Oregon ban on diesel fuel

[jimbr...@yahoo.com]

https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB3305/Introduced

[Tim VanWagoner]

On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 7:15:39 AM UTC-6, jimbr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB3305/Introduced

Anybody can produce a bad bill. Passing it is something else.

[jimbr...@yahoo.com]

So we can't discuss it until it passes?

[Ken Olson]

It has to be passed so we can find out what's in it.

--
ÄLSKAR - Fänga Dagen

[xyzzy]

On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 8:15:39 AM UTC-5, jimbr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB3305/Introduced

From my shallow reading of this bill, it doesn't ban biodiesel or petroleum diesel used off-road in agriculture, generators, etc.

It just bans selling petroleum diesel for on-road use. A bunch of countries and cities in Europe and parts of China are also enacting similar restrictions.

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

Just?

--
People who want to share their religious views with you
almost never want you to share yours with them. -- Dave Barry

[xyzzy]

On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:07:02 AM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> On 2021-03-05, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 8:15:39 AM UTC-5, jimbr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB3305/Introduced
> >
> > From my shallow reading of this bill, it doesn't ban biodiesel or petroleum diesel used off-road in agriculture, generators, etc.
> >
> > It just bans selling petroleum diesel for on-road use. A bunch of countries and cities in Europe and parts of China are also enacting similar restrictions.
> Just?

just, only, simply, ... substitute whatever limiting helper word you prefer. Clarifying the header which implied all diesel fuel banned by the proposed bill.

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

On 2021-03-05, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:07:02 AM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
>> On 2021-03-05, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 8:15:39 AM UTC-5, jimbr...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB3305/Introduced
>> >
>> > From my shallow reading of this bill, it doesn't ban biodiesel or petroleum diesel used off-road in agriculture, generators, etc.
>> >
>> > It just bans selling petroleum diesel for on-road use. A bunch of countries and cities in Europe and parts of China are also enacting similar restrictions.
>> Just?
>
> just, only, simply, ... substitute whatever limiting helper word you prefer. Clarifying the header which implied all diesel fuel banned by the proposed bill.
>

My point is that the measure means the many diesel cars are essentially
banned in Oregon by this bill. That isn't simply, just, or even only.

--
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently equipped fool. -- unknown

[xyzzy]

On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:17:12 AM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> On 2021-03-05, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 9:07:02 AM UTC-5, Con Reeder, unhyphenated American wrote:
> >> On 2021-03-05, xyzzy <xyzzy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 8:15:39 AM UTC-5, jimbr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >> https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Downloads/MeasureDocument/HB3305/Introduced
> >> >
> >> > From my shallow reading of this bill, it doesn't ban biodiesel or petroleum diesel used off-road in agriculture, generators, etc.
> >> >
> >> > It just bans selling petroleum diesel for on-road use. A bunch of countries and cities in Europe and parts of China are also enacting similar restrictions.
> >> Just?
> >
> > just, only, simply, ... substitute whatever limiting helper word you prefer. Clarifying the header which implied all diesel fuel banned by the proposed bill.
> >
> My point is that the measure means the many diesel cars are essentially
> banned in Oregon by this bill. That isn't simply, just, or even only.

Yup, I'm sure that's their ultimate goal. I wouldn't be concerned with cars so much as trucks, especially long-haul interstate trucks. It bans selling the fuel but not driving with it so if this bill passes (don't know how likely that is) I can see massive truck plazas just outside the Oregon border being very lucrative.

Diesel is very dirty. For years it got a pass and then when we all learned it was getting a pass because diesel car makers were cheating on emissions tests, the backlash was (and still is) intense.

[jimbr...@yahoo.com]

Do you realize how huge that is? How would ag get their produce to market? How would all the other 10,000 or 100,000 trucks in Oregon deliver their goods? This is in a few years, how about all those diesel vehicles currently being sold? Obsolete in a half decade. There is ZERO way bio diesel can keep up with 100 percent of diesel use, even regionally, though that was the first thing I thought of.


Tim's right...this is a bad bill and likely won't pass....five years ago. Today? Hell, you are even defending it LOL

[xyzzy]

I'm not defending or advocating for it. I'm clarifying what's in it and discussing the implications. You jumped to a conclusion from that.

[jimbr...@yahoo.com]

Arguing points that support the idea is defending in my book.

[xyzzy]

Clearly I misunderstood your post "So we can't discuss it until it passes?" I thought that meant you wanted to discuss it and I found it an interesting discussion topic. Discussing it is just that, it's not defending it or advocating one way or another unless you consider anything that isn't THAT SUCKS style affirmation of your viewpoint as advocating for it.

[Tim VanWagoner]

Their ban on sale of pre-2010 diesel vehicles made sense as they were the dumping ground for trucks banned in Cali and Washington. But this is stupid. They already require someone to pump gas for you in half the state. Just ban retail sales of diesel for older vehicles and draconian penalties for anyone who bypasses emission controls on a diesel. Regardless, an outright ban is just dumb. If I’ve got a diesel, I just put in a piggyback tank and drive across the border and fill up. I can’t see it easily passing both houses and a governor’s sig. there will be massive pushback from special interests and the immense economic considerations here.

I see more likely that the ban new registrations of diesel and gas vehicles in the next decade. Still equally dumb, but almost certain to happen.

[xyzzy]

You also have to think of all the long haul tractor trailers delivering to and from Oregon (not even to mention within the state). Maybe if they tank up the border that would be enough to cover their entire run in the state (I have no idea what the range of a tractor trailer with full tanks is), but it could disrupt a lot of logistics that people take for granted.

[xyzzy]

I googled it and looks like a fully fueled tractor trailer has a range of
at least 1000 miles, many of them more.

Typical fuel capacity: 200 gallons (2 100 gallon saddle tanks)

Typical mpg: 6-7

--
“I usually skip over your posts because of your disguistng, contrarian,
liberal personality.” — Altie

[Anonymous]

I e never thought about it, but where do trains refuel?

[xyzzy]

I assume the railroads have their own fueling infrastructure? Betcha railfans Damon or Cheesehusker know the answer.

[JGibson]

Man, that's not actually an easy thing to find. Here's a company that apparently runs trucks straight to the trains:

https://4refuel.com/us/industry/rail/

[Anonymous]

They have to, but I’ve never seen an engine refuse nor a tank.

[Anonymous]

A combination of both. You can get refueled by truck or at one of the
yards.

https://www.cnet.com/news/rolling-through-the-worlds-largest-rail-yard/

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

Bottom line is this bill is insane and will undoubtedly die a death.
I suppose it will be anointed with all sorts of leftist virtue signaling,
but it will nonetheless be dead.

--
The U.S. Senate -- white male millionaires working for YOU! -- Dave Barry

[jimbr...@yahoo.com]

I wouldn't bet my nuts on it...it IS Oregon.

[jimbr...@yahoo.com]

Of COURSE I meant you can only agree with me. Isn't that the new leftist way? It sure is on FB.

For the record, using words like "just" and comparisons of other places doing the same ridiculous thing is decidedly defending it in my book. Maybe I'm just too used to you and tend to read between your lines a bit?

[Con Reeder, unhyphenated American]

Even Oregon has to have grocery stores.

--
"I find that a great part of the information I have was acquired
by looking up something and finding something else on the way."
-- Franklin Pierce Adams

[The Henchman]

Parts of Canada and Mexico are doing this too. Reading this Oregon bill,
the dates look reasonable. Good on parts of USA for trying to improve
their air quality. It's not easy, but lets hope they have the fortitude
to keep it up. I know the majority of the USA is becoming a second tier
poverty stricken country but large countries of poverty like Egypt and
India have ban frameworks in place so it can be done and maybe the USA can
copy those nations.

What oregon will have to address is Scrappage of the older diesel
vechicles.

California and Quebec are banning all fuel burning cars by 2035. Lets
hope everyone else can come up with plans to reasonably consider this as
well.

Besides, all the big truck companies announced they are ending diesel
truck production by 2040.



--
whya...@trybuddry.com

[jimbr...@yahoo.com]

The dates look reasonable? What are people going to replace diesel power with in six short years?

Do you have any clue how many businesses big and small depend on diesel work trucks? The life expectancy of a semi tractor is around 20 years, though most keep running much longer, being relegated to smaller businesses who can't afford new for their limited uses. What about most county governments whose budgets are already paper thin? Are they going to buy all new when they are used to alternating purchases over long time periods, while using the older equipment for backup and emergencies.

This bill is short sighted, ignorant and most arrogant. The good thing is I don't see this passing, and the more of this ridiculousness that is forced upon Americans, and the more it affects their pocketbooks and the economy, the more I see them voting the radicals that propose such glop out of office.

[Plaidmoon]

I don't know what the news media has done on this subject in Eric's part of Oregon, but over here, the coverage has been nearly nonexistent. I've seen one or two short stories about it. I doubt it will pass. If it does, I expect court cases and ballot referendums.

There are quite a few diesel pickup trucks around here (3 or 4 on my block) and I think we'll have massive protests if the bill passes as is. If you want to radicalize people more over here in red country, that's one way to do it. It doesn't affect me directly, but it does make me think they will come after my studded tires next.

The local tribal reservation truck stop gets around the state law and allows self serve gas. Actually they have no attendants, so self serve is all they do. I wonder if they will keep on selling diesel?