What is a putter?

[Howard Brazee]

Tiger has proposed a change to the ROG, saying that a putter cannot be
longer than the shortest club in the bag.

I know putters can be different from other clubs in having hitting
surfaces on each side - but I also know we can putt with a driver.

He wants to make belly and long putters illegal. But couldn't we use
a 4-iron as a belly putter?

[MNMikew]

"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:ufb5j79anfktdjl2o...@4ax.com...

> Tiger has proposed a change to the ROG, saying that a putter cannot be
> longer than the shortest club in the bag.

Dumb.

>
> I know putters can be different from other clubs in having hitting
> surfaces on each side -

I believe this is illegal?

>
> He wants to make belly and long putters illegal. But couldn't we use
> a 4-iron as a belly putter?

And what would making long putters illegal accomplish? Long putters do not
automatically make you a better putter.

[Lloyd]

In article <9pfrht...@mid.individual.net>,

"MNMikew" <MNMi...@aol.com> wrote:

> "Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
> news:ufb5j79anfktdjl2o...@4ax.com...
> > Tiger has proposed a change to the ROG, saying that a putter cannot be
> > longer than the shortest club in the bag.
>
> Dumb.
> >
> > I know putters can be different from other clubs in having hitting
> > surfaces on each side -
>
> I believe this is illegal?

Not with putters. Lots of blade putters out there you know.

[MNMikew]

"Lloyd" <lloydp...@me.com> wrote in message
news:lloydparsons-5F13...@news.eternal-september.org...

> In article <9pfrht...@mid.individual.net>,
> "MNMikew" <MNMi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> "Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
>> news:ufb5j79anfktdjl2o...@4ax.com...
>> > Tiger has proposed a change to the ROG, saying that a putter cannot be
>> > longer than the shortest club in the bag.
>>
>> Dumb.
>> >
>> > I know putters can be different from other clubs in having hitting
>> > surfaces on each side -
>>
>> I believe this is illegal?
>
> Not with putters. Lots of blade putters out there you know.

That's what I thought as I have a couple. Must be that two-sided chipper
thing I was thinking about.

[Lloyd]

In article <9pftps...@mid.individual.net>,

Yeah, the 2-sided chipper is illegal. I've got one and got called on
it, I actually didn't know it wasn't legal. But it sure was handy when
I needed a left handed shot! :)

[someone]

More to the point : what's he got against long putters?

[Frank Ketchum]

"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:ufb5j79anfktdjl2o...@4ax.com...

I agree with Tiger in theory but I would disagree in how to change the
rules. Belly and chest putters are bullshit and they ought to be outlawed.
I wouldn't do it by specifying a specifying a maximum length, it simply
should be illegal to anchor the end of the putter or your hand holding the
putter against your body in any way while making a stroke.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:12:18 -0500, "someone" <som...@somewhere.ca>
wrote:

There's a lot of pro golfers who have an issue with the long putters
that are anchored against the body. They believe that putting should
be a swinging, pendulum motion.
BK

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:12:18 -0500, "someone" <som...@somewhere.ca>

It makes the game easier and doesn't look right.

Which are good reasons for making metalwoods illegal.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[MNMikew]

"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message

news:aat5j7h11vfjq9cg4...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:12:18 -0500, "someone" <som...@somewhere.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>> Tiger has proposed a change to the ROG, saying that a putter cannot be
>>> longer than the shortest club in the bag.
>>>
>>> I know putters can be different from other clubs in having hitting
>>> surfaces on each side - but I also know we can putt with a driver.
>>>
>>> He wants to make belly and long putters illegal. But couldn't we use
>>> a 4-iron as a belly putter?
>>
>>More to the point : what's he got against long putters?
>
> It makes the game easier and doesn't look right.

What? How does it make it easier? Doesn't look right?

>
> Which are good reasons for making metalwoods illegal.
>

There is NO reason to make metalwoods illegal. NONE. Perhaps we should go
back to feather stuffed leather balls to.

[MNMikew]

<bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
news:c1t5j79d8fi0t6ome...@4ax.com...

You still get a pendulum motion with a long putter.

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:32:38 -0600, "MNMikew" <MNMi...@aol.com>
wrote:

>>>More to the point : what's he got against long putters?
>>
>> It makes the game easier and doesn't look right.
>
>What? How does it make it easier? Doesn't look right?

Some people have some putting faults with conventional putters that
don't show up with longer putters. "Looks right" is subjective.

>> Which are good reasons for making metalwoods illegal.
>>
>There is NO reason to make metalwoods illegal. NONE. Perhaps we should go
>back to feather stuffed leather balls to.

I shouldn't have said "good". But the same logic that people have
against long putters applies equally well (or poorly) against
metalwoods. (They don't sound right).

I suppose people complained about better balls too. But conservative
definitions of "right" are never to one's grandfather's standards.

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:12:18 -0500, "someone" <som...@somewhere.ca>
wrote:

>More to the point : what's he got against long putters?

I have my chest against my long putter.

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:23:04 -0500, "Frank Ketchum"
<nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:

>I agree with Tiger in theory but I would disagree in how to change the
>rules. Belly and chest putters are bullshit and they ought to be outlawed.
>I wouldn't do it by specifying a specifying a maximum length, it simply
>should be illegal to anchor the end of the putter or your hand holding the
>putter against your body in any way while making a stroke.

If they do that, I would prefer different wording, saying that a club
can only be touched by two body parts. That way a one handed person
can have a club that touched a hand and arm or a hand and chest.

But I remember when people thought the same way about metalwoods that
you think about long putters. The thing that has changed is that
metalwoods have been around for long enough to be accepted as normal.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:35:27 -0600, "MNMikew" <MNMi...@aol.com>
wrote:

The issue is with anchoring a putter against your belly or chest. Then
it isn't a pendulum swing.

BK

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 15:46:42 -0700, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:23:04 -0500, "Frank Ketchum"
><nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:
>
>>I agree with Tiger in theory but I would disagree in how to change the
>>rules. Belly and chest putters are bullshit and they ought to be outlawed.
>>I wouldn't do it by specifying a specifying a maximum length, it simply
>>should be illegal to anchor the end of the putter or your hand holding the
>>putter against your body in any way while making a stroke.
>
>If they do that, I would prefer different wording, saying that a club
>can only be touched by two body parts. That way a one handed person
>can have a club that touched a hand and arm or a hand and chest.
>
>But I remember when people thought the same way about metalwoods that
>you think about long putters. The thing that has changed is that
>metalwoods have been around for long enough to be accepted as normal.

No Howard, the thinking about belly putters isn't at all comparable to
that about metal woods. It's all about using your body to stabilize
a club. Also, belly or chest anchored putters have been around for at
least twenty years. It's only become an issue when guys are winning
tournaments using them.

BK

[Carbon]

I agree.

[MNMikew]

"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message

news:4fu5j7tg93fotuds6...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:32:38 -0600, "MNMikew" <MNMi...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>>>>More to the point : what's he got against long putters?
>>>
>>> It makes the game easier and doesn't look right.
>>
>>What? How does it make it easier? Doesn't look right?
>
> Some people have some putting faults with conventional putters that
> don't show up with longer putters. "Looks right" is subjective.
>
>>> Which are good reasons for making metalwoods illegal.
>>>
>>There is NO reason to make metalwoods illegal. NONE. Perhaps we should go
>>back to feather stuffed leather balls to.
>
> I shouldn't have said "good". But the same logic that people have
> against long putters applies equally well (or poorly) against
> metalwoods. (They don't sound right).

Howard, when is the last time you heard the sound of a persimmion wood on a
golf course?
>

[Baldy Man]

On 08 Feb 2012 23:09:36 GMT, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>
wrote:

There is a skill in using any putter, long or short, in the hands or
against the chin or chest. What should be outlawed is caddies lining
them up. (and for any shot, not just putts.)

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:12:47 -0600, "MNMikew" <MNMi...@aol.com>
wrote:

>> I shouldn't have said "good". But the same logic that people have
>> against long putters applies equally well (or poorly) against
>> metalwoods. (They don't sound right).
>
>Howard, when is the last time you heard the sound of a persimmion wood on a
>golf course?

It's been a while. I'm comparing today's argument with the arguments
of 3-4 decades ago.

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:56:55 -0600, bkn...@conramp.net wrote:

>>You still get a pendulum motion with a long putter.
>>
>The issue is with anchoring a putter against your belly or chest. Then
>it isn't a pendulum swing.

It can be with a my the anchor on my chest. Pendulums have anchors.

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:01:24 -0600, bkn...@conramp.net wrote:

>No Howard, the thinking about belly putters isn't at all comparable to
>that about metal woods. It's all about using your body to stabilize
>a club. Also, belly or chest anchored putters have been around for at
>least twenty years. It's only become an issue when guys are winning
>tournaments using them.

Metal woods created bigger sweet spots. They gave real advantages.
People complained that those advantages were unfair, but started using
them when they believed they would help *them*. And they were pushed
by club manufacturers.

Anchored putters don't have so many club manufacturers, but they also
give real advantages. And now people believe in them and don't like
the "unfair" advantages.

Pretty much the excuses are the same. Quite comparable.

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:26:17 +0000, Baldy Man
<bald...@thebarbers.com> wrote:

>There is a skill in using any putter, long or short, in the hands or
>against the chin or chest. What should be outlawed is caddies lining
>them up. (and for any shot, not just putts.)

Agreed. 2/3 of the skill of a putt is in the read, it should be the
player's read.

[Frank Ketchum]

"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message

news:1926j7dmvu3lq4i5h...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:12:47 -0600, "MNMikew" <MNMi...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> I shouldn't have said "good". But the same logic that people have
>>> against long putters applies equally well (or poorly) against
>>> metalwoods. (They don't sound right).
>>
>>Howard, when is the last time you heard the sound of a persimmion wood on
>>a
>>golf course?
>
> It's been a while. I'm comparing today's argument with the arguments
> of 3-4 decades ago.

It's really not the same thing. Some of the points against it may be the
same or similar but the issue is not the same.

Going from woods to metals and improving ball technology did not in any
fundamental way change the nature of the golf stroke. The stroke itself
wasn't changed. Think about when guys started straddling the line and
putting croquet style. That was made illegal. It was a fundamental change
to the putting stroke and it should have been made illegal. Belly and chest
putters are another fundamental change to the putting stroke. It gives a
point to anchor one end of the club. It is so totally against the spirit of
the rules of golf that I can't believe they weren't made illegal the second
they came out.

Do you think a chipping wedge with a three foot long grip should be legal as
in this classic practice drill?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gr3toZizs8

Same thing. Would that be illegal? It damn well ought to be.

[BAR]

In article <ufb5j79anfktdjl2o...@4ax.com>,
how...@brazee.net says...

I would like to see belly putters and long putters made illegal too.

The connection of the club to the body should be the hands and only the
hands.

[BAR]

In article <9pgdrf...@mid.individual.net>, MNMi...@aol.com says...

Guy I know got some Louisville Woods, driver and fairway, a couple of
years ago. Interesting sound when hit.

http://www.louisvillegolf.com/index.php/cPath/1?
osCsid=vt0tcpqutd0jn3mtbet1n173l3

[Howard Brazee]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 19:09:14 -0500, "Frank Ketchum"
<nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:

>> It's been a while. I'm comparing today's argument with the arguments
>> of 3-4 decades ago.
>
>It's really not the same thing. Some of the points against it may be the
>same or similar but the issue is not the same.

I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Every time people argue against a change like this (in life), it is
claimed that this time it's not the same thing, and they come up with
details to support their position.

[Lloyd]

In article <MPG.299cec7...@news.giganews.com>,

Which ROG is that?

[Lloyd]

In article <9pgdrf...@mid.individual.net>,

I don't know about when Howard heard it, but I heard it a lot yesterday
on the course. And I was real close to some of it, 'cause I was one of
two of us using at least some persimmons.

[Lloyd]

In article <MPG.299cee1...@news.giganews.com>,

And the distance difference isn't as great as some would like you to
think. Especially in the fairway woods.

Great feel, great sound!! I love my Louisville Driver through 9 woods!
:)

[Lloyd]

In article <K8EYq.12257$236....@newsfe03.iad>,

And there is a school of thought that says the real reason for making
the metalwoods was that it was getting harder to expand the golfing
market with quality woodstock. You know those persimmon trees don't
grow very fast.

And if you'll remember, at the beginning of the metalwoods, you were
seeing quite a few non-persimmon laminate woods which kind of supports
that.

[johnty]

On Feb 8, 11:52 pm, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:26:17 +0000, Baldy Man
>

> <baldy...@thebarbers.com> wrote:
> >There is a skill in using any putter, long or short, in the hands or
> >against the chin or chest. What should be outlawed is caddies lining
> >them up. (and for any shot, not just putts.)
>
> Agreed.  2/3 of the skill of a putt is in the read, it should be the
> player's read.
>

And in the same spirit would you ban all distance measuring aids,
including marker posts?

[BAR]

In article <5611d7d1-ed91-4733-ba56-f3a7d88620f7
@k6g2000vbz.googlegroups.com>, joh...@hotmail.com says...

No. There would be too many people walking to the green and then back to
their ball.

[BAR]

In article <lloydparsons-8F39...@news.eternal-
september.org>, lloydp...@me.com says...

It is not a ROG, it is my opinion.

[mockinjay]

The problem is the perceived advantage one gets when they have the butt of
the club anchored to their body which forces a better pendulum stroke.

The difference in the transition and acceptance of metal woods is that it
was an improvement that everyone was able to use.

With long putters, some people like myself just can't use them. So you
don't have the acceptance you had with metal woods by the vast majority.

I think you can improve your putting as much by just going lead hand low,
but I can't get comfortable with that either.

______________________________________________________________________ 

[Howard Brazee]

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 00:37:57 -0800 (PST), johnty <joh...@hotmail.com>

wrote:

>> >There is a skill in using any putter, long or short, in the hands or
>> >against the chin or chest. What should be outlawed is caddies lining
>> >them up. (and for any shot, not just putts.)
>>
>> Agreed.  2/3 of the skill of a putt is in the read, it should be the
>> player's read.
>>
>
>And in the same spirit would you ban all distance measuring aids,
>including marker posts?

I like that idea. It was nice when course designers tried to fool
us. But it gives a big advantage for playing one's home course.

Course books matter, and experience in playing courses matter.

[MNMikew]

"Lloyd" <lloydp...@me.com> wrote in message
news:lloydparsons-2C4E...@news.eternal-september.org...

The last real wood I had was a 5-wood that I retired a long time ago. I do
have a couple tucked away up in my garage rafters. Might have to dust them
off and give it a try.

[Baldy Man]

No... The R&A define distance as a matter of public knowledge. Anyone
can pace that out. The line of a putt is not a measurable. It is a
matter of opinion and that is what is banned.

If you ban distance measurement then you have to ban course planners
and caddies. Why should they offer advice as to which club....

Knowledge of distance does not mean you will hit the ball in the right
direction. And that alignment is part of the players skill. The caddy
should not interfere with that.

[dugjustdug]

On Feb 8, 3:12 pm, "MNMikew" <MNMiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> "Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4fu5j7tg93fotuds6...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
>
>

> > On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:32:38 -0600, "MNMikew" <MNMiik...@aol.com>

> > wrote:
>
> >>>>More to the point : what's he got against long putters?
>
> >>> It makes the game easier and doesn't look right.
>
> >>What? How does it make it easier? Doesn't look right?
>
> > Some people have some putting faults with conventional putters that
> > don't show up with longer putters.   "Looks right" is subjective.
>
> >>> Which are good reasons for making metalwoods illegal.
>
> >>There is NO reason to make metalwoods illegal. NONE. Perhaps we should go
> >>back to feather stuffed leather balls to.
>
> > I shouldn't have said "good".    But the same logic that people have
> > against long putters applies equally well (or poorly) against
> > metalwoods.  (They don't sound right).
>
> Howard, when is the last time you heard the sound of a persimmion wood on a
> golf course?
>
>
>

> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Mike - You need to come play with me sometime! (I carry a 3 & 5
persimmon and love 'em! :-)

Annika Sorenstam had a good take on the long putter controversy. She
said that part of the game is nerves and how you control them. By not
anchoring the putter to your body, the nerves will have greater impact
on a shot (v. an anchored putter regardless of length).

[MNMikew]

"dugjustdug" <prestig...@yvn.com> wrote in message
news:16b195cd-0dca-45bb...@n7g2000pbd.googlegroups.com...

-------------------
What type of shafts do you have on them? The persimmons I have stashed in
the garage are old stiff steel shafts. I cant remember the last time I used
a steel shafted wood.

[johnty]

On Feb 9, 3:38 pm, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
> >And in the same spirit would you ban all distance measuring aids,
> >including marker posts?
>
> I like that idea.   It was nice when course designers tried to fool
> us.

Me, too. I sometimes play a course with no markers at all, it adds to
the fun.

I think it's a good part of golfing skill to eyeball all distances.

[johnty]

On Feb 9, 5:37 pm, Baldy Man <baldy...@thebarbers.com> wrote:
>
> No... The R&A define distance as a matter of public knowledge.
> Anyone can pace that out. The line of a putt is not a measurable. It is a
> matter of opinion and that is what is banned.
>

Sorry, what is banned?

[dugjustdug]

On Feb 9, 10:36 am, "MNMikew" <MNMiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> "dugjustdug" <prestigerea...@yvn.com> wrote in message

> a steel shafted wood.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Both are Louisville Golf products built in 1998 according to what I
could tell from eBay sales. One's a step-steel S300 Stiff and the
other is a stiff graphite. Both are whipped at the hozzel - damned
pritty to my eye. What they lack in sweetspot they make up for in
gearing effect. I started playing them for the weight (heavy-headed)
and they seem to come through for me. YMMV.

Lloyd Parsons in this group kinda convinced me to try them frankly.
Purchased in 2005. I had my doubts, but, quickly grew to love them.
I've tried replacing the 3-wood a couple of times with metals and
didn't notice a significant difference in length though I was not as
consistent with the metals (likely due to head weight).

[Lloyd]

In article
<4620d7b1-9f01-484b...@jn12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

My Louisville driver is a Rifle 6.5 shaft, the other woods are all
regular flex, step-steel shafts. All have whipped hosels except the 5
wood which is the newer Niblick design.

I don't use the driver as much as I used to with the set as I prefer my
Cobra S2, but the fairway woods are all persimmon.

The 3 wood is a Ginty design. Basically similar to the old pear heads
with a canoe shaped sole plate. They don't sell that any more since
Calloway bought the patent and won't license it. They way they sold the
ones they did was that they had a bunch of sole plates and could use
them till they ran out.

[dugjustdug]

On Feb 9, 11:49 am, Lloyd <lloydpars...@me.com> wrote:
> The 3 wood is a Ginty design.

I have their 7-wood like that. And, they call it a "Niblick" - term
usually reserved for the 7-8-9 Irons. :-)

[MNMikew]

"dugjustdug" <prestig...@yvn.com> wrote in message

news:4620d7b1-9f01-484b...@jn12g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...

---------------------------------
That's the main reason I still hit the old Callaway Steelhead fairway woods,
head weight. They were much heavier than most others out there at the time.

[Lloyd]

In article
<dbf47d66-8101-46e0...@lr19g2000pbb.googlegroups.com>,

The Ginty design is slightly different and much older than their Niblick
design. I have both designs in my bag.

[dugjustdug]

On Feb 9, 2:10 pm, "MNMikew" <MNMiik...@aol.com> wrote:
> That's the main reason I still hit the old Callaway Steelhead fairway woods,
> head weight. They were much heavier than most others out there at the time.

Oh Man, I used their 4-wood for a while. Really liked that club!

[someone]

Howard Brazee wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:12:18 -0500, "someone" <som...@somewhere.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>> Tiger has proposed a change to the ROG, saying that a putter cannot
>>> be longer than the shortest club in the bag.
>>>
>>> I know putters can be different from other clubs in having hitting
>>> surfaces on each side - but I also know we can putt with a driver.
>>>
>>> He wants to make belly and long putters illegal. But couldn't we
>>> use a 4-iron as a belly putter?
>>

>> More to the point : what's he got against long putters?
>
> It makes the game easier and doesn't look right.

I've never thought that the game of golf is easy. To me, there
are just too many rules and downright deadly ones like finding
your ball in a divot. No matter what kind of putter you are
using, you still have to 'read the green' and exercise a skilfull
putt. However, I agree that some sort of conformity in clubs
is necessary and if long putters are banned, so be it. We
could go even further by ruling that on the (e.g.) PGA Tour
that all players play with identical clubs. One brand one week,
one brand another, or all use the same ball. Afterall it is the
skill of the players 'to play the game' that is of paramount
importance.

[Frank Ketchum]

"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message

news:kk96j79qap3pa8k9a...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 19:09:14 -0500, "Frank Ketchum"
> <nos...@thanksanyway.com> wrote:
>
>>> It's been a while. I'm comparing today's argument with the arguments
>>> of 3-4 decades ago.
>>
>>It's really not the same thing. Some of the points against it may be the
>>same or similar but the issue is not the same.
>
> I guess we'll agree to disagree.

I don't agree to that. :)

[Carbon]

I had a set of Ping Eye2 laminated woods that I only retired within the
last few years, and then only because they were becoming really ratty.
They were among the first larger headed woods and were very easy to hit
for the time.

I loved those woods, especially the 3w and 5w. They had rounded soles
and I could dig the ball out of surprisingly bad lies. I used to play
one course and I actually aimed at this giant fairway bunker at the
dogleg of a par-5. A bad lie and I'd lay up with a 7i. A good lie and I
could reach the green.

[Howard Brazee]

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 12:36:10 -0600, "MNMikew" <MNMi...@aol.com>
wrote:

>Mike - You need to come play with me sometime! (I carry a 3 & 5
>persimmon and love 'em! :-)
>
>Annika Sorenstam had a good take on the long putter controversy. She
>said that part of the game is nerves and how you control them. By not
>anchoring the putter to your body, the nerves will have greater impact
>on a shot (v. an anchored putter regardless of length).

And by not playing with a "wood" with a bigger sweet spot, nerves will
have a greater impact on a shot.

[Lloyd]

In article <pan.2012.02...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>,

If you ever get the urge to use them again and want them refinished,
talk to Louisville Golf. They used to offer that service even for other
brand clubs.

[Carbon]

I might just do that. Thanks!

[Alan Baker]

In article <tav5j7501km4h7h56...@4ax.com>,
bkn...@conramp.net wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 16:35:27 -0600, "MNMikew" <MNMi...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> ><bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
> >news:c1t5j79d8fi0t6ome...@4ax.com...

> >> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:12:18 -0500, "someone" <som...@somewhere.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Howard Brazee wrote:
> >>>> Tiger has proposed a change to the ROG, saying that a putter cannot be
> >>>> longer than the shortest club in the bag.
> >>>>
> >>>> I know putters can be different from other clubs in having hitting
> >>>> surfaces on each side - but I also know we can putt with a driver.
> >>>>
> >>>> He wants to make belly and long putters illegal. But couldn't we use
> >>>> a 4-iron as a belly putter?
> >>>
> >>>More to the point : what's he got against long putters?
> >>

> >> There's a lot of pro golfers who have an issue with the long putters
> >> that are anchored against the body. They believe that putting should
> >> be a swinging, pendulum motion.
> >> BK
> >
> >You still get a pendulum motion with a long putter.
> >
> The issue is with anchoring a putter against your belly or chest. Then
> it isn't a pendulum swing.
>
> BK

Sorry, Bobby.

But a real pendulum is anchored at its pivot to something...

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

[Moderate]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <tav5j7501km4h7h56...@4ax.com>,
> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>>
>> The issue is with anchoring a putter against your belly or chest. Then
>> it isn't a pendulum swing.
>>
>> BK
>
> Sorry, Bobby.
>
> But a real pendulum is anchored at its pivot to something...

It is not anchored at three points

[dugjustdug]

I looked into that with LG a couple years ago. I remember the cost
being pretty close to that of a new club. Might be worth it for the
nostalgic value. YMMV.

I have a local clubmaker who finishes persimmons. Send em out to me!
I promise to only play "several" rounds with them to make sure the
refurb was done right. Bwaaahahaha! :-)

On Feb 9, 8:25 pm, Carbon <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:06:58 -0600, Lloyd wrote:

> > In article <pan.2012.02.10.01.31...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com>, Carbon

> > <nob...@nospam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:56:09 -0600, MNMikew wrote:

> >>> "Lloyd" <lloydpars...@me.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:lloydparsons-2C4E...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>>> In article <9pgdrfFef...@mid.individual.net>, "MNMikew"

[Lloyd]

In article
<2d830ef2-e391-4516...@x6g2000pbk.googlegroups.com>,

dugjustdug <prestig...@yvn.com> wrote:

> I looked into that with LG a couple years ago. I remember the cost
> being pretty close to that of a new club. Might be worth it for the
> nostalgic value. YMMV.
>
> I have a local clubmaker who finishes persimmons. Send em out to me!
> I promise to only play "several" rounds with them to make sure the
> refurb was done right. Bwaaahahaha! :-)

You must buy really cheap clubs!! :)

Last time I had my driver refinished it was $45 including return
shipping.

[Lloyd]

In article
<lloydparsons-A88E...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Here's a link to the refinish/repair page :

http://www.louisvillegolf.com/index.php/cPath/29?osCsid=92surcv144jj3o3kf
vuvhgtuv7

They have gone up (what the hell hasn't?), and it doesn't mention
shipping.

So which quality wood did you buy for $60?? :)

OK, ebay right?

[Howard Brazee]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>
wrote:

>> But a real pendulum is anchored at its pivot to something...
>
>It is not anchored at three points

The pendulum of a clock has an anchor, and something that pushes it.

My long putter has one hand anchoring it to my chest, and my other
hand pushes it.

[Moderate]

Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:52:50 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> But a real pendulum is anchored at its pivot to something...
>>
>> It is not anchored at three points
>
> The pendulum of a clock has an anchor, and something that pushes it.
>
> My long putter has one hand anchoring it to my chest, and my other
> hand pushes it.

You push with your hand to putt?

It looks like the butt of the club is anchored to the chest and the shaft
is anchored with two hands. Three points.

[Alan Baker]

In article <1420782822350567339.0...@news.aioe.org>,

It's not anchored at two either, so...

[dugjustdug]

On Feb 10, 6:34 am, Lloyd <lloydpars...@me.com> wrote:
> In article
> <2d830ef2-e391-4516-bb26-4bceada0c...@x6g2000pbk.googlegroups.com>,

>
>  dugjustdug <prestigerea...@yvn.com> wrote:
> > I looked into that with LG a couple years ago.  I remember the cost
> > being pretty close to that of a new club.  Might be worth it for the
> > nostalgic value.  YMMV.
>
> > I have a local clubmaker who finishes persimmons.  Send em out to me!
> > I promise to only play "several" rounds with them to make sure the
> > refurb was done right.  Bwaaahahaha!  :-)
>
>  You must buy really cheap clubs!!  :)
>
> Last time I had my driver refinished it was $45 including return
> shipping.

They were quoting me around $100 for my 5-wood. The Niblicks and 50's
Series (which was closest to the design I had FWIW) were about $75
more at the time. I decided to keep on keepin' on.

[Howard Brazee]

I was reading an article in the January Golf Digest by Jaime Diaz
about why the U.S. no longer dominates pro golf.

He noted that the primary differentiator between the best and the rest
was ball striking, but now it is putting.

This is because of better equipment, making mis-hits not so important
as before. I propose that the biggest element in this is metal
woods.

When Tiger dominated, he was the best putter in the world. Today's
winners are the players whose putting game is on.

If putters get the same kind of improvement that striking had, then
this differentiator won't be so important either.

[Howard Brazee]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:50:25 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>
wrote:

>> The pendulum of a clock has an anchor, and something that pushes it.
>>
>> My long putter has one hand anchoring it to my chest, and my other
>> hand pushes it.
>
>You push with your hand to putt?
>
>It looks like the butt of the club is anchored to the chest and the shaft
>is anchored with two hands. Three points.

"Push" might be the wrong word. One hand holds the top of the club,
and that hand is touching my chest (the club doesn't touch my chest).
That's the anchor point of the pendulum. The other hand is like the
power source of the pendulum.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:02:25 -0700, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:50:25 +0000 (UTC), Moderate <nos...@nomail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>> The pendulum of a clock has an anchor, and something that pushes it.
>>>
>>> My long putter has one hand anchoring it to my chest, and my other
>>> hand pushes it.
>>
>>You push with your hand to putt?
>>
>>It looks like the butt of the club is anchored to the chest and the shaft
>>is anchored with two hands. Three points.
>
>"Push" might be the wrong word. One hand holds the top of the club,
>and that hand is touching my chest (the club doesn't touch my chest).
>That's the anchor point of the pendulum. The other hand is like the
>power source of the pendulum.

All of that is irrelevant Howard. The main issue is that if the
putter is anchored in any way that steadies it there is a departure
from the grip that is standard. That makes it an advantage which I
consider unfair. Consistency is something that the USGA has always
championed, and this grip is a departure from the norm.

BK

[Alan Baker]

In article <iaraj7pl3kikqbin2...@4ax.com>,

You mean such as when someone steadies their grip by holding the putter
grip to his lead forearm with his other hand?

Even a lead hand low putter grip is a "departure from the norm", Bobby.

[dugjustdug]

> BK- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

A lot of Claw and Left Hand Low users out there with standard length
putters. I'd always heard it was to increase stability of the putting
stroke. Not sure what the answer is here...

[Alan Baker]

In article
<2506b78d-929b-4a67...@tj4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

I'm not sure we really NEED an answer.

Long putters are hardly taking over.

[Howard Brazee]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:30:30 -0600, bkn...@conramp.net wrote:

>All of that is irrelevant Howard. The main issue is that if the
>putter is anchored in any way that steadies it there is a departure
>from the grip that is standard. That makes it an advantage which I
>consider unfair. Consistency is something that the USGA has always
>championed, and this grip is a departure from the norm.

The sub thread I was responding to was about the pendulum nature of
the swing.

I already made my position clear that I see the long putter issue as
being the same as the metal woods issue - except that is one that
happened decades ago. Whenever people argue against change, they
are quick to point out how "this time it's different".

[bkn...@conramp.net]

I'm not sure what the question is. It should be obvious.

The issue isn't with just stabilizing, but stabilizing by using a
part of the body that doesn't move in the putting stroke.
Anchoring to the body is what some of the pros are questioning, and I
agree.

Langer used to his wrist as a help, but his putter wasn't steadied
by the body in any way. There's a pic of his grip on this page.

http://sirshanksalot.com/putting-drills-golf-drills-87/1356-how-to-make-the-perfect-putting-grip
BK

[Alan Baker]

In article <jd5bj792h10flpg2d...@4ax.com>,

But every part of the body moves in the putting stroke... ...it really
is a question of degree.

> Anchoring to the body is what some of the pros are questioning, and I
> agree.
>
> Langer used to his wrist as a help, but his putter wasn't steadied
> by the body in any way. There's a pic of his grip on this page.

He used his entire forearm, and last time I checked, the forearm is a
part of the body.

:-)

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:32:28 -0800, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
wrote:

You know exactly what I meant ,but you can't help yourself.

Because of your nice private email I took you out of my kill file, but
you just don't listen. You'd rather pick fly shit out of pepper and
keep an argument going than use your head and cause animosity.

The next time you wonder why people pile on you remember this.
Re-Plonk

BK

[Alan Baker]

In article <d19bj75kmc8hsspfi...@4ax.com>,

Can't help myself how?

I disagree that there is a fundamental difference between placing your
hand against your chest or placing it around your other forearm. Both
are unconventional ways to grip the club that help to produced a
steadier stroke in the opinions of those who use them.

You see one as a problem and the other as not.

>
> Because of your nice private email I took you out of my kill file, but
> you just don't listen. You'd rather pick fly shit out of pepper and
> keep an argument going than use your head and cause animosity.
>
> The next time you wonder why people pile on you remember this.
> Re-Plonk

Here I am having an honest discussion about golf, Bobby. Just what the
hell is so wrong with that?

[dugjustdug]

> http://sirshanksalot.com/putting-drills-golf-drills-87/1356-how-to-ma...

> BK- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

To me (at least), it falls to whether anchoring to the body via a
longer putter creates an unfair advantage. Very subjective, I
realize.

We cannot use (for example) a 600 cc driver head with a forgiving
sweetspot the size of Texas because ROG prohibits. The same could be
made so by limiting the length of the putter shaft to that of the
shortest club in your bag.

What other abuses could come from it? At least Adam Scott had the
common sense not to use his stand-up putter for a 2 club-length
Unplayable Lie drop in a recent tourney I watched, but, is there
anything prohibiting him from doing so? If he did, would it be
"fair"?

I fully realize my bias is Tradition. I would hope the governing
authorities rule on it so the debate can be put to bed. Their
inaction is a decision in itself, so, I try not get too worked up
about it.

[Alan Baker]

In article
<843ed251-4006-4955...@x6g2000pbk.googlegroups.com>,

To go by a very recent post made here, it would seem it gets some people
very worked up, but I really don't understand the fuss, myself.

Some relatively few people have switched to the long putter, so it
clearly is not some instant panacea for everyone's putting woes.

It doesn't change the essential nature of striking the golf ball with an
implement that you moves in an arc at the opposite end of which you are
holding it.

To me, golf is still golf with the long putter.

[Dene]

On Feb 10, 11:37 am, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:

>
> Even a lead hand low putter grip is a "departure from the norm", Bobby.
>
> --
> Alan Baker
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
> sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

BK has you plonked. Duh!

-Greg

[Dene]

On Feb 10, 3:43 pm, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:

>
> > Because of your nice private email I took you out of my kill file, but
> > you just don't listen.  You'd rather pick fly shit out of pepper and
> > keep an argument going than use your head and  cause animosity.
>
> >    The next time you wonder why people pile on you remember this.
> > Re-Plonk
>
> Here I am having an honest discussion about golf, Bobby. Just what the
> hell is so wrong with that?
>
> --
> Alan Baker
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
> sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

Honest?!? LOL!
Wish GG allowed me to plonk your troll bait.

-Greg

[Alan Baker]

In article
<8938eb49-4ee5-4256...@o4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

Yes, Greg: honest.

I think that there is a lot of sound and fury about long putters that is
unwarranted.

Bobby tends to try and make arguments that are really based on his
emotional response sound like they're factually based, so I replied with
how his supposedly factual objection to long putters was based on a
flawed premise by pointing out similar facts for other methods.

I realize I've used words you probably need to look up (such as
"premise"), so I'll wait a while for you to reply.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:55:51 -0800 (PST), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

He's a head shaker to me. Probably a good guy to hang out with or
play golf, but just don't have an opinion with which he disagrees.
He'll poke and pry and find any small nuance to further an argument,
and he admits that its for arguments sake.

Hell, I just happen to agree with some of the golf professionals about
the belly putter...but couldn't care less if they remain in play. It's
just an opinion.

Whew.

BK

[Alan Baker]

In article <srbbj75tfkt12h0do...@4ax.com>,

bkn...@conramp.net wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:55:51 -0800 (PST), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Feb 10, 11:37 am, Alan Baker <alangba...@telus.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Even a lead hand low putter grip is a "departure from the norm", Bobby.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Alan Baker
> >> Vancouver, British Columbia
> >> "If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> >> to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
> >> sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
> >
> >BK has you plonked. Duh!
> >
> >-Greg
>
> He's a head shaker to me. Probably a good guy to hang out with or
> play golf, but just don't have an opinion with which he disagrees.
> He'll poke and pry and find any small nuance to further an argument,
> and he admits that its for arguments sake.

No, Bobby.

I was just making a point.

>
> Hell, I just happen to agree with some of the golf professionals about
> the belly putter...but couldn't care less if they remain in play. It's
> just an opinion.

And you supported your opinion with:

It isn't the way we used to do it.

You're using something other than the hands to control the club.

Well it isn't the only think that that applies to, so I pointed that out.

That's all.

[Dene]

On Feb 10, 4:05 pm, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:55:51 -0800 (PST), Dene <gdst...@aol.com>

You nailed him and the situation perfectly. I really doubt if he has
an authentic opinion about the belly putter....or any issue. He's
trolling....for reasons I'll never understand.

-Greg

[Alan Baker]

In article
<dc3cb72f-6ce3-4d81...@rz3g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

I do have a real opinion, Greg.

But you sort of have to stick with your fantasy now, don't you?

[Kenn Smith]

What is a putter? It is an instrument designed by the Devil, refined in
Hell and turned loose on an unwitting population in order to ruin a
perfectly good round of golf.

[Dene]

Ain't that the truth. What could be worse than a well struck drive,
on the green in regulation, and then a 3 putt.

A week ago, I put one 3 feet away on a 185 yd. par 3 and slinked away
with a bogie.

-Greg

[kenpitts]

I must be in leagues with the Devil. On the day of my career round (in
a tournament BTW), the greens were as smooth as the finest felt on a
Brunswick billiards table and the holes looked as big as a wash tub. I
probably made 200 ft of putts that day.

Oh well.

Ken

[Don A Roof]

Ben Hogan is said to have felt that a putt should count no more than
half a stroke. It might still be too much for me.

Agree: there is almost nothing worse than messing up a well-played
tee-to-green hole with a miserable exhibition with the putter.

Good to see the return of "golf content" to RSG lately.

[johnty]

On Feb 10, 11:44 pm, dugjustdug <prestigerea...@yvn.com> wrote:
> On Feb 10, 2:24 pm, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > >> All of that is irrelevant Howard.  The main issue is that if the
> > >> putter is anchored in any way that steadies it there is a departure
> > >> from the grip that is standard.   That makes it an advantage which I
> > >> consider unfair.  Consistency is something that the USGA has always
> > >> championed, and this grip is a departure from the norm.
>
>
>

> >  The issue isn't with just stabilizing, but stabilizing by using a
> > part of the body that doesn't move in the putting stroke.
> > Anchoring to the body  is what some of the pros are questioning, and I
> > agree.
>

But there's no issue with the RoG. The rules have never been
concerned with how an individual makes his stroke, only that the
clubhead makes a fair strike. It seems to me any controversy is
stirred up only by those who don't like it.

>
> To me (at least), it falls to whether anchoring to the body via a
> longer putter creates an unfair advantage.  Very subjective, I
> realize.

> I fully realize my bias is Tradition.  I would hope the governing
> authorities rule on it so the debate can be put to bed.

They have. It is legal.

[Lloyd]

In article
<0c6fb7df-5c15-4ee6...@o4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,

Our course is extremely soggy, so play has been not as much fun as it
could be.

The greens are very furry since you can't keep them in almost summer
like condition this time of year, so putting can be so frustrating. One
green read will show a break that won't take because of the softness and
the next will take a huge break that you don't see. Frustrating!!

And I hate it when it all lines up perfect, the ball rolls true to the
hole and stops on the damn lip!! :(

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 05:54:48 -0800 (PST), johnty <joh...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Feb 10, 11:44 pm, dugjustdug <prestigerea...@yvn.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 10, 2:24 pm, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > >> All of that is irrelevant Howard.  The main issue is that if the
>> > >> putter is anchored in any way that steadies it there is a departure
>> > >> from the grip that is standard.   That makes it an advantage which I
>> > >> consider unfair.  Consistency is something that the USGA has always
>> > >> championed, and this grip is a departure from the norm.
>>
>>
>>
>> >  The issue isn't with just stabilizing, but stabilizing by using a
>> > part of the body that doesn't move in the putting stroke.
>> > Anchoring to the body  is what some of the pros are questioning, and I
>> > agree.
>>
>
>But there's no issue with the RoG. The rules have never been
>concerned with how an individual makes his stroke, only that the
>clubhead makes a fair strike. It seems to me any controversy is
>stirred up only by those who don't like it.
>

That's always the case. The rules never were concerned with someone
straddling the putting line until it became an issue.

It depends on how this controversy grows.

>>
>> To me (at least), it falls to whether anchoring to the body via a
>> longer putter creates an unfair advantage.  Very subjective, I
>> realize.
>
>> I fully realize my bias is Tradition.  I would hope the governing
>> authorities rule on it so the debate can be put to bed.
>
>
>They have. It is legal.

LOL. It isn't put to bed yet. It may just fade away, but
then.......???

BK

[johnty]

On Feb 11, 3:02 pm, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
>
> >They have.  It is legal.
>
> LOL.  It isn't put to bed  yet.

The thing is, Bobby, it isn't, as far as I know, causing any
controversy among highly placed people in the rules world (and I know
a few of them). It seems to be based on opinion, not interpretation
of the rules.

I personally don't have a problem with long putter users; it's not as
if the winner's circle is dominated by them so I'm not really
convinced there's a tangible advantage to having one. But if there
was, it is an advantage available to all players and thus 'fair'.

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:47:48 -0800 (PST), johnty <joh...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

This issue didn't arise in RSG but from some of the touring pros. In
fact, this isn't new its been around for a while. The RandA has been
thinking about the change too. Google "long putter issue".

Two thoughts are the reason for detractors; eliminating wrist action (
a problem for poor putters) by anchoring to one's torso, and the
tradition issue. I know that Els has been critical of their use and
lately Tiger has mentioned it, offering the idea to limit them to a
certain length.

As far as how many are using them there was a similar situation with
only one person (Sam Snead) in straddling the line of a putt and the
rule was changed. I didn't see an advantage there.

It all depends on whether or not the pros get behind a change.

[Alan Baker]

In article <d0fdj7tmmfh9quise...@4ax.com>,

bkn...@conramp.net wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:47:48 -0800 (PST), johnty <joh...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Feb 11, 3:02 pm, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
> >>
> >> >They have.  It is legal.
> >>
> >> LOL.  It isn't put to bed  yet.
> >
> >The thing is, Bobby, it isn't, as far as I know, causing any
> >controversy among highly placed people in the rules world (and I know
> >a few of them). It seems to be based on opinion, not interpretation
> >of the rules.
> >
> >I personally don't have a problem with long putter users; it's not as
> >if the winner's circle is dominated by them so I'm not really
> >convinced there's a tangible advantage to having one. But if there
> >was, it is an advantage available to all players and thus 'fair'.
>
> This issue didn't arise in RSG but from some of the touring pros. In
> fact, this isn't new its been around for a while. The RandA has been
> thinking about the change too. Google "long putter issue".
>
> Two thoughts are the reason for detractors; eliminating wrist action (
> a problem for poor putters) by anchoring to one's torso, and the
> tradition issue. I know that Els has been critical of their use and
> lately Tiger has mentioned it, offering the idea to limit them to a
> certain length.

Except that anchoring the putter to the forearm also eliminates wrist
action, and you don't seem to mind that. To me, that seems inconsistent.

>
> As far as how many are using them there was a similar situation with
> only one person (Sam Snead) in straddling the line of a putt and the
> rule was changed. I didn't see an advantage there.
>
> It all depends on whether or not the pros get behind a change.

[Loudon Briggs]

Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:

CLIP

>
>Except that anchoring the putter to the forearm also eliminates wrist
>action, and you don't seem to mind that. To me, that seems inconsistent.

***********

Regardless of how you putt, eliminating wrist action is one of the
main components of a good stroke, so why would he mind that?
--

Loudon R. Briggs lar...@bbz.net Phoenix, AZ

"How Can You Not Like A Game Where It's Okay To
Get Teed Off, Tote A Six-Iron, Shoot Birdies,
and If You're Under Par It's A Great Day!"

(from "Frank & Ernest" by Bob Thaves -- used with permission)

[Alan Baker]

In article <rkodj7tfb82hbbpsj...@4ax.com>,

Loudon Briggs <lar...@bbz.net> wrote:

> Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>
> CLIP
> >
> >Except that anchoring the putter to the forearm also eliminates wrist
> >action, and you don't seem to mind that. To me, that seems inconsistent.
> ***********
>
> Regardless of how you putt, eliminating wrist action is one of the
> main components of a good stroke, so why would he mind that?

Don't ask me.

He decided that simply disagreeing with him about this was reason enough
to killfile me.

:-)

[Howard Brazee]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:33:44 -0600, bkn...@conramp.net wrote:

>Two thoughts are the reason for detractors; eliminating wrist action (
>a problem for poor putters) by anchoring to one's torso, and the
>tradition issue. I know that Els has been critical of their use and
>lately Tiger has mentioned it, offering the idea to limit them to a
>certain length.

I agree that for casual golfers, I suspect the wrist action problem is
the one where they could improve most quickly by changing to a long
putter.

--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison

[bkn...@conramp.net]

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 15:29:16 -0700, Loudon Briggs <lar...@bbz.net>
wrote:

>Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net> wrote:
>
>CLIP
>>
>>Except that anchoring the putter to the forearm also eliminates wrist
>>action, and you don't seem to mind that. To me, that seems inconsistent.
>***********
>
>Regardless of how you putt, eliminating wrist action is one of the
>main components of a good stroke, so why would he mind that?

Alan is just not very smart. Had he read my post he would've seen
that I was giving the reasons that some pros don't like the belly
putters. He wants to think that I am initiating these thoughts.

I can say that he is consistent though. As a pain.

BK

[Alan Baker]

In article <bgrdj710invv1pnl5...@4ax.com>,

So you presented those thoughts because you disagree, did you?

:-)

[Frank Ketchum]

<bkn...@conramp.net> wrote in message
news:d19bj75kmc8hsspfi...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:32:28 -0800, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <jd5bj792h10flpg2d...@4ax.com>,

>> bkn...@conramp.net wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:34:15 -0800 (PST), dugjustdug

>>> <prestig...@yvn.com> wrote:

>>>
>>> >On Feb 10, 11:30 am, bkni...@conramp.net wrote:
>>> >> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:02:25 -0700, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net>

>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:50:25 +0000 (UTC), Moderate
>>> >> ><nos...@nomail.com>
>>> >> >wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >>> The pendulum of a clock has an anchor, and something that pushes
>>> >> >>> it.
>>> >>
>>> >> >>> My long putter has one hand anchoring it to my chest, and my
>>> >> >>> other
>>> >> >>> hand pushes it.
>>> >>
>>> >> >>You push with your hand to putt?
>>> >>
>>> >> >>It looks like the butt of the club is anchored to the chest and the
>>> >> >>shaft
>>> >> >>is anchored with two hands. Three points.
>>> >>
>>> >> >"Push" might be the wrong word. One hand holds the top of the club,
>>> >> >and that hand is touching my chest (the club doesn't touch my
>>> >> >chest).
>>> >> >That's the anchor point of the pendulum. The other hand is like the
>>> >> >power source of the pendulum.
>>> >>

>>> >> All of that is irrelevant Howard. The main issue is that if the
>>> >> putter is anchored in any way that steadies it there is a departure
>>> >> from the grip that is standard. That makes it an advantage which I
>>> >> consider unfair. Consistency is something that the USGA has always
>>> >> championed, and this grip is a departure from the norm.
>>> >>

>>> >> BK- Hide quoted text -
>>> >>
>>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>> >
>>> >A lot of Claw and Left Hand Low users out there with standard length
>>> >putters. I'd always heard it was to increase stability of the putting
>>> >stroke. Not sure what the answer is here...
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what the question is. It should be obvious.
>>>

>>> The issue isn't with just stabilizing, but stabilizing by using a
>>> part of the body that doesn't move in the putting stroke.
>>

>>But every part of the body moves in the putting stroke... ...it really
>>is a question of degree.
>>

>>> Anchoring to the body is what some of the pros are questioning, and I
>>> agree.
>>>

>>> Langer used to his wrist as a help, but his putter wasn't steadied
>>> by the body in any way. There's a pic of his grip on this page.
>>

>>He used his entire forearm, and last time I checked, the forearm is a
>>part of the body.
>>
>>:-)
>
> You know exactly what I meant ,but you can't help yourself.
>

> Because of your nice private email I took you out of my kill file, but
> you just don't listen. You'd rather pick fly shit out of pepper and
> keep an argument going than use your head and cause animosity.
>
> The next time you wonder why people pile on you remember this.
> Re-Plonk

Now that's funny. After reading Alan's post I asked myself why do I keep
this clown out of my killfile? His only reason for existing is to argue.
Then I clicked on your post where you killfiled him. lol

Great minds think alike.

And so do we.

[Frank Ketchum]

"Howard Brazee" <how...@brazee.net> wrote in message
news:fvp7j717016tsenbo...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 00:37:57 -0800 (PST), johnty <joh...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> >There is a skill in using any putter, long or short, in the hands or
>>> >against the chin or chest. What should be outlawed is caddies lining
>>> >them up. (and for any shot, not just putts.)
>>>
>>> Agreed. 2/3 of the skill of a putt is in the read, it should be the
>>> player's read.
>>>
>>
>>And in the same spirit would you ban all distance measuring aids,
>>including marker posts?
>
> I like that idea.

I've heard this idea many times.

I have yet to hear it from someone who is actually a good golfer.



> It was nice when course designers tried to fool
> us. But it gives a big advantage for playing one's home course.
>
> Course books matter, and experience in playing courses matter.