Leaf
Robin MacCartee
Does anyone else think that taking Manning first was the worst pick
ever. I see Geno terreta over again. Why would you take Manning when
leaf is clearly the best college quarteback since Bledsoe...and what a
coincidence that they are coming out of the same school. Washington
States offence is perfect for the pro system. I think Leaf will be able
to come into the Pros and start making an impact his first year.
Although I think the AFC west is the most competitive division in all of
the NFL I think the Chargers will start making some serious noise within
two years all due to Leaf...and for Manning, I think he will be
overwhelmed by the difference between college and the pros. Tennessee
is a good school if you play ladies basketball, but I can't name one
good quarterback to ever come out of that system. I think Leaf coming
from Washington State system and the Pac Ten competitiveness will have a
much easier time adjusting and becoming an allstar. What do you
think....Robin
Ed Freeberg
Robin MacCartee wrote:
I think we should wait and see
EP_OPER
Robin MacCartee wrote:
>
> Does anyone else think that taking Manning first was the worst pick
> ever.
Leaf has the potential to be good or even great. I hope that San Diego
surrounds him with some good pass blocking so that he can have a long
and productive career.
Manning I think is going into a terrible situation. They (the Colts)
had a potentialy great quarterback in Harbaugh but he was battered so
badly they may have prematurly ended his career for him.
EP
Jett Smith
Robin MacCartee wrote:
>
> Does anyone else think that taking Manning first was the worst pick
> leaf is clearly the best college quarteback since Bledsoe...and what a
> coincidence that they are coming out of the same school. Washington
> States offence is perfect for the pro system. I think Leaf will be able
> to come into the Pros and start making an impact his first year.
I can't call selecting Manning a bad pick. Consensus of draft experts
was that Manning was the top QB with Leaf a close 2nd. Saying that
Leaf is clearly better is your personal opinion, but not an opinion
I've seen shared by anybody else. (Some do like Leaf more, but
there's no "clearly better" in their opinion).
I would be surprised to see either Manning or Leaf make an impact the
first year. Their both young QBs whom I expect to struggle to learn
the ropes.
As to who is better, you'll have to wait 4 or 5 years. Perhaps the
best QB in this draft turns out to be neither one.
> Although I think the AFC west is the most competitive division in all of
> the NFL I think the Chargers will start making some serious noise within
> two years all due to Leaf...and for Manning, I think he will be
> overwhelmed by the difference between college and the pros. Tennessee
> is a good school if you play ladies basketball, but I can't name one
> good quarterback to ever come out of that system. I think Leaf coming
> from Washington State system and the Pac Ten competitiveness will have a
> much easier time adjusting and becoming an allstar. What do you
> think....Robin
Draft picks are seldom sure things, so I couldn't criticize the Colts no
matter which QB they took. If I had to pick, I'd take Manning based
on him having better instincts at this point. But, only time will tell
if either is the next Elway or the next Shuler, or something in between.
Jett Smith
James Gibson
Robin MacCartee wrote:
>
> Does anyone else think that taking Manning first was the worst pick
> ever. I see Geno terreta over again.
Gino Torretta? Most people and scouts already knew
Torretta wouldn't be a quality NFL player. That's why he
was a 7th round pick. Those same people like Manning. Doesn't
mean Manning will pan out, but I think Torretta is a poor
analogy. If you are looking for a first round QB flop, Heath
Shuler might be a better comparison.
--
James Gibson -- Chem Dep't., Penn State -- jgi...@psu.edu
Visit my National Football League Analysis Page at:
http://www.personal.psu.edu/jxg22/sports/football/main.html
Job E. King
As far as who will be better between Manning and Leaf ... time will
tell. Ultimately it does not matter because great teams win Super
Bowls, not great quarterbacks. Check out Brian Griese's career passing
numbers and compare them to Dan Marino's. And give me a break with this
"pro style college offense" thing. How come a good pro quarterback is
just as likely ... probably more likely to come from Grambling or Notre
Dame as FSU or BYU? It's all about work ethic and arm strength.
Robin MacCartee wrote:
>
> Does anyone else think that taking Manning first was the worst pick
> ever. I see Geno terreta over again. Why would you take Manning when
> leaf is clearly the best college quarteback since Bledsoe...and what a
> coincidence that they are coming out of the same school. Washington
> States offence is perfect for the pro system. I think Leaf will be able
> to come into the Pros and start making an impact his first year.
ph...@hotmail.com
In article <35551...@concentric.net>,
js...@concentric.net wrote:
>
> Robin MacCartee wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone else think that taking Manning first was the worst pick
> > ever. I see Geno terreta over again. Why would you take Manning when
> > leaf is clearly the best college quarteback since Bledsoe...and what a
> > coincidence that they are coming out of the same school. Washington
> > States offence is perfect for the pro system. I think Leaf will be able
> > to come into the Pros and start making an impact his first year.
>
> was that Manning was the top QB with Leaf a close 2nd. Saying that
Agreed. Manning + Colts and Leaf + Chargers was the best possible fit for
both teams, IMHO. Of course, even if the Colts took Leaf, the Chargers would
have taken Manning instead of trading down in the draft or something else.
> I would be surprised to see either Manning or Leaf make an impact the
> first year. Their both young QBs whom I expect to struggle to learn
> the ropes.
Manning might make more of an impact since he was immediately awarded the
starting job by the Colts - as soon as he arrived in Indianapolis he was
clearly told that he would be the starter. The Chargers' situation is
different - they have not settled on who will be their starter in 1998.
Currently, young veteran QB Craig Whelihan is listed #1 on their QB depth
chart and has been getting most of the work with the first team offense.
> As to who is better, you'll have to wait 4 or 5 years. Perhaps the
> best QB in this draft turns out to be neither one.
"Who is better" is nearly impossible to evaluate. Sure one could look at
stats, but how each QB will fare in the NFL is equally dependent on his
coaches and supporting cast. Look at how Steve Young is considered "better"
than Dan Marino.
> > Although I think the AFC west is the most competitive division in all of
> > the NFL I think the Chargers will start making some serious noise within
> > two years all due to Leaf...and for Manning, I think he will be
Provided the Chargers get a real defensive line. They have the worst
defensive line in the AFC West. The DLs of the Broncos, Chiefs, Raiders and
Seahawks are all loaded with superior talent.
> > overwhelmed by the difference between college and the pros. Tennessee
One common anecdote about Manning that you can give him a playbook and he will
learn it in an incredibly short amount of time. The draft "experts" at ESPN,
CNN/SI, etc. evaluated Manning to be more mature and "ready to start" right
now than Leaf.
> > good quarterback to ever come out of that system. I think Leaf coming
> > from Washington State system and the Pac Ten competitiveness will have a
Ok, I'll let you have the "the system" argument because it is similar to
Gilbride's Chuck-N... err... Run-N-Shoot offense used by the Chargers.
However, the SCC is just as tough, if not tougher than the Pac-10.
> Draft picks are seldom sure things, so I couldn't criticize the Colts no
> matter which QB they took. If I had to pick, I'd take Manning based
> on him having better instincts at this point. But, only time will tell
And I think that is also why the Colts took him. With the release of both Jim
Harbaugh and Paul Justin, they clearly wanted a rookie QB who can start ASAP.
Between Leaf and Manning, Manning was deemed to be the more ready of the two -
he has two years more playing experience at the college level and is said to
have a great "football mind" from having literally grown up surrounded by
football.
Can Leaf develop a similarly great football mind, given enough time, despite
being an insurance saleman's son? :) I don't see why not, but he's two years
behind Manning right now in experience/maturity. And unlike the Colts the
Chargers are not in a hurry to rush the development of their rookie QB.
Depending on how their 98 season goes, Leaf may or may not take over as the
starter as early as this year (e.g. the Chargers are eliminated from playoff
contention, Whelihan gets injured, etc.).
Paolo
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tndmsa
I think that Torretta was a poor choice to compare Manning to also. On the
other hand, a comparison to Vinnie Testaverde might be appropriate. As I
recall, Testaverde was the first overall pick also, went to a bad team, was
given plenty of chances, flashed some talent but never attained the status
that you would hope from a pick that high. And that's the way I predict
Mannings career will go also.
James Gibson wrote in message <355715...@psu.edu>...
>Robin MacCartee wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone else think that taking Manning first was the worst pick
>> ever. I see Geno terreta over again.
>
Nate Walker
On Sat, 30 May 1998 19:27:28 -0600, "tndmsa" <tnd...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>I think that Torretta was a poor choice to compare Manning to also. On the
>other hand, a comparison to Vinnie Testaverde might be appropriate. As I
>recall, Testaverde was the first overall pick also, went to a bad team, was
>given plenty of chances, flashed some talent but never attained the status
>that you would hope from a pick that high. And that's the way I predict
>Mannings career will go also.
As a long time Colt fan who has suffered thru the ownership of Bob
Irsay, I really hope and believe that Jim will be a much better owner
than Bob and spend some money to get some protection for both Manning
and Faulk. Last year, although the Colts were the worst team, they
didn't play like a horrible team, and got a win vs. Green Bay, as well
as losing a number of very close matches (I know a loss is a loss, but
it is more encourging for me to see them lose by 3 or 7 than to get
blown out). If the team stays healthy, I think that they will be back
in the playoffs in a couple years (ok, I'm optomistc).
bill smith
Player personnel people were posed with the question why so many great
players are not high draft picks and end up falling. The response was
they spend so much time looking at the negatives and building up fear,
that they end up missing the real point.
This is what Peyton Manning is going through. He has the physical
skills (a little slow footed and he'll need to improve his drop), he has
mental skills (film nut and coachable); the only issue with him is his
heart - does he have the fire to become a SB winner? Hard to say; he's
a young man and how he'll respond can only be figured out with time and
experience. Out of all those BYU QB's why is Jim McMahon the only one
with a ring? Because he was the only one who had the fire in the belly
to win.
In Vinny's case, Joe Paterno exposed him; he was absolutely clueless on
what to do about that 2deep zone. That is still Vinny's problem; he has
the physical skills, he just doesn't have the mental ones.
Leaf has fire in the belly, but does he have the discipline and mental
skills? Leaf at this point in his career is behind Manning, but because
of his heart, he may in the long run be a better QB. So you're trading
off potential against productivity. There is no clearcut winner in this
situation.
Job E. King
Steve Young (Mormon, descendant of Brigham Young) went to BYU. I do not
know if any college has consistently produced good NFL quarterbacks,
although several have produced quite a few bad ones. Jim McMahon did
not win a Super Bowl, the defense and Walter Payton did. Ryan Leaf had a
lot more than fire in his belly at the combine, when he was 25 pounds
overweight.
alan walworth
On Sun, 31 May 1998, bill smith wrote:
> Out of all those BYU QB's why is Jim McMahon the only one
> with a ring? Because he was the only one who had the fire in the belly
> to win.
>
Excuse me? What's that shiny thing on Steve Young's finger?
Alan Walworth
bill smith
Whoops, I stand corrected. Personal gaff. I think Young is more a
product of system than a truly great QB (he's a RB who plays QB), so I
overlooked him.
The thing about the Bears is that they had a great defense before they
won the SB. They pounded the crap out of the 49ers, but ended up losing
because they couldn't put any points on the board with Fuller et al.
They had a better chance with Payton at QB. McMahon was the key reason,
but he made a significant contribution because when he got the ball with
good field position, he got 7. There are a lot of teams that don't
capitalize on this (Danny Kannell).
As far as leaf being overweight, well, it's hard to say. As a
goaltender, I was lousy in practice, but on game day, you knew that I
was there. I tend to think that Leaf didn't know what the big deal was.
The important thing is he shed the weight. Is it a warning sign? Time
will tell.