Those Greedy Billionaires
shiite
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_gates_buffett_pledge
Jim Brown
> Put a stop to this crap now.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_gates_buffett_pledge
Suppose that makes 'em feel better for all the people they've stepped
on over the years to get where they are?
DanS.
5/8/2011 in writing
> Put a stop to this crap now.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_gates_buffett_pledge
They've been talking about giving away half their money for two years
now. I'm beginning to think this is some sort of a publicity stunt.
Hmmm.
Eric Kemp
It was just business.
Tom Enright
Indeed if we were all poor, we'd all be better off.
-Tom Enright
J.C. Watts Enslin
Actually, many of them have done something, and pledged to do more.
But it is difficult to do. I know the Morgridges, who they mention in
this article, really wanted to make a difference with their giving in
Wisconsin, but didn't really know how to put something together that
was going to be a good use of their resources.
An honest question...if one of these guys set up a $1billion
foundation, what would you do? It's not as easy as it seems.
CheeseHusker dos
Experimental, self-funded charter schools. Go into some of the worst
districts in America, hire some kickass teachers and let them be as
creative as possible. Have mandatory parental involvement and no
tuition. Set on spin and watch the results.
Tom Enright
Amen. That exactly what I would do. Go into Detroit and make it
happen.
-Tom Enright
CheeseHusker dos
Detroit, Milwaukee, rural Pennsyltucky, Oakland, El Paso, Nawlins,
Miami - that'd cover the bases pretty well. The possibilities are
endless.
DanS.
Parents that give-a-care that would opt to send their kids there are
likely the ones already fairly involved in their kids' education in the
public schools.
So, you strip the public schools of the skeleton crew of serious
students and send them somewhere else, thus diminishing the ability of
the schools to educate those probably in the most need, diminishing
their education, and further hollowing out an already vaccuous sector.
NICE!
Tom Enright
> Parents that give-a-care that would opt to send their kids there are
> likely the ones already fairly involved in their kids' education in the
> public schools.
>
> So, you strip the public schools of the skeleton crew of serious
> students and send them somewhere else, thus diminishing the ability of
> the schools to educate those probably in the most need, diminishing
> their education, and further hollowing out an already vaccuous sector.
>
> NICE!
So reducing the number of students, which of course results in more
money being available to the public schools, is a bad thing? But
that's cool, it ain't your kids. Fuck 'em.
-Tom Enright
TimV
Even if that is true, there is no justification for screwing over the
kids and parents that care by forcing them to be in school with a
majority that don't.
T
Jim Brown
I'm not saying anything of the sort. But if you think many of those 69
Billionaires didnt bulldoze gobs of people to get there, you are being
a bit naive.
shiite
Cite some examples. By your theory, there should be many.
Jim Brown
Bill Gates for starters. How about the Waltons?
J.C. Watts Enslin
So after ten years, what do you do then???
I think this is the dilemma that a lot of philanthropists face. What
then? You have zeroed a lot of your resources on a small population
segment...but are you going to support them forever? How do they
become self-supporting? How do you duplicate this effort elsewhere?
A perpetual, $1billion foundation means you generate about $50million
per year. That isn't going to support that many schools.
Bobs yer uncle
Yes.
Poority embiggens all men.
tom_sa...@yahoo.com
The Minnesota v. Microsoft case defense had many examples of emails
from MS executives where they blacklisted business partners, modified
code the day before release, entered agreements and to gain trust only
to steal Intellectual Property to use against those companies, etc.
You obviously haven't kept up.
Dennis J
out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's scrambled
his molecules...
I think you're missing the point. you have a population that is
performing at X you remove the better performing portion of the
population and you still expect performance to be at X or better? when
well over half of the population under perform?
should we just grade that on a curve as well? it's doing wonders at
the collegiate level with performance in the real world...
--
"It’s been so difficult to get out of this recession because of the disequilibrium in the real economy.”" -- Paul Volcker
"Education is the progressive discovery of our own Ignorance" Will Durant
"One can't have a sense of perspective without a sense of Humor" -- Wayne Thiboux
"the Glass is not only half full, it has been delicious so far!!" -- ME
To reply, SCRAPE off the end bits.
mianderson
Im all for charter schools, but how would this 'mandatory parental
involvement' work? Parents wouldn't be all that involved(using crack
cocaine tends to produce that result), and then what
happens?......kick the kids out? well then your enrollment
plummets.......
I think in some of these *really bad* districts(like those in
detroit), nothing will work. Where I am most interested in reforming
education is in the typical run of the mill public education districts
where the product is poor but could be a lot better.
Set on spin and watch the results.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
mianderson
very few parents in these really bad school districts care....
>
> T- Hide quoted text -
DanS.
5/9/2011 in writing
to "require" recalcitrant parents to be involved? Most of these are
stone most of the day and send their kids to school so they can sleep
and get high some more. By 5th grade, most of the kids aspire to this
lifestyle.
mianderson
yep.....these schools, imo, are *not fixable*. Putting a ton of
resources into trying to do the undoable is silly......perhaps
identify small numbers of students(10% or so?) who have some potential
and transfer them out.
Im more interested in charter schools and different educational
approaches for schools in districts that more represent the country as
a whole. Their performance is poor, and could be a lot better.
By 5th grade, most of the kids aspire to this
> lifestyle.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> T- Hide quoted text -
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> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
The Undead Edward M. Kennedy
>>> Put a stop to this crap now.
>>>
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_gates_buffett_pledge
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Suppose that makes 'em feel better for all the people they've stepped
>> on over the years to get where they are?
>
> It was just business.
Why do people take it so personally?!
--Tedward
DanS.
5/9/2011 in writing
some superintendents that have been very successful elsewhere and have
come here and failed miserably. It's become a board blaming the
superintendent, teachers blaming the board, superintendent takes the
blame. Nothing works. I'm sure it could be better. It could be much
better with parental involvement.
Thought: The students could possibly be able to grade their parents on
parental involvement. That could be normalized on some baseline
national average. Teachers and coaches could comment on each child’s
level of parental input and help. Then, the parental input could
receive a grade? Just a thought.
mianderson
whenevere I hear about a superintendent being "successful elsewhere",
thats usually very misleading. Usually they are looking at one
particular indicator that is very misleading, not particularly
applicable to real results, and was easily skewed/obtained in such a
way that really doesnt reflect actual performance.
>
> Thought: The students could possibly be able to grade their parents on
> parental involvement. That could be normalized on some baseline
> national average. Teachers and coaches could comment on each child’s
> level of parental input and help. Then, the parental input could
> receive a grade? Just a thought.
it's all silly......none of these approaches will make a bit of
difference.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Set on spin and watch the results.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
The Cheesehusker, Trade Warrior
> On May 8, 9:25 pm, CheeseHusker dos <jonrus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 8, 8:56 pm, "J.C. Watts Enslin" <jonens...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> > > On May 8, 5:03 pm, DanS. <dslaughREM...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > shiite added the following to the totality of all human wisdom on
> > > > 5/8/2011 in writing
>
> > > > > Put a stop to this crap now.
>
> > > > >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_gates_buffett_pledge
>
> > > > They've been talking about giving away half their money for two years
> > > > now. I'm beginning to think this is some sort of a publicity stunt.
> > > > Hmmm.
>
> > > Actually, many of them have done something, and pledged to do more.
> > > But it is difficult to do. I know the Morgridges, who they mention in
> > > this article, really wanted to make a difference with their giving in
> > > Wisconsin, but didn't really know how to put something together that
> > > was going to be a good use of their resources.
>
> > > An honest question...if one of these guys set up a $1billion
> > > foundation, what would you do? It's not as easy as it seems.
>
> > Experimental, self-funded charter schools. Go into some of the worst
> > districts in America, hire some kickass teachers and let them be as
> > creative as possible. Have mandatory parental involvement and no
> > tuition. Set on spin and watch the results.
>
> So after ten years, what do you do then???
Expand
> I think this is the dilemma that a lot of philanthropists face. What
> then? You have zeroed a lot of your resources on a small population
> segment...but are you going to support them forever? How do they
> become self-supporting? How do you duplicate this effort elsewhere?
>
> A perpetual, $1billion foundation means you generate about $50million
> per year. That isn't going to support that many schools
Not - but that's okay - the gains from that investment will be worthy.
Jaybyrd
> Put a stop to this crap now.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_gates_buffett_pledge
When I think of those guys getting together to talk about giving,
this scene comes to mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs
Gates and Buffet are doing a good thing by trying to put pressure on
other very rich people for more philanthropy. Gates even called out
Ted Turner in the media on it.
Jaybyrd
Many things where I live are named after Andrew Carnegie who was a
great philanthropist. I can see that he would want to be remembered
that way.
Goro
why would this have to be a Charter School, then? If self-funded,
then it could/should be a Private School?
-goro-
Goro
I'm thinking that it would give a better indication of the actual
performance of the school as a whole. If the school is hitting
requirements mostly by the effort of high performing outliers, it
shouldn't really be considered adequate, imho.
If removing high performers makes a more homogeneous student body
population, it may be easier to assess and to also address.
-goro-
Goro
I do not think that the high performing students have much of an
impact on the other students. I'd think more the other way in that
the large number of uninterested students would cause problems in the
classroom and inhibit learning by those that wish to.
-goro-
Jaybyrd
We should probably just kill all the kids that have bad parents.
The Undead Edward M. Kennedy
<We should probably just kill all the kids that have bad parents.
Enslave them and work them to death.
My solution for the immigration problem is to send them back
to Mexico via giant catapults.
--Tedward
Jaybyrd
> "Jaybyrd" <jaybyrdb...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> <We should probably just kill all the kids that have bad parents.
>
> Enslave them and work them to death.
>
> My solution for the immigration problem is to send them back
> to Mexico via giant catapults.
>
TMML. this reminded me of monty python and holy grail.
The Undead Edward M. Kennedy
> <We should probably just kill all the kids that have bad parents.
>
> Enslave them and work them to death.
>
> My solution for the immigration problem is to send them back
> to Mexico via giant catapults.
<
<TMML. this reminded me of monty python and holy grail.
It's a lot greener than those stinky buses, and it will cut down
on the need for fertilizer.
--Tedward
Tom Enright
Bad parents are about as easy to get rid of as bad teachers.
-Tom Enright
Jaybyrd
That's why I advocate charter schools with no unions. The other part
of this is that the states need to open up their requirements for who
can teach to work at those charters.
The Undead Edward M. Kennedy
Yet another reason for not having seatbelt and helmet laws.
--Tedward
Dennis J
then you'd have renormalize the "standards". making 4th graders read
at what was a sixth grade level say 10-15 years ago, and call that the
current standard does more harm than good.
Dennis J
crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's
scrambled his molecules...
>mianderson added the following to the totality of all human wisdom on
My kids go to a failing school, we're required to sign an involvement
contract to stay there. Of Course my wife is the President of the PTA,
so involvement isn't something we personally need to change...
Dennis J
crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain? Maybe it's
scrambled his molecules...
>On May 8, 5:32 pm, shiite <uncdoo...@gmail.com> wrote:
TEd learned from Jane Fonda, that all ya gotta do is publicly ask
others to give so you don't have to.
The Undead Edward M. Kennedy
>>> Put a stop to this crap now.
>>>
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110507/ap_on_re_us/us_gates_buffett_pledge
>>
>>When I think of those guys getting together to talk about giving,
>>this scene comes to mind:
>>
>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKKHSAE1gIs
>>
>>
>>Gates and Buffet are doing a good thing by trying to put pressure on
>>other very rich people for more philanthropy. Gates even called out
>>Ted Turner in the media on it.
>
> TEd learned from Jane Fonda, that all ya gotta do is publicly ask
> others to give so you don't have to.
Ted just bought another 1,500 acre ranch in Wyoming.
--Tedward
Dennis J
matter, for crying out loud. Who knows what's happened to his brain?
Maybe it's scrambled his molecules...
>"Dennis J" <drju...@verizon.netSCRAPE.COM> wrote
lots of room for him to Go Screw himself like the GOP keep telling
him to do..
Goro
> hey, Goro <evilnin...@gmail.com>'s been through solid matter, for
I don't think you have to renormalize the standards as your GOALS.
You would have to re-state what your current performance is and that
is likely highly undesirable as it would be lower, but more
representative of how the student body is performing as a whole. But
really, the goal should be to keep thestandards as they are (or at
whatever is deemed ideal) and then attempt to get all the kids to that
level.
Heck, I'd even go as far to say that if the measures allow for high
performing outliers to make a significant difference in the
performance metrics that the metrics are poor; they should be more
median-centric rather than mean-centric (for example).
-goro-
Dennis J
and this one of the failings of NCLB, it requires improvement in
scores across the grade levels, almost set up to make Public Schools
fail and force everyone into Charter Schools
addre...@invalid.invalid
So you want to sentence the kids with potential to crappy schools in the
vague hope it will somehow inspire the gang bangers?
NICE!
--
GS Rider
Tom Enright
Having 1000 kids poorly educated is what is known as "fair."
Having 500 kids properly educated while 500 are poorly educated is
"unfair."
Better we let them ALL starve.
-Tom Enright
> --
> GS Rider
Jaybyrd
why not close ALL of the public schools and create charters that will
be tailored for the local needs?
Jaybyrd
Why not just close down all of the "bad" schools and give ALL the kids
vouchers to go wherever they want in the suburbs? The suburban
schools are paid for from tax money too.
Will your vouchers cover additional expenses that the poor kids don't
have money for at their new schools?
Tom Enright
Works for me. This is what I've been saying all along.
> Will your vouchers cover additional expenses that the poor kids don't
> have money for at their new schools?
It will be up to the parents/student to decide where to go.
-Tom Enright
Jaybyrd
being from Detroit you realize that the largest troubled school
district is the inner city schools. This means that those will all be
torn down and the "good" suburban schools will have to expand (large
capital investment from taxes). Also you will have to buy lots of
buses and hire bus drivers to bring the city kids out to the suburbs
now into these new buildings along side the suburban kids. Still ok
with the plan?
> > Will your vouchers cover additional expenses that the poor kids don't
> > have money for at their new schools?
>
> It will be up to the parents/student to decide where to go.
>
see above.
Goro
I'm in the middle of reading Death and Life of the Great American
School System. It's far from a great book and the writing varies
between fine and mediocre and at times feels more like a high school
term paper than a professional book and it frustratingly stops its
discourses at points where questions and concerns get the most
interesting and potentially the most insightful. However, it does lay
out many examples of reform attempts in the various US school systems
across the nation in the past 2 decades.
I mention this b/c a central component to the book is the NCLB.
Charter schools and their effects are also highly represented.
An interesting (and depressing) read,.
What is striking is that every solution seems to be a "One Size fits
all" solution. That is to say, implicit in every reform attempt is
that there is AN ANSWER, a single perfect way to set everything up so
that every single student will prosper.
The other thing that is difficult is that there is a presumption of a
"magic metric" of learning. Even while the author points out problems
with standardized testing, she uses Standardized Test Results to
indicate success/failure rates at schools.
-goro-
Dennis J
I think I might just be picking that up sometime soon.
Goro
Hey Dennis, are you a teacher ?
-goro-
Dennis J
I'm thinking about teaching at a two year college... my kids are still
in school though.
Goro
Ok. You sound like someone who is either in the profession or close
to someone in the profession. I personally was a teacher for 7 years;
I am now a computer programmer and want to get back into the teaching
profession but can't afford the pay cut (60-70%).
Still, it was the most satisfying and gratifying time of my life and I
figure I'll find a way to go back to it sometime.
-goro-
Dennis J
I was studying to be a High School teacher in College, then the money
ran out, so I had to finish my degree early. I did some Subbing for a
while, but that didn't really pay the bills.
The Undead Edward M. Kennedy
<Ok. You sound like someone who is either in the profession or close
<to someone in the profession. I personally was a teacher for 7 years;
<I am now a computer programmer and want to get back into the teaching
<profession but can't afford the pay cut (60-70%).
You can do it part time in your spare time, either as a volunteer
or for some spare change. Don't ever give up on what you *want*
to do.
--Tedward