True "Grit"? (was: TEXAS COW SCHEDULE)

0 views
Skip to first unread message

Mark A. Mitchell

unread,
May 17, 1991, 9:35:38 AM5/17/91
to
jay...@orion.oac.uci.edu (R.Jayakrishnan.Civilengg) wrote:

}Aggies and UT will play anybody. Dont hold the A&M record with LSU
}against them. That is just a strange aberration ...

Really? Are all the other statistics which which indicate the
superiority of the SEC to the SWC also aberrations?

}Hey, SEC dudes.... I hate aggies, but I know their football team has
}some grit. And I *know* that is the case with other SWC teams too. If
}you have a doubt, check out last year's Texas Tech or Baylor schedule.

I'm not sure what this "grit" is - although I have tended to notice it
between Texans' teeth - but how about some more objective evaluation
of the lesser SWC teams?

The Southwest Conference was largely left out of the earlier r.s.f.college
talk about the bottom halves of leagues, probably because no one outside
of Texas remembered there was such a conference. Recent blabberings have
jogged my memory though, so let's see how the Ropers, Owls, Frogs, et. al.
stack up:

Earlier I wrote:
}If we apply Dana's litmus test to a few other leagues, it might help to
}put this in perspective. Look at the "best wins" (or ties) of the
}bottom 5 of the Big Ten, SEC, and ACC as well from last year.
}
}Big Ten (Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, Wisconsin, Northwestern):
}Indiana tied Ohio State, Minnesota beat Iowa and Iowa State. I'd rate
}this performance a tiny bit better than the Big 8's.
}
}SEC (Georgia, LSU, Kentucky, Miss. St., Vandy):
}Georgia over Alabama and Southern Miss, LSU over Texas A&M, Miss. St.
}over Southern Miss. I bit better than the Big 8 or Big Ten.
}
}ACC (Maryland, NC State, N. Carolina, Wake Forest, Duke):
}Maryland over Virginia, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia,
}UNC tied Georgia Tech, NC State over South Carolina. A bit better
}than the Big 8 or Big Ten.

Now let's add in the SWC's bottom 5 (Arkansas, Rice, SMU, TCU, Texas Tech):
Arkansas over Colorado State.

That's it. The only quality win for the supposedly "gritty" SWC bottom 5
was by the departing Hogs. I think some of the SWC fans said it best when
they opined:

dws...@helios.TAMU.EDU (David Smith) wrote:

} As for the SEC, I think
}the Hogs are about the level of lay the SEC deserves ...

jay...@orion.oac.uci.edu (R.Jayakrishnan.Civilengg) wrote:

}I agree with that bit on Hogs.

... and I have to agree too. It seems highly appropriate that the Razorbacks
should jump to the SEC, where their quality wins won't look so out of place
should they finish in the bottom half of the league.

}The bottom 5 of (1) the Big 8 had one win over a team with a winning record,
}(2) the Big Ten had a win and a tie versus 2 bowl teams (with winning
}records), (3) the SEC had 4 wins over bowl teams (with winning records),
}3 of them outside the conference, and (4) the ACC had 3 wins and a tie
}against teams with winning records, 2 of them bowl teams and 2 from
}outside the conference.

... and (5) the SWC had one win over a team with a winning record, putting
them right down there at the bottom where they belong.

There was also another test which we applied to the major conferences
of Division I-A, and that was the record versus non-conference opponents
with 7 or more wins.

SWC: Texas: 2-2, Remaining 8: 3-5 Total: 5-7 (41.7%)
Big 8: Colorado: 3-1-1, Remaining 7: 0-7 Total: 3-8-1 (29.2%)
Big Ten: Michigan: 1-1, Remaining 9: 2-13 Total: 3-14 (17.6%)
WAC: BYU: 1-2, Remaining 8: 3-8 Total: 4-10 (28.6%)
PAC-10: Washington: 3-1, Remaining 9: 7-11 Total: 10-12 (45.4%)
SEC: Florida: 0-1, Remaining 9: 8-9-1 Total: 8-10-1 (44.7%)
ACC: Georgia Tech: 1-0, Remaining 7: 2-3-1 Total: 3-3-1 (50.0%)

The bottom 8 of the SWC didn't fare too badly, going 3-5, but note that
all 3 wins were against WAC teams.

In terms of teams with a better than .500 record versus non-conference
7-win teams, the ACC had 3, the SEC had 4, the PAC-10 had 2, the
SWC and Big 8 each had only 1, and the WAC and Big Ten each had none.

--
"Instructions: | Mark A. Mitchell Georgia Tech
Light fuse, get away." | mmit...@msd.gatech.edu

Gary Wayne Batman Smith

unread,
May 17, 1991, 1:28:46 PM5/17/91
to
In article <29...@hydra.gatech.EDU> mmit...@msd.gatech.edu (Mark A. Mitchell) writes:

[lots of stuff about SWC]

I agree. The SWC is loaded down with too many church/private schools
with relatively low athletic budgets. But they all have history and
I personally would like to keep the SWC together indefinately.
I would sorely miss the Aggie-Baylor series. The battle of the Brazos.
Ever wonder why the UTexas tower looks like an owl. It was designed by
a Rice graduate. If you ever get a chance, go see the Rice band.
The SMU-TCU series is a big game in the D-FW metroplex.
When I was growing up, I went to several SMU-Baylor games. All the
Methodists against the Baptists. It was great.
There's tradition in the SWC and perhaps I'm being sentimental,
but I hope it never ends.

>dws...@helios.TAMU.EDU (David Smith) wrote:
>
>} As for the SEC, I think
>}the Hogs are about the level of lay the SEC deserves ...
>
>jay...@orion.oac.uci.edu (R.Jayakrishnan.Civilengg) wrote:
>
>}I agree with that bit on Hogs.
>
>... and I have to agree too. It seems highly appropriate that the Razorbacks
>should jump to the SEC, where their quality wins won't look so out of place
>should they finish in the bottom half of the league.

It seems highly appropriate that the piggies should want to jump to the
SEC. They got tired fo being treated like the ugly step-child for years.

What wasn't so logical is why the SEC would want the piggies. When I
first heard about this, I wondered why the SEC would stoop so low.
But then I remembered that they already have LSU. Seems they are
used to stooping.


- gary (gawd it smells. I wish the wind would stop blowing in from
the Southeast) smith

Mark A. Mitchell

unread,
May 17, 1991, 2:27:39 PM5/17/91
to
ga...@cs.tamu.edu (Gary Wayne "Batman" Smith) wrote:
}
}It seems highly appropriate that the piggies should want to jump to the
}SEC. They got tired fo being treated like the ugly step-child for years.

Actually what Arkansas got tired of was carrying the rest of the SWC
on their backs. In the '89-'90 school year, when the Hogs went to
the Cotton Bowl and the Final Four (combined payout ~= $4.5 million)
they took home less than $800,000. The *average* SEC payout for the same
time period was something like $1.6 million.

}What wasn't so logical is why the SEC would want the piggies. When I
}first heard about this, I wondered why the SEC would stoop so low.

Obviously some SWC fans are still bitter about being abandoned.

Dana A. Bunner

unread,
May 17, 1991, 5:59:22 PM5/17/91
to
In article <29...@hydra.gatech.EDU>, mmit...@msd.gatech.edu (Mark A. Mitchell) writes...

>jay...@orion.oac.uci.edu (R.Jayakrishnan.Civilengg) wrote:
>
>Earlier I wrote:
>}If we apply Dana's litmus test to a few other leagues, it might help to
>}put this in perspective.

Hey, an old message revived! Gee thanks, Mark.

>Now let's add in the SWC's bottom 5 (Arkansas, Rice, SMU, TCU, Texas Tech):
>Arkansas over Colorado State.

Good point. That is a rather unimpressive list of teams. However even TCU
beat two Big Eight teams and Rice beat Arkansas in Little Rock. As I look
over the schedules and scores, I would rank this list as better than the
bottom five of the B8 (SMU excepted...even in the B8 they wouldn't have
won any conference games...however they did beat an SEC team :-) ).

>.... and I have to agree too. It seems highly appropriate that the Razorbacks


>should jump to the SEC, where their quality wins won't look so out of place
>should they finish in the bottom half of the league.

Good flame!

>The bottom 8 of the SWC didn't fare too badly, going 3-5, but note that
>all 3 wins were against WAC teams.

Give the SWC credit for knowing how to schedule non-conference teams that
don't look like bad opponents (even if they are). The Big Eight could
learn something here.

>In terms of teams with a better than .500 record versus non-conference
>7-win teams, the ACC had 3, the SEC had 4, the PAC-10 had 2, the
>SWC and Big 8 each had only 1, and the WAC and Big Ten each had none.

This is interesting, although the sample size is quite bad. For
example BYU went 1-1 but beat Miami (Fl) while Auburn goes 1-0 with 2 point
win over Louisanna Tech. Thus SEC gets one marker and WAC doesn't. I don't
think I want to count this unless they played at least 2 games. The
conference totals or larger groups (like our top 5 or bottom 5 rankings)
are better indicators.

Despite statements to the contrary, I think the loss of Arkansas hurts the
SWC. This has been a quality team across the years and moves SEC media
coverage further into B8 territory. I'm sure there were SEC football coaches
who would have rather seen Tulane added to the conference. With Arkansas
coming in and Sherrill taking over Miss St, there aren't many breathers
on the schedule.

Dana B.

Mark A. Mitchell

unread,
May 18, 1991, 1:20:25 PM5/18/91
to
bun...@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Dana A. Bunner) wrote:

}
}mmit...@msd.gatech.edu (Mark Mitchell) wrote:
}>In terms of teams with a better than .500 record versus non-conference
}>7-win teams, the ACC had 3, the SEC had 4, the PAC-10 had 2, the
}>SWC and Big 8 each had only 1, and the WAC and Big Ten each had none.
}
}This is interesting, although the sample size is quite bad. For
}example BYU went 1-1 but beat Miami (Fl) while Auburn goes 1-0 with 2 point
}win over Louisanna Tech. ...

Actually, Dana, Auburn went 2-1 (beat Florida State & Louisiana Tech, lost
to Southern Miss) and BYU went 1-2 (beat Miami, lost to Oregon and Texas A&M).
There are examples of small sample spaces skewing things though, like
Georgia Tech being 1-0.

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages