. At the very least, Tiger showed poor
>sportsmanship.
Bullshit. Control of what? Control of the media who pressed him to
discuss it? The remark wasn't made about Tiger. Why is he singled
out as having to make any statements about it. He wasn't present,
just black, and the biggest story in golf.
Chris Bellomy
: The remark wasn't made about Tiger.
Well, actually, it was.
: Why is he singled
: out as having to make any statements about it. He wasn't present,
: just black, and the biggest story in golf.
You answered your own question. And, the remark was about him.
I agree with you that it was unfair situation for Tiger, though.
cb
Bobby Knight
<pory...@irevb.arg.invalid> wrote:
>Bobby Knight <bkn...@verio.net> wrote:
>
>: The remark wasn't made about Tiger.
>
>Well, actually, it was.
Wrong Chris. The actual remark was "...or whatever THEY eat....
If he had used the pronoun *he*, I would been pissed. Do you realize
how old the kid was...and to be put in that position was wrong, and
more than most seasoned pros could have handled.
<clip>
ConnMoore
>If he had used the pronoun *he*, I would been pissed. Do you realize
>how old the kid was...and to be put in that position was wrong, and
>more than most seasoned pros could have handled.
Well geez--lets look at this logically.....Fuzzy was talking about the annual
Masters dinner...he was making dispariging remarks about what choices the
defending champion was going to make for his meal (Hmmm--who was the defending
champion?) He then says "Whatever "They" (Meaning african americans) eat. So
who exactly could he have been talking about? If it had been the year
before--and Fuzzy had said something like "Well I guess it will be Bangers and
Kidney pie--or whatever they eat" Would you not assume he was talking about
Nick Faldo??
He was talking directly about Tiger--and making comments based on Tigers racial
heritage and stereotypes involved with that.
Sheesh--i cant believe the attempts made to split hairs here.
Bobby Knight
Sheesh. The bottom line is that he was not making a pointed reference
to the kid, and the line about the collard greens was an afterthought.
He didn't intend it, and Tiger accepted his apology...
Sheesh, geez, etc. It should go away.
ConnMoore
>to the kid, and the line about the collard greens was an afterthought.
>He didn't intend it, and Tiger accepted his apology...
>
>Sheesh, geez, etc. It should go away.
Well it has gone away...except in this thread----But to deny he was talking
directly about Woods---is complete head in the sand thinking. He made several
pointed references to the kid.....there was no other person in Earth he could
have been talking about. How many other defending Masters champions that also
happened to be black were there that year?
jowall
days, perhaps understanding it was a no-win deal and hoping it would just
go away. But when the media continued to report and press, he had to make
some comment. He was damned either way.
"Chris Bellomy" <pory...@irevb.arg.invalid> wrote in message
news:uyyY6.48106$aW5.5...@dfw-read.news.verio.net...
bjwilkin@.ilstu.edu
stomach, and who among us has not said something inappropriate under
those circumstances. We do not normally say something that absolutely
should not be said into a TV camera though.
B. J. Wilkinson
On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 02:15:55 GMT, Jerry <jingo...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>You're making it sound like it's Tiger's fault he didn't pardon Fuzzy
Chris Bellomy
: On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 03:26:19 GMT, Chris Bellomy
: <pory...@irevb.arg.invalid> wrote:
:
:>Bobby Knight <bkn...@verio.net> wrote:
:>
:>: The remark wasn't made about Tiger.
:>
:>Well, actually, it was.
:
: Wrong Chris. The actual remark was "...or whatever THEY eat....
Of which HE was the member of interest, since he just won the Masters.
Ah, well, we're arguing semantics here. I think we agree on the main
point:
: Do you realize
: how old the kid was...and to be put in that position was wrong, and
: more than most seasoned pros could have handled.
I agree 1000% with you here.
cb
Nickle911
didn't attack anyone personally..What ever happen to freedom of speech
O'B
<nick...@aol.com> wrote:
> What ever happen to freedom of speech
"Freedom of speech" refers to your right as an American to say (with a
few danger-causing exceptions) whatever you want without fear of
prosecution from the government. It has absolutely nothing to do with
preventing people from disagreeing with something you say.
John
ConnMoore
>truly offended and again that was a poor reflection on his
>character. Today, I feel Tiger would say that he did mishandle and
>over-react to the situation. That is if he has matured in the
>years past.
>
god..you can say in one sentence that he was truly offended..then in the next
say he should have lied--to protect Fuzzy.
You know--it is okay to be offended by someone who is being a bore....it is
also okay to not cater to that mentality by blowing it off. tiger was under no
obligation to cover up for Fuzzy--no matter how mature he was.
As I recall..asll tiger said was "I dont know..Fuzzy has not contacted me to
apologize" or something like that...Exactly how is this piling it onto
Fuzzy?--who did this to himself for gods sake!
ConnMoore
>
>I think Fuzzy's comments can be broken into two sections. In the
>first he congratulates Tiger and in the second he tells him to not
>be like 'them'. Though the racist comment was directed at Tiger,
>Fuzzy didnt include him as being one of 'them'.
>
>My take is Fuzzy didnt intend to insult Tiger personally.
I am seriously laughing here..Fuzzy doesnt want Tiger to be one of
"Them"...when Tiger is already one of "Them" yet he is not directly insulting
Tiger...
This seems so obvious to me...but you are making some pretty impressive efforts
to make it seem like he was not directly talking about Tiger..and only Tiger.
Chris Bellomy
:
: I dont agree with the damned if you do/dont conclusion. Tiger
: could have easily silenced the press with just a few words. He
: should have said something like, "hey, thats Fuzzy guys. what can
: i say? he likes to joke around. i know that, and i know you know
: that. now lets move on and talk about golf".
He could have, sure.
Then he'd have been vilified for it.
cb
ConnMoore
>greens most of the time. Are you saying that stereotype fits
>Tiger? My point is, I dont think Fuzzy did either.
>
Well---when you can find me any other people who were selecting the dinner for
the champions dinner that year...You can say that Fuzzy was talking about them.
until then----the whole subject came up because of Tiger..no other reason. So
it had to be about him.
ConnMoore
>knows where to find me". Those are the very words I remember.
>Those are the words of childish arrogance.
So Fuzzy had obviously made no effort to apologize to tiger....yet Tiger is
supposed to accept this non apology--and say it does not mean anything?
It waws all Fuzzys doing....trying to put this in any way in tigers court is
just crap. Fuzzy said it..and Fuzzy can live with it...It is not anyone elses
responsability to make it better. if Fuzzy is worried about his
reputation...Fuzy can try and repair it.
Obviously Fuzzy offended tiger.....at that point--tiger does not have any
obligation to try and prove anything...except apparently to you. Tiger was the
offended party--the responsability becomes Fuzzys at that point...Fuzzy did the
right thing--said he was sorry--and just let it die. Tiger did the right
thing--said he would expect an apology before he said anything else. then let
it die...it is not like Tiger talks about how he was offended every day...he is
apparently satisfied with whatever was finaly said to him. I am sorry...but
despite some peoples assertations..Tiger is not the Pope--it is not his job as
an adult or a human being to be going around absolving idiots. maybe you
think it is okay to tell drunken idiots that whatever they do is okay because
they are funny or something. I do know if I was the only member of my race on
a sports tour--and one of the past champions had come out with something like
Fuzzy said--i would have been pissed and offended.
ConnMoore
>opinion.
I know its your opinion..You are just forgetting the context the statements
were made in. Fuzzy was talking about the Champions dinner--he was not talking
about random african americans....He was talking about Tiger as part of that
stereotyped group. When he said "Those people" He meant Tiger and other
african americans. Of course it was about Tiger personally......who the hell
else is going to be picking the champions dinner? this was not a random
statement on Fuzzys part...if he had said "Those people" in a random
conversation ..then yeah--i could believe what you are saying.....But the
entire conversations was about what Tiger was going to pick as the dinner...who
the hell else was Fuzzy talking about? You honestly are not making any sense
here....
Fuzzy was worried that Lee Elder or Calvin Peete were going to be picking
collard greens for the dinner? The conversation was about Tiger..and what he
was going to pick--you cant suddenly say that once Fuzzy starts talking like an
idiot...that he is going to forget that he is talking about Tiger....and just
go on a general racist rant.
ConnMoore
>black americans. If you dont or wont understand the difference,
>theres nothing more I can do.
the stament would not have been bmde if tiger was not the defending
champion...seems pretty clear cut to me. twist it how you want...Fuzzy was
talking about Tiger in particular..and African Americans in general.....why are
you so desperate to apologize for him?
Chris Bellomy
:
: On Sat, 23 Jun 2001 05:43:21 GMT, Chris Bellomy
: <pory...@irevb.arg.invalid> wrote:
:
: Why? For standing up and being mature. He hasnt been vilified for
: over-reacting.
You're vilifying him here, Alan. And I'm quite certain that had
he let Fuzzy off the hook early, he'd have gotten roasted for
coddlng a racist. When you are as young and popular as Tiger Woods,
there are people who like to use your popularity as a political
football. It's just a fact of being a celebrity in the United
States.
cb
Annika1980
that the situation dictated a reply from Tiger.
So in his best "Buckwheat" voice Tiger wrote,
"Aye Fuddy, ow my dictate?"
Don Porter
>-In general, are the Senior players nice? I am really unsure as I have
>heard conflicting viewpoints, but I would not be suprised either way.
I played in a charity event several years ago with David Graham of the
Senior Tour, Eric, and he couldn't have been nicer. He was just
supposed to show up and play, but he came early and spent about 90
minutes on the range giving instructional tips to anybody who asked
for his advice.
When a rainstorm held up the start, he circulated among everyone in
the clubhouse, signing autographs and chatting with anyone who wanted
to talk. He seemed very friendly and outgoing to me.
Basil Parker
heard_it_on_the_internet > "@5sigma.com> wrote:
>Certainly one of the best sulkers of all time is Jose Maria Olazabal.
>
> -joseph
>
Hi Joseph
I must disagree, at the end of 99, the year he won the Masters, he was
invited to the Million dollar in SA. On the Tuesday I was watching him
on the Driving range, he was having a torrid time with his driver and
eventually tossed it one side and walked off. I was standing in his
path and took a gamble to ask for his autograph and even pushed for a
photo of us together, I got both.
Basil
Mark Bau
dpo...@datacruz.com wrote on 6/23/01 6:18 PM:
Well of course, he's an Aussie!
Mark
Pulliam-Hansen
wrote:
>Alan Jones <ala...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> If he doesnt, he should. IMO, the Fuzzy deal was completely
>> mishandled.
>
>This Fuzzy incident has left you in quite a knot.
>
>You two related somehow?
Y'know, I find it interesting that this thread is under the header
"What PGA Golfers Are Jerks to Fans?" as Fuzzy is about the nicest,
most approachable pro in the business. And, frankly, the whole mess
with TW was blown *way* out of proportion. Fuzzy is known on both
tours as a jokester and anything less than "Racist Statement By
Zoeller" doesn't sell newspapers. I lived in Indiana for a number of
years - even played in a scramble at Fuzzy's old home course in New
Albany (pronounced "N'albany") with his mother and his sister, at the
end of which scramble Fuzzy was there to meet and greet - and this was
just a no-name charity fundraiser. Nicest guy you ever want to meet.
And when you followed him in a tournament, he was unfailingly
courteous and friendly. His sister told me that that ruckus ruined
what was left of his career, that he just lost heart after that, as he
had always been known on the tour as one of the "good guys," and
having his career capsulized by a poorly thought out joke is a
travesty. I seriously doubt that Fuzzy is any more of a racist than my
Labrador Retriever.
Terry "Squeaks" Hansen
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CO
RSG Role Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/hansent.htm
Josh
Alan Jones <ala...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>This is what Im saying, thank you. Its exactly the thrust Ive been
>making. Plain and simple, Fuzzy's comments just didnt warrant what
>happened.
Maybe they didn't, but what goes around comes around. I have a close
friend that has seen Fuzzy shit all over common folks, and I'm talking when
Tiger was in grade school.
>You can see by just looking at him that hes been
>terribly hurt and broken by it.
Boo hoo. He had just enough booze in him to drop his guard and let one
slip.
jimm...@gmail.com
> in article bf2782c3.01061...@posting.google.com, Eric Hartman at
> rmh...@yahoo.com wrote on 6/17/01 12:00 AM:
>
> > I can understand why golfers can be mad sometimes, but who are the
> > meanest, most unapproachable golfers on the PGA and other professional
> > tours?
> >
> > -Eric Hartman
>
> Greg Norman would be numero uno in this category and I'm a fellow Aussie!
> Anyhow, he's all washed up now so it doesn't really matter
>
> Mark
Fred Couples. Was once in my city playing a promotional skins game. A local charity had an auction, and one of the items was a chance to be his caddy. A friend of mine paid big bucks for it. He said Couples ignored him the entire round as he hauled his bag around in 90 degree heat, and afterward did not even invite him to the players tent for a beer, which is traditional. Even worse, my friend has a child with Downs syndrome, and is very active in the local support group. He asked Couples politely if he would sign a couple of memorabilia for an upcoming charity auction in support of Downs. He refused. At this point, my fried was getting a bit pissed, and said "can I ask why not?" Coouples rep;y was, "you can ask", and then he walked away
andrcom
> >**** NICE GUYS in order of my personal experience****
> >
> >Arnold Palmer - Number 1
>
> Here is an experience with Arnold Palmer.
>
> He hits a bad shot to the 18th at Carnoustie and actually heaves his
> club at his bag/caddie. Face like thunder. My 8 year old daughter runs
> up to him with pen in hand and I thought that he would throw *her* into
> the Barry burn!! But no, his face changed, he ruffled her hair and said
> "Sure, honey."
>
> US Ambassador par excellence!
>
>
> --
> Pat Williams
Carnasty will definitely bring out the worst in you...
jesussa...@gmail.com
Lee Janzen “might” have some personality issues.
Cristie Kerr is my all time least favorite golfer. The marshal at the tee with a flag is there for SAFETY reasons. This clown always wants the flag person to move, sometimes wanting the marshal to move outside the ropes. Almost no one else does this. Either she is incredibly weak mentally, or her ego is such that her pathetic little power play is more important than safety.
I saw Hidecki signing autographs while a tv camera was on him. The SECOND the camera stopped, he stopped.
Tommy Armour is immature.