Most *VICIOUS* Hit Ever
Steven W Dillon
I don't remember much of the details (player's names,
the opposing team, etc.), but I do remember a hit I
seen in the early 70's inflicted upon a Detroit WR.
He was in the air making a leaping catch and was spiked
in the back by the defensive player's helmet. It was a
crushing blow that left the receiver instantly unconscious;
he died about 4 hours later. I'm sure it was the first
time that I had seen someone killed during a sporting event
(I wasn't very old).
Anybody else remember seeing this?? Anybody else ever see
a hit like that??
Andre S. Elliott
quaterback of the Detroit Lions. I think the QB was Krammer (#17). Marshall
hit him so hard the refs gave him a penalty for it.
--
--------------
Dre. (elli...@ccfsun.nrl.navy.mil)
"Your awesome capacity to discombobulate has me totally captivated. Now
please release me." - College teacher to his student.
Joe Sterbenc
: I don't remember much of the details (player's names,
I really doubt this ever happened. The last Detroit Lion to die on the
field was an offensive lineman. I believe it was around '73; maybe that's
what you're thinking of. He died of a heart attack, though.
Being as young as you were, I suspect your memory may be a bit fuzzy.
Timothy Murphy
Steven W Dillon@speedy.i writes:
Says here in The Sports Encyclopedia of Pro Football, under 1971
N.F.C., Detroit Lions:
"One tragic note of the season was the death of Chuck Hughes, who
collapsed of a heart attack on the field in full view of millions."
Then, in the team roster,
*Chuck Hughes WR 5'11" 175 pounds age 28
*Died Oct. 24, 1971 - Heart Attack
Sounds like the incident you saw, but no mention of the defensive
hit that may have caused it. Anyone else have more information on this?
Tim Murphy
Gary L. Blickhan
What you must be talking about was the death of Lions WR Chuck Hughes,
who died on October 24, 1971. He collapsed on the field of a heart
attack, and he had only one catch that year for 32 yards.
--
Gary Blickhan --Go Bills!!! Before Bo Jackson, there was the one and only
Stormin' GORMAN THOMAS! He played baseball, football, basketball, track,
bowling, billiards, golf, and then some. (not all professionally, of course.)
He didn't endorse a company because he'd have to wear all those shoes at once!.
Joe Sterbenc
(Still don't think a hit killed him, though.)
Madison R Smith
>How about the hit that Wilbur Marshall, then with the Bears, placed on the
>quaterback of the Detroit Lions. I think the QB was Krammer (#17). Marshall
>hit him so hard the refs gave him a penalty for it.
No they didn't. In fact the only outcome of that hit was that another Lions
QB had to be brought into the game. The ref who saw the hit thought it was
perfectly legal. The league office, however, after looking at it several times
ruled that it was a blatant spear by Wilbur and docked him about $5,000 for it.
Madison Smith
TheM...@uiuc.edu
Clifford T. Tanaka
after he threw the ball (maybe even after the play was dead) and slam
him to the ground? McMahon suffered a separated shoulder or something
like that.
Cliff.
Paul R Krueger
salty
Frank Zorn
Butkus gave the same player a good shot on the previous play. It's a
little foggy in my mind, but I remember the guy dying. Actually, I'm not
so sure the guy got hit during the play he collapsed in.
Very sad.
131N50000-MaddenTC(DR2071)40
>s...@speedy.inri.com (Steven W Dillon) writes:
>
>
>>I don't remember much of the details (player's names,
>>the opposing team, etc.), but I do remember a hit I
>>seen in the early 70's inflicted upon a Detroit WR.
>>He was in the air making a leaping catch and was spiked
>>in the back by the defensive player's helmet. It was a
>>crushing blow that left the receiver instantly unconscious;
>>he died about 4 hours later. I'm sure it was the first
>>time that I had seen someone killed during a sporting event
>>(I wasn't very old).
>
>>Anybody else remember seeing this?? Anybody else ever see
>>a hit like that??
>
>What you must be talking about was the death of Lions WR Chuck Hughes,
>who died on October 24, 1971. He collapsed on the field of a heart
>attack, and he had only one catch that year for 32 yards.
>
There was no hit involved. He collapsed and died while running a pass
route, well away from the action. I believe a DB had to call attention
to the situation. I remember film showing trainers/doctors feverishly
administering CPR on the field, and then taking him off before a
totally silent crowd. Autopsy reports were that Hughes had "the heart
of a 70-year-old", i.e. badly deteriorated. I picked up on Chuck
Hughes when he played for the Eagles - I don't recall how he wound up
with the Lions.
Anyone remember Lucien Reberg? George Plimpton gave him a lot of
coverage in PAPER LION. A lineman with lots of potential who died of
uremic poisioning after his rookie year with the Lions (early 60's??)
Tom
____________________________________________________________________
Thomas C. Madden t...@drutx.att.com AT&T Bell Laboratories Denver
These are my opinions only!!
Richard Webb
I thought it was Tim Harris, but that doesn't matter. What matters is the
misconception about the results of that play (and the legality of it). The
ball had been intercepted, so (as all good defenders are taught) the defender
was blocking the nearest man, who happened to be the quarterback. He was
definitely a little too enthusiastic about it, which makes it unsportsmanlike
conduct rather than a late hit (although I believe the refs did rule it a
late hit). When I was in college we were taught to lay the lumber on the
nearest man and put the fear of God into him after an interception.
Secondly, all involved (McMahon, Bears team doctor, and Dr. Frank Jobe) agreed
that McMahon was suffering from a degenerative condition in his rotator cuff
and this singular incident in all likely-hood had no bearing on the evolution
of the shoulder injury (which had evolved quite a bit by that time).
C-ya!
Richard
Kevin Hughes
From what I understand he wasn't hit on the play. He just collapsed
about 15-20 yards from the line of scrimmage. If anybody has Dick
Butkus' book Stop ACtion, there should be something about it in there.
That's where I read about it, but its been some time and i don't have
the book at work.
Kevin Hughes
Kevin Hughes
Kevin Hughes
have been tossed and was definitely fined. Anybody else have more
specifics?
Kevin
Da Man
>In article <25jrum...@uwm.edu>, pa...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>|> In article <sgTKPiW00...@andrew.cmu.edu> "Clifford T. Tanaka" <ct...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>|> >Didn't some big defensive lineman once grab Jim McMahon several seconds
>|> >after he threw the ball (maybe even after the play was dead) and slam
>|> >him to the ground? McMahon suffered a separated shoulder or something
>|> >like that.
>|>
>|> Charles Martin, Green Bay about six years ago.
>|>
>|>
>|> salty
>|>
>|>
I remeber that who ever it was had a list of Bears players on his towel and before the game when he was asked about them he said these were the people he wanted to get or something to that effect. I also remeber the anouncers commenting on the fact that one of the number was that of a defencive lineman and that they did not think he would face him which he did not because after the hit he was ejected from the game.
11mw...@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Charles Martin got tossed, suspended for two games and fined $10,000. Later,
in an update of the book, "McMAHON!", Jim wrote, "He gets $10,000 for taking me
out and I get $5,000 for wearing a stupid headband. That's justice?"
*******************************************************************************
Michael S. Warner |"Deaf people can do anything, except hear."
Gallaudet University | -- I. King Jordan
|
VAX: 11MW...@gallua.gallaudet.edu| "To be The Man, you have to BEAT The Man."
UNIX: 11mw...@gallux.gallaudet.edu| -- Ric Flair, the REAL World Champion
*******************************************************************************
JOHN HEIM
>I thought it was Tim Harris, but that doesn't matter. What matters is the
>misconception about the results of that play (and the legality of it). The
>ball had been intercepted, so (as all good defenders are taught) the defender
>was blocking the nearest man, who happened to be the quarterback. He was
>definitely a little too enthusiastic about it, which makes it unsportsmanlike
>conduct rather than a late hit (although I believe the refs did rule it a
>late hit). When I was in college we were taught to lay the lumber on the
>nearest man and put the fear of God into him after an interception.
It seems we are doomed to go over this every few months as more people
join r.s.f.p. (Maybe it should be in the FAQ.)
The player was Charles Martin and the penalty was roughing the QB
(which may have technically have been an incorrect call but no one was
in a mood to argue it). What Martin did was absolutely inexcusable --
no two ways about it. As a Packer fan, I don't think we should be
glossing over the incident. Forrest Gregg fostered an atmosphere
on the team that lead to acts like this. (The Bears under Ditka
weren't exactly choir boys but that's no excuse.) To their credit,
Packer fans gave Gregg, an NFL Hall-of-Famer, a lot of heat for this.
>Secondly, all involved (McMahon, Bears team doctor, and Dr. Frank Jobe) agreed
>that McMahon was suffering from a degenerative condition in his rotator cuff
>and this singular incident in all likely-hood had no bearing on the evolution
>of the shoulder injury (which had evolved quite a bit by that time).
I don't think they said it had *no* bearing. It was a pre-existing
condition and McMahon has been hurt many times before and since. But
I'm sure the slam didn't help any.
JGH
"Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing, then he who believes what is wrong."
- Thomas Jefferson
Paul R Krueger
>I remeber that who ever it was had a list of Bears players on his towel and before the game when he was asked about them he said these were the people he wanted to get or something to that effect. I also remeber the anouncers commenting on the fact that
>one of the number was that of a defencive lineman and that they did not think he would face him which he did not because after the hit he was ejected from the game.
I know that Martin had both McMahon and Walter Payton's number on his
towel, but I can't remember the other two guys listed. It was a pretty
massive body-slam though, would've made the Crusher proud. Although
someone commented that it was after an interception, I seem to remember
that the play was basically over and everyone was kind of standing around
relaxed when Martin pulled off his little stunt. I'm not sure, but wasn't
that the same game that Kenny Stills absolutely clocked Matt Suhey (or
was it Brad Muster--interchangeable white FBs) after a play was over?
Geez, the Packers had plenty of thugs in the days of Forrest Gregg.
salty
11mw...@gallua.gallaudet.edu
I believe that Martin had Da Fridge's #72 on the towel (If I recall correctly,
it was only numbers).
>
> Geez, the Packers had plenty of thugs in the days of Forrest Gregg.
>
No arguement here.
>
> salty
>
>
--
Steve Novak
The guy didn't get hit on the play, and I don't think any hit
contributed to it. He died, I believe, of a blood clot in an artery or
vein that was smaller then it should be.
I saw the game, too. People didn't know until later that he'd died, but
as you saw him laying there, he was indeed already dead.
--
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak | |"Surrender to the void..."|
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
ste...@advtech.USWest.Com
Steve Novak
>> = (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>|> = "Clifford T. Tanaka" <ct...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>|>Didn't some big defensive lineman once grab Jim McMahon several seconds
>|>after he threw the ball (maybe even after the play was dead) and slam
>|>him to the ground? McMahon suffered a separated shoulder or something
>|>like that.
>> Charles Martin, Green Bay about six years ago.
>I thought it was Tim Harris, but that doesn't matter.
It was Martin. I think he got unofficially blackballed from the NFL a
year later.
>What matters is the
>misconception about the results of that play (and the legality of it). The
>ball had been intercepted, so (as all good defenders are taught) the defender
>was blocking the nearest man, who happened to be the quarterback.
Sorry Richard, but...BULLSHIT. McMahon threw the interception and was
standing there. Martin came up *behind* McMahon, wrapped his arms around
him, and threw him as hard as he could onto the turf, and onto McMahon's
at that time well-known sore shoulder. It was the act of a coward and a
thug. Shithead Martin had a hit list of Bears' players' numbers on a
towel hanging from the front of his pants. McMahon's number was first.
The other shithead thug was Coach Forrest Gregg, who was quite aware of
the hit list and apparently supported it. Gregg, after all, never could
do anything against the Bears, and in my opinion was one of the dirtier
head coaches of recent time.
>He was
>definitely a little too enthusiastic about it, which makes it unsportsmanlike
>conduct rather than a late hit (although I believe the refs did rule it a
>late hit).
The ref was so pissed he grabbed Martin by the jersey and dragged him off
the field before throwing him out of the game. It was a lot more then
simple unsportsmanlike conduct.
>When I was in college we were taught to lay the lumber on the
>nearest man and put the fear of God into him after an interception.
Laying the lumber on is fine; picking a guy up *from behind* and
throwing him on an already injured part of his body is criminal.
Doak Heyser
most sickening sight I've ever seen. The Rams were playing Minnesota
in Minnesota back before the Metrodome existed but the ground was
frozen and pretty darn hard. One of the Youngblood guys (Jack or Jim -
I forget which) grabbed Tommy Kramer from behind. Tommy was a pretty
good size QB and this was back before the "in the grasp" rule.
Well, Jack or Jim falls backwards with Tommy in his arms and
whips him really hard causing Tommy's head to smash into the ground
at a great speed. The camera angle shows Youngblood getting up, walking
toward the camera, and getting slaps and congrats from his team-mates.
In the background though you could see Kramer, obviously unconscious,
flopping around like a person with epilepsy. It gave me the willys
watching this.
I'd swear on a stack of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issues that that
was the play that made them create the "in the grasp" rule.
Paul D Boxrud
:
> <Charles Martin's body slamming of Jimmy Mac deleted>
>
>>I remeber that who ever it was had a list of Bears players on his towel and b
efore the game when he was asked about them he said these were the people he wa
nted to get or something to that effect. I also remeber the anouncers commenti
ng on the fact that
>>one of the number was that of a defencive lineman and that they did not think
he would face him which he did not because after the hit he was ejected from t
he game.
>
> I know that Martin had both McMahon and Walter Payton's number on his
> towel, but I can't remember the other two guys listed. It was a pretty
> massive body-slam though, would've made the Crusher proud. Although
> someone commented that it was after an interception, I seem to remember
> that the play was basically over and everyone was kind of standing around
> relaxed when Martin pulled off his little stunt. I'm not sure, but wasn't
> that the same game that Kenny Stills absolutely clocked Matt Suhey (or
> was it Brad Muster--interchangeable white FBs) after a play was over?
>
The Kenny Stills incident was in Lambeau so it wasn't the same game. It could
have been the same year though.
> Geez, the Packers had plenty of thugs in the days of Forrest Gregg.
>
>
> salty
>
>
Paul
Frank Zorn
Bears. He was a wide receiver. I don't recall his name. And I think the
'big hit' occured on the play before he collapsed - I think by Butkus, but
I'm not sure.
Maybe someone can verify this?
Frank Zorn
Yeah, the deed was done by a crimanal named Charles Martin who played for
the Packers (I'm ashamed to say as a fan). He also had a hit list of
players' numbers written on his wrist band. McMahon's number was on the
top of the list. He was a thug. Green Bay dumped him not long after the
incident. Forrest Gregg had a knack for getting quality players like that.
Martin should have be put in jail for a crime like that. It was the cheapest
shot I've ever seen.
My opinion as a Packer fan.
Javier Escobedo
play on satruday's game against the 49ners. Grossman
has a strained neck, and is actually ok to play
But the chargers don't want to take a chance .
Seau might play only sparingly, once again they don't want
to take a chance of having him get hurt.
Vanhorse is probable for the game.
San Francisco is a 2 1/2 point favorite locally.
.
Dick Burger
a really lousy defensive back, made constant late cheap shots, and I think
the play of this single player inspired the thug rumor.
The only other incident I can remember was the famous Charles Martin body
slam, but other than this retarded action, I don't remember Martin being a
dirty player at all, just spirited and untalented.
In fact, the nastiest, meanest thing I remember about the Packers of those
years was Forrest Gregg's hideous eye twitch. That must have been awfully
unnerving to the opponents, it looked like he could be wielding an axe at any
moment!
Dick Burger
Paul D Boxrud
(Dick Burger) writes:
>> Geez, the Packers had plenty of thugs in the days of Forrest Gregg.
Wasn't Mossy Cade pretty thugish? or was that just off the field?
Paul
Kevin L. Stamber
A couple of candidates:
* Turkey Jones' spiking of Terry Bradshaw in Cleveland's Municipal
Stadium (1976?). Forced one hell of a performance by Mike
Kruczek (sp?) while Bradshaw's shoulder healed.
* Earl Campbell, Houston Astrodome; spun (I believe) by Mike Wagner
of the Steelers and then HIT (with a capital I-T) by Donnie Shell,
1979. The most vicious planting of 'the Pearl' that I recall.
* Again, Mike Wagner, last play of Supe X; Hit Dallas receiver so hard
that the ball flew 20 yards into the air before an interception by
J.T. Thomas sealed the game (or was the hit by Thomas and the
intercept by Wagner?)
Sorry for any historical or spelling errors; the hits were good.
Kevin Stamber
Purdue University
MAJOR MAJORS AND HIS CONFEDERATE MARAUDERS
Frank Zorn
was happening at about the same time as Lofton was accused of rape for the
second time, and another Gregg star, Mossey Cade, went to jail for raping
his aunt! And this was the team we were all proud of! What a great bunch
of guys.
Dick Burger
>
>Wasn't Mossy Cade pretty thugish? or was that just off the field?
Well, he had a disturbing tendency to rape relatives, but I think all of
that activity was off field.
He was a first-round draft pick, and a pretty decent defensive back. When
he left Green Bay, the Vikings picked him up, but immediately dropped
him when there wqas a public outcry about the "character issue."
DB
ASTR...@vma.cc.nd.edu
We Pack fans are just SO DAMNED PROUD. (Sarcasm mode on, please) The
Forrest Gregg legacy has thankfully died. That was one thing that I will
always be thankful to Lindy Infante for...restoring class to the team.
Anita
Rich Carreiro
>
> A couple of candidates:
>
> * Turkey Jones' spiking of Terry Bradshaw in Cleveland's Municipal
> Stadium (1976?). Forced one hell of a performance by Mike
> Kruczek (sp?) while Bradshaw's shoulder healed.
Asshole Jack Tatum of the Raiders leading in elbow first into Patriots' WR
Darryl Stingley's neck...in a friggin' EXHIBITION GAME...and paralyzing him
for life.
--
Rich Carreiro Home: (401)841-8514
rlc...@animato.network23.com
uunet.uu.net!animato!rlcarr
Dr. Norman J. LaFave
rlc...@animato.network23.com writes:
> Asshole Jack Tatum of the Raiders leading in elbow first into Patriots'
WR
> Darryl Stingley's neck...in a friggin' EXHIBITION GAME...and paralyzing
him
> for life.
No. This is the most criminal act ever consumated during a game.
Tatum should have been banned and then canned.
Norman
Dr. Norman J. LaFave
Senior Engineer
Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
Hunter Thompson
Scott Kramer
My vote goes for LT of the NYGiants knocking Joe Theismann out cold during
aMonday Night football game back in 1985. And at the same time, a leg bone
showing through the skin of Theismann.
Scott Kramer
Go Skins!!
kae...@acad.drake.edu
> In article <rlcar...@animato.network23.com> Rich Carreiro,
> rlc...@animato.network23.com writes:
>> Asshole Jack Tatum of the Raiders leading in elbow first into Patriots'
> WR
>> Darryl Stingley's neck...in a friggin' EXHIBITION GAME...and paralyzing
> him
>> for life.
>
> No. This is the most criminal act ever consumated during a game.
> Tatum should have been banned and then canned.
No. As unfortunate as the injury was, and as bad as we all feel for Stingley,
Jack Tatum did not commit a crime. He committed a 15-yard penalty in the world
of NFL Football. Everytime you put on the pads, a football player must
realize he is at risk for a career/life threatening injury. It is just the
nature of the game. Tatum's hit may have been seen as overly brutal, but
his was no more "dirty" and didn't have anymore "intent to harm" than many
of the hits leveled by NFL "trained killers." Especially playing with the
Raider mentality. The only difference is the recipient was injured severely...
but once again, those are the chances you take in the NFL. Jack
Tatum was doing his job of laying a good lick and putting fear in the receiver
so he would be hesitant the next time coming over the middle. Unfortunately,
the injury happened, but you don't play the game worrying about what might
happen... or else you'll be out of a job quick.
CALIFORNIA KENT
***************
lav...@aardvark.lerc.nasa.gov
Frank Gifford almost got killed. Can long time Giants fans
give the specifics on this?
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David John Spencer
Hasn't happened yet. Reggie White smashes the crap out of Aikman in
'93.
--ds
Indiana Jones
Scott Bryan <br...@cvm.msu.edu> wrote:
>same after that. Maybe the two of you ought to read it yourselves, and cut
>the guy some slack..... If I remember correctly, he visited Stingley several
>times in the hospital, and Darryl might have even told him that it was just a
>freak accident. Tatum didn't particularly LIKE hurting people (but he and
>Atkinson did have a knockout competition for a couple years), but he felt that
>if he laid off somewhat on his hits, he wasn't doing his job and might even be
>released by the Raiders. Do you happen to recall the game the next week -- I
In one of John Madden's books, he goes into some detail about the incident.
Tatum did feel badly, and did indeed go to the hospital. But he was not
allowed in to see Stingley (family members only). Madden got in by dressing
as a hospital worker. Tatum thought he was being barred because Stingley
did not want to see him, and never came back. Madden says that in
retrospect, he should have brought Jack in himself.
To simply brush off Tatum as an "asshole" is unfair and ignorant of the
situation. Tatum had put much harder licks on people, and that particular
hit was perfectly legal; it was simply unfortunate that Stingley was in a
bad position. As John Madden says in his book, Tatum was only doing what
he had always been told to do: hit hard. That's what made him a star in
college, what made him an all-pro in the nfl. All people who know him
personally say that Tatum is a very nice guy.
>book he said that he shouldn't even have played that game. There were others
>at that time who also called for his banning from football -- like Chuck Noll.
>Funny how it never happened, though -- maybe he didn't do anything wrong.
He didn't do anything wrong, he was just very unlucky. He was made a
scapegoat; there were others who took more cheap shots than Tatum,
but he's the one who gets crucified. As Madden put it, Tatum never hit
anyone from behind.
Max
Scott Bryan
>From: Dr. Norman J. LaFave <laf...@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov>
>Subject: Re: Most *VICIOUS* Hit Ever
>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 15:07:03 GMT
>In article <rlcar...@animato.network23.com> Rich Carreiro,
>rlc...@animato.network23.com writes:
>> Asshole Jack Tatum of the Raiders leading in elbow first into Patriots'
>WR
>> Darryl Stingley's neck...in a friggin' EXHIBITION GAME...and paralyzing
>him
>> for life.
>No. This is the most criminal act ever consumated during a game.
>Tatum should have been banned and then canned.
Criminal? How's that? His "leading in elbow first" was a maneuver called
"the Hook" which sadly was legal at the time Tatum played. Tatum himself
described how it was done in his book "They Call Me Assassin," and, near the
end of the book, went on to outline several things that should be changed
about the game to make it safer. That hit had a profound effect on Jack's
life (that's the way I saw it after reading his book), and he wasn't quite the
same after that. Maybe the two of you ought to read it yourselves, and cut
the guy some slack..... If I remember correctly, he visited Stingley several
times in the hospital, and Darryl might have even told him that it was just a
freak accident. Tatum didn't particularly LIKE hurting people (but he and
Atkinson did have a knockout competition for a couple years), but he felt that
if he laid off somewhat on his hits, he wasn't doing his job and might even be
released by the Raiders. Do you happen to recall the game the next week -- I
think it was Oakland - Vikings? Tatum felt so bad about what had happened
that he was just sort of on the field and played extremely poorly -- in his
book he said that he shouldn't even have played that game. There were others
at that time who also called for his banning from football -- like Chuck Noll.
Funny how it never happened, though -- maybe he didn't do anything wrong.
Scott
David Bernard
KK>Tatum was doing his job of laying a good lick and putting fear in the re
KK>so he would be hesitant the next time coming over the middle. Unfortunat
KK>the injury happened, but you don't play the game worrying about what mig
KK>happen... or else you'll be out of a job quick.
I agree with you that Jack Tatum was doing his job and within the rules.
Jack Tatum was a good hitter but with 37 total interceptions and only 1 TD
he falls short of Larry Wilson of the Cards or Night Train Lane of Lions,
both of whom are in Hall of Fame and better overall, IMHO. However, the 1978
pre season hit that resulted in Darryl Singley paralysis from the Pats may
have had an effect on his reputation but a toll on his long term play with
retirement at 31, and it did result in the immediate rule change against
"chucking" where previously, receivers were fail game for shots from defenders
all the way downfield until the pass was released. The Raiders in 1978 after
that incident missed the playoffs for the first time in 7 years, and an aging
line allowed Stabler to get sacked frequently and he threw the most INTs in
AFC. Tatum's INTs went down from 6 in 77 to just 3 in 78. Coach John Madden
resigned after the 78 season citing health reasons, and Tom Flores took over
for 1979.
The 1978 Darryl Singley injury resulted in a immediate change that only
allowed hitting within the first five yards off the line of scrimmage. The
slender speedsters receivers came into fashion and they only had to find their
way more than five yards to run their patterns without getting a beating.
IMHO some of these speedy guys today are lucky they didn't have to face any
of those older DBs with the old rules because they may not hold up under those
conditions. That rule along with the liberalized rule change on pass blocking
had an aim to liberalize the aerial game that had slowed with zone defenses.
BTW Tatum had his best year with INTs after he was traded in 1980 to Houston
where he got 7, but the Bum Phillips coached 11W 5L Oilers also had Stabler
and played the Raiders in playoffs and lost after Lester Hayes took a Stabler
INT in for a 20 yard TD in the wanning moments for a Oiler loss 7-27. The
Raiders went on to win Super Bowl XV with Jim Plunkett throwing two TDs,
and one of them was 80 yds to RB Kenny King who came over in Tatum trade from
the Oilers. Raiders 27 to Eagles 10. Tatum retired after 1980 with the
Darryl Singley hit still in the back of his mind and not a second Super Bowl
ring the Raiders got in 1980. Ltr...David
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The Ozone Hole BBS * SKYDIVE New Orleans! * (504)891-3142 * V.32bis/HST
Gary Rosen
> No. As unfortunate as the injury was, and as bad as we all feel for Stingley,
> Jack Tatum did not commit a crime. He committed a 15-yard penalty in the world
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> of NFL Football. Everytime you put on the pads, a football player must
> realize he is at risk for a career/life threatening injury. It is just the
> nature of the game. Tatum's hit may have been seen as overly brutal, but
> his was no more "dirty" and didn't have anymore "intent to harm" than many
> of the hits leveled by NFL "trained killers." Especially playing with the
> Raider mentality. The only difference is the recipient was injured severely...
> but once again, those are the chances you take in the NFL. Jack
In fact, as brutal as it was, I think Tatum's hit on Stingley was a legal
hit and no penalty was issued. Anyone remember for sure? BTW, I think
it was a preseason game.
- Gary Rosen
B. Gil
My recollection of the play is that Stingley was running a slant pattern which
took him straight to Tatum. The ball was thrown a little in front of Stingley
so he had to stretch out to try to make the catch. The ball, Stingley, and
Tatum met simultaneously.
I'd also like to say that when Tatum was playing, he was not considered a dirty
player. He *was* considered a hard hitter, which is completely different.
Now the other Raider safety, George Atkinson?, *was* a dirty player.
B. Gil
Pat Cameron
>In article <1993Sep3.1...@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Dr. Norman J. LaFave <laf...@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>From: Dr. Norman J. LaFave <laf...@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov>
>>Subject: Re: Most *VICIOUS* Hit Ever
>>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 15:07:03 GMT
>
>>In article <rlcar...@animato.network23.com> Rich Carreiro,
>>rlc...@animato.network23.com writes:
>>> Asshole Jack Tatum of the Raiders leading in elbow first into Patriots'
>>WR
>>> Darryl Stingley's neck...in a friggin' EXHIBITION GAME...and paralyzing
>>him
>>> for life.
>
How about Charles Martin on Jim Mcmahon? Anyone remember this. It was
several seconds after the play when Martin grabbed McMahon and slammed
him down on hi already injured shoulder. Boy those Packer/Bear
games can get vicious!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
= Pat M. Cameron = Leinenkugel's - Best beer in America.=
= email: cam...@no2sun.cray.com = Made in Chippewa Falls, WI =
= p...@mermaid.micro.umn.edu = =
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
= "Make use of the hemp seed. Sow it everywhere." -- George Washington =
= =
= "And God said, 'Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed =
= which is upon the face of all the earth, so you shall have them.' " =
= -- Genesis 1:29 =
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Da Man
>In article <bryan.27...@cvm.msu.edu> br...@cvm.msu.edu (Scott Bryan) writes:
>>In article <1993Sep3.1...@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Dr. Norman J. LaFave <laf...@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:
>>>From: Dr. Norman J. LaFave <laf...@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov>
>>>Subject: Re: Most *VICIOUS* Hit Ever
>>>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1993 15:07:03 GMT
>>
>>>In article <rlcar...@animato.network23.com> Rich Carreiro,
>>>rlc...@animato.network23.com writes:
>>>> Asshole Jack Tatum of the Raiders leading in elbow first into Patriots'
>>>WR
>>>> Darryl Stingley's neck...in a friggin' EXHIBITION GAME...and paralyzing
>>>him
>>>> for life.
>>
>[stuff deleted]
>How about Charles Martin on Jim Mcmahon? Anyone remember this. It was
>several seconds after the play when Martin grabbed McMahon and slammed
>him down on hi already injured shoulder. Boy those Packer/Bear
>games can get vicious!
yeh an ain't it GREAT!
Scott Bryan
>From: gil@texas (B. Gil)
>Subject: Re: Tatum's no criminal
>Date: Tue, 7 Sep 93 18:54:00 GMT
Scott Bryan
dirty>player. He *was* considered a hard hitter, which is completely
different.>Now the other Raider safety, George Atkinson?, *was* a dirty player.
First, sorry about the first post -- new newsreader and all.....
Anyway, according to Tatum, he WAS considered dirty, especially by several of
the Steelers. In fact, after one game, a few of the players (I think it was
Lynn Swann and Rocky Blier) wrote a letter to Pete Rozelle to voice their
opinions that Tatum should be banned from football forever. I think that the
letter was endorsed by Chuck Noll as well. This was after the same game that
a Steeler lineman speared Tatum well after a play and well behind the refs --
no penalty was called. Jack was especially angry about the no-call, because
he was penalized 15 yards for slapping Terry Bradshaw on the helmet after
Bradshaw slid down BUT HAD NOT YET BEEN TOUCHED BY A DEFENSIVE PLAYER (and
therefore not yet down). Hmph, and I used to respect the Steelers of those
days.....
Scott
Disclaimer: All above is paraphrased from Tatum's book "They Call Me
Assassin." I have heard that he wrote another: "They Still Call Me Assassin"
but have never seen it. Anyone else?
Re: George Atkinson -- I don't know very much about him, but I think you are
correct in saying that he was dirty -- at least much more so than Tatum. Jack
claims that he would often get penalized just for playing in the same
backfield. Maybe a bit of a stretch, but I guess you do have to pay for
reputation.
Brian Field
: Re: George Atkinson -- I don't know very much about him, but I think you are
: correct in saying that he was dirty -- at least much more so than Tatum. Jack
: claims that he would often get penalized just for playing in the same
: backfield. Maybe a bit of a stretch, but I guess you do have to pay for
: reputation.
Wasn't George Atkinson they guy who use to apply inordinate amounts of a
stick-um like substance to his hand and arms (down to his elbows)?
Brian
Richard Webb
No. You are off by approximately a decade. Atkinson retired in the early-to-
mid 70's. Lester Hayes was the talented linebacker-turned-cornerback known
for his interceptions, excellent coverage, stick-um usage, and (after much
speach therapy to get rid of his stutter) his gift for hyperbole. Lester retired
in the late 80's.
Richard Webb